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standing the test of ti... he's melting! oh jeez... nooo... oh gaa... only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ yesterday donald trump called the judge presiding over his election interference case the most evil person for ordering the release of nearly 1900 pages of previously sealed documents. that is not all he said on the podcast. he also accused her of interfering with the election herself, and took some shots at special counsel jack smith. take a listen. >> it's not even believable. this guy is a sick puppy, and they are going to release something else, and always before the election. you know, they want to do it

before the election. it is election interference. it is a terrible thing, what is happening. >> what's interesting is that judge chutkan defended her decision by referencing election interference. she wrote if the court withheld information that the public otherwise had a right to access solely because of the potential political consequences of releasing it, that withholding could itself constitute or appear to be election interference. after all of trump's comments, the appendix released was not explosive, and most of it was heavily redacted. but it still underscored trump's efforts to overturn the election results. joining me now is msnbc political analyst michelle goldberg, and msnbc legal analyst danny solids. i will start with you, danny. your reaction, what is new, which we take away from it? >> the answer is not a lot is new, and what we should take away is not much, because most of this was either already known or already suspected. yes, we learned some new things about a conversation that trump may have had with the valet that may have started earlier,

which would take the total run time of the time from which he knew of the assault on the capital to the time he did anything about it, make it longer, and that looks bad. but then the take away is who is really swayed by that in terms of the election at this point? who is still an undecided person who is going to be swayed by oh, trump knew about this even an hour earlier? maybe some voters out there are, but legally speaking, is any of this groundbreaking, legally wise? i don't think so. but what i think was far more significant was the brief, which came out sometime earlier, which really laid out the government's entire case against donald trump. that is fascinating for us. kind of a benefit to the defense to get that kind of very rare outlook of what the government plans to prove. that is not something we normally get, so you'd better believe the defense appreciated that brief. but it did lay out how detailed the case is. >> so, michelle, trump was looking to delay the release of

this appendix until after november 14, a week or so, nine days or so after the election. what does that tell us about how scared trump might be for any information related to his case to be released in this final stretch, and, at this point, can it actually have an impact on undecided voters, if there are any undecided voters left out there? >> i think if there are undecided voters out there, i doubt many of them know who jack smith, nevermind is. i just think they are certainly not making their decision according to the minutia of the various cases against donald trump, or, for that matter, the incredible seriousness of the various cases against donald trump. part of this is just donald trump's m.o. attack, attack, attack, no matter what. throw a complete fit over the release of this material, that, as dan said, there is very little new there. and certainly nothing that can plausibly be election interference. i think what is probably

enraging him is the reminder that if he loses into and a half weeks, this is what is waiting for him on the other side. and even if he wins, there are still 2 1/2 months in which this judge has shown that she is not going to be intimidated by him and his kind of spurious arguments. >> let's turn to another piece of legal news. jack smith this week, another filing, released on wednesday, saying special prosecutor basically claiming that donald trump bears responsibility for the january 6th attack on the capital. how does that strengthen his case? what is the significance of that? it was kind of presumed that he had always felt that donald trump was legally responsible for what happened on january 6th.

>> this is what jack smith has done in the last few months. take a look at the immunity decision. go to the grand jury, get a superseding indictment that basically rewrites the allegations, essentially taking out the word official conduct and president, and substituting the word candidate, or unofficial conduct. that is the mission, and as jack smith steam has seen it. keep in mind, that superseding indictment, normally for a defense attorney, a superseding indictment is terrible news. it means there are more charges or more defendants. and more defendants are generally bad for an individual defendant, for a number of different reasons. not the least of which is that they may cooperate. but that is not what this indictment was. essentially it removed some allegations and a streamlined and reworded it so that jack smith could make the argument that this had nothing to do with official conduct. this was purely private conduct. that is what every filing, since the immunity decision several months ago and now has really been geared around doing. that, and moving the case along as quickly as they can. but i say that with an asterisk, because now jack smith and everybody who is following this realizes that if donald trump is elected, it really doesn't matter when this

