blocking any possibility to go forward. let's hope whoever comes after him will not be like that. >> i'm thinking, what would be the ideal forward step now that if, indeed, sinwar is no longer the leader of hamas? >> to have a leader who wants to arrive at a resolution, who is willing to negotiate in a rational way, who will bring a proof of life of 101 people or even the proof of death that we have not gotten from october 7th, 2023. colonel, thank you very much for being with us. >> thank you. that wraps up the hour for me. i'm jose diaz-balart. thank you for the privilege of your time. andrea mitchell picks up with more news right now. right now on "andrea

mitchell reports," breaking news. out of the middle east, israeli officials telling nbc news, they believe they have killed sinwar in gaza. they are awaiting final confirmation from dna testing within a few hours. they say no hostages were in the area. sinwar was, of course, the mastermind behind the horrific october 7th terror attacks. according to u.s. officials, has the single biggest obstacle to a cease-fire agreement for many months. president biden has been briefed. we will have a live report in moments. vice president harris facing tough questions in a fox interview, going on the offensive over former president trump's rhetoric. >> this is a democracy. in a democracy, the president of the united states, in the united states of america, should be willing to be able to handle criticism without saying he would lock people up for doing it.

>> mr. trump repeating his false claims about the riot to a town hall. >> nothing done wrong at all. nothing done wrong. action was taken, strong action. there were no guns down there. we didn't have guns. the others had guns but we didn't have guns. that was a day of love from the standpoint of hundreds of thousands. good day, everyone. i'm andrea mitchell in washington. we begin with breaking news. israel's defense forces say they very likely killed sinwar during a gun battle in gaza yesterday. nbc news has been told president biden was briefed by his national security advisor. a senior israeli official telling nbc news israel is awaiting genetic tests. that may take hours to confirm whether they did, in fact, kill sinwar. the israeli cabinet has been told that they believe they got

him and that no hostages were in the immediate area. israel plans to brief the hostage families when the dna confirmed the leader is, indeed, dead. sinwar was the architect of the october 7th attack. he has to believe -- he was believed, rather, to be hiding in tunnels in gaza for the past year. he was named as the leader of hamas after the former political chief was assassinated in tehran. u.s. officials have said he was the final obstacle to the cease-fire agreement that they have been seeking for the past 11 months. joining me now from tel aviv is erin mclaughlin and courtney kube is in washington. what do we know about this specific operation, erin? >> reporter: they have been looking for sinwar for 377 days. now an israeli official tells nbc news they believe he is very

likely dead. we did just get an update in the form of a statement from the israeli military and the israeli police briefing the israeli public on that identification process. let me just read to you what the statement has to say. saying, quote, with reference to the latest publications regarding the identification of the assassination of sinwar, the police, the idf are working for a complete identification. so far, one of the many tests required for a certain identification has been carried out. dental photographs were sent to the police medical laboratory. now dna tests are being carried out. when they are finished it will be possible to confirm his elimination. an update will be sent soon. yahya sinwar spent 23 years in an israeli prison. they will have dental records, dna as well as his fingerprints for the identification process that now according to israeli officials is very much underway.

what we know in terms of what happened, according to an israeli official, last night there was a fierce gun battle in an undisclosed location inside of gaza. this morning, as israeli troops were working through the rubble, they came across a body that resembles yahya sinwar. according to this israeli official, no israeli hostages were in the vicinity. adding, this was not a targeted operation. this was a very serious gun battle. we are hearing from the israeli defense minister on twitter posting, chase the enemy and they will fall upon your sword. we will reach every terrorist and eliminate him. >> erin, you have been talking to the hostage families. they put out a statement. i have been told they will not be briefed officially until the dna is confirmed. let's just be very transparent

with our viewers. we have looked at the video. there's a lot of stuff online. from the visual evidence, we can understand why the cabinet was briefed and why israeli officials were telling me two hours ago, three hours ago, that they believe they had sinwar, but they were waiting for the dna evidence. i had the same experience when i was with israeli officials in new york. they had hit nasrallah. it took until the next morning to have dna confirmation. >> reporter: yeah, that's right. from that statement, it appears that one of the critical confirmation tests has been completed. we are hearing from the family members of hostages as well as family members of former hostages. i was speaking with thomas hand, his 9-year-old daughter was kidnapped on october 7th, taken to gaza, released as part of

