before we go, reminder for you, you can join me this weekend on the saturday show and the sunday show both at 6:00 p.m. eastern. on sunday we'll react to the brand-new interview with vice president kamala harris after she joins the reverend al sharpton on politics nation at 5:00 p.m. eastern. that's all here on msnbc. that is tonight's last word. the 11th hour with stephanie ruhle starts now. >> there are 18 days left for kamala harris and donald trump to rally voters. >> you better remember i'm here and she's not i could have done that too. >> thou shalt not bear false witness to the neighbor, >> especially led eber's election results.

>> peaceful transfer of power? >> we had a peaceful transfer of power. >> the american people are exhausted with his gaslighting. exhausted. >> critics say her tariffs will end up being like a national sales tax. >> he thinks china pays for them, this is the same guy he also thought mexico would pay for the wall >> i think the bigger problem is the enemy from within. >> donald trump is running a straightforwardly fascist campaign. >> watch his rallies, he's confused, he's a near 80-year- old man. he's ranting. >> she has done a lot more to take questions than he has recently. >> you wouldn't say that about the american people. >> enough. we are ready to turn the page.

good evening once again and welcome to the nightcap. i am stephanie ruhle, and we are just 18 days away from the election, and the race for the white house seems to be in a dead heat. in these final days both, harris and donald trump are racing around the country especially in battleground states looking to fire up supporters and win over those still seriously undecided voters, but that doesn't mean you're taking the same approach. kamala harris held rallies and sat down on interviews from fox news to charlemagne tha god. trump attended a town hall packed with supporters. let's not forget another one that turned into a 39-minute dance party to his playlist that ended with the song memory from the 1980s musical, cats. let's bring our nightcap crew, philip, nancy, paul, and

samantha, her debut appearance on the nightcap. all right. welcome to you all. i want to start with the week. this media blitz kamala harris has been on every week has a new theme. she had a cuddly week, then a week where she was focused on women when she spoke on "call her daddy to" and then her interview with charlemagne tha god. you can no longer say she is avoiding the media. >> if you are a black woman voter in america you are 98% likely to vote for democrats, but the same can't be said for black men. you saw this push week ago when former president obama asked black men to vote for kamala, and you've seen it really

considered this week with her media strategy. she's going on shows like the shade room, she is really appealing to blackmail voters. on the howard stern show she mentioned she's a lewis hamilton fan. so there is the media blitz, but there's also opportunity agenda for lack men which i agree with you, it is a weekly drive. i'm interested to see next week's drive. >> she's good at this, she is like a multisport athlete. she can go into different places and do well in can trap in contrast to donald trump's weird dance off. he's volatile, unstable, weak, a threat to national security. now she's focusing on men, and i think that's where she needs to stay, because she is

struggling with non-college- educated white men, and in places like pennsylvania, she has the two-pronged strategy to turn out voters, but she needs to shave away some moderates and moderate republicans. >> where do you think this is coming from? >> i don't know, and i cringe when i hear those things. lack of voters male and female are not monolithic first of all. i think what she is doing which is so smart she's not only reaching out to men, i think howard stern, charlemagne the god-- >> and charlemagne tha god was hugely critical of president biden-- >> it was not a softball interview , but she did a great interview with union members, and so i love the fact she is dipping in all over the place. >> she put her head in the mouth of the lion and went on

fox news. your take? and how did fox news speak about after? before the interview the entire narrative all day every day was that she was only doing softball interviews, easy interviews, she was never stepping up to the plate, she stepped up to the plate, how is it taking over on their field? >> you know fox news is obviously a right-wing media organization, so yeah, hate to spoil it, but she goes in there, and we've seen them do this before. she sits down for the interview with brett baier, he had a fairly contentious interview with trump in 2023 i think is worth noting. but, when you go on fox instantaneously is followed by laura ingram, sean hannity, what they do is take little pieces of the interview and just jump on it and spend the entire hour, they invite guests in and say here's why this was terrible. so you get this half-hour

interview in which, harris is trying to talk to these voters who might be watching fox news who may be like i don't love trump, and i don't know how i feel about harris and people to whom she is trying to appeal-- was cheney likes me, like republican outrage, right? do that for half an hour, and you have three hours of the worst, most obnoxious and false- - >> sorry-- >> crusher no matter what. >> 100%. >> think about the woman who watches fox news. she's watching kamala harris and said donald trump said kamala harris is stupid. she's not so stupid. so there are a portion of those voters out there, those fox news voters who might not like letters' policies, but they're going to watch that interview and start to think.

