election. we may not have a speaker of the house by january 6th. it's likely if republicans maintain the house in that scenario it's a small majority. they have two or three seats. if you have four or five republicans saying i'm not voting for mike johnson or anybody who is certifying the election we could end up in a constitutional crisis nobody is oversee is the house when we need to certify the results of the election. >> what we saw january 6th four years ago, we had never been there before but we may be barreling towards another unthinkable political moment in the weeks ahead. brendan buck, thank you so much. good stuff this morning and we will talk to you soon. thanks to all of you for getting up "way too early" for us on this wednesday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. >> she has been very, very bad to israeli and jewish people. if anybody i know is jewish and

they vote for kamala over me, they should have their head examined. if any senior doesn't vote for trump, we have to send you to a psychiatrist to have your head examined! i tell you what, any african america and hispanic you know who i'm standing for this, if you vote for kamala, you need to have your head examined because they are really screwing you. >> that is donald trump adding another group of voters to the running list of voters he said should get their head examined if they don't examine for him. he wrote, any catholic that votes for comrade kamala harris should have their head examined. the s&p 500 goes to record

levels time and time again and anybody who calls kamala harris a comrade. "the wall street journal" had a story every economist says her economic policies will be better for america, her economic policies will bring inflation down and trump's will bring inflation up and her economic policies are better on the deficit and the federal debt than donald trump's, maybe that person should get their head examined. willie, you know, sometimes you look at things and you just kind of let it go past you. it is a little strange. you think back. what did i see? i will tell, i saw more people saying what happened with donald trump for 39 minutes? >> yeah. >> when he was just standing up

on stage zoned out. what happened? fortunately for you and me, this part is not fortunate. mika is not feeling well. fortunately, she had 39 minutes to see the beginning to the end, of course, as she does and she keeps three cable channels streaming all day. ah! you said it was just absolutely bizarre. the people there were just, at times, just staring at him. they are not going to be a buddy film any time soon. not a lot of chemistry there. 39 minutes! i've never seen anything like it. you know, we kind of stayed away from it yesterday morning. alex and i had talked about this. i know you did, too. i'm not sure what happened so we don't want to dive too much in

to it. here we are 24 hours later, i still have no idea what is going on. like, here we are three weeks before the campaign and he is standing on stage and it's kind of like he just zones out and just quits. teleprompter is saying, sir, you can take more questions, sir. sir? and he just ignores it and just keeps playing and kind of wandering back and forth. very bizarre, willie. very bizarre. >> beyond bizarre. first of all, apparently, it's always just too sweltering hot in his events. he always complains about the heat and his advance team might the to look in that. it was warm in that room in philadelphia the other night and people stand a long time to get in there and people fainted and thank goodness the two people who fainted were fine.

normally, they they say let's stop, they are good, let's get on what we are doing. it was a town hall and waiting for questions from the audience. he said let's not do more questions and stop and listen to the music. maybe a song and he'll get back into it and maybe a buffer after the medical incident. instead, he listens to the songs and sways and dances. the question why? what was going on? why didn't he want to answer more questions? why was christy nome there. he swayed along. truly bizarre. they are all bizarre. all of his events increasely so.

>>increasingly. >> he had a live event on a stage we will play that and he said among other things tariff is one of his favorite words in the dictionary. these are not one off's. if you sit and watch, it's getting weirder by the day. >> slurring so many words. even in his speech last night, i think we are seeing signs of a 78-year-old man who, obviously, his -- has been through a trial, been through an attempted assassination, going through the rigors of this campaign and, right now, he is becoming more erratic by the day. it looked to me, this is my

guess, he just shut down. he tried to answer a question or two. he sort of made a joke before a gold star family came up on stage after he got shot at and christy said, sir, they lost their child in war. it's almost like he realized he was just sort of out of his depth and he wanted to stop talking because we have seen on saturday nights when he gets exhausted, you know, end of weeks when he has been doing things, we see him target to confuse joe biden with barack obama and world war ii to world war iii and making one mistake after another. my guess he figured this was the safest thing to do that he wasn't feeling it. and so look at that. again, just very strange. you know what else is strange,

willie? when you have one of the great shortstops in all of baseball who has a ball popped up to him by the mvp, you've got a chance to actually get were first out with two men on base and just like a little leaguer, drops the ball. that was a pretty crazy start to the yankees game but your new york yankees, they have done what they need to do and here is the pop-up. >> it was hit very, very high. rocchio is a gold glove level shortstop. that opened the score for the yankees. it was a weird sloppy game. gerrit cole was off his game and got away with a lot after he got chased. errors. pitching wasn't great on either side, honestly. then in the seventh inning,

aaron judge finally hit his first home run of the postseason, a bomb to center field. yankees win and up 2-0 for game three in cleveland tomorrow night. as a yankee fan you feel you got away with one. you didn't have gerrit cole's best and nice to see judge get a good swing on a ball there. he's had a couple of sac flies but no home runs. we will take it. >> cleveland's back is definitely against the wall. they have to win at least two in cleveland, i would say probably three. they probably have to sweep the yankees out in cleveland. unlikely before they come back to yankees stadium. right now it's looking like the guardians almost like the

indians. looking like the guardians first world series win since 1948 getting further away. >> dark days. we have lived 15 years would you the new york yankees being in the world series. we are on the verge of that streak ending. the guardians don't seem up to the moment moment. i agree they probably have to win all three at home and i don't think they have the pitching to do that. they have made errors. wild pitches. passed balls. flyballs and booting balls in the outfield. if you're the yankees, aaron judge, the best thing you saw there yesterday. if he starts to get hot and can carry them, then they are in great shape. also the action, baseball action in new york shifts across the town today, game three mets/dodgers and a raucous citifield! >> that will be exciting. let's bring in the host of msnbc "politics nation" reverend al

sharpton and also msnbc analyst and former missouri senator claire mccaskill. a poll came out that showed this race was tied. of course, "the new york times" also decided to do what they do every sunday and tell you why kamala harris is going to lose 49 states with "the new york times" poll and analysis and black men and hispanic men are gone, it's all over. she might as well give it up. that, coupled with the msnbc poll that showed it to be a dead heat. had psychiatrist business up about 47% on the upper east side and upper west side in new york and a lot of psychiatrists are doing extraordinarily well with democratic voters this campaign, as they did in 2008 when they were going to see 538 polling

averages every 14 seconds. since then, we have had one poll after another. we also have an abc poll and kamala plus 3. cbs poll, kamala plus 3 and another tracking poll, kamala plus 3 and the marist national poll has dropped and suggests maybe those stories about her momentum being blunted, just may be overselling the case for donald trump. >> yeah. so that was "the new york times" siena poll for upper west side therapists. this morning, marist poll finds kamala harris ahead 52% to 47%. a national poll. earlier this month, kamala harris was up just two points.

so five points instead of two. kamala harris took part in a town hall and she was asked about her plans and her record as a prosecutor. >> it's not just versus trump but you versus misinformation. >> that's true. >> one of the biggest allegations against you is that you targeted and locked up thousands of black men in san francisco for weeks. some say you did it to boost your career and some say you did it out of pure hate for black men. please tell us the facts. >> it's simply not true. what public defenders who were around those days will tell you i was the most progressive prosecutor in california on marijuana cases and would not send people to jail for simple possession of weed. as vice president, had been a champion for bringing marijuana down on the schedule, so instead

of it being ranked up there with heroin, we bring it down. my pledge as president, i will work on decriminalizing it because i know exactly how those laws have been used to disproportionately prosecute black men. it is purposeful. it is meant to convince people that they somehow should not believe that the work that i have done has occurred and has meaning. my work from the beginning of my career, through today, has been about, for example, we talked about it, whether it be on health care, i am similarly, many would say, one of the highest level leaders in our country to bring this to the stage of the white house to address it. the work that i've done that has

been about focusing on my knowledge and my experience and my life experience of knowing that the entrepreneurship we have in the communities and ambition and aspirations and dreams and tapping into that so that not only has my work been about ensuring that we have some of the lowest black unemployment ever in our country but also knowing that that should be a baseline that everybody has a job and what we should be invested in is also building wealth in the community and in to generation@wealth and i have many, many examples of that. but, again, part of the challenge that i face is that they are trying to scare people away because they know they otherwise have nothing to run on. ask donald trump what his plan is for black america. ask him. i'll tell you what it is. look at project 2025. project 2025 tells you the plan

includes making police departments stop and frisk policies. the plan includes making it more difficult for workers to receive overtime pay. the plan includes ending the -- he should we would, we did which means that is how we brought down the cost of prescription medication. his plan includes making it more difficult for working people to get by and to destroy our democracy. you know what he says he'll do? terminate the constitution of the united states. >> that is right. >> i grew up in the black church. i grew up attending 23rd avenue church of god in oakland, california. >> that is church. >> that is church. my pastor is amos c. brown. i have throughout my career and as vice president and recently

been actively engaged in the church and church leaders, gnome so we can share in fellowship, but so we can share in what we can do together that is about supporting the community, the strength of the community, the cohesion of the community and it is my longstanding work and, therefore, my pledge going forward, i will always work closely with the church because i understand who our church leaders are and who the congregation is. we are talking about people who are driven by faith and the ability to see what is possible. by faith, i was raised and i know many of us were, understanding that our god is a loving god, that our faith propels us to act in a way that is about kindness and justice and mercy, that is about lifting one another up. and let's talked about the the craft here. donald trump and his follower

spend full-time to finds the strength of the leader who you beat down which is contrary to the church i know. >> i sells bibles, though. >> my church and our church is true leadership and the measure of that is who you lift up. right. and then he is selling 60 dollar bibles! or tennis shoes. and trying to play people as that makes him more understanding of the black community. come on! >> you know, claire, brother pat buchanan and brother barnicle in the past, we are talking about political athletes. you're either a political athlete or you're not. watching that clip suggests actually you can grow into being a political athlete and something i've seen kamala harris do especially over the

last couple of -- you see her there and how effective she is. any trump person watching this show, take what she just said and take that interview and find any interview donald trump has done over the last nine years and stack them up. claire, you will find one candidate speaks in completely sentences and one candidate speaks in complete thoughts. one candidate can engage in detailed policy discussions. one candidate is capable mentally, intellectually, emotionally of being president of the united states. one is just simply not. it's out there for anybody to see. this has nothing to do with

ideolo ideologiy. i believe he is a threat to american capitalism. even if he weren't, donald trump compared to kamala harris, right now, is a distant, distant second. and, beyond that, spiritually. all of these evangelicals saying they are going to vote for him. listen to what he says about beating down people about blood, about a day of violence and hate rhett, calling people crazy if they don't vote for him, don't lift him up, don't give him power. what is kamala harris talking about? kindness, justice, and mercy. it sounds almost as if she has read a bible, unlike donald trump who makes bibles in china and then sells them to americans

at like 500% profit. your comments on kamala harris yesterday and what we have been seeing out of donald trump the last two days. >> yeah. i ji wish that we could do a side-by-side much his interview with bloomberg yesterday and her interview with chalamayne. i wish we would require every american citizen to watch them side-by-side and it is a stark contrast as she has gained in her stature, in her poise, in her ability to discipline and articulate a very clear message about what she did do and what her priorities will be as president. he is going the other way. she is rising to the moment and he is falling. look. i'm so glad you said that, joe, about setting aside all of the policy stuff that is dangerous

that he embraces and just look at his cognitive ability. he is hiding his medical records. he doesn't realize that he hasn't released his medical records. then he goes on to say that it's very dangerous that kamala harris has allergies. this is a weird, weird, weird turn here, that he is refusing, as the oldest man who has ever run for president, as a man who will be in his 80s sitting in the oval office. i get everyone was worried about joe biden being old. but you know what? joe biden did a gut check and said, yeah, i think i should pass the torch. not donald trump.

and people should be outraged he is hiding his medical records. he will not release them just like i predict he'll never do another interview with somebody who is not in the -- >> willie, he does seem to be slipping as quickly as she appears to be gaining. i think claire is right, he, you know, he sets himself up and is easy of a situation as you can with somebody who calls him "sir" every three words. and he can't answer more than four questions. he just sort of zones out. you have his people afraid to put him in a fox news debate with kamala harris and you have his people afraid to put him on "60 minutes." you have his people afraid to release his medical records.

you have his people cancelling on cnbc, one of trump's biggest fans on cnbc is joe kernin. he knows every time he does this, it sends badly. he goes on maria bortolomo. he talks about using the military and national guard against adam schiff and other democratic opponents. things seem to be blowing up on that side and kamala harris keeps doing better. i'm struck how well she did yesterday and what van jones' take was after that interview was over, over on cnn. he goes, she just turned black?

the only person to say that would be the whitest person in the world because she has been to black churches before. she knows what she is talking about. >> that is something donald trump has said about kamala harris. it is interesting to watch donald trump. he did finally, he went into -- maybe didn't know it was this way -- but adversarial interview yesterday and had a complete melt down and attacked the guy interviewing him and attacked "the wall street journal" when presented with facts and asked real questions. he couldn't handle it, which shows you why he didn't do "60 minutes." you're right. we are sitting here and listen to the word salad and what they are saying about that. let's go back to char lamayne. what is the work you believe kamala harris needs to do with

black voters? they were talking very specifically about black men yesterday but black voters, in general, if you feel she needs to do work still with under three weeks to go. what else should she be doing? >> i think she is doing what she should be doing. she is going to the black community, as well as others. she is unapologetic and going to gerald ford's old district the same weekend and she is doing others shows and my shows. i think she is doing what she should be doing and that is addressing all people, specifically dealing yesterday with the disinformation in the black community. i've known her since she was a district attorney. she was attacked for not feeling that marijuana arrests should be rise to the level of incarceration, although she did go after criminals and i give our viewers a secret. some of the criminals she went after were committing crimes against black people.

