that does it for me today, but we're working on a big show tomorrow night at 8:00 p.m. stacey abrams will join me. plus, i'm talk to chris wallace about his fascinating new book. for now, stay right where you are because there is much more news coming up on msnbc. on this hour of ammon, why don't donald trump supporters believe his most extreme promises?

and plus elon musk's reported obsession of getting trump elected as his pro trump pact offers a cash incentive. and my conversation with the lebanese ambassador. i'm alicia ayman mohyeldin, let's do it. remember the story of the boy who cried wolf, as the greek fable goes? a shepherd boy grows bored as he watches the sheep. to entertain himself, repeatedly raises the alarm about a wolf encroaching on the herd, even when there is no such threat. so when a wolf does come, no one actually believes the boy. it's not just a fable, best actually the story of our former president. if you really think about it, donald trump's political career is paveed by decades of crying wolf and telling lies. his campaign is proudly leaning into the identity, which is, of

course, a huge problem because we know some voters don't believe trump when he talks about his extreme policies. we hear it all the time from trump supporters. oh, he's just saying that. he won't actually do it. he doesn't mean it. as they note, republicans closing message in the home stretch of the 2024 campaign is we lie to you. in fact political lies are the campaign now. that's very apparent when you look at what trump and his maga movement have been doing. amplifying conspiracy theories, whipping up the whirlwind of lies about the federal response to hurricanes, milton and helene, as the death toll from those storms still rises. take a listen to some of the claims about the hurricane response in recent days. >> they have been treated very badly in the republican areas. they're not getting water. they're not getting anything. >> they stole the fema money just like they stole it from a bank to give it to their illegal immigrants that they

want to have vote for them this season. this is the worst response in the history of hurricanes. they're offering them $750 to people whose homes have been washed away. and yet we send tens of billions of dollars to foreign countries that most people have never heard of. they're offering them $750. >> none of what you just heard is true. none of it. fema had to set up a hurricane rumor page where the agency debunks these lies. and the trump's lies, even georgia's governor, brian kemp, set the record straight. he was unable to reach president biden to talk to him about damage from hurricane helene. gop influencers and magas are pushing the idea that hurricane milton was planned and

engineered to target republicans. others like mike johnson have done their fair sharing, backing trump's claims. if the lies are not bad enough. please remember some of them are set over and over again that it is a war zone. something the aurora city leaders, both democrats and republicans have tried to fact check him on. you'll remember how trump and vance spread the racist and unfounded lies that haitian imgrants are eating pets in springfield, ohio. a short time ago at a rallysin, he attacked immigrants yet again. he's dead serious about what he will do if reelected as they break it down, much of what trump says is false.

they dub the believability gap. taking what trump threatens to do and largely discounting it. joining me now to discuss had and more, molly, host of fast politics podcast, and rick wilson, cofounder of the lincoln project and author of the book, "running against the devil, the plot to save america from trump and the democrats from themselves." both of them here in the flesh in new york. what a treat. thank you guys so much for joining us. >> thanks. >> and how do we end up here with this believability gap where a candidate is lying 24/7, and it just completely gets information siloed, his base has no idea he's just lying to them? >> right, or they don't think he'll do the worse stuff, right? they give him the benefit of the doubt. look, i think a part of this is he was a celebrity before he was a politician, and he continues to really be a celebrity. and so i think there is a

feeling like he says a lot of stuff, he shoots from the hip, but he's not really going to do deportation camps. i want to say at the rnc, they were holding up signs that said mass deportation now. when you print the signs, you are probably going to do it. >> he ultimately did the muslim ban. he did overturn roe v. wade. he did try to build the wall. he didn't get mexico to pay for it. everything he said he would do the first time around, he did at some point at least attempt to do it, if not, for the fact the institutions were fought back. how do you explain this from a political mind? >> sure. that idea in 2016 of taking trump seriously, but not literally is always wrong and always a mistake. and in his first administration, he was clumsy, stupid the first year and a half, two years. they didn't understand the

power appropriately. covid hits, so they never quite got that evil machine turned up to a 10 or 11. they're surrounded by people you know who will have their administration. and the people. you know, that are out right now at rallies, saying we are going to round up trump's opponents and persecute him. trump, himself, is saying this. if you don't care about the law and you don't care about the institutions can be unbounded, especially because they just gave donald trump his get out of jail free forever card. abuse of power should come as no surprise if trump is reelected. >> let me share with you what fema has been saying, which has real life consequences for the people on the ground. for once, they warned these lies are impeding the response effort. she has never seen this level

