lean into. but i think what you are hearing from the black republican is that look, trump's economy, trump goes out and says like, did you feel better when i was in office, did you feel like you had more money in your pocket? certainly folks bring up this idea about these stimulus checks. sometimes refer to them as stimmies. during the pandemic that helped a lot of people. i think trump gets a lot of credit for not only just having his name on those stimulus checks that went out to people during the height of the pandemic but he gets credit for selling it as if it was his idea. now, democrats say that was not his idea, give me a break. congress had to pass this. we should be given credit. members of congress should be given credit for this. but i don't see democrats selling that message as directly as some republicans do. i think that is what he's speaking to. you feel better because there were policies that trump

highlighted that makes you feel like it was a better economy for black folks. >> i've got to leave it there. i'm over time. thank you very much. that's going to do it for me today. "deadline: white house" starts right now. hi, everyone. it is 4:00 here in new york. i'm alicia menendez in for nicolle wallace. 22 days to election day. no mysteries about how the republican presidential nominee will govern if he returns to the white house. day after day donald trump has been escalating the rhetoric, repeatedly threatening to jail his opponents, referring to them as criminals, openly musing about silencing any dissent. on sunday trump told fox news that the military should be deployed against the, quote, enemy within on election day. >> are you expecting chaos on election day? >> no. i don't -- not from the side that votes for trump. >> but i'm just wondering if these outside agitators were to start up on election day --

>> i think the bigger problem is the enemy from within. not even the people that have come in and -- destroying our country. by the way, totally destroying our country. the towns and villages. they're being inundated. but i don't think they're the problem in terms of election day. i think the bigger problem are the people from within. we have some very bad people, we have some sick people. radical left lunatics. and i think they're the -- it should be very easily handled by -- if necessary by national guard or if really necessary by the military. because they can't let that happen. >> it almost goes without saying at this point but four years ago it was not the left that sowed chaos in the election. it wasn't the biden campaign that tried to start a riot at the ballot counting center or spread lies that the election was stolen or whipped up a mob to storm the capitol with the national guard having to come in to quell the violence. but now in the friendly confines of fox news, same outlet i will remind you that had to pay 3/4 of a billion dollars for spreading baseless election

fraud lies, comes another claim put before the eyes of millions of his supporters, many of whom still doubt the integrity of the 2020 election, in weeks before people are done voting. trump is saying there could be chaos in this election. well, donald trump is not the president, has no power to call in the national guard in november. his comments, they are part of a pattern. the latest in a long series of unprecedented, norm-busting statements that happen all too often to ignore. susan glasser from the new yorker put it, "the enemy within. straight up language of dictators and tyrants. want to use the military on their own people." if it couldn't be any clearer that he was referring to his critics and political opponents as the enemy from within, here's trump from that same interview just a few minutes later. >> and the enemy from within in my opinion is more dangerous than china, russia and all these countries because if you have a smart president he can handle them pretty easily.

i got along great with all -- i handled them. but the thing that's tougher to handle are these lunatics that we have inside like adam schiff. >> it is the kind of rhetoric that led one person to describe trump as, quote, fascist to the core. that person? not a scholar or a democracy activist or a political opponent. it is someone who served under trump. former chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, general mark milley. in an upcoming book by journalist bob woodward milley said, "no one has ever been as dangerous to this country as donald trump." now, i realize he's a total fascist. he's the most dangerous person to this country. here's what former republican congresswoman liz cheney had to say about that on "meet the press." >> like mark milley comes to mind who according to bob woodward's new book "war" called him a fascist. would you go that far? >> look, i have tremendous respect for general milley and i see no reason to disagree with

that assessment. >> and that is where we start today with retired u.s. marine corps lieutenant colonel amy mcgrath. she is the founder of the democratic majority action pac. also msnbc columnist and contributor charlie sykes is here. and with me at the table msnbc justice and legal affairs analyst and former senior adviser to a.g. garland, anthony colee. thank you so much for being with us. amy, let's start with you on milley's comments. a military man. he is used to making sober, rational, calculated decisions. when he says things like donald trump is the most dangerous person to this country, that sounds to me like a threat assessment. >> absolutely. and it's also unprecedented. i mean, the former chairman of the joint chiefs of staff. this is the number one-ranking military officer in our nation. someone who was very close to trump, who was his handpicked adviser. to say that, it just shows you how we're living in extraordinary times. and i think, you know, normally with trump's rhetoric we see it

a lot and we sort of become numb to it in our country. this type of rhetoric is very, very dangerous. and it goes against almost 250 years of tradition and trust that we have in our military. look, in the united states of america we do not use our military against our own people. and for donald trump or any candidate for president to even suggest that is a very scary, dark place that he wants to take our country. that's why general milley is saying he's the most dangerous person that he knows to our country right now. >> amy, if milley really thinks that donald trump is a dangerous fascist, a threat to this country, does he have an obligation to speak out, to say that more publicly in more public platforms? >> you know what? i think he has. would i like him to be even more public? yes. you know who i would like to be even more public than general

milley? because general milley wore the uniform and there's a deep tradition of being non-partisan. i would like those political appointees who happen to be former generals who were in trump's administration like secretary of defense mattis, his chief of staff john kelly. those men need to come forward and tell us what they saw and heard. and also we should note that his former secretary of defense mark esper has said that donald trump tried to use the military against peaceful protesters, saying hey, why can't you just shoot them? and that's one of the reasons why he is saying trump is unfit for office. a lot of them have come forward already. >> charlie, for those who've not come forward as publicly as some of us might have liked, you have the vice president invoking milley in her remarks at greenville, north carolina. take a listen. >> anybody who wants to be president of the united states who has called for the, quote, termination of the constitution

of the united states should never again have the ability to stand behind the seal of the president of the united states! [ cheers and applause ] never again! never again! and the people who know him best know it. his former national security adviser. two of his former defense secretaries. his former chief of staff in the white house. his own vice president. have all warned america, donald trump is unfit to serve. or just listen most recently to what we heard general milley said. general milley, former chairman

of the joint chiefs under donald trump. it was just reported he said, quote, no one has ever been as dangerous to this country, in referring to donald trump. think about that. think about that. >> you've got to admit, charlie, that no matter how many times you tick through that list of folks who have come out and spoken out against him, tried to warn america, even when there are new additions to that list, it is equally alarming every time. equally stunning. >> it is. and it's a hell of a closing argument for the vice president to make, that the people closest to donald trump have said that he's unfit for office. and absolutely they need to speak out right now if in fact this is a threat to the country, if in fact this is an emergency. i think this is what patriots do. they put country over party. and to your earlier point, look, this is the reddest of red

lines, using the military against other americans. but it is an obsession of donald trump. he has said it over and over again. he's mused about using the insurrection act. he's talked about firing generals and putting maga-friendly officers in their place. and liz cheney has been concerned about this from the beginning. you might recall that in the days leading up to january 6th she and her father were instrumental in getting every single living former secretary of defense to sign an open letter saying that the military had no role to play in american elections. that was an amazing moment but was also an indication of how alarmed they had to be that they thought that they had to write that letter. so this is not something that is just a one-off or a gaffe by donald trump. this is something that he has thought about, talked about over and over again. as you said, there's a real pattern here. >> i agree with what charlie is

saying. this was clearly something that he thought about. just the fact that he ticks through all of the other places, people, things he has positioned. china, russia. migrants, which we know is a sort of favorite go-to threat. and then says forget all of those. the greatest threat that actually faces this country is the, quote, enemy from -- there's the moment he says that. there's then what happens after. >> so about these milley remarks, it was so important, alicia, that the vice president double down and reiterated these remarks yesterday in eastern north carolina. now, i'm from eastern north carolina. for folks who may not be familiar with that part of the country, extremely conservative, very strong military presence. so when somebody like general milley, when he says things like this, it's resonant with all of us as americans but is particularly resonant with people who put country over party. i'm talking nikki haley voters.

