velshi on the way with 24 days to the election harrison trump are on a campaign blitz. the real blitz from team trump is the onslaught of lies which have become alarmingly bold by trump standards. the campaign of lies is coming to define this. we discussed that with the texas democrat in harris-walz campaign co-chair jasmine crockett. a discussion with the award winner about his new book the message. he writes about how troops to the middle east and south carolina he was forced to grapple with questions about how our stories, our reporting, our narratives distort our realities. another hour of velshi starts right now. good morning. it is saturday october 12 with 24 days until election day the race has turned into a blitz. some of the biggest names in the democratic party are hitting the campaign trail to give kamala harris candidacy another boost of support.

at an event on thursday former president barack obama gave a speech in pittsburgh imploring pennsylvanians not to sit out this year's election. afterwards he stopped at a nearby campaign office where he spoke with staffers about the challenges of getting men, especially black men, to vote. that's a challenge harrison's running mate tim walz will be confronting head on in the final weeks of the race in hopes of closing the wide gender gap that could be a decisive factor. first lady jill biden will stop for harris today. former president bill clinton will rally in georgia on sunday and monday. donald trump has other plans. while harris and her surrogates are targeting swing states in these final weeks the republican nominee has added some unorthodox tops to his schedule. those include an event at the economic club of chicago next tuesday. a rally at madison square garden in new york city on october 27th. later the former president will be in coachella, a town located in

california. he held an event in colorado yesterday. all events in solidly blue states that trump lost by big margins in both 2016 and 2020 and is certain to lose again this year. why? why spend time during the last weeks of the presidential race in places where he isn't even competitive? the answer is simple, these are states he has disparaged throughout his political career and wants to use these places as backdrops for reprehensible and dangerous lies. he made that perfectly clear during his event in colorado yesterday, a city repeatedly mentioned by him during recent interviews and rallies. he claims without evidence that aurora, colorado has been taken over by migrants. vibrant migrants. he alleged aurora has become a war zone due to the influx of violent venezuelan prison gang members. that's just not true.

local officials, democratic and republican alike have debunked those lies over and over again. the republican mayor of aurora, colorado publicly offered to show trump our community and meet with our police chief for a briefing. the former president did not take the mayor up on his offer because the truth is not important to donald trump. it never has been. he didn't travel to aurora to see how immigration actually has or has not affected the community, he had no intention of speaking with officials of what resources they may need to combat whatever problems they may be facing. instead, trump uses the visit to turn up his anti-immigrant rhetoric, another notch. >> america is known all throughout the world as occupied america. we are being occupied by a criminal force. i will rescue aurora and every town that has been invaded and conquered. these towns have been conquered.

explain that to your governor, he doesn't have a clue. all the scum we have to deal with that hate our country, that's a bigger enemy than china and russia. >> the scum that hit our country. he's in the sort of lies and rhetoric that instill fear among migrant communities across the country because it makes them the target of violence but trump has shown less regard than normal for how his self-serving lies might actually harm other people. that's been the case over the past few weeks as he's continued to spread this information about hurricane relief efforts in states like north carolina and florida in order to score cheap political points. he's become more unhinged lying about many things probably false. he's shared misleading posts on his account to suggesting he's been endorsed by taylor swift and the ceo of j.p. morgan chase. taylor swift, one of the most well-known people on earth has endorsed harris.

as of today diamond has not made any endorsement in this year's presidential race. trump claimed yesterday i think obama will be voting for me because he doesn't like the fact molly harris is a low iq person. how about i just don't waste your time or mine explaining that barack obama is not going to be voting for donald trump? that post includes another one of his lies, the vice president was born quote mentally impaired. he's tried to make a scandal out of how 60 minutes edited its interview, an interview he chose to skip in part because the program refused to concede to his demand that they not fact check him. he insists he's leading the presidential race by a lot, another lie. on and on it goes. there is no end, no shame. it's no secret trump is a prolific liar but the barrage of lies, the velocity of lies he's been spewing recently should be

deeply concerning to every voter because it's a sign of how brazen and unrestrained and desperate he's become as election day approaches. if he wins another white house term it's only going to get worse. i'm joined by the democratic congresswoman jasmine crockett of texas, a member of house oversight and accountability committee and the house agriculture committee and a national co-chair of the harris- walz campaign. thank you for being with us this morning. donald trump recently appeared on the podcast and it was a short clip that caught attention. let's listen together. >> i have a hard time doing it to them. i'm basically a truthful person. >> pretty bad when your interviewer breaks up because he said something so ridiculous but i'm reminded of your speech at the dnc this summer in which you called donald trump avon did vial villain.