of disinformation. and again, it's a low point, but the saddest part of this, they are republican voters or trump voters. they're being hurt by the lies. as a result of that, they feel they are not getting the aid they should be getting. >> yeah, i mean look, the republican party is largely not just trump, right, more with the federal government. remember, project 2025, which has nothing to do with many people who work in his administration, and slated for the next administration, if there is a next administration, are involved with the writing of project 2025, which is a little suspect. but most of that is to sort of dissolve the federal government, fire most non- partisan federal employees, and create a kind of politicized deep state, right? you know, the wet from the

weather. getting rid of noaa. even the doj will be in arm of the trump campaign. >> how concerned are you if donald trump wins and the fact he's able to manipulate in the way he has been, that you're able to manipulate the evil that he wasn't able to do this time around will be much easier? >> look. i think the ground has been softening for him. >> in a country where they believe donald trump won the 2020 election, and they believe it with compassion. it shows you where it is every fantasy that comes out of trump's brain. it's it every fact trump wants it. and they have now come to the point where their opposition to reality, the order about reality is a point of pride for them. they like being a part of the scam. they like being a part of it.

>> contrarians, that you cannot lie to me. >> the free thinker. >> they enjoy the feeling they will put their finger in the eye and the rest of society. screw your facts and your experts and your weather forecasts because we know it's the jewish space steering the hurricane or what have you. >> and let me read for you. this is something i want your thought on as you mentioned it. the fact he would talk about his extreme intentions. and he and his allies have said that the threats to the prosecutors shouldn't be taken literally. but the new york times, they note as trump tried repeatedly to use the powers of the federal government to investigate, you know, his perceived enemies. he wanted to go after hillary clinton. he wanted to go after james comey. he fired james comey. and the list is long of the examples of trump wanting to go after. >> yeah, even in that interview where he's like you're not really going to go after your

critics? yes, i am. no one says that. he'll say enemies, foreign and domestics, especially those. and even the other day, he said you know, the american, he's planning to go after whatever that looks like. maybe that's protesters. maybe that's opinion columnists. we don't know. but he's definitely made his intentions very, very clear. and i think, you know, he'll keep doing that. he keeps saying the quiet part out loud. you would think, i mean, he's even sort of running against fema in a certain way. i mean that is a bizarre closing message for a presidential campaign between two hurricanes. >> so i ask you if trump wins, let me ask you if trump loses, will this be a signature of our politics going forward that you'll have a believability gap where his base, regardless of who emerges with the republican party and everything short of america saving themselves by trump, voting them out for good. is this damage fixable? >> and look, as long as rupert murdoch keeps sucking air into

his lungs, they'll have a strong network that's enforcing this alternate reality, as long as facebook still, you know had, on the patriots for pay len, eagle forum, facebook page that will tell people, you know, the weather is being steered by the ball. these things are going to exist. there is a right wing media ecosystem and infrastructure that will be very, very hermedic. but the abuse of power stuff is something i take personally because we found out after the january 6 series that donald trump asked bill barr, i'm not a bill barr stand, but he said no. he asked him to investigate the lincoln project because we opposed him. if you think that's the end of the story, it's not. he'll do that to anybody. >> you said he will arrest the journalists. he wants to go after the new york times. >> and he's saying we will use both the military and the

national guard to enforce these things. i mean this is really a picture of a country that doesn't look like america at all. >> yeah. >> that's a scary thought. >> it is really a deeply troubling and concerning aspect. >> what is the harris campaign going to do in the final three weeks to drive this point home? i mean sometimes we would try to act like this is a normal campaign. we would kind of try to talk about issues. we would try to normalize. a little bit of criticism where they will say well, i agree with the common ground between me and j.d. vance when they are saying no, no, no. there is nothing common between any of these two sets of candidates. that should be crystallized at every single moment of every single day? >> yeah, i mean look, the millie stuff, they said the guy is a fascist. they didn't say that. >> his core. >> it's not like he's adjacent, but right to it. >> right. >> but no, that you can get better than that, right? she should be out there every

day being like, you know, don't listen to me. listen to mark. i mean he is not some liberal, right? and she not like we need to get free breakfast for kids. mark is like i want american democracy to survive. >> yeah. >> and trump's people, they will say well, he's this and that and the traitor. but the normal voters, people who are sort of not in that will go oh my god. like i do think that is something they could confirm. remember, this campaign has a billion dollars. they can drive this message home. >> and they should in every turn. please don't go anywhere. we'll squeeze in a quick break because we need to talk about elon musk, unfortunately. i hate to do it to you, but we have to. and calms the nerve down. and my patients say you know doc, it really works.