now, the other thing that struck me, and you opened here with this report, donald trump talking about the radical left. what struck me the most about this entire situation is what happened afterwards, alicia. the "washington post" reached out to the trump campaign. and asked for clarification. but the trump campaign, they didn't clarify. they doubled down. they equated efforts from the left, alicia, to what we saw, to the arrest of a afghan terrorist last week in oklahoma. do you remember this story? this was a man who had served as a security guard for the cia in afghanistan. he came to the united states on a humanitarian parole. the fbi is investigating whether or not when he was radicalized. he was arrested just days ago for purchasing two ak-47s among other weapons. and this is the person that the

trump campaign is likening to trump's political enemies. >> well, it gets to the point, charlie, this is clearly something that they have calculated. this is not an accident. it is not a gaffe. is that just about the chaos or is it about something else? >> you know, it's very interesting when you think about the rhetoric of the last week or so, that donald trump has calculated. he believes that all of the racist lies, the fascist rhetoric, it's not even adjacent, that this works for him. by turning americans against one another, by making us fear other americans more than any other threat, that somehow this is going to redound to his benefit. and so this is again i think one of the overriding questions in this election. is he right? is he seeing -- is he picking up in the polls when he lies about haitian immigrants, when he lies about the immigrants in aurora, when he talks about using the

military against fellow americans? is there a large enough segment of the electorate, at least of his base, that is aroused by that, that it will -- that in fact it will help him? because he clearly believes that it's working for him right now. >> i want you, amy, to listen to two pieces of sound. the first is liz cheney. something she said yesterday on "meet the press." and then i want you to listen. and then i will read to you some of what donald trump has said about how he wants to use the military. let's play that sound, and then we'll talk on the other side. >> you know, i think people really need to look very carefully at what donald trump will do if he were ever to be in the oval office again. the extent to which -- and he has said repeatedly that he believes he will be immune. certainly the supreme court ruling. whatever they thought they were doing. donald trump believes he will be immune for anything he does once he's in office. he will not respect the rulings of our courts. and people have to realize our courts can't enforce their own rulings. so if a president refuses to

carry out his obligation to do so, then we are no longer a nation of laws. donald trump will ignore congress. he will appoint people. people like mike flynn, for example, who just, you know, 36 hours ago mike flynn was at an event where he was asked whether or not the president's opponents should be executed. and he basically said, listen, yes, i'm going to unleash the gates of hell. these are the kinds of people that donald trump will be putting in place. the people that stopped him from his worst desires last time around won't serve again. >> amy, we need to take that and put it side by side with this reporting from the a.p. about donald trump's plans for the military if he were to be re-elected. he has pledged to recall thousands of troops from overseas and station them at the u.s. border with mexico. he has explored using troops for domestic policy priorities such as deportations and confronting civil unrest. he has talked of weeding out military officers who are ideologically opposed to him. when you take those two pieces,

what we just heard from former congresswoman cheney, that reporting from the a.p., you put them side by side, what does that tell you about a second trump term? >> well, i think it's important to know -- first of all, i agree with liz cheney 100%. we did a number of national security experts, leaders, including many former admirals and generals in the spring and summer did what are called war games, democracy, exercises, what have you, looking at trump's rhetoric, looking at his plans and playing through scenarios and trying to figure out could he actually do some of these things. and what we found was very sobering in that he could. the president has broad powers when it comes to domestic use of the military. and unfortunately a lot of that is because in our country the laws surrounding that are mostly procedural. we have traditions in this country, and he doesn't care about traditions. but it would be so dangerous

because it would rip the fabric of our military in half. when you're talking about using the united states military against our own people. that is something that we in america do not do. and so that's why this is so dangerous. and we've got to keep talking about it, and we've got to keep shining the light on this rhetoric because it is what he tried to do in the last term. as you mentioned before, there's no reason to believe that he won't do it -- or won't try to do it again. and the guardrails will be off this time. >> anthony, i want you to take a listen. this is what tim walz had to say about the idea of the enemy from within. >> he crossed a line that i have to tell you, in my lifetime i would have never imagined because we know our history. donald trump over the weekend was talking about using the u.s. army against people who disagree with him. just so you're clear about that, that's you. that's what he's talking about. this is not some mythical thing out there. he called it the enemy within. and to donald trump anybody who doesn't agree with him is the enemy. i tell you that not to make you

fearful or anything. i tell you that because we need to whip his butt and put this guy behind us. >> given that he says so many inflammatory, absurd things i think turning to the american people and saying he's talking about you, when he's talking about the enemy from within that's not an esoteric concept, it's you the voter. >> that's exactly right. i'm glad to hear tim walz out here saying -- it's absolutely the right type of messenger. you know who i think is the most effective messenger, though? same message, different messenger. the liz cheneys, the general milleys of the world. i'm thinking the 40 of the 44 cabinet secretaries who are saying that donald trump is not fit to be president. right? we need to hear more from them. it's not enough for them to say they are just not going to vote for donald trump. they need to take a page from long-time conservatives like our friend charlie sykes who just last week endorsed kamala harris for president. we need more people who put

country over party. that's the only way we are going to finally break this fever of trumpism in our country. >> we're going to get to that endorsement a little later in the show. amy mcgrath, thank you so much for starting us off. charlie and anthony are sticking with me. when we come back, vice president harris expanding her media appearances in these final few weeks. sitting down in some pretty friendly trump territory. with the race looking like it's in a dead heat, she has agreed on an interview with fox news. plus, another unfulfilled promise. this time it's not his tax returns. but it's donald trump's medical records. kamala harris calling him out on that. we're going to play that for you later in the show. his conspiracies and lies about the 2020 election still getting a lot of play in the year 2024 thanks to those like j.d. vance and mike johnson raising new fears about accepting these next results. much more to come when "deadline: white house" continues after this. ome when "deadline: white house" continues after this target the source of pain with nonsteroidal

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friends, there are only so many ways to say this. the race for president is tight. you could spend the next three weeks locked in an office poring over every morsel of polling data down to the last decimal point and it would not change the reality. the latest figures from nbc news three weeks out, harris 48, trump 48. so the name of the game now, turnout. scraping for every last vote. for both candidates today that means a trip to pennsylvania. among the most critical battleground states. if the vice president's appearance there is anything like her rally in north carolina sunday, you can expect her to turn up the heat. just watch. >> anybody who wants to be president of the united states

who has called for the, quote, termination of the constitution of the united states should never again have the ability to stand behind the seal of the president of the united states! never again! never again! and the people who know him best know it. his former national security adviser. two of his former defense secretaries. his former chief of staff in the white house. his own vice president. have all warned america donald trump is unfit to serve. >> sounds so powerful i may play it a third time.

talk about applying pressure. this afternoon fox news announced anchor bret baier will sit down with vice president harris for an interview near philadelphia on wednesday. it's a notable development for two reasons. first, harris will have an opportunity to speak directly to an audience perhaps skewed toward her opponent. but that's the other thing. trump dodged a second debate. he ducked a big "60 minutes" interview in favor of addressing his own silo. and now harris will get a word in edgewise. joining our conversation, distinguished political scholar and professor at princeton university eddie glaude. charlie and anthony also back with us. charlie, what do you think about harris on fox news? >> well, i think she's showing that she has more guts than donald trump has, that she's willing to go into hostile territory. and again, this is one of those themes that, you know, donald trump is a weak man who tries to pretend to be a strong man. he runs away from the debates. he runs away from "60 minutes." i mean, the reality is that there's a very small number of persuadable voters out there. they're probably not watching