she was not anti-taking care of criminals. she just felt that some crimes didn't rise to the level of what we were seeing penalized the defendant. in terms of outcomes what it did to some of those communities. at the top of the show, we can't miss the fact that with all of the conversations about where our momentum is, yesterday, there were was record turnout in georgia for the first time of voting. over 300,000 people. they almost doubled the record of 2020, which was a record. when you see that kind of turnout and many of them 234 black -- in black districts you'll see how wrong the polls are. i'm voting today. rev render jesse jackson is joining us. all of these i go to the get out

to vote rallies, people are turning out so i think they are fooling themselves if they think the momentum is the other way. if you want to see somebody that can answer the questions and has a track record, and opposing to somebody who plays tracks and can't dance to the tracks, that is your choice. donald trump was embarrassing the other night to anybody that supports him. if i was there, i would have walked him off the stage if i was a supporter. how long do you let grandpa stand there and humiliate the family? >> a lot of people at the rally came to see him wondering is this the end of it to start streaming out as he continued to dance. a great point you bring up. the early voting in georgia and we will bring that up in our next segment. smashing early voting records as you say in that state. we talked specifically about the black voters numbers what she needs to do to bring those up to 2020 or 2016 levels.

let's take a step back more broadly. there is panic among the democrats and talking about "the new york times" polls how she is losing p.m. people inside our campaign will say it's coming down to the last day and last vote and tight in these states. where will you be looking the last 20 days or so as pivotal to who wins this election? >> i'll be looking at pennsylvania. i'll be looking at north carolina which could go her way. i'll be looking at georgia. if that happens, it's over. i think that the get out the vote efforts of many nonpartisan groups and the concerted effort by the harris campaign is going to tell the story. what i've observed is there is no real underground infrastructure on the trump side. it's all personality driven. it's all about what trump does at the top. it's going to be about who is going to pull out their votes, who can deliver those voters to the polls.

trump is betting on trying to use some kind of legal mechanisms to prolong the results. we have for the good of the country and the campaign to the kamala harris that we don't stall democracy. >> yeah. jonathan lemire, it's interesting. people say national polls don't matter and for the most part we don't focus on national polls but we always look at trend lines. i've always said i've looked at trend lines. everybody is obsessing. reverend al was talking about the polls. maybe the polls are bad. i've talked to people internally. you talk to people who are straight, they will tell you it is a very close race. but, again, after the nbc poll came out and showed it was a tied, 48/48, i think it was, you know, democrats started getting on the ledge. they didn't, again, pay attention. you look at all of the polls around that. argument the momentum stalled. remember, they always end up

saying that. the momentum stalled. there is a "the new york times"/cnn poll coming out saying it has stalled but it doesn't. it came up. you look at the national polls, they are all breaking in our direction. nbc is tied and cbs and abc plus 3. the tip national tracking poll, the most accurate poll in 2020 had harris plus 3. that lead this morning goes to plus 4 in the tip national poll. the marist poll, plus 5 right now. . this is going to be a close race and when you see numbers, real numbers like what is going on in georgia, suddenly, you feel like telling democrats that are bitching and moaning what the harris campaign is doing, hey, calm down. you know what? victory is in sight in less than

three weeks. if you go out and work hard and do your job. the opponent is imploding and harris is doing better than ever. >> you talked to both campaigns and people inside both acknowledge this race is very, very tight. >> it's tied. >> the trump said we are going to win. harris side says we will keep working hard. i think destructive to look at the last couple of days. trump has this bizarre moment he is dancing and swaying on stage. i will say of all the conversation on this show what we talk about there should be more focus on trump's mental acutity and this moment soms to have -- seems to have broken through in the main street. with the exception of one event yesterday, trump is where they don't want him exposed anywhere. harris make all-out push for the black vote this week as reverend sharpton just detailed. they have a number of events. the other thing theme this week

is targeting republicans. diseffective republicans and she is appearing later today with others. grand rapids, home of gerald ford, going there today. she is trying to create the structure to say, republicans, even if it's just this once, you can vote for a democrat. >> jonathan, you know, what is so interesting? this is tearing a page out of the obama playbook. you can sense that david plouffe is saying when they go to grand rapids, we will do what obama did in iowa and go to counties we are going to lose and instead of losing by 80%, we will loss 65%. you start adding these up and it makes a difference. the fact she is going to places

like savannah and grand rapids, suggest this campaign nay, they may be saying behind the scenes, we don't know, this looks tough, but they are actually doing the obama strategy. they are expanding the map, whether it's in georgia or in michigan. it's a fascinating strategy. we will see if it works. >> tim walz was in wisconsin yesterday and harris goes a pretty leaning republican district in wisconsin this week, to that point. ed, the harris team, they got a plan but they do acknowledge it's going to be really, really close and you've written in your new piece, even if she wins and you've made clear the dangers this nation and world would face in trump wins, but you're writing if harris wins, the air of bitter polarization likely continues. tell us about it. >> i look at four scenarios, the best of which is harris winning

but the democrat retaining the senate and regaining the house. that would, i think, enable something like normal governance to resume in the united states. i don't think that is the most likely scenario. i think probably a combination of harris winning but losing the senate, or trump winning but the becomes regaining the house are likely scenarios. of course, the dread one, the one where we would be in completely unchartered waters is if trump wins and republicans regain the senate and retain the house. and then we have basically, if you combine that with the supreme court ruling in june, the immuity ruling that trump would have -- then a green light for trump to remake america as all-ban putin democracy to go

after his enemies and to act on what he said about people like the former chairman of the joint chiefs of staff being a traitor, many other people he has called traitors. he has a green light. he has a mandate, essentially to do what he likes. if there is no check from the judicial branch and no check from the legislative branch that having been taken over by republicans, we are in to a different game here. so, you know, i would get back to that, first scenario, kamala harris winning, the democrats retaping the senate and retaking the house, that is the one that we should all be hoping for. conservatives and democrats alike. if you want normal, grown-up predictable governance, that is the only scenario that we should be hoping for. it's not just about the presidency and i'll say one

other thing, taking a leaf as joe said out of barack obama campaign in '08 and take a leaf out of bill clinton rally. the chicken followed him around wherever he was. they had a michigan chicken. they had an ohio chicken george. right down to counties. lehigh county chicken george. they need to follow trump around with chickens saying, debate me. debate kamala harris because he would lose that debate and that is why he is refusing to debate. she needs to shame him. he can be shamed. >> he already lost one debate to kamala harris. he doesn't want to do that again and she does talk more about him, to your point, ed, about shaming him and his behavior and did that yesterday in that interview as well. a live report from georgia

is coming up amid record turnout on the first day of early voting in that key state. plus, bob woodward joins us to you talk about the revelation in his book "war." there is chopper 4, the house that derek jeter built. yankees up 2-0. mets are up tonight. 2-0 mets are up tonight.

we always had dogs, they're like my best buddies. yep, had them my whole life. c'mon bo! so we got him and he is a, an absolute joy. daddy's puppy. once we got on the farmer's dog he just attacks it, it's incredible. they're so tuned into you and they have such, such personality. being without a dog, i don't know, can't imagine it. [laughter]

just hours after polls opened in georgia yesterday, the state smashed its early voting record. more than 300,000 georgians turned out to vote ahead of next month's presidential election that is according to the office of the secretary of state. joining us now is political reporter for the "atlanta journal-constitution", greg buktan. a staggering number when it was posed yesterday by the secretary of state. can you talk about in perspective what that number looks like? >> i think it caught some state athletic officials off-guard and it shattered all sorts of record but i caution reading too much into these numbers. we saw heavy turnout and we are not sure which party it will help most. we don't know how many of these folks are going to be voters who are new voters, who are switching, you know, crossover voters or, frankly, voters who

were just voting early. a lot going on here. we do know the republicans this cycle are putting a great emphasis on early voting than they have in georgia in the past as well and even at donald trump's rally last night in georgia, there was all sorts of messaging about make a plan to vote and that used to be primarily democratic language here in georgia in the 2020 and 2018. >> it was interesting to hear donald trump in georgia praising governor kemp, somebody he has attacked and insulted consistently. it's almost like somebody got to him and said, sir? you need to win the state of georgia. this is key. stop messing around. what is your sense of things on the ground there right now? >> i think what is surprising republicans here in georgia is that truce is holding. donald trump's last rally in atlanta was back in early august and when he went on that surprise ten-minute tirade

against governor kemp and his wife and other allies of the governor. since then, you know, there has been a calming of the waters and that truce and they had that in-person reconciliation a few days in the city of augusta and it's held. i don't know how long it's going to hold. i was texting with some of kim's allies doing the rally last night and they are not exactly sure how long it's going to hold but look. . for republicans in georgia, if they can win back, if donald trump can win back those split ticket voters that moved toward joe biden and rafael warnock they can win this race. >> a fascinating dynamic you have donald trump calling governor kemp a liar for saying that trump lost the 2020 election. governor kemp being called a liar by donald trump because

governor kemp told the truth about getting hurricane reef and donald trump attacking governor kemp's wife and we will see how long it holds. greg, as an atlanta native, we should probably stop and remember yesterday, i think, was -- not the 30th. whatever. yesterday was the anniversary of sid "the kid" bream making it to home base and limping home in 1992 as the atlanta braves make it to the world series. >> a day, a smile stone i still remember being in in the basement of my parents' house watching that 32 years ago. that moment still indelible in my mind. >> i stayed up in dalton, georgia, listening a lot of times to the braves lose and that was a night to remember. i'll say one more thing about sports and then another

political question, i promise you. as a bulldog fan, what do you think about vegas making georgia 3 1/2 point underdogs against texas? seriously? you're giving kirby smart and the georgia bulldogs the most dominant team in college football the last couple of years, you're giving them 3 1/2 points? all i can say is good luck with that. >> yeah. it's bulletin board material for our bulldogs,tuscaloosa, even though georgia lost, i know you're a huge crimson tide fan. that is one of the best games i've seen and it doesn't seem your crimson tide has recovered since the second half of that game, really? >> i know. it's horrible we beat you guys again. i said that -- i've never had a win feel more like a loss than that game. it suggested that georgia was

not to be underestimated' alabama was not to be overestimated. let me ask you this, about undervotes. talk about making the people that voted for the republicans and others vote for trump, there is also the possibility of under votes. i'm curious. just from your reporting, what is your sense those northern suburbs of atlanta? i had friends that went to alabama that stayed in birmingham and friends that went to alabama that moved back to atlanta and it was just like a dividing line. i think we have talked about it before. people in birmingham mostly voted for trump in 2020. i couldn't find one atlanta republican that i knew that voted for trump. there was a real divide. i'm curious. what is your feeling about those

northern suburbs that this race can swing on? >> that is my territory and that is where i live. i live in an area in north atlanta suburbs that used to be solidly republican and split decisively toward democrats. we have a democratic mayor. not a generation ago but maybe a decade ago to have that flip. there are republicans who hold their nose and vote for trump and there are republicans who cross over and maybe not tell their friends and vote for kamala harris. i talked to one republican saying she is not voting for donald trump and she is voting for j.d. vance and how she framed it in her mind. not voting for trump but voting for his running mate. that is going on to reconcile with folks' decisions as i'm

sure others doing that. that trend has accelerated over georgia the last three cycles. >> i note you left out america's people, the vanderbiltectomy doors. they play ball state this weekend. watch out for that one. >> anchor down. >> anchor down. i'm rooting for them. >> we dodge you this year. thank goodness. election security in georgia to ever lasting credit. brad raffensperger and governor kemp there and the team secured the election in 2020 and stood up to donald trump saying you lost and we counted the votes three times and including by hand and you lost every time we did that. the secretary of state raffensperger announcing new security measures around the election. what else can you tell us about that? >> it is what it always has been

which is the state officials, not just secretary of state brad raffensperger but other republican officials are backing up raffensperger on this one saying the vote is free and fair in georgia and that voters can have confidence in the integrity of their vote. there was a pair of rulings yesterday that cited essentially with the secretary of state and against the republican controlled state election board, that donald trump had promoted, it touted the three vote majority on that board and was trying to make these last-minute changes. those last-minute efforts, at least some of them, were blocked by fulton county judge who said there shouldn't be hand counting of the number of ballots at each election site, that local officials said would just bog down the whole process. it looks like we are going to have a hopefully quicker than expected count because the longer that could happen, the more conspiracy theories and misinformation could spread about georgia's vote in

november. >> raffensperger saying yesterday we have done everything we can to be transparent to show the people who matters, it's up to the voters and we are just to report the final reports. political reporter greg bluestein, thank you for being on the show. >> thank you. >> trump was interviewed by editor in chief of bloomberg news. here is a clip. >> the committee for responsible federal budget, which is a bipartisan outfit, could have some predictions the other day. if you add up all of the promises you've made and your plans would add 7.5 trillion dollars to the debt. >> uh-huh. >> that is more than twice the total for vice president harris. your on course to push debt up to 12 -- 150% of g.d.p.

why should they trust for you that? >> we are about growth and she has no growth and we are lab growth. we will bring companies back to our country. you look at even today as i was driving over, i see these empty old beautiful like steel mills and factories that are empty and falling down. some have been converted to senior citizens homes but that will not do the trick. we will bring the companies back and we will lower taxes further for companies making their products in the usa and protect those companies with strong tariffs. i'm a believer in tariffs. i am but i'm not sure you are but i congratulate you in your career. to me, the most beautiful word in the dixary is tariff. tariff. and it's my favorite word. it needs a public relations firm. >> will you commit now to respecting and encouraging a peaceful transfer of power? >> well, you had a peaceful

transfer of power -- >> you had a peaceful transfer -- come on, president trump, you had a peaceful transfer of power compared with venezuela, but it was by far the worst transfer of power for a long time. >> the primary scene in washington was hundreds of thousands, the largest group of people i've ever spoken before, and i've spoken. and it was love and peace. and some people went to the capitol and a lot of strange things happened there. a lot of strange things with people being waved into the capitol by police, with people screaming, go in, that never got into trouble, you know? i don't want to mention names. but you know who they are? a lot of strange things happened. but you had a peaceful -- a very peaceful -- i left. i left the morning that i was supposed to leave. i went to florida. and you had a very peaceful transfer. >> you talked a lot about tariffs. you look at the american economy.

