politics, particularly about the u.s. election. we were in cardiff, manchester, glasgow, sold out. the level of detail of people's questions and the level of -- i mean, you know, all the people we spoke to were just horrified and concerned and afraid of what might happen in the united states if donald trump is re-elected. not just if he is re-elected, but what it says about the country that is our closest ally. >> taylor swift eras tour. you two at the atmosphere. katty kay and the mooch, we appreciate it. we'll talk to you on "morning joe" in a second. special correspondent for bbc news, katty, of course, thank you. thanks to all of you for getting up "way too early" with us on this friday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. we're not going to be gaslighted on this. we remember, donald trump hand-selected three members of the united states supreme court, with the intention that they would undue the protections of

roe v. wade, and they did as he intended. oh, i couldn't guys are at the -- you guys are at the wrong rally. [ applause ] no, i think you meant to go to the smaller one down the street. >> that's pretty good. vice president kamala harris responding to anti-abortion protesters yesterday in wisconsin. it was at one of three stops for her across that key battleground state. we'll have more from the campaign trail in just a moment. we'll also have more about her interview with fox news, including how many more people tuned in for her very revealing sit-down with bret baier compared to donald trump's town hall on the same network. speaking of the former president, he was in new york yesterday for a charity dinner that is traditionally attended

by both presidential candidates. but he spent part of his day on social media, on his personal social media platform, obsessing over kamala harris' interview with "60 minutes," an interview he refused to do. also ahead, elon musk was in pennsylvania yesterday pushing debunked and dangerous conspiracy theories about election fraud. we'll play for you those comments. and we'll have the latest out of the middle east following an operation that killed hamas leader yahya sinwar. admiral james stavridis and richard haass will join us with their expert insight on this developing situation. this has major implications for the world. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is friday, october 18th. we begin on the campaign trail where vice president kamala harris made several stops in battleground wisconsin yesterday. here's some of what she had to

say in la crosse, wisconsin. >> donald trump was at a univision town hall, where a voter asked him about january 6th. okay. so now we here know, january 6th was a tragic day. it was a day of terrible violence. there were attacks on law enforcement. 140 law enforcement officers were injured. some were killed. and what did donald trump say last night about january 6th? he called it a, quote, a day of love. but, but it points out something that everyone here knows. the american people are exhausted with his gaslighting. exhausted with his gaslighting!

enough! we are ready to turn the page. and then consider the comments that he made just in the last few days, because he just -- he's got more. he said he will target and punish those who disagree with him or refuse to bend to his will. he calls these americans the enemy within. [ crowd booing ] and says that he would use the american military to go after american citizens. journalists whose stories he doesn't like. nonpartisan election officials who refuse to cheat by finding a few extra votes for him. judges who insist on following

the law instead of following him. >> all right. let's bring in the host of "way too early," white house bureau chief at "politico," jonathan lemire. u.s. special correspondent for bbc news, katty kay. nbc news national affairs analyst and a partner in chief political columnist at "puck," john heilemann. and pulitzer prize winning columnist and associate editor of "the washington post," eugene robinson. where to begin? john heilemann, i'll start with you, and then i want to get to fox news and an update that is even more revealing than the interview itself on the kamala harris interview with bret baier. but, heilemann, how is she looking on the campaign trail in terms of her ability to keep the energy up and also to keep the fire at donald trump in terms of exactly what he's doing that she considers to be a danger? >> mika, i would say that the thing that we were hearing from

the peanut gallery and from the democratic, i guess david plouffe would call the bedwetting caucus, a week ago, is she's not doing enough interviews, she's not out there, she's not doing campaign events. whatever the merits of those comments a week ago, you're not hearing them now. i think the combination of the two weeks now of solid media engagement across the range of mainstream, things that everyone in the washington beltway, kind of establishment media wants her to do, whether it's "60 minutes," go on fox news, she did those things. she did the charlamagne tha god. she did "call her daddy." every possible outlet you could do in the alternative media, the non-mainstream media. we're waiting for her to go on joe rogan. that was something the campaign was pursuing for various reasons, having to do with the

target groups left for her. she's had this full-court media assault and has come through it, in some cases having done exceptionally well, in some cases having done just fine. she seems to be full bore on the campaign trail. you saw her in the wisconsin clip we played. a couple very strong in terms of energy. also, i don't know how long she'd been cooking up that "you're at the wrong rally. you should be at the smaller one up the street." i have no idea whether it came to her in the moment or whether she's been waiting for a while to drop that on a heckler, but, man, it's a world class torching. >> that was fantastic. of course, donald trump would say the person should be beat up. it's a good contrast, as well. i think establishing the contrast is so important here. jonathan lemire, the contrast is, in exactly what john heilemann was saying. i mean, while kamala harris is blanketing swing states with appearances, five appearances a