as scary as his rhetoric is there something ridiculous about him as a whole and people need to cut him down and not continue to give this power to light unchecked. >> yeah. i agree. i'm going to tell you, i agree with something that using your intro something trump said. he said we've got the cities and towns being overrun by gangs. i absolutely agree. guess what? it is the maga gain , they descended upon places such as springfield ohio. i disagree with the problems are. the problems are him and his minions, the problems aren't the people that have come to make our economy stronger, the people that have actually been able to help to continue to make sure we got out of the big hole that he put us in after covid-19 with his ineptness. yeah.

i agree there are problems in our communities but usually it is some white supremacist on the other side and he has yet to call them out. as it relates to him being a liar that's what it is. the problem is we have people that are absolutely listening to him and that is the scary part, even those people in need in north carolina or georgia or tennessee or whatever state they are in need they literally are harming themselves because he does not have the ability to tell the truth about what it takes to get help and he thinks it's going to help him in the campaign. at the end of the day you cannot say you are a leader when you are absolutely seeking to harm people and that's who he is. >> i was talking to tom nichols an hour ago and he says in a normal argument you're a lawyer and legislator so you know when you make an argument you usually have fact on your side and you try and debate or have

them understand they are not listening to facts. this doesn't work with donald trump folks because they are not looking for critical thinking and that's part of the problem. when he goes into the cities and says x is happening and the mayor of aurora says that's not true what do you do? >> you know, i don't know. i'll tell people they need to vote. go vote. we don't need this type of action. he decided to go into detroit and talk noise to detroit and detroit. detroit, wake up. he does not like you. make sure you go out and show him who you are by showing up for the walls harris ticket. the fact he's going to all these democratically-controlled states, the states we know he has no ability to win and the only thing i can say is look at who is working for your vote and

that should be worth something. we are busting our butts until november 6th trying to make sure we talk to as many people as we can, trying to be as transparent about moving this country forward and why we don't want to go back and why this guy and his team and project 2025 are so harmful not just for black folk, not just for latino folk, not just for muslims, not just for asians, not for hispanics, for everybody. we decided we are going to make sure we tell as much truth to as many people as will listen to it and for the rest of the folk the only thing i can hope is donald trump will be out of our way soon and he will lose his final election and we will be done with him running for president. >> you're talking about getting people out to vote. it's not that there can be a lot of people in america truly undecided, it's a matter of motivating and moving people to get out and actually vote.

there are some issues, there are some groups or portions of groups that are still not feeling that motivation. who is movable and how do you move them? >> i think young people are the most movable we have. when you look at the house we were supposed to have the red wave. that was mostly because of young people. i think they are the easiest to move because they absolutely want to see action on climate change, they want movement as it relates to guns in this country, they want to make sure the reproductive access is preserved and to be perfectly honest this is a group of folk that want to have relief as it relates to the educational burden that they are enduring now with student loans. there's only one team that has conversations around these things. we know the cost of housing is very expensive, we have heard this from young people wanting to be able to buy new homes but we know we have a plan. it would allow you to have

$20,000 worth of down payment assistance if you want to move into that first-time home. i think that young people are really going to be the key. that's why you will see me at any concert, don't let me on stage. i am showing up where they are. i want to be on the college campuses because honestly we should all be fighting for their future because when you look at people like me and you unfortunately or fortunately have of our life has passed us by. we are fighting for the future of this country, we are fighting for in america that recognizes them, appreciates them and will do what needs to be done so they can prosper. that's why i think they are the key. >> jasmine crockett shows up i'm voting. thank you for being with us this morning. the national co-chair of the harris-walz campaign. still ahead, post row prosecutions. hundreds across the country have been criminalized because of their pregnancies.