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remember when elon musk took over twitter and turned it into x and promised the platform would be politically neutral and would not favor political candidate? well that wall came crumbling down last weekend when musk rallied for butler, pennsylvania. he pubic willly endorsed trump awkwardly jumping, if you want to call it that, declaring himself dark maga, whatever that means. since that day, musk has been working overtime to help his new billionaire e bro win the election. according to the new york times, musk talks to trump

multiple times a weeks. based on his reporting, he told confidence he believes the state is the lynch pin to a victory. according to that same reporting, two people with knowledge of the events tell the times the trump campaign coordinated with musk to prevent the circulation of links to the reporter's publication of hack campaign trump information last month. and they suspended the reporter's account. when asked for a comment by the times, musk did not respond. this is voter data and cash incentive. last week, musk's pro trump pack announced they would offer $47 for those who would refer a registered swing state voter to support a petition for the first and second amendments of the constitution. as musk posted to the more than 200 million followers on x, it is easy money. to be clear, paying individuals

directly to register to vote is illegal. but america pacts petitions skirt laws to forbid election related payments because it's paying those to register voters instead. and there is also an issue involving voter data. in august, cnbc reported musk's america pact was promoting a site to help americans register to vote. if you live in a state that's not considered competitive, prompted to enter the e-mail addresses and zip codes that are directed to the voter registration page for their state or back to the original sign-up section. and a much different experience, however, for users in swing states like pennsylvania or georgia. and they are, instead, asking for personal information like home addresses, cell phone numbers, and age. if users agree to submit all of that, the system does not steer them to a voter registration page. instead it shows them a thank you page for obvious reasons,

musks' pact is under an investigation in at least two states. michigan or north carolina. in case this sounds familiar to you, a right wing operative, using social media to target information from voters, well, you might remember the cambridge analytica scan dad, where the personal data of millions of facebook users were collected without consent to be used for political advertising. the scandal prompted a mass backlash against facebook, which gained support from one notable figure. elon musk who responded to the scandal by deleting the facebook pages for two of his companies. tesla and spacex. my panel is back to discuss the billionaire's influence on america's politics next. but trelegy has shown me that there's still beauty and breath to be had. because with three medicines in one inhaler,

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just 22 days until the election, elon musk making sure trump gets elected. let's talk about the $47 for those who refer swing state

voters to sign the petition. in case it is not obvious, $47 because he wants them to be the 47 hadth president. and it is so creative. e elon musk, so creative. what do you make of the whole scheme? >> is it legal? i'm not a lawyer. >> so it is illegal to pay voters to vote, but it's not illegal to do this referral thing. however, it is the most red neck engineering way to persuade voters because you have to pay someone to refer you a voter. they have to not be invalid as a voter and register to vote. they have to then persuade it. they have to be motivated to go out and vote early or vote on election day. so this is like a five-step process for $47. and it is only the opening bid. everything else, you need to persuade them. they will probably spend $150 a vote for trump.

can he do that? sure. they could pop out more tesla stocks. but the whole thing is the contraption and it is being run by a bunch of the ron desantis consultants. >> oh man. >> and they were so very effective. >> and happy to see that. >> at least they're busy, but it will speak to the larger problem, the notion that they could incentivize people again. it will kind of undercut the motivation, right? they want to get these people to vote. they are not doing it on conviction. they are not trying to do it on the promise of what trump is there to offer. basically saying to you hey, i'll give you my $47 if you get this done. >> also, let's remember that a lot of the billionaires are doing it because of the trump tax cut that will expire in 2025, right? so this is not exactly like, you know, this is not doing that, but saving money. >> and that he is always,

