on this hour, the believability gap that remains 22 days until the election. why don't donald trump supporters believe is most extreme promises? elon musk's obsession with getting trump re-elected. in my conversation with the lebanese ambassador to the uk as israel escalates trikes on this country. let's do it. remember the story of the boy who cried wolf? is the grief able goes, a greek shepherd grows bored as he watches over the village sheep on a hillside. he repeatedly raises the alarm about a wolf encroaching on the

herd, even when there is no such threat. so when a wolf then does come, nobody actually believes the boy. it's not just a fable -- it's actually the story of our former president. donald trump's political career is paved by decades of crying wolf and telling lies. and now, with 22 days until the election, his campaign is probably leading into that identity, which is, of course, a huge problem. because we know some voters don't believe trump when he talks about his extreme policies. we hear it all the time from trump supporters. he is just saying that. he won't actually do it. he doesn't mean it. the republicans closing message in the home stretch of the 2024 campaign is, we lie to you. in fact, political lies are the campaign. that's very apparent when you look at what his movement has been doing, amplifying conspiracy theories and whipping up whirlwinds of life about the federal sponsor

hurricanes milton and helene as the death toll from the storms still rises. take a listen to some of the unfounded claims trump has parroted about the response in recent days. >> they are being very treated very badly and republican areas. they are not getting any water, they are not getting anything. >> they are stealing the fema money just like they stole it from a bank so they can give it to their illegal immigrants, and they want you to vote for them. this is the worst response in the history of hurricanes. they are offering them $750 to people whose homes have been washed away. and yet we send tens of billions of dollars to foreign countries that most people have never heard of. they are offering them 750 dollars when their homes have been destroyed. >> not what you just heard is true. none of it. fema had to set up a hurricane rumor response page on its website or the agency debunks

these types of lies. regional republican leaders have denounced trump's lies about the federal relief response, and even george's gop governor governor kemp sent the record straight on trump's claims that he was unable to reach president biden to talk to him about damage from hurricane helene. influencers and even maga fire brown's like my right taylor green are pushing the idea that it was planned and geo- engineered to target republicans. others like house speaker mike johnson have done their fair share of backing trump's claims. if the lies aren't bad enough, please remember that some of them are crafted to demonize immigrants. trump has said over and over again that the city of aurora, colorado, is a war zone overrun by venezuelan gangs, something both democrats and republicans have tried to fact check him on. you will remember how trump advanced the racist and unfounded lie that haitian immigrants are eating pets in springfield, ohio. in a short time ago at a rally in arizona, he attacked immigrants yet again. trump is going to lie, but he

is dead serious when it comes to what he will do if re-elected . as the atlantic breaks it down, much of what trump says is patently false, but is not bluffing when it comes to radically shifting the federal government and changing the fabric of american life, which brings us back to the disconnect that we must figure out in this country. something that one former gop staffer has done. the believability gap. taking what trump threatens to do, and largely discounting it. joining me now to discuss this and more, molly, a host of fast politics podcast and special correspondent for vanity fair. and rick wilson, cofounder of the lincoln project and author of the book running against the devil, a plot to save america from trump and the democrats from themselves. both of them here in the flesh in new york. what a treat. thank you so much for joining us. how do we end up here with this believability gap where a candidate is demonstrably lying 24/7, and it just completely

gets information siloed. his base has no idea that he is just lying to them. >> right. or they don't think he will do the worst stuff. they give him the benefit of the doubt. i think part of this is that he was a celebrity before -- a celebrity before he was a politician, and he continues to really be a celebrity. and so i think that there's a feeling like he says a lot of stuff, he shoots from the hip, but he's not really going to do deportation camps. though i want to say at the rnc, they were holding up signs that said, mass deportation now. i feel like when you print the signs, you're probably going to do it. >> i mean, he ultimately did the muslim ban. he did overturn roe v wade. he did try to build the wall. he didn't get mexico to pay for it, and everything he said he was going to do that the first time around the boat that was hyperbolic back in 2016, he did