another concept of indiscriminate abortion bans in america. we have a newly unearthed report. how the stories we tell and questions we ask or don't ask shape our realities. the best-selling author ta- nehisi coates will discuss his new book the message. what the biggest companies deliver is exceptional customer experience. what makes it possible is unmatched connectivity and 5g solutions from t-mobile for business. t-mobile connects 100,000 delta airlines employees. powers tractor supply stores nationwide with reliable 5g business internet. and helps red bull revolutionize coverage of live events. this is how business goes further with t-mobile for business.

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turning to the crisis in the middle east the lebanese public health ministry says 60 people were killed there by israeli airstrikes in the last 24 hours. the israeli defense force says lebanon fired 30 projectiles into israel early this morning. some were intercepted. last night president joe biden said he is absolutely positively asking the israeli military to stop hitting u.n. peacekeepers. this after group of peacekeepers were attacked in southern lebanon on friday.

the lebanese prime minister called that a potential war crime. the idf said it's operating with great force in northern gaza. it issued evacuation orders for several neighborhoods in the area. in the last 24 hours at least 49 people have been killed in gaza according to the health ministry. the world food program released a statement saying no food has reached northern gaza since october 1st warning that the area is officially at risk of famine. joining us from tel aviv is danielle. good morning or good afternoon to you. the other thing closely watched in the region is this potential and possibly likely israeli response to iran's attacks. tell me about all of this and how it's playing out. >> reporter: good evening from tel aviv where the sun is setting which meetings yom kippur is going to be coming to an end shortly. everybody around the region really knows it is a matter of

time before this israeli response will happen following the barrage of missiles by iran on october 1st. according to two diplomats in the region iran has been warning arab states in the gulf including saudi arabia not to allow israel to use their airspace in any retaliatory strike. if they did, iran would consider those country participants in the war. analysts believe it is possible israel will go straight there iraq and syria despite their warnings to go straight for iran but we will see how it all plays out. it depends what those targets will be. according to u.s. officials it is unlikely or they don't believe that israel will target nuclear facilities. if they did keep in mind some facilities are buried under 100 feet of rock. israel would need washington's help. as one expert put it to me you would have to convince washington to drop one of the

deadliest no nuclear bombs on those sites and it doesn't appear as though washington is very keen on that. the thinking is the united states or israel will go after iranian military energy facilities. possibly missile production and storage sites essentially stripping iran's ability to replicate the attack it conducted on the first of october. the u.s. understands is not likely to provide direct military support to the operation. it is now a question of not if this is going to happen but when and exactly how hard is israel going to strike? depending on how hard it will likely determine the direction of this conflict. >> thank you for your reporting. coming up, the post roe world in which we live has criminalized women because of

their pregnancies. when we come back we talk about how this is having an effect on women. n. be the new iphone 16 pro with apple intelligence. wow phones are going to be flying to verizon. at verizon new and existing customers can get iphone 16 pro, and a new ipad all on us. only on verizon.

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>> vo: schedule free mobile service now at safelite.com. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ one thing you hear me say a lot on the show is abortion is healthcare. it is needed and used safely and routinely in both emergency and nonemergency situations to preserve the health, lives and livelihoods of women. we have seen what happens when it's banned. forced birth is dangerous, even deadly for women but there is a less talked about consequence of post roe america and that is the criminalization of pregnant women, all pregnant women. in much the same way we have seen all manner of postpartum women suffer dangerous health consequences at the hands of indiscriminate and cruel bands the legal consequences of criminalizing abortion are brought as well. you can