40 million jobs rely on trade that accounts for 27% of gdp. if you cut that off, that's going to have an effect on many, many business people here. tariffs also have another side. isn't that something that you have to acknowledge? >> no. >> you could be plunging america into the biggest trade war since smoot/hawley -- >> no. >> there are tariffs already. >> there are no tariffs. all you have to do is build your plant in the united states and you don't have any tariffs. >> but people in a lot of places like this, they rely -- there are a lot of jobs that rely on foreigners coming here. you're going to basically stop trade with china. you're talking about 60% trade on that, 60% tariffs on that. you're talking, as you said, 100, 200% on things you don't really like. talking about 10, 20% tariffs on the rest of the world. that is going to have a serious effect on the overall economy. and yes, you're going to find some people who will gain from individual tariffs. the overall effect could be massive. >> i agree, it's going to have a massive effect. positive effect. it's going to be a positive, not

a negative. >> just -- >> no, no, i know how committed you are to this. and it must be hard for you to spend 25 years talking about tariffs as negative. and have somebody explain to you that you're totally wrong. >> the markets are looking at the fact, you are making all of these promises, the latest one was car loans, you're flooding the thing with giveaways. i was actually quite kind to you. i used $7 trillion. the upper estimate was $15 trillion. >> oh, you can forget. >> people like "the wall street journal," who's hardly a communist organization. they have criticized you on this as well. you are running up enormous debt. >> what does "the wall street journal" know -- i'm meeting with them tomorrow. they've been wrong about everything. so have you, by the way. >> you're trying to turn this -- >> you're wrong. >> you're trying to turn this into a debate. there are businesspeople -- >> you're wrong. you've been wrong. you've been wrong all your life on this stuff. mercedes benz will start building in the united states, and they have a little bit.

but you know what they really are? assembly -- like in south carolina, but they build everything in germany, and they assemble it here. they get away with murder. they say, yes, we're building cars. they don't build cars. they take them out of a box and assemble them. we could have our child do it. >> that's donald trump at the economic club of chicago yesterday, being interviewed by the editor in chief of bloomberg, john michalwaif. that was about 5 minutes of 64 minutes of exactly that. confronted with facts, asked real adversarial questions, and attacked the guy. asking the question, attacked "the wall street journal," cross your arms like you're a toddler, never answering the questions. smattering of applause from some people in the room. >> yeah, you would like to find out what businesses they actually run to be applauding that stuff. >> you watched all 64 minutes, bless you. what did you think? >> i'm with claire mccaskill on this. if you ran the interview that kamala harris did yesterday and then run the interview that

donald trump just did yesterday with john mackelwaif at the chicago board of economics, you would be stunned between the two in terms of competence, in terms of leadership, about what you know in terms of today's economy. i'm stunned that "the new york times," at least in the print edition this morning, didn't have much space to actually write about what he did yesterday in chicago. what trump said yesterday in chicago. i'm stunned that the united autoworkers haven't had a rebuttal to what donald trump said yesterday. basically, that they're building cars out of a box that's shipped to them and you open up the box and put the thing together and run them down the assembly line. an amazing display of total economic ignorance yesterday in chicago. >> there was so much in there. when he's asked a question he knows he's wrong about, he changes the subject, joe. among his other comments, he said google, the search algorithm, is rigged against him and called google to ask why they only put up bad stories about him. also was asked about whether or

not he's been in contact with vladimir putin since he left office. again, refused to answer but said, if i have been, that would be a good thing. that was donald trump yesterday. >> yeah, i don't think anybody in the united states government or any of our allies would think it's a good thing that donald trump is talking to vladimir putin, a man who considers america to be russia's enemy. i'm going to get to ed with the "financial times," obviously. ed with the "financial times," america's editor for the "financial times" in a second. but i want to go to claire mccaskill, because this is how donald trump operates. he says so many outrageous things, claire, that he gets away with it. and we've got to stop on january the 6th, when donald trump it was a day of love and peace. four police officers died. their families blame it directly

on january the 6th. police officers had the hell beaten out of them. there was an attempt, though i'm shocked by how many republicans have now sort of washed this from their brains, and tried to make this partisan. there was an attempt by donald trump to have mobs break in to the united states capitol and stop the constitutional counting of the votes, of the electoral college. and to officially certify the winner. and donald trump, still saying it's much ado about nothing. it was love and peace. there was a peaceful transition of power. by the way, the tell on the smattering of applause that they were trump hacks in the office, when he said, we did have a

peaceful transition, it was about love and peace. and they started applauding, as on cue like seals. and it just -- it shows you, i'm so glad he showed himself again -- to again say that january 6th was a good thing. that's what he thinks, still. >> yeah. it's that sold saying. who are you going to believe? me or your lying eyes? no one forgets the video of what happened as the mob breached the capitol. no one forgets the flag poles being used as weapons, attempts to gouge out police officers' eyes. and i think he said yesterday that there were only like 500 or 600 or 800 people that went to the capitol. 1,300 people have been charged with federal crimes from that day. those are just the folks that were charged with crimes. and here's the thing about that day that i hope people remember.

i wish we had video of it. i wish somebody on his staff that knew what a danger he was to the world would have taken video. he sat in his dining room, which is just off the oval office, watching the tvs up on the wall, watching the violence ensue, watching the police officers under attack. he watched it all. and when everyone around him said, you've got to do something, he was really happy to do nothing. nothing to stop what was going on. he liked it, america! he liked the fact that people were attacking police officers for him. it's not about you, ever. it's just about him. that's what that day was all about. he finally, after hours, was forced almost, to a microphone, and even then, he couldn't bring himself to say what he should have said.

so, i honestly can't believe they areycophants all over -- you watch, they're all over fox everywhere saying, it was a peaceful transfer of power, it was a peaceful transfer of power. they're trying to sandblast january 6th out of america's memory. don't let it happen. >> well, unfortunately, and again, history will be harsh on those that are trying to sane wash donald trump and also to just push january 6th to the side and suggest it was much to do about nothing, which is what they do. it's what they've been doing on other networks. certainly have not been doing it "the wall street journal" editorial page, let me say. not the actual editorials. there are people who write on that page, who will suggest that it was much to do about nothing, which is shameful and disgraceful, especially since some of these people worked in

past republican administrations. ed, so we've talked about that part of his interview. let's now talk about donald trump saying that, quote, we're about growth. and yet, he talks about tariffs, that "the wall street journal" editorial page, and just about every competent economist says, we'll cripple american businesses. we'll cripple american growth. tariffs, of course, made the depression a great depression, smoot/hawley. that's something that every politician since then has been smart enough to realize. and yet, donald trump is all in on tariffs. he's all in on massive federal deficits. he's all in on massive federal debt. he's all in on policies that make absolutely no economic sense, for 99% of americans. and by the way, again,

conservative economists are saying it, moderate economists are saying it, "the wall street journal" editorial page has been saying it, about, you know, so many of donald trump's policies. they make no sense at all. and i know the "financial times" has, too. because, actually, mike barnicle asked a great question. those clowns that were clapping about tariffs being his favorite word. i wonder what businesses they run. because they're not big businesses that actually want to compete in the marketplace. >> yeah, i mean, that business almost all businesses that make anything or provide services will have components and inputs from all over the world. from different parts of the world, because their economy is specialized, and different people do different things well. if the cost of those inputs go shooting up, which they would with the trump tariffs, then the cost of their products will become much more expensive, and

much less competitive. they won't be able to export them, because they'll be priced out of export markets. remember, america is built on having a booming export history. that's what industrialized america. with with regards to smoot/hawley, i saw him try to ask trump about tariffs. as you say, smoot/hawley helped turn a mild depression into a great depression. it then led other countries to retaliate, which is what would happen today. and it dug america deeper. it wasn't until fdr came in. it wasn't until 1933 that america began to sort of row back the effects of acts like smoot/hawley. that is what trump is proposing for today. it would be a tax on working class americans. and at the same time, he would be passing tax breaks for the elon musk of this world.

this has to be driven home. he calls this a plan for the people. it's a plan for the plutocrats. and most plutocrats wouldn't gain, either. but it's a plan for the plutocrats. >> and it's inflationary and that leads to higher interest rates, the knock-on goes on and on and on. he likes to brag, rev, about having gone to the wharton school of business. this is the stuff they teach the first day, first week, first month at wharton. >> but when you look at the fact that he was president when we had the supply chain disruption. he had nothing to protect consumers against price gouging that was going on then. and i think we were like $8.3 trillion in debt. so he is a guy that shows that he doesn't know what he's talking about. despite having gone to wharton. and now he's talking about tariffs, which would only make the consumers have to pay more, because what are the people going to do? they're going to raise the prices if they have to deal with tariffs.

i didn't go to wharton, i was in church, but i found out what that is. >> i think most people do. so you watched a bunch of that conversation, that interview, and it wasn't just about tariffs, it wasn't just about economic policy. the whitewashing of january 6th. we can't say it enough, because j.d. vance said the same thing in a vice presidential debate. there was a peaceful transfer of power. for that one hour, i would remind people that the capitol still ringed by security fencing, so that it could be peaceful. maybe it was. but that ignores everything that led up to that day. >> it ignores the fact that he told the people, we're going to the capitol. i'm going to meet you. he incited what happened there. and watched it happen and did nothing to try to stop the violence. and you have capitol police that have testified and have gone public including on this network, talking about how their lives was in danger, how people died that day, to act like that was nothing is to really

ridicule the facts and to really, in my opinion, give a real disregard to the lives that were lost and the dangers that was there, including his vice president. he's actually just dismissing the value of their lives. and to have this kind of person or this kind of thinking return to the white house, is frightening, which is why many of us are saying, let's get out the vote. i'm on my way to columbus, ohio, now. and we are looking at not whether you think donald trump or kamala harris is good people, is who can govern and who believes in the principles of this country, despite gender and race, you may be. what is going to be right for this country. >> all right, rev. we'll let you get on the road to ohio. reverend al sharpton, u.s. national editor at the "financial times," ed luce, appreciate it. i mentioned ago, the economic

club of chicago. in bob woodward's new book, he reports that trump has spoken several times to vladimir putin since he left office. trump was confronted about that yesterday. >> you just mentioned putin, though, and there has been this controversy the past week. can you say yes or no whether you have talked to vladimir putin since you stopped being president. >> well, i don't comment on that, but i will tell you that, if i did, it's a smart thing. if i'm friendly with people, if i have a relationship with people, that's a good thing, not a bad thing, in terms of a country. he has 2,000 nuclear weapons and so do we. china has a lot less, but they'll catch us within five years. >> that sounds very much like you did talk to him. >> no, i don't talk about that. >> a non-answer that answers the question. let's bring in the associate editor at "the washington post," bob woodward himself. he's the author of the new book, "war" featuring the revelation, among many others, that trump has spoken to putin several times since leaving the white house.

bob, good morning. what's your reaction given your reporting to that answer from donald trump yesterday? >> i mean, it's the classic trump. if i did it, it was smart. so it's contingent on the "if," the relationship between putin and trump has really got to be at the core of our attempt to understand trump. and there's lots of footsie here. trump has said lots of public things. i tried to dig into this more. and their aides report calls, but you know, we're on the trail. and the non-denial denial we just heard takes us another mile on that trail, i think. >> so bob, so much of the book, of course, is looking at the biden administration's handling of the war in ukraine and

israel. but there's a pervasive theme of danger here, of trump's presence. that he looms. tell us a little bit more about a remarkable conversation that you had with chairman mark milley, the joint chiefs of staff and the warning he delivered. >> this is the number one military man in the country. very well respected, outspoken. and he told me, just, you know, volunteer to, he said, look, trump is the most dangerous person out there. he's a fascist to the core. and that's pretty tough stuff. now, whether you want to say trump is a fascist or whatever, he's -- you know, i'm trying to -- this is a little unusual, trying to think about the undecided voter, who looks at this contest between trump and

vice president harris. and what sort of things beyond policy might somebody ask? and that is, well, does this person have the capacity to plan? does trump plan? have you ever seen any evidence of trump planning? >> he tells you the plan is coming in two weeks. >> yeah, well, we'll all be -- it's hazy and it's gauzy. well, government decision making is too important. you have to try to think it out. the other element you would want is somebody who has a team, right? whose trump's team? >> at this point, it would be loyalists. and no more guard rails in a second term. >> but trump's team -- who's his national security adviser or somebody who's giving him information? it all comes from trump.

it is unplanned and absent a team. we all know in our work, you have editors, producers, people. you work together for a common purpose. trump, no. no. no team. it is unplanned, verbal escalation. he will just kind of say anything and so you have to think, you're really trying to get to the bottom of who he is. and it's, indeed, worrisome, that he can't plan and doesn't have a team. >> hey, bob. the core of this new book, "war," your latest revelations about washington, d.c., we are now three months from the end of the biden presidency. two weeks from the election of an incoming president. but the biden presidency itself,

it's now focused on israel, on russia, on ukraine on the increasingly volatile middle east. give me your outline right now for the -- what the biden administration has done that has benefited the world? >> okay. i mean, i really look at this as a reporter. it's not a partisan judgment, but i think in december of 2021, biden's decision to not send ground troops to ukraine was central. why? because that's where he'd get in trouble. that's all about vietnam. as you know, biden is somebody who witnessed vietnam and saw how we got entangled and

literally, he just said, we're not sending ground troops to ukraine. his national security adviser, jake sullivan, was pushing back, saying, wait a minute, why don't -- are we sure, don't we want to bluff? don't we want to think about this? biden said, absolutely not. now, what is the benefit of that? not having ground troops in these wars, does one thing which is the probably number one job of a president of the united states, and that is to protect the homeland. and at the end, you look at the biden presidency. he's had this team, extraordinary team, not perfect by any means. but that team has kept the

homeland secure. and you know, what is the value of that? i don't know. you can't put dollars on it. you can't -- you can just say, wow. we are in a much better position at the end of the biden presidency, whenever it comes. and whoever takes over. that is -- that is a gift. that is a gift to america. and not just democrats, but, indeed, republicans. >> so, bob, you talked about this unplanned verbal escalations. you talked about the fact that he didn't have advisers around him. there's a quote you got from lindsey graham saying, going to mar-a-lago is a little bit like going to north korea. everybody stands up and laps

every time trump comes in. so he doesn't have the advisers. he doesn't have the sort of the leveling wind that i know i want all leaders to have. other people that can talk to him. so you've been around him a long time. i have known him a long time, and talked to him a good bit up until he got into the white house and even a couple of times after he got into the white house. the one thing that i want us to really, really talk through today is, you know, i had said to him many times in the past, before, you know, his political career really took off. you know, you say all of these really terrible things. all of these -- like, if you talked about the economy, and ran a traditional republican race, you'd win, right? and yet, he always has to go to

violent rhetoric. you know, the army and the national guard, he says a couple of days ago and doubles down on it last night, should arrest his political opponents. i remember back before the election in 2020, he was pressuring his attorney general barr to arrest joe biden and his family, two weeks before the election. he, of course, talks about being a dictator on day one. he talks about terminating the constitution, about pulling cbs' license. about a military tribunal for liz cheney. we all know people who love american democracy and this constitution republic know all of these things are deeply offensive. we also know that for most politicians, it would damage their standing. this race is a 50/50 tie and this is my question to you as a reporter that has spent so much time with him. why does he always go to this

violent rhetoric? why does he make these violent threats? why does he make these violent claims when he knows that if he just talked about the economy, he would likely do better? is he telling us -- is he creating a permission structure so when he gets elected, he can run through madisonian checks and balances? >> i think he wants to show he's tough. being tough is central to trump's self-persona. he thinks that that's powerful. i mean, the trouble with all of that, that the basics of decision making, debating, weighing, just does not take part. in trump's circle.