day, multiple rallies in a day, i mean, this is as energetic as it gets and pretty positive in terms of tone. also, very, very -- a big warning, as much as she can, to americans about what's at stake here. on the other hand, former president donald trump appears to be cancelling every interview that has any slight possibility of holding him to account. >> yeah, i was in washington the last couple days, mika, speaking to senior democrats and harris allies. a number of them concede that the slower pace of her schedule there for a few weeks, that was a mistake. they have corrected it in a significant way. she's been barnstorming, hitting the campaign trail, three events in wisconsin yesterday, doing these media interviews, and they are thrilled with the fallout from the fox news interview. they think she showed real strength there. we'll get into it, but the way she tussled back with bret baier, called him out on the selective edit. they think that really played well. there are a lot of people watching that, including women

watching that, who will recognize that dynamic of harris continually being interrupted, being not able to speak, and it'll resonate with them. they think she stood up to a bully in the moment, and it'll play well. as for trump, yeah, he made an appearance at the al smith dinner last night and was decidedly not funny. turned it into a campaign rally. harris skipped it, sent in a video message instead. he canceled a series of interviews, also canceled seemingly easy events for him. including an appearance at an nra convention in georgia in a couple days. that's been scrapped, too. it seems like his team is really trying to play it safe right here, trying to run out the clock. that's a mistake, i'd think, because polls suggest this is a complete toss-up race. democrats, mika, right now that i speak to the last couple days feel a lot better about things. yes, they know it's close, but they feel better than two weeks

ago. they feel harris has room to grow at the end in the closing weeks. >> it turns out, i believe like 8 million people watched the fox interview. i've heard a number from 7 million to 8.2. they got to see everything all at once in one moment. i actually think it was one of -- a more important moment in political history, modern political history than we could have imagined when it actually happened. as i look back at it, what she was able to do in that one moment when she called out bret baier for showing the wrong clip, for misleading the american people, she was able to point again to donald trump's threat to go after his political adversaries with the military and show how a friendly media network that bends to his will will play to him, even avoiding stories. they show completely the wrong clip. she calls him out on it.

now, let me tell you, from being in tv news all my life, local, cable, network, anybody at this table, i know the producers in the booth, if a clip runs and it's wrong, everybody knows it right away. it's like not the clip you're expecting. you know what you're expecting. bret baier is really intelligent. i mean, they've got the best producers there, highest rated shows. they knew it was the wrong clip. if they'd even said something in the broadcast that they did 20 minutes later after the interview, it would have been reasonable. they waited a full day to tuck into the end of bret's show, oh, by the way, i did make a mistake. i did not see the clip i was expecting. here's the clip i was expecting. okay, moving on. and no one on the network has talked about the clip at all. all they've done is talk about

how kamala harris is nasty. but they haven't talked about how she actually called out fox news, on fox news, for what they do, which is sometimes disinformation, depending on the show. at other times, it's subtle like this. misleading the american public, moving things, avoiding the actual point of the story, or just not covering it. in this case, it was all revealed in one moment by the candidate who was in the hot seat during a contentious interview. yet, she noticed the clip was wrong. he didn't? i'm absolutely certain he knew it was the wrong clip, and he should have said it right away. gene, your new column in "the washington post" is titled "harris ought to send bret baier flowers for that fox news interview." i agree. tell us more. >> absolutely. because what an opportunity she

had. it was a moment. there was potential great peril for her in going on that interview with fox news, and there was also a potential bigup big upside. she got all she could have gotten and more. first of all, she got to present herself as she is, not as the caricature that fox viewers have been told she is since she got in the race, or even before. she's not this sort of empty, vacuous shell. >> right. >> who speaks only in word salad. in fact, she is a forceful, really informed public servant who has command on the issues, who doesn't back down from anybody, and who was able to not

just sort of stand up to what a lot of people saw as bullying, but snap back at it and call it out. >> i don't know. the video -- hey, gene, the video we just showed, i don't know if we can put it up again, but it is really important. that is such an important moment. she's telling him, you've got the wrong clip. look at him. >> yeah, mm-hmm. >> he's not owning up to it. he is hoping that she'll get really angry. but the thing is, they have shown the wrong clip, and he is not saying to his viewers, you're right, that was the wrong clip. let's get the right clip prepared, or let's find it and show it. instead, he moves on and leaves it hanging there. and, i'm sorry, that is what they do. i'm really glad that 8.2 million americans had a chance, if they