that first hostage deal. he is hopeful. let me read to you what he texted. i'm hopeful this personal reign of terror has ended. i know they will have many more to fill his shoes. i hope that this heavy blow to their command structure will help bring an end to this terrible war. perhaps they will feel weakened enough to come to the table and finally make a serious deal to end the war. i was speaking to a woman whose 84-year-old father was kidnapped. he was brought to gaza, thought to still be there. she told me that she is terrified. she's worried that the remaining 101 hostages for their welfare, what this assassination, this death means for them. she's worried about the possibility the militants in gaza will seek revenge. >> courtney, let's talk about any u.s. role, any u.s.

intelligence. we know -- i know from talking to people on the road that the president was briefed by jake sullivan. they were briefed by the israelis in real time. they are also waiting for this final dna, the genetic confirmation to make it official. this is such a game changer. >> absolutely. >> because of sinwar's unique role. >> yes. you are right, andrea. the u.s. did not have, according to a number of officials who we have been speaking to, the u.s. had no direct role in this mission that appears to have killed yahya sinwar. we can't find any evidence the u.s. provided any intelligence that may have led to this mission. as we have been learning, as this morning has unfolded, it doesn't seem this was a targeted operation or mission to go after sinwar. in fact, as erin was laying out from the israeli defense forces it seems this was part of another gun battle that may have just been, frankly, a lucky break. that's what u.s. officials in

the pentagon are telling us today, that their understanding right now is this may have been a lucky break by the israeli defense forces. the u.s. found out about it, as i said, hours after the operation actually took place, as the israelis were trying to figure out whether they killed sinwar here. the u.s. was not a part of that. we have been asking, what happens now? does hamas, hezbollah, iran even respond or retaliate? we are not getting a good answer. what could be the next step? there's no assessment at this point of how this could impact the ongoing fighting in lebanon or in gaza by hamas. that's one of the big concerns. some of the things that have struck me as we have been learning about this this morning is the fact that for months we have been hearing about assessments or assumptions that sinwar may have been hiding in a tunnel and may have been surrounded by hostages. so far, the israelis are saying

that they have no evidence that any hostages were nearby or injured or killed in this operation, which would really undermine that argument that perhaps he was surrounding himself by hostages as a means to keep himself safe. that's one of the questions we have been asking. officially, the pentagon, the biden administration, they are referring questions back to the israelis on this. behind the scenes, i will say there seems to be a lot of hopeful optimism that they may have gotten him. >> courtney, just to give you some -- to give our viewers some background, on all of my trips, all of the trips for the shuttle trips with the secretary of state, talking to bill burns, to all these people, even when there was some hope the political director from hamas, haniyeh, who traveled openly and lived in qatar, was available to them, that he might agree to' cease-fire, it was always sinwar that was the obstacle. sinwar would not communicate by

cellphone for obvious reasons. he didn't want to be tracked. the reason he knew -- you have great background on this -- was he was a prisoner in israeli prisons for so long. he was a student of israeli military and intelligence operations. >> that's right. you know this better than anyone else. throughout how many times now have there been points where u.s. officials have said, look, we are close to a possible cease-fire, we are at the 90% mark, it's close, and in almost every case, people have come back to us, frankly from so much of your own reporting, and said, sinwar has been the obstacle or is one of the obstacles here. that just opens up the big question, could this actually change the nature of what we have seen unfold? is it possible that this could finally -- his death could potentially be the opening to a real is cease-fire? that's a question we have been

asking. we don't have an answer to that. u.s. officials are just telling us, this is unfolding very quickly. they don't want to make any assumptions about what could happen. there's a lot of hopeful optimism here that in fact he may have been killed in this mission. >> courtney kube, your experience is invaluable. thank you so much. joining us now is the ranking member of the house intelligence committee, congressman jim himes of connecticut. it's not an exaggeration to say that this is the man that was the single-handed mastermind in talking to israeli officials who were here with the prime minister, senior officials in new york, they said the latest intelligence was he jumped the gun on what hezbollah and what iran was trying to do in wiping out israel down the road. he had taken it on himself that, in fact, his patros were not

aware in advance. i don't know if that matches what you have been told. >> it does, andrea. obviously, nobody mourns the pass of this moral monster. justice has been delivered. i would note that sinwar has been probably the biggest obstacle to a negotiated solution, a hostage for cease-fire deal. he, in my estimation, was happy to fight to the last palestinian life was lost in gaza. again, this is not a moment -- this is not a man who will be mourned by anyone, i hope. of course, you are right, i believe -- he wasn't so stupid to believe that by killing 1,200 israelis he was going to collapse the israeli state. i do suspect he was hoping and maybe expecting the other irany proxies to join the fight.

