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hi, everyone. it is 4:00 in new york. ever heard the saying "history does not repeat itself, but it often rhymes"? keep that in mind as we see natural disasters disrupting the natural churn of campaigns, and as we witness donald trump's response and the hurricanes that are right now putting millions of lives, american lives in danger as we come on the air. and again, the crisis where life and death decisions are being made and more decisions that require more than a partisan response, but one that requires trusted leadership. donald trump continues to act like someone who has stewed in his own lies and delusions for so long, that he is incapable of telling the truth. even when lives are on the line. last night he claimed that there was not a single emergency worker on the ground helping people impacted by hurricane

helene. >> how would you do it differently? i would have a tremendous team of people. and look, i was in north carolina and georgia yesterday. you have very good governor and doing a good job, but they have been hit hard, and they are complaining that there is no people around to help. >> so, not true. not a thing. but make no mistake, those lies that trump is telling are hurting people, actually people. they are having an impact. this is north carolina governor roy cooper responding on "morning joe." >> this swirling vortex of disinformation is beginning to affect people there on the ground. i had an officer come up to me and say, why are they saying that we are not doing anything? in fact, it is demoralizing to all of the people who are working so hard, those first responders who went into people's homes and pulled them

out of windows in swirling waters, people who are working around the clock to get oxygen bottles and insulin to people in the remote rugged areas of the mountains, the people working to get the power back on. we have gone from 1 million to 140,000 power outages, and people working to restore communications and water systems. you are also making some people weary of applying for aid and relief, because you have crazy stories of fema coming in and taking people's land and these stories of donations being stopped from coming in. >> one north carolina official told politico that the scale of the misinformation and the number of posts and the eyeballs that each of the posts are given on line, and particularly on x, that is what is different and

truly scary according to the official. this has felt like you are in the thunderdome, and people are piping the noise in and it is creating a confusion, and crisis mode when you need people to come together. and the country is right here, right where we are here today with donald trump and when the moment came, and when the time came for a moment as this official told politico, you need people to come together and work together, and we saw trump be tested and we saw him fail when he was faced with a once in a century pandemic, and he did not trust the experts and the scientists and he spread disinformation and delusions, because he thought that it would benefit him politically to do so. remember this. >> i see that disinfectant where it knocks it out in one minute,

and is there a way that we can do something like that by injection, inside or almost a cleaning -- >> i am taking it hydroxy chlorine. and a lot of doctors are taking it. >> i am meeting the dictators and kings and queens, and somehow, i don't see it for myself. >> it is a very contagious virus, and credible. but it is something that we have tremendous control over. >> and what is estimated, i might not come back at all. >> and trump would have a hard time admitting, because he does not admit that he lost in 2020, but the response to the pandemic may have very well cost him the election according to a political autopsy from his own pollster, and now four years later with four weeks to go before the election in the country, the viewers of this program, and really anyone who has followed our nation's

politics for the last few years could be forgive even if it feels like a deja vu minute, because the gaps of the information input when all of that is on the line, and all that donald trump is offering is the indifference to the outcome looks a lot like it did in the middle of the coronavirus pandemic, and in the wake of one hurricane devastating the south, and another potentially devastating hurricane barreling toward florida, and scientists and leaders are begging the people to trust the warnings and to listen to them. florida meteorologist john morales was overcome with emotion describing the dang ters posed by hurricane milton. >> it is an incredible, incredible hurricane. it has dropped -- it has dropped

50 millibars in ten hours. i apologize. this is just horrific. even though it is expected to weaken on approach, it is so incredibly strong right now, that you are going to find it very difficult for it to be nothing less than a major hurricane when it makes landfall in florida. >> he will join us on the program in a couple of minutes, but let's start with the acting director of fema, and keith, tell us what you are focused on right now, and what you want people to hear and heed. >> yes, as you heard, it is a very dangerous storm in terms of the strength and the size, and as it approaches landfall, the expectation is that the windfield is going to expand and bring a range of hazards to the entire florida peninsula, and not only in terms of the storm surge, but rains and flooding,

and some areas will flood that they have never before, because the water won't make it out to ocean because of the storm surge. the most important thing for everybody to know right now is to take preparation right now, and those in the mandatory evacuation areas where they are told to evacuate, you must evacuate. every time we go through this, there are some people who cannot evacuate, and we have a unfortunately loss of life today, and now is the time to take that action to get out of those areas, and we can rebuild and recover later, but this is the time to save lives. >> this is what the mayor gene castor had to say about the risk if people don't heed the warnings. >> i can tell you are right now that they may have done that in others, but there has not been one like this. this helene was a wake-up call, this is literally catastrophic.

i can say without any dramatization whatsoever, if you choose to stay in one of those evacuation areas, you are going to die. >> have you -- how do you contend with what feels like a lack or less trust maybe that some portions of the population have in warnings like that? how does it impact rescue and recovery efforts? >> it is obviously a significant challenge. trust is extremely important, and we need people to listen to message they are getting from the weather service, the hurricane officials as you just heard, and as we have situations that you just heard that information is provided that is not accurate, it is undermining the entire system and credibility of those who are trying to save lives are saying. i want to foot stomp what the mayor said. this is not the same as the storms they have seen in the last couple of years. the track of this storm is the

scenario that we have been watching for some time and understand that it is going to be creating flooding in areas that have never flooded before and the 15 feet of storm surge is something that you cannot survive. don't think about the last storm or the areas that have and yours may be okay. if you are in an evacuation area, you need to evacuate. >> the governor of north carolina and other officials have talked about what is always sort of advanced operational work under the most difficult circumstances for fema and the fema workforce, but just talk about what it is like when people don't necessarily welcome or trust the fema people and workforce who are there to help them. >> yeah. it is difficult. i mean, the men and women of fema are some of the most dedicated civil servants of all of government. they dedicate their life to supporting people and keeping them safe and recover on some of the worst days. they travel away from their families.

they sacrifice time from their own lives and they do it because they know what the survivors are going through is much worse than that, and they are committed and dedicated to supporting them. when you have misinformation out there and creating misconceptions or thinking that fema is going to take their land or resource, it creates hostility, and it is not productive to goal that we have, and what we we need to help people save their lives and recover and get back to life as normal as possible. >> thank you, keith, for taking the time to talk to us. >> thank you. let me bring in our correspondent vaughan hillyard and also, a political correspondent michael steele, and there is a time when you would not mix a storm with

political, and the person who made them political is donald trump, and the person who said, first he took a sharpie and changed -- >> yes, the projection. >> yes. but now he is running as president for all americans, and now he is saying and doing things that make the work of fema more difficult, and the trust of families to make a incredibly difficult decision to pack up and drive to safety. >> so when officials like me and others say that donald trump is dangerous to democracy, and dangerous to process of government, this is what we are talking about. you are putting the lives at stake, because you want it to be about you, and you want to find and gain some political advantage over your opponent in a presidential race, to demonize their efforts, and to have

surrogates stupidly not engage with the governor of florida who is now engaged with one of the worst things to hit his state, and he does not want to talk to kamala harris, because it is political. that is the governance that mile an hours have grown cynical about, and why we find ourselves in this stressful moment. so, if donald trump is telling you that there are no people on the ground, but then you look around and you see people on the ground, how are people going to be confused about that? and so the reality is that he does not make it better, but worse. he is making it more difficult to get the resources in, and for people to save their lives and the lives of the ones they love. do not listen -- i want to look straight at americans and say, do not listen to donald trump about this storm in florida or the gulf or anywhere else.

