just imagine donald trump with no guardrails. right? he who has vowed, if re-elected, he will be a dictator on day one. he who has called, he who has called for the, quote, termination of the constitution of the united states of america.

and let us be very clear, someone who suggests we should terminate the constitution of the united states should never again stand behind the seal of the president of the united states! >> all right. that was vice president kamala harris rallying across wisconsin yesterday. we're going to speak with one of her campaign national co-chairs in a moment. i want to take to that question she just put to her audience there. welcome back to "morning joe." it's friday, if you can believe it, october 18th. jonathan lemire, katty kay, and john heilemann, donny deutsch, and reverend al sharpton are all with us. katty, i want to just imagine donald trump with no guardrails. i think it is really important that she brought up that point. we're going to get to major developments in the middle east

in just a moment, but to wind my way to foreign policy, trump with no guardrails is a threat to his adversaries, to members of the media, and that includes members of friendly media, of fox news, newsmax, all these networks that think that if they're in the tank for him, they'll somehow get a pass. they won't. he turns on everybody. republicans, trumpers voting -- can't call them republicans really -- voting for donald trump, their freedoms will be taken away. he'll be taking away the freedoms of the american people, something he is threatening to do to political adversaries. that could be anybody he doesn't like. that could be a show he doesn't like. that could be something said at a baseball game that he doesn't like. does that sound crazy? oh, she's crazy. she's overreacting. hold on, hold on, let me bring

it back to reality. it is not an overreaction. it is actually what he is saying. you can talk about the talk about what he is saying, or you can look at what he is saying. i am imploring the american public to listen to what he is saying. he's already done this. he's already taken away freedoms. if i sound repetitive, that's okay. i'm hoping it'll break through. he's taken away 50 years of freedoms for women in this country. that's already happened. women's access to life-saving health care is gone under donald trump and his strict abortion bans. women have been bleeding out. they've been sterilized. they've been forced to suffer and even die because of the freedoms that donald trump has taken away from women in america. so when i -- i talk about the concerns here at home, they're

very real. as real would be, and this is where, katty, i'd love for you to comment, what would our position in the world be with donald trump as president again? >> so i've covered six american elections now. in this election, we have two former secretaries of defense, a former joint chiefs of staff, a former security adviser, and former chief of staff of donald trump's, all saying he is unfit to be president of the united states. that's a fact. >> fascist to the core. fascist to the core is what one of them said. >> i've never covered an election in america, and i don't think there has been one in modern times, where you've had that array of senior people from the national security side, the people who are charged with helping protect the united states' interests and security, who have come out and said this person should not be sitting in the oval office.

it just -- that's the fact, right? it doesn't happen. i think when you talk to republicans who are on the fence about donald trump or say, well, i like the tax cuts, or i don't like the personality, but he is not really going to do all those things that he says i think it is worth reminding people, that's why kamala harris is campaigning with republicans. the people within his own administration, this extraordinary number of people from the trump administration who have come out and said that he would be a threat to america's freedoms. >> let's bring in national co-chair for the harris/walz campaign, mitch landrieu. he served as a senior white house adviser to president biden, and he is traveling with bill clinton and tim walz. mitch, where do we begin? >> good morning. >> this election -- >> well, that's a good place. >> yeah. this election, kamala harris seems to be making the case that

this election is about something sacred and about our safety and about our freedom. unfortunately, some policy debates and, you know, some positions and opinions are not for today. i mean, it's unfortunate. nobody wants that. nobody wants that more than "morning joe," which was supposed to be and was created as sort of an island of civility in a sea of shrill voices, where both sides could hash out issues they disagree on. yet, this campaign seems to be about something else. am i right? if so, can you explain? >> of course. thank you so much for that. of course, in an america where we all come to the table of democracy as equals and we all respect each other, we can and should have vigorous debates about policy.

