welcome back. there is 24 days until election day and donald trump cannot stop lying on the campaign trail is not his usual lies. he is lying about recovery and relief efforts from the hurricanes and about migrant committees where republican officials have rejected his accusations. and as mac next guest - trump no longer running a political campaign he's running a disinformation campaign. >> now america is known all throughout the world as occupied america. they call it occupied we are being occupied by a criminal force. we are in an occupied state that refuses to let our great law enforcement professionals to do the job they so dearly want to do.

>> politico reports even diehard trump backers are worried about the long-term impact of these lies. joining us now is msnbc political analyst and disinformation expert - the author of how to lose the information war. good morning. >> nina i watched the sound of the ex-president standing next to the image and i am reminded how he weapon ices anomalies in order to smear millions of innocent people the danger that poses uniquely to that community. talk to me about the danger of donald trump spreading disinformation in this election, yes. but, as a prelude to what would be a second term. >> we have seen a pattern of behavior from the former president that is frankly terrifying. he is keeping people from

getting their help from fema. he is spreading things about health disinformation and making sure people are scared of their own neighbors in places like aurora, colorado. this is not just about winning an election anymore it is about pitting americans against one another. making us less safe and less prosperous and that should terrify every american voter. >> former president barack obama put this the best this week can we play him in pittsburgh thursday talking about this very issue? >> now, the people of florida are dealing with another devastating storm. and i want you to watch what happens over the next few days just like the last time. you will have leaders who try to help and then, you have a guy will just lie about it to score political points and this has consequences. people are afraid and they have lost everything and they are trying to figure out how do i apply for help.

some of them may be discouraged from getting the help they need. the idea of intentionally trying to deceive people in their most desperate and vulnerable moments my question is when did it become okay? >> we, as americans often times talk about misinformation affecting low information voters or people maybe they just don't know any better. i know a lot of people very smart folks who fell for the belief there were only $750 fema was providing people who have been affected by the hurricanes. we all know that that is not true but when the president of

the united states of america has to stand up repeatedly this week and say these are lies stop it i do not know why donald trump is doing this and then you have to press asking are you calling donald trump he is like no i am not calling him. there are many things that play here. very smart people are falling for this misinformation. >> i know why donald trump does it. those of us at the table for about a decade have been trying to figure out why donald trump lies so deeply so often so much beyond the boundaries of even usual politicians and politics which you have been involved in. it is not just spin a life the other guy had a bad vote and he mischaracterizes it and i am great i have done all of this stuff. what he has been doing is the essence of disinformation. he is trying to change how millions of americans perceive reality. he wants to scare them and he

puts up false narratives time and time again whether it is about the legal migrants of haiti or what is happening with fema whether it is schools performing transition operations that do not happen. whether it is democratic states executing babies after they are born. you cannot cross the street without getting assaulted or mugged these days he just said everybody in the world talks about occupied america. nobody in the world talks about occupied america it is not a thing. but he keeps promoting these false narratives to create a metanarratives the country is a hellhole impaled by barbarians who tend to be people of color. and this is actually treated purposely by democrats joe biden and kamala harris. the only person i can save anyone is donald trump is lying to create a false reality and what you start to do that, everything is an opportunity.

when fema and the hurricane comes along that is another opportunity to promote this false reality. he is not going to stop and barack obama can try to call him out i think they should even be harder. i think they should just stare at him and say you are a liar. be that tough with him because if you do not cast him as a villain in this piece the firehose of lies will continue and continue and good people may be not so good people will believe some of this stuff because the bond has been forged. he has been successful in creating this false reality including the big lie going back to mexican rapist when he was first announced. in some ways, the genie is out of the bottle. >> you just laid out expertly how this operates. donald trump is a liar a serial liar's entire existence is

built upon these various lies i go back to the man says he is 215 pounds and you know he isn't. that is what i put on my drivers license. >> if you are lying about your own self lying to everybody else is easy. here is the deal. your organization reported on this this week. he has helped. there are other constituencies out there to david's point some of the bad actors not just believe it but i can perpetuate it. the american semite project has uncovered a global network of lightly automated accounts that exist to amplify russian propaganda and other divisive content. hundreds of accounts of the 1187 asap asp identified have evaded moderation and detection for years and in some cases, or

