here's just what it looks like in that new jeremy strong trump movie which is making all kinds of waves, a preelection film looking at trump and what's wrong with him. what you see right here is the scene where the fictional trump is talking to the fictional writer and journalist, but the real one, art of the deal coauthor tony schwartz, is our guest tomorrow. on "the beat." we can talk about what it's like to see himself in that moment,

sort of memorialized in cinema and a hell of a lot else tomorrow at 6:00. "the reidout" starts now. tonight on "the reidout" -- >> donald trump is increasingly unstable and unhinged. and will stop at nothing to claim unchecked power for himself. >> vice president kamala harris barnstorms wisconsin, highlighting her detailed plans and pointing out the dangers of another trump administration. also tonight, what their media strategists tell us about harris -- their media strategies tell us about harris and trump. she's going into hostile territory while trump is shielded safely in the arms of friendly right-wing media. plus, vice president harris says israel's killing of the hamas leader, quote, gives us an opportunity to finally end the

war in gaza. which benjamin netanyahu doesn't seem to agree with. >> but we begin tonight with just 19 days to go before the election. with voting already under way in multiple states. and after weeks of donald trump and his maga minions screaming that vice president kamala harris can't handle tough interviews and is hiding from the press, the vp walked into their house and proved them wrong. handling a very contentious interview with fox's 1950s send-up supposed straight news guy bret baier. and in addition to proving that she can take tough, sometimes belligerent questions, harris did a service for those of us on earth one. exposing how the right-wing media machine works to protect donald trump at all costs. to maintain the fiction that he is normal and stable and not senile or dangerous. that he's still the character

from "the apprentice" and not the sundowning 78-year-old wanna be dictator that those of us on earth one see every day. the host on fox, especially in primetime, don't expose their viewers to the unhinged, diminished, real donald trump. instead, their viewers see a completely different, carefully edited, sanewashed earth two trump. but last night, kamala harris pierced through the veil to give fox viewers a glimpse of reality. check out this moment when harris exposed fox's cynical editing tactics as she brought up trump's recent comments about siccing the military on, quote, the enemy within. >> he is the one who talks about an enemy within. an enemy within. talking about the american people. suggesting he would turn the american military on the american people. >> we asked that question to the

former president today. harris faulkner had a town hall, and this is how he responded. >> i heard about that. they were saying i was like threatening. i'm not threatening anybody. they're the ones doing the threatening. they do phony investigations. i have been investigated more than capone. it's true. but think of it, it's called weaponization of government. it's a terrible thing. >> bret, i'm sorry, and with all due respect, that clip was not what he has been saying about the enemy within that he has repeated when he is speaking about the american people. that's not what you just showed. >> busted. for the record, the vice president is correct. here is the full bite from that trump interview. >> it is the enemy from within. and they're very dangerous. they're marxist and communists and fascists and they're -- i use a guy like adam schiff because they made up the russia, russia, russia hoax. it took two years to solve the

problem. absolutely nothing was done wrong, et cetera. they're dangerous for our country. we have china, we have russia, all these countries. if you have a smart president, they could all be handled. the more difficult or you know, the pelosis, these people, they're so sick. and they're so evil. if they would spend their time trying to make america great again, it would be so easy to make this country great. but when i heard about that, they were saying i was threatening. i'm not threatening anybody. they're the ones doing the threatening. >> you see what they did there, cut out the last most important bit. there was another moment in the interview where he just played one of trump's campaign ads and asked harris to respond to it. imagine getting an opportunity to interview a presidential candidate three weeks from the election and uuse that valuable time to play their opponent's commercial for them for free. and you need to understand, this is what is happening all the time on fox.

especially for primetime. their viewers are being fed a false reality. in fact, it's probably the first time a lot of fox viewers heard that former members of trump's administration, including general mark milley, have called him dangerous, unstable, and unfit. sore the scores of economists who say harris' plan would improve the economy while trump's will cause inflation and a recession. she even said point blank, my presidency will not be a continuation of joe biden's, which is one of trump's favorite talking points. but that's probably one of the reasons that harris did the interview, to show independents and nikki haley voters that she's not the weak and dumb caricature donald trump has created of her. she's strong and capable and not afraid of right-wing media. last night was also a light bulb moment that brought me back to this moment from three days ago, when we all watched trump awkwardly swaying to songs like nothing compares to you, and