what should the tax code look like? you know, do you favor trickle down economics, or do you favor building it from the bottom up and the middle out? the contrast couldn't be starker between the two campaigns. however, there is something much more important at stake right now, and that's democracy itself. the ability of us as americans to actually enjoy the freedoms that the constitution bestows upon us. the thing that has not changed since donald trump came down the elevator, though he's gotten much better at being bad, is that donald trump is unfit for the presidency. now, if you don't believe in democrats, you don't believe the mainstream media, you don't believe fox, that's okay. donald trump himself picked people to work for him at the highest reaches who know more about our national security than anybody. when you have a general milley or you have a general mattis or you have a mark esper or you have a john kelly, these are all men that donald trump picked. he picked them. people now telling us to please be careful because donald trump is actually using power to help

himself and to hurt his enemies and is unfit, besides the fact he seems a little out of whack the last couple of months, as you can tell. that is a red flag that the people of america should pay attention to. now, i am a political opponent of donald trump, so i'll take very seriously, and i take literally his threats to hurt his political enemies because i stand against him, as does president clinton. as does, evidently by the polls, half of america. when you use power to hurt other people and hate on other people, the presidency, which is the most powerful position in the world, controlling the militaries and the arsenals of the world, pay attention to the people. the people who know him best like him least. that, to me, ends discussions about everything else. even though, if you want to have a policy debate about whether we're better or not, i'm happy to have that. i think we win that argument, as well. donald trump is unfit for the presidency, he has been, and he is just going to be a whole lot better at being a whole lot worse should he rush to the oval office.

it is a very dangerous thing for america and for the world. >> you know, high-ranking general who worked for him, who served this country, and has confronted the deepest dangers that our country faces, calls him fascist to the core and the greatest danger for america. i -- you know, it's -- >> that's true, he did that say, but he is not by himself. i think the number is somewhere between 25 and 40 people that operated at the highest levels with donald trump, who put them in, who were close to him, observed him every day in difficult situations, behind closed doors when it really matters, you know, with important, critical measures relating to national security, have said he is dangerous. donald trump said he is coming after people like me, president clinton, and those who oppose his crazy idea. that's not an america you should want to live in.

whether or not you agree with him philosophically. >> i'd love to hear what the pitch is to republicans who may be a little bit uncomfortable with what they're seeing with donald trump. but just can't imagine voting for kamala harris. i understand this. you know, you disagree with her. maybe some republicans disagree with everything that she's about. >> well -- >> how does the campaign make space for them? she's made a commitment to the border bill that trump killed. will she follow through with that? and what are some other ways that republicans can feel comfortable perhaps going with their instincts that there's something wrong with donald trump and perhaps, this time, they do something highly unusual? >> well, first of all, the republican party of ronald reagan, george bush, is, for the most part, gone.

it is transformed into something that doesn't represent the views of mainstream republicans or independents. all those voters that have demonstrated they agree with what i said by voting for nikki haley, even when donald trump was the nominee. there's a large portion of people who are still registered as republicans, who just don't believe in the kinds of things that donald trump is talking about because that's not their values. they just don't believe in that. we're talking to them. i mean, we are the campaign. kamala harris is the campaign of big shoulders. donald trump is -- >> okay. >> you say, listen, you guys, if you want to save democracy, which is critical to all of us, it gives those of us who are republicans, independents, and democrats a way to have those policy debates that are really critically important, where people are thinking deeply and thinking hard about stuff, then you have to be for her. he is going to shut that down. >> right. >> just like he shut down the republican -- >> mitch, she's talked about -- >> there are hundreds of

respects -- i'm sorry. >> i know that she was on stage with. >> correct. >> in pennsylvania. i want to see how she speaks to more, though. like, will she put republicans in her cabinet? or could you articulate a scenario in which electing kamala harris makes a space for a legitimate, real republican party to reinvent itself? is it open to opposing ideas based on facts that perhaps makes a space for the party to rebuild itself after getting rid of the poison of donald trump? is there a scenario where that could happen in a harris presidency? >> yeah, the answer to that is absolutely. and she's said that. she's already said she will put a republican in the cabinet.