wanted it, and a lot of people can't be moved, but had a chance to see what they do in real time. i'll let you continue with your point. we have a lot of things to get to. >> absolutely right. that is absolutely right. it's another -- it was a huge benefit that she got out of this interview that i didn't see coming, which was exposing what fox news does. that was -- i mean, on fox news. i thought that was incredible. the other thing she got to do is to explain, yes, she does have policies. the fox viewers have been told over and over again that, oh, she doesn't have any policies. who is she? what is she about? what does she want to do? she got to talk about what she will do as president of the united states, her economic programs, and, oh, by the way, you might not have heard that all the national security

officials who worked for donald trump are all opposing him this time around pause they think he is so dangerous. >> right. >> oh, by the way, i just came from an event with 100 republicans who are crossing party lines to vote for me instead of donald trump. she got to put facts into the right-wing media bubble which believes in alternative facts. i thought that was really significant. it was like putting a virus into that machine. all in all, i thought it was -- she got more out of it than she could have possibly hoped. >> actually, it was a service. another person having huge rallies is katty kay abroad. i want to talk about that coming up. we have to get to the major developing news out of the middle east. but i cannot wait to hear about how folks abroad are looking at this election.

but we turn now to the major development out of the middle east and the death of hamas leader yahya sinwar. yesterday, israeli defense forces posted this on social media, announcing they've eliminated the head of the terrorist organization. israeli troops found sinwar by chance in southern gaza on wednesday, ending a year long search for the man believed to be the architect of the october 7th attack. officials say troops were patrolling an area of rafah when they noticed three terrorists fleeing from house to house. the two sides then engaged in gunfire, and all three militants were killed. it was only then that israeli forces suspected one of those terrorists might be yahya sinwar. the idf later ran dna tests to confirm his identity.

nbc news correspondent hala gorani has more on this from tel-aviv. >> reporter: we have new details on the operation that led to the killing offiah ya-sin war, the leader of hamas. we were briefed by hagari, one of the spokespeople for the israeli military. he showed and projected drone video showing the last moments of yahya sinwar, sitting slumped in a chair in a bombed out house. the drone captured images of him. he appeared injured. he threw a piece of wood at the drone as it was flying, coming close to him in the building. then we understand, according to hagari, that israeli forces fired at the building, killing the individual. it is only the following day that israeli forces conducted a sweep of the area and realized that the man that they had killed looked, according to the soldiers on the ground, a lot like yahya sinwar.

they identified him through fingerprints and dental records. they had the information about yahya sinwar because this is a man who spent 22 years in israeli prison and was released only in 2011. two other people were also killed. we don't know what their names are or what ranks they held within hamas. now, the hostage families have reacted. of course, they are hoping that this development will bring them closer to the day they are reunited with their loved ones. palestinians, as well, inside the gaza strip, one of our teams caught up with ordinary palestinians in the besieged enclave, they, too, were hoping the fact that yahya sinwar is now dead means, perhaps, the end of the war is near. but the israeli prime minister has said that that is not the case. in fact, the war will continue with full force until all the hostages are released. >> let's bring in president

emeritus of the council on foreign relations, richard haass. he is the author of the weekly newsletter "home and away," available on substack. and former supreme allied commander of nato, retired four star navy admiral james stavridis. chief international analyst for nbc news. where to begin? admiral, i guess i'll start with you. if you could, talk about the implications and moving forward, what happens? >> well, first and foremost, a very good day in the world of counterterrorism. yahya sinwar has significant blood on his hands, not just israeli but also for americans. i, for one, salute the israeli defense forces on a signal victory. i have heard and i agree with the comparisons to taking out osama bin laden. it's really at that level within the context of the middle east. point two to be made is, i am

hopeful that this opens some new possibilities for a cease-fire. i think we heard already from the prime minister of israel that perhaps the war will simply continue as it is. let us hope that there can be a path to cease-fire, calming the situation in gaza. hamas is effectively broken as an organization. their ideology will perhaps continue on. i think, frankly, in the end, many of the palestinians in gaza will be happy to see the back of yahya sinwar. third and finally, from a u.s. perspective, this is the moment for the biden administration, my view, to redouble their efforts at the cease-fire piece of this. i think it's a given that israel will continue combat north in hezbollah territory, but i think there is a possibility here. i don't want to state it, don't

want to get ahead of ourselves, but let us hope there can be some life breathed into the cease-fire. >> richard, tom friedman has reporting on a kind of -- on tony blinken's efforts with arab countries to get to the day after, what it'd look like in gaza, including a pan arab security force based in the strip. how does the killing of yahya sinwar make it more or less likely, and what might the timeframe for that be? >> it's up to essentially the israelis, whether it is more likely. whether you have a cease-fire or not, that takes both hamas and israel to do. it takes two to tango or to stop dancing. it's not clear that you'll have the leadership on the hamas side to make such a choice. not clear whether israel would accept it. to go to the aftermath, that's something that can be done a bit more with u.s. leadership. i would actually say this is a moment to think big. the united states, working with the uae, with saudi arabia, with egypt, now ought to press very