pay attention to people who are there to protect you from the department of energy or health or whatever department is involved in your community, fema, listen to officials who are actually watching the storms. know what the patterns are telling them that they need to share with you to save your life. donald trump drew on a, took a sharpie and drew on the map where he wanted the storm the go, because he had a political agenda for the region of the gulf that didn't line up with the storm pattern. what does that tell you? i am so tired of us following stupid and watching bad things the happen to good people, because they are getting the level of disinformation, and i want to begin, and you had the official there talking about a lot of to information, nicole, and vaughan, you probably see it out in your coverage, i don't know what the hell y'all are doing on x, but it is not

helping people. elon musk, you need to chill, bro, because you are getting people seriously injured by promulgating and pushing out this b.s. that the federal government is failing to serve and help these people, but you know it is not true. but you think that you are going to be running a cabinet department under donald trump, and what you are doing is costing lives. you and donald trump and elon musk, and the governor of florida, desantis, you need to stop your stupid, because when someone dies, and someone is injured, it is going to largely land on you, because you told them to do something dumb like stay in place or iging for the -- ignore the help they are getting. >> there is the transindifference of his own supporters. i have interviewed a daughter who listened to her father who

listened to him and blames his death on that. and i want to continue with that reporting bushes i want to bring in wtvj msnbc john morales in south florida who has been covering the storms there in south florida for decades. he is very busy, but he has made some time to talk to us. and what did you see in that clip that was when you talked to my colleague rachel maddow last night, and i played it, and now it has gone viral. >> i wish it hadn't, but it is just a message to get the message out to more extreme weather events that we are seeing with more frequently, and along the lines to answer the question, the bulletin, and the urgent bulletin from the national hurricane center that indicated that the hurricane had

become a category 5 hurricane was sent moments before i was punched up in boxes, and you know what that term mean, and i was not looking at the camera, but i was looking at this bulletin, and i, i see this information and doing some math in my head, and i turned to the camera, and i just started to voice the word incredible over and over again. then in a very geeky way much like the nerd that i am, i go 50 millibars in science is measuring the barometric pressure, and measuring a hurricane, the faster it falls the quicker the wind wants to accelerate, and the is the -- the stronger the hurricane becomes. so when i saw that 50, i knew

how increasing it was becoming, and also frustration, because over 50 years i have been trying to warn what was going to be coming if we did not check the greenhouse gases into the atmosphere, and well, here we are, and it is not going to get any better. >> and empathy, and angst and frustration make you my spirit animal, and i wonder with this moment, what would you, and people do still trust, and i'll use your word the geeky, nerdy science people, and what would you want people to know about this storm, and what would you like them to do? >> well, first and foremost, if you live anywhere near the coast and asked to evacuate, follow the authorities' instructions. this is -- i love this country, but this cultural thing of american individualism that we have sometimes gets in the way

and sometimes costs lives. you have to sometimes follow the instructions of the experts and sometimes follow the instructions of the authorities that are trying to save your lives for goodness sake. people drowned in hurricane helene, just a couple of weeks ago, because they did not listen to authoriies and follow the evacuation orders. i think that people in florida are taking this serious, and i am seeing the preparation as people are on the road and trying to get out of harm's way, and this could be the new record-setting hurricane for florida in terms of property daniel. we just set it two years ago with hurricane ian, and our costliest disaster in history, and i would not be surprised if hurricane milton is the new multibillion dollar disaster in a state that has a insurance and

climate crisis amongst it, too. >> and with a crisis, peace knows no partisan divide of who it kills or whose business it destroys or school it wipes out, and why do you believe there is still a partisan response of doing anything about it? >> that is hard to say, because it is a small group, and the climate dismissives is a small part of the population, and is it amplified by the politicians? why? because they must feed the beast of the climate dismissivenessb

and i will try to avoid the word deniers. and the climate is here today, and it is not what is going to happen to the polar bears in the year 2100, and it is here right now, and we are seeing the consequences of the precipitation and the extreme heat and typhoons and hurricanes around the planet. so the sooner we get our heads out of you know where, and try to act on climate with greater urgency with the solutions that are already there. the solutions are there. we just have to have the will to implement them, and this is what people should demand from the electeds. they need to demand climate action. >> john morales, i know it is busy days, and it is a moment that really got me where i think that we all try to broadcast from, right. it is people that were in danger that really moved you and a

power that you know so well and got you to talk to us, and it is a privilege. thank you. >> thank you, thank you. we will talk to vaughan hillyard on the reporting and show you what vice president kamala harris has to say about all of this, and plus still to come is the state of the race which is four weeks today, and early voting under way in 39 states today and putting every poll and media in the spotlight. we will break it down for you. and why in 2020 was donald trump secretly sending much needed covid tests to vladimir putin and what seems to be out of an snl skit, and sadly, it wasn't. more on donald trump and vladimir putin's post-presidency

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i worked in the trump administration. >> never in a million years did i think that i would be working in the white house with a president who did not care about the american people. >> he would suggest not giving disaster relief to states that had not voted for him. >> i remember one time after a wildfire in california, he would not send relief because it was a democratic state, and so we went as far to looking up how many votes he got in the impacted areas to show him that these are people who voted for you. this is not normal. the job of the president is to protect americans. regardless of politics.

>> if trump is elected again, there is no one to stop his worst instincts and you will have yes-men and no unchecked power and only yes men. >> i am voting for kamala harris, because she is going to put the security first. >> i am kamala harris and i approve the message. vaughan, it is a hard thing to cover his indifference to human suffering, and the staffers and to show him that some of those suffering are his staffers, and it is beyond a political policy or tick, but it is an impediment to leading if you are not protecting those suffering from wildfires, and tell me what eight or nine years of reporting is? >> well, let's be clear of this

is different of 2018 or 2019, because we have a body of evidence of who donald trump is. and the time of when he was in the white house then and now, and that is when he ran a propaganda campaign. and talking about wildfires in 2019, 2020, and he said the would make the people of the state of california pay, because they had not done their part to groom the forest, and not the mention that it was federal land where most of the wildfires were taking place. and i remember being in arizona at the height of the pandemic, and he flew in for an indoor rally on the day they had just announced the highest single-day death toll, and the highest single day toll, and what did donald trump do? he tried to dispute the number of deaths, and the statistics and the numbers, because it worked against him in the political campaign. looking at puerto rico and when 3,000 people died after hurricane maria, and what did he say? 3,000 people did not die in the

two hurricanes in puerto rico, and this is done by democrats to make me look as possible. and 3,000 people died and donald trump tried to tell the american people it is not as bad. what is different is that he is not in office here, and be clear here, because i have covered a great number of storms here and i don't envy any of the teammates down there in north carolina, and what i don't envy is people using political position as a nominee for president to exploit people who are hungry, don't have working restrooms and these are folks who have lost all of their belongings, and some of them have lost their loved ones and this is what our team is covering, and 3,300 active military and national guard down there in north carolina alone and there are people in need. when we see elon musk in the form of his tweets are saying that fema is not doing their part and the biden-harris administration is letting the