when you have a campaign with bernie sanders, liz cheney, and dick cheney on the same side, you know we've helped create that space. there are 100 republicans on stage with her. of course, the lieutenant governor from georgia has talked a lot about this. i've talked to a lot of my republican friends. i'm from louisiana, from a red state. i was a lieutenant governor of this state. there are ways of reaching across the aisle for that particular reason. the vice president herself said, look, i'm the kind of person that entertains comments from people all across the political spectrum, so we can figure out a pathway forward. her view is that we're better together. when we're arguing, when we're sharing, when we're trying to come up with an answer, opposed to not solving a problem for political purposes, like donald trump did with the border bill, you know, so he could gain power. the idea is, what are you going to do with the power you have? are you going to lift people up, push them down? are you going to bring us together or separate us? are you going to include everybody or isolate people because of what they look like? which one of those ways of going forward produces a stronger and

better america? kamala harris' pathway is clear, and she has invited people who identify as republicans and independents to please be part of how we create a new way forward. that is her entire vision, and it's the one that americas share. that's why i think she's going to win the race. >> national co-chair for the harris/walz campaign, mitch landrieu, thank you very much for coming on. >> great to be with you this morning. >> great to be with you, too, mitch. thank you. donny, i know mitch's audience was breaking up a little bit. she's committed to putting a republican in her cabinet. you know, for republicans who are feeling so uncomfortable about kamala harris, yet they're looking at donald trump and aren't even seeing the guy they might have voted for, you know, back in the day, 2016, what's the permission structure? i would think that they would not want to feel like this is a bait and switch, that there is a way for the republican party to

come back without donald trump. this isn't a republican party right now. >> no. >> they know it. so there are those who are like, wow, this isn't the party i recognize. but what's the permission structure? are you hearing it from any of your republican friends in the business community? what can be created for a vote for kamala harris at a time like this? >> you know, as we all talk to a lot of people who vote for trump, and i say to them, i still can't figure out, do they not believe it or do they not care? do they not understand that our freedom is on the line? do they not get that? or do they just not care? do they take freedom for granted at this point? you know, when you hear -- >> i think so, yeah. >> -- a mark milley, served his country, chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, great man, who has been in the room with him literally says, he is a fascist to the core. he is a danger to america. do they think he is making that

up? do they just so care about their 3% tax cut? what is it? i challenge people, and i say, you do understand that he will turn on this country and will turn us into hungary. do you not understand the freedom -- >> already has. >> -- that started with roe v. wade. it'll continue. it'll continue by putting his enemies in jail. having unfree media. rev, are you worried going forward that you're on a list if donald trump is elected, yes or no? >> i'm convinced i'll be on the list. >> i am, too. >> i don't know how we are not going to be. >> think about that. this is america. this is the united states of america. people in the media, like the rev, have to be concerned that they may be on a list? i have people saying to merckx donny, are you worried? this is america, yet people will still give permission to vote for donald trump. what's wrong with us?

>> rev, now we know you're on the list, you obviously have to keep yourself off the list and do your part. i know you've been working really hard for the harris campaign on behalf of democrats across the way. donny is basically addressing republicans. the question mika asked was, what is the permission structure for republicans? the other group that we see harris targeting right now are black voters. we saw a lot of her media strategy has been about that over the course of the last week. how do you think she is doing on that, and how concerned are you still, to the extent you are concerned, particularly about young black men, but more broadly, base turnout of african americans in the battleground states? >> i think we are going to see a turnout that will be way above and beyond what has been predicted. you know, i've done non-partisan tours in ohio, now pennsylvania, going to georgia for the interview with her, and wherever i go, there's been enthusiasm for kamala harris.

i think it reminds me not too long ago when i heard people in 2012 saying blacks are turning on barack obama. they ended up voting hugely for barack obama. the same rhetoric. he black enough? the same kind of questions on some of what happened in the first term. so i've heard this before. i've seen people come vote. people representing trump in the black community are mostly people who have no influence on voters and have no way of pulling in young voters. i think people are, in many ways, deceiving themselves about their weighing the black votes. they're talking to each other and not talking to people in the community. >> we see in the polling, though. >> all right. >> i'm curious about whether -- >> according to whose poll. >> you're not worried about those numbers? >> i am concerned but not worried.