>> also got to say i was amazed that they are actually addressed her as madame vice president. he was so hostile compared to where he was when he interviewed trump. he was like very respectful, and he interrupted her 38 times. i was surprised that he did, because he was so disrespectful otherwise. he interrupted her 38 times in 27 minutes. for women that might be watching they're going to be like you know, i know what that's like. i know what it's like to be silenced and to be interrupted. i think that might go somewhere. >> is there hope maybe it is a fox news house and somebody who watches fox news that's never going to vote for trump, but there's other people tuning in and catching this whether it is a daughter or a son or somebody is going to the fox audience, the whole household not just the diehard fox news fan. >> what do you think this puts donald trump in a corner? however she was going to do,

win, lose, or draw, this puts donald trump in a corner, she's junior varsity, she can't do it, she's weak-- she put her head in the mouth of the lion while donald trump sat home or talked to his friends. doesn't this put pressure on him to do something to >> but he keeps canceling. >> he's exhausted. >> she is pressuring him with her advantage. she's calling him out, she's saying he's wimpy, he won't debate her. she continues to show she's tough, and she's got to show those persuadable voters, not everyone who watches fox news is stupid. a lot of folks are watching and saying she's not as bad as i thought. i don't like that guy, and he don't like her, but she is better than him. that's the contrast she has to continue to push. she just has to show she is less mad than him.

>> and appealing to everybody, not just going for her quote unquote base. she's putting herself out. >> donald trump doesn't have to do this, because he has run for president twice before. republicans and older voters tend to vote more consistently anyway. kamala harris is not in that position. all these things we are talking about, all these various things are trying to convince people that it's worth taking the time to go vote. if you can get some of those republicans, some of those generally risk it skeptical,-- i don't think it was terribly useful, because those people who watch it then watched so and so forth-- >> but all over the place right? and to anyone, we keep hearing she speaks a word salad, she gave nonanswers-- even if you don't like what her answers are she is actually answering the

questions. earlier this week when donald trump spoke at the economic club of chicago he was asked, repeatedly, do you think google should break up? is answer was about voter rolls in virginia. so you can tell me you don't like kamala harris-- >> what does it mean when kamala harris talks about holistic economy, you might not like her word choices, but she's actually answering the question. whether or not google breaks up has nothing to do with undocumented immigrants voting in virginia. expect the >> she just is reaching all kinds of people and showing that she is not a moron. and in the names he calls her, he's always talking about her lack of intelligence. stop it. >> i think people have been waiting for policy from her. a month ago, you noticed the questions were like i don't know what she stands for. she's doing a media blitz,

she's talking about reproductive rights, an agenda for black men. >> she's a democrat saying i will lower your taxes. the taxes, the toughness, tim walz, using him strategically, that's how you move independents. 51% is unaffiliated, and they want to hear taxes, the border, they want to hear national security, and they want to hear how you are going to make their life better. she is proving everyday she can handle it. >> when did you have an option to vote for an independent in a race? >> they consistently vote with one port-- >> they don't have an option. >> perhaps-- >> absolutely. what independent option do they have in this election?

>> well they have jill stein if you-- >> okay let's not-- [ inaudible ] >> there are not a lot of people who are actually sitting down undecided between these voters. it is not the case 50% of the country is looking at them like i'm not sure between kamala and trump read my point is there are not that many people who actually exist in this liminal space between the two parties. most independents consistently vote with one party. if you say it's because there aren't other options find, but they are still in that habit of doing that, they are in habit of voting for democrats and republicans-- it's not undecided voters are sitting back waiting to hear more permission on policies, these are the least engaged political actors, and the people who pay the least attention are not the ones drilling in the deepest on policy. >> hears my question. trump spoke at the catholic charity dinner that existed for 79 years. both candidates would show up, people from both parties, and

it's a big fancy new york dinner so you could easily make the argument she needs to be in battleground states, that she doesn't care. i would argue kamala harris' best night of her campaign was on the debate stage where she stood next to donald trump, so the argument she's weak and that, that one goes out the window. and that may have been her last opportunity to stand in a room shoulder to shoulder to him and yes it is a room of new yorkers who likely know who they are going to vote for, but those comments are all over the country today. do you think there's a missed opportunity that she could have shown america yet again, she's arguing right now that this guy has missed a step. worry about his 39-minute dance party. she's saying i want to see medical records, here's a chance to say here i am standing

tall, and his this guy snoozing over his diet coke. >> she's great when it is side- by-side like this, but more and more at her rallies she is showing video of him. it's not the same as standing in the room, but boy is there contrast with him slobbering and not making much sense or calling us, you know, enemies of the people-- enemy within, yes. those contrasts are there, but yes, you are right. a guy thrice married, wanted to take down the country, stuff like that. you're absolutely right. she shines when she's in the room she's a prosecutor, she knows how to handle that verbally. >> that debate is a different stage. that is new york elite and it

really doesn't have the same appeal. whether molly shannon whether that landed or not that's what i saw unsocial today. i wasn't seeing clips from-- that was the main clip i was seeing that was being shared. so-- back i was thinking of suspect that is so interesting, right? i was in the room last night like you we selected for a second. it's funny the take away was the algorithm. >> as an independent thing i was seeing both. i think the molly shannon thing was a dud. she's got the best comedy writers in the world than she would have shined. i don't think her best moment was the debate, i think it was the convention when she stood up and looked like the present. she was tough, strong, talked

about a robust military and lowering taxes. when she's not next to him he's completely out of the picture she can show future looks like where she is president, and she owns the stage, and she is the boss. >> i do want to make an ancillary point can we stop calling it a dance party? half the tracks were like opera. >> [ laughter ] >> of the maria ave maria and stuff. ymca. >> it was a swaying party. >> her seem next week is potentially man week. she may go on joe rogan. your thoughts? >> you know what? i think 26 tower people talk about white women handed trump that election. so is kamala going after white men? that's who listens to to joe rogan. i think they are unenthusiastic or that's it.

