kamala combines passion. she cares deeply about people. she cares deeply about the issues with a real sense of connecting. you have on one side somebody

who really just cares about himself. everything is about him. 2:00 a.m. tweets and tirades. and kamala is somebody who come from modest beginnings, who had to fight for what she had. that's the kind of person i would want to vote for. when push comes to shove, she'll be fighting for me. that's the kind of president we need. >> it is 5:00 here in washington, d.c. i'm in for nicole wallace. there's no politician quite like barack obama. no one who can deliver a message like he can, who can get under donald trump's skin in the same way. pulls as high favorability ratings in the democratic party like he does, which is exactly why in the race's 18 days, obama will be out crisscrossing the country to rally voters in battleground states for kamala harris. obama's event in pittsburgh last week garnered a lot of excitement. people signed up for nearly

1,000 volunteer shifts following his remarks. already there are long lines for his campaign event in tucson, arizona. tomorrow he'll be in las vegas and next week he'll be in michigan and wisconsin. but the big event will be next thursday where president obama will campaign alongside vice president harris. tell two together for the first time in this race in a state that went blue in 2020 after going red for nearly 30 years. and that is georgia. enthusiasm in georgia is through the roof. early voting number have already broken records with over 1 million ballots cast. the polls still show an extremely tight race between harris and trump. barack, not the only obama hitting the campaign trail in the coming days. vice president harris will campaign with former first lady michelle obama a week from saturday in another critical state, michigan, in the first day of early voting there. a source telling nbc news, there is a source among some party insiders that deploying michelle

obama might be most effective at the very end according to a person familiar with the dynamic. that person said you have to pick the moment when it can move the needle the most. and that hasn't happened yet. it could make a real difference in some key states. this afternoon my colleague peter alexander spoke with vice president harris while she is out campaigning in michigan. the stakes of this race and her approach to the last two plus weeks. take a listen. >> in these days, i want to ask you first. in the convention you were cast as a joyful warrior. recently you've attacked president trump as an unstable and unhinged. >> and unfit. >> is that an effective closing argument? >> i think one is not to the exclusion of the other. i have a great deal of optimism, as do the people who are here about the future of our country. i think that's one of the things that are building the momentum that we have. people really do believe in what is the promise of america and

our responsibility to fight for it. that is not in conflict with being clear-eyed about the danger that donald trump poses, based on the language that he has used and his admiration for dictators, his inability to really focus on the needs of the american people, particularly the working people. these things are not in conflict. they exist at the same time. >> the critics say is joy is gone. you respond? >> i'm having a great time. >> let me ask you if i can about the one of the challenges. polls show there is a widening gender gap. that donald trump leads particularly among men by 16 points right now. why is that? why do you think there is a disconnect for with you men right now? >> well, let me tell you. you can look at this audience and you can see that there are people of every background and gender who are showing up by the thousands. and i think it is because they know i intend to be a president for all americans. that's how i am campaigning, to earn the vote of every american.

not only about their gender but their geographic location and unburdened by who they may have voted for in the past. i think this is a moment like we saw with republicans supporting me most publicly recently, it is a time to put country before party and with a sense of optimism, fight for what we care about. >> just to be clear, men still say by a 16% margin, they're supporting donald trump. why do you think that is? >> that's not my experience. look around. >> president biden this week said every president has to cut their own path. what is one policy that you would have done differently over the last three and a half years than president biden? >> to be very candid with you, even including mike pence, vice presidents are not critical of their presidents. i think that really, in terms of the tradition of it and also just going forward, it does not make for a productive and important relationship. >> he's given you a green light

to carve your own path. >> going forward, floss question. i bring my own experience and my own life experiences. >> is there a policy that stands out to you in particular? >> sure. my approach to what we need to do around medicare, covering home health care. borne out of my experience taking care of my mother. my priority on housing. one, because i know what it means, affordable housing and the ability to buy a home. again, my own experience. my mother saved up until i was a teenager. but for so many young people who i spoke with around our country, the american dream is really out of reach. so my policy about $25,000 down payment assistance to help them get their foot in the door. the work that i have been doing around emphasizing small businesses is being part of the real backbone of the american economy, throws the experiences and the ideas that i have that are about moving forward and really, being part of next