criminalize women's healthcare without criminalizing women. we are starting to see what that looks like. a new report reveals criminal prosecutions targeting pregnant women for their conduct during pregnancy surged to a record high in the year following the supreme court's ruling which overturned roe v wade. between june 2022 and june 2023 more than 200 pregnant people faced charges marking the highest number of such cases recorded in a single year going back to 1973 according to a report by the reproductive rights nonprofit organization pregnancy justice. this is not just women being prosecuted for abortion. this is been charge for behavior seen as endangering a pregnancy. the report links the rise in pregnancy related criminalization to the radical legal doctrine of fetal personhood, a central objective of the antiabortion movement and most abortion bans. fetal

personhood extends the legal definition of person to fetuses or embryos including in the context of the amendment which grants equal protection under law. once legal rights are granted to a fetus legal scrutiny can extend far beyond antiabortion laws enabling the surveillance of pregnant women behavior from the moment of conception. this has an impact not only on those seeking abortions but women undergoing ivf, women experiencing miscarriages or dealing with health complications that threaten the pregnancy. and alabama, oklahoma and south carolina states were fetal personhood pregnant women faced more prosecutions. in fact most documented in the report did not actually involve abortion at all. of the 200 cases only one was prosecuted under a law specifically meant to criminalize abortion. the others involved statutes related to child abuse, neglect or endangerment which treated embryo or fetus as a person with legal rights that compete with those of the pregnant

person. the report notes prosecutors often don't need to prove any actual harm occurred to the fetus, they have to demonstrate a woman posed some risk to her own pregnancy. that includes the case of a 23- year-old south carolina women who miscarried in june of 2023. after miscarrying she was arrested and charged with murder, homicide by child abuse. she spent 22 days in jail before being placed under house arrest and picked 20 years in prison. it was more than a year later she was cleared by a grand jury and told her case would not proceed to trial and that's what happens when you criminalize abortion. you criminalize pregnant women. the state has a controlling stake in every pregnant woman's body and every miscarriage is a potential prosecution. when jobs overturn the constitutional right to an abortion conservatives claim the issue was been returned to the states. you'll hear donald trump use

that line today. it was never about the states. antiabortion republicans demonstrated that again and again since roe was overturned pushing for states to comply with abortion bans surveilling women across state lines and criminalizing the mailing of abortion medication. if the goalpost seemed to have shifted it's because the fight was never about states rights. not even just about a nationwide abortion ban. the effort to grant fetuses more rights than the women carrying them signals a much broader and much more dangerous objective. it's about control over women's bodies. the report warns criminalization of pregnant women will continue especially after the election when republicans are less concerned over voter backlash. louisiana became the first state to categorize abortion pills as dangerous controlled substances threatening jail time or finds for anyone possessing them without a prescription.

according to the senior counsel and legal director of a nonprofit if when how quote people are afraid to even seek information. once a prosecutor decides they want to punish someone for ending the pregnancy they will find a way to do it. they will find a way that's going to fit". as long as a woman's reproductive health is tied to the u.s. criminal code america is becoming a country where pregnancy automatically marks a woman suspect and her womb effectively becomes estate property. for more on this i'm joined by mary ziegler, a historian at the university of california davis law school leading authority on the legal history of the abortion debate in america and the author of multiple books including the history of a national obsession. thank you for being with us. i think it's important to understand we need to separate what people's views are about abortion from this concept of criminalizing pregnancy, from this concept that a woman or someone who can have a child will be subject to different

laws than i will ever be for my entire life in america if we accept you can criminalize pregnancy. >> yeah. i think one of the things we have seen is this quest for fetal personhood has really fueled these prosecutions. the idea is to say we know the supreme court isn't ready to say that a fetus has constitutional rights but what we will do is build the case for execution by prosecution to say isn't it weird the law doesn't give embryos and fetuses constitutional rights when we can prosecute all of these women and pregnant people for what they've done? in a way we see a lot of people's lives being treated as collateral damage in this fight and that's going to accelerate i think over time. >> can you help me understand how the criminalization of pregnancy -- i'm using this term because the point is once you are pregnant you are potentially subject to the state getting involved with your body in a way i will never be for