i think what i'm interested in the kamala world and call her daddy is part of that, joe rogan is part of that. can that campaign, the tiktok means, cannot turn into people going to the polls? >> i think the goal isn't necessarily to convince joe rogan listeners to vote for harris as it is to say she's vine, he's fine, voting's a hassle stay home. like that was funny and fine, but-- >> joe rogan gets a 20 times the average audience than this show. >> they had this ridiculous conversation about cocaine i left out for days but thought this is a disaster for trump.

it wasn't. that audience, it almost normalized it. i could hear young men being like he's a genius for that. i didn't know what a g was-- >> he shouldn't be in a bow tie, he should be in handcuffs. when you have him on stage and the content-- back to back to the joe rogan-- back 60% of young people are independent unaffiliated, they are registering to vote, and they are not picking up party commit many are voting for the first time, and they are taking it seriously, they consider themselves patriots, and joe rogan talks about jujitsu and the military, tough stuff, and he connects with a gut punch of america, and she needs more of that. >> doesn't it silence this? if she doesn't, donald trump fills the space trying to convince you of things she's not. so she stops that slow bleed of

lies at the. >> they will still say she's not doing enough. i agree she should do joe rogan. he may help connect her with the uninterested voters because still, hundreds of millions of people don't even vote. >> and he might endorse her. like he-- he is going to be more objective than people give him credit. i have been listening to joe rogan from the beginning. he may give her some praise, he might come out of this feeling better about her and giving his audience a better sense of her. >> he has turned on people right? for a long time donald trump thought he had joe rogan in his pocket. nobody's going anywhere. third-party candidates and the impact they could have in battleground states. that's why i was stopping these two from going at it. and remembering the trump residency. i want to know why some people

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with the race tied third- party candidates, especially battleground states could do the spoilers. our nightcap is still with us. this isn't one of those elections where we are talking much about third-party candidates. we don't think they are out

there, but they are. jill stein is still on the ballot in pennsylvania and michigan. should these candidates be worried about it? >> yes, because this may come down to a couple thousand people in michigan. if jill stein can capture a couple thousand in michigan, rfk jr. they could upset and determine the election. i've been covering this for three years now. think people have underestimated the impact of rfk not to even attract the independents. it might be enough to tip one or two swing states. that's the threat they present. most independents want an alternative should they are not real independents. stein's people overtly said their objective is to beat kamala harris. if you want to do that and

throw a wrench in the system, jill stein is here for you. but, most of all, they are the candidates, of people like putin, like trump, of disruption. >> i suppose it begs the question what do you do if you are kamala harris? >> exactly what she is doing. she is running ads against jill stein and calling them out. what i'm saying is if you are really independent don't waste your vote and fall for the trick. >> i would be focused more on the new voters coming out and figuring out if they are actually voting for the parties that they want to. right? i think one of the bright spots in the early voting numbers we will see newly registered voters. that's a beautiful bright spot. i don't necessarily share your same views. but i could be wrong. >> in michigan there is a large arab american voting base over 100,000 there voted uncommitted in the democratic primary.

they might not be voting for trump, but how concerned should vp harris be about this group? >> she should be concerned. in 2016 watching the reviews coming in-- >> [ laughter ] >> it's all theater. watching the exact number of votes needed to win certain states they went to jill stein, gary johnson-- and i had to ask like what is their end game? she wants to hurt kamala-- >> some of them want power, money, jill stein is a grifter. >> when you don't know what >> i think the question here about both campaigns, harris in particular can offset those votes is by making sure she has more voters coming out who she

knows will support her. miles sort of draw a graph in mid air, if you look at the percentage of people who turn out by age it sort of goes like this, you have a blip than it goes up like that. this end of the spectrum has been the democratic end. they are independents, but are liberals mostly, and they vote for democrats. and so that is where democrats had troubles getting those peoples out. this race has support for harris at the other end of the spectrum, but she still has a base of people who are less likely to turn out and vote. so yes they are doing these ads, but they need to ensure they are doing everything in their power to get everyone thinking of voting. >> are you saying yes we know the diehard maga fans are going to vote all day every day yesterday tomorrow, and they are going to go to a rally.

just because her base is not as fervent, >> i'm talking structurally. it is less the case that younger people vote than older people. they move all the time, so they have to reregister to vote, they forget doing so. there are all these factors-- and yes, they just don't-- back one of google searches for gen z is what do i wear to vote? if you know-- >> [ laughter ] >> thought she was about to say, because i just interviewed college students who are saying i can't figure out what the policies are-- i was saying they are interested, they just don't know the policies are. oh my god. >> there are a lot of new te,