as you point out, the strategic implications of this are a little hazier, including the immediate health of the hostages. we are all on pins and needles about the possibility hamas may seek revenge. hopefully, the death of this monster means we take a step towards and ultimate resolution to the conflict. >> is it possible from everything you know that there was resentment by the civilian population in gaza, given all the horrors that they have experienced, the siege, the continuation of terrible lack of food and water and other supplies, that there was resentment of him for being safe and living in tunnels for this whole time? >> we shouldn't forget that palestinians are people and they are no different than most people. no palestinian family, with the exception of the adherence of hamas, which is not everybody in gaza, wants to be bombed, wants to see hospitals and schools

shut, wants to see their children put in harm's way. hamas is a brutal terrorist organization. the number of gazans likely to be public about their opinions is probably very small. of course, hamas is doing everything they can to squelch dissent as well as highlight in their minds to be a true palestinian is to be willing to give everything for the struggle. i think you and i both know people enough to know that your civilian population of gaza has to look at what yahya sinwar visited upon them and say, this is not the way forward. >> pending, obviously, the dna, do you think this is real and that he has been killed? >> it certainly looks that way. of course, the israelis are going to not announce it until they are 100% certain. there's always the opportunity to try to pull a fake. it's not hard to find somebody who looks like somebody else.

i have spoken to the leadership of our intelligence community and the israelis privately in conversations with the americans are confident that this is sinwar. again, they are going to be 100% sure before they make that announcement. >> finally, any hopes that this could lead to a cease-fire in gaza and relief for the people, the people who have been suffering through this? >> that's the hope, obviously. i think it's a hope shared by an awful lot of the congress and certainly by much of the administration. the israelis have made remarkable progress at great cost, but have made remarkable progress in debilitating and degrading hezbollah in lebanon. obviously, they have done just an immense amount of damage to hamas. they have embarrassed iran. iran has attacked twice to pretty much no affect. you saw the attack on the houthis yesterday. in a rational world, iran would say, this is not going well.

the israelis would take a step forward and build on the remarkable tactical successes they have shown in the region to try to get that political solution. this war will not solve the problem of iran. a war that involves tehran and the united states becomes regional, very unclear how that would end up ending. this may open the door. again, i will say what i said before. sinwar was a terrible obstacle to a negotiated solution. hopefully, this is a step in the right direction in bringing this conflict to a close and a just close. >> of course, the defense minister gallant has been calling for an end to the hostilities in gaza. not so much the -- of course, not netanyahu. this could reach an agreement where netanyahu would say, enough is enough, and we now can

withdraw or start withdrawing and permit people to try to be -- go back to a real life and have the reconstruction that so many arab neighbors have been offering. jim himes, congressman. >> i hope you are right. this conflict has been good for no one. there are tens of thousands of displaced israelis. there are significant fatalities and casualties amongst the idf. there's been a tremendous amount of damage done to civilians in lebanon and gaza. hopefully, with the elimination of such an obstacle, with the death of sinwar, as we hope is the case, maybe the israeli leadership and the iranian leadership will at least start the negotiations. they will be hard, but at least start the negotiations. >> congressman jim himes, thank you so much. we appreciate it. a quick break, 90 seconds. more on the breaking news from israel with our panel of experts. you are watching "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc.

