sit around and hope that you will show up for us. >> so, we have seen outreach in a substantive way to blackman this week from the harris campaign. but, as the nations ellie missed all points out in his opinion piece, over 60% of white men are going to vote for a convicted felon. somewhere around 50% of white women are going to vote for and adjudicated and devout misogynist. black men are not your problem, democrats. if you have a point, congresswoman? >> he absolutely does have a point. it is a point i have been trying to make. i think that there will be a falloff of men of every single background. i think asian men, black men, white men, hispanic men, and i think that is something that we truly recognize. i mean, when we look at who is supporting who, we see that there is a huge gap when we look at women in general, and women are definitely breaking for harris. but there are still

those that, for whatever reason, believe that a woman cannot be strong enough. and we know that, well, there was a debate. and while there were dogs that were mentioned, it seemed like the only person that got dog walked with him. and he got dogwatch to the extent that he did not want to be walked anymore. and so, we know that he is giving out on all of his interviews. he will show up to 60 minutes, he won't show up to cnbc, he won't show up to really anything. so, to me, for anyone the questions who has strength and who is weak, it is very clear. there is only one person that has decided she will go into the belly of the beast, including fox news, to make sure that she will make her point. and, as you've already laid it out, she laid bret baier out. so i don't know if i would believe that this guy could stand up to the likes of xi jinping, nor do i believe he could stand up to putin, his

friend that he was sending covid tests two. we need somebody that, number one, and those who are friends are, and number two, has real strength. and strength is not determined based upon your sex when you are born, is determined based on the type of leadership that you bring to the table. and right now, on that side, on the orange side of the aisle, there is no leadership. but on the blue side, we are holding it down. >> you know, politics makes strange bedfellows, congress woman, that is how the saying goes. there are some talks that nikki haley might actually campaign with donald trump. although he can't even stop himself from dissing her, as early as yesterday, on fox news. is there still a push by the harris walz campaign to be able to bring in disaffected republican voters that may not want to be able to vote for another trump administration? >> absolutely. like i just said, she went on fox news. she was not finding her based on fox, that is for sure. but there are those republicans that still believe that we really just have differences as it relates to what taxing policy looks like.

there are those that believe in fiscal conservatism. there are those that believe in small government. and as it was just laid out in an interview recently, by a young lady, and i think she interviewed on this network, and she said you know what, this is like the biggest overreach of government that i've ever seen. and i agree. reaching into my doctors office, feels like a large overreach to meet. reaching into my kids school and deciding that my child should not learn lack history in this country sounds like overreach to me. so there are those that say we, right now, our only republican in name. we are not republican in practice. and i think that those are the ones that are saying we may not agree with kamala harris on everything, but at least she stands for things such as the actual constitution, instead of saying that she wants to get rid of the constitution. like we know that donald trump has kind of toyed around with. she also believes in this idea of diplomacy, and making sure

that we are safe here at home, because we are making sure that our allies are acknowledged as just that, as allies. right now there seems to be only one team that absolutely believes in the united states. right now the other team is all about dividing the states. and i think that those republicans that believe in the foundational themes that make us the great country that we already are, those are the ones that are coming over, because they see someone who is pragmatic and is willing to do what government was always meant to do, which is to govern instead of blowing up everything. >> congresswoman, quickly before i have to let you go, i have to ask you about this amazing report that came out. you remember the house oversight committee, this report talks about the violations of the emoluments clause by trump in the first

demonstration. three times, charging almost 300% over what the rates should be to the united states secret service and other officials that were staying at trump parties. talk very quickly about what the findings were in this report. >> yeah, long story short, trump is a crook. that is what the report says. we already knew it. these are just the receipts to back it up. we knew that the fact that he refused to divest himself of all of his businesses was going to be a problem. and so, what he has done is he is taking money from mar-a-lago , and the various other hotel properties that he has, and he is taking money from foreign governments, he has taken money from people that he decided he was going to get pardons too. remember, it is paper play. and the only seemingly successful scheme that he has never run is the scheme that he ran as he sat in the oval office. the other frauds have been called out, and that is exactly why he has been held liable in civil court as well as criminal court. >> is not running for office, he is running to avoid going to prison. congresswoman jasmine crockett, i'm going to let you go take