shows like this or fox news. and yet i think she has to do this. she has to show that she is willing to basically put the pedal to the metal, go wherever anyone wants to ask her these tough questions. >> eddie, trump as you will recall sat down for an interview with bret baier one on one just last year. take a look how that went. >> vice president mike pence is running against you. >> yeah. >> your ambassador to the united nations nikki haley she's running against you. your former secretary of state mike pompeo said he's not supporting you. you mentioned national security adviser john bolton. he's not supporting you either. you mentioned attorney general bill barr. says you shouldn't be president again. calls you the consummate narcissist and troubled man. you recently called barr a gutless pig. your second defense secretary is not supporting you. called you irresponsible. this week you called your white house chief of staff john kelly weak and ineffective and born with a very small brain. you called your acting white house chief of staff nick

mulvaney a born loser. you called your first secretary of state rex tillerson dumb as a rock and your first defense secretary james mattis the world's most overrated general. you called your white house press secretary milquetoast and multiple times you've referred to your transportation secretary elaine chao as mitch mcconnell's china-loving wife. so why did you hire all of them in the first place? >> because i hired 10 to 1 that were fantastic. >> damning even a year later. but then trump of course called that interview unfriendly, called it nasty, because he didn't like the truth being reflected back at him. >> we know he's a troubled adolescent. he can't deal with anybody challenging him in any substantive way. i think this is a good thing for the vice president to do. it gives us a good sense of the scope of her courage and her strength. she's willing to go into hostile territory and hold her own. but what really matters is the ground game. the blocking and tackling. we know she has 50 offices in pennsylvania. we know she has over 400

staffers on payroll. we know they've knocked on 100,000 doors. it's the blocking and tackling. so she can go on television. it's all that they're doing on the ground. >> you've been in the rooms where these decisions are made about where you deploy a principal, the message you are deploying them with. i think it is equally telling that in these rallies she is sharpening the contrast. >> oh, yeah. this is one thing that the harris campaign, they know how to do really well. they know how to create that contrast. that's in part what the release of these medical records were about. just yesterday. right? but they also know how to put donald trump on the offense. and that's what she is doing. >> on the offense or on the defense? >> on the defense. right. >> that's all i know about sports. >> but that's what she was doing in eastern north carolina yesterday. going back to north carolina, this is important because people don't go east of i-95 unless they're going to the outer banks. right? but there are so many -- there are so many conservative voters.

but there are also a higher percentage of african american voters. but these are people that national democrats overlook. and so yesterday she went to church. she met with black farmers. she was embraced by long-time congresswoman eva clayton, who is legendary in eastern north carolina. that's the type of stuff and the type of kwagss that she needs to have. that's why she's going on fox news, trying to reach these nikki haley voters. that's why she's talking to charl amane tha god tomorrow. these are not softball interviews. i don't know how much people know about charlamagne, but he's a provocateur. and bret baier himself, he's not going to give her any hardballs either. softballs. >> i love that you were repping eastern north carolina so hard today. >> somebody has to, man. i love -- you know? >> charlie, i've got to make sure i talk about your endorsement your piece saying why i'm voting for kamala harris. you suggested it might feel warm and fuzzy to write in george washington but he's not on the

ballot. seems like a message to some of your fellow republicans who've said they won't vote for trump but they're just not sure they can come out and vote for kamala harris. >> yeah. you have a lot of them who have the partisan muscle memory, but i think this is a point that liz cheney made when she endorsed kamala harris, which is that in this election we do not have the luxury of keeping our hands clean or being above the fight. if you really regard donald trump as a real danger to the country, there's only one person that can stop him from being sworn in as president on january 20th and that's kamala harris. so this is the moment to set aside ideological differences. it's not right or left. this is not an election that's going to turn on how we feel about taxes on carried interest. we can have these debates later. but right now this is the existential moment where you have to step up. this is the time for choosing. and it's either going to be donald trump or it's kamala harris. and i think that there are a lot of conservatives who need to understand that they can have

the debates later but right now they have to do what they know is right. they have to put country ahead of party. >> an election is very much a time for choosing. charlie sykes, thank you so much for spending some time with us. the table is sticking with me next. 78-year-old donald trump at around 1:00 in the morning calling on kamala harris to take a cognitive test. as he keeps his own medical records to himself. we've got much more ahead. stay with us. e ahead. stay with us

he refuses to release his medical records. i've done it. every other presidential camp, every other presidential candidate in modern era has done it. why does his staff want him to hide away? one must question. one must question, are they afraid that people will see that he is too weak and unstable to lead america? is that what's going on? >> my, how the tables do turn. donald trump sought to make his campaign against president biden about fitness like health and age. but now that his opponent is two decades younger than him, well, times, they change. harris's two-page medical report released saturday shows she, quote, possesses the physical and mental resiliency required to successfully execute the duties. meanwhile, donald trump would be

our nation's oldest president ever inaugurated as he had followed up on what he told cbs in august, that he'd very gladly release his medical records to the public as is, you know, custom. joining us now, host of the fast politics podcast and special correspondent for "vanity fair" molly jong fast. life comes at you fast, molly. >> yeah. he made this whole campaign, donald trump made the whole campaign about mental fitness, mental acuity, ran against joe biden's old age. well, now donald trump is the oldest person ever to run for president. and he's running against a 59-year-old. >> there's a little bit of we don't need a cognitive test, he is out there every day speaking and you can follow along and make your own judgment. that's not necessarily the point here, right? it is about putting this question of fitness front and center. >> absolutely. it's about drawing contrast. she's the prosecutor. she has to make the closing argument. and this gives us some added evidence. that is to say, look, he won't give us the information around his physical.

we know how he talks. he's not giving us the information around his mental acuity. so this is just about giving her more resources, tools to bring the case to -- to bring the case to the close. but again, for donald trump it doesn't matter. >> people like the idea of donald trump, but they're ignoring the reality of donald trump. and this is why kamala harris -- you remember when she said at the very first debate, she encouraged people to go to his rallies, to watch him? because she wants people to see how severely diminished he is. because the idea of this man, this strongman, this you know successful businessman that they have in their mind, that's not who he is. and she wants everybody to see it. >> i would also say it's a case for norms. donald trump has flouted norms his whole career. right? he hasn't let -- you know, released a physical. he hasn't released his taxes. this is the third time now he's not releasing his taxes. so you know, do you want normal

democracy or do you want whatever it is that donald trump is selling? >> i think it also sort of undercuts something that we're seeing in polling and in focus groups, which is as hard as it is for all of us and our viewers to believe there are some american voters who are simply not that familiar with vice president harris. they're not familiar with her record, not familiar with her bio. one of the things you see is the more she's in front of them the more they learn about her the more they like her. there's this sort of fundamental question of do i trust you if all of a sudden we find ourselves in a time of crisis, are you the person who i want to be in charge? so she's both answering that question and also saying your choice is binary. do you trust this guy in a time of crisis? >> you know, and i think that's effective for certain sector and segment of the electorate. we're talking about reasoned argument. right? i'm reasonable. he's not. i'm trustworthy. he's not. all of that presupposes that reasonableness is informing

decision-making. one of the things that we have to admit about this current election season is that that's not what's informing it. it's deep passion. those passions rooted in grievance. rooted in hatred. so every time that we try to disclose or show or illuminate that donald trump isn't that guy, it doesn't matter because that's not the reason why he's attractive to so many americans. >> i think what it more likely does, and you'll tell me if you disagree, is it gets a few voters over a hump. right? if they're saying i just am not sure, i don't know enough about her, for some reason for them it is essentially a wash, that it becomes the final motivating seal the deal to perhaps not not turn out for him but to actually get out there and cast a ballot. >> right. and remember, the maga crew is so dug in, you're never going to get those voters. but you don't necessarily need them. you just need that small percentage of voters who are not completely sure. and remember, trump has a

ceiling. like there are only a certain amount of people who like what he's selling. and she does not have the same ceiling. and we've seen her favorabilities rise. for example, that debate was huge for her. she did really well. and people really liked her. i think she's making a gamble here by going on fox news, that the more of her the better. >> all right. everyone stay with me. up next, one of the biggest groups the vice president needs to lock in over these next three weeks, black men. she's got a new plan out today on how to do just that. stay with us. ay with us