and this is why there's no planning. who's the team. who's the team? you have producers, joe. i have editors, thank god. and you need a group working on a common problem. it's trump off working on these problems himself. and just to go back to an example. the last year of his presidency, 2020, i did 19 interviews with him over nine hours. now, 2020 was the year of covid. and how he handled covid, it turns out, took me months to lay all of this out, but he was warned on january 28th of that year by his national security advisers and experts that this

virus is coming to the united states. it's going to be like the pandemic that struck in 1918, killing 150,000 people. what did trump do? oh, it's going to go away. don't worry. don't worry. and i was interviewing him all year about this as the pandemic exploded, as he closed down the government. and i remember in the summer -- i mean, this -- there were moments that just stick in your head, as a human being, hopefully, and a reporter. july 20th, 2020, the coronavirus has taken over the country. and i ask, i say, what's the

plan, mr. president? what are you going to do? and he literally said, i'll have a plan in 106 days. i was baffled. what? 106 days was the election. he's thinking about the election, not the job of being president. i asked, common, what's the job of the president? he said, to protect the people and he failed. >> bob, claire mccaskill here. take a minute to contrast. i was appreciative of the effort you made in the book to talk about joe biden's team, and joe biden's plan. and you've spent some time talking about how trump doesn't have a team zpunt have a plan. take us a second and talk about the difference between these two administrations when it comes to national security. >> not just national security,

everything that they plan. but look in the national security area, and this is not the politics of this, this is the doing the job of it. biden's national security adviser, jake sullivan, one of the smartest people around, yes, he's made mistakes, but very tough, very organized. they meet, bill burns, the cia director, incredibly informed previously experienced, is a diplomat. the u.s. ambassador to moscow years ago. he knew putin in putin's early years. tony blinken, the secretary of state, probably as close to biden as anyone, has traveled the world and listened and tried

to calm things down. i have accounts of meetings that blinken has or with the national security council. and the theme always is, let's reduce violence, let's listen to each other, let's not do crazy things. lloyd austin, the secretary of defense, really an astonishing person. i probably shouldn't go into this detail, but i will. i'm interviewing him a couple of months ago and i have a transcript of a call he made to the russian defense minister. literal, verbatim, account. and i -- he didn't know i had it. and i started reading it out. and he said, that's accurate!

that's accurate! rather than running from it, say, yeah, okay, that's accurate. so, you know, there are more people. have they done a perfect job? no. they've made mistakes, obviously. go back to that theme. is the homeland safe? yes. now, that may change in one second. it's not something that's predictable, but they've had to process a way of debating, a way of going through. this is what we're going to do. this is how we're going to confront people. when lloyd austin calls his counterpart in russia and he -- right out of the bat -- right off the bat, he says, we know

you're planning to use a tactical nuclear weapon. don't do it! this is why. and a very profound list of reasons why using a nuclear weapon will change the world and would not help russia. so at the end, the defense minister of russia, shoygu, says to austin, he said, i don't like being threatened. and austin says, mr. minister, i am head of the most powerful military in the history of the world. of the world. i don't make threats. >> and general milley telling bob in the book, quoted here, speaking of trump, he is the most dangerous person ever and a fascist to the core. that is donald trump's chairman of the joint chiefs of staff. the new book, "war," we've just

scratched the surface. it is on sale now. so much more in here. bob woodward, thanks so much for being here. we appreciate it. >> thank you. coming up next on "morning joe," one of our guests says the upcoming election causing him to question the fundamental decency of america. the atlantic's pete weiner joins us to explain. e atlantic's petes us to explain. humana medicare advantage plans. carry this card and you could have the power to unlock benefits beyond original medicare. these are convenient plans that offer all of the benefits of original medicare, plus extra coverage and benefits. with a humana medicare advantage plan, you could get doctor, hospital and prescription drug coverage in one convenient plan. most plans include routine dental, vision, even hearing benefits. there's also a cap on your out-of-pocket medical expenses. that's more than you get with original medicare. and humana offers zero-dollar or low

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“jill stein. i like her very much. you know why? she takes 100% from them.” i'm kamala harris and i approve this message.

every president has to cut their own path. that's what i did. i was loyal to barack obama, but i cut my own path as president. that's what kamala is going to do. she's been loyal so far, but she's going to cut her own path. how to further economic growth. how to make it easy to start and grow business. how to make the border even more secure. how to make housing even more affordable. how to make child care more affordable. all of which we do grows the economy and cuts the deficit. folks, kamala will take the country in her own direction, and that's one of the most important differences in the election. kamala's perspective is fresh and new. donald trump's perspective is old and failed, and quite frankly, thoroughly, totally dishonest. >> president biden campaigning for vice president harris.

claire mccaskill, vice president harris has taken some pains to say, we love joe biden, we appreciate everything he's done for the country, but i am not joe biden, trying to separate herself a little bit from his legacy. how difficult is that for a sitting vice president? >> well, it's hard. it's why vice presidents traditionally never, ever get elected president, very rarely in our history have vice presidents succeeded in what kamala harris is trying to do. and the reason is, americans always want change, in every election. they want change. and her challenge in the next three weeks is to continue to build on the notion that she is the change that people are looking for. and she can't do that if she doesn't break away from biden in some respect. he is now giving her permission. i would say, go for it, kamala harris. take the permission he has given you from a podium to cut your own path. i think the only answer she's

given since she became the candidate was on "the view" when she was asked if there's anything that she would have done differently. and she said, i can't think of anything. so, you know, the border comes to mind, immediately. it seems to me the border, that would have been a time to talk about the border. but i think she's been so focused on being a good vice president, she now needs to leave that behind and go for it. and be the candidate of change that america is looking for. >> so, off of what claire's very sensible suggestion would be, i would be surprised if some time in the next ten days or so, sooner rather than later, that kamala harris doesn't indicate that maybe they were a little too hesitant, a little too slow in responding to immigration at the border. >> yeah. and that's a point she's tried to make again and again in these interviews, that she is different from joe biden, on that issue as well. donald trump, meanwhile, doubling down on calling democrats enemies from within. the former president first made the comments over the weekend on fox news.

his minions desperately tried to spin what he said into something it wasn't. and yesterday, trump repeated those comments during a taped town hall with fox news in front of an audience of all-women voters. fox did not release any advance clips of that town hall, just the transcript. is it set to release this morning. meanwhile, mark esper who served in the trump administration said, the american people should trump take very seriously when he suggests that he would use the military against american citizens. >> do you fear that he would try to utilize the national guard, the military against u.s. citizens? >> yes, i do, of course, because i lived through that and i saw over the summer of 2020 where president trump and those around him wanted to use the national guard in various capacities and cities such as chicago and portland and seattle.

>> with us now, contributing writer at the atlantic, pete weiner. he's a senior fellow at the trinity forum. and his latest piece is titled, "this election is different." pete, it certainly is. you know, i was just thinking about our relationship through the years. it's been wonderful, but you know, we had some tense moments during the bush administration, when you worked inside the bush administration. and you know, we seem to be talking to each other a lot. me saying, why is he doing this, why is he doing that? and very, very critical of george w. bush throughout that administration. or we went back and forth. but when election time came, i voted for george w. bush. in fact, i voted for republicans my entire life. and it's one of the things, i'm trying to tell my republican friends right now, if you've ever not voted for a republican for president in your life, this is the election to do it. this is different.

just like i thought 2020 was different. just like i thought 2016 was different. so talk about why this election is different, even for -- i don't know if you're a former republican. i'm a former republican. but this election is different for republicans and former republicans, who are still conservative, like you and me. >> yeah. thanks, joe. i think it's different because donald trump is different. i mean, he is a threat to the country in a way that no other figure, no other president or presidential candidate has been. this is not a dispute simply about public policy and public policy matters. you and i have spent our life in it. but there are some things that matter more. and that is the constitution. and the rule of law. and having a person in the presidency who has some degree of moral discernment and who has some measure of character that you can depend on. we've had a range of people in the presidency, some better and some worse, but this is a man

unlike anything we have seen. you know, you've quoted general milley who has said, he's a fascist to the core, which i think is true. but it's not just that he's a fascist to the core, he's an undisguised fascist to his core. he advertises that every single day in bright neon lights. and i think republicans who love their country need to defend their country. and defending their country at this point means voting for kamala harris, even if you've been a lifelong republican. >> you know, pete, ann applebaum said in the twilight of democracy, that there's this lie about these right-wing populists that fuel these anti-immigrant, anti-intellectual, anti-democracy movements. and it's like they're these dumb, poor yokels, that just stumble to the voting booth and don't know what they're doing. no, no, they're fueled by elites. they give a permission structure for everybody else to vote for

these anti-democratic populists. i just want to ask you. i can name names and it would make this far more focussed of a conversation, but i don't want to do that. i don't want to embarrass anybody. i just want to ask you how much it has hurt you personally to have people that you looked up to your adult life, people that you worshiped with, people who you read and learned from. people who you held up as examples, who are now cravenly following the crowd out of fear of standing up and doing something courageous like say, liz cheney. >> yeah, it's -- it's been painful. it's been personally painful. there are people, as you said, who i have looked up to, for as long as i've been alive, starting as a kid. i've had role models.

looked to heros to try to pattern my life after and probably overly idealistic in that respect, but i think we need that in life. so when you're in a movement filled with people that you thought were one way and then they act another way, and they act in a way that you think, by your own lights, is morally off track and wrong, you know, that's hard. i've tried really hard, as you have, to enter into their world, joe. and to try to understand why they think the way they do, why they vote the way they do. i'm pretty acquainted with their line of reasoning. but in the end, i just don't think that it holds together. i think an enormous amount of denial is going on. and that denial is bad for them.

but it's worse for the country. >> yeah, it will be bad for them eventually if he's elected. you're right. no election prior to the trump era, regardless of outcome, ever caused me to question the fundamental decency of america. i want to drill down a bit more on that. and let's talk about, since you and i have the same background, the evangelical churches we grew up with, the evangelical people we worshiped with, the people who, as a congressman, i had trouble going to sunday school, i had trouble going to bible studies, i had trouble going to anything without somebody coming up in my face going, how could we have a man like bill clinton as president of the united states? does character not matter? have you not read bill bennett's book of virtues? what is wrong with you? and then they would talk about the character of ronald reagan, the character. they are now voting for a man, i

will not go into the details of where he's fallen short personally, because we have all sinned and fallen short of god's glory, i will just use his words. he has said, he does not need god's forgiveness and for those that don't read the bible. for those who do not understand what's at the center of any evangelical's faith, or any christian's faith, we are all flawed. we are only saved by grace. we are not saved by good work, we are saved by grace. and it's when we go before god and say, we have failed you again, please forgive me. that's the center -- that's the foundation of the faith. and they are voting for a man who said, i don't need god to forgive me. so how do they say, i'm voting for my christian values, i'm going to vote for a man who every day undermines everything

that jesus said and says that he doesn't need god's forgiveness? >> yeah, you know, it's a psychological trick that they're playing. they've justified it by turning this race into an existential crisis that the democrats and progressives are against americans, so trump is the only thing that stands between them and catastrophe. but of course, it's the opposite thing. and i do think what you're getting, the point you're making, joe, is exactly right. it's been a catastrophic damage that's been done to the christian witness, because this is a moral freak show. people look at the hypocrisy that you were talking about. people who went after bill clinton with a figurative x4, every day that he was in office. and now they're defending a man who makes bill clinton look like a boy scout. i think what is underneath him, it's a very complicated

question. i think what we've found out is a kind of cat scan on the evangelical movement, is that there has been pulsating grievances and resentments and anger that trump really tapped into. and what's happened is i think that faith is secondary. it's subordinate to the core identity that a lot of these people have. if you gave them sodium pentathol, i think they would say that faith is the most important thing in their life. but in realty, it's not. they've proof texted the bible and talked to themselves and created a narrative where they think they're being faithful. you can understand people make mistakes. but at the end of the day, there is moral accountability. and as we've been talking about, this is not subtle when it comes to donald trump. this is what his vileness, his depravity is something that he displays every day. and they seem to revel in it. it seems to be vivifying for

them and that is really, really sad and it's sick. >> which is why our friend, tim keller, near the end of his life said, i've stopped calling myself an evangelical. >> right. >> because that's more of a political identity marker and a cultural identity marker than it is a marker of one's faith. >> right. >> and how sad is that, pete? how sad is that? >> yeah, no, that -- you know, tim was such a significant figure and he was a person that in his heart and in his core, he loved jesus and he was a follower of jesus. and he knew what was happening. and he was willing to call it out in a careful and responsibility way. and we miss his voice and we need more people like him. unfortunately, there are not many who were like him? >> no, no they're not. contributing writer, pete weiner, thank you so much for being with us. always appreciate it. >> thanks, joe. >> all right, and pete's new

piece is available online now at theatlantic.com. coming up, democrats are looking to regain control of the house this november and ali vitali spoke with hakeem jeffries about their efforts and his message to the voters. this is going to be clutch as well. the race for the house is going to be close, at least it seems that way, about three weeks out. same with the race for obviously the presidency. we're not so sure about the senate. that's kind of going in all different directions, depending on what polls you're looking at. republicans probably have a slight advantage in their efforts to regain the majority. but everything still up to you, the voters. and when we come back, we're going to have ali vitali with her exclusive interview with hakeem jeffries ahead on "morning joe." hakeem jeffries ahead on "morning joe." i asked my doctor about treating my td,