hard for bringing in an arab stabilization force into gaza, and call upon israel to introduce, at long last, a political component that they have been -- that that's refused to introduce. to say, we're prepared to participate in the process that includes the palestinian authority or revamped palestinian authority. no one asking anyone to sign on to a two-state solution today. but at least begin a credible process, enough that does two things. it gets an arab stabilization force to enter gaza so you'll have some security and governance. by the way, this would not be peacekeeping. this would potentially have to fight off hamas remnants. and begin a conversation with palestinians. the way to defeat hamas is not just with a gun. be marginalized. show palestinians there is an alternative and better path for them to secure some of their future. that's something only israel can introduce by introducing a political component to its policy. >> admiral, to richard's point,

i have new reporting this morning. the white house certainly sees this as an opportunity. at minimum, they hope the de-escalation of the fighting, yes, but they want, they feel like they can perhaps get back to the cease-fire for hostage release deal, thinking that now, with sinwar's death, it'll placate some of the extreme forces in netanyahu's government who just want to continue the bombardment. maybe this gives momentum to those there who say, we can start easing up. let's get the hostages home. my question to you is, do we think netanyahu is going to listen? >> i am not sure if he will, simply because there is a certain level of momentum in vested interest on the part of bibi netanyahu for the conflict to continue. it pushes off the inevitable investigation into what happened on october 7th. a massive failure of his government intelligence and defense. secondly, he has his own legal challenges. all of that comes back into the

spotlight if the war diminishes. he will have to, in my view, look hard in the mirror and make the right choice for the state of israel. let's hope he does so. we're talking a lot about the israelis, the palestinians, and washington. there is another actor, of course, and that'd be tehran. what are the iranians going to do? they're kind of reeling at the moment. watching hamas severely degraded. hezbollah in the process of being degraded. massive strikes in yemen by long-range u.s. strategic bombers against the houthis. yes, tehran is feeling the incoming, as we'd say in the military world, but they -- make no mistake, they will be involved in these decisions, and we ought to watch that flank of the conversation, as well. >> richard, i want to show you someone -- on a completely

different topic, what could be someone who, let's put it this way, is not on the side of america. donald trump is continuing with claims about russia's invasion of ukraine. i want to show you what he said on a podcast yesterday. take a listen. >> i think zelenskyy is one of the greatest salesman i've ever seen. every time he comes in, we give him $100 billion. who else got that money in history? there's never been. that doesn't mean i don't want to help him because i feel very badly for those people. but he should never have let that war start. that war is a loser. ukraine, remember, is not ukraine anymore. every city almost is knocked down to the ground. all those beautiful golden domes are laying on their side. smashed to smithereens. >> richard, take it away. >> the idea that zelenskyy

quote, unquote, let that war begin, i've heard of rewritings of history. >> wow. >> this was a war, shall we say, that was made in moscow. ukraine has fought bravely now for 2 1/2 years. close to fighting russia to a standstill, despite the disparity between the two societies and military. if donald trump were to be elected, if he really wants the war to end, the only way he can make it end would be by supporting zelenskyy against putin, to essentially persuade putin that time is not on his side. if vladimir putin concludes the west won't support ukraine, then putin has no incentive to compromise. if, however, it is clear the united states will support ukraine militarily, and will allow ukraine to attack certain targets within russia that have been off limits, essentially the cost of the war comes to russia, the future doesn't promise what mr. putin wanted, and that sets

the stage for negotiation. donald trump says he wants to be a deal maker. if elected, the only way he can be a deal maker on terms that would not undermine the west would be to be much more supportive of ukraine. if vice president harris is the next president, again, there i think you'll have a clear commitment to ukraine. it does potentially set the stage. 2025 or 2026, the emphasis begins to shift away from the battlefield to the negotiating table. but for that to happen successfully, there's got to be conditions on the battlefield that, again, persuade really both sides that they're not going to realize their aims militarily. they've got to reemphasize or introduce the diplomatic dimension. >> president emeritus of the council on foreign relations, richard haass, thank you very much. and retired four star navy admiral james stavridis, thank you, as well. his new book, "the restless wave," is out now. we appreciate your both coming on this morning. still ahead on "morning joe," governor tim walz and

former president bill clinton hit the campaign trail together. we'll play for you what they had to say to voters in battleground north carolina. plus, as elon musk steps up his work on behalf of former president trump -- there he is on stage -- vice president harris is joined by her own billionaire ally, mark cuban. we'll get into that ahead on "morning joe." we're back in 90 seconds.