certainly republicans, they are talking about how democrats are interfering with the election and it is some kind of an in- kind contribution from whoever kamala harris or the vice president, whereas this is just blatantly interfering in the election. >> and what i fear with elon musk, this guy could have been a beloved figure if he just built rockets and electric cars and got himself out of the craziness of this because he's really taking the trump red pill in a way that has made him, you've now seen a lot more of who he is. and i think for a guy who basically lives off the subsidies, this was not the best strategic approach. he's very smart, but he's narrowly smart. this is not his thing. >> right. let me ask you about it this morning. and the strange niece of donald trump, the critique of musk, growing influence on trump. saying he's basically donald's

new owner. when you think about how over the years, he's allegedly been at the mercy of the foreign governments that have more or less bribed their way into his influence, you know, elon musk, just doing it out in the open. >> sure. >> and i still think that trump has definitely had these kinds of people before. he's never loyal to anyone. so i'm not convinced this is a great investment for elon, but i think elon just decided that he would get more, right? i mean a is coming up. he hopes if trump becomes president, there will be no regulation, and he could sort of do whatever he wants with a and tech, and sort of do more with that. >> the guy is putting himself into the middle of american politics in a way by owning twitter. that's the most biggest super pact thing is noise. putting his thumb on the scale

for trump. coordinating directly with the trump campaign, which i know this is a charming and old fashion thought. that's illegal. but the federal law about that, you can't do that, but you know, this is a guy who is using twitter now as a platform to mainstream all the misinformation such as the hurricane, and also to try to set the stage that the election is about venezuelan gangs, eating cats. and very heavily on the scale with that private company. he owns it. but you want to talk about that contribution, that $44 billion is turning out to be a nice in- kind contribution. >> and trump has taken notice of it. let me play for you what he said about that relationship with musk. watch. >> and so he will be in that cabinet? >> he just wants to be in

charge of cost cutting, okay. he wants to do that. >> the secretary of cost cutting because he's done such a great job with x. >> i mean, there is a fantasy that we saw in 2016 that a businessman can come in and fix that government and trim the waste. and you know. >> unless you're announcing the live stream like he did with elon musk and that. >> exactly. >> so i think he has streamlined some things. again, he's not famous for paying workers. and he's been dicey with the unions, which by the way have not endorsed harris, which is in sane if you think about what they have planned for unions. and yeah, you know, i think that trump is transactional with everything, which is why they like them. >> and it would have made sense

if they will make it run nasa administrator and that it is actually a maybe, he knows what he's talking about. being the secretary of cost cutting. >> i don't know about you, but i've been around for a while. and they say we will eliminate fraud, abuse, government, and cut cost. and everyone tries, and yet you never quite get there. >> it was bill clinton. >> right. >> and there was an addition to campaigning himself in pennsylvania. you would have elon musk, proposed taking a campaign bus tour across the state and knocking on doors themselves. >> yes, have them do it. >> but please have a camera with him. knocking on the door. >> and the billionaire said i know pennsylvania. i lived there for three years when i was there. >> can you imagine them in philadelphia, knocking on their door saying hey.

>> and let's talk to you about donald trump. >> exactly. and it is unreal to imagine this is where we are, but nonetheless, i'm more worried about the people behind the scenes who are not as public. those are the people that scare me a little bit. and that is who we should be worried about, but speaks to a bigger problem that we have and how money could influence their politics. >> i think we'll end up hearing from the trump world a lot. how dangerous they are to our country. and yet i would put elon musk, rupert murdoch, and david sacks in that category of danger. >> yeah, a hard working haitian immigrant in springfield, ohio. and thank you to the both of you. greatly appreciate it as always. next up, i speak to the lebanese ambassador of u.k. as israel escalates strikes on his country. olute joy.

