but there it is. it is true. we do have some great organizations working today to- - you know, there are lawsuits all over the place. we have the national coalition against censorship, we have been america. even the authors guild was just party to a suit. we have so many librarians. and i hope we have you-- and i hope through all of this, yeah, people will become more aware, and more irate, and get busy standing up and speaking out. >> i am so grateful to both of you. jason, i am glad to have you back in the velshi banned book club, and congratulations on the new book . judy, we are so honored to have you in the velshi banned book club. jason reynolds , author of the newest books, including "twenty- four seconds from now" . judy blume, author of so many books, including "forever." there is more velshi banned book club where that came from.

you can scan the qr code on your screen and download the podcast whenever you get your podcasts. do not miss that. that does it for me. the katie filling show starts right now. right now. i'm katie phang, live from msnbc world headquarters in new york city. and here is the week that was. >> israel announced it had killed the mastermind of the october 7th hamas terror attacks. >> let me hear that music, please. >> everyone, let's think president trump. >> trump went on like that for more than 30 minutes. can you imagine if kamala harris just stopped taking questions in the middle of a rally and started doing whatever that is? >> i think there are serious problems in 2020. did donald trump lose the election? not by the words i would use. >> you can't be for the mob on january 6th and for the officers. you can't. it is not funny. you are a threat to democracy. when that mob came, senator cruz was hiding in his closet.

and that's okay. >> is the enemy from within. they are very dangerous. there marxists, communists, and fascists. >> this is a democracy. and in a democracy, the president of the united states, in the united states of america, should be willing to handle criticism without saying he would lock people up for doing it. we are just 17 days away from election day. and millions of americans have already cast their ballots, shattering turnout records. in north carolina, more than 350,000 people hit the polls, setting a new record for its first day of early voting, while georgia saw more than 1 million votes over the first four days of early voting. and don't sleep on the motor city. the people of detroit are pulling the lever as early voting opened their this

saturday morning. meanwhile, it is full speed ahead for the battling campaigns. with high profile surrogates stumping for the candidates. elon musk for donald trump, and former president barack obama speaking at a rally for vice president kamala harris. as the candidates themselves faced off in dueling rallies in michigan last night, following a media blitz of interviews this week. joining me now i have the honor of having natosha alford, senior vice president at thegrio and the other of american and negra. and christina greer, the author of black ethnics. listen, it is an all female guest lineup today for the katie phang show. you guys are getting it started. thanks for being here. i want to start with you, natosha. before we started the show, you are showing some info about your dad. 60 years old, and how he just told you that he is now ready

to vote for kamala harris. although he was previously undecided. i want to explore that a little bit more with you, because i think it's important. because there are still, remarkably, the number of voters remain undecided at this time. >> you know, my father fell into the camp of folks who said i have always voted democrat my whole life. and in the past four years he started to question well, i know they are saying a lot of legislation has been passed, but how does this affect me? there were a lot of questions. so i saw that. it was a communication gap between the things that are actually happening, the investments being made in the economy, this effort to create new jobs, but how that was getting passed along to the people on the ground. there was a gap there. so, my father initially said i need more information. i'm not voting for donald trump, but i need more information about her. and as he has watched her, in these past few weeks, seeing her unguarded, unscripted, really in command, able to take tough questions, he is all in on kamala harris now. and i think it's a fantastic case study. and it also challenges this narrative that black men can't be won over, that black men who

are undecided are just too misogynistic in order to be open-minded to a kamala harris. i think for some black men, for some men in general, that is true. but for someone like my father, it's about the information. it is about what are the tangible things you're going to do. and kamala harris has been doing the work. but the question of whether people have seen it during the biden administration, whether she was getting as much attention as she deserved, whether the questions we were asking about her warfare and insightful, whether people understood what a vice president does. which is just a general issue in terms of civics and understanding american government. those are all things that impacted what people knew about her. and now, i think she is actually being known. i think that's a good thing. >> yeah, christina, we were talking about this total misperception about the role of the vice president. and, to be frank, you did not hear these questions about dan quayle, you did not hear these questions about other white male vice presidents, including

joe biden. let's be honest. and so, why is it that this level of scrutiny has been revealed for kamala harris as she now runs for president of the united states? >> right, but we know that the goalpost always moves for women, and it definitely moves for women of color. it definitely moves for women of color. we have never had a non-white male vice president. so already the visuals are different for a lot of americans. it has been a very short runway for kamala harris at the president candidate. so, these policy questions, which she consistently answers -- as people keep saying, i don't know what she believes in, are you not listening? every speech, every interview she is giving you policy. there is also this not just an information gap, but a willingness to receive information, which many women of color, especially in positions of power, are used to saying things where people, for whatever reason, because of packaging, they can't digest it.