at some point at least attempt to do it, if not for the fact that they are overturned or people fought back, but how do you explain this from kind of a political mind? >> that idea that has emerged in 2016, take trump seriously but not literally, was always wrong. it was always a mistake. in his first administration, he was clumsy and stupid the first year and a half, two years, but he never learned how to pull his power in an appropriate way. they never quite got the evil machine turned up to 11. they are now surrounded by people who you know he will have his administration. >> stephen miller. >> bannon. michael flynn. all these people that are out right now at rally saying, we are going to round up trump's opponents, were going to persecute them, and trump herself is saying this. if you don't care about the law, and you don't care about the constitution, you don't care about those institutions,

it can be unbound. especially because the supreme court just gave donald trump's get out of jail free forever card. abuse of power should come as no surprise if trump is elected. >> this actually has real-life consequences for people on the ground, the impact of these lives. these lies are impeding the response efforts. fema administrator says she has never seen this level of disinformation. and again, it's a low point for gop, but this has real-life consequences. the saddest part of this is that most of these people are in fact possibly republican voters or trump voters. he's lying to them, there being hurt by the lies, and as a result of that, they feel they are not getting the aid that they should be getting. >> the republican party is largely not just trump, right? at war with the federal government. they don't really wanted to survive. member, trump's proposal project 2025, which now he says has nothing to do with -- although many, many people work in his administration and we

are slated for his next administration, if there is a next administration. are involved with the writing of project 2025. it is a little suspect. but most of that is to sort of dissolve the federal government and fire most nonpartisan federal authorities and create a kind of politicized deep state, right? you know, the wet from the weather, they are going to get rid of whatever is left in the federal government, even the doj will be an arm of the trump campaign. >> how concerned are you that if donald trump wins, or the fact that his base is able to be manipulated the way that they have been, that he would be able to manipulate, as he said, the evil he wasn't able to do the first time around, this time around will be much easier? i think the ground has been soft and for him to come in and manipulate the entire system. >> you roughly 50 million americans who believe that donald trump won the 2020 election and they believed with

a firm conviction and a passion. it shows you there is a bifurcation of reality, and they are on the side where it is every lsd trip fantasy that comes out of trump's brain , and it's every alternate fact that trump wants to propagate. and they have now come to a point where their opposition to reality, this defiant disorder about reality, it's a point of pride for them. they like being part of the scam. they like being part of -- >> contrarians. >> i'm a free thinker. >> exactly. you can't lie to me. >> but a lot of them, they enjoy the feeling that they are going to put their finger in the eye of the rest of society. oh, screw your facts and your experts in your weather forecasts, because we know it's the jewish space laser steering the hurricane, or what have you. >> this is something i want to get your thoughts on, because you mentioned it about the fact that he, you know, talks about his extreme intentions. he and his allies and said that his threats to prosecute his rivals should be taken literally, but the new york

times notes that his president trump tried repeatedly to use the powers of the federal government to investigate, you know, has perceived enemies, he said he wanted to go after hillary clinton, he wanted to go after james comey, the fire james comey. the list is long of examples of trump wanting to go after. >> even in that sean hannity interview where he said you're not really go go out after critics. and he's like, yes, i can. no one even says that. he says enemies foreign and domestic, and especially those leftist. even the other day, he is planning to go after whatever that looks like. be that as protesters, maybe that is opinion columnist, we don't know. but he's definitely made his intentions very, very clear. he keeps doing that. he keeps saying the quiet part out loud. you know, he's even sort of running against fema in a certain way. and i mean, that is a bizarre closing message for a presidential campaign between two co-hurricanes.