daddy's puppy. once we got on the farmer's dog he just attacks it, it's incredible. they're so tuned into you and they have such, such personality. being without a dog, i don't know, can't imagine it. [laughter]

tonight, the military tells

nbc news that they lost the army base in northern israel, killing at least four soldiers. and they said the results are severe and there are casualties, and they have full operational control of the situation. and today we learned they will send the defense system and troops to israel. this week they're continuing their attacks with a death toll reaching over 2,200 according to the health. air strikes are reaching further into the country, and towns are being completely destroyed. we're seeing them target the u.n. peacekeepers in the south. calling on the israeli military to stop strikes. earlier today, ordering the u.n. to remove them, which be many interpreted as a threat. a few hours later, the u.n. secretary general says they will remain in lebanon and cannot be targeted. a spokesperson added that attacks against the peacekeepers are in breach of

international law. and they may institute the war crime. and i spoke to the ambassador about these developments and more. ambassador, thank you so much for being here with us this evening. i know that towns have been bombed and they are being damaged. with all this in mind that it seems like they would follow the new playbook. do you see it that same way or do you think something different with that play on lebanon? >> it is exactly as you said, and it has been used for a year now on gaza, which is being used again in lebanon. and all good things, spelling no support teams and no facilities. and brutalizing the population

that are not clear and sometimes they are delusional. so it is the same one. >> you said israel has been violating the u.n. resolution, which will mandate they can not be in the buffer zone before the conflict started. they would point to the fact that they are being on their border. why have you emphasized this and what does this have to do with their actions that we're seeing now in lebanon? >> and we said this as a way to book forward the diplomatic solution to this conflict, as we said we would be ready to put the resolution, the united fashions security council on the table. and look at how to implement it in the deficient way as long as the implementation and the respect for that resolution as

symmetrical. israel has been violating this resolution since it was approved by the u.n. security council in 2006. and so for the conflict, it's to address all concerns in that inclusive way and symmetrical way. and spare the violence and the suffering that we are witnessing today and what is wrong with this strategy and with them killing the senior leader of hezbollah? >> and it is not about hezbollah, but about lebanon and that strategy, as they would set that as one thing to bring back the 60,000

population to northern israel, which will not happen, which will not happen by force and that it can happen and it can be guaranteed through this framework that we spoke about. and now a new learning development that they are targeting the peacekeepers and south lebanon, which will make you think about it to get rid of it. and they said that even. they want to inflict the strategic change to the paradigm and lebanon and the region. what's on the table is the illusion to remain on the table as long as that conflict will go, so let's talk about that now and start addressing all concerns. >> and as you mentioned, there are calls from the u.s., the special envoy and others who are calling for this moment to

be a dynamic or paradigm shift in lebanon to elect a new president to bring national unity to get rid of hezbollah. you're saying that will not happen through these means, right? >> and it will not happen by coercion, that it will lead to the opposite direction. and they could take place as this is totally irrelevant to the aggression against lebanon, that could lead to the opposite outcome. >> and a few weeks ago, sir, you said the ground invasion will lead to the doomsday type of regional war. what are your hopes for the next couple of weeks? do you expect them to widen further? we know there was an attack today on israel and they came from lebanon, where they were anticipating the possible strike on iran. what do you see the next couple of weeks playing out like? >> and that is what we always said that violence, they will be violence on board, and they will get on board, that we

should reverse this trend and start looking for diplomatic solutions. and in gaza, where there is a cease-fire plan on the table and israel has been blocking. we think that moving the conflict towards lebanon is a way to reflect attention from gaza. now moving the conflict elsewhere in the region is also another way of deflecting attention on the conflict for lebanon. so this trend will continue to move and shift the goalpost for the destabilization is totally unhelpful. i think the term is to reverse that and start seriously looking for the diplomatic solutions. >> sorry, let me ask you finally because i know they have diplomatic relations with many of the countries that are attacking lebanon right now. what kind of support are you

getting as a country from your allies who are also causing all the destruction? >> and apart from that support that we're not getting anything, the political solidarity that there was a very firm express on more than 15 nations, which will ask for the immediate cease-fire. but the moment mr. netanyahu arrived to new york, he rebuffed this plan and chose a totally different path. so today, it's israel against the international community. it is not only israel against lebanon. we hope the nations that are calling for the cease-fire, that they will exert to the pressure on israel because this pressure is totally destabilizing. and it is opening up the pandora's box in the region that no one wants. already the world has gaza on

their conscience. no need to have another gaza and lebanon and elsewhere. >> and thank you so much there for your time. i greatly appreciate it. >> thank you. thank you. after a quick break, we'll speak to the poet and the scholar whose new work is helping to show the world the horrific cost of war on gaza's children. oh! right in the temporal lobe! beat it, punks! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪