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executive director of the mccain institute. you have been following hamas for decades. if sinwar is dead, how do you see this unfolding? there are a number of options. one could be retaliaretaliation. give me the more optimistic one. >> the first operational desk i sat on was the hamas desk. this is an extraordinary moment. let's first talk about the fact that hamas, on october 7, killed 46 americans in a mass casualty terrorist attack. the u.s. counterterrorism community, which i was a part of for my career, is not shedding any tears. i think there's a lot of satisfaction that this has occurred. that's a very good thing. justice is served for americans and their families. in terms of israel, an extraordinary moment. you know, you have been to israel, you understand the trauma of october 7th for the israeli people. perhaps there's some closure

here. again, october 7, 1,200 killed, mass murder and rape. this is important for the israeli psyche. in terms of where we go, we will think about hamas leadership succession. but i think this does open up an opportunity to restart these talks in terms of a cease-fire for hostage deal. i think there's going to be concern for the hostages. perhaps this is an opportunity for the biden administration to re-engage with whatever members of hamas are still around. this is an opportunity. i think there will be pressure in israel. hostages are going to become number one on the thoughts and minds of the israeli public. >> absolutely. the complaint has been that they are not number one by not just hostage families but many supporters. that's a divided society, as ours has been. there are a lot of implications for our own administration and the campaign, potentially. what about the biden administration taking this

opportunity to try to push for a cease-fire deal? >> yeah. andrea, first of all, we really do need to fully appreciate the fact that this man was a bloody person, a monster, somebody who contemplated, who put together a plan and then executed a plan that involved brutal murders, rapes, torture, a complete lack of understanding of humanity, of the israelis, of course, and then, frankly, also his own palestinian -- fellow palestinians. he used them as shields up until the last moment of his life. this is a despicable human being. he would have been a hard person for the biden administration, for the israeli government, for the gulf states that are allied with us trying to bring at least a cease-fire, if not a resolution of this conflict, bring it to an end, he would have been a hard negotiating

partner because he was responsible for this bloody action. he was responsible for starting this phase of the war between israel and these terrorists. with him out of the way, i think it does make it easier for negotiations. the biden administration, i'm sure, is sending out signals not just to egypt and, of course, the qataris and saudi arabia, who voiced an interest in helping if there's a path to a palestinian state. we don't want to be overly optimistic because terrorists don't go away. but if you can weaken them for the negotiations to take front and center stage, maybe you can get a cease-fire and get hostages out and get towards a resolution in the long run. >> let's talk also about the fact that sinwar, he was released in a prisoner exchange.

remember the massive prisoner. change for the one israeli soldier? not only was he a prisoner, but this is also in the mindset of the netanyahu government as they discuss future prisoner releases and whether or not people accused of murder should be in that mix. that was another major obstacle. >> that gets back to your earlier point where you were saying that there's a great amount of disagreement and dissent and anger in israel about the fact that there hasn't been another hostage deal. as you rightly point out, the palestinians are willing to make these deals. because they want their fighters back. the israeli government should be putting this as a priority, getting the hostages out, coming up with even some kind of interim agreement. but they have been really, frankly, it appears, more focused on decimaing hamas than

getting them out. we heard from the defense chief in israel that achieving the two objectives simultaneously would be hard. there's a tradeoff. let's take the victory that we have almost completely destroyed hamas, because we have seen israel has destroyed their leadership. shift now to releaing the hostages. >> thank you so much. good to have you today. up next, richard haas joining us to react to the news. he was a negotiator in the middle east. you are watching "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc.

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israeli and u.s. officials believe that the mastermind of the october 7th attack may have been killed by israel in gaza, pending dna confirmation. joining me now is richard haas. your reaction to this leader apparently being killed? >> the idea that he is removed from the scene in and of itself is good news, given what he was behind in terms of october 7. he was in many ways the face of terrorism and evil. looking forward, i think the real question now is, how do we take advantage of this situation? this change in leadership or the removal of the leadership of hamas. there's three possibilities that come to mind. one is whether this can lead to a cease-fire that could get among other things the hostages out. could this lead to something bigger diplomatically, something

that among other things would pave the way for an arab stabilization force and the beginning of the after phase of gaza that has been talked about but not moved on? or a third possibility is the israelis see this as an opportunity to press militarily and say, hamas, without sinwar, let's see how much more damage we can do to hamas. i think there's at least three possibilities, two diplomatic, one military. >> what would the potential death of him mean for the hostage release? along the way in every one of the meetings as we shuttled around, ten trips the sent of state has taken, there would be -- netanyahu would say, not yet or maybe. then they would say, sinwar rejected it. it was either one or the other. sinwar was always the bottom line from tony blinken over and over again and bill burns, was that sinwar is the obstacle.