hallelujah for nearly 40 minutes at a pennsylvania town hall. what was happening before this senior moment is that he actually took five questions from an audience, from an audience member, and even in a room full of supporters, it wasn't going too well. he gave long rambling answers, talked about hannibal lecter when asked about inflation. and even told everyone to go vote on january 5th. as per usual, so you know, it's not totally out of the realm of possibility that he took a handful of questions, realized he couldn't handle it, and just decided to bail and instead just burn 40 minutes zoning out and playing some of his favorite tunes. and it seems like he and his team are somewhat aware that he's struggling. it would probably explain, right, why he's backed out of numerous interviews this month alone, for 60 minutes, then cnbc's "squawk box" and today,

the nra canceled an event where he was set to be a keynote speaker due to, quote, campaign changes. and brian stelter is reporting he also backed out of another interview in the works with nbc news on the economy, because unlike vice president harris last night, he's incapable of taking hard questions. most days he can't even give a coherent questions to softballs even at a friendly town hall. in fact, donald trump seems to believe that he is under no obligation to face any questions, even if they come on friendly territory. like his appearance at the economic club of chicago, where he imploded after being asked about one of his pet issues, tariffs. today, he retreated to one of his safe spaces, an interview with a manosphere podcast host. trump claimed he was hoodwinked into an interview with bloomberg's editor in chief and wasn't happy about it because he said he thought he was just supposed to show up and give a speech. the reality is, this

increasingly decompensating candidate will only go where he's coddled by the crowd. like his town hall with fox, aired yesterday with the benefit of being taped a day earlier. with an all-woman audience that was stacked with pro-trump republicans. something that was pretty evident from the start and when he was asked to respond to his own remarks calling democrats the enemy within -- >> the republican nominee for this year's presidential election, donald j. trump. welcome. >> mr. president, kamala harris has said you sounded unhinged and unchecked power is in our future. what do you say about that? >> i thought it was a nice presentation. i wasn't unhinged. >> hmm, but even faced with friendly fire, he once again simply weaved in the face of questions, especially on the economy. >> but what kind of realistic

changes do you think you can provide single parents, married parents, any kind of parent to just simply afford children in today's world with the way things are? >> it is not fair. >> no. >> you never heard of ivanka, right? >> so, what happens to the economy such that people can afford bacon that's gone up 28% in cost? what do we do? >> so, i feel so badly about what's happened. because none of this would have happened, just to start, there wouldn't have been a war in ukraine and russia. there wouldn't have been an october 7th in israel. >> that's his response to the cost of bacon? okay, but perhaps the greatest contrast with his opponent, vice president harris, came in how he ended the day. with a second televised town hall with univision where unlike his fox love fest, he did take tough questions from hispanic voters, but unlike vice president harris on fox, he couldn't hold his own. highlighted by his response to a

question about january 6th from a former republican construction worker from tampa, florida. >> i want to give you the opportunity to try to win back my vote. you know, what happened during january 6th and the fact that, you know, you waited so long to take action while your supporters were attacking the capitol, if you would answer these questions for me, i would really appreciate it, and your own vice president doesn't want to support you now. >> thank you. >> so the people that don't support are a very small portion, very importantly, you had hundreds of thousands of people come to washington. they didn't come because of me. they came because of the election. they thought the election was a rigged election. nothing done wrong at all, nothing done wrong, and action was taken, strong action. ashli babbitt was killed. nobody was killed. there were no guns down there. we didn't have guns. the others had guns but we didn't have guns. that was a day of love from the

standpoint of the millions, like hundreds of thousands. >> joining me now is denver riggleman, former republican congressman who is no longer affiliated with the party. i didn't know if you could see the way people were reacting as he said it was a day of love, and people were going, what are you talking about? he said no one was killed. what are you talking about? it seems to me that what we're seeing is trump confronting reality and not being used to it and not being able to handle it. what do you think? >> i think his whole life has been doing the weave. trying to get away from it. from getting away from reality. i think -- i'm sorry, joy. that's what me and you do here, but i think either he's deliberately lying and radicalizing people the same he did before the election in 2020, or he's too stupid to know the difference between fact and fiction. i think both of those are equally dangerous to the american public. i have said this before. i had individuals coming up to me and say he just says a lot of