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so my question to you is do you think that what president obama said was the right thing to say? >> let me tell you, i am very proud to have the support of president obama. and that he is out traveling to talk with voters about what is at stake in this election. i'm very proud to have his support. what is also important is to understand that as i said, i intend to earn the vote of everyone, including black men. two, pay attention to everything that president obama talked about. because he also talked about at length the danger of donald trump. the danger of donald trump. in terms of somebody who has said that they would weaponize the department of justice against his political enemies.

somebody who has referred to black immigrants in springfield, ohio, legal immigrants, as though they would eat their pets. constantly perpetuating tropes. >> vice president harris weighing in on president obama's message to black men, urging them to vote for her. the vice president this week making a major push to try to shore up support among what has always been a key group of voters but especially in an election where marge rinz going to matter. today her campaign unveiled a sweeping plan to bolster the careers and finances of black men. it's part of an all-out blitz to try to boost her standing with them. we are back with molly, eddie and anthony. >> i thought that was a brilliant answer. i thought it was right on point. she didn't have to position herself in relation to what president obama said or against what the critics have been saying. she didn't fall into lift all boats kind of rhetoric. instead she began to talk about the specific stakes of the election and kind of open up the

door for the specific policies that she's going to address. i thought it was a perfectly pitched response. >> and she's on the shade room which is so smart. >> so smart. and tomorrow she's sitting with charlamagne tha god, having a similar type of conversation. that one i think is going to be a little more hard-hitting. you know, he is a sharp political interviewer. he will ask the questions that people have on their mind but he's going to do it in a way that will get a rise, get a reaction out of her. so there's risk there. but let me just say this broadly about the conversation we have been having nationally over the last couple days. number one, about these polls, about softer support among black men. i don't know that i believe them. but for the sake of the argument let's say that it is true. 78%, "the new york times" says, is the amount of support that she has among black men. that's 8 out of 10.

right? there is no other demographic in which she has higher support. and what i know for sure, putting aside these facts, what i know for sure is that everybody sitting around, everybody is not a political junkie like us sitting around this table. millions of americans including black men are just now tuning in. and this is why it is important that she has unveiled these plans today right as people are paying attention. and the other important thing she did here, what barack obama did, was talk about the stakes because the stakes are real. but she also has to, when she talks to charlamagne tomorrow, she also has to make clear how voting for her is in the interest, the best interest of black men and their families. and i'm confident that she will. >> i just want to tick really quickly through what this opportunity agenda looks like. a million dollars in loans that are fully forgivable to black proorz and others to start a

business. education, mentorship programs, regulatory framework for cryptocurrency other digital assets so black men who invest in and own those assets are protected. there will be people who will critique this because there are things they wanted to see in it that are not here. what it is actually doing is saying we're trying, we are recognizing that we're going to have to make an overture. >> of course there are going to be some folks to the left of her or to the right of her that are going to be critical. but i think the important thing here is that she's communicating how her policy positions directly respond to the conditions of this demographic. that's really key. so it's not just simply assuming by virtue of some representational politics that black folk and black men will automatically support her. she's going out there trying to earn their vote and i think that's really important in this moment. >> at a time when no one is asking donald trump for his opportunity agenda. >> donald trump tried to appeal to black men and he did sneakers and nfts. right? this is substantively very different. >> and let's be clear.

whatever happens in this election, black men and black people won't be responsible for who wins and loses. >> say it directly to the camera so i can run the tape back. >> i want to be very, very clear. we need to start talking about the majority of americans who have for all of these years, that have the record of donald trump. and the large number of folk who are still supporting him. black men will not be responsible for donald trump. >> it's the duality of having this conversation because it's a similar conversation we have in the latino community which is we want to be treated like we are important voters. we want to feel as though we are being invited to the table. not some other table that's for latinos. we want to be invited to the table. we want to go to the party, not some party that's for lateenos. and at the same time even if there is broad support for the vice president there is always this fear that the finger will get pointed, should that moment come, and it will be the groups

that have continuously showed up that will be linked. >> exactly. either we have to save democracy or we'll be blamed for democracy collapsing. >> but a good thing that she's saying, which i think is very smart, is she's saying i need to earn your vote. she's not saying it's mine because i'm a democrat. >> the other conversation that needs to be had, and she dunce doesn't need to be the one to convey it, is the issue barack obama addressed. this is misogyny. not just directed at black men but men in general. there is a good chunk of men in this country forever a variety of reasons who do not want to vote, who are hesitant to vote for any woman for higher office including the office of president. and the first way, the best way to address that is by first acknowledging it because it is a real concern and if we don't get over that hump i'm afraid that we're going to be stuck with donald trump for another four years. and the stakes of that are just too awesome to fathom. >> well, and at the same time as you and i have discussed all of

those underlying elements can be there. and at the same time there has been a moneyed, concerted effort on the part of the republican party to make inroads with men. they've seen men, especially young men as a prime target. and so they have been making these overtures over the course of years to say come on in, we're with you. even if we're not ideologically aligned. you poll young men on abortion, on climate change, on education, they're pretty progressive. >> absolutely. >> that's not even the issue. the issue is who's welcoming me in. >> wounded masculinity. in the face of all of this identity politics, where are you? you're locked into your basements, you're lonely, you're being radicalized by these internet sources and the like. who are speaking to young white men? who are speaking to young black men? who are speaking to young latino men? this is the question. this is what folks have been doing. i think at the end of the day we have to be mindful of the deep-rooted misogyny and patriarchy that defines this place but at the end of the day we also have to understand that

we have to address particular constituencies right where they are. >> thank you for wrang that up in a bow for me anthony colee, molly jong fast. always a pleasure. we're going to sneak in a quick break. be right back. 're going to snea break. be right back. the need to screen when due... for colon cancer's a priority. indeed! everyone 45+ at average risk should screen for colon cancer. these folks are getting it done at home with me, cologuard. cologuard is a one-of-a-kind way to screen for colon cancer that's effective and non-invasive. it's for people 45+ at average risk, not high risk. false positive and negative results may occur. ask your provider for cologuard. i did it my way. subject 1: who's coming in the driveway? subject 2: dad! dad! dad, we missed you! daddy, hi! subject 3: goodness! my daughter is being treated for leukemia. i hope that she lives a long, great, happy life

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a third known to be charged with a domestic violence offense. phillip resformis received a commutation on a 20-year fraud sentence from then president trump in 2020 only to plead guilty this year to a related crime. he was arrest on sunday on domestic violence-related charges in south florida. cording to the "new york times" family members say he allegedly verbally threatened a woman who relatives described as his wife and further intimidated family members by breaking items on a table filled with glassware, pushed the table toward one of the family members and tried to prevent the woman from calling the police by smashing her cell phone. corrections officials indicated that he was still in custody as of this morning. just ahead for us, new concerns about the post-election landscape should republicans again question results of the presidential race. i'm going to sneak in a quick break. we'll be right back. sneak in a break. we'll be right back. e it helps with healthy joints and inflammation support. why qunol? it has superior absorption compared to regular turmeric. qunol. the brand i trust.