haniyeh would agree. he was the other leader. he was then killed in tehran as we know. >> we don't know who will take his place and when. it might be a scramble for leadership. it might be hard for people to make decisions, which would be seen as controversial. i don't know the planning of hamas for this contingency, how automatic it will be. we have it going on with hamas and with hezbollah, two of the proxies iran backs against israel are suddenly facing leadership crisis. i think the most interesting thing would be to explore, put forward what would be a reasonable cease-fire proposal. i think a big question is -- whenever opportunities arise, the decision is whether you take them or press what you see is your tactical advantage. that's a big question for the netanyahu government. >> do you think this could be a

bigger opening in terms of if iran does not retaliate now? it's unlikely they would. i was told by senior israeli officials and other diplomatic sources in the region that they believe sinwar went rogue with october 7. mentored and protected by iran, but that was not part of their game plan. >> there's documents that captured the other day showed he was far more radical than iran or hezbollah. they were kind of slow walking him. he was pressing things. i think there's opportunity here. to me, i'm not worried about iranian retaliation. iran has its hands full and then some given the wake of the missile launches against israel. the israelis are still going to retaliate against iran. i think the real question is, how do the israelis define success?

they see removal of the face of the enemy. what's the definition of success tactically and strategically? do you press militarily? you can't eliminate hamas. i would say that towards what end? the real question then, what do you set in motion politically? do you go small or big? do you go for a temporary cease-fire, or do you go for a permanent cease-fire and do you introduce what israel's refused to introduce until now? not talking about a two-state solution, but whether you set in motion a process that would give the egyptians and saudis enough so they could say, okay, it's time to form an arab stabilization force that would go into gaza. i think where things could stand very quickly. >> richard haas, we live in fascinating times. this is the first glimmer of hope on that front. thank you very much.andrea.

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we are watching the breaking story from the middle east, the potential death of yahya sinwar. more on that in a moment. back here in the u.s., it's 19 days before election day. on the campaign trail, kamala harris heading to a key midwest battleground, wisconsin. it's an attempt to try to cash in on her high-stakes interview last night on fox. harris took a calculated risk to say the least, sitting for the 30-minute interview telling -- if there are undecided fox viewers, something they might not hear, that hundreds are endorsing harris because they say trump is a threat to

democracy. it's a combative interview. repeatedly interrupting harris. the vice president calling him out for misleading viewers. >> he talks about an enemy within. an enemy within. talking about the american people, suggesting he would turn the american military on the american people. >> we asked that question to the former president today. this is how he responded. >> i heard about that. they were saying i was threatening. i'm not threatening anybody. they're the ones doing threatening. they do phony investigations. i have been investigated more than capone. he was the greatest gangster. it's true. it's weaponization of government. it's a terrible thing. >> i'm sorry, with all due respect, that clip was not what he has been saying about the enemy within that he has repeated when he is speaking about the american people.

that's not what you showed. >> he was asked -- >> that's not what you showed in all fairness and respect. you and i both know that he has repeated that. you and i both know he has talked about turning the american military on the american people. >> in that interview, fox played the second part of trump's answer, not the first. >> kamala harris said you sounded unhinge and unchecked. >> i thought it was a nice presentation. i wasn't unhinged. they are a party of sound bites. somebody asked me, can they be brought together? i never thought -- i wasn't thinking like they could. they are very different. it is the enemy from within. they are very dangerous. they are marxists and communists

and fascists. >> joining us now, "new york times" chief white house correspondent peter baker, democratic strategist adam gentleson and former republican governor of ohio, john kasich. peter, never before has a presidential nominee suggested using u.s. military forces against americans who don't agree with him. political opponents. this is a new level of rhetoric from donald trump, by a presidential candidate. >> it absolutely is. i think it's in keeping with where he has been escalating throughout this campaign. remember, he has said from the beginning, this campaign was about retribution. that was the word he used, not anybody else, retribution. people who have offended him, angered him, and so on. he has talked at times about enemies like joe biden, kamala harris, hillary clinton, barack