>> if trump loses, is this going to be a signature of our politics going forward, that you're going to have this believability gap with his base regardless of who emerges in the republican party, and everything short of america saving itself from trump voting handout for good, is this damage fixable? >> as long as rupert murdoch keeps sucking air into his lungs, they are going to have a very strong network that is enforcing this alternate reality. as long as facebook still, you know, on the patriotic -- patriots for palin eagle forum facebook page that tells people that the weather is being steered by the cabal, these things are going to exist. as a right-wing media ecosystem and infrastructure now that is very, very hermetic. it is hard to get through. it's hard to get any message into that bubble. but the abuse of power stuff is something that, you know, i take personally, because we found out after the january 6th hearings that donald trump

asked bill barr -- and i'm not a bill barr fan by any means, but he said no. he asked bill barr to investigate the lincoln project. if you think that's the end of the story, it's not. he's going to do that to anybody. >> he said he wants to revoke the license of cbs, and go off to the new york times. >> he says will use both the military and the national guard to enforce these things. i mean, this is really a picture of a country that doesn't look like america at all. >> that's a scary thought. >> it is really a deeply troubling and concerning aspect of this. >> what is a harris campaign doing the final three weeks to drive this point home? i think sometimes we try to act like this is a normal campaign, we kind of try to talk about issues, we try to normalize. there is little bit of criticism earlier that tim walz will say things like, i agree there's common ground between me and jb vance what people are saying, no. there is nothing in common between any of these two sets

of candidates, and that should be crystallized at every single moment of every single day. >> the stuff, the joint chief of staff said he is a fascist. he didn't even say, he is -- >> it's always is fascist adjacent. >> right. he's an autocrat. you can't get better than that, right? she should be out there every day being like, you know, don't listen to me. listen to mark millie. mark millie is not some liberal. right? mark millie isn't like, we need to get free breakfast for kids. mark millie is like, i want american democracy to survive. trump's people will say, well, mark millie is this and that and a treasonous trader. but normal voters, people are sort of not in the call will go, oh, my god. i do think that is something. and remember, this campaign has $1 billion. so they can drive this message home.

>> and they should at every turn. will squeeze in a quick break and come back to you guys on the back end of it because we need to talk about elon musk, unfortunately. i hate to do that you guys coming up after the break. brea. you nailed it! you did it! with centrum silver. clinically proven to support memory in older adults.

>> remember when elon musk took over twitter and turned it into x and promised that the platform would be politically neutral and would not favor political candidate? well, that while came crumbling down last weekend when musk rallied for trump in butler, pennsylvania. he publicly endorsed trump, awkwardly jumping and declared himself dark maga, whatever that means. since that day, musk has been working overtime to help his new billionaire bro win the election. musk talks to trump multiple times a week and has effectively moved his base of operations to pennsylvania. based on the times reporting, musk has told confidence that

he believes the state is the linchpin to a trump victory. according to that same reporting, two people with knowledge of the events tell the times of the trump campaign coordinated with musk to prevent the circulation of links to hacked trump campaign information last month. x has since blocked all links incipit suspended the reporter's account. when asked for a comment by the times, musk did not respond. but there is perhaps something even more sinister going on here happening in planes site involving voters, voter data, and even a cash incentive. last week, musk's pro trump america pac announced that it would offer $47 to those who successfully refer a registered swing state voter to sign a petition that supported the first and second amendments of the constitution. as musk posted to his more than 200 million followers, it is easy money. and to be clear, paying individuals directly to register to vote is illegal,

but america packs petition appears to skirt laws that forbid certain types of election related payments because it is paying referrers to registered voters instead. there's also an issue involving voter data. in august, cnbc reported that his america pac was promoting a site to help americans register to vote. if you live in a state that is not considered competitive, users are prompted to enter their email addresses and z.i.p. codes and are then directed to the voter registration page for their state or back to the original sign-up section. a much different experience however for users in swing states like pennsylvania or georgia. they are instead directed to a highly detailed form asking for personal information like home addresses and age. if users agree to submit all of that, the system does not steer them away voter registration page. instead, it shows them a thank you page. for obvious reasons,