stupid things but he doesn't follow through with him. i heard that a lot, and i'm like, that's sort of ridiculous. he followed through with contactually what he told billy bush on that "access hollywood" bus if you talk to e. jean carroll. if you talk about what he said about the election being stolen and how many times he mentioned violence or things of that nature before january 6th, it seemed like those individuals did exactly what he told them to do. i think it's a little ludicrous to think he does not believe what he says, which means that he is incredibly ignorant or that he's radicalizing individuals to do the same kind of ridiculousness we saw on january 6th and the stuff we're seeing lately with the type of violence around the country that we have today. >> e. jean carroll, you know, and about two dozen other women who have alleged similar behavior. i wrote down that as donald trump is at the town hall with the fox town hall, the audience actually laughed when he was -- when he's asked about wielding unchecked power. it occurs to me that a lot of

people who mainline fox, they don't believe he's dangerous because they only see this very edited version of him. they only see -- they don't get to hear what mark milley thinks of him. so in my sense, let's give you the numbers here. donald trump's -- special report, bret baier show, normally averages 2.5 million viewers a night. combined with the midnight airing, special reports with vice president harris scored 8.5 million viewers. by contrast, trump's town hall got 2.9 million viewers. we're talking about 8.5 million people. that's just that total, not even the people who have seen it on social media exposed to reality. let me play you the immediate -- i watched the interview, but then i watched the immediate response to it on fox. here it is. >> at times, especially when she was trying to go after donald trump, she was fairly effective in that. >> she was combative and energetic and she certainly landed some blows on donald trump. >> she definitely had a moment when she was talking about

donald trump and the threat she sees and inciting the former chairman of the joint chiefs. >> then they went right back to trashing her and saying she was terrible, but for a moment, i feel like reality was splashed on fox viewers. do you think that's effective in at least opening some people's minds to, wait a minute, maybe i'm not seeing full reality here? >> if they're already sucking down the electrons from fox, i don't know if they're going to change their mind at this point. i think it's actually what i saw in bucks county yesterday, with the republicans for harris rally, bucks county, pennsylvania, i got to see kamala harris in action, i got to talk to her. i got to see her interact with other former republican officials. you talk about energetic. you think about what she did yesterday. where she travels to and the fact is, she is killing donald trump with energy. she's killing donald trump with policy. and i think you're starting to see republicans are like, i'm going to vote for her, and they have this ridiculous thing where

they say despite her policy. her policies actually make sense. yesterday, i had said who said she sounds more like reagan than any republican now. that's interesting, when she's talking about foreign policy, specifically. and i'm not trying to completely conflate that, but i guess what i'm saying, joy, is i think she's actually, her energy and intelligence seeing it on display in real time, i think that's what's convincing people to vote for kamala harris. >> one of the other pieces, you're very honest about your positions on things. then you have people like mitch mcconnell who tells someone in a book and makes a recording of it that donald trump is a despicable human, unfit for office, that he's glad that he's being prosecuted. that the insurrectionists were narcicisstic just like trump. there are so many republicans who agree with you and geoff duncan, the former lieutenant governor of georgia, and olivia troye, our friend that's worked

for trump. but there are so many republicans being dishonest about how they feel about him, no wonder their supporters think he's great. because republicans won't tell them what they really think. >> that's sad because service should be the first thing you think of when you're actually elected to office. i think what you have with these individuals like mcconnell, they're very brave behind closed doors. but supposedly for an alpha male party, they certainly are subservient enough to prosttrait themselves before the altar of trump when they're in public. i think it speaks to their character and they have such a weak character and their moral compass is so skewed, they don't have the ability to get outside party politics and think about america first. what you're seeing with kamala now, you know i'm honest, if i disagree, where tell people. i really don't care. what political career did i have? i think what we're saying here is that when kamala speaks to you, you know she's telling you the truth. she actually wants to serve. i'm a pretty good judge of

character. i think that's what people are starting to get attracted to. and i think republicans, instead of just not pulling the lever for trump and then not pulling the lever for kamala, i think it's that 1 to 3% of republicans where we can say listen, i know you think trump, and i know you know this, i know you know he's a sexual abuser, i know you know he's a felon, a conspiracy theorist, i know you know he's a j-6 rabble-rouser, that he's in putin's pocket and that makes you not want to pull the lever for him, but if you're a patriot and you have a spine, pull the lever for kamala now. if you can't do that, i feel for you. >> yeah. i mean, and not only that, but there are people who will know all of that and say, yeah, but the economy. he's literally proposing a tariff scheme that would sink this country into a recession if not depression. if you think things cost a lot now, wait until everything imported, imported beer, imported everything, and we import most of what we buy here, everything in walmart goes up.