obama. he has threatened to imprison. >> nancy pelosi. >> nancy pelosi. he has talked about mark milley, the former chairman of the joint chiefs deserves execution for disloyalty and whether election workers who he argues would be prosecuted and thrown in jail. this is where he is not saying he is going after people for crimes, he is going after them because he doesn't like them or they don't like him, they are his opponents. they are lunatics as he calls them. he has used language like this in escalating form over the last few months in a way that has maybe are -- i think it's very unlike anything we have seen in any presidential campaign in our lifetime. >> the risk to us as journalists and the general public more broadly and more importantly is that it becomes normalized. adam, kamala harris put the widest distance yet between herself and president biden. she clearly was taking that

opportunity on fox to try to fix something that happened in a previous interview where she said she can't think of anything -- couldn't think of anything she would do differently. that was not polling well for her. let me show you an exchange where she doesn't say what she would do differently from last night. let's watch. >> nothing comes to mind that you would do differently? >> let me be very clear. my presidency will not be a continuation of joe biden's presidency. i represent a new generation of leadership. >> does she have to go farther? >> i think that's the right approach. you saw the president himself, president biden, make remarks the other day sort of blessing this and saying that every president brings a fresh perspective and that she would have her own perspective as president. i think that one of the things that is hampering her at the polls is that despite president biden's what i consider to be an extraordinary performance in terms of passing policies that help the american people, the public is still relatively sour

on his administration and even on the economy, even as a lot of the indicators continue to improve. that's just one of the realities you have to face as a candidate. i think it's in everybody's interest, including the president's for the vice president to make the breaks that she needs to do in a strategic way to show that she will be different. because she will be different. she's not joe biden. she will have a different administration with different people advising her. she will take -- she will build on what president biden accomplished but also make significant breaks with the direction that he took. i think that's the right approach from her. it's what voters want to hear. it's the truth about how she will govern as president. >> governor, last night on that town hall, during that town hall, a voter asked a question giving donald trump a chance to back down from the lies about migrants eating pets in ohio. instead, donald trump doubled down. look at this. >> this was just reported.

i was just saying what was reported. that's been reported. eating other things, too, that they are not supposed to be. this is -- all i do is report. >> as a republican and an elected official, he is ramping this up. the polls show a trend in his direction, at least still a narrow campaign, but she was losing some momentum, so do they think that's working for them? >> you know, what's interesting about it to me, when you take a look at the republican voters and "the new york times" had a piece about this tonight, it's as though there are some who just don't take what he says seriously. they think it's just his rhetoric and everything else. a lot is very alarming to me. look, it's been alarming to a lot of republicans. how many people with kamala harris the other day on the stage. there are people that are

actually saying, no, i'm not going to do this, i'm not participating here, i'm not voting for him. by the way, in regard to kamala harris last night, i thought she did a very good job. she fought back. i think she was strong. frankly, you just wonder why they didn't do this a couple months ago. it seemed as though they went into what we say as football, prevent defense. let's not make any mistake. that worked against her and slowed her momentum. last night, i think she did extremely well. we will see what the numbers are to reflect that. >> i was talking to a lot of democrats last night who were in town. they have been critical of too cautious a campaign. they thought last night was a good reset. it is late in the game. peter, before i let you go, since you covered the middle east and were based there as well, just ask you to reflect on what the potential political impact could be of -- we hadn't

thought in the next couple of weeks there could be a cease-fire. there's so many details to be worked out. that's too much to hope for. at least this event that has apparently taken place with what we think is likely the taking down of the chief terrorist blocking a cease-fire and keeping this war going from the perspective of hamas. >> it's a big moment, obviously. a big moment in the middle east. you explored that with richard haas and others who talked about the policy and what it means there. i think back at home, it's kind of an open question. we don't really know. if it were to allow an end to the war, a moment where the israelis could claim victory and say now we're basically done, we are wrapping up, we will move into a different phase, that would be one thing. hopeful in some ways to kamala harris who is criticized on the left for being too close to biden's policy of being too close to israel. i'm not sure that's what

netanyahu will do. if the war continues, regardless of this victory, it may not make that big a difference in terms of our domestic politics. kamala harris would like to talk about anything other than the middle east. talk about trump and american democrat sishgs the economy. the middle east has not been helping her. it's a no win for her. she gets criticized from the left, but then there's a risk if she does too much that people on the pro-israel side will say she's not being strong enough. >> i have an israeli official in tel aviv messaging me now that the foreign minister has just confirmed that he is dead. looking throughout the rest of my phone. so far, they are expecting a confirmation from the prime minister. that may not come immediately. we are told now -- i am told from an israeli official that the foreign minister has said this. i have in hebrew. i'm looking for the translation