people down, and leaving them strandeds, donald trump said just this morning, i cannot imagine anybody living in north carolina, alabama, georgia, tennessee, saying that they have not been stranded by her, and this is a moment when he is using people that is vulnerable, and he is not pointing to a certain story about someone being ignored, but it is a broad brush of people who are going through a difficult times and i come back to the very first point that we have a body of evidence now of how donald trump tries to use this and there a difference of the time when he was in the white house the deny reality to now when it is to deny reality to now a different way to exploit it. >> he lost in 2020, and are they sure it is a political winner for him? >> it is a good question. there are people who we know who he wants to galvanize to come out and vote. people that he needs to come out and vote for him, those trump

supporters that he needs to turn into trump voters. i don't know what it does for the middle part of the country who voted for him in 2016, and joe biden in 2020, and i don't think that we have the reporting the know the answer to that question, but donald trump by this without going into his mind, they believe it is a pure suggestion that he is trying to tell the north carolina voters who are currently going through chaos and crisis that they need to show up, and three weeks from now, and four weeks from now to vote, and make sure they are voter, because there are people who are not voters, and he needs the supporters to go out there to vote, and going directly at those folks. >> and clip that first part of what he just said because it laid out the arc of the analysis of how trump's behavior is now categorized for us. we can see it now and understand it better, because of what happened while he was in office. that is one. two, vaughan put his finger on a

very interesting aspect of what is happening in this campaign which is why i am probably more bullish than some of my peers and friends who are a little bit more bearish, and this is the fact that you have voters out there who have moved off of trump. no one really wants to delve into what that looks like. you have seen some analysis of it, and there is polling out today for example that shows that weakening. donald trump saw this in the private polling a month ago, and how do we know that? what did he do? he went out and told his voters how he needed them to behave. two months before that, what did he tell them? i don't need y'all to vote, we got this. we don't need you have to go out to do all of that extra stuff. the rnc is frozen in place, and no ground game to operationalize from what is coming from the democrats, and two campaigns

under way right now, and one is wanting to beat him, and the one that is running donald trump, and the one that is run by donald trump is running into the roadblock that vaughan put up that is seeping voters and kamala harris is trying to sop them up. >> i would say mutually exclusive paths, and he is trying to win the people who did not leave after january 6th, and a smart campaign and i won't say anything else about las aveda. and it is strategic, and it is cynical as you know what, but strategic to view those people as in your column, and trump is incapable of doing that, and the other thing that i would add is this trump version has elon musk cheering, and literally cheering behind him, which is not any strategist's idea of a winning closing argument.

>> and in north carolina, and that is the one battleground state that donald trump won in 2018 and 2019, and if he loses, we will be hearing about north carolina. the reason that michael wattley is the new chair of the rnc is because he was convinced that he could stop the steal in his state, and that why he has made seven stops in that state, and if he does not win north carolina, look at this hurricane being repoliticized by donald trump. >> going back a month ago, the polls started to move in north carolina. so good. thank you so much. i knew that you would bring the receipts, and they are all over my table. vaughan, thank you for your reporting, and michael steele is sticking around. and coming up, donald trump is breaking with all tradition and norms and wriggling out of a real interview with a fox news lovefest, and what he said to laura ingraham, and we will show

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(marci) what is going on? (luke) people love how the new homes-dot-com helps them get quick answers about any property by connecting them to the actual listing agent. (agent) oh! so, i'm done? (luke) oh, no, no, no! we're still not sure everyone knows that we're the only site that always connects you to the listing agent rather than selling off your contact info. so, we're gonna keep you up there a little while longer. (agent) okay, ya! i'm getting great exposure. (marci) speaking of exposure, could we get him a hat? (luke) ooo, what about a beret? (vo) homes-dot-com. we've done your home work. the campaign offered shifting explanations. first it complained that we would fact-check the interview. we fact-check every story. later, trump said that he needed an apology for his interview in 2020. trump claims that correspondent leslie stahl said in that interview that hunter biden's controversial laptop came from

russia. she never said that. trump has said that his opponent doesn't do interviews because she can't handle them. he had previously declined another debate with harris. so, tonight, it may have been the largest audience for the candidates between now and election day. and trump passed. passed on doing that interview. what did he do instead, we wonder? in place of a closing interview that scott pelley says may have been the largest tv audience ahead of the election for trump, and something that the candidates have participated in for half a century, and what did he do instead? so he could enjoy a heaping friendly softballs from fox news with t-shirts bearing his name, and in that warm blanket of

atmosphere, not just ability our institutions, but how he might use them. >> how will you restore faith in our justice system, and a lot of people will say, he is just going to do to them for what he did to them. >> well, a lot of people think that is what i should do. >> yeah. how do you like me now. >> wel, you have said that success is your best revenge. >> well, in south america, when they go after an opponent -- >> and when you get in office, you are going to be looking at the political enemies -- >> look, i want to make this the most successful country in the world. >> laura knows retribution is a

loser, and she can't get him to walk off of it, and that is terrifying. joining us is owner of media matters, and also with us, is ruth. and so, michael, i want to ask you about fact-checking. it was subversive and j.d. vance in the first debate said, hey, no fact-checking, and that is the deal i struck, and then scott pelley saying, that it was the largest audience that was available to him, and the people who were not high supply on your disinfo, and trump passed because there would be fact, and fact-checking. >> yeah. what we have to understand is that authoritarians like trump not only think that they are above the law, but above the truth, and that ultimately it is their right to determine what

the truth is. and to that end, they create a fabricated world, and anything that's going to puncture that world which is also, and they can come over time to believe parts of themselves, they become like megalomanics, and any of that part is punctured, it is viewed as real aggression, and early on in his presidency, trump said to a reporter "the fake news is creating violence," because they were asking too many questions and talking about lying on his behalf, right. so it is viewed as an aggression, and thus, aggression is a legitimate reprisal, and on that basis, autocrats go after the press every time and view them as an enemy of the state. >> ruth, the other piece that is in there is this demand for an apology, and you know, the fragile ego insulted by a

challenging female journalist leslie stahl which feels like the portrait of a thin-skinned portrait of him as well. >> yes, and it is real scary with real plans to harm real people, and it is that all of the aggression is not coming from a place of strength, and i have studied them for years, and it is coming from a place of weakness and fragility and they have to put away and lock up anybody who can harm them, and that why they build the bunkers and the palaces, and why they have to create these fortresses of lies and adulation around them. ultimately the pathologies of rule where they sound themselves of inter sanctums and these yes-people, and then they make bad decisions including in

force. and all of this is coming from a place of fragility, and that why they can be mopped and demand apologies and humiliate people, and it is a syndrome of a certain kind of personality. >> and the syndrome also includes rampant anti-semitism. and let me read you this, angelo, from the washington post, and quote, tropes have come with conspiracy theories of the chaos of the recovery effort, according to a report released from the nonprofit institute of strategic dialogue, and it relied on three mistropes that were about hurricane helene, and the post attracted 369 million views and even though the claims were debunked by fema, the white house and other government officials. and ten of the posts contained anti-semitic sentiments and collectively drew 17.1 million