i think that is the other reality that she is exposing, and look, maybe she didn't get a single new viewer on fox, but if they just took that away, it was worth her going on. >> oh, my gosh, it was. what it shows is she's not afraid. that is something donald trump is showing, his fear of canceling 60 minutes, canceling cnbc. i mean, this guy, he's wrapped in marshmallows and sprayed with orange paint. what's going on here? you can't be a man and step out there? kamala harris, the woman, is smacking you around right now on national media. and i think that's what i like to see. i like somebody who wants to lead from the front and not lead from the rear. lying all the time while they're doing it. i think that's what donald trump is doing now. >> denver riggleman who has left us with the image of donald trump wrapped in marshmallows and sprayed in orange paint, which we both thank and condemn you. thank you, my friend. take care. thank you. coming up, more on kamala

harris' strategy of not being afraid to go anywhere, as denver just said, from fox to a possible interview with joe rogan as she wraps up a packed day of campaigning in a key state of wisconsin. how she's reaching an unprecedented number of potential voters, next. ent for eosinophilic asthma that is taken once every 8 weeks. fasenra is not for sudden breathing problems or other eosinophilic conditions. allergic reactions may occur. don't stop your asthma treatments without talking with your doctor. tell your doctor if your asthma worsens. headache and sore throat may occur. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. step back out there with fasenra. ask your doctor if it's right for you. (♪♪) (music playing) one in five children worldwide are faced with the reality of living without food, no family dinners, no special treats,

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6th? he called it a, quote, a day of love. but it points out something that everyone here knows. the american people are exhausted with his gaslighting. exhausted. with his gaslighting. enough. >> that was vice president kamala harris today in the battleground state of wisconsin. she's expected to take the stage at any moment now at another rally in green bay, before heading off to michigan and georgia over the next few days. as we move into the final weeks of the campaign, the vice president is putting herself in front of as many voters as possible and even taking her message into hostile territory, as we saw last night appearing for what was a combative interview with bret baier on fox. it might have been one of the few times fox viewers heard directly from vp harris outside the spin the network teendz put on its coverage. joining me is marcia fudge,

former secretary of housing and urban development in the biden administration. secretary fudge, thank you for being here. talk to me a little bit about the strategy here of going into what might be called hostile media territory. >> thanks for having me, joy. the strategy is what the vice president has said from the beginning. she wants to be the president of all of the people. and many people that she wants to represent only watch fox. i think it's important when you go into hostile territory to be able to say the same thing you're saying in friendly territory, which is the truth. 7 million people watch that interview last night. so 7 million people heard her talk about the truth about the economy, that the biden/harris team really did not inherit a good economy. that inflation really started under donald trump. people don't understand that he put us in $8 trillion worth of debt, lost lots of jobs, and it has been totally reversed. she talked about her vision for america. and she talked about why it was important for us to all come

together. and why it was important for her to be there at that time. so it is real, real clear to me. 7 million people. >> yeah. and that's not even to include all of the clips that are going around that lots of people saw as well. this is her today, because the other thing is, sometimes hostile territory comes to you. so this is vp harris at her rally today in la crosse, wisconsin. >> oh, you guys are at the wrong rally. you know, i think you meant to go to the smaller one down the street. >> the dis, the smile, the wave, the gather. just in case people forget that sister went to howard university, okay. divine nine knows how to gather

one. let's talk a little bit about some of the other things she's talked about that actually really do go to issues that people care about, one is one you know a lot about since you were hud director. and it's the issue of housing. let's put up this poll. housing in the increased cost of housing, 62% of voters said that is a critical issue for them. more than any other issue. even more than abortion, which is moving a lot of folks. let me let you listen to vice president harris discussing what she's going to do on housing when roland martin interviewed her earlier this week. >> i'm going to create tax incentives for home builders and developers to build 3 million new housing units by the end of my first term, because a big part of jacking up the prices has been there's -- the supply is not meeting demand so the prices are higher. and when you couple that with $25,000 down payment assistance, we have the ability to give people the opportunity to