so she is doing more and more outlets. nontraditional media outlets to try to reach people where they are, as opposed to just having rallies where she is be bopping to the music in her head. we have seen donald trump, less is more for donald trump right now. because clearly, cognitively he can't sit down and put together coherent sentences for 30 or 40 minutes. so he is essentially saying let's hide the candidate so his voters and his sycophants will just go with the republican party candidate. it does not really matter what he says. where are the demands for donald trump's policy? we know that there are lot of taking away, but what is the future of a second term donald trump residency look like? those questions are not being demanded of the former president, and we know for a myriad of reasons why. we could talk about gender studies, political science, race and ethnicity. the list goes on and on as to why he is being held to a totally different standard than vice president harris. >> well, trump has concepts of plans. but natosha, we started talking about these numbers. these early voting numbers are wild to me. more than 1 million votes have been cast in georgia in four

days of early voting. but we got to back out a little bit. has you've got to read the tea leaves on this. we don't know who they voted for . party affiliation also does not mean as much anymore. and, let's be honest, there is the privacy of a ballot box where you can vote your conscience, ladies and gentlemen. you can do that and you can vote for the right candidate without a fear of being judged, because you had some party affiliation. >> i think the american people have been watching, and they are concerned about the hijinks. we have heard voters who have said we see a donald trump who, in the past, tried to make you doubt the results of the election before you even had the votes counted. so, by going at avoiding any drama on election day, going in early, i am making sure that my voice is heard, that there is not a question. for others, they want to make sure that there is such a large gap between kamala harris and donald trump, should kamala harris win, that there is no question that she won. because we saw it happen to joe biden. so i think that people are sort

of preemptively trying to avoid some of the drama that is going to come out of a really close election, which we keep hearing the news that this is what it is going to be. remember, it is the people who decide. it is not the polls, which are a sample of the american public. it is the people who decide. and they want to create a new reality. a lot of people are ready to turn the page. >> and christina, i wanted to ask you this. you mentioned about the media and how she has been doing these nontraditional media outlets. there is discussions that she may be doing something like a joe rogan podcast, right? we don't see donald trump going into the lions den, and it makes me so tired when i see the trump surrogates claim that because he went to an nab j conference and spoke and showed his disrespect, and showed his lack of substantive responses, that that, in some way, is the equivalent of kamala harris sitting down on fox news are going to a joe rogan podcast. >> right, we know that the

playing field is not equal. so what has made kamala harris and the harris walz ticket so successful thus far in the short window, that they are running their own race. let donald trump go see the blacks or go to a latino barbershop and randomly walk around, because his perception of people of color is so disrespectful, as you said. and it goes back several decades , not just to him, to his father, as well. so kamala harris is saying you do that over there. i'm actually going to talk to your supporters and explain to them why one warehousing. explain to them how the environment affects your community. explain to them why we should not got a look education. explain to them why it is that international affairs do affect you mystically. and job creation, local level politics, larger federalism issues that white voters, quite honestly, who have been republican voters. not black men, as natosha and i have laid out on print and in interviews. but it is white voters who are calcified in the republican party. she is also talking to them. not just giving benefits to

black men and laying out a plan for african-americans. she said white voters, all this affects you, as well. and you are consistently voting for a party that works against her interest. she might not say it as bluntly as i just did, but she is laying out an economic plan for people who have been consistently under resourced, because of the policies of a donald trump and the republican party. >> and sometimes people can show you better than they can tell you. so she showed, she went into the lions den and she took the tough questions. they said she could not handle it, they said she would fold, they said she wasn't smart. she said let me show you and him and straight. and now, people who were maybe on the fence, they have seen her in the hot seat. >> don't go anywhere. natosha and christine are sticking around for more after this quick break. and later, coming up on the katie phang show, trump is exhausted. and it showed at a recent rally, sparking more questions about whether the 78-year-old trump is truly up for the job. yes, it appears like he is snoozing there. keep it right here.