views. in comparison, fema drew 6.2 million views for the ten most popular views. so the trump campaign in the final four weeks is amplifying content that is against fema, the white house, and the local residents and the very people he is trying to win over. this feels like a hyperspiral to something different than what we have been covering for nine years. >> i appreciate that you acknowledge that this is different, and the last discussion when vaughan was talking about in a way that part of this is sowing the seeds, and incubating narratives that they can pluck back up if the election does not go their way, and they can point to is all being sewn right now, and what is different from my perspective is one of the things that rupert

acknowledged just before the election that who could have corrected the record before the election and ultimately they decided not to issue any statements back then, and in 2022, where fox was positioned if they told the truth, a large enough segment of that audience would have consumed it, and it would have had a neutralizing effect, and the differences is that this is the difference is that no longer a single entity in sort of that fortress of lies, and i love that description that trump is behind that can actually penetrate it and neutralize the lies. it is scattering them out. so if one of them decides to go rogue, the effects are limited. if "60 minutes" said no fact-checking, and laura ingram fact-checked that rally, and said that kamala harris had not been in north carolina, and in

fact, was there right now, and that did not penetrate, because it was acknowledged, and this different, because the seeds are being sewn across multiple platforms and the position of x has is in the same position that fox had a few cycles ago, and they are simply too big, too influential, and too many narratives have been seeded there and incubated that it is impossible to singularly swap them down. so if fox news spun on a dime, it would be impossible to stop that fortress of lies. >> so where are we, angelo? >> we are in a difficult place, and there are a lot of antibodies in the system, and "m not a medical person, but it is going to follow the same patterns of medical patterns, and this is why we call it viral. the only way to deal with the

misinformation is not to correct it on the backend, but you have to have antibodies in them is, and some trusted sources and you have to have some friction in the system, and some mechanisms that slow it down from spreading so that good information can get out there and get in front of it, and that is the thing that is really scary from my perspective and forget about the lack of antibodies, but the friction that had been in the system is not only removed, but accelerated so that all of the platforms are not just letting it happen, but boost it, and saturate it and amplify it which have not existed in previous cycles, and so the opportunism to expand that is great both from the foreign adversaries and the trump campaign, and because it is not something they are building on the fly, challenging the election is the plan b. they have been planning for this. that is what makes this so different. and we are in a scary position. >> it feels like that is the conversation that we have to have next, like tomorrow,

because that is being seeded. i guess that the last thing that i learned from both of you is that despair and hopelessness is the tactic, and the real antibody is us. we are the answer. in our faith and ability to vote and reject it is the answer, and that is what they are most afraid of, and it is all designed to make it seem impossible, but it is possible. angelo and ruth, sorry to put you on the spot on live tv, and i hope that we can have that conversation later this week. ahead for us today, vice president is hitting all of the airwaves this week laying out the vision for the future and talking about how america can turn the page on all of this that we have been talking about, and saying it in traditional and nontraditional audiences, but making sure that we see it and hear it. we will talk about the strategy next. trategy next. that have switched to golo as a better way to lose weight with golo you simply take one release supplement with each meal and follow the golo for life plan

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people are exhausted. and they're exhausted with the lies. they're exhausted with the selfishness. they're exhausted with the attempt to divide us as americans. >> yes. >> and they're ready to turn the page and chart a new way forward. >> yes. >> and i feel very optimistic about that. that was today. media whirlwind. what do you think? >> i think it's great. i think it's great. kamala, do your thing. hit everybody, everywhere, everywhere all at once. that's the goal here. you got four weeks from tonight, we're going to be sitting in the

space, watching the country make its judgment. and she has done -- think about, just take a step back, folks. and think about what we've asked her to do. she gets switched in. all right, the big switch happened. she's now the nominee with 105 days to convince you she can be president of the united states. 105 days. donald trump announced for the presidency in november of 2022. he's been running since november of 2022. she's been running, as the nominee of the democratic party, for roughly 80 some days. so, the reality of it is -- what she's been able to do in that period of time is to galvanize the country, to look at the country, not the politics, not the race itself, but the country differently than it has. >> let me make it more personal. and maybe this is an ex-republican, who is now sort of firmly and publicly in a

pro-democracy position, a single issue pro-democracy, voter, voting for hillary clinton followed by the second easiest vote of my life, joe biden. to assembled -- to be standing with the support of dick and liz cheney. >> yep. >> and bernie sanders and congress woman alexandria ocasio-cortez is something she doesn't get enough credit for, that's history. >> she doesn't get credit for it because the media and the political establishment want to run a traditional campaign. they want to run the race of 2016 or 2009 or whatever. and this landscape, since 2015, has been an asymmetrical landscape because trump is an asymmetrical player. what she has done -- >> i totally agree. trump benefitted from the asymmetry. she's the first one to answer him, to shrink him, to pop him down to size. >> thank you. >> that's why he's freaking out. >> it's why he's freaking out

because his internal numbers are -- that's why he pines, pines for joe biden because that race his numbers tell him i can win. the other thing that's important -- i was talking with mike madrid, noted pollster and coms and political guy inside the gop about this whole seepage issue. no one is paying attention to the seepage. >> explain. exmain. >> well, the seepage is donald trump is seeping some of his own support. and it goes to what you saw -- what you led in with the vice president. people are exhausted. yeah, trump supporters get tired, too. they go to these rallies. he's an hour late and drones on and he rambles and talks about -- >> it's more cellular than that, too. they're exhausted with trump. they maybe thought desantis was going to win. he didn't. they didn't pay super close attention. >> right. >> and they thought with biden, he's too old. her to give them the permission structure.

she has not made a single mistake, run a flawless 100 day campaign. she has liz cheney support. i think there's an inability to find what the real vote is. >> there is. and she's tapped into that in a way that i think -- >> in the polls. i'm not saying in the voting. but in the polls. >> in the polls. and i think, look, the reality of it is right now folks are now getting from -- to that point where their like, okay, i got these two choices. which one do i want. she's making the more appealing message to an exhausted voter. that is why identify said, north carolina, florida, georgia are in play for the democrats because those voters are exhausted, too. >> exhausted and in danger and getting lied to and exploited. it's such a treat to have you here. congratulations on the roaring success. >> thank you. >> alicia and simone are great. we're having a good time. >> thank you for having here. thank you for doing an extra hour. up next a closer look at what we've been talking about, the state of the race with four weeks to go until election day