achieve what generations before call the american dream. but which has been out of reach for too many people. >> you have expertise, obviously, in this area both as a member of -- a former member of congress and former hud director. that is critical. what do you make of that response and what her plans are regarding housing since you have seen the way that that's jacked up december the prices have jacked up? >> i can't tell you how excited i am about it. housing has been a crisis in this country for decades. but it has become so, so big that i am so excited about the fact that this person, this vice president, understands enough about it to go at it. to actually try to find solutions. not just talk about it, find solutions. until we put more supply into the market, we are always going to have a crisis of housing. we as a nation, joy, for decades have not put any kind of resources into affordable housing. so we have neglected to make sure that everybody could in

fact have the american dream. because we have not made it possible. so i am all in on everything she's doing, because if somebody doesn't do it, it's going to get worse. we need 4 million housing units today, today. the number grows every day. so the only way to make it better is to put more housing in the market. and i'm really, really happy she's taking it on. it's a tough battle. >> let me play a piece of the breakfast club interview with charlamagne tha god. this is one of my favorite parts of the interview because this is something vice president harris doesn't do a lot, talking about herself and her own history and faith. take a listen. >> i will always work closely with the church. because i understand who our church leaders are and who the congregation is. we're talking about people who are driven by faith and the ability to see what is possible, by faith, where i was raised and i know many of us were, understanding that our god is a

loving god, that our faith propels us to act in a way that is about kindness and justice and mercy. that is about lifting one another up. and let's talk about the contrast here. donald trump and his followers spend full time trying to suggest the measure of the strength of a leader is based on who you beat down, which is absolutely contrary to the church i know. >> she also talked about her pastor, the reverend amos brown who we both know. is part of the purpose of doing these non-network type interviews to let people get to know her more in the final stretch? >> there's no question about it. if you're around her for any length of time, you know she has faith. i mean, because if she didn't, she would sound like donald trump. here's a person selling bibles who has no faith. you can't be a christian and have faith, joy, if you hate everybody that is not like you. if you believe that there are people who are not deserving or unworthy. you cannot be. i am so glad that she's finally starting to open up.

it is hard, she is a very closed, private kind of person. nice as she can possibly be. but doesn't talk about herself much. i'm so really glad that she is because faith is what drives her. and that is why she cares. >> marcia fudge, thank you very much, the honorable marcia fudge, much appreciated. coming up, a major development out of the middle east with israel announcing they killed hamas leader yahya sinwar, the architect of the october 7th attack. stay with us. ith us advil liqui-gels are faster and stronger than tylenol rapid release gels. ♪♪ also from advil,

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from gaza today. yahya sinwar, the leader of hamas, who was viewed as the architect behind the october 7 attack on israel, has been killed. the israel defense forces said sinwar was killed by soldiers in an operation in southern gaza on wednesday. putting an end to their year-long manhunt for the militant chief. in remarks today, prime minister benjamin netanyahu called the death the end of the evil rule of hamas. but that the mission has not been completed. president biden released a statement today that partially said, quote, israel has had every right to eliminate the leadership and military structure of hamas. hamas is no longer capable of carrying out another october 7th. sinwar's death serves as a major inflection point for the remaining hostages. the hostage family forum said in

a statement today, all parties must immediately seize this opportunity to bring home the 101 remaining hostages, including seven americans, before it is too late. joining me is ayman mohyeldin, host of ayman on msnbc. what are the immediate implications here and the longer term implications because israel has now killed both the militant leader of hamas, but also the person they were negotiating with. so there's sort of a top level of the structure has been decimated. what is the impact? >> yeah, i mean, there's two ways to look at it. one is the impact as it related to the hostages which is an important question. two, the ability for israel to achieve one of its stated objectives to make sure hamas can no longer govern gaza and also try to destroy the organization. when you start with the former, the issue of the hostages, that is going to be a very difficult situation. right now, the narrative that israel had been putting out for the last several months was that sinwar was hiding in a tunnel