>> okay. >> i think at the end, from what i'm seeing -- and, again, i've gone out nonpartisan, but i think she'll be fine. >> okay. >> we'll return to this. now to the death of hamas leader yahya sinwar. yesterday, israeli defense forces posted this on social media, announcing they've eliminated the head of the terrorist organization. israeli troops found sinwar by chance in southern gaza on wednesday, ending a year-long search for the man believed to be the architect of the october 7th attack. officials say troops were patrolling an area of rafah when they noticed three terrorists fleeing. the two sides then engaged in gunfire, and all three militants were killed. it was only then that israeli forces suspected one of those terrorists might be yahya sinwar. the idf later ran dna tests to confirm his identity. joining us now, state department

spokesman matt miller. thanks for coming on the show. talk about the significance of this latest development, but now the implications in front of us. the hostages, also potential retaliation. what is the united states and israel preparing for? >> well, good morning, mika. first of all, thanks for having me. the death of yahya sinwar is a hugely significant moment for the region, for the world. this is someone who is a brutal, vicious terrorist who had the blood of americans on his hands, who had the blood of israelis, who had the blood of more than 30 -- the citizens of 30 countries around the world on his hands. it was his decision to unleash this war on october 7th that now has cost the lives of over 40,000 palestinians. in the past few months, he has been the chief obstacle to ending that war and alleviating the suffering of those palestinians, to getting the hostages home, to providing real security for israel and for the palestinian people alike.

if you go back to the cease-fire proposal that president biden laid out at the end of may, obviously, you saw after that a series of negotiations. you saw the united nations security council endorse it. what happened over the past few weeks, a little over a month, is that hamas, under sinwar's leadership, just walked away from the bargaining table and refused to negotiate at all. we see this now as an opportunity with him being eliminated, with him being gone, as the chance to push forward to try to get an agreement to end this war, to try to get an agreement to finally get those 101 hostages who still remain in gaza home to their families. and to try to finally push for real, lasting security for the israeli and palestinian people alike. that's what we're going to be pushing for with urgency in the days ahead. >> matt, i understand that you see this as an opportunity and perhaps even for some sort of longer-term negotiations over who might be in charge of security of gaza. just in the short term, in the next kind of few days, is there also some concern at the state department that this might be a

moment of peril, particularly for the hostages, if sinwar is now dead and we don't know who is running things in hamas and who negotiations would take place with, to have some kind of hostage exchange? >> look, we are always concerned about a danger presented to the hostages. we've been incredibly concerned about that since october 7th. if you look back at what happened then, hamas under sinwar's leadership took more than 250 hostages, little boys and girls, children, the elderly. there are 101 who are remaining, including seven americans who still remain held hostage in gaza. we are always worried about their safety and security, which is why we're working to try to end the war and bring them home. what we're going to be doing in the next few days, so after sinwar's death was announced yesterday, secretary blinken got on the phone immediately with the prime minister of qatar, who has been one of the chief intermediaries in negotiating an end to this war, negotiating a

cease-fire agreement. he was on the phone with the foreign minister of saudi arabia. president biden announced a return to the region to push for getting the hostages home. we believe the best way to secure the hostages is an agreement to end the war and which brings them home safe to their loved ones. >> matt, we heard from president biden and vice president harris in the aftermath of sinwar's death, both making it very clear that now is the time for this war to end. now is the time for a cease-fire deal. now is the time to bring the hostages home. however, prime minister netanyahu of israel last night did not suggest that the conflict would end any time soon. in fact, said it would continue. how confident are you right now, the state department of the united states, that prime minister netanyahu wants to make this deal? >> look, that's a conversation we're going to have with him directly. the president spoke to him yesterday. as i said, secretary blinken will be returning to the region next week, and this will be a conversation we expect to have directly with prime minister