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a career-high in rbis this year, 144 ribbies at the majors. sends one high and deep to center field. did he get it? back on it is thomas. he's at the wall. he got it! it's a two-run home run! >> there it is, big fella. new york yankees captain aaron judge getting his first home run of the post-season, a two-run bomb to deep center field, sealing the win over the cleveland guardians in the acl

west. judge who led the league with 58 regular season home runs and 144 rbis entered the game with just one rbi in the playoffs, had a couple last night. he added three with that home run. a sac fly as well during a two-run second inning after the guardians intentionally walked juan soto to load the bases to get to aaron judge. meanwhile, cleveland rookie shortstop committed some run scoring errors. brokeio dropping judge's first inning pop-up right in front of second base, allowing glaifr torres to score from third. and after cleveland had cut the lead, brennan bobbled the ball in his try for a bare-handed pickup that allowing a score for the yankees. now they have a two-game lead in the best of seven series. back to cleveland for game three tomorrow night. and tonight the new york mets across town host the los angeles dodgers in game three of the

nlcs and that series tied at one game a piece. you have to be happy for the mets and they will have a huge night tonight at citi field. yankees up 2-0. didn't get a good outing from gerrit cole last night, and found a way to win in the driver's seat here. >> first of all, it was a cold night, early october cold. he had to crush that ball to get it out of the field last night, because with the cold air that doesn't travel, and then the announcing booth did a great job announcing the game. and the third element is the yankees, i think, will not even come back to the yankee stadium with the indians -- or guardians, rather.

the pop fly, remember, use two hands. nobody uses two hands anymore. >> and they side catch it. how about the mets? you love their chances? >> i love the mets. i love the mets. reality is reality. i would love to see them do it. it will be wild tonight at citi. >> a party tonight in queens. let's get back to politics now, and lets bring in ali vitali, and she sat down with hakeem jeffries and his efforts to win back the house. what did you hear from jeffries? >> jeffries, a new yorker, so i

am sure he will be happy. for jeffries it's part of his quest to get back in the majority and to hear him tell it, house democrats have been governing coming together with foreign aid and now they want the gavel. >> if you could put odds on taking back the majority and becoming speaker, what would you put on it? >> i am not necessarily a betting man, but we are working as hard as we can. >> slim house margins mean flipping a mere four seats would give democrats the majority and jeffries the historic speakership. the road to controlling the house goes through seats like

this one. >> as a guy from brooklyn in albuquerque, new mexico. >> it's important for us to keep our foot on the gas pedal. >> it's more than one of two dozen flipable seats to decide if it's jeffries or a republican come november. bouncing between arizona to oregon and new mexico to pennsylvania, and an all important california and new york. january 6th showed how important who sits in the speaker chair can be. >> we are prepared to affirm the will of the american people. >> do you believe mike johnson is, too? >> it remains to be seen if the republicans turns over if kamala

harris wins. >> mccarthy set the tone for the chaotic -- >> i have come to the conclusion that calm is an intentional decision. we will find bipartisan common ground with our republican colleagues on any issue. >> trump is not so traditional, huh? >> traditional republican colleagues whenever possible in order to make life better for the american people, but we will push back against extremism whenever necessary. >> this is what we are dealing with. >> taking back the gavel setting up a to-do list. >> we will move on the house floor and it's fair to say that a top priority is to make sure

that we pass, as we have done before, the women's health protection act in order to restore the protections of roe v. wade. >> now voters will decide if house democrats get that chance. and joe was right to end the last segment with it's about voting and when you look at jeffries campaigning at different districts, yes, they have their local issues but the common thread for him is pushing against project 2025 and the campaign arm jeffries runs is with an ad buy in places like california, oregon, iowa, and all of those states pretty

decided at the presidential level, and we just named four states and in california there's even a few more races there the californians are hoping to flip. that there, a focus on get out the vote in those states could be enough to give jeffries the gavel and the first black speaker and putting the democrats atop the house, guys. >> yeah, and nbc's ali vitali, great reporting there. thank you so much. still ahead, we will have more from kamala harris and enter interview with charlamagne tha god. we will get into the battleground state of georgia after early voting started yesterday. and we will look at the key exchanges between ted cruz and

alred. "morning joe" is coming right back. every member of the military is tested for mental fitness except the commander in chief, who has the most responsibility in the world. and when a moment of crisis strikes, is this what we want in a president? unsure. - the origins of the uh... unstable. - hamas terrorist invasion... unpredictable. - anonymous... it's time every president is required to prove their mental fitness. sign the petition for presidential mental fitness. healthcare for action pac is responsible for the content of this advertising. reminder, bent finger appointment. i don't want to wait or have surgery for my dupuytren's contracture. i want a nonsurgical treatment. and if nonsurgical treatment isn't offered? i'll get a second opinion. take charge of your treatment. if you can't lay your hand flat, visit findahandspecialist.com to get started.

israel and jewish people, and i say it, if anybody i know is jewish and they would vote for kamala over me, they should have their head examines. if anyor trump we will have to send you to a psychiatrist to have your head examines. i will tell you what, anybody hispanic where i am doing well, tpg if they vote for kamala, you need to have your head examines because they are screwing you. >> yeah, trump also made similar

comments to catholic americans on truth social writing any votes for comrade kamala harris should have their head examines, and anybody that calls somebody like kamala harris a comrade, despite "the wall street journal" ran a story showing about how one economists after another economists says her economic policies will be better for america, and her economic policies will bring inflation down while trump will be bringing it up and maybe that person should get their head examines. willie, you know, you know how you -- sometimes you look at things and you just kind of let

it go past you. that's a little strange. you look back and you think what did i -- what did i see? and i will tell you, and i saw more come up, what happened with donald trump for 39 minutes when he was standing onstage zoning out? what happened? fortunately for you and me -- well, it's not fortunate but mika is not well, and she keeps three cable channels streaming all day, hah, and she said people at times were just staring at him. kristi noem, they won't be doing a buddy film soon. not a lot of chemistry there.

39 minutes. i have never seen anything like it. we kind of stayed away from it yesterday morning, and alex and i talked about this, and i know you did, too, but we are not sure what happened so we don't want to dive into it and here we are 24 hours later, still no idea what is going on. here we are, three weeks before the election and he zones out and just quits. the teleprompter is saying, sir, you can take more questions, sir. he just ignores it and keeps wandering back and forth. very bizarre, willie. very bizarre. >> beyond bizarre. it was -- first of all, apparently it's all just too sweltering hot in his events, and his team might want to look

at that and it was hot in the room in philadelphia the other night, and people stand for a long time and wait for a long time to get in and some people succumbed to the heat and fainted and thank goodness, those two that fainted were fine, and they stopped and said they are good and let's get on with what we are doing, which was a q & a, and he said let's not do anymore questions, let's just stop and listen to music. you think he will do a song before they get back into it and maybe a buffer between the medical incident, and instead he stood there for 39 minutes through nine songs ranging from pickoff roddy to guns & roses. you wonder why didn't he want to

answer more questions? why was kristi noem to begin with, to ask questions thrown into the scrap heap as he swayed along with the music. he had an interview with bloomberg news yesterday that was truly bizarre, and he said among many things the word tariff is his favorite word in the dictionary, and these are not onoffs anymore and it's getting weirder by the day. >> and slurring so many words, and even in the speech last night, and i think it was insurrectionists, and just slurring words. i know it's a long campaign and we see signs of a 78-year-old man who obviously has been

through a trial and an attempted assassination, and going through the riggers of this campaign and right now he's becoming more erratic by the day. it looked to me, at least, this is my guess, he just shut down. he tried to answer a question or two and sort of made a joke before a gold star family came up onstage after he got shot at, and kristi noem had to say, sir, they lost their child in a war and he realized he was out of his depth and wanted to stop talking about we have seen, you know, on saturday nights when he gets exhausted, the end of weeks when he's been doing things, we see him start confusing joe biden for joe biden, and world war ii for world war iii, and

making one mistake after another. my best guess is he figured this is the safest thing to do and he was not feeling it. look at that. again, just very strange. you know what else is strange, willie, is when you have one of the great short stops in all of baseball who has a ball popped up to him by the mvp, you have a chance to actually get your first out with two men on base and just, like -- just like, you know, a little leaguer, drops the ball. that was a pretty crazy start to the yankees game. your new york yankees, they have done what they need to do. here's the pop-up. >> there it is. hit very, very high. he's a gold glove level shortstop, and the ball drifted

and he drifted with it and that opened the scoring with the yankees, and it was a weird and sloppy game, obviously. gerrit cole was off on his game, and he got away with a lot. then that error, and then aaron judge hit his first home run in the series. the yankees go up 2-0 in the series as they head back to cleveland for game three tomorrow night. as a yankee fan, you feel like you got away from one. you didn't have gerrit cole's best, and it's nice to get aaron judge with a good swing. sloppy game. we will take it. yankees take a 2-0 lead in the series. >> cleveland is back against the wall, jonathan lemire. they will have to win at least two in cleveland and probably three. they will have to sweep the

yankees before they come back to yankee stadium. but right now it's looking -- it's looking like it's -- you know, looking like the guardians -- almost said the indians. looking like the guardians' first world series win getting away by the minute. >> dark days, joe. dark days. we have lived 15 years without being in the world series, and the gardens don't seem up to the moment. i think they have to win all three at home and i don't think they have the pitching to do that. errors, booting balls in the outfield, and dropping balls. if aaron judge starts to get hot and can carry them, they are in

great shape. of course, the baseball action in new york shifts across town today. game three, mets and dodgers and it will be at citi field. >> going to be excited. let's bring host of msnbc's politics nation, reverend sharpton, and former u.s. senator, claire mccaskill, and ed luce. a poll that game out showed this race was tied. of course, "the new york times" also decided to do what they do every sunday and tell you why kamala harris is going to lose 49 states with their "new york times" marist poll, and black men and hispanic men are gone and it's all over. she might as well give it up. that coupled with the nbc poll that showed it to be a dead heat had psychiatrist business up

about 47% on the upper east side and upper west side in new york, and psychiatrists doing extraordinarily well in the campaign with democrats, as they did in 2016. since then, they had one poll after another, and you had kamala plus three, and the trip tracking poll, kamala harris plus three, and they suggested maybe the stories about her momentum being pwhrupbtd just may be over selling the case for donald trump. >> yeah, so that's a "new york times" sienna poll that was for

the upper side therapists. and meanwhile, the marist poll, a national pole shows -- poll shows her up. harris was asked several questions about her plan for black americans as well as her record as a prosecutor. >> it's not just you versus trump but it's you versus misinformation. >> that's true. >> one of the biggest allegations against you is that you targeted and locked up thousands of black men in san francisco for weird, and some say you did it because of your hate for pwrabg men. >> it's not true. what public defenders around

those days will tell you, i was the most progressive prosecutor in california on marijuana cases and would not send people to jail for simple possession of weed and as vice president had been a champion for being marijuana on the schedule, and instead of it being ranked with heroin, we bring it down and as president i would work on decriminalizing it because i know how the laws were used to disproportionately impact specifically black men. one of the biggest challenges i face is misinformation, and it's purposeful because it's meant to convince people that they somehow should not believe that the work that i have done has occurred and has meaning. my work from the beginning of my career through today as been about, for example, we talked about it, whether it be on hbcs,

black health care or single mortality, and bringing it to the white house to address it and the work i have done focusing on my knowledge and my life experience of knowing the entrepreneurship that we have in the community, and the ambition and dreams and tapping into that so not only has my work been about insuring we have some of the lowest black employment ever in our country, but that also knowing that that should be a baseline knowing everybody has a job, and what we should be invested in is building wealth in the community and interracial wealth. part of the challenges i face is they are trying to scare people

away because they know they otherwise have nothing to run on. ask donald trump what his plan is for black america. ask him. i will tell you what it is. look at project 2025. project 2025 tells you the plan includes making police departments have stop and frisk policies. the plan includes making it more difficult for workers to receive overtime pay. the plan includes ending the ability of medicare to negotiate drug prices. what we have done, he said he would and we did and that brought down the cost of prescription medication. his plan includes making it more difficult for working people to get by and to destroy our democracy. you know what he says he will do? terminate the constitution of the united states. >> that's right. >> i grew up in the black church. i grew up attending 23rd avenue

church of god in oakland, california. >> that's church. >> yes, that is church. my pastor is amos c. brown. i have throughout my career, as vice president and recently have been actively been engaged in the church and church leaders, not only so we can share in fellowship but so we can share in what we can do together about the strength and cohesion of the community, and it's my long-standing commitment to always work close with the church. we are talking about people who are driven by faith and the ability to see what is possible by faith where i was raised, our

faith propels us to act in a way that is about kindness and justice and mercy, that is about lifting one another up, and let's talk about the contrast here. donald trump and his followers spend full time trying to suggest that the measure of the strength of a leader is based on who you beat down which is contrary to the church i know. >> he sells bibles, though. >> where my church is about saying true leadership and the measure of that is based on who you lift up. right. and then he's selling $60 bibles or tennis shoes and trying to tell people that makes him have an understanding of the black community. come on. >> claire, brother pat buchanan and brother barnicle in the

past -- we are talking about political athletes. you are either a political athlete or not a political athlete, and watching that clip suggests that actually you can grow into being a political athlete and that's something i have seen kamala harris do over the last couple of months, but you see her there and how effective she is, and any trump person watching this show, take what she just said, take that interview and find any interview donald trump has done over the last nine years and stack them up. claire, you will find one candidate speaks in complete sentences. one candidate speaks in complete thoughts. one candidate can engage in detailed policy discussions. one candidate is capable mentally and intellectually, emotionally, of being president of the united states.

and one is just simply not. it's out there for anybody to see. this has nothing to do with ideology. this doesn't even have to do with democracy. even if donald trump were not a threat to democracy, as so many americans, including myself, believe he is. i believe he's a threat to american capitalism. even if he weren't, donald trump compared to kamala harris right now is a distant, distant second and beyond that spiritually. listen to what he says about blood and a day of violence and hatred, calling people crazy if they don't vote for him and lift him up and give him power. what is kamala harris talking

about? kindness. justice and mercy. it almost sounds as if she has read a bible, unlike donald trump who makes bibles in china and then sells them to americans at like a 500% profit. your take not only on kamala yesterday, the vice president, but also what we have been seeing out of donald trump the last two days? >> yeah, i just wish that we could do a side-by-side of his interview with bloomberg and her interview with charlamagne. it's a stark contrast. she has gained in her stature and poise and ability to -- and

with discipline, articulate. he is going the other way. she's rising to the moment and he is falling. i am so glad you said that, joe, about setting aside all the policy stuff that is dangerous that he embraces and just look at his cognitive ability. he's hiding his medical records. he's hiding them. he said in july, oh, sure, he would release his medical records. he said just a week or so ago that he already had. he doesn't realize, i guess, maybe, that he has not released his medical records. he goes on to say that it's dangerous that kamala harris has allergies. this is a weird, weird, weird turn here that he is refusing, as the oldest man who ever ran for president and a man who is

in his 80s sitting in the oval office, and i get it that everybody was worried about joe biden being old. but you know what, joe? biden did a gut check and said i think i should pass the torch. not donald trump. people should be outraged he's hiding his medical records. he will not release him like i predict he will never do another interview to somebody in tech. up next, we will get the latest in one key battleground state when "morning joe" comes back in 90 seconds. (vo) time to move? make it easy with opendoor. sell your home in any season, for any reason. [vampire hiss] (vo) start your move at opendoor.com.