trial is scheduled. the key is that it won't happen before the election. >> he just comes in and he will shut it down, and that has no consequent is? he can just come in and instruct the doj, to the u.s. attorney or the special counsel to shut this investigation down and everybody is just going to be okay with you? >> there's two ways. it will be quite as direct as that. what he does is he finds an attorney general, someone who probably pitches to him i love you so much, as soon as i get in, in my belief, these cases are unjust and i will have the dismissed. that is the cleanest way to do it. from there, the lease clean way to do it is to try to self pardon. it has never been tried before. most scholars say you can't do it, but we don't know, because it has never been tried. >> we also had thought the president did not have absolute immunity until the supreme court granted it. >> exactly right. and that's interesting, you ask in a president just do that, get rid of the case? one thing we know from the supreme court is that talking to your doj as a president, even if it is the worst thing you did, even if the most

deplorable thing you did was tell your doj hey, help me as a candidate win the election. that is the one thing that got excised from the charges, because the supreme court said hey, we are going to come down and be factual about one thing. talking to your doj is pretty much always immune. so it stands to reason that ordering your doj to toss your criminal case is probably is fine. >> michelle, let's cross over to georgia for a moment. the d.a. asking the appeals court to restore six charges against trump that had already been tossed out because the judge said the prosecutors failed to provide enough details. this case has been on hold for months. but what does this tell us about how determined prosecutors like willis are bringing trump to court? her case will not be dismissed, regardless of what happens on november 5th. >> look, i think that what you have are eight diligent prosecutor in various parts of the country fighting against these unbelievable obstacles put up by a supreme court determined to grant trump total or near total impunity.

so you've seen, it is this kind of david and goliath battle, and if donald trump becomes president, yeah, you're right, he can't have these charges tossed out. but he will still have lots of ways to delay this until after four years. >> all right, michelle goldberg, danny, thank you to both of you, we greatly appreciated as always. next up, israel says the prime minister's home was targeted by a drone, and in our next our paolo ramose, tim o'brien, and hayes brown are all with me to break down trump's evolution into the very hiding in the basement candidate that he mocked joe biden for being. don't go anywhere. s. ooh! penny stocks are blowing up. sweetie, grab your piggy bank, we're going all in. let me ask you. for your wedding, do you want a gazebo and a river?

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earlier today, hezbollah picked up its attacks on israel, launching a drone that targeted by minister benjamin netanyahu's resident, in what he is calling it assassination attempt. most rockets and drones were intercepted, and there were no casualties reported. the prime minister was not home at the time of the attack. hours later, israel struck a route and surrounding areas more than 10 times after a week of bombardments in the region. in northern gaza, dozens have been killed, including women, children, and patients, and direct strikes on hospitals and refugee camps over the past two days. many are on the brink of starvation. food or aid has not reached the area in weeks. these are just a few major developments in the days since the israeli military confirmed the killing of yahya sinwar, the architect of the october 7th attacks. israel had dubbed him a dead

man walking, and believed he was hiding in the labyrinth of tunnels underneath gaza, possibly among the hostages or near them. but hours after confirming his death, the military released drone footage, allegedly showing his final moments that were anything but. during a ground siege, israeli forces found sinwar alone, injured in a building covered in dust, throwing a stick at the approaching drone before being shot in the head. sinwar was both a powerful political and military figure, ruling from within gaza. he had spent years in prison in israel before being released in a swat deal for a captured israeli soldier. considered a hardliner, many were surprised when he was named the new leader of hamas, following the assassination of previous leaders, including back in july. sinwar has quickly become the interlocutor for hostage negotiations at the time, while also leaving battlefield operations in gaza. here in the u.s., white house national security spokesperson john kirby specifically called sinwar the major obstacle for the release of hostages and in

the attacks on gaza. his killing has been largely framed as a major step towards the end of the war. >> israel has a right to defend itself, and the threat hamas poses to israel must be eliminated. today there is clear progress towards that goal. hamas is decimated, and its leadership is eliminated. this moment gives us an opportunity to finally end the war in gaza. >> but since his assassination, despite the comments from the president and the vice president, israel said the war would actually continue. and a senior member of hamas told nbc news that the military group would only become stronger. hezbollah and lebanon who has