his pack is now under investigation in at least two states, michigan and north carolina. in case this sounds familiar to you, a right-wing operative using social media to target information from voters, you might remember the cambridge analytical scandal where the personal data of millions of facebook users were collected without consent to be used for political advertising. the scandal prompted a massive backlash against facebook which gained support from one notable figure. of course, elon musk responded to the scandal by deleting the invisible facebook pages for two of his companies, tesla and spacex. my paddle is back to discuss the billionaires influence on american politics, next. ican p. y jardiance ♪♪ ♪♪ at each day's staaart. ♪♪ ♪♪ as time went on it was easy to seeee, ♪♪ ♪♪ i'm lowering my a1c! ♪♪ jardiance works twenty-four seven in your body to flush out some sugar. and for adults with type 2 diabetes and known heart disease, jardiance can lower the risk of cardiovascular death, too.

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supporting the first and second amendment. 47 bucks, because he's going to be the 47th president. >> subtle. so creative, that guy. >> elon musk, so creative. what you make of this whole scheme? >> is it legal? >> it is illegal to pay voters to vote. it's not illegal to do this referral thing. however, it is the most room goldberg redneck engineering to persuade voters, because you have to pay someone to refer a voter and they have to not be invalid as a voter. they have to be registered to vote. they have to be then persuaded, then motivated to go out and either go early or actually go vote on election day. this is like a five-step process. for $47. with a $47 is opening the bid. everything else you do after that, you go persuade them. he's probably going to spend the hundred 50 bucks a vote for trump. can he do that? sure.

within the whole thing is just this complete room goldberg contraption, and apparently it's being run by a lot of the ron desantis consultant, which were so very effective. >> yeah, happy to see that. >> at least they are busy. >> but is based on a larger problem, this notion that you can incentivize people with money. again, it kind of undercuts the motivation of republican voters. he's not doing it on conviction. he's not trying to do it on, like, the promise of what trump is there to offer. he's basically saying, i'm going to give you $47 if you get this done. >> also, let's remember that a lot of the billionaires and millionaires that are supporting donald trump are doing it because the trump tax cut expire in 2025, right? this is not exactly like -- this is not altruism. this is saving money. >> the irony and the hypocrisy

is that elon musk is always -- and certainly republicans are always promoting about how democrats are interfering in the election and everything is some kind of, like, in-kind contribution whoever to kamala harris or the vice president, which, this is just blatantly interfering in the election. >> elon musk, this guy could've been a beloved american figure if you just put rockets and electric cars out and got himself out of the crazy of this. he's really taken the trump red pill in a way that has made him -- you've now seen a lot more of who elon is, and i think that for a guy who basically lives off government subsidies, this was not the best strategic approach. he is very smart, but is narrowly smart. this is not his thing. >> let me ask you about mary trump this morning, estranged niece of donald trump putting out a scathing technique of musk's growing influence on trump, saying he is basically donald's new owner. and when you think about how

donald trump over the years has allegedly been at the mercy of foreign governments that have more or less bribed their way or ingratiated themselves into his sphere of influence, you have -- you know, elon musk is just doing it out in the open. >> sure. >> i still think the trump has definitely had these kind of people before. he is never loyal to anyone, so i'm not convinced that this is a great investment for elon, i think elon just decided that he would get more, right? i mean, a.i. is coming up. there's going to be -- he hopes that the trump becomes president, there will be no regulation and he can sort of do whatever he wants of a.i. and tac and sort of, you know, do more with that. >> the guy is right now putting himself into the middle of american politics in a way -- by owning twitter, that is the most significant -- the super pack thing is noise. the ownership of twitter and putting this in court meeting

directly with the trump campaign which, i know this is a charming and old-fashioned thought. that is illegal. there's a federal law about that. you can't do that. but you know, this is a guy who is using twitter now as a platform to mainstream all this miss information, such as a hurricane misinformation we talked about earlier. it also to try this at the states that the election, venezuelan gangs, eating cats. he's got his thumb very heavily on the scale. he owns it. but the role he is playing now -- you want to talk about an in- kind contribution, that 44 billion is starting to be a pretty big contribution. >> and trump has taken notice of it. me play for you what he said about his transactional relationship with dusk. watch. >> so he will be in the cabinet? >> not in the cabinet. he doesn't want to be in the cabinet. he just wants to be in charge of cost-cutting. he will have a new position, secretary of cost-cutting.