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don't stop your asthma treatments without talking with your doctor. tell your doctor if your asthma worsens. headache and sore throat may occur. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. step back out there with fasenra. ask your doctor if it's right for you. by voting in this election, you have two choices or you don't vote, but you have two choices if you do. it's two very different visions for our nation. one, mine about taking us forward and investing in the american people and their ambitions and dealing with their challenges, and the other, donald trump is about taking us backwards. >> or it's about fascism. why can't we just say it? >> yes, we can say that. >> he sets himself up and is easy in situations when somebody

calls you sir every three words and he can't answer questions. he zones out. you have his people afraid to put him in the fox news debate with kamala harris. you have his people afraid to put him on "60 minutes," first time in 50 years a presidential candidate has been afraid to go on "60 minutes." you have his people afraid to release his medical records. you have his people canceling on joe on cnbc, and every time he does this it ends badly. he goes on maria bartiromo, and one softball pitch after softball pitch, and he starts talking about using the national

guard and military against adam schiff and other democratic opponents. things are blowing up on that side and kamala harris keeps doing better. i am struck by how well she did and how van jones after that said she just turned black? and the only one that would say she just turned black after that interview would be the whitest person in the world because she has been going to black churches and knows. >> yeah, donald trump did finally -- maybe he didn't know it would be this way, an adversarial interview and attacked "the wall street journal" when presented with the

fact and asked hard questions, he couldn't handle it and that's why he did not do "60 minutes." we will not listen to the talk of kamala harris and word salad people talk about. let's put that to rest. and let's talk about charlamagne tha god and the work you talk about. they were talking specifically about black men but black voters in general. with under three weeks to go, what else should she be doing? >> i think she's doing what she should be doing, she's going to the black community as well as others. she's unapologetic and going to gerald ford's district in the same weekend and she's doing other shows and will be doing my show, and she's doing what a

vice president should be doing is addressing all people, and especially with the disinformation in the black community. i have known her since she was a district attorney and she was attacked of not believing marijuana should be to the level. she was not anti-taking care of criminals. she just felt that some crimes didn't rise to the level of what we were seeing penalized at the time in terms of the outcome of some of what it did to those communities. but i think we also -- going back, we can't miss the fact that with all the conversations about where our momentum is, yesterday there was record turnout in georgia for the first day of voting. over 300,000 people. they almost doubled the record

of 2020 which was a record. when you see that kind of turnout and many of them in black districts, you are going to be surprised how wrong these polls are. i am going today for columbus, ohio, for a get out the vote rally, and reverend jesse jackson is going to join us, and people are turning out and i think they are fooling themselves if they think the momentum is the other way. if you want to see somebody that can answer questions and has a track record and opposing somebody that just placed tracks that can't even dance to the tracks, then that's your choice. i mean, donald trump was embarrassing the other night to anybody that supports him. if i was there, i would have walked him off the stage if i was a supporter. how long do you let grandpa stand there and humiliate the

family. >> a lot of people started to stream out as he continued to dance. you bring up the early voting in georgia, and in our next segment we will talk about the black voter numbers and what she needs to do to bring those up to 2020 or 2016 levels. let's take a step back more broadly because you understand this stuff so well, and there's panic among democrats, and the polls, oh, she's losing and people inside her campaign will say this is going to come down to the last day and the last vote and it will be very tight. where will you be looking in the last 20 days or so as pivotal to who wins the election? >> i will be looking at pennsylvania, and i will look at north carolina that could go her way. i will look at georgia. if that happens, it's over. i think the get out the vote

efforts of nonpartisan groups and the harris campaign will tell the story. what i understand there's no real on the ground infrastructure on the trump side, and it's all about what trump does at the top. it will be about who can pull out the votes and deliver their voters to the poll. trump is betting on using legal mechanisms to prolong the results and we have to make sure for the good of the country and not only for the good of the campaign for harris, but the good of the country not to stall democracy. and joe explains harris pulling something out of the obama playbook when we come right back. ♪♪

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♪♪ you know, jonathan lemire, it's interesting that people say national polls don't matter and we don't focus on national polls and we always look at trim lines. again, everybody is obsessing that -- and reverend al was just talking about the polls and maybe they are bad. people that are straight will tell you it's a close race. again, after the nbc poll came out and shared it was a tie, 48-48, i think it was. democrats started getting on the ledge and they didn't pay

attention to all of the polls that have come around that, and they said the momentum stalled. they always say that. the momentum stalls coming out of the convention, and then while it is close in the seven swing states, you look at the national polls. they are all breaking in our direction. nbc tied. as i said, cbs and abc plus three, the tip national tracking toll had harris plus three. that lead this morning goes to plus four in the tip national poll, and the marist poll, harris up by five now. it's a close race and we won't know who wins until the end but then you see the numbers in georgia, and suddenly you feel like telling democrats moaning about what the harris campaign is doing, hey, calm down.

you know what? victory is in sight in less than three weeks. if you go out and work hard and do your job. the opponent is imploding and harris is doing better than ever. >> you talk to both campaigns and people inside both acknowledge this race is very tight. >> it's tied. >> the trump said we are going to win, and the harris side said we are going to keep working hard. the last couple of days here, trump has a bizarre moment where he's dancing and swaying onstage. i will say on this show how we should be more focused on trump's acuity and his fitness for the office, and let's see if others follow suit in having that conversation. and trump goes to safe venues and they don't want him to be exposed anywhere. and harris, meanwhile, making an

all-out push for the black vote as reverend just detailed. and the other theme is targeting republicans, and appearing with adam kinzinger later today, and she goes to the home of gerald ford, a republican president. she's trying to create the permission structure to say, republicans, you, even just this once, you can vote for a democrat. >> jonathan, it's interesting. this is tearing a page out of the obama playbook. you can sense that david plouffe is saying we are going to do in georgia, when they go to savannah, in michigan, when they go to grand rapids, we will do what obama did in iowa, and instead of losing by 80% we will lose by 60%, and instead of losing by 65%, we will lose by

ten or 11 points, and these close races, it makes a difference. the fact that she's going to places like savannah and grand rapids shows this campaign -- they may say behind the scenes, we don't know, this looks tough, but they are doing the obama strategy, they are expanding the map whether it's in georgia or michigan. it's a fascinating strategy and we will see if it works. >> yeah, tim walz was in wisconsin yesterday, and harris also goes to a republican area in wisconsin to that point. the harris team has a plan and it's going to be close. you have written in your piece about even if she wins, and certainly you made clear the dangers this nation and world would face if trump wins, but you are writing now if harris wins the era of bitter polerization likely continues.

tell us about it. >> i look at four scenarios, and one of which, the best of which is harris winning and also the democrats retaining the senate and regaining the house and that would allow normal governance to resume in the united states. i don't think that's the most likely scenario. i think probably a combination of harris winning but losing the senate or trump winning but the democrats regaining the house likely a scenario, and of course, the dread one, the one where we would be in completely unchartedered waters is if trump wins and the republicans regain the house and retain the senate. if you have a ruling about a

dismissal of a presidential act, and then you have a liberal democracy that will go after his opponents, and he has a green light and mandate to do essentially what he likes. if there's no check from the judicial branch and no check from the legislative branch having been taken over by republicans, we are into a different game here. what i would get back to, that first scenario, kamala harris winning and the democrats retaining the senate and retaking the house, that is the one that we should all be hoping for, conservatives and democrats alike. if you want normal grown-up predictable governance, that's

the only scenario we should be hoping for. it's not just about the presidency. i will say one other thing, jonathan. taking a leaf as joe said out of obama's campaign in '08, and i think the kamala harris team should take a leaf from clinton, where they sent a chicken to bush rallies, and they had a michigan chicken george, and a lehigh county chicken george. they need to follow trump around with chickens saying debate me, debate kamala harris, because he would lose that debate and that's why he's refusing to debate. she needs to shame him. coming up, how early voting caught georgia officials by surprise. we will talk about the record-breaking numbers straight

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smoker for 26 bucks. and shipping is always free. go to dealdash.com right now and see how much you can save. greg, always great to have you with us. that was a staggering number when it was posted yesterday about the secretary of state. can you talk about just in some perspective of what that 300,000 looks like? >> yeah, that's an eye popping number. i think it caught state election officials off guard and shattered all sorts of records and i would caution reading too

much into the numbers. we saw heavy turnout in democrat-leaning areas and also heavy turnout in republican-leaning areas. we don't know who it will help most. we don't know if they were crossover voters or voters that would vote on election day and just voting early. there's a lot going on. we know republicans this cycle are putting a greater emphasis on early voting. >> we don't know which way that early vote is leaning but it's incredible enthusiasm to begin around the voting. and trump praising governor

kemp, somebody he constantly attacks, and it's like somebody said, sir, you need to win georgia, stop messing around. >> what is also surprising, republicans here in georgia, that truce is holding. donald trump's last rally was in august and that's when he went on the surprise 10-minute tirade against the governor and his wife and since there has been a calming of the waters, and it's held. i don't know how long it will hold. i texted some of kemp's allies last night and they are not sure how long it will if they can win back -- if donald trump can win back those split-ticket voters that moved decisively towards joe biden, towards jon ossoff, towards rafael warnock then they can win this race. but if democrats can reach those

crossover votes in significant numbers, then kamala harris has the ticket to her victory. coming up, donald trump suggests children could do the job of american auto workers. we will talk about how that comment is going over in the rust belt when "morning joe" comes right back. in the rust belt when "morning joe" comes right back

here is, charlemagne, one of the things that i think is really ironic, but at play. donald trump through his -- his -- his way of trying to name call and demean and divide, tries to project as though those things are a sign of strength, when n fact, the man is really quite weak. he's weak. it's a sign of weakness that you want to please dictators and

seek their flattery and favor. it's a sign of weakness that you would demean america's military and america's service members. it's a sign of weakness that you don't have the courage to stand up for the constitution of the united states and the principles upon which it stands. this man is weak and he is unfit. >> coming up, one of our next guests says the trump team is preparing to bring election chaos. former acting u.s. solicitor general neal katyal joins us to lay out what we could see in the case of a close election. "morning joe" is coming right back. ing right back customize and save with liberty mutual. customize and sa— (balloon doug pops & deflates) and then i wake up. is limu with you in all your dreams? oh, yeah. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty. ♪

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he played music and kind of did that -- that -- baby toddler, jumping dance that he does for a full 39 minutes. he just stood there, swaying like a manatee tangled in

seaweed. >> let me hear that music, please. >> nice and loud. ♪♪ ♪♪ [ laughter ] >> roll right out of my eyes, lady. why? why? why remain on stage for 39 minutes to just pretend it was done of don jr.'s piano reciteless and leave. go home. it hasn't gotten any less strange and it's funny with the clips even more bizarre if you watch a few minutes or even all 39. welcome to the fourth hour of "morning joe." it is now 6:00 a.m. out on the west coast, 9:00 a.m. here on

the east on this wednesday morning. let's dive right into this hour now. former president trump is doubling down on his comments calling democrats the enemy from within, while vice president harris is condemning that rhetoric as she courts a key voting block on the campaign trail. nbc news chief white house precedent peter alexander has more. >> reporter: this morning early voting has already begun in the key battleground georgia shattering its first day record for early absentee voting with 328,000 votes cast, more than twice as many as four years ago. it comes as former president trump in an interview with fox news set to air this morning doubled down on his inflammatory remarks, referring to democrats as the enemy from within. >> it is the enemy from within and they're very dangerous. they're maxists and communists and fascists and they're sick. they're so sick and they're so evil. >> reporter: the harris campaign has sized on that language, warning voters a second trump

term would be dangerous. >> donald trump is increasingly unstable and unhinged. and he is out for unchecked power. >> reporter: also pointing to a trump appearance yesterday not addressing the question of whether he would commit to a peaceful transfer of power. trump claiming the last one was peaceful, despite hundreds of his supporters storming the capitol on january 6th, where more than 100 officers were assaulted. >> you had a peaceful -- very peaceful -- i left. i left the morning that i was supposed to leave. >> reporter: in an interview with charlamagne tha god tuesday vice president harris amplifying the host's characterization of trump. >> i think it's about fascism, why can't we just say it? >> yes, we can say it. >> reporter: harris' interview part of shoring up black voters, a key part of her coalition that polls suggest may be slipping. trump on the attack. >> any african american or hispanic, and you know how well

i'm doing there, that votes for kamala, you've got to have your head examined because they are really screwing you. >> reporter: harris arguing trump and his allies are trying to distort her record. >> part fortunate challenge that i -- part of the challenge that i face is that they are trying to scare people away because they know they otherwise have nothing to run on. ask donald trump what his plan is for black america. >> reporter: and attempt to go cast one of her perceived weaknesses as a contrast to trump. >> they say you want to stick to your talking points. >> that would be called discipline. joining us now we have a member of the "new york times" editorial board mara gay, msnbc political analyst elise jordan, former aide to the george w. bush white house and state department, and chief content and creative officer for ""the daily beast"" joanna cole, she's

also the co-host of the new "daily beast" podcast. a great group to start us this hour. mara, vice president harris her team has been so focused in recent days looking at and trying to court the black vote and in particular black men, and polling, just saw some over the weekend, suggested of course while she's running far, far ahead of donald trump with those demographics, her lead is smaller than what hillary clinton had, what barack obama had, what joe biden had, and trump has made some inroads there. what do you make of the pitch she's made so far and what more do you think she has to do? >> well, it's good to see her aggressively going after this part of her base. she has to. the reality is i think we've been talking a lot about this dropoff among hispanic and especially black voters. it doesn't mean that it's not real, but it's not as though the bottom is falling out. she is going to overwhelmingly