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in an interview with the "new york times" j.d. vance was repeatedly asked if donald trump lost the 2020 election. let's see how he handled it. >> i'm going to ask you again. did donald trump lose the 2020 election? >> i've answered your question with another question. [ laughter ] >> then vance offered to move the interview under a bridge so he could answer in the form of a riddle. you can't answer questions with questions. if a cop asks have you been drinking, you can't ask him, have you been drinking? ossifer. >> hi again, everyone. it is 5:00 here in new york. i'm alicia menendez in for nicolle wallace. over and over again we see members of the republican party bend over backwards to placate the ex-president. one of the most damaging ways

that they do that is by perpetuating his big lie that the 2020 election was stolen. by denying the plain hard facts that there was no widespread voter fraud in 2020. republicans are only creating more uncertainty and concern on what's going to happen this november. take house speaker mike johnson who would not give a straightforward answer when asked on "meet the press" if he would certify the election results o'no matter who wins. >> yes, if the election is free and fair and legal and we pray and hope that it is, there's a lot of work being done to make sure that's true. i think this one's going to be so large there will be no question. i think donald j. trump is your next president. and that can't happen soon enough. >> when people hear you say if it is free and fair, does not that undermine people's confidence in the election results, mr. speaker? >> no, it shouldn't. no. it shouldn't. because what i'm saying there is what the constitution provides. what the supreme court has affirmed time after time. what history has affirmed. the point is the process works. we have the peaceful transfer of

power. we did in 2020. we will in 2024. >> not sure what transfer of power speaker mike johnson lived through. but following the 2020 election there was a deadly insurrection where people lost their lives either on that day or in the weeks that followed. where over 140 law enforcement officers were injured. where a vice president was rushed to a secret location because there were chants for him to be hanged. and where american democracy was almost completely upended. someone who has made it her mission to protect that democracy and the u.s. constitution, former congresswoman liz cheney responded to johnson's comments. >> i do not have faith that mike johnson will fulfill his constitutional obligations. and if you just look at what he did in 2020, he knew and he knew with specificity that the claims of fraud that donald trump was making and that he was repeating, he knew those to be false. we had very clearing and

specific conversations about that. you saw that sycophancy just now on display. i think it's very concerning. i do think that donald trump has consistently said again and again and again, you know, in the last few months that this election is going to be rigged and that if he loses that's why. i think it's very important that the republicans not be in the majority in the house come january 2025. >> but the danger that trump poses to this republic, it goes far beyond the peaceful transfer of power. we are just learning that tonight at her rally in erie, pennsylvania vice president harris is going to ratchet up warnings about the risk of a second trump term, pointing to his increasingly unhinged and dangerous rhetoric, when he calls fellow americans, quote, the enemy from within. as well as those new comments to fox news we showed you in the last hour where he said he would deploy the military against them. the harris campaign also releasing this new ad on that very topic. >> donald trump, more dangerous,

more erratic than ever before. >> echoing fascists. >> the worst people are the enemies from within. >> the enemy from within. are more dangerous than russia -- >> we have some very bad people. >> it should be very easily handled by the military. >> i do remember the day that he suggested that we shoot people on the streets. >> a second terminal would be worse. there will be no one to stop his worst instincts. unchecked power. no guardrails. if we elect trump again, we're in terrible danger. >> and that is where we start this hour with former homeland security and counterterrorism adviser to vice president mike pence, olivia troye, who's featured in that new harris campaign ad. also with us, former rnc spokesman and host of the bulwark podcast tim miller. the editor at large for the nine tooengt and host of the podcast "the amendment," msnbc political analyst erin haynes. and with me at the table for the hour msnbc political analyst and author of the forthcoming book "a more perfect party: the night shirley chisholm and diahann

carroll reshaped politics." juanita tolliver is here. olivia, you were featured in thad. talk to me about the danger of a second trump term. we've talked about it a lot. it feels like these new comments are bringing it into even sharper focus. >> well, i think trump recently said that he would use the military and the national guard against americans to get some people against his enemies, people who vote against him. as someone who was in the room, i remember that day very clearly, i remember when he said it in front of people. i remember looking around at staff. we all exchanged looks. i think it was a moment of shock saying did he just suggest that? and it went along with other comments that he said about mowing down americans, mowing down protesters. i know mark esper, the former secretary of defense under donald trump, was there to witness it. he's spoken about this. so i think when he says comments like this we should take him at his word because we have seen that he acts on it or at least he attempts to act on it. but the people around him the first time around kept him from

doing it. the second time around in a second trump administration there won't be the people to try to hold him back from his worst instincts. >> tim, olivia led me to exact l. where i wanted to go which was trump's running mate was asked by nbc just this afternoon if it was justifiable to use military assets on americans. take a listen. >> well, is it a justifiable use of those assets if they're rioting and looting and burning cities down to the ground zm of course it is. i think the question is is it a justifiable use of assets depends on what's actually happening. i think as we've seen -- and again, i want to be clear here. i'm not painting the entire democratic party with a broad brush. i'm painting the leadership and the far left activists. but we saw this in the summer of 2020. we certainly saw some of this after the election of 2016. there is a core group of far left activists who are willing to threaten, harass and commit violence against their fellow citizens. if that happens, if you have a major reaction to an election in 2024, of course you ought to commit law enforcement resources to bring order back to our cities.

>> tim? >> he's all over the place, for starters because then he ends with law enforcement. he's talking about the military originally. and this is the drive threat when you look at just how willy-nilly they throw things like this around, that yeah, sure, we might have to use the military to go after our own citizens. in another j.d. vance clip recently he said the most important person in the next trump administration would be the attorney general. when he was pressed by kristen welker about this he said, well, yeah, i mean, like the attorney general would have to consider looking at -- looking into people that committed fraud during the 2020 election. which we know doesn't exist. right? they're moving the ball around. j.d. vance is trying to make this sound less authoritarian than it is and trump's trying to make it sound as authoritarian as he wants because that is his intext r tension. intention. but if you look at his actual words, what they're planning on doing is targeting people that

they think committed voter fraud with no evidence of this, weaponizing the department of justice against political foes, and potentially using the u.s. military against political foes. i mean, it is a fundamentally un-american program. it is outside of the bipartisan norms in this country which is why you've seen people like olivia and liz cheney speak out against it. and it's a very real threat that the people need to take seriously. it's not bluster. >> here's what i find interesting, which is there's a segment of americans whose feelings and thoughts on donald trump are calcified. they lived through what he did. they know what he did. and they're still going to vote for him. yes, maybe some of them suffer from amnesia. but even if they recall they're still willing to go and vote for him. you pair what he did, though, with new information about what he is promising to do, and that contrast between ex-president trump and vice president harris

becomes even sharper. >> i'd add in one more layer, alicia, and that's that the supreme court has granted immunity for any president for any actions they take within the office. so when harris ends that ad with unchecked power, that's explicitly what she's referring to. and so when you talk about the voters who are still riding with trump we understand trump operates detached from reality. he operates without any rules, thus nullifying what he even considers to be the constitution. like there is nothing holding him back. and i think that's what the harris campaign is doing in emphasizing in this ad, talking about the threat, talking about the very real concerns. and i appreciate olivia for stepping forward and appearing in that ad, to emphasize what has already been done. we know it is our right to gather peacefully to protest. donald trump doesn't want that anymore. and to hear that in his first term in office, hopefully his only term in office, he considered shooting protesters who are gathered peacefully.

like there is no question about the threat that he poses. and so these concerns about a peaceful transfer of power are very real because the threat is real. i think the other piece, when i come back to mike johnson and the concerns liz cheney expressed, remember, mike johnson is also the individual who filed legal briefs in support of trump's frivolous claims in courts across the country in those battleground states that are clearly testing within the margin of error right now. he's someone who backed trump's lies in 2020, and that phrasing he used with kristen welker, which i appreciate her pressing him on, is what he will likely lean on again in 2024. >> erin, when you are out on the trail, when you are talking to voters, is this all resonating? >> well, listen, it is resonating with a certain segment of voters because the big lie continues and it has metastasized in our politics because you have candidates and politicians in the highest elected offices that are continuing to perpetuate it. so yes, it is -- there are still voters in my home state of

georgia who for example still believe that the 2020 election was rigged and that, you know, joe biden was not the duly elected president. and that is because you have the former president continuing to say this. that is why this mattered. our elections, we should not keep saying this, but they are free and fair. there was not a peaceful transfer of power. so that does matter for us to be asking. it is not a hard or gacha question to be asking speaker johnson or a j.d. vance do you believe that donald trump lost the election in 2020, do you believe that this election is going to be fair and accurate. and yet like these are not questions that they can answer. i mean, that "snl" clip that you showed would have been funny if it wasn't so serious. this is a central question of our democratic process for any candidate running for president or vice president because this is something that is still being told to voters, and so this is setting up the -- this narrative headed into 2024.