elon wants to do that. >> secretary of cost-cutting, because he's done such a great job with x. >> you know, there is this fantasy that we saw in 2016 that a businessman can come in and fix the federal government and trim the waste. now, twitter works a lot of the time. sometimes it doesn't, right? >> when you're announcing a presidential live stream with elon musk or a q&a with -- >> exactly. i think he has streamlined some things. again, you know, he's not famous for paying workers. he's been pretty dicey with the unions, which, by the way, have not endorsed harris, which is insane if you think about what republicans have plan for unions. but, yeah. i think that trump is transactional with everyone, which is why a lot of very rich people like him. >> it would have made sense of he said donald trump was smart,

especially on a day like this, i would've made elon musk run nasa or the nasa administrator. you'd almost be like, maybe he knows what he's talking about. in reality, him being the secretary of cost-cutting. >> i been around for a while now, and every single campaign says we are going to eliminate abusive government and cut cost. everyone tries, and yet you never quite get there. the only president who actually had serious cost-cutting was bill clinton. >> in addition to campaigning himself with pennsylvania, you elon musk purportedly proposed taking a campaign bus tour across the state and knocking on doors himself. but please have a camera with him. elon musk knocking on peoples doors. >> nefarious south african bill and eric said i know pennsylvania, i lived there for three years when i was -- >> and you imagine elon musk in philadelphia knocking on someone's door, like, hi, i dark maga?

>> i want to talk to about my lord and savior, donald trump. >> it's unreal to imagine this is where we are is a state of american politics, and more worried about the people behind the scenes were not as public as elon musk. those of the people that care me a little bit. that's who we should be worried about. it speaks to a bigger problem we have with how money can influence our politics. >> i think we end up hearing from trump a lot about how dangerous the immigrants are in our country. i would put -- i would put elon musk, rupert murdoch and a much higher category of danger than the average guy who is come here to work construction. >> a hard-working haitian immigrant in springfield, ohio. thank you to the both of you. greatly appreciated, as always. next up, i speak with the lebanese ambassador to the uk as israel escalates strikes on his country. his country. ultomiris is continuous symptom control, with improvement in activities of daily living. it is reduced muscle weakness.

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>> the lebanese ambassador to the uk about these developments and more. ambassador, thank you so much for being with us today. i know that residential buildings have been bombed. peacekeepers are being targeted. the destruction of southern lebanon's health services for the wounded as well are being damaged. with all of this in mind, it seems that israel is following the same playbook they followed in gaza.

do you see it that same way, or do you think something different is a play with lebanon? >> exactly as you said, it's the same that is been used for a year now in gaza, which is being used again in lebanon. targeting civilians, sparing no medical facilities, sparing no support teams, sparing no healthcare facilities. and brutalizing the population with war aims that are not clear. it is sometimes seeming delusional. so it's exactly the same gaza scenario in lebanon. >> you said in past interviews that israel has been violating u.n. resolution 2701 which at mandates that its forces can't be in the buffer zone for years before this conflict even started. israelis would point to the fact that has blood in the south of lebanon has also violated un security council resolutions by being on their