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♪♪ if he is not going to give your viewers the ability to have a meaningful, thoughtful conversation, question and answer with you, then watch his rallies. you're going to hear conversations that are about himself and all of his personal grievances. and what you will not hear is anything about you, the listener. you will not hear about how he's going to try to bring the country together, find common ground. and bill, that is why i believe in my soul and heart the american people are ready to turn the page. we call that a jedi mind tricks. watch his rallies, i dare you. hi again, everybody. we're exactly four weeks out from election day in america and

we will see if the american people do, in fact, want to turn the page or not. from ex-president donald trump. most of all, if not all elections are about change. voters cast their ballots for a candidate who they believe will do things differently, will usher in improvements to make their lives better. according to brand new polling from "the new york times" and siena college, vice president kamala harris is now that pick for change for the very first time, among that poll's previous findings. 46% of voters said that kamala harris was the candidate representing change in this election, as opposed to 44% who said trump is. when asked who they would vote for if the election were held today, likely voters chose vice president harris over donald trump. 49 to 46, a lead for the democratic candidate, but one that is within the margin of error. this is the first time notably that harris has led trump in the times siena poll since july when president joe biden dropped out

of the race and democrats first rallied behind her. meanwhile, a new reuters poll also shows vice president kamala harris coming out ahead, 46-43% of registered voters choosing the vice president over ex-president trump. that, too, is within the margin of error. while vice president harris is heading in the right direction ahead of election day, these razor thin margins among the candidates showed just how crucial the last 28 days are. each interview, each stop on the campaign trail, each choice that they make about where to go, each ad, all of it can be decisive. especially considering that early voting is under way right now in 38 states and washington, d.c. a way of voting that was critical to president joe biden's victory in 2020. those include states that can start sending mail ballots to voters who have reported ballots returned already or have begun early in-person voting. according to the "times" reporting, already more than 48 million absentee ballots have

been requested nationwide. the state of the race with just four weeks to go is where we begin the hour with some of our favorite experts and friends. democratic strategist and pollster msnbc political analyst, cornell belcher is here. plus, former campaign manager for barack obama's 2012 re-election campaign, jim masina is here. political strategist and msnbc senior analyst matt dowd is here and at the table, democratic strategist ayesha mills is here. how are you feeling? >> i am feeling very optimistic. these latest polls today are so encouraging. and i think that what we have seen is the most historic kind of one foot in front of the other but very quick campaign ever for presidential candidate. kamala harris jumped in and has been on a constant upward trajectory. people kept saying, nicole, oh, well, this is going to fade after convention. and you know, we don't think she can carry the momentum. and the opposite has been true. and so, that is very encouraging that here we are, 28 days left

and you're just continuing to see those poll numbers go up for her. >> and cornell, one of the greatest assets on a campaign in its final 28 days, we have all been there, is when -- >> pollster, as a pollster? >> yes. no, not as a pollster, but when your candidate moves the polls, right? i'll let matt speak, but that is not always the case for everybody. that is not the case if you look at trump's schedule, right? what they have in vice president harris is where she goes, she helps. same with tim walz, my understanding. tell me how that informs what you do. >> well, one thing i want to talk about the polls is, again, with the caveat is polls are not predictors of the future, people. we're not -- they're not crystal balls and we're not wizards. they're instructive. if you look at what the polls are showing right now, are seeing a consistent lead build for harris. but again, people, the polls

don't get too anxious about the polls. they're going to change and the margins will change, as you saw between those two polls recently out, difference of several points because of the saying we call the likely voter. and nicole, what is a likely voter? 2016 was not what a likely voter was in 2020, what a likely voter -- i feel when you look at the numbers to point to that issue was making that sort of enthusiasm, motivation where you look at the enthusiasm and motivation numbers in some of my polling i have seen go up ten points among certain segments of the elect rale, especially young people and people of color, i assure you the electorate your going to see in 2024 will not look exactly the electorate you saw in 2020. i think that you're going to have more robust, probably more robust and electorate probably a point or two browner than what we saw in 2020. now, that said, all the trend lines are really moving in the right direction. i know we talked about the

change element at the top of the hour where she's now taking the lead on change. but also, nicole, something we talk about all the time here is who is better on the economy, right? and the republican always tends to have the advantage on the economy generically, certainly romney had an advantage over the economy generically. but, who cares about people like you, right? and who is going to look out for people like you? and there when you sort of get underneath the economic numbers of who will be fighting for you, who will be fighting for the middle class, who will be fighting for working class people there you see also "the new york times" poll, she has eight or four-point lead, depending on if you fight -- look out for people like you or cares about people like you, that's where you see her building momentum is people thinking she's going to look out and fight for people like them. >> jim masina, this campaign takes absolutely nothing for granted. i know you know some of the folks leading and steering this

campaign. just take me inside their 24/7 thinking. >> well, first they're looking to find new voters and new avenues to voters. i think they're being really smart on how their doing that. you know, she was on a bunch of podcasts. she did howard stern today. she did "60 minutes." these are not traditional things. yet they're really lazor focussed. they're not taking anything for granted. their pegging their staff not to look at the polls and stay focus on the number one thing they care about which is everyday in wilmington they get a report on who voted the night before in the battleground states and how their breaking. and their field effort, all their media effort is now focussed on those voters. the voters who are both supportive of her and undecided on this race. i agree with cornell. the theory the democratic party has been will win in part because we couldn't win on the economy. a month ago "the new york times" poll he had a seven point lead on the economy over harris.

it's now two points. to cornell's point, if you look at the cares about people like you a better number, who you think she's fighting for, she has a five or six point lead. that is just unprecedented and allows what i think is happening in this election, nicole, she has room to move. and after three presidential campaigns, people are just sick of him and he doesn't really have any room to move. and so she's starting to narrowly pull this race apart a little bit. >> you know, matt dowd, i am one of the people who describe trump as fat elvis. and i always feel like that's so mean to elvis. and fat. i hate that. but, being fun is interesting to me in that category, right? that people on the question of being fun, i think that's the biggest gap in the numbers that we keep putting up. she's beating him 43-35%. that even his numbers are higher than that. but even among his base they

don't think it's fun or funny anymore. so what i see the in that number. >> nicole, as you remember, in 2004, i used to tell the press if you want to figure out who is winning go to each campaign. whatever campaign is having more fun, that campaign is likely winning. and that's the case this year. i mean, it is one of these kind of campaigns that you -- people want to be a part of it. therefore the campaign and the candidate exude that. and what that allows them to do is build sort of an army of volunteers who want to be the same part of that fun, you know, great emotional effort that moves from a campaign to a mission and it becomes more like barack obama's first campaign in this sort of people want to be a part of this new thing. i think that pollsters and polling is finally catching up to where i always thought this race would be. i am not surprised that she's taking the lead on the candidate of change. even though she is the incumbent vice president. because she's a woman of mixed

race. and naturally a woman of mixed race is going to be perceived as a candidate of change, not the old white guy which every other president besides president obama was the white guy. i think this race -- i agree with everything that jim said and ayee sha and cornell said. i would add one other thing, people have this innate fear about 2016 where hillary led all the polls and fuss over it. i kept a sign on my door, the yates quote, the irish have an abiding sense of tragedy which sustains them through temporary periods of joy. this is a temporary period of joy but tragedy is coming. the huge difference between 2016 and 2024 is hillary clinton had no advantage on honest and trustworthy. and so even though she had a slight advantage on favorability, when you ask candidate who could be honest and trustworthy, they distrusted both the same. this time, as the poll you just showed and many other polls, the