your vitamins, make sure you're eating, because i know you're very busy. it is good to see you. >> it to see you. coming up next, quote, legal trials are not like elections to be won through the use of the meeting hall, the radio, and the newspaper. inside the nearly 1900 pages of evidence unsealed yesterday by that judge in trump in d.c. election interference case, and why trump was so desperate to keep it quiet with just 17 days to election day. keep it right here on the katie phang show. leading strategists like us. when you want to invest with more confidence... the answer is j.p. morgan wealth management

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sleep better. live purple. visit purple.com or a store near you today donald trump may be continuing his 2024 run for the white house, but he can't outrun his d.c. federal election interference case. on friday, judge chutkan ordered the release of the previously filed by jack smith. while the pages are heavily redacted and some information

may have already been made public, we gain insight and adjust how jack smith and his team are planning to continue to prosecute donald trump in light of the supreme court's presidential immunity decision from this past summer. in response, trump responded by whining about quote election interference, and by calling judge chutkan, quote, the most evil person. joining me now, joyce vance, msnbc legal analyst and cohost of the hashtag sisters-in-law podcasts. joyce, my friend, there were a lot of hullabaloo over the release of these appendices, these four volumes of exhibits. and listen, i am disappointed, too. i would love to see more. talk about why it was important, which i think is the mission statement here. that judge chutkan is staying on course here, and she is not delaying and buying into the argument that there should've been a delay in the release of this information after the november 5th election date . >> right, so this is about the lawsuit. this is about the prosecution. it is not about the election. and chutkan draws that line very clearly. she says she is conducting a

courtroom proceeding, not an election. and there is a presumption in criminal cases, it is an important part of the system, this is that the proceedings should be as public as possible. we don't close our courtrooms in america. when someone is on trial the public as an added and to observe if they are interested. there are exceptions involving grand jury material, and those did not apply here. so what judge chutkan ultimately said to donald trump is, look, you're asking for special treatment and i'm not going to get it. it would be election interference to withhold documents from the public that they would be entitled to see in any other case. i'm not giving you that special treatment here. and that is what donald trump objects to. so violently, and this whole proceeding. that judge chutkan simply is

not giving him special treatment. >> you know, joyce, something that really struck a chord with me was this. we are four years out, almost five from january 6, 2021. which is kind of the meat of this d.c. federal election interference case. and because people like shane austen and ruby freeman had the courage to go after rudy giuliani, and because rudy giuliani had to admit that it was all basically a lie, but none of this was true when it came to the voter fraud, when we see the release of information like john eastman's memos outlining the plan to be able to do the fake collector scheme, and mike pence saying there is no fraud, and i'm going to certify the election, it kind of gives credence to the idea that the judicial process, albeit slow, sometimes does work. >> you know, people love to talk about how the wheels of justice run slowly. and i think for the public that is watching this trump execution with a laser beam focus, it has been understandably difficult. i will tell you, katie, my experience of the federal prosecutor for 25 years says these cases do come together slowly. they do not happen overnight. so, i think that while there

are legitimate criticisms that the justice department moves slowly in this regard, this case is now in front of the court. there are some procedural hooks, like this entitlement that from has to take appeals all the way to the supreme court on immunity issues, and of course, there is a unique concern here. because donald trump, if he regains the white house, could, in fact, put an attorney general in place it would dismiss the prosecution against him. but, the reality is that we need to focus more on the reality of what is in front of donald trump right now, this prospect of prosecution, and less on the ways he might avoid it. i think that is a narrative trap that we have fallen into, this idea that trump always wins. guess what? trump is not winning in a federal courtroom in washington, d.c.. instead, a judge is treating him fairly. this week she ruled in his favor on some requests for additional discovery. but she also rules against him on issues that any other criminal defendant would lose on. jack smith will get a fair