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with so much great entertainment out there... wouldn't it be easier if you could find what you want, all in one place? my favorites. get xfinity streamsaver with netflix, apple tv+, and peacock included, for only $15 a month. >> he just decided, you know what, i'm going to stop taking questions. and then he is swaying to ymca for about half an hour. folks are standing there, not sure what's happening. can you imagine if i did that? you would be worried if your grandpa was acting like this.

>> now he is ducking debates and canceling interviews. come on. and, check this out, his own campaign team recently said it is because of exhaustion. well, if you are exhausted on the campaign trail, it raises real questions about whether you are fit for the toughest job in the world. come on. come on. >> it is a great question. is donald trump fit enough mentally and physically for the toughest job in the world? we are back with natosha alford and christina greer. look, two weeks ago i said the 25th amendment looms large. because jd vance is a smart guy, and we all know that he knows donald trump is an old 78 years old, and it is an automatic presidency for jd

vance if he can get donald trump shoved out of that job, assuming that they actually make it across that finish line in november. you know, natosha, it does make us legitimately concerned, because people spend so much time talking about joe biden's age and fitness to serve, and yet, we see with our own eyes what happens when donald trump now doesn't do interviews, sways at rallies for 30 to 40 minutes to music, and he is avoiding the spotlight. >> i think people have always confused the bluster and his ability to speak loudly and speak to people's emotions with competence. his supporters portray that as competence. but really, think about it. he is just a professional instigator. he is a professional con man. he stirs up anger, he stirs up resentment, but very, very few examples of what he would actually do to solve problems. i think he also oversimplifies really complex and nuanced issues, like immigration. so

that he is essentially exploiting people who don't understand the complexities of these issues, offering really simple solutions, and scapegoats for why we have the problems that we do in the united states of america. so he has never actually been an effective leader. he has just been a really good salesperson of simple ideas, and unfortunately, there are people who have fallen prey to that. >> and you know, christina, one of the terrifying things, and i'm glad that natosha brought up immigration. calling people the enemy within. but he does not limited to just immigrants. he brings all of us in. the socialist, leftist, marxists that are the democrats. and he tells his supporters that we, as americans, if we don't support him, that we are domestic enemies. i want to play very quickly some of the sound that we have from that interview that kamala harris did with bret baier at foxnews. >> no, that's not what you dish out. in all fairness and respect you. you didn't show that, and here's the bottom line. he has repeated it many times. and you and i both know that.

and you and i both know that he has talked about turning the american military on the american people. he has talked about going after people who are engaged in people peaceful protest. he has talked about locking people up because they disagree with him. this is a democracy. and in a democracy -- >> i mean, christina, first of all it was wrong for bret baier to not play the right-click during the interview. i am not even going to say that he apologize, because he didn't. later on he said it was my team's problem that played the wrong clip. putting assigned the mansplaining and the constant interruptions, this is a serious issue. donald trump has promised in writing for product 25 and through his own words that he is a dictator on day one. and the loyalists are going to help him do what he plans to do, is not just deportations of immigrants, it is rounding up people like us who dare to speak up and out against him. >> absolutely. but there are so many of his

supporters want that. forget, when donald trump first became president his first order of business was an executive order for a muslim ban . and it was the courts that actually said that's an overreach. so, what is so dangerous is that during the first term of donald trump, when it was a smash and grab and he did not really understand how unified government works and did not utilize congress, thank goodness, he thought that he could just have rings over edict. and they were a lot of republicans that were like this is a stopgap. there is a reason why we put the checks and balances in place. read the federalist 51. but this time he's got the bottom of the barrel type of folks who do not care about democracy, and you mentioned jd vance. you don't get jd vance. we are talking about jd vance and peter thiel. we are talking about billionaires who have a real investment because they recognize -- >> elon musk. >> elon musk, an immigrant himself, by the way, just like many of donald trump's ex-wives. so, we know that the types of people who are surrounding donald trump in a potential second donald trump presidency