border. why have you emphasized this, and what does this have to do with israel's military actions that we are seeing now in lebanon? mark >> we have seen this as a way to look forward, a diplomatic solution to this conflict. we said that we would be ready to put resolution behind the united nations security resolution on the table. and for a very vigorous and efficient way, as long as the implementation and respectful resolution is symmetrical. israel has been violating this resolution since it was approved by the un security council in 2006. so the solution now for the conflict is to address all concerns, in an inclusive way and asymmetrical way, and spare the violence and the suffering that we are witnessing today in lebanon. >> israel of course says it is attacking lebanon to get rid of has ola, which is been firing rockets into israel since october 8th, heart of its

solidarity campaign with palestinians in gaza. your perspective, and what we have seen in gaza, what is wrong with this military strategy, even with them killing and other senior leaders of hezbollah? >> because it's not about hezbollah, it's about lebanon. it's a totally self-defeating strategy. they set their aims as wanting to bring back the 60,000 population to modern israel, which will not happen by coercion, which will not happen by force. it can happen and it can be guaranteed through this u.n. framework that we spoke about, and now, a new worrying development, they are targeting peacekeepers in south lebanon, which makes you think about the real war aims, which is to get threat, and they seen it even, they want to inflict a strategic change to the paradigm, and lebanon and the region. this is totally destabilizing,

and this is totally delusional. what's on the table is security resolution 1701, and it will remain on the table as long as the conflict goes. so let's cut it short now and address all concerns. >> as you mentioned, there's calls from the u.s., special envoy, others who are calling for this moment to be a dynamic or paradigm shift in lebanon to elect a new president, to bring national unity, and to get rid of hezbollah. you are saying that will not happen through these military means, right? >> it will not happen by coercion. i'm afraid it will lead to the opposite direction. subsequent internal lebanese dynamics could take place, but this is totally irrelevant to the israeli aggression against lebanon which could lead to the opposite outcome.

>> a few weeks ago, you said a ground invasion would lead to a doomsday type a regional war. what are your hopes for the next couple of weeks? do you expect this war to widen further? we know that there is an attack today on israel, the israeli military came from lebanon and were anticipating a possible israeli strike on iran. what you see the next couple of weeks playing out like? >> that's what we always said. violence begets violence and war begets war. we should reverse this trend and start looking for the thematic solutions. whether in gaza, whether it's a cease-fire plan on the table, and israel has been talking, and we think that moving the conflict towards lebanon is a way to deflect that tension from the quagmire in gaza. and now, moving the conflict elsewhere in the region is also another way of deflecting attention on the conflict in lebanon.

this trend of moving the goal post to seek further destabilization is totally unhelpful. start seriously looking for diplomatic solutions. >> i know that lebanon obviously has diplomatic relations with many of the countries that are providing the weapons that israel is using to attack lebanon right now. what kind of support are you getting is a country from your allies were also supplying israel with weapons that are causing all of this destruction? >> apart from humanitarian support, we are not getting anything in political solidarity. there was a very firm international position expressed at the margins of the general assembly of more than 15 nations, which asked for an immediate cease-fire. but the moment mr. netanyahu arrived to new york, he chose a totally

different path. so today, it's against the international community. not only is it against lebanon. having said this, we hope that the nations that are voting for a cease-fire, they exert pressure on israel, because this behavior is totally destabilizing, and it's opening a pandora's box in the region that no one wants. already, the world has gaza on its conscience. no need to have another gaza and lebanon. >> lebanese ambassador. thank you so much for your time. i greatly appreciate it. >> thank you. >> after a quick break, i speak with a poet and scholar whose new work is helping show the world the horrific cost of war on gaza's children. aza's child

poet and scholar who founded

gaza's first english-language library has been documenting he wrote a recent op-ed for the new york times called gaza schools are for learning, not for dying. he described the moment he learned that his most talented student was killed where israel had carried out airstrikes. he had won a short story competition and he wished that one day, he would study in the united states. he wrote, how can a teacher, me or anyone else, return and pretend the same zones have not been places of death and suffering? how can trauma be treated when it's never ended? in gaza, there's no posttraumatic stress because there is never a time without trauma. it was already an environment filled with chronic traumatic stress disorder before this war. after this year, the trauma will grip generations to come. a new book coming out on sunday, eight collection of poems called forest of noise.