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poet and scholar who founded the first library has been documenting the suffering of palestinian children. he wrote an opt ed saying gaza schools are for learning, not for dying. and he learned the most talented student was killed where israel had carried out air strikes. he had won a short story competition and he wished one day he would study in the united states. and he wrote how could a

teacher return to teach children? and how can trauma be treated? and there is never a time without trauma. it was already an environment filled before this war. after this year, the trauma will grip generations to come. he has a new book that's coming out on tuesday. it's a collection of poems called forest of noise, and he joins me now. it's good to have you back on this show. i know it is never easy to connect by phone with family in gaza. but first, how is your family and your loved ones doing this evening? >> thank you so much. it's been a terrible thing for me. my father, and they have been trapped in the northern part. yesterday, i was able to get in

touch with my sister, and she sent me some voice messages. i still have them. while she was speaking, i could hear them. and even the sound of the tanks that are advancing, where she is with her husband and children. and while separating the gaza city from the northern part and from north gaza. and what israel did was separating gaza city where they would move to. and they are unable to return to north gaza, even though it is unable to reach into that house to get whatever they could find. >> you've been documenting this war on social media, retreating the news updates, reposting live videos of the violence and the devastation in one post

where you would write if only you saw our children disfigured for a year as your children, this wouldn't continue like this. but many in the world are carrying and lacking humanity. what has been happening especially to children will not create peace in this world. elaborate what you mean by that. do you think they will not see palestinians and the victims you describe as human? that they have been dehumanized that they will not relate to them? >> 100%. when i talk about that, i'm not talking about the people of the world and protesting the killing of our people in palestine. and i know that the world is seeing palestinians as unhuman. i can see this in the fact that no one, from around the world. they would visit gaza in the past year. how many times has biden

visited israel after october 7? how many times did he visit before? and now how many times did antony blinken visit gaza? and u how many times did president biden visit gaza? why is no one allowed to visit gaza and to see what is really happening and to see the families that are getting intense just a few moments ago, targeted in that area that's surrounding? it is not happening for the first time. we could see the video and people are on fire. and so if they really did see people, they would have come to visit gaza and see it and ask to meet with the people and see the suffering and that it is not 40,000 people who were killed.

i'm talking to someone that survived the genocide. and two of them with their husbands and their children. and i am just one person, and i lost all of that. if you go to gaza to meet other people, some people lost other members of their families because they have a bigger family. if they really see us as human beings, this will not continue until today. and that will not happen in the same place. >> yeah, there is no one in gaza who has not been affected by this war that has taken place there for more than a year now. i want to ask you about your writing because a lot of people are wondering what they can do right now with the frustration that they have been going to the streets, protesting, and trying to demand the change in policy. you have a new book called forest of noise with poems written both before and since october 7 in a blank postcard. you write about today's date, october 13, as the anniversary of when your brother passed

away in 2016. you write about the fact that cemeteries are being destroyed across gaza. can you talk about the sadness of grieving the loss and the importance of properly honoring them in death? people are not able to do that. >> i told you that i lost members of the family and that is the grandfather i would have in my life for the last23 years. lost his life because there were no electricity for him to see. he died, he died just 70 years old. i mean i lost the grandfather i had in my life. and i did not see any one of these people or my two cousins with their husband. i didn't say good-bye to them. and so this loss is really immense. this is not really bringing a good future for anyone in the world. and if this continues to happen day after day and the world doesn't see us as the human

being, but just as breaking news, you know, that will just go away when there is another piece of breaking news from ukraine. we are not numbers, and in my book, they will show even in the world that these people, they will exist. what's really upsetting me and what really frustrates me had about people here in the west is that especially people who repeat whatever they say. they do not see us as people that will exist. even after we're killed, they would deny our death, so we will not acknowledge people who have lives and that this is not correct. i mean not too many children were killed. it's a lie. >> i know it's a difficult situation, indeed hopefully it will come to an end soon. and i know it is very

difficult, but i appreciate you joining us. the new book, forest of noise is out on tuesday. thank you for making time for us. make sure to catch ayman back here every sunday. follow us on ayman msnbc. until we meet again, i'm ayman mohyeldin. have a good night. bounce back fast from heartburn with tums gummy bites, and love food back. (♪♪)

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dead heats, kamala harris and donald trump ramp up their messaging on the campaign trail as the