trial, the american people will get a fair trial, donald trump will get a fair trial if this case is permitted to proceed. >> let's talk about, now, the next steps. we have seen the motion for the immunity determinations for the attached appendices that were the exhibits. there was an objection, it has now been publicly filed. donald trump will respond accordingly, and judge chutkan will make a decision as to how much of that superseding indictment survives from an attack by donald trump. is it at that point, then, once chutkan rules on what is left of the superseding indictment, that donald trump can take an appeal to the d.c. circuit court of appeals? >> yes. that is exactly right. so, the first thing that we should acknowledge is that trump's response should have been due later this month. instead, his lawyers asked her to extend the time for their response until after the election. in other words, donald trump says that he wanted to get his arguments in front of the public, well, he had that opportunity. and instead, they decided to push it off until

afterwards. once that briefing process concludes, then judge chutkan will take a look at the superseding indictment . what jack smith has done is argued that most of the claims he is bringing against trump involve private, nonofficial conduct. that, of course, is the conduct that the supreme court has said there is no presidential immunity for. and then there is this narrow sliver of conduct involving mike pence and the effort between trump and pens to withhold certification on january 6. smith concedes that that actually is official, but he says that it is the part of the official conduct where, although there is a presumption of immunity, he is able to overcome it in this case by showing that the prosecution would not do anything to impair the functioning of the presidency. so those are the issues that judge chutkan has to resolve , once she makes a ruling about what jack smith is entitled to go forward with, both charges and evidence he can use. then that will, again, go up through an appellate process,

through the court of appeals, and likely onto the supreme court before there is a trial. >> and quickly, joyce, before you and i part ways. for those of you that are keeping track at home, trump still has a sentencing coming up on november 26th, in front of judge juan merchant for the manhattan d.a.s election appearance case. my colleague, rachel maddow, regionally reporting that stormy daniels was made an offer to have yet another hush money agreement between donald trump and her to silence her again, moving forward in the future. is that something you think, joyce, that he will be considering when he ways how much he is going to sentence, i personally think jail, for donald trump? >> so, i think probably not, katie, you will recall that the charges in manhattan hinged on bookkeeping shenanigans. this effort to fraudulently disguise the payments to stormy daniels. looks like here they were so open and up front about it but now we are all hearing about it on the news, courtesy of rachel

maddow. so, i think this time it is not criminal conduct. it certainly shows a stunning lack of self-awareness on the part of trump and his legal team. look, judge merchan has plenty of grist for the mill, because donald trump repeatedly and blatantly violated the protective order in that case. and if there is anything that might push the judge to impose a custodial sentence in a case that might otherwise involve probation, i think it is that violation of the protective order. >> you are always so elegant. custodial sentence. i call it jail. tell bella, your sleeping german shepherd, that we send our regards. it's good to see you. coming up, the last of the sea women. a fascinating new documentary on the korean women that traversed the ocean floor in search of seafood on just a single breath of air. inside the fight to preserve a centuries-old tradition from threats of human pollution and climate change. that is coming up next.

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80 miles off the korean peninsula, a group of female divers known are preserving a centuries-old tradition of diving to the ocean floor without oxygen tanks, to harvest seaweed, marine life, and

abalone. the new documentary on apple tv plus is spotlighting the group of so-called real-life mermaids as they fight to protect their livelihood from vast oceanic threats, including pollution, radioactive waste, and rising ocean temperatures. as one says, the ocean is our home, we can't stop diving, we have to go to the seat. even in my next life, i will dive again, just an old woman in the sea forever. joining me now is sue kim, the director of the last of the sea women. it is a pleasure and an honor to have you here. for our viewers who may not be aware, how did you first become aware of these incredible south korean women who are mostly in their 60s, 70s, and 80s? >> hi, katie, thanks so much for having me. yeah, the henyul are a community of women that have existed for hundreds of years on the island of jeju, off the coast of south korea. as you mentioned, they are renowned for diving down to the ocean's floor to harvest marine life, using only their breath.