than a decade. there is a backfilling reinforcement of yes, the haitians are eating the dogs and cats or, fema is only going to give you $720 and that is it. talk about that combination impact on the narratives that we are seeing play out in this election. >> russia, china iran play in our weaknesses and vulnerabilities. donald trump is absolutely amplifying those. giving them an easy thing to keep pushing to polarize us further to make us more concentrated on what is going here at home so we are not looking at russia and china and iran are brought. they're just handing trump a victory and when we looked at these accounts we have been keeping an eye on them for a long time a note elon musk's has not taken them down despite them operating for so long. this week, of course they are

amplifying hurricane disinformation they are staying here is a chopper crashing this during aid here is the way fema is bungling all this stuff. fema is doing humans work an incredible job. they should not have to be doing it they are first responders meant to be dealing with emergency assistance. they have had to become disinformation experts and there was meant to be a bureau within dhs focusing on this that i was meant to lead. >> this is why nina should be employed today in the federal government. >> i would be happy to work for her. elon musk is not he is not just taking these things down he is the number one distant former after donald trump. he goes on tucker carlson hey elon musk you think you are a big free-speech guy come on msnbc talk to these guys talk to me he is out there

amplifying the fema stuff the migrant stuff and hundreds of millions of people it is him it is foxnews it is the gop that enables this. it is the entire conservative movement that says donald trump's misinformation is okay and they played into it. >> when the secretary transportation has to pick up the phone and call elon musk to tell him what he is saying is a lie and can he please stop it has gone too far. >> indeed and that is as it relates to governments i have a question about how it relates to the next 30 days or so. we often talk about how these campaigns are on an asymmetric playing field. donald trump is running a disinformation campaign so what is the antidote from the harris campaign and democrats we have all had these conversations we are talking to someone who has been exposed to disinformation they are trying to get out from

under that disinformation it is extraordinarily difficult. >> it is once the bond has been forged between donald trump and tens of millions of people i think the media over the last decade has done a terrible job of providing context and framing for donald trump you have given him too many - he says this but others say that and have not contextualized him as a grand disinformation list. i think whether it is barack obama, joe biden, kamala harris they need to pull out all the stops in accusing him of harming people with these lies. whether it is ohio or north carolina. and not beat around the bush. taking it to him and making him respond. do not respond to the lies, response to him.

david, nina thank you so much for being with us. next we will continue the conversation on the dangerous lies about her can relief efforts. efforts.

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president joe biden is set to visit florida sunday for at least 17 people are confirmed dead and the devastating aftermath of hurricane elton. milton made landfall as a category 3 storm wednesday siesta key, florida. nearly 2 million people are still without power and president joe biden says the estimates indicate there has been as much as $2 billion in damage. unix now is democratic congress women kathy castor of florida representing the tampa area which was definitely right

there in the middle of everything happening thank you for joining us. >> thank you for joining us tell us what is that you are hearing from your constituents about what they will need in order to recover and rebuild and also what they are hearing in the way of disinformation. >> thank you for checking in on the tampa bay area. we are grappling with a widespread catastrophe all along the west coast of florida. helene was over two weeks ago it flooded out hundreds of thousands of homes and businesses and now milton with this really harsh one two punch milton is letting out people who live along rivers. they are still cresting. continuous water rescues going on search and rescue. widespread power outages. it is difficult to get gas. also, i really appreciate shining a light on this. people need to go to disaster

assistance.gov. that will be hard because people do not have power but fema has been on the ground throughout. this is the largest mobilization of federal personnel to respond to helene and milton in recent history. i really appreciate the biden/harris administration being as forward leaning as possible and of course all of our local first responders and local communities have been fantastic in trying to save lives and save property. >> we are happy to see that things are coming back together. i have a dear friend who lives in tampa and have been worried about her and it is good to know that things are coming together. i was struck and really in this moment i hate to go there but i want to address it because it is part of the problem. i was struck by your governor