surrounded by the israeli hostages and that made it impossible for them either to go after him without killing the hostages or trying to rescue the hostages in a scenario where he doesn't sabotage that. as we saw today, that is not the case. so the immediate question that comes to mind is, where are the israeli hostages in gaza? who is holding them? where are they being held? secondly, if you somehow try to resume negotiations, who are you going to be negotiating with inside gaza? you have killed sinwar, you have killed all of the senior leaders of hamas. and so right now, just from a purely operational point of view, the government and others may be able to negotiate with the exiled leaders of hamas in doha, but those exiled leaders in doha may not be able to communicate with anybody on the ground who actually knows where the hostages are. so that is the issue related to the hostages. in terms of the organization, this is no doubt a severe blow to the organization. they had their political leader killed, their military

commanders killed and now their leader inside gaza killed rendering the organization at least operationally, severely disrupted if not debilitated. >> sinwar, just the history of this, this is somebody, his parents were displaced in what palestinians called the catastrophe of 1948. he joined hamas after it was founded in 1987. not an old organization. he was arrested in 1988, sentenced to four life terms. he was released in 2011 when netanyahu was the prime minister. and there was this sort of weird way in which netanyahu wanted there to be a hamas because he didn't want to have to negotiate a two-state solution with the palestinian authority. now that this man is dead, what would be the excuse for not returning to the table and trying to negotiate some sort of end to the war and a final status for the palestinians? >> well, the israelis will be the first to tell you the long

list of excuses as to why they can't have peace is they don't have a durable partner on the other side. they have always looked at the palestinians as not being dependable or reliable enough. that's what they pushed about other palestinian factions. they have always looked at the palestinians and said this is not a party that we can come to a peace agreement with because of a variety of reasons. from the palestinian perspective, the issue remains quite fundamental as it has been for the last 75 years. israel has been on a mission to continue to settle the land between the river to the sea and the palestinians who are in between the river to the sea are an obstacle for them to be able to fulfill their zionist dream. any scenario in which palestinians emerge with leaders, organizations, militant groups, civil organizations, nonviolent movement, has always been met by israel and the inability to reach a peace agreement. it really kind of depends on who you're asking but the bottom

line is as you said, there have been multiple organizations, before hamas, there was fatah, before then, there was dflp. there's a long list of organizations israel has considered to be terrorists of the state that they destroy or weaken but never make peace with their successors. >> lastly, for the biden administration, where do they go from here? they're now saying this is an opportunity to end the war, but they don't seem to have a ton of leverage. >> they don't have a ton of leverage, and quite honestly, they have warned israel about so many things and israel has defied them. they warned them not to invade rafah, to improve the humanitarian situation, not to attack lebanon, yet all of these scenarios have been met with defiance by the israelis with zero consequence. so right now, there united states is talking about a new chapter. unrealistically, it doesn't have much leverage over the israelis to actually impose that new chapter. >> ayman mohyeldin, thank you

for your expertise. and coming up, the u.s. reaction to yahya sinwar's death. once again injecting the middle east conflict into u.s. politics. three weeks before the election. next. n. next able to lay my hand flat. three — i want a nonsurgical recovery. ♪♪ four — i want options — nonsurgical options. and five... and if nonsurgical treatment isn't offered? ♪♪ i'll get a second opinion. let's go! take charge of your treatment. if you can't lay your hand flat, visit findahandspecialist.com to get started.

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anything can change the world of work. from hr to payroll, adp designs for the next anything. israel has a right to defend itself. and the threat hamas poses to israel must be eliminated. today, there is clear progress

toward that goal. hamas is decimated and its leadership is eliminated. this moment gives us an opportunity to finally end the war in gaza. >> an opportunity to finally end the war in gaza. that was vice president kamala harris responding to the news that hamas leader yahya sinwar was killed during an israeli operation in gaza. a death that achieves one of israel's top objectives. here at home, officials said that sinwar had been a major road block to a hostage deal in recent weeks. hostage families today echoed the vice president, calling on the u.s. and israel to leverage this moment to finally make a deal. >> this is a critical time sensitive development, as it relates to the hostages. their lives are in great danger now. more than ever. we're calling on the israeli government and the u.s. administration to act swiftly and do whatever is needed to

reach a deal with the captures. >> we are at an inflection point with the goal set for the war with gaza has been achieved, all but the release of the hostages. >> news of sinwar's death comes 377 days into the war, 19 days from our elections here in the u.s. and two days after the u.s. threatened to withhold military aid from israel over humanitarian concerns in gaza, which with benjamin netanyahu today vowing to not stop the war, and his national security minister calling for an increase in military pressure, quote, until absolute victory, again, raises the question of how much leverage president biden has at this point. joining me now are tariq habash and josh paul, who former biden administration officials who have quit over the policy and who have launched a nonpartisan political action policy to help reform policy on the middle east, specifically regarding