any reproductive activity i undertake. how does this reflect on the goals of the antiabortion movement? >> i think it's about setting precedent. we saw when the antiabortion movement was attacking roe v wade it was plain the long game and shifting away over the course of decades before it went for that kind of fatal blow. the same is happening with fetal personhood. most don't expect the supreme court to issue a decision on fetal personhood in the next year. the idea is to find lots of other laws that treat fetuses and embryos as people and even to use other laws that don't say anything about abortion or anything about embryos where those laws are used to treat fetuses and embryos as people and that is designed to set precedent after president into conservative states to build a case for fetal personhood before the u.s. supreme court down the road. that might never work but in

the meantime is creating a lot of surveillance and criminalization and harm for pregnant people anyway. i think that is the devastating part of this even if we never get to u.s. supreme court decision on fetal personhood a lot of harm will of been done. >> the implications of thinking about, discussing, working toward fetal personhood laws whether they happen or not has an impact on women who are undergoing ivf were facing pregnancy complications or as we mentioned have miscarried. there are legal risks women face now regardless of whether fetal personhood becomes federal statute. >> absolutely. i think one thing we have seen in this report and aftermath those are reaching a larger number of women. historically the pregnancy justice report shows people most likely to be criminalize for pregnancy or affected by the fetal personhood fight in general are likely low income people but that is starting to

change. if you believe you need to establish fetal personhood and law and believe embryos are people you will try to restrict or criminalize ivf and that will affect a different group of people. if you believe miscarriages and stillbirths are potential homicides that is going to affect a number of people who have miscarriages or stillbirths unrelated to things like substance use which was a traditional basis for prosecution. it's a larger universe of people and that's going to continue as the trend. >> someone will say this case that i talked about is an outlier. is it? >> well, in the sense it is a homicide prosecution we have seen more of a focus on these child endangerment laws because the states he mentioned have laws specifically authorizing this kind of prosecution but one of the trends we are seeing is prosecutors reaching out for other laws not really about pregnancy to prosecute pregnant

people and so each case in a way is an outlier but when you look at the big picture and cement we see a trend of prosecutors looking for new ways to criminalize conduct related to pregnancy. the case is an example of that. >> i appreciate you being here. a law professor and historian at the university of california davis. still ahead, i speak with the generation defining writer about his new book the message and as we go to break here is a quick look at what tim walz was up to this morning. serving in his capacity as governor of minnesota he participated in the states 12th annual pheasant hunter opener in the town of sleepy eye. it supposed to mark the start of pheasant hunting season. walls was joined by internet influencers with whom he discussed the importance of conservation hunting and gun safety. velshi will be right back. ur lw to strengthen roots

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our right to reproductive health care is being stolen from us. i can't believe this is the world we live in, where we're losing the freedom to control our own bodies. we need your support now more than ever. go online, call, or scan this code, with your $19 monthly gift. and we'll send you this "care. no matter what" t-shirt. it is your right to have safe health care. that's it. go online, call, or scan right now.

for those aren't yet caught up on season two of the book club podcast today is a great day to start. the episode from this past week is incredibly powerful. at first glance one might not think the two books that comprise this episode are that similar. one is william shakespeare classic romeo and juliet, a cornerstone of both the art of storytelling and broadly the english language. the other is all the rivers, a semiautobiographical love story between an israeli and palestinian student in new york city. together the two books critically examine the power of love, cultural demands and the harsh realities of family ties. they also explored the enduring power of love stories and what starcrossed lovers truly are. you can download and listen to the episode for free now wherever you get your podcast, scan the qr code if that sort of thing rocks your boat.

for access to all six episodes that have dropped the season you can subscribe to msnbc premium on apple podcast for early access to every episode the week before it drops and for every listening. we plan to keep reading as resistance every single week and we hope you will keep reading along with us. another thing to check out is episode two of msnbc new four part documentary series my generation. it takes an in-depth look at four distinct generations in america and how members of each have been shaped by the cultural and political events of their time. this weakens episode focuses on generation x narrated by the actor ethan hawke. it airs tonight at 9:00 p.m. eastern on msnbc. sometimes jonah wrestles with falling asleep...