by doing this work, they have supported their families and their communities, and the island of jeju for hundreds of years. and i first saw them , i was on a trip down to jeju island. i was eight years old and i was with my family, and i just happened upon a community of henyul . and they were so loud, bold, fearless, and strong, and i just fell in love with him at first sight. and then i started going back to find them. >> it is a spectacular documentary, and one facet of it is your highlighting of the existential threat that these diverse face, specifically japan's decision to release radioactive waste from the fukushima nuclear plant into the pacific ocean. how has things like pollution, climate change, rising temperatures threatened these women's line of work?

>> well, you know, when i first started the film i thought of the greatest existential threat was simply young women not wanting to take up the work. but then, once i started interviewing them, that is when i found out that it is actually climate change and global warming. they were doing the most damage to the marine life. so now there is very little marine life for them to hunt and harvest, and they have to go deeper into the water, which just makes their job more difficult, because as we've mentioned, they use only their breath to free dive. now there is the radioactive treated wastewater from fukushima that is being released into the ocean, and we really don't know what the effects will be, but obviously it can be very good. and the haenyeo, obviously, are very concerned about it. >> you know, in the 60s there were about 30,000 haenyeo. now it is down to only about 2000 today. why is it such a market decrease in the number of haenyeo ? >> well, there is a lack of interest in younger women taking up the culture. so, as you see in our film, all of the haenyeo are in their

60s, 70s, and 80s. we even have a haenyeo that is 92 years old in the film. so, once they die off, this might be the last generation of the haenyeo . >> and, the nobel peace prize winner was a producer, got a producer credit on the film. some people, when i was looking on social media, they were like weight, she is not korean. so, how did this actually come to pass that she became involved in this project? >> well, she had started a production company about three years ago, and the president of her production company happen to see an earlier film that i did, and reached out to me and just asked me is there a story, is there anything that you are dying to tell? and i had been pitching this film for about, i don't know, five or six years. and i just could not quite get any traction. so, it ended up being kind of this perfect partnership of

malala as a humanitarian icon and an advocate for women's rights, and this film is filled with so many themes of women empowerment. so it was a perfect marriage. >> and quickly, before we have to go, i do want to ask. you are korean, i am korean. what was it like for you to be able to go back to the country of your family's origin and be able to explore a centuries-old tradition? >> it was so rewarding. i was so embraced by the haenyeo, i was embraced by are completely korean crew. it felt like a very full circle moment, given of the first time i had ever seen on the the haenyeo was on a trip to korea with my family. it was very rewarding. >> so, i want to thank you for joining us today, i was want to amplify and lift voices, but i am especially excited because this documentary, that everyone can go and watch on apple tv plus, is available right now. the last of the sea women. thank you for joining me today. >> thank you so much for having me, katie.

>> thank you. and i think that all of you for joining us today. you can catch me saturday at noon eastern. make sure to follow us on social media using the handle at katie phang show. you can also catch clips of the show on youtube and you can listen to every episode of the katie phang show as a podcast for free. scan the qr code right now that you have on your screen and follow us now. but please, don't go anywhere. msnbc reports with my friend alex witt is coming up next. n. nope. family pairing on tiktok. ♪♪ speaker: who's coming in the driveway? speaker: dad. dad, we missed you. daddy, hi. speaker: goodness. my daughter is being treated for leukemia. [music playing] i hope that she lives a long, great, happy life and that she will never forget how mom and daddy love her. saint jude-- maybe this is what's keeping my baby girl alive. [music playing] narrator: you can join the battle

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