israel and the palestinians. thank you both for being here. i want to start with you. given what we now know these developments in the middle east, does that give you a sense of hope that we can start to have a reset in terms of the policy that drove you out of the administration? >> i think it's hard to really be hopeful when you hear what netanyahu has been saying, what ben guveer just said about increasing the war. what we're seeing is an unwillingness by the israeli leadership to really create space for a peace deal to bring palestinians back to the table. and i think until we see president biden, whoever is coming out of this election, just in a few short weeks, until we see real pressure coming from them, real accountability for the israeli military actions that have ledknow if there is a of hope to be had just yet. >> let me read something called the generals plan from the washington post. netanyahu mulls a plan to

empty northern gaza of civilians and cut off aid, to starve out the remaining hamas membership. plan under scrutiny as the u.s. demands future change. that doesn't sound like someone who says we have achieved our war aims and want to make peace. your organization wants to make fundamental changes in policy but it does not sound like there will be much, at least on the israeli side at all. >> what it sounds like his ethnic cleansing. our organization is focused as we should be on the american complicity and american part of that. our alliance with israel, the support we have been giving israel in weapons and diplomatic support and military support in the last year has dragged this country down into that same deep hole. we now face shattered credibility around the world and you know, shattered relationships and we now see is in doubt. why is this in america's interest? this is the question we are asking, why is this in

america's interest and how is this in line with american values? i think it is clear that it is not. at the same time we have politicians who are not willing to speak up and express that. we know many elected officials see it differently because we hear that behind closed doors, but they always end the conversation by saying i can never say that publicly, so clearly there is a barrier between what people want, what politicians know and what politicians are actually willing to deliver and a new policy is there to break that barrier. >> and you can see in the polling, the younger people are, the more they want a change in the policy and you want to know what the barrier is and people are getting primary. so how does one change that? how do you change that when there is a lot on the table in terms of people losing positions in government if they try to speak out? >> you are absolutely right and i think it is by building political power and we do that

because you see the shift in civil society. we see every single poll that comes out. the majority of americans do not want to see american weapons going to killing children and women and doctors. american people don't want a continuation of this violence. they want to see a cease-fire and this is not just a generational issue, but it certainly is the young generation leading the charge, but it is a multiethnic issue, and multifaith issue. when we talk about building a movement, building political power and addressing this barrier that josh is talking about, we have to do that from the ground up. we have to work with people across the country. we have to work with our partners who have been doing this work for a long time. we have to do it in a way that we are showing the american people that they have power and we can communicate with elected officials in a way that they hear their constituents, because constituents are the one selecting them. once they realize that there is a real disconnect, i think we have a chance at shifting that overton window. >> and the element in the room,

it is the democrats were the ones who are maybe movable on this issue. there is an election in 19 days, so there is a lot of fear of any change in policy and even a change in the discussion. how do you confront that? >> first of all there is more to democracy than elections and i think it is important that we engage across civil society, bring people into the conversation and not cut them out of the conversation because this is something that does not get resolved in the ballot and regardless of the outcome of the election we know there will be continued challenges when it comes to american policy in this regard. what we need is a long-term effort through many election cycles and that is what this will take. >> i have seen conversations in which people have named specific things they want to see. they want to see an arms embargo. other sorts of specifics. do you all from your point of view have specifics in mind

that you think would fundamentally change things? >> right now there are a handful of things that are really important, but first we have to think about what is happening at home and the reality is we are seeing real limitations to american civil liberties. rights issues that are affecting americans around the country, on college campuses. affecting people's ability to get jobs. affecting the ability to engage economically and choose where they spend their money. i think it is important that we protect americans ability to make sure they can make those decisions for themselves and once we do that i think we have an opportunity to engage in this discourse in a way that we are helping move forward. >> you have five minutes with kamala harris. what would you say? >> i would say that first of all you need to show that you are willing to make a difference. the you are willing to enforce the law. >> tariq habash, thank you very much and josh paul, thank you very much to both of you and good luck. we will be right back. back.

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