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so the next time there's a power outage, your home powers up. power your life with generac. call or go online to request your free quote today. in his new book called the message ta-nehisi coates visits jerusalem's old city holy land for , christians and muslims alike home of the western wall, site of the temple built by the biblical king solomon and the spot muslims believe the prophet mohammed ascended to heaven. with israeli guides he passes to the old city through the jaffa gate where most non- muslim terrorists will enter. after a look at his passport he's let through. on another visit this time as a guest of the palestinian festival of literature he and

his group are held up by guards for reasons unclear at the lions gate where most muslims enter the old city. waiting for 45 minutes outside the walls as tourists streamed in and out coates couldn't help but see hints of america area no justifications were given, no questions asked him and no instructions offered. the soldiers stood there with their enormous guns blocking the way. i could not quite put words to what i was seeing but watching those soldiers stand there and steal our time, the sun glinting off their shades like georgia sheriffs, i could feel the lens of my mind curving to refract the blur of new and strange events.". new and strange but in some ways all too similar. coates resistance the urge to everything he sees to what he already knows about america's past, but it is all there. quote it's true that jim crow was the first thing that came to mind, if only because jim crow is a phrase that connotes an injustice, a sorting of human beings, the awarding and stripping of the rights of a population. certainly that was some part of what i saw in jerusalem.

". it was everywhere he looked even on rooftops. contraptions harvesting rainwater in the west bank, water from the sky illegal for palestinians because they must apply for permits which are almost never given in order to simply gather water from the sky. spell out the injustice in the system, "on seeing these cisterns it occurred to me that israel had advanced beyond the jim crow south and segregated not just the pools and fountains but the water itself. and more, it occurred to me there was still one place on the planet -- under american patronage, that assembled the world my parents were born into" in the book the message coates also described visiting africa for the first time touching down , coates could feel the land asking him what took you so long? coates had already been there in a way . he learns that when a young woman tells him he's

working on a dissertation based on his books. it leaves him and all, "there i was on the other side, among family divided from each other by centuries. i had come back. but my own writing had gotten there first." that's why coates refers to his books as his children. they live their own lives, affect readers in a unique way. that's why he, we, us must be careful and daring in the stories we tell. stories affect the way people think. if politics are the art of the possible its words and stories that expand what's possible. coates writes "the cradle of material change is in our imagination and ideas. and whereas white supremacy, like any other status quo, can default to the cliched claims and excuses for the world as it is we have the burden of crafting new language and stories that allow people to imagine that new policies are possible."

ta-nehisi coates is with me here in studio and will join me right after the break.

joining me now is the new york times best-selling author ta-nehisi coates the chair of the english department at howard university, the author

of numerous books including the very latest which is titled the message. welcome. we have been missing each other a little bit over the last couple weeks. you've had a very interesting rollout to this book in which you have written about things you have observed and the impact they had on you and south carolina, and africa and then in the middle east. that has not gone over well with everyone particularly the middle east part. you observed you thought there was a fundamental unfairness with the way palestinians are treated and got a lot of pushback. what did you see that triggered pushback? what is the part you think people are not happy hearing? >> for my own sanity and health i've been taking -- i resolved to take a media fast with the message. i mostly hear things secondhand from other people. with that in mind i just think that two

things are really hard to accept. one that a group of people could endorse centuries of oppression, genocide, industrialized genocide as the kind of climax of that oppression and that a group who is cleared themselves inheritors of their legacy and legitimately are the inheritors of that legacy would then go on and create a system of apartheid which america, at least in its popular narrative, claims to reject but is in fact funding. i think that is a fundamentally difficult message to accept. >> you went to a few places in the middle east and one place he went to as i have you at a similar experience i want to read from your book where you said the city's most visible feature was its variety of checkpoints. some were soldiers lingering around other dates with metal turnstiles as we approached one i watched two palestinian