are incredibly dangerous, because they don't respect the will of law. and this will be a methodical dismantling of american democracy. so it goes beyond just journalists and institutions. when he throughout the word fascism, every accusation of donald trump is a confession. every single time. he needs to be the hero and the victim simultaneously. so whenever he says that the democrats are doing x, y, and z, they're going after us and they are unfair, and they want to change the country, that is because he knows that's what he wants to do. and so, we have to taken seriously, and i think the hard work that natosha is doing, and everyone, in the next 2 1/2 weeks, they have to make sure that their loved ones have a voting plan, that they get it, that they are working on the infra structure. like stacey abrams in georgia. we cannot take any vote for granted, because there is still some people quietly on the fence, who just don't know if a woman could lead this powerful nation. but he is the alternative. and it is not a scare tactic. it is a reality and a policy perspective that we must lay out for people, specifically

who are thinking that maybe it wasn't that bad. you know, we sort of have covid brain when it comes to the donald trump residency. we don't remember just how terrible it is. and we are starting to see it when you look at the fda, and even our food from some of the policies he made many years ago. chickens are coming home to roost. >> i have less than a minute, it's great, but i just want to get your thoughts on that. >> of course. when dr. greer was talking, i was thinking of the pole that said there was a third of americans who believed in the immigrants poisoning the blood. >> the dehumanization of the immigrants. >> what he is doing is strategic. he is not dumb, in that sense. he is playing on historical stereotypes, fears, xenophobia that has been part of the american story. there has always been somebody, a group of people who have been scapegoated. so donald trump knows that in this moment, that is what he needs to do to stir up that year, stir up that resentment,

so that way you have voters who are distracted over here and not asking about what his solutions are. >> and us versus them has worked before, not just in the united states, but in other countries. but they have seen it work for fascists, dictators, autocrats, and that is the way that have led to scores of people being exterminated, using that verb. i use that verb because it is exactly what's happening. christina gray. dr. christina greer. we got to do that. dr. christina greer and natasha offered making her maiden voyage on the katie phang show. thank you for being here, both of you. and we got some breaking news right now on between boeing and its west coast workers. this morning the boeing machine issued a statement that with the help of acting u.s. secretary of labor julie sue who we just had on the show last week, they have negotiated a proposal and solution to end the strike. the proposal will be voted on by the more than 30,000 union members on wednesday, and some of the details proposed in the new contract include a 35% general wage increase and a higher retirement company match. boeing released a statement of

its own, saying, quote, we look forward to our employees voting on the negotiated proposal. and that is a biden harris administration deal. coming up after the break, swing state superstars. vice president kamala harris putting the pedal to the metal this weekend, and bringing some a-list ride along's on the campaign trail with her. but how much political gas do celebrity endorsements have on the voters who are still making up their minds? we are going to break that down coming up next.

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campaign. congresswoman, it's always good to have you on the show. kamala harris is set to attend two to rallies today in detroit and atlanta. we have seen her dial up calling up trump's mental fitness in the last two days, more than she has done since she became the candidate. what can we all expect from the campaign as it makes its final push into election day? >> yeah, i think what you are going to see is, number one, a team that is out there and is working, and when i say a team, it is not just the vice president and governor walz. there are over 100 surrogates that are out right now, just this weekend we are all over the battlegrounds. i, myself, i am in north carolina at this moment. i flew on a redeye from las vegas. so, yes, we are working everywhere to earn every single vote, and we are trying to show the american people that we will meet you where you are, because you matter. and we are also trying to show them that we will absolutely work for them, instead of this idea of we are just going to

sit around and hope that you will show up for us. >> so, we have seen outreach in a substantive way to blackman this week from the harris campaign. but, as the nations ellie missed all points out in his opinion piece, over 60% of white men are going to vote for a convicted felon. somewhere around 50% of white women are going to vote for and adjudicated and devout misogynist. black men are not your problem, democrats. if you have a point, congresswoman? >> he absolutely does have a point. it is a point i have been trying to make. i think that there will be a falloff of men of every single background. i think asian men, black men, white men, hispanic men, and i think that is something that we truly recognize. i mean, when we look at who is supporting who, we see that there is a huge gap when we look at women in general, and women are definitely breaking for harris