gain support of these voters come election day. the issue is that in a close election, you really can't afford to have any dropoff at all, especially among your closest -- your most important -- the most important part of your base. and so i think, you know, ultimately when you think about the experience that black americans have had in this country, it only makes sense that there would be americans who are african american who feel disaffected, who feel like the political system has not served them and that donald trump, who is making appeals as an outsider to those voters, you know, would gain some support. given also the message that he's giving to voters around misogyny, the appeals he's making to men in particular, black men are men, they, too, are susceptible to those appeals, some of them. i also think there is an element

here of disinformation and misinformation that we've all been experiencing and kind of soaking up for years. black americans are human, just like everybody else. there's going to be some of that dropoff. at the end of the day, though, you know, i think that we don't want to overfixate on this kind of trend because it's actually black voters who are still going to continue to make up the backbone of her base. so, you know, harris is doing what she can to stop the bleeding at the margins. that is essential and i think that meeting people where they are, especially on a show like charlamagne tha god that's smart. not everybody is reading so-called legacy media. not everybody is even on facebook at this point. not everybody is watching this show, right, in that base, but i think that you go meet people where they are, you address their concerns and you show that respect by treating them as

adults. and that's what she's doing. i think it will work. unfortunately we don't have that much time before election day so the real concern is how much can she do in the next two weeks? i mean, people are voting in georgia right now. so that's kind of -- you know, she really -- i think -- should have been doing this earlier, but it's good that she's doing it now, she's got to keep it up and she's got to say, hey, i care about your concerns. she's doing what she needs to do, it's just she needs to do more. keep going. >> and even as trump is trying to court those voters, he won't even pronounce the vice president's name correctly, which is both insulting and racist. >> right. >> elise, let's talk about some of trump's other language, though, about how he deems the democrats, his political opponents as the enemy within. those who used to work with him

warning us we need to take him seriously. this is an unprecedented threat by a western who has a one in two chance to be president of the united states to use federal law enforcement, to use the military to crack down on his political opponents, to crack down on dissent. it's unamerican. do you feel like this is something that's going to break through in these final weeks of the campaign? >> i certainly don't see a language like that helps get donald trump to, you know, 48, 49% nationally and help him win an election. i think that it helps him with his base, but what is it doing other than reminding those voters who are undecided of the chaos that donald trump brings, that they don't like his personality when he is acting unhinged and is using language like this. it's ironic that at the same time, you know, donald trump is demeaning intelligence agencies, he's relying on them as there have been threats on his life.

he -- and especially with the threat from the iranians. so i just think that this is more language from donald trump that he doesn't need to be using right now if he wants to win over those undecided voters who are -- they say they're sick of chaos and that keeps them from voting for him. >> so, joanna, let's get you to weigh in on this as well. this is an odd closing argument to say the least for former president trump, and not just the bizarre swaying on stage the other night, but you're welcome to chime in on that, too. but this is orban stuff. this is undemocratic did you ever. and yet so few in his party are willing to speak out against it. >> yeah, i mean, look, i know that donald trump says he doesn't drink, but this feels like drunken behavior. i think he's probably micro dosing like his friend elon musk. it's astonishing behavior and it's irrational and if we're exhausted about this campaign,

imagine how donald trump is feeling. he seems like he's just lost the plot. yesterday he was saying democrats are communists, then they're fascists, he's all over the shop. i think he's crawling to the end just like the rest of us and i agree with elise that this isn't the way to bring on undecided voters by suggesting we're all hertling towards, you know, a -- type state. that's not where people want to live. there is a reason that people from abroad -- i count myself one of them, but there is a reason why immigrants want to come to america. they're not getting in boats, driving to fascist -- or sailing to fascist companies, they're trying to come to america because of what it represents, which is democracy. >> yeah, and certainly though no evidence the former president is micro dosing or using any sort of drugs, that the events of this week, the dancing the other night, his speech in front of the economic club yesterday which we will talk more about

later in this hour certainly raising questions about his fitness for office again. the questions that president biden had to face now renewed on donald trump. meanwhile, there is a new guest essay out this morning in the "new york times" highlighting the real possibility of election chaos next month and spells out what that might look like. let's bring in the author of that opinion piece former acting u.s. solicitor general and msnbc legal analyst, neal katyal. neal, good to see you this morning. so election three weeks away, but we know there are already some efforts under way to sow doubt as to its results, those efforts only to accelerate. please tell us more about what you -- the chaos you fear may come. >> yeah, i think we are looking at a very possible constitutional crisis and one that's going to make january 6, 2021, look like a dress rehearsal and this year the rogues have had four years to go pro and perfect the big lie.

and so i wrote this piece, i think it's the most important piece i have ever written because i'm really wanting to warn the american people about what very well way happen on november 5 and then the days to come, and we shouldn't be surprised when donald trump sends out his lawyers to challenge everything. i mean, that's what they did in 2020, the vice presidential candidate j.d. vance couldn't even admit that trump lost in 2020. and, remember, in 2020 biden won 306 electoral votes to trump's 232. so all of his 60 different challenges he filed, you know, he had to run the table and win a bunch of them. this election might be closer. so i'm very, very worried about these possibilities. >> neal, i agree that this is an important piece and we have to think about the aftermath of the election just as much as the actual election. what happens if there is chaos at the actual polling centers in major cities, in places like

philadelphia or milwaukee or maricopa county on election day and those results are then -- aspersions are cast on what those results are if there's chaos at the site? >> yeah, and those aspersions can be cast by the trump team, he could try to go to court as he did in 2020 and try to say throw out the votes, discount them. they could go to state election boards as they've just tried to empower georgia to do, local boards to try to throw out election results. they could go to state governors and say, hey, this count is wrong, you've got to send a different fake slate of electors or something like that. and most importantly, they could go to the united states congress on january 6, 2025, this time, and say to the congress, you need to throw out these state electoral slates because they're procured by fraud or the like, and it's just a simple majority of the house and senate that can try to stop -- that can enact

that and strike a state from the electoral college. congress in 2022 in something called the electoral count reform act tried to modify this event and they did a good job, but there is a cottage industry of republican strategists who are trying to end that act and eliminate its protections. >> neal, georgia is, to my knowledge, the only swing state that has a republican governor and i just wonder if you could talk us through a little bit where your concerns are around kind of this -- this path to not accepting the election results that would involve fake electors. is it a state legislature that would be responsible for essentially throwing out democratic results? because, for example, in georgia the governor of georgia, you know, kemp, has said he plans to

stand up for democracy. so what exactly does that pathway look like? is it state legislatures where your area of most concern is? >> no, it's elsewhere, but state legislatures are certainly a part. and remember donald trump in 2020 tried to use state legislatures to appoint fake slates of electors. we have had two good things happen in the years since 2020, one is the supreme court case called moore versus harper which rejected a lot of this whole state legislature nonsense, and the other is that 22 act of congress, which gave governors the power, not state legislatures, the power to send a slate of electors to washington, d.c. the problem is that some people think that act is unconstitutional, trump will certainly make those kinds of arguments and, you know, there is a general feeling that it's not just state government -- state governors or legislatures, it's also state courts, and some of them are elected, they run on

partisan platforms, and ordinarily we've been able to rely on two things to prevent these nightmare scenarios, one is the good faith of political candidates and political parties, be it a republican or democrat. nobody kind of believed this election hoax nonsense, you had people like al gore who when the supreme court ruled against him said, fine, i will accept it. fine. it's over. trump is not that way. and the second thing that's happened is that you have -- you have really now a playbook that has been perfected by -- over the last four years -- by the republicans to use any means available, states, state court, state legislatures, state governors or the u.s. congress. so basically the democracy folks have to run the table and hold each of these different institutions after november 5th. the best way to do that, of course, is to have something like a blowout in the electoral college the way biden did in 2020 so that trump would have to effectively run the table in

battleground state over battleground state with his legal challenges. >> yeah, two battleground states have republican governors, georgia and nevada. neal, i want to get you as the last question to weigh in on a scenario that brendan buck put out for us a couple of hours ago. that harris wins, republicans hang on narrowly to the house, that's a plausible scenario, and then the house is then seated on january 3rd, mike johnson is going to try to become speaker again. brendan floated the fear that johnson is going to be held hostage, if you will, by some republicans who are going to say to him i'm not going to give you a vote for speaker if you say ulcer phi kamala harris' victory and of course the january 6 certification deadline just a few days later. if that were to occur, what happens next? >> yeah, it depends exactly on how the objection is laid out on january 6. there's some objections that congress has suggested don't eliminate the denominator in the electoral college and there are others that do. this gets really, really

complicated, my op he had today tries to tease some of this out, but the bottom line is you could have a circumstance in which there is a die in the electoral college because johnson is throwing out certain votes and then that would throw the whole thing to the house of representatives under the 12th amendment under totally arcane voting rules where it's not a majority of the house, it's a majority of the states in the house, and things could get really, really unwieldy really fast. as i say, it's been american principle, american honor, the integrity of the parties that has prevented any of these scenarios in our lifetimes, but that appears to have broken down in the republican party which is now really entrenched in the big lie, not just in 2020, but looks like they're gearing up for one in 2024. >> yeah, the big lie remains dogma for so many republicans. the important new piece bears the head line "the trump team is prepared to bring election chaos, here is what voters need to know" it's online now, "the

new york times" former acting solicitor general neal katyal, thank you so much for being on this morning. joanna, i want to highlight new reporting that you guys have in the "daily beast," one of your colleagues wrote about chris lass vita who has become something of a household name this year, one of the campaign chair people for donald trump but the reporting fiechbds he's not only getting credit, if you will, for rehabbing trump's image and putting him in a tight race for the presidency but he's also making some real money off of it. >> yes, it's a fascinating piece by michael going into what chris lacivita has been paid which is already $22 million and he stands to make probably another 7. what's interesting in particular about this is that he is incentivized -- part of his pay structure is he's incentivized to get a percentage of how much

much he spends in the ad campaign, digital ad campaign, direct mail campaign or television campaign. he gets upwards of 4% on all his spend. now, not unreasonably he assumed, like many campaign managers before him, that he might well have been fired by now. so there is discussion in the trump campaign about whether or not he decided to spend money early so that he could actually gain from that. what's fascinating is we know the campaign is running out of money. they are hosting an emergency fundraising tonight at mar-a-lago, the top ticket for a candlelight round table is $924,000, but you can also get a ticket for $5,000. so it's just a fascinating glimpse into what's going on in the trump campaign behind the scenes and what's also

fascinating is that chris has a woman co-manager of the campaign, susie wiles, who is also probably as well-known as he is and she appeared to be only getting $680,000. so there is a massive disparity between the two of them. >> joanna, i found this interesting in the sense of it's basically inner campaign warfare, but happening through reporters, because corey lewandowski came in to do the audit and that was controversial within the trump campaign and then this reporting is going forward. i heard from a source on the trump campaign that they still have $250 million on hand and they are still doing around $2.5 million every day, so is this more of an effort tore corey lewandowski to try to oust chris lacivita within the campaign? >> well, we know that corey was brought it to bring some kind of budget discipline to the campaign. we also know that kamala harris doesn't need to do any more

fundraisers, she's raised over a billion dollars. the trump campaign has raised $300 million or at least by the end of august, and we know that they're having this very hurried fundraiser tonight. so we know that they feel concerned they don't have enough money, and like all campaigns, there's definitely inner warfare, but it is fascinating that though campaign managers often get handsomely paid or are incentivized to win for their candidate and are expected to get bonuses when they do this, this is an eye-watering sum of money even for a big national campaign. >> chief content and creative officer for "the daily beast" joanna coles. thank you so much. "the daily beast" podcast available each week on thursdays. coming up here on "morning joe," new fec filings show that the world's richest person gave nearly $75 million to a

pro-trump pac over the last three months. we will get into elon musk's latest donations. plus, shares of trump media fell drastically yesterday. we will explore why with wnbc's andrew ross sorkin. we will be right back. wnbc's andrew ross sorkin we will be right back. right now across the u.s., people are trying to ban books from public schools and public libraries. yes, libraries. we all have a first amendment right to read and learn different viewpoints. that's why every book belongs on the shelf. yet book banning in the u.s. is worse than i've ever seen. it's people in power who want to control everything. well, i say no to censorship.

and i say yes to freedom of speech and expression. if you do too, please join us in supporting the american civil liberties union today. for over 100 years, the aclu has fought for your rights and mine. including the right to read all manner of books. so please call or go online to myaclu.org. for just $19 a month, only $0.63 a day. you can become a guardian of liberty and help protect all the rights promised to us by the u.s. constitution. make no mistake, this move to ban books is a coordinated attack on students right to learn. this is a clear violation of free speech. that's why the aclu is working to fight against censorship in all its forms. it is so important now more than ever. so please call or go to myaclu.org and become an aclu guardian of liberty,