had its own leader killed by israel, as well, has also bound to escalate its attacks on israel in response to the continued strikes in gaza and sinwar's death. there is also been no update from israel or the united states about the 97 hostages that are still held in gaza. after the break i'm going to talk to a journalist who has been covering hamas about the significance of yahya sinwar's assassination. stay with us. stay with us. including those with asthma, diabetes, copd and certain other conditions. but i'm protected. arexvy is proven to be over 82% effective in preventing lower respiratory disease from rsv and over 94% effective in those with these health conditions. arexvy does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients. those with weakened immune systems may have a lower response to the vaccine. the most common side effects are injection site pain, fatigue, muscle pain,

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before the break i broke down a number of developments following the assassination of hamas leader yahya sinwar . what is his killing mean for the future of israel's war in gaza, and wider regional wars? joining me now is cofounder of drop site news and cofounder of the intercept. jeremy, it's great to see you again. i know you have covered hamas extensively throughout the year. you know a lot about yahya sinwar and other leaders. can you tell us why, first of all, he has been so controversial of a figure to the israelis and the americans, even before october 7th? >> yeah, i just want to begin

by saying that as we're speaking tonight, the israelis are waging an extermination campaign in the north of gaza. for the past two weeks they have surrounded the area, and they have intensified it after the killing of yahya sinwar . no food or medicine of any kind has reached most parts of the north. i am in direct touch with medical officials in the north and with journalistic colleagues . i understand that at least 80 people have been killed tonight in a horrifying set of attacks on half a dozen residential buildings. i've just gotten done seeing images from the ground, where children are being shredded like meat in a butcher shop. i don't understand how any of us, whether we are journalists or not, this is not about objectivity. how any of us can watch this genocide on hold in real time and watch the pontificating of the politicians running for president and not just cry out

this has to stop. i mean, this has to stop. we've looked at this, i know you have reported on the ground from gaza. we are watching a genocide in real time. i'm sorry, but on this network also, there are people who have promoted propaganda from israel. there are people cheerleading for those running for office who are lying to the american people about concern for the palestinians. and yes, we should talk about yahya sinwar. but yahya sinwar is also, in many ways, the story of gaza. yes, this was a violent man. but his violence was rooted in the fact that he was born in a refugee camp. and israel, throughout his entire life, waged war of annihilation against the palestinians. i am not here to defend yahya sinwar . i am here to say that we can't talk about who yahya sinwar was, or what hamas is, without talking about 76 years of colonialism , of apartheid, of mass killing, of mowing the lawn, of controlling the calories. yahya sinwar's death, the white house is saying this provides a moment to sort of pave it and make a settlement. and what does netanyahu do in response to those speeches from kamala harris and joe biden and john kirby? he doubles down.

he goes full force, final solution on the people of northern gaza. yes, let's talk about yahya sinwar , but my god, we cannot watch more children being shredded and say that this is okay. that this is just a political issue. >> and i was actually going to get to that, because i was going to ask you, based on what you've outlined for us about him, i was going to say that despite the killing of yahya sinwar, israel's most wanted man, who is their excuse for basically doing everything as the mastermind of october 7th, we are still seeing attacks against palestinians in northern gaza, as you just outlined, with the siege that has been unfolding there for the last couple of weeks, after year complete annihilation. and this was on the heels of an american president and vice president who had said it's time for a new page, and the israelis continuously rebuffing them and defying every time they have given them basically an order or demand to change course. >> yeah, that's right. and what is interesting is that the israelis have portrayed,

for the past year, yahya sinwar as a rat, hiding in tunnels, using israeli hostages as his human shields . and certainly yahya sinwar and others in hamas operate in these tunnels. that has been well known. the look of the narrative, even from israel's perspective. you laid some of this out. yahya sinwar died in combat gear, with one of his arms basically severed in the middle of the front end of it, and he manages to throw a stick at a drone, and the israelis put this out and they sort of did sinwar's job for him, by solidifying his reputation as a man who is willing to die for the cause of palestinian liberation