it's exactly what he wants to do because if he is not declared the winner, as juanita just said, he is going to say that this election was rigged. and so it is important for, you know, folks like vice president harris and others who know that this election is going to be fair and accurate to continue to say that and continue to have this closing message about democracy literally being on the ballot and what the stakes really are in this contest. >> olivia, to errin's point it's an easy question to answer if your best and highest use is not making sure that you don't alienate your boss, your running mate, when that clearly is their top concern. let's talk a little bit about what these elections are going to look like. 2020 it took pennsylvania four days to call the election because they have rules that don't allow the state to begin counting mail-in ballots until election day begins. on "60 minutes" last night we heard officials there discuss the process. take a listen. >> what took so long? >> when you have half of your voters vote by mail like we did

in 2020, counting those votes takes time. >> we you saw for ourselves at a ballot intake center in chester county outside philadelphia. >> so this is the actual envelope and this is what the ballots are returned in. >> and this is a sample. >> correct. >> reporter: elections administrator karen barsum showed us how each ballot arrives inside two different envelopes. >> 94 ballots in one tray. >> reporter: processing them is a tedious task which under pennsylvania law cannot start until 7:00 a.m. on election day. >> so when we do open it there is another envelope. so hypothetically speaking if we have 100,000 mail-in ballots we have to deal with double the amount of envelopes, which is a long process. and then the ballots comes out. >> and you can't count it folded like that. >> correct. we will need to have a whole different team unfold them, backfold them to get the creases out as good as we can. >> how long does it take to process each ballot?

>> several minutes. it's not like done in a sec. >> okay. olivia, there's some expectation management that's going to have to happen around the fact that doing things properly requires time. and in that time i have to imagine you are concerned about disinformation, conspiracy falsehoods filling in that void. >> yes, absolutely. i think any opportunity that they have to exploit this and spin their narratives and turn it into complete fabrications and lies they will do. and i think we need to be prepared for that. i do think it's important to continue to explain the actual election process, how the ballots work. and i give great credit to the people in public service that are out there running these elections. and let's keep in mind that we do have to have their backs because of the threats they received in previous elections and i have no doubt that they will see some ugliness and threats in this upcoming election again. and i think it's up to us, the

voters and americans, to really start to take a stand against this because the power of disinformation is real. we're seeing it rampant in a number of areas, right? so when it comes to this election it's going to be the same playbook donald trump played in 2020, the exact same thing he's doing. he's already saying it's rigged. he will continue to do this. and he'll get more and more angry about it the more he thinks he's losing. and every day in the aftermath of the election i think it's important for us to stay calm, to support the process and let the process play out. the elections are secure. there's been court cases. there's been long-standing officials, experts that have all said the 2020 election was secure, it was safe, it was fair. >> errin, as we were watching that clip from "60 minutes," juanita mouthed to me georgia, which brings me to you and some of the incredible reporting that you've been doing in the state. talk to me about what these new changes could mean. >> well, before i get to that, i was living in the commonwealth in 2020 when that process was

playing out and people were confused. people did not know what the rules were in pennsylvania. and so god bless "60 minutes" for trying to lay out that process and trying to manage expectations for voters going into this election. but listen, we see what's happening in georgia with the state board of elections that has now decide that for whatever reason hand-counting the ballots would be a more relike and trusted process than a machine count. so who knows what kind of chaos or what kind of -- how that will affect voter confidence. so what ends up happening is that you have republican secretaries of state like al schmitt who have to go on "60 minutes" to reassure voters that widespread voter fraud, that non-citizen voting is not a things even as the former president is coming to places like georgia and having to -- you have schmitt having to tell the same voters that he is tasked with helping to cast their ballots that this is not a thing. right? and unfortunately in the era of

the big lie like fighting election denialism is part of the job for these state officials that have been demonized by the republican party, who were in charge of conducting our elections. and that's just really a shame for them and for our democracy because it's not really what either signed up for. >> well, especially, tim, when donald trump keeps pointing fingers at everyone except himself. we learned from bob woodward's new book trump didn't stop trying to regain power once biden took the oath of office. let me read you a little bit. quote, trump phoned republican representative for alabama mo brooks, a staunch trump supporter, and asked him to publicly call for a special election to reinstate him as president. brooks, who had supported the plan by trump and conservative lawyer john eastman to challenge the certification of biden's win, pointed out that joe biden was president. brooks said biden's victory had been certified and there was no legal pathway for trump to rescind it. the constitution provided no such mechanism to reinstate a president. trump was enraged. he later withdrew his endorsement of brooks in the

alabama senate race. brooks lost in the republican primary. >> yeah. i've got a lot of thoughts, alicia. for starters that person is a lunatic, donald trump, the person in that story trying to get reinstated as president. and we are committing national suicide to put somebody like that back in the white house again. it's just absolutely unfathomable that you would want to put somebody in power that tried to steal the last election and then didn't believe it when he was sent home on a plane, did not participate in the transfer of power and then had a temper tantrum and tried to get himself reinstated. it is insane that we are here. i do just want to talk really quick about the other -- the vote counting thing because it is going to take a long time. >> please. >> and we appreciate all the people that are work, all of the election volunteers. i mean, god love all of them. i want to say, though, as a prodemocracy movement we need to be pushing to more efficient election reforms. florida figured this out a

quarter century ago. fluor counts its ballots on election flight because it had the crisis of 2000. thank god it was al gore in 2000 and not donald trump. it's hard to kind of imagine how our democracy would have withheld that crisis. but after it happened florida figured out how to fix this. and the fact that georgia's moving backwards and pennsylvania hasn't figured it out is a massive problem and pro-democracy candidates in those states need to make this a priority going forward. it's unfortunate. like you know, it would be nice if we lived in a system we could count ballots for four days and not worry that one side was going to create problems, but we don't live in that world. and i think it's extremely alarming that we're going to have such a long gap between election day and when the election is called. >> indeed. tim miller, errin haynes, thank you both for starting us off. juanita and olivia, you are sticking with me. when we return with just weeks to go before the election why the justice department is suing the commonwealth of virginia, arguing the state's efforts to remove voters from the voter rolls is a violation of the law. plus alarming new reporting in the "washington post" about how

fema's recovery teams are being moved in the reports of armed militias targeting them. we'll go live to erie, pennsylvania just hours before vice president harris's big campaign rally there. "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. stay with us. break. stay with us

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"i'm mark farrell. i'm running for mayor because san francisco deserves better." "i'm ready to deliver that change on day one." mark farrell. a proven leader with the experience we need. it's just over three weeks before election day. republicans are working overtime to strip back voting rights and sow distrust in the election. and now doj is fighting back. the u.s. justice department is suing virginia officials for removing registered voters from the system while early voting is already under way. the lawsuit says virginia

republicans not only violated federal law by purging voter registrations so close to election day but that the process ordered by republican governor greg youngkin uses often inaccurate data from the dmv to determine a voter's eligibility. that, quote, does not require the dmv, department of elections or local registrars to take any steps to confirm an individual's purported non-citizen status prior to mailing the individual a notice of intent to cancel. and quote, the individuals they've identified as non-citizens include u.s. citizens. joining us now, former u.s. attorney and former deputy assistant attorney general harry litman. juanita tolliver is back with us as well. the lawsuit plainly states virginia's, quote, unlawful actions here have likely confused, deterred and removed u.s. citizens who are fully eligible to vote. so where does this go from here? >> well, it goes to a district court, which ought to apply the law and tell virginia to stand