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isn't the problem with the way that you do these kind of deals you're bound to deal with the big companies, it's the small companies who get hit by all of these different things and can't find exceptions. >> we have exceptions. no. no. we had an exception rule. i gave apple an exception. tim cook -- >> apple is not a small company. >> no. no. >> my question is about small businesses, what would you do for them. >> no, but we have a very talented group of people. bob lighthizer did a very good job. we had central casting. and a large group of people we made exceptions. in the case of apple they needed

an exception, do you know why, because of samsung. he came to me, said samsung makes a product similar to ours, very good product, the phones and other things, and because they are in south korea they don't have the tariffs, we are in china we have the tariffs. i said you happen top right -- >> but small businesses come and see you. that was the question. >> mercedes benz will start building in the united states. they have a little bit, but do you know what they really are, assembly, like in south carolina, but they build everything in germany and then they assemble it here. they get away with murder because they say, oh, yes, we're building cars. they don't build cars. they take them out of a box and assemble them. we could have our child do it. that was former president trump yesterday being pressed on his economic policies by editor and chief of bloomberg news and he suggested that children could do the job of auto plant workers. let's bring in now co-anchor of cnbc's "squawk box" and "new

york times" columnist andrew ross sorkin. andrew, there is so much to sift through from trump's appearance in front of the economic club of chicago yesterday. he still has no answer, none, about what he would do for small businesses, which as joe scarborough reminds us is the sort of bedrock of republican talking points. you know, his arguments on tariffs are controversial and inaccurate to say the least. you take your pick, just what stuck out to you yesterday? >> look, i just focused on the tariff issue over and over again because he didn't really address how he's going to make the math work. i think you look and what most economists say this could ultimately cost something like $15 trillion. now, he says it's going to be used as a negotiating employee, that he's going to use with other countries but what's not expressed in that conversation is the idea of what other countries are going to do and how that's going to relate to our ability to export. one of the things that just

happened in the last 24 hours as an example is a chinese state group has now decided that they want to investigate whether intel should be allowed to sell certain chips in china. now, we've made certain types of moves this way, but now there is a retribution in china. so what's that going to do to intel and its ability to output? he's talking about mercedes. you don't think that in germany they're going to say, well, we're going to have to raise the tariffs on u.s. car imports into those countries. so it's not simply that it's going to cost the american consumer more to buy a mercedes in the united states, it's what's going to happen to american automobile manufacturers and their ability to sell in other places, and i feel like that has not been enough part of the conversation. i've talked about it before. american farmers, one group that i think as a country people seem to love, are very anxious about what it's going to do to exports

and american farmers'' ability to export outsides of the united states. >> the "washington post" has a deep dive on trump's tariff plan out today. people should look at that. andrew, i have to ask we noted that the stocks in trump's social media company really plummeted yesterday. is there any connection to what he had to say yesterday in chicago? >> you know, i have sort of -- i'm looking at this as a lot of noise, looking at the stock. i can't tell whether this really is, as some people have described, the heartbeat of the trump campaign and we should look at it as some kind of signal of how successful he's going to be in the campaign, whether he's going to win or lose or whether we are talking about something else, whether we are talking about this being some kind of, you know, side -- side way into financing the campaign even. i think it's almost too difficult to tell. the stock obviously has come down remarkably. the company is still worth something like 5 to 6 billion dollars and as you know in the

last quarter it lost money and made less than a million dollars in revenue. less than a million dollars in revenue. we are talking about a $5 billion company. i think it's a little bit much for us to look at the ups and downs of it and say this is an indicator of the campaign. the other piece of it is, you know, the idea that somehow if he is all of a sudden the president that truth social is going to become that much more popular than it is today. i'm not sure i understand that argument, either, because he's campaigning right now and it's not like it's working for them. it's not like there's so many people on that site or that advertisers are somehow spending money there, unless you believe he becomes the president and all of a sudden businesses are going to start deciding they want to curry favor with him in some way by putting their ads on truth social. maybe that's a possibility, but if so i think we should probably have some real questions about that. >> yeah. we certainly would. an argument can be made that truth social's limited reach has only helped trump because not many people see some of these

unhinged tweets. andrew, trump is also focusing attention on selling cryptocurrency. here we are in the stretch run of the campaign, yet he posted a video on x yesterday promoting crypto tokens from the world liberty financial enterprise, which happens to be -- just happens to be the brainchild of his two oldest sons. >> big news, the world liberty financial token sale is now live. crypto is the future. let's embrace this incredible technology and lead the world in digital economy. go to worldlibertyfinancial.com. >> i mean, yet another grift here, andrew. >> it feels like it. i think this is just another -- i don't even know if this is campaign finance. this is something else. i mean, we're going to have to look at all sorts of new laws i imagine about sort of how so much of this works. i will say this, we were talking about the trump media stock and whether that is a signal of anything, but i do think what is

worth watching is bitcoin, actually, which has gone up in value over the past couple of weeks and months now and there is an argument to be made that former president trump is going to be more open towards bitcoin and cryptocurrencies and allowing them into the system without the kind of regulation that i think we've seen thus far and that has sort of led potentially to these higher prices. there is also a view that perhaps vice president harris is going to be more open to bitcoin and crypto. she's sort of signaled a little bit of that, so maybe that's also led to this in terms of what could happen in terms of either -- whether either candidate wins, but there is a sense to some degree that maybe it's a proxy, bitcoin, for the trump candidacy. >> and lastly, andrew, fec filings last night allowing us to get a look at who is donating to whom and elon musk, a really, really big number to a

trump-affiliated pac. >> looks like $25 million a month for three months, so we are talking about $75 million. interestingly if you remember over the summer he was asked about whether he had committed to do this, back then the number, though, that was being floated i think was $45 million a month and he said, no, he denied that that was the case. there was a little bit of confusion around some of the language that both he was using and maybe some of the questions that he was being asked about it, but these are huge, huge numbers. clearly he's been out in force quite publicly and as you know he's now going to be doing speaking engagements in the state of pennsylvania and to get into those speaking engagements you have to have proven that you voted and i believe you have to have voted for trump, but i believe you just to have voted and you have to have signed a petition in favor of the first amendment and interestingly also in favor of the second amendment as a way, again, of trying to raise some funds for trump. >> yeah, and also it would seem at this point that twitter/x is

making a dough nation to the donald trump campaign. that's a conversation for another day. cnbc's andrew ross sorkin. thank you so much. we will talk to you again real soon. coming up here, we will go over the key takeaways from the intense senate debate in texas last night between republican senator ted cruz and democratic challenger colin allred. the polls are tight. "morning joe" will be right back. s are tight. "morning joe" will be right back at humana, we believe your healthcare should evolve with you, and part of that evolution means choosing the right medicare plan for you. humana can help. with original medicare you're covered for hospital stays and doctor office visits, but you'll

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republican senator ted cruz and democratic congressman colin allred faced off in the one and only texas senate debate last night. the event was down right contentious at times, hitting on topics such as abortion rights and transgender athletes. here is their exchange about january 6th and whether the capitol rioters should be

pardoned. >> president trump has said he would consider pardoning the rioters. would you support that? you have 90 seconds. >> gromer, thank you for that question. my view is clear, i think anyone who commits an act of violence should be prosecuted, should go to jail. you assault a police officer you should go to jail for a very long time. by the way, that's true whether i happen to agree with your politics or disagree with your politics. i've spent 12 years fighting to defend the men and women of law enforcement. that's why i've been endorsed by the leaders of organizations over 44,000 law enforcement officers. my view, you know, congressman all red is happy to talk about those who committed acts of violence on january 6 but you don't hear him talking about the antifa and black lives matter riots that burned cities across this country. if you commit an acts of violence you should go to jail and there should be no political favoritism in that regard. >> congressman, you have 90 seconds to respond. >> that was really something. i have to say, you can't be for the mob on january 6 and for the

officers. you can't. and it's not funny. because you are a threat to democracy. i was on the senate -- i was on the house floor when we went through the votes, i remember when you objected to the results in arizona. you all at home might remember where you were on january 6, what you were doing. i know where i was and i know where he was. i remember when they told us to reach under our seats for these gas masks i didn't know we had because they had deployed tear gas in the rotunda. the officers locked all the doors, we barred the doors, the president walks through to deliver the state of the union with furniture we usually use to hold paper. i texted my wife alley who was seven months pregnant with our son cameron, a home with our son cameron. i was prepared to defend the house floor from the mob. at the same time after he had gone around the country lying about the election, after he had been the architect of the attempted overthrow that have election, when that mob came senator cruz was hiding in a supply closet. that's okay. i don't want him to get hurt by the mob, i really don't.

this election is accountability. you cannot just be patriotic when your side wins. if for the first time in 250 years this project of ours, this shared american project, that we did not have a peaceful transfer of power, the folks responsible have to be held accountable. that's why liz cheney has endorsed me, got involved in this campaign and is saying to texans everywhere do not put ted cruz back in a position of authority because he's done it once, he will do it again. >> but answer the question, would you support pardoning those convicted in the capitol riots? >> so, look, i think the biden/harris administration has persecuted some engaged in peaceful speech and if you are being persecuted for peaceful speech absolutely you should be pardoned. if you engaged in violence, absolutely not you should not be pardoned. >> we shouldn't forget ted cruz's role that day elise. the polls in that race show a surprisingly tight one. >> it's ted cruz is only up four and donald trump is up around six points in texas.

this shouldn't be that way, it's because ted cruz is loathed by republicans as well as democrats and last night he showed the persona that people just don't like about ted cruz, laughing and not taking seriously january 6th and colin allred is a strong candidate, a stronger candidate then beto o'rourke was. texas is a tough state for a democrat, but if anyone has a chance, you know, it might be colin allred and that line about the supply closet just really was one of the debate all time best, you know, and in his defense ted cruz had to go into the supply closet because he couldn't get to cancun quickly enough. >> i was just sitting, you know, watching that exchange, makes you want to sweat, you know, you feel like you're in the arena. i just think that when you have a really strong candidate like colin allred it's kind of a test of favorability for someone like

ted cruz who is really not personally very popular and i also think it was just striking to see allred essentially sounding like what we used to think of as republicans. i mean, who sounded like the patriot on that stage? it wasn't ted cruz, it was colin allred. so, you know, you think that -- i have to think that that's going to appeal to many voters who are just sick and tired of the extremism. and i think what ted cruz is counting on is just people who are voting the republican line and in texas there are a lot of them, but there are some who may have seen that and just said, you know, it's just icky, i'm going to stay home. i think also an election when masculinity, toxic or not has been on the ballot i think colin allred's performance was pretty compelling. he's giving an example of

masculinity that's not toxic but actually kind of reassuring. i think all in all it was not a great night for ted cruz. >> we will have more from that gate tomorrow including an important exchange on abortion rights. coming up next on "morning joe." >> i pretty much went from an employee to a boss of a company. i was part of the front facing what people saw, but also, you know, i knew what they liked, i knew what we didn't like. i knew what we wished would change. so now that i'm a co-owner and vice president, players know that everything we do is what is going to be something they like to do. what's lit? what's sexy? what's dope? because that's what players are. that's what wnba players r they're ballers. you know, it's not easy being the first of anything because there's a reason you weren't -- there weren't any before you. >> she's ncaa champion, a two-time wnba champion and now the first former player to be both a co-owner and executive. rene montgomery joins us straight ahead to discuss her

new documentary "a radical act". we will be right back with that. . we will be right back with that. e to go back in time. and shine a light on the family journey that led to you. straight ahead to discuss her new documentary "a radical act". we will be right back with that. . we will be right back with that. history memberships. now's the time to save at ancestry.

i've been the undersized, underdog my whole life. now, people are calling me an activist. when you look back at it, my whole upbringing was leading me to that point. i was trying to do something that was going to change everything. i hadn't really seen this happen where a player goes from straight player to owner/exec. >> she felt like she could be more effective off the court than on the court. >> be a part of an ownership group now with the atlanta dream. >> i felt like this was the land of opportunity, but not just any land of opportunity. in atlanta, it feels like the land of black opportunity. >> that was a look at a new dock men try out today titled "a radical act" that follows her remarkable journey from her

childhood in west virginia, to her trail blazing achievement, becoming the first former wnba player in league history to become a team co-owner and executive, and renee joins us now. so good to see you. let's start with this. you know, your life story, a remarkable one, now on film. what are some of the messages you're hoping to impart with those who watch it? >> yeah, i think a lot of times just in our universe and our world, toxicity is a certain thing that just rises to the top of the news cycle and the top of everything, and people are like, why did you call it a radical act? i think it is radical to think that you can achieve that ultimate goal, or that dream job, or that dream thing. you don't even want to say it out loud because you don't want people to hear you say it, because if you fail, everybody knows you failed at it. it's radical to be positive and believe in yourself. so throughout my whole life, a radical act is just keeping

locked in on the goals. >> renee, first of all, congratulations on the documentary. >> thank you. >> i guess i wonder, you know, as the first player to now be an owner in the league, what are your thoughts on how to build support to pay women better in this league? >> i think -- i'm glad you asked. listen, i think that the main thing people have to realize is the way that you get larger salaries is you get bigger media deals and more people pouring into the league. it's not necessarily about the owners and what they want to pay. it's splitting the equity and different things oh of that nature. so i think the more visible that we are as a wnba league, the more visible our players are, even now, there's no chance that you can miss monday night football, right? you turn on the tv, it's all over everything. even on my prime box, we all shop too much. but they have like thursday night football. you can't miss their games. but i think sometimes you can miss our games. you might be like oh, i didn't know that today is game three of

the wnba finals. it's like that's the part where we need to be visible, main streamed. you turn on a commercial and see your favorite athlete there. we need to be more main streamed because that's where the dollars come in. >> renee, such a remarkable journey that's why i'm so excited for this documentary, from west virginia to part owner. what's been the most surprising part about sitting in that chair and being the decision maker? >> i'm glad you mentioned west virginia, because i have this shout out to my family watching right now. i think the most surprising thing is just it's going to take time. when you get in there, a whole ownership group, larry g., suzanne, we wanted to do so much in a hurry. even in the documentary, he says i wanted to blow it up quick. but you can't, because there's rules and there's rules to how much you can gift a player. there's a lot of different parameters where you have to color inside the lines. so i think that was the more surprising thing. it's kind of like people in the

government now. you might be had at a pothole and yelling at the president. baby, you've got to talk to your local officials. but when you get into a different position, you think i see why things are the way they are. >> support for the liberty here in new york is electric. and i guess i just wonder, it's so exciting to see the league blowing up like this. why now, and what is it about this league that has americans so captivated? god bless the nba, i love men's basketball too, but there's something different. what is it that americans are getting so excited about? >> i love that, because it's like, welcome to the party. i'm excited about it. i played in the wnba 11 years. i talk about how the quality of play has always been a-1. so the product has been a-1, but the visibility hasn't carried over and hasn't been there. you have these college athletes, the class of 204, they did damage.

you have the angel rees of the world, caitlin clark. their fan base followed them to the wnba. they're influencers, they're models. so now that crossover that we're seeing happen, and it's happening in all sports. players have podcasts now. players are their own media platforms. they have millions of followers, and they're now coming over and watching the wnba and watching the players and finding out about more players. so i just think that it was a volcano ready to erupt, and this last class made it explode. >> that's great. and game three of that best of five wnba championship series tonight between the liberty and the lynx. and the new documentary is available now on the roku channel. two-time wnba champion and co-owner and vice president of the atlanta dream, renee montgomery, thank you very much for joining us. >> thank you for having me. this is my part's favorite show. >> thank you for coming, and thanks to them for watching. that does it for us this

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