netanyahu. israel achieved an incredibly important strategic objective yesterday. the elimination of yahya sinwar was an important objective. number one, to bring him to justice for the blood he had on his hands. not just on october 7th but in the months after. in the years leading up to october 7th. they have other objectives to accomplish, and one is returning the hostages. ultimately, the most important objective for israel should be lasting security for the people of israel. it is our belief that an endless conflict in gaza, which is what you'll have if you don't have an agreement for a political path forward for the palestinian people, if you don't have an agreement for reconstruction in gaza, a plan to allow the people of gaza to rebuild their lives, you're never going to have lasting security for the people of israel, as well. the conversation we expect to have with them in the coming days is the best way to move that forward. as you know, and i think you eluded to it in your question, we had some tough decisions that

we were putting to prime minister netanyahu over the course of these cease-fire negotiations. he was going to have to make tough decisions to find an end to this war, to bring the hostages home. that process kind of got short circuited when sinwar walked away from the bargaining table. we see this as an opportunity in the days ahead to try to get back to an agreement, a way to end the war. we're going to be talking with prime minister netanyahu about the best way to do that. >> state department spokesman matt miller, thank you very much for updating us. we appreciate it. let's bring in now nbc news chief international correspondent keir simmons, live from dubai. keir, where do you see things going next? including any response from iran? >> reporter: mika, we have had a response from hamas, actually. that's the news this morning. the first response. i will just say, listening to matt miller there, talking to arab diplomats in the region who are involved in those negotiations, they don't describe it quite the way he

does, that hamas walked away in the past few weeks from negotiations. they will talk about challenges on both sides from the israelis and from hamas in trying to reach a position where there could be a cease-fire, where the hostages could be released. clearly, we're not in the room for the negotiations, so that is just reflecting what some of the arab diplomats here who describe themselves as mediators will say about what the past few months have been like. to answer your question in terms of the news we have this morning, it does go to, again, this question of whether the biden administration is going to be able to use this as a pivot point. we have now heard from hamas, a political official for hamas in qatar, based in qatar, saying, in response, he says, to israel suggesting the death of yahya sinwar will be the turning point, the beginning of the end for hamas, he says the group

cannot be eliminated. he says, yes, it is very painful and distressing, he told nbc news, to lose beloved people, especially extraordinary leaders like ours, but what we are sure of is that we eventually will be victorious. this is the outcome for all people who fought for their liberty. now, i should say, we just got that statement from hamas in the past few hours. what is this, you know, 24 hours since israel began to say it believed it killed yahya sinwar. 48 hours since he died. i think that is actually an insight into the disarray, how much this is going to have thrown hamas, put them on the back foot. someone like yahya sinwar has been killed. clearly, this is a victory for israel, but i think at the same time, we have to be cautious about what is likely to happen in the coming days and weeks and months as a result of this

killing. >> nbc's keir simmons, thank you very much for that update. jonathan lemire. joining us now on this conversation, editor in chief of the jewish news outlet, the ford, and former "new york times" bureau chief, jodi, thank you so much for being here this morning. simply, sinwar, the mastermind of october 7th, finally brought to justice. what does this moment mean for israel and the path forward? >> i mean, it really depends on what prime minister netanyahu decides to do. it is clear that sinwar was an obstacle to a deer by saying hamas needed to stay in power, but netanyahu has been an obstacle to a deal by saying the idf needed to stay in gaza. it is now time for the prime minister to declare victory. they said their goals were to dismantle or destroy hamas. they have dismantled and destroyed the command, control, operation of hamas, that killed not only sinwar but also, remember, deif and haniyah, the

political leader of hamas, as well as nasrallah, the leader of hezbollah in lebanon. nobody could have imagined a year ago that all four of those men would be eliminated. the twin goals of this war have supposedly been all along, destroy or dismantle hamas and get the hostages home. the focus now needs to be on getting the release of the hostages and moving to the next phase of what will happen next with gaza and what will happen next with the israeli/palestinian conflict writ large. israel cannot afford to be in a forever war, a forever hot war in gaza like they've been. look at what's happened around it. the level of destruction is insane. the world tolerance for it is over. we heard biden, blinken, harris yesterday say this is an opportunity to end the war. we heard netanyahu say this is the beginning of the end of the war. he needs to move to, this is an opportunity to end the war by releasing the hostages and moving to the next phase. >> certainly to