in my phone, peter. if this is, in fact, true, it's just an extraordinary development. this is the mastermind of october 7th. a hamas leader, who according to israeli and u.s. officials, has been the single biggest obstacle to a cease-fire. he is, according to senior israeli officials, the person who jumped the gun on the terror plan against israel from iran, hezbollah and the other proxies and hamas, and october 7th was a surprise to them. it was something they had been working on, but sinwar took it on himself. here is a statement from the foreign minister. this is from the foreign minister of israel just handed to me. a personal statement to dozens of foreign ministers worldwide. quote, terrorist mastermind yahya sinwar, responsible for the massacre and atrocities of

october 7, was eliminated today by idf soldiers. this is a great military and moral achievement for israel and a victory for the free world against the axis of radical islam. the elimination creates an opportunity for the release of hostages and a potential change that would lead to a new reality in gaza without hamas and without iranian control. he added, israel now needs your support and assistance more than ever to advance the crucial goals together. the israeli cabinet is a divided cabinet. politically divided. there are right wing members who are more conservative, some would say radically conservative. one of whom was on a u.s. terror list in the past. they were in disagreement with the defense minister gallant and other members of the cabinet, with members who left the war cabinet like minister gantz. this is from one minister.

the cabinet was briefed earlier today, as we have been reporting, it is likely sinwar. the visual evidence seemed to support that. they were waiting for dna. i have not seen -- i will look in my phone, peter. why don't you -- richard engel is joining us now. peter, let me bring richard engel in. richard, that confirmation -- you reported officials were telling us for several hours that they believed it was sinwar based on visual evidence, based on what the troops there were telling them. they didn't have dna. i'm not sure they do yet. this is the foreign minister saying so. >> reporter: the foreign minister has been just said that. i have a senior u.s. military official saying to me, quote, it's definitely him. this official did not specify how the united states knew that, didn't mention if it was facial recognition or dna.

expressed as clear as could be said that yahya sinwar, the mastermind of the october 7th attacks, is dead. the way he was killed i think is very interesting. for months, u.s. and israeli officials believed that sinwar had been hiding in caves -- excuse me, hiding in tunnels underneath the cities and villages of the gaza strip. that he had at times gone off the grid. the only communications with him were through a handful of aides who had direct contact. he didn't use cellphones, similar to other leaders, like the hezbollah leader. but israel found other ways was with walkie talkies and pagers. in this case, it seems that yahya sinwar was moving around, was in a building above ground, that he was with at least two other fighters. the images that you've seen,

andrea, we're not showing yet, they're very graphic shows someone very much like sinwar dressed in a military-style uniform, a gun near him, shot, may have been other damage in a building that is completely destroyed. his body identifiable, but showing lots of -- many different casualties. so if that is him and this is, in fact, confirmed and the foreign minister says it is, this military official that i'm speaking to says that it is it is an enormous blow to hamas, and he is the leader of the organization. he is someone that has been on the run for months and has been, as you said, seen as an obstacle to reaching a ceasefire agreement that he didn't want to do it. he thought expanding the war now that the war is expanding to lebanon, the war has already expanded to the houthis in yemen would help hamas and would help him personally because it would take the pressure off of gaza because the israeli military had

to fight on so many different fronts both in the front of the north and lebanon and the gazan front to the south. that clearly didn't slow israel down. israeli forces are still fighting in southern lebanon, still carrying out air strikes in beirut and other places, and on the offensive right now all across the gaza strip. so it seems that he was moving, that he was cornered and that they finally closed in and killed him. >> of course, the fear. the initial fear was what would be the response from his fellow terrorists and will they take this out against the hostages? some of them are clearly guarding the hostages. he was not. >> well, according to the israelis, they cornered him in this fire fight. they did not know specifically that sinwar was in the location. it was in an area of gaza city in an area that is completely

destroyed. i actually visited it relatively recently and i went in with the israeli military which is the only way one can get into gaza. it was in the same location, completely devastated, not a single building standing and the only sign of life were stray animals and the israeli soldiers who were with us and the reason they took reporters to this location was to show they had a tremendous amount of fighting there, to show the extent of the damage and specifically to show the location where hamas had held and then executed six hostages not long ago and in this area it was believed, according to u.s. intelligence and israeli intelligence that sinwar had been seen in the past or signs of his presence had been found in the past. so if, in fact, he wasn't killeded in this area in some sort of military uniform flanked