schoolchildren being stopped by a soldier and directed back down the street. when it was our turn one by one we approached, they checked our passports and allowed us to proceed. they stop and interrogate according to their whim. later that day i walked out to buy goods from a shopkeeper but before i could get there a soldier walked up from a check point, block my path and asked me to stake my religion. he looked skeptically when i told him i did not have one and asked for my parents religion. when i told him they were not religious either he rolled his eyes and asked about my grandparents. when i told him they were christian he allowed me to pass. have ron is that place. if you are muslim or palestinian somebody could walk down that road and most will have to go down another road. i've seen it and experienced it. >> it is the intensification of what the west bank is. i would argue what the israeli society is which is to say segregated. this runs across. what i really want to emphasize is people often talk about

palestinian israeli citizens, but they are second-class citizens, they don't have the same average rights for instance if they fall in love with somebody from the west bank say a jewish israeli has and they fall in love with somebody from wherever. there are whole communities in israel that have the right by law to discriminate against palestinian citizens for reasons of what they call custom or culture. we call that redlining in america, but redlining wasn't in federal law. we are supporting this. at the very same time we run around and talk about our great legacy of overcoming segregation, overcoming slavery. >> let's talk about this concept of message, this concept about using our words and language and the effect that can have on changing people both their mind and the way we do things. you use three distinct examples. the middle east is one and at

the moment the most controversial. what is the point you're making as it regards or relates to journalism, writing and expressing ideas? >> writing as a tool of power. sometimes we use it to liberate themselves and sometimes dehumanize other people. i think the reason why the second half of that book is so difficult to accept is because beneath it is the idea that american culture, american authors, american film, journalism, television has been complicit in dehumanizing otherwise pushing palestinians out of the frame of conception. thus even racing the idea of apartheid has nobody is there. the land without people for a land it actually has a much deeper meaning because although we know that was obviously not true we can render it as those people are there. when they are, they are barbarians, savages. people who are not worthy of

being participants in any sort of civilized. >> when you look at the examples you cited, we can go back to slavery, the jim crow era, we can go back to apartheid itself. it depends on the dehumanization of the people you are pressing because as long as you don't think of them you are having a great conversation with trevor noah the other day in which when we talk about the numbers of dead it doesn't matter. these are not real people. once you start showing imagery of families and once you start talking to the survivors of the dead or starving children or the families of israeli hostages they are people and the lives it should be equal. >> there's two things that's going on i want to emphasize. israel does not allow reporters into gaza. >> you have to be escorted and supply your material. >> thank you for clarifying. large numbers of reporters are there are being killed.

i don't think that is accidental. i think people understand the need to control the flow of information. i think that is a significant force whenever you want to exercise power. when we had slavery it forbade the conversation around slavery on the house and senate floor. that's because people knew if you started talking about this stuff, if people dared to think of black people and enslaved black people as human beings we would have serious problems. the system needs information to be controlled, information to be restricted. >> that's happening right now. israel for a long time did allow voices but the offices in israel have been closed by the government. the information -- yeah. yeah. thank you for joining us. good to see you. ta-nehisi coates is the english department chair of howard

university , best-selling author of numerous books including his latest the message. before we go, a note for those in toronto and orlando. i return home this coming tuesday october 15th to take part in turner hall. i'll be in conversation with my old friend susan ormiston. we will be exactly 3 weeks out from the election on tuesday. i suspect we will have a lot to talk about. tickets are available at the royal conservatory website. later in the week on thursday october 17th i'll be in orlando at the glidewell innovation center for discussion about the role we must all play in the fight to preserve democracy. this is a now conversation, not a sometime conversation. tickets are available on event bright and i hope we get a chance to meet at one event. thank you for watching. you can catch me back here tomorrow morning from 10:00 a.m. to noon eastern and don't

forget velshi is available as a podcast. follow and listen for free wherever you get your podcast and find our content on youtube at msnbc.com. stay right where you are. the katie phang show starts right now. i'm katie phang live from telemundo studios in miami, florida and here's the week that was. >> hurricane milton slamming into florida's gulf coast overnight. a category 3 hurricane when it roared ashore near siesta key. >> they're offering people $750. >> for immediate needs. >> for the worst. she should be north carolina is bad. so bad. >> she was there today for three hours, i believe. >> it's bizarre. you've got to stop this. i mean they're being so un- american with the way they're talking about this stuff. former president trump, get