vice president has an 11-point advantage on honest and trustworthy. this is not 2016. and the other part of this is that she has a huge enthusiasm gap over donald trump in this race. donald trump enthusiasm gap advantage in 2016. a very different race. >> the other thing that's remarkable, just having worked on campaigns, is that it's a campaign that's very responsive to political movement but completely indifferent to the chattering. i want to make a distinction you have to be responsive to things happening in the states or weaknesses in your polling. you can't sort of hunker down. but you don't have to listen to the noise. and i think -- i say this as someone -- i think their press strategy is brilliant. it's exactly what we did on the george bush campaigns which was to talk to people where they are. it's not really novel, but the idea that they could block out

all of the churn around that is a sign of a very confident, calm and strategic campaign. >> and one that cares deeply about actually talking to real people. >> to people, yeah. >> and voters. that's exactly what you're alluding to. remember when the campaign first started, the chattering class said, oh, well, why isn't she doing major sit down interviews with the press. when is she going to go on whatever outlet it happened to be and do an interview. she is not taking questions. i'm going straight to the people. we'll be campaigning and in swing states. now that she's talking to the press, the chattering class is saying that's not the right press that she's talking to. at the end of the day, she's reaching outlets that are reaching voters. so whether she is on a podcast trying to get to gen z, and talking to millennials or going on a howard stern show where she's sitting down at "the view" having conversations. the differentiator is that kamala harris is excited about sitting down with people and being a dialogue and having a

conversation. you're not seeing donald trump be in conversation with anybody. when he is standing next to someone in like parallel engagement, he's generally barking at them or quipping at something they asked him. but he's not in a real genuine dialogue with anyone but whatever these people are in his head that are talking to him. so i think that matters. that's why we're seeing those polling numbers say, hey, this person is fun and she's caring about me because she's talking to me. >> and i just don't want to sort of peddle something -- dana bash and "60 minutes" she is doing all of it. and i think the other thing that she had in mind was that these tests were extra for her, cornell. the debate was super important for her. and the expectations were ridiculous. she had to be nice and strong, tough but friendly, substantive and aggressive but not too -- and everyone came on the air, oh

my god, she did all those things. just talk about the campaign that she's run and how people are responding to it, cornell. >> well, not as surprising to you and ayesha on the panel is that women are held to a different standard. they have to do all these different things that men, we just don't have to do. so she has been held to a very different standard. but i can tell you, she's come through in flying color. look, to the point that jim was making, they're running a very disciplined campaign, right? and while we bash the idea that she's not doing enough interviews, look, we talked about this before, nicole, so much of what we do on cable television right now, the most important target audience for that campaign right now, look, i love msnbc, but they're not tuning into us. right? so when she was doing that show,

you know, that that social media thing, that was one of the largest places where younger women go to hear news and information. so they're being very smart and strategic so jim's point, looking and trying to bring in new voters and chasing voters that aren't necessarily the traditional voters which makes a lot of sense. and i think, again to the point where i think we're going to have a different elector right now. i think they're going to expand the elector. we'll see what we saw in -- i think you'll have a expanded different electorate that looks different which we saw the last time around and they're doing that strategically and i think it's smart which is also why i think a lot of polling that we're seeing right now, they're going to miss the mark. and that's not to beat up on polling because polling is only as good as the art. and that is judging what the proper electorate is. i'm telling you none of us have a good understanding of what the electorate will look like. >> not to sugar coat the real

anxiety every good strategist feels in the final four weeks. tell me what keeps you up at night, jim? >> trump underpolling and overperforming again. there's some wave. i agree with dowd, i don't think there is. that's one. and two, some big october surprise is the other thing. you know, how a war the middle east would affect things, things you don't control. i remember both obama campaigns the last month i was absolutely miserable because i just wanted it other because we were leading. and i remember what keeps you up at night is the stuff you can't control. i i that's probably what wilmington is thinking today as well. >> matt dowd what keeps you up at night? >> the same thing that kept me up in 2004, which is we make all these preconceived notions what we think it's going to look like and we have everything mapped out according to that, and we think it's going to go that way. i thought, as you know, i thought george bush would win

the race by 2.5 to 3 point. he won it by 2.5 points. everything turned out that way. you start questioning, do i have this right? i have to say one other thing about the vice president, because her race in 2019 and 2020 and in 2024, to me what it's like is in 2019 and '24, she was a rookie quarterback. she was kind of like peyton manning. threw interceptions at times. we saw her brilliance at times and in certain moments but felt at times sometimes undisciplined but we saw the moments of brilliance. she's in her sophomore season of a presidential campaign. now we see who she is and fundamentally, she has the experience under the belt and she is -- i mean, i'm not surprised because i saw moments of brilliance of her in 2019 and 2020. but she is a superstar candidate. she is an unbelievable superstar candidate. >> and anyone that coffered the senate judiciary committee, as i did, and saw her question, without a teleprompter, without a script, the likes of bill barr

and jeff sessions and brett kavanaugh and sort of reduce them to -- i mean, they're all powerful people in their own right and in their own orb its, she reduced every one of them in a way that she's the only common denominator. so i think there was -- perfect analogy. to see it all in a retail political campaign, maybe is the new feature. but she's been who she is. there's much more about the state of the race. there's what's going on on the other side, it's really, really dark, but it may be informed by the same things we're talking about in the polls. at least it's possible. we'll talk about the state of the race with four weeks to go and the fears that donald trump could once again see that he's lost and try to overturn another defeat. and incite his followers to violence. we'll show you what he's saying. bomb shell new reporting about the disgraced ex-president bizarrely intimate relationship with vladimir putin.

it comes from bob's new book. donald trump sent vladimir putin covid tests in 2020 while the people he led scrambled to find them. there's more where that came from. the latest examples of trump's inexplicable obsession and affinity with one of the world's authoritarians. "deadline white house" continues. don't go anywhere. continues. don't go anywhere. but st. jude has gotten us through it. st. jude is hope for every child diagnosed with cancer because the research is being shared all over the world. ah, these bills are crazy. she has no idea she's sitting on a goldmine. well she doesn't know that if she owns a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more she can sell all or part of it to coventry for cash. even a term policy. even a term policy? even a term

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the level of un-american

activity that you just saw is stunning. that is un-american. they know they're lying. donald trump knows that's a lie. he will tell you that the secret service, he thought, did the best job they could do. the fact that jd vance and trump's family would out and out say what they said takes the threat of violence -- takes the threat beyond where it was even leading up to january, the 6th. this is an increasingly desperate person, an increasingly desperate family who's preparing for civil war. they just are. stunning, grim, an accurate

warning from our colleague, joe scarborough. he was reacting to donald trump's falsehood uttered over the weekend at his rally that democrats were behind the attempts to assassinate him, a claim that was repeated that day by donald trump's running mate and family members. we are now only four weeks from election day begs the question, what is he doing? and what is donald trump, what are his followers capable of and ready to do in a post-january 6th landscape if trump loses? we're back with cornell, jim, matt and ayesha. now, we probably would have had to have this conversation even if trump hadn't said what he said. just for anyone not following it, the state of the fbi investigation into the attempted assassination over the summer is that a motive has not been determined by law enforcement. the knowingly lying about democrats trying to kill him is a horrific thing to cover.