by at least two other gunmen, himself carrying a gun, it would show a leader who was isolated geographically, left with a small group of people, these two and perhaps a few others and on the run, not hiding out in a -- in a tunnel as had been the intelligence assessment of many in the past. >> and we should point out he's a former prisoner. you know this so well, who had been released in a prisoner trade, but as a prisoner he became very well versed in israeli military tactics and intelligence tactics and he'd been interrogated, of course, and also had been able to communicate through messengers because he would never use a cell phone, he knew well enough how he could be tracked and executed for electronic devices. >> he knew the value of

hostages, as well, andrea. he was in jail, as you mentioned for many years in different israeli detention facilities and prisons and was very sick while he was in jail, was treated by israelis who basically saved his life, but the only reason he was freed was with the kidnapping and then the prisoner exchange for an israeli soldier, gilat, and he himself saw the power of hostages and how they could be used over israeli society and use them to pressure the israeli government and what that means for the hostages after this is an open question. will the kidnappers use this as an opportunity to carry out some sort of vengeance on the defenseless hostages or will they now see them as even more valuable, potentially more value bargaining chips? but there is also another way of looking at this, andrea. the gaza strip is so devastated

right now. it could be that the actual leadership of yahya sinwar is not as important as it might be in organizations that are more intact. there's so much damage in gaza. there's so much anger, there's so much frustration there after a year of devastation and perhaps another person steps in. we will see. >> richard, i now have a confirmation from an israeli source, an official, that the fingerprint of the body matches sinwar's fingerprint from the idf file from when he was a prisoner. that is a very trustworthy israeli official texting me that now. richard, thank you very much for your reporting. i know you have to jump. peter baker, that seems to make it as official as it's going to be. we're expecting, in fact, more announcements, but the foreign minister has said so, and now i'm told that the fingerprint

and the idf and isa are announcing regarding the elimination of the leader. so we are getting the official confirmations on my phone as we speak. peter, i want to bring ambassador. let me go to the ambassador quickly. you were former top adviser to, ehud barack and what's the impact of this? what are your hopes for the hostages? >> well, it will take a few days before we can make an intelligent assessment and there are several things that are clear. whether or not sinwar exuded his leadership in an authoritative way is questionable. what is definite now is that the entire hamas chain of command has been disrupted in terms of

being dysfunctional and that makes it difficult to deal with, not easier to deal with. it's not like they're going to surrender in this. the second point, andrea, this could be the reason, the pretext and the justification to end the war because outside of a total conquest and an occupation of the entire gaza strip for a long duration of time, every single military objective has been achieved. what we haven't seen is any mitt cal objectives when president biden came out with his plan in december 2023, and richard engle raised it and perhaps others, too and that is that there could

be vengeance exacted on the hostages, and you never know who will make a decision, an on spot decision to just execute and murder innocent hostages. and the fourth point, if i may, goes to something very important that you mentioned, andrea, just before you got the confirmation of his death. you said something that he was in the israeli prison and that he was first in israel and you are absolutely right, but look at an interesting thing here. there are two leaders, hassan nasrallah of hezbollah dead. and yahya sinwar of hamas dead, both of which were considered by israel as regional experts on israel and look how badly they miscalculated and misconstrued and misinterpreted what israel will do after such an attack. so there you have it. >> peter, do you want to wrap

this up for us in terms of your expectations now from the u.s. side? >> yeah. i think the ambassador made very important points and to the israelis, this is the equivalent of getting osama bin laden. this man was responsible for the most horrific moment in the modern history of israel and there's obvious satisfaction in bringing him to justice after just one year after the ten years it took us to catch and kill bin laden. it didn't necessarily mean the end of the struggle, that the killer of the leader as satisfying as it is raises all sorts of questions which the ambassador just referenced. it will mean the end of the war? how did they find a way to move forward? can there be a post-war plan here, all of which is still up in the air. obviously for israel and a lot of palestinians who have suffered in the hands of hamas, this has been obviously an important day. ? thank you so much ambassador pinkus,