generation of leadership in america. >> last thing. we heard some people chanting happy birthday to you. chivalry is not dead. i won't say what age you're turning. you're talking about generational change. what does it mean to you? >> i think it is about a state of mind. and it is about understanding that we should be focused on this moment. this is a very particular moment where there is a lot happening in our country that is about innovation and really new approaches to longstanding challenges. and it's a new generation of thinking as much as anything else. >> this hour, we are expecting to see the vice president at a campaign event at a uaw union hall in lansing, michigan. that is where we start this hour. joining me at the table, my friends, msnbc political analyst juanita tolliver is here, and professor of politics and journalism at morgan state university, msnbc contributor, jason johnson. with us, political strategist and msnbc senior analyst matt

dowd is here, though not at the table with me, which i would truly, truly enjoy. one day we will make that happen. talk to me about the balance here that the vice president is trying to strike. she does need to sharpen the contrast with the ex-president. that's a rather dark comment. title, she launched this campaign saying we want this to be about joy. joy is difficult to sustain as a strategy over a period of time, right? joy is something you want at the end. it is the crescendo. how do you do that in the next two and a half weeks? >> yesterday was a perfect example. she had the anti-abortion hecklers in the crowd saying something to her from the floor of the venue. she said, i think you're at the wrong rally and cracked a joke about trump's smaller rallies. that hit all the things you mentioned on the head. contrast to trump what he prioritizes. rally sizes instead of policy.

she had fun in that moment and that translated. the crowd picked up on it immediately. the other thing she has to do in the coming days, shore up her base. that's where you emphasize the obamas hitting the campaign trail with her will come into play. when you have barack obama and a woman with the energy of do something like michelle obama out there, that is a force that will be driving, especially when we talk about black and brown and younger voters. especially black women voters who have been the core of the party. >> i recognize that you spend more time, dr. johnson, with young people than i do, by virtue of being at a college. it's sort of the same thing. i have to be reminded sometimes, there is a generation of people who the only president they have been mindful of during their consumption is donald trump. this may be all that you have known but this isn't actually

what presidential leadership has historically been. in some ways, having barack obama out there on the trail underscores that generational shift. >> it does. i also think it is important, a 30-year-old is not a kid. if you're 30, you didn't vote for barack obama. you weren't old enough to vote for barack obama and you can be 30, 31 years old. i think the obamas are out there to bring in gen x, to bring in millennials. the reason for this, they don't have their person. aoc has become very much part of their system. the harris campaign has to do a really good job of speaking to young people directly. i don't know that they have done that. that's one of the things that has been a criticism of the campaign. i think the obamas hit a much older crowd. if i talk to my students, 21, 22 years old, they know who barack obama is, there's a picture of him, but there's not someone who motivates them like, let's say, a younger politician.

somebody else probably moves them a bit more than barack obama. >> i know the exact picture of the obamas that you are referencing. >> i have no idea what you're talking about. >> we'll send you the photo later. >> it's a christmas photo. everyone has it. >> there is a question of masculinity that has woven through this race just in the last few weeks. donald trump calling white men who are voting for harris, certainly not a way to appeal to people. it must be a way to shame them. if we're talking about her closing argument about sharpening the contrast and leaning into the joy, his is basically threatening and bullying? is that right? >> yeah. this is such a time of like, there is such a cultural definitional moment about what does it mean to be masculine in there. and donald trump and the maga world, as everybody on this

panel has watched them on social media and watched donald trump, defines it in a way that is actually in my view, abusive. their definition of masculinity is masculinity that is abusive and mean. what i think the vice president does, and most of us who believe ourselves to be strong men, we define masculinity in a much more compassionate, loving, supportive way. for myself, for myself, i think the strongest men are the ones that allow women, or give that space for women to make their own decisions for themselves. donald trump and the maga world does not want that. they want a world where women no longer make decisions for themselves. we see it in the dobbs decision, in any number of things they've done in this. i do think, for all the things we've talked about politically and where we are in this moment in time, we are in a moment in time where culturally, are we going to take a turn and go to, have a definition of masculinity that is much more broad? or are we going to have a

closed-minded masculinity that leads to abuse and meanness? >> i think we're all very aware that we follow this with a degree of intensity that would be absurd to expect of other folks, right? folks aren't sitting around talking about the al smith dinner, right? that's not moving the needle. so what it all becomes is a bigger picture and a bigger composite, right? she, for example, can release a detailed policy memo reaching out to a specific community but it fundamentally becomes, she's making an effort with this community. particularly of black men, given that's the policy she most recently rolled out. what more is there to do when you are 18 days away? we keep saying weeks. you said days, oh, it's days! >> i feel like it comes down to mobilization at this point. this is the get out the vote effort that let's be real.