it's something that i'll be honest, i had hoped to not have to deal with or play or amplify, but i think joe scarborough put it on the table in a way that i think we do have to deal with it. and i wonder, matt dowd, what you -- actually let me do one more thing. let me put one more piece of information on the table. this is the harris/walz campaign's message on january 6th. >> we fight like hell. if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore. >> new evidence about donald trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election. >> this is bomb shell after bomb shell after bomb shell. >> trump was pressuring pence to take action. >> pence is betraying the united states of america! >> trump looked at him and said only, so what. >> so matt dowd, this is a campaign issue, donald trump

said but he said at a rally, the harris campaign is out with that ad based on the new public filing from jack smith, special counsel, looking at donald trump's conduct before and leading up to january 6th. what do we, as voters, need to understand for the next 30 days and maybe beyond? >> yeah, likely beyond, depending on what happens and how it unfolds election day and aftermath of election night. i mean, i think that what we see here is -- i actually think everything that trump is doing and the republicans are doing on this in this mode and talking about threatening things and saying cheating and all that actually works against them. because i think where most people are and especially where most swing voters are, they're tired of the chaos. they're tired of the cruelty. they're just tired of all of this. and they basically to put this behind them and move on to something else. and every time i think donald

trump does this, he reminds them, oh, we're still in this chaos world. donald trump is running a chaotic campaign. donald trump had a chaotic presidency. he's threatening civil war and chaos in the aftermath of this. and so, i think all of that he's doing and i think the harris/walz campaign is smartly reemphasizing exactly what donald trump is and what they want to do, but i think so much -- i think so much of what happens is totally dependent on what unfolds on election night. because i can give you a couple of different scenarios where it doesn't happen at all, which is my hope. nothing happens. she wins so overwhelmingly, she puts away number of states north carolina, michigan and all that that basically the voters are we're disillusioned, let's get past donald trump and move on. that's my hope in what happens. i think the country would be better for that. that's an entirely different scenario than if she wins three

states of electoral votes, barely wins and wins by a few thousand votes. then i think that january 6th and what happened in 2020 is a parlor game compared to what could happen if that happens this time. isle really worried about that, nicole. i'm really worried that's the place we could end up. but my hope is that the margin will be such that voters will move on quickly and become basically disillusioned with donald trump's schtick. >> we know one of the cleaving off points for republicans from sarah longwell's wonderful focus-group work with republican voters against trump is january 6th. it's interesting that trump's own language is in this wheelhouse of violence, when that's the very issue that repelled some of his two-time voters from him. >> yeah, and in the 2022 elections, every single election

denier who ran for statewide office in the battleground states lost. nicole, you called yourself a single issue democracy voter which i loved. it really is what this election is about. whole bunch of people saying this is -- if we don't stop him now, we might not have a democracy. and it's incredibly motivating. and the number that i look at everyday is the enthusiasm number. and cornell and i were talking about this earlier. when you look at enthusiasm, the democrats are way more enthusiastic by ten points because they understand the what's at stake here. and republicans are just kind of sitting back here, a whole bunch of them, liz cheney, country club republicans that you and i grew up with, saying this is not our party anymore. and we're not enthused by it. and it really is changing the election in a very dramatic way because the democrats are enthusiastic and the republicans aren't.

>> there's an icky feeling covering this part of the story. we don't live in a country where trump-inspired and incited violence is a hypothetical. we live in post january 6th america. i wonder what you think sort of in people's guts, voters of any party or any persuasion, especially if you have kids that are watching feel about that. >> yeah. when people show you who they are, believe them. and that's the thing is that time and time and time again trump has shown us who he is and the maga contingency shows us who they are, willing to form violent mobs, incite violence, say all kind of crazy, nasty things, tear down the government, attack people. and so, we should be paying attention to this and taking it seriously. and i'm glad that we're talking about it. we also need to talk about it in the historic context of how we got here because here's the thing, this is not trump being a smart guy who just came one a

cool campaign strategy to win. this is a direct piece of the play book of autocrats, right? this is how putin rose to power. hey, completely divert democracy, destabilize government, bash all of the institutions that have held us together, tell the biggest, craziest lies that you can come up with because normal people like you and i, we don't want to believe like crazy lies, right? and so if the lie is that big, then it must be true. even though it's not, right? that's what we're seeing. i don't know why people thought they were going to believe the eating cats and dogs thing. they're going as extreme as possible now. the extremism absolutely infects some. there are people who are seeing memes and buying it and believing it. that's the part that i don't ever want us to lose sight of. those polls that we just talked about in the last segment are still too close for me. why isn't the margin of error, are you kidding me, right? when we know that there's so much horrible going on. and just lies and deceit on the

republican side in terms of their campaign strategy. and yet america is still that close, which shows us that america is still quite divided. so we do need to stay vigilant and pay attention. the other thing i would drop, we're not talking about voter suppression. we're jumping to what happens after the election. >> all predicated on the lie, the bills. >> that's going to happen, too. that's going to happen, too. >> so much more to talk about. only, what, 28 days to do it. please all keep your calendars free between 4 and 6. cornell belcher, jim masins a, matt dowd, ie' sha mills. coming up, how donald trump sent covid tests to vladimir putin. how close trump was to putin and how the four years since their relationship has deepened. that's next. ip has deepened. that's next. i'm adding downy unstopables to my wash. now i'll be smelling fresh all day long.

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[cheering] silly face, ready? discover who they are. [playing music] what they want from this world. and how they will make it better. and while parenting has changed, how much you care has not. that's why instagram is introducing teen accounts. automatic protections for who can contact them and the content they can see. ♪♪ everybody was scrambling to get these kits, the tests, the covid test kits. >> couldn't get them. >> couldn't get them. couldn't get them anywhere. and this guy who is president of the united states is sending them to russia, to a murderous dictator for his personal use? the point being that is just the most recent stark example of who donald trump is.

that he secretly sent covid test kits for the personal use of putin, of russia, an adversary to the united states, when he was talking about americans should be putting bleach in their blood. >> if you made it up, nobody would believe you. that was vice president harris today reacting to this unbelievable, surreal, new reporting and forthcoming book by bob woodward, at the height of the pandemic, while donald trump was the president of the secretly sent putin a bunch of abbott point of care covid test machines for his personal use. it was a favor to the murderous dictator of russia who is infamously terrified of contracting covid. vice president kamala harris pointed out, americans here were struggling to get access to tests themselves because there was a shortage at the time.