it's always good to have you back on the show. i know it's never easy to connect by phone with family in gaza, but first, how is your family and your loved ones doing i come in gaza? >> thank you so much, ayman. since israel imposed a military siege in the northern parts of gaza for my father, and my siblings with their children have been trapped in the northern part of the gulf. yesterday, i was able to get in touch with my sister, the mother of three children. the youngest is two years old. she sent me some waste materials, and i still have them. while she was speaking, i could hear the bullets from the attacks, and even the sound of the tanks advancing where she is with her husband and three children. and just for summer to end. while separating gaza city from the northern part, from north gaza. so north gaza, what israel did

was separating gaza city, where my father and two of my siblings and their children moved to, now unable to return to north gaza. >> you also been documenting this war on social media, retreating use updates i'm reposting live videos of the violence of the devastation. and one post, you write, if only you saw our children beheaded and disfigured for a year as your children, this wouldn't continue like this. but many in the world are insensitive and lacking in humanity. what has been happening especially to children, to newborns, will not create peace in this world.

you think they been so dehumanized that the world does not relate to them? >> 100%. our people in palestine, i know that the world is seeing palestinians as inhuman, and i can see this in the fact that no one, no official in the world, not from american, they visited gaza in the past year. how many times the president biden visit israel? how many times did he visit before that? how many times did anthony blink and visit gaza? how many times the president biden visit gaza? why is not anyone allowed to visit gaza to see what is really happening? just a few minutes ago, they

attacked the area surrounding the hospital. it's not happening for the first time. so they really did see people in gaza as human beings, they would've come to visit gaza and ask for a cease-fire. to see their suffering. israel keeps saying that these are lies. it's not 40,000 people were killed. i'm talking to you as someone who survived the genocide. the first cousins, two of them with their husbands and their children. i am just one person i lost all that. if you go to gaza and meet other people, some people lost 100 members of their family as they have bigger families. they were treated as human beings, this would not continue until today. and it would not happen in the same place. >> yeah, there's no one in gaza

who has not been affected by this war that has taken place there for more than a year now. i want to ask you about your writing, because i think a lot of people are wondering what they can do right now with the frustration that they have been going through in the streets, protesting and trying to demand the change in policy. you have a new book of poems called forest of noise with poems written both before and since october 7th and a blake postcard you write about today's date, october 13th, as the anniversary of when your brother passed away in 2016. you write about the fact that cemeteries are being destroyed across gaza. and you talk about the sadness of grieving a loss and the importance of properly honoring them in death? people right now are not even able to do that. >> i told you, i lost 21 members of my family. my grandfather, the last grandfather had in my life for the past 23 years, lost his life because there is nowhere

for him to see where he's going. he died, and he was just 70 years old. i lost the last grandfather in 15 members of my family. i didn't see anyone of these people. i didn't see my two cousins their children and their husbands. i didn't say goodbye to them. so this loss is really immense. this is not really bring a good future for everyone in the world. they see us just as numbers, as breaking news. it just goes away when there's another piece of ukraine. we are not numbers. in my book, this tells everyone in the world that these people existed. what really upset me, what really frustrates me about people here in the west is that -- especially people who repeat whatever zionist say, they do

not see us as people who exist. and even after we are killed, we are denying our death. we are not acknowledged as people who have lives, and when we are killed, they say, oh, this is not -- i mean, not that many children were killed -- it's a lie. >> it was a difficult situation and indeed i hope it helps come to an end soon. i know it's very difficult, but i greatly appreciate you joining us this evening. the new book, forest of noise, is out tuesday. thank you for making time with us and be sure to catch ayman here. follow us on x and instagram. have a good night. night. that. i'm 65. and really smart later i'm 70-ish. consider an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan from unitedhealthcare. with this type of plan, you'll know upfront about how much your care costs.

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