down. but it's just as you say. and the first point to note is this non-citizen idea. juanita just mentioned it in georgia. it's the sort of flavor of the year this year that republicans are using around the country in different ways to sort of get at trimming the rolls. what happened in virginia, glenn youngkin has ordered a process where if the dmv has some inconsistent data they identify people. and by the way, it's clear, there are basically no non-citizens voting. but that's the premise. they'll identify people with a discrepancy. and then they've got to prove that they're okay to vote. so they're either going to be -- we're talking about naturalized citizens. they'll be either cowed. or who wants to go through basically getting a whole new driver's license kind of problem in the two weeks before an election. and that's what they're trying to do. that's the important point here. >> this is just not a real issue. >> it's not a real thing. and what's most frustrating is

this is the latest iteration in the voter suppression playbook by the rnc and republicans. and in these specific instances npr has proactively fact-checked them. they went through and did analysis about non-citizen voting. and what they came up with is non-citizens are .0001% likely -- >> they are laying low. they are not trying to cast ballots. >> i'm talking tens in the midst of 20 million voters. this is a non-issue. but it's the latest bogeyman for republicans in an attempt to ban these people, legal citizens, legal voters, from casting ballots. this is also why i tell people, and you can check my twitter feed. go to iwillvote.com. check your voter registration status. unfortunately you likely need to check it multiple times because these are the playbooks republicans are applying before 2024. >> i'm such an anxious person that i check those things fairly regularly. harry, this is from assistant u.s. attorney general kristen clark. "congress adopted the national voter registration act's quiet

period restriction to prevent error-prone 11th hour efforts that all too often disenfranchise qualified voters." the gop's so-called election integrity efforts, they are actually exactly what congress wanted to prevent in the first place. >> yeah, 100%. because they just found in congress if you do this in the last 90 days there's confusion, there's bedlam, people don't correct things. and as always with elections it becomes too late to remedy after the fact. so when you do exactly this, i mean, the real fact of the matter, as juanita says, is there are many more naturalized citizens who are going to be removed. and of course the penalty if you're an illegal -- if you're not supposed to vote for voting is severe and sort of immediate removal from the country. why would anyone do that in the first place? bogeyman's the perfect word for this. it's just a phantom being used to trim the rolls of naturalized citizens who have every right to

vote in this country. >> here's the thing about what they're doing, juanita is one, they're disenfranchising people. that's the most egregious. they are spreading distrust in the process. but they're also putting us in a position where the conversation happening is about a rolling back of rights rather than a conversation that you and i wish we were having about how you would actually make voting easier. >> how you would make it -- if what you want, if you believe that a thriving democracy only exists when the most people possible are participating in the electoral process, then what you do is you make it easier for people to vote, not harder. >> right. and it all comes back to, and harry might know this answer better than me, how much of this is because the voting rights act was gutted? how much of the doj having to play whack-a-mole state by state instead of these states, which have a history of disenfranchising voters, getting preliminary approval before they make these changes and try to remove people from ballots, is this attributed to? i go back to that. repeatedly. because this deterioration of rights, it's sadly what is also

undergirding the deterioration of our democracy as you aptly put it. i also think about the reality that this is also impacting lower-income people, black and brown people, people who speak english as a second language, and who might be fearful about accessing the polls because fear is the tactic at play here that republicans are leveraging. and so again, know your rights and make sure you have access to the elections hotlines to make sure you have every bit of information you need in order to access the polls. because only one power is hellbent on blocking people from the polls. >> harry litman, as always, thank you very much for being with us. >> thanks, alicia. >> when we return, the ongoing specter of disinformation hampering hurricane relief efforts in north carolina. we're going to have a new report on how fema is protecting its crews from the threat of armed militias. as power e*trade's easy-to-use tools, like dynamic charting and risk-reward analysis, help make trading feel effortless. and its customizable scans with social sentiment

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automatic protections for who can contact them and the content they can see. ♪♪ misinformation amplified by donald trump has again created unprecedented harm. this time to first responders. already some victims of hurricane had refused much-needed and readily available assistance because of rampant disinformation. but now fema tells nbc news it's had to make some operational adjustments for the safety of staff and survivors. it comes after the "washington post" reports that emergency personnel were forced to evacuate hard-hit rugterford county, north carolina with an urgent message warning.

quote, trucks of armed militias were out hunting fema. neither the north carolina national guard nor the governor's office has been able to confirm that report. though they are working to do so. and the governor has directed officials to work with law enforcement to identify specific threats. joining our conversation, extreme weather and disasters reporter for the "washington post" breanna saks is here. she is bylined on that piece of report popping livia troy and juanita tolliver are back with us. brianna, tell us about you are why reporting and the current status of necessary hurricane relief. >> sure. so i was in rutherford county i believe on sunday at a distribution site when i heard a report of a man arrested after he was trying to threaten fema officials and then a bit later i heard about this e-mail that the forest service sent out with a pretty urgent message saying that there were trucks of armed militia driving around searching

for fema personnel and that they had asked fema as well as other federal employees such as the forest service, national park service, to relocate and stop their duties and move to a safe area. so we can report now that rutherford county sheriff's department arrested one man who made threats against fema and they found him armed with an assault rifle and a handgun. they have not found trucks of militia. but i think it just shows the heightened tension and fear that has been going on in western north carolina in terms of from federal response workers and the misinformation and kind of distrust against the government that some residents have been expressing as well. >> right. and brianna, i think the other thing you managed to do is really tease out how this all happens. here's from your reporting. in chimney rock a rumor spread on social media that government

officials planned to seize the decimated village and bulldoze bodies under the rubble. authorities and news outlets debunked the assertion, but people still took to social media imploring militias to go after fema. just how does this type of misinformation spread? >> we are chasing this down actually as we speak. but this claim seems to come from one individual who posted it a week or so ago and it just blew up on x. people were reading it out loud on tiktok. they were reposting it on facebook. it was getting shared in groups. and i think this is a part of western north carolina where it's rural, you know, communications were down, so people were kind of talking at distribution sites where i heard rumblings. and i think just things spread pretty quickly. so it was baking online and then kind of i saw it play out on the ground a little bit when i was there. >> olivia, i want to show you a

harris campaign ad. it features you talking about donald trump playing political games with american lives. take a look. >> i worked in the trump administration. >> never in a million years did i ever think that i'd be working in the white house with a president that didn't care about the american people. >> he would suggest not getting disaster relief to states that hadn't voted for him. >> i remember one time after a wildfire in california he wouldn't send relief because it was a democratic state. so we went as far as looking up how many votes he got in those impacted areas to show him these are people who voted for you. this isn't normal. the job of the president is to protect americans. regardless of politics. >> if trump's elected again, there will be no one to stop his worst instincts. he'll have yes men help him implement project 2025's agenda. unchecked power, no guardrails. >> they will be serving one man. i am voting for kamala harris because she will put the safety

and security of every american first, whether they voted for her or not. >> olivia, the spread of misinformation, it is not new and yet it should alarm us every time. >> yes. i remain extremely concerned about this. i've been furious in the aftermath when donald trump came forward and spread these lies about the government response. it really only just -- it really only hurts americans. that's the only thing that does. because right now these counties are in need. so now you have these people on the ground who are deployed trying to do their best, putting their own lives at risk and given the circumstances on the ground trying to do their best to bring the support and aid to the area. and now they're going to be targeted by people who are believing these lies about them. so where does this end? like when did this stop? it brings me back to i've spent time on the ground with fema. i have seen the selfless work of them. i've been deployed on the ground where i've actually been out with a megaphone translating things in spanish trying to get

people to come forward for help, making sure that that language was spoken to reach them. what would that look like today? think about that. with all the anti-immigrant, all the lies about immigrants right now, what would that look like today if i were out there with fema translating things, speaking spanish? would i get shot by a militia? i mean, let's think about the rampant disinformation that we have going in our country and the number of areas and the combination of it. the culmination of it. and how dangerous it is. and it's coming from someone who was once the president of our country and who seeks the presidency again. these types of things should never enter the conversation when it comes to the safety and well-being of the american people. and if it seems like i'm so frustrated and angry it's because i'm so tired of seeing this one selfish individual create harm to americans regardless of who they voted for. and i guarantee some of these people on the ground there, they're trump supporters. they are voting for him. and guess what, they're the ones being hurt right now.