woodward writes that putin was worried how this revelation would damage trump politically. putin telling trump this, quote, i don't want you to tell anybody because people would get mad at you, not me. and the personal relationship between the two, donald trump and vladimir putin, has persisted. maybe deepened over the last four years. with woodward reporting that donald trump has secretly spoken to vladimir putin as many as seven times since leaving office. the trump campaign dismissed wood ward's book in a statement today, they did not address any of the specifics reported in it by woodward. joining our coverage chief international affairs -- chief international analyst, former supreme allied commander of nato, admiral james stavridis is here. "the restless wave" a novel of the united states navy, which we'll get to in a minute. also joining our conversation,

former undersecretary of state for public diplomacy and public affairs during the obama administration. seven times, i don't think melania has appeared seven times in public in four years. >> i have two media reactions. one this sounds, i have medals other the years, 28 from foreign nations. the declaration of -- and you know, i just published this novel. it's impossible to think about the fictional element of this. you have to really struggle to come up with a plot like this. outrageous doesn't begin to get at it. >> seven times in the four years

since trump left office donald trump was charged with stealing classified documents. and vladimir putin publicly planned a war against ukraine. do you have any national security concerns? >> oh, of course. and you know, let's back up and examine who is vladimir putin. he is a murderer. he is someone who has absolutely used every tool to suppress his own people. he's kidnapped americans and effectively held them for ransom. evan gir sh wits. why a former president of the united states would be in frequent communication, yes. i have national security concerns. and let me close with this, let me tell you for sure the russians have recorded every bit of that conversation. i vowed to my good friend, rick

stengel, in terms of the public relations, the ability of russia to blackmail a former and possibly the next president. it's quite shocking. >> we're back to -- in '16 it was a pee tape. we're back to the question. you use that word. it's something that has hung over donald trump since he stepped into public life. >> you know, i've often tried the thought experiment that follows. donald trump is an agent of vladimir putin. prove the opposite. i mean, there's no evidence -- >> i usually go with useful idiot, but keep going. >> there's no evidence that he's kind of oligarch out of the country for vladimir putin. the seven phone calls -- i don't understand why people are not talking about the logan act. the logan act clear violation when you're talking to a leader of a hostile foreign power that may be affecting u.s. foreign

policy. that's something that people should think about. but this goes so far back. it goes back to the 1980s, the fact that he married a czechoslovakia woman. they are not only recording those phone calls, as jim said. they opened a file from him back in the '80s, trying to open a trump tower in moscow, he brought the miss universe contest to moscow in 1980s, saying putin loves me. it's really strange. some day, i hope, when some kgb officer defects, we'll find out the true story. >> seven phone calls with vladimir putin. i mean, if you -- someone said you can listen to all seven of them, what's the theory on it? >> it's funny. we have heard phone calls that he's had with foreign leaders, like the zelenskyy phone call. there was that terrific story "the new york times" today about

the hamburg -- >> yeah. >> in 2017. and what you find about the conversations is one guy is talking 97% of the time. that's vladimir putin. and one guy is listening. so it was so upsetting about the hamburg thing is that he was coached to go in there. you have to defend ukraine. you have to defend u.s. interests. and he actually asked putin the question, do you think i should be giving aid to ukraine? this is maybe the worst presidential negotiation in american history from a guy who claims to be a good negotiator. so i think putin is talking his ear off and he's listening. >> no one is going anywhere. we have to fit in a very short break. we'll all be right back. there's so much more. more i pop on a pad and get a mop-like clean floor in just one swipe. wow! and for hair, try swiffer dry cloths. the fluffy cloths pick up hair like a magnet. swiffer. you'll love it or your money back. hi, my name is damian clark. if you have both medicare and medicaid, i have some really encouraging news that

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i believe that donald trump has this desire to be a dictator. he admires strong men, and he gets played by them because he thinks that they're his friends. >> yeah. >> and they are manipulating him full time, and manipulating him by flattery. >> yeah. >> and with favor. >> we're all back. that is something that everyone who worked in a national security capacity, specially the military, would have seen firsthand. >> yes. >> what will it take for them to not necessarily tell people who to vote for, but tell the american people what they saw? >> well, i hope they do.

and here i'm speaking of close friends, general jim mattis, general john kelly, lieutenant general h.r. mcmasters, come the closest, he published a book, but frankly i think the book doesn't read to me like the unvarnished truth teller that i know hr mcmaster to be. i'm not asking them to endorse a political candidate. i'm not asking for them to tell americans who to vote for. but, i would like to see them with their firsthand knowledge, in and around the president, in critical, national, security situations, i would like them to describe that to us in some level of detail. >> why do you think they don't? >> i think it is two things. one, is all of them -- and i know all three of those general officers very well, are people of integrity and belief in the

apolitical role of the military. >> but donald trump is not. >> no, he's not at all. and i think that ought to be part of the calculus. and then secondly, i think it gets very personal, very quickly for each of them. the one that strikes me -- who has been on the record in a very fundamental and damning way about donald trump is john kelly. who was the one who had trump say to him, they are suckers and losers, who are buried here in this cemetery in europe. john kelly is a gold star father. his son, robby, died under my command in afghanistan when i was supreme allied commander in nato. john kelly told john kelly told us everything we need to know about donald trump in exposing that conversation. >> and it's not about asking these men to give more. they've already given more than most of us. it's about asking them to

protect the thing they love the most. >> yes. i think you take an oath to protect the constitution, an oath to the country. i certainly understand that the military should be and has always been apolitical. but the values that keep the military alive, whether it's the first amendment, whether it's freedom, are the things that ultimately your allegiance is to. so i completely understand what you're saying and i completely think they should come out and say what they witnessed. now, john kelly has. it's hard for me to imagine someone who has read what john kelly said about donald trump thinking that john kelly would vote for donald trump. all of it is out there. what i thought was interesting was what the vice president said is also about he's a terrible negotiator. he thinks it's about personalities and about smiling and friendship. he doesn't understand that countries have interests and that they are playing him

because he is susceptible to flattery, and that i think when the american people realize the guy who says, you know, invented the art of the deal doesn't know how to make a deal and gets played every time, they're not going to vote for him either. >> tell us about the novel. >> oh, i'd love to. it's set in the early days of world war ii, and therefore it examines the greatest generation but not in a perfect and heroic way. it's the greatest generation in their youth. so you really get a sense of people growing and making mistakes as they launch into this maelstrom, this inferno of war. and then secondly, nicolle and rick, it's about great power war, how devastating it is. it's a cautionary tale. churchill said the further you want to look into the future the more you must look into the past. looking back at world war ii helps us do that.

and the little easter egg in the book is that it's loosely based on dante's inferno. >> i have a 12-year-old who's obsessed with learning and consuming everything he can about world war ii, whether historical content -- we just watched "masters of the air." so all of it. so important to continue to put these stories out there. it. >> thank you. >> i can't wait to read it. admiral james stavridis, rick stengel, thank you for being part of this conversation. the new book is called "the restless wave: a novel of the united states navy." it's out today. pick it up. i'm going to. another break for us. we'll be right back. k for us we'll be right back.

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hurricane milton has reintensified to a category 5 storm with winds up to 165 miles per hour. that is according to the national hurricane center's 5:00 p.m. update. the massive storm is currently about 480 miles southwest of tampa and set to slam into the state of florida tomorrow night. intense rain from milton has already hit parts of milton. for the latest update on the added areas that could be impacted and reminded residents to evacuate if they are told to do so. florida residents have been racing against time, filling sandbags, boarding up windows and often facing miles-long gridlock traffic as they attempt to leave evacuation areas. we'll stay on that. another break for us. we'll be right back. be right ba. o breath freshener clinically proven to help reverse

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