in most situations of catastrophe i think of our own governor here in maryland both hogan and now westmore in the midst of covid for hogan and the collapse of the key bridge in baltimore. they found a partnership with the federal government it was not an adversarial relationship here is what ron desantis has to say about fema and their assistance in your state. >> people have asked me about is fema going to do this. let me be clear in florida, we run the show fema is not running the show. we will utilize them to support some of the things we are doing but you will not see fema running amok in florida i know that has been on the internet that will not happen i am the sheriff that is in charge and we will make sure to protect you, do not worry about it. the mac this is my own editorial comment that is weak

leadership, fema running amok? fema does not run amok it helps people it is a first responder. i am the sheriff here? if you have to tell people that been maybe you are not so much in charge as you think you are. that is me because i have seen leadership in my state from a republican and democratic governor. congresswoman, how do you get things done if that is the attitude of the leadership in the state with respect to the help that is coming? >> i had not heard that statement i am shocked by it. all the way along, the state of florida and the emergency managers have thanked fema for providing so many robust resources in partnership with state and local committees. he is wrong. fema is already delivering financial aid into bank accounts and they were just days after helene.

go to disaster assistance.gov. now that president joe biden has approved the disaster declaration and help that governor desantis requested yesterday people can get the emergency aid they need. government cannot do it all and it is extraordinary to watch neighbor helping neighbor and it would be helpful if the governor would use his time to encourage everyone to continue to help each other and not spread misinformation. >> congresswoman, you tweeted friday about the damage specifically in st. petersburg, florida. assessing that damage. you assessed the damage on friday with the mayor and checked in a neighbors to let them know disaster assistance will be available. he went on to say stay strong we are in this together. can you talk to us about some of the conversations you have had with people down there?

as we opened this segment, there are so many people that are still without power. it is hot in many places. i am thinking of young children. older americans, floridians who, they have nowhere else to go. what if you heard from people? >> what i heard yesterday on the streets of st. petersburg in neighborhoods that were flooded out without power is they were scared. they did not know how they were going to afford to buy their groceries. these are very basic needs. schools are turned into shelters when we have these kinds of disasters. many of them are without power that means children have been out of school now for about two weeks. it looks pretty dicey they will get back into the school buildings next week. maybe i the end of next week. they need people and leaders that will help them not to be empathetic to steer them in the

right direction on aid to help rally our local nonprofit telling the gaps that government cannot provide. that is the focus right now. we are trying to get that information to them about fema assistance. disaster assistance.gov keeping track of every expense. if you have flood insurance or you are lucky enough to be able to afford property insurance in florida making those claims now keeping all of your records trying to take pictures. we will have assistance on the ground. fema has been on the ground they are going to have a very robust presence. please approach them and ask them how else they can be helped. >> i understand you are still in the eye of the storm and will be for a well dealing with recovery efforts but this incident, especially given the way it tampa. i was a floridian for a brief time my husband lived through andrew.

i think miami sort of has a sense of what these storms look like. different for tampa. i think tampa and these storms have forced us to reimagine climate resilience to think about this. not just an opportunity to rebuild but to rebuild with that resiliency in mind from your perch as a member of the u.s. congress, what will it take? >> you are absolutely right. i let the climate committee a few years ago for our climate action plan and many of the policies were included in the infrastructure law and inflation reduction act. we cannot, we were not able to adopt a lot of the resilience and adaptation policies we need to. we cannot rebuild in the same way. we have large-scale collapse of our water and wastewater systems. we will have to have a large investment in building those

new systems that can withstand some of the extreme weather risks. let's face it, the gulf of mexico and oceans are incredibly warm. the jet fuel for these storms to more rapidly intensify. they are larger when they do that so the impacts are more widespread. it is not just about the weather is about your wallet. that is why is it - it is exorbitant. property insurance, flood insurance, electric bills because of the so-called sunshine state has kept us hooked on gas for 75% of our electricity generation rather than moving to cleaner, cheaper energy that could be more resilient in bouncing back for disasters like this. >> congresswoman kathy castor of florida thank you so much for being with us this morning. morning. (♪♪) they need their lawn back fast, and you need scotts turf builder rapid grass.

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