>> olivia, i'm grateful that you are frustrated and that you are angry because it means you care. which is what we want from people who are in positions as you once were to administer care and help at a time when americans need it most. and i'm also taken, juanita, by what olivia's saying because it's a reminder that multiple elements are converging all at the same time. you have the reality of the climate crisis and the fact we're going to see more of these extreme weather situations. you have the rise of disinformation. you have what donald trump and trumpism has done to federal institutions where they have undermined federal institutions. you have a type of xenophobia and racism that has made these conversations additionally complicated. it is a boiling cauldron. >> a boiling cauldron with compounding crises happening simultaneously. and what i appreciate from some of the reporting from the "washington post" with brianna and her team was that one person in north carolina said you know, it's like a 51-49 percent

spread. and when i saw that number -- >> you mean political spread. >> no, spread on who's believing the misinformation. and that did take me to the political spread because it tracks. if 51 to 49% of the country is still split in battleground states like north carolina in terms of the presidential race. like it makes me wonder what are the partisan lines here. what are the education lines here in that make people more or less susceptible to the misinformation. especially at a moment when their lives have been ravaged and upended. and to see these volunteers, to see the fema staffers face threats while trying to help people. they're no longer able to go door to door. but they have to set up centralized locations where people can come to. that's just delaying care. that's delaying aid. that's delaying resources. and as olivia rightfully is frustrated about, what this means and still some of these individuals are going to vote for the person who is sowing the

doubt, sowing the distrust, sowing the disinformation, that's confounding and deeply upsetting. but it is sadly one of the realities. i'm curious to see how the harris campaign works to combat it. >> i'm curious, brianna, if you can sort of answer that question that olivia has. did you get a sense of when people are engaging with the misinformation and disinformation, understanding it as coming from a variety of tributaries, if there are folks that are more exposed or more susceptible to it and if that sort of breaks down along any of these demographic groups. >> sure. i do want to say that the 51-49 quote was from a forest service worker who was on the ground and he expressed that 51% of the people he's encountered have been happy the government was there. he was there. and the other percentage were like we don't want the federal government here. so that was also striking to me. but -- and some of the -- i

don't know if they're conspiracy theories really. but the beliefs that residents and some of the disaster responders on the ground i encountered were saying was that fema isn't here, the federal government's not here, we don't see any helicopters, we don't see any people dropping off aid, we're fending for ourselves. but at the same time they don't want the federal government here either. so it's this interesting tension in some of these more rural areas. and granted, in asheville it's a much different climate i would say in terms of the response to and treatment of federal workers there on the ground but it's more in these rural, more mountainous towns in rutherford and avery county that i went to where it seems that people feel they're really on their own or saying fema was like stealing supplies from them and rumors like that. >> brianna sacks, thank you so much for your reporting and for sharing it with us. olivia troye, my friend, thank you as always for being with us.

when we return, we're going to go live to erie, pennsylvania where vice president kamala harris is gearing up for her rally in the northwestern part of that crucial battleground state. we are back with that after this. back with that after this humana medicare advantage plans. carry this card and you could have the power to unlock benefits beyond original medicare. these are convenient plans that offer all of the benefits of original medicare, plus extra coverage and benefits. with a humana medicare advantage plan, you could get doctor, hospital and prescription drug coverage in one convenient plan. most

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won it back in 2016. as we reported at the top of this hour the vice president will be ramping up her warnings about a potential second trump term after he called some of the left wing of this country's politics, quote, the enemy from within. joining our conversation, nbc news senior national political reporter sahel kapur is in erie, pennsylvania for us. juanita is with me at the table. all right, sahel, what are we going to hear tonight? >> hey, alicia. i'm in erie, pennsylvania and kamala harris is going to speak at the stage right behind me later tonight. she's going to go hard at her rival, donald trump. a harris senior campaign official tells us that she's going to dial up the warnings about a potential trump return to the white house, specifically she's going to seize on his comments that you just mentioned about the enemy from within to argue that trump would behave in erratic and unhinged ways if he's given another term, that he would essentially view people who disagree with him as enemies and trample on their freedoms. harris is also running a new ad that features some former trump officials making the case

against him about how he would -- seizing on his remark about how he would use the national guard and perhaps maybe the military to deal with dissent. the former trump officials include olivia troye and kevin carroll, who argue his worst instincts would come out, essentially unchecked power. that's going to be the argument that you're going to hear from harris later tonight. now, let's take a minute to think about where we are. this is erie, pennsylvania. the winner of this county over the last four elections has won pennsylvania and the presidency. that was barack obama in '08 and '12. that was donald trump narrowly won it in 2016. won pennsylvania and the white house. joe biden again narrowly flipped it back in 2020. this is a bellwether county in perhaps the quintessential bellwether state that could decide who goes to the white house in january, alicia. >> sahil kapur, i know that you are competing right now with the vocals of katy perry. so hopefully you can hear me and this question. but you've been talking with voters. you can look at polls. your sense when you talk to

folks, how tight is this really? >> i can hear you, alicia, despite katy perry blaring through the halls of this arena. but yes to your question. this is an extremely tight race. the polling averages show kamala harris up but barely, by less than a point. that's margin of error stuff. it could change on a wlim. it could change on the basis of ground game, polling error. this race is dead even in pennsylvania as far as we can tell. now, there are a few keys for the harris campaign. i've talked to them. i've talked to her senior adviser for pennsylvania. one of the keys is to maximize her vote in the cities. pittsburgh and philadelphia. that's her bread and butter. she's got to supercharge that vote and the democratic base. the suburbs. especially the collar counties

they want to limit the margin of defeat. can she do that? unclear. she might have to make it up in other parts of the state like the suburbs. >> you let me dabble in the polls and persuasion and always come back to it is going to come down to turn out. >> 100%. i started in fuel organizing, so i am about the direct contact. the deployment of campaign staff and volunteers across the country is critical. she has an advantage but that.

when i think about erie, pennsylvania. and a big battleground state. i appreciate them mentioning the nikki haley voters. they are the 150,000+ who voted for her in the republican primary even after she dropped out of the race. they want anyone but trump. with this message of a threat of donald trump vice president harris is directly appealing to them and pennsylvania and will again in michigan. so this play is smart for kamala harris. it fully extends from her we are not going back slogan in a way that is concrete and real and tangible for voters because they see the impact of donald trump. when he says enemies within the know he is talking about anybody that doesn't vote for him. >> also if you can bring him back up. the poster behind him this is a new way forward.

always wonderful to see you and hear you. thank you so much for your reporting. thank you for spending the summer with us. we are going to sneak in a quick break and we will be right back. the brand i trust. are they really gonna spend all day streaming college football on directv? can you blame them? they've got the biggest rivalries... ...and bowl games! speaking of, frank run a slant to the bowl of chips. bobby, button-hook to the salsa. what are you gonna do coach prime? don't question your coach, man. our right to reproductive health care is being stolen from us. i can't believe this is the world we live in, where we're losing the freedom to control our own bodies. we need your support now more than ever. go online, call, or scan this code, with your $19 monthly gift. and we'll send you this "care. no matter what" t-shirt. it is your right to have safe health care. that's it.

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if i had been president it never would have happened. you have to decide how bad you want it. you have to decide. >> former president clinton with a message for democrats in georgia today just a day before the estate begins early voting making the case for the ticket and rural pockets of georgia. another high profile surrogate. the campaign putting on the road as the election is just 22 days away. already starting. also set to headline a bus tour through rural north carolina this week. we are going to sneak in another break. we will be right back. back. and that she will never forget how mom and daddy love her. saint jude-- maybe this is what's

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thank you so much for joining us this monday. do not fear. nicole will be back tomorrow. >> hello. thank you so much. 22 days at from election day and