barack obama perfected in '08 and 2012 that really galvanized people and got them to the polls. i think the scenario we're living in now is the reality that election day is the last day to vote. and people are leveraging tools. when you put up the numbers about georgia hitting 1 million early votes, north carolina breaking records, and all the states really turning out people early, that is the only thing that makes me feel hopeful in this moment. once those people vote, that's when you'll get the message from democrats. call your friends. mobilize communities. sign up for the volunteer shifts. that's what it will come down to. i fully expect every engagement from democrats to be a call to action. >> can i ask you, the political scientist, to help me rationalize something? there are folks who are upset because they see the polling averages and they feel the sort of doom around, well, maybe he's pulling ahead in this poll, just

isn't helpful in general. at the same time, you have the harris campaign very clear that they believe they are the underdogs in this race and wanting to be sure that they don't lose the attention and the momentum of their voters. when people go and have to stand in line, sometimes for two, three hours, that they say, i am standing in this line because i have been convinced that this race will come down to my vote and her vote and his vote. which one is it? >> it's both. it depends on where you are. and i think you make an excellent point when you talk about how we do this versus regular people. i won't say my friend's name. but i literally got a text message from my friend on wednesday, an atlanta voter. he said i didn't know cornell west was running for president. and he's early voting. it tells you, democrats are worried about, oh, there are people who don't even know that who are galvanized to go out and vote. so to say we are nervous.

you don't know what bits of information are creeping through their heads. i suspect the early voter in michigan, the person standing in line in michigan, in wisconsin, probably has a different concern than somebody in georgia, somebody in texas. when you have been convinced when you're in a swing state. i used to live in ohio. i got so many phone calls from hillary clinton and barack obama, i thought we were neighbors all the time. i know ohio was important. now it no longer is. that's what is happening in different places now. the people who matter, they know they're in a place that matters. arizona, michigan, georgia, and in the harris campaign, they don't want anyone resting on their laurels. they don't want to make the mistake of hillary clinton. >> i want to ask but the record numbers in georgia, north carolina too. the state broke record turnout for its first day of early voting. what does that tell you? >> i'm going to pick up what was just talked about, to paraphrase

e-ecclesiastes in the song, turn, turn, turn. everything has a season. a season of motivation. we're in the season of motivation. the early vote is a defining part of that. right now we have states that already 20, 25% of the votes have been cast and we're still 18 days until the election ends. not election day. so i think the benefit that as you watch the early voting, nobody knows. you can't determine exactly who is voting for whom but you can determine partisanship. you can determine demographics. right now, the vice president is banking more votes 18 days out than donald trump is. that's a much better position to be banking votes because there's more, there's a higher degree of democrats voting in the key states like michigan and georgia and pennsylvania than republicans at this point. but i think that the anxiety that democrats feel is obviously

left over from ptsd of hillary clinton. i think the best posture in a race is you move forward in the final 18 days is to say we are going to win this race. everything there is for us to win this race. if we put the work in. because i think that the candidate is best positioned, and we looked at poll in 2004 when i was involved with bush. you want voters to believe you are going to win. not that voters believe donald trump will win. so anxiety is good but only to a point. you have to believe your candidate is going to win if the work is done. >> no one is going anywhere. when we return, how the harris campaign is using the january 6th insurrection to shore up the standing among latino voters. also ahead, donald trump back in detroit. the city he, you know, trashed the last time he was there just days ago. and the dangerous disinformation straight out of the kremlin now being repeated by the

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. what happened during january 6th and the fact that, you know, you waited so long to take action while your supporters were attacking the capitol, people so close to you and your administration no longer want to support you. why i would want to support you? if you were to answer these questions for me, i would really appreciate it and give you the opportunity. your own vice president doesn't want to support you now. >> i said peacefully and patriotally, nothing done wrong

at all. and action was taken, strong action. ashley babbitt was killed. there were no guns down there. we didn't have guns. the others had guns. >> donald trump soes answer at this week's town hall. the audience to be as stunned as all of us watching at home as a disgraced ex-president said that he viewed himself on the opposite side of capitol police officers during the january 6th insurrection. his embrace the violent mob who ended america's tradition of a peaceful transfer of power is a brand-new add featuring capitol police officer, one of those capitol police officers trump referenced as being on the opposing side. it is airing here first. >> i donald john trump do solemnly swear -- that i will

preserve, protect and defend -- the constitution of the united states. so help me god. >> i took an oath. too. when i join the u.s. army and when i became a capitol police officer. guided by that, i served in combat in iraq to protect our nation. then again, on the steps of the capitol, i defended our democracy. donald trump sent the attackers that day. >> we're going to walk down to the capitol -- >> an out of control president trying to steal an election he lost by millions of votes. i fought and nearly died that day supporting and defending the constitution of the united states. and i would do it again because that's the oath that i took. so help me god. >> again, we are waiting for vice president harris at a union hall in lansing, michigan. joining our conversation, kevin, you will understand better than

anyone if i have to dip out of our conversation to take your boss so we can all listen to what she has to say. i have to know what you thought, what went through your mind and the campaign's mind when the ex-president answer ad question from a former republican who was looking for a reason to come back to the party the way that donald trump did. >> well, thank you so much for having me. look, you saw the faces in that crowd. it's not just the faces. we heard from him in an interview after that town hall. and he said, he's not going to vote for donald trump. and what we saw in our polling, what we continue to see every single day across so many voting blocs of these undecideds. january 6th is a bridge too far. it is disqualified. when we talk more about this issue, and we talked about another point, that that really brave former republican voter talked about. the people that know donald trump the best do not trust him. they are supporting the vice president and they know that the commander in chief role is far too big for a man as unhinged

and dangerous as donald trump. >> so help me understand the strategy. this ad specifically aimed at latino voters. what do you see in your focus group that tells you it will resonate? >> there's so much. latinos are the most highest serving in our nation's armed services. duty to this country, protecting this country is such a priority. we are patriotic members of this country. then you think about the fact that so many of our community have fled dictatorships. that know what somebody who uses the power of the presidency against the will of the people is just something that goes too far and we know that these latino voters that haven't made a decision yet, they are so tired of the chaos. they are tired of someone using the power of the presidency for their own political gain instead of doing real things that we have a real opportunity on, to lower costs, to invest in our small businesses, to really do those things that a president

should do. >> earlier this year, a press conference. i want to play some of that for our viewers. >> they told us they would separate me and my mom. that's when everything bad started to happen. i started crying because i thought we would never see each other again. they just gave us a temporary place to sleep, like blankets. then they told us to take a sure and put on some uniforms and then told us that we would be separated and then we started to cry. we didn't really know what was happening if we're going to see our mother again. >> i don't want this to happen to our kids. it is sad to see if it will happen again. >> my heart breaks for these children. i think there's not a person with a heart who can watch that and have not their heart break

for these children. as you know, there are voters who know this happened. who have not made a decision yet to not vote for donald trump. how do you take what he has already done, what he did in his first administration, and connect it to voters for the promises he has made should he come to power again? >> you're absolutely right. the stories are just heart-breaking. i was there on the ground with those kids. i got to meet them. i can't imagine these kids were 5, 6, they were 7 when they were ripped away from their mothers and their fathers just because donald trump said so. it did nothing to create safer communities and did nothing to protect our border. these stories helped this make this as personal as possible for latino voters that know how disqualifying this is. we are a nation of immigrants. part of the story we have to tell, we are doing on the ground every single day is making clear that while family separation was

so anti-american, so horrifying, donald trump will go further. think about what he's doing when he talks about mass deportations. militarizing our communities against legal immigrants in this country, and doing all this while also going after the issues we care most deeply about. our job as a campaign has to connect his dangerous ideas to ruining your every-single day things. the community where immigrants live and doing all that while kamala harris is fighting for you. >> here's jason johnson and juan , juanita. latinos care about many things. immigration isn't the only issue we care about. very interesting to see january 6th be put forward as an issue specifically to motivate those voters. also, when i hear the kids talking, that was animating for

latinos but also for white suburban moms. their message is targeted at audiences but there's also cross-pollination that's happening throughout. >> i've always felt the border is a quintessential example of cognitive dissonance. there are a lot of people who will see that and say oh, my gosh, that's sad, and they have a problem with policy. jeff sessions and steven miller specifically did this because they wanted to harm and attack people. what i find to be the most compelling is this connection between, i may have, and not every person. we're talking about a whole part of war. mexico was not the same as colombia which is not the same as el salvador. my parents came here, my uncle brought us here to get away from the kind of nonsense that donald trump is going to do. i was moved by that. i have friends, i have family members who are refugees. i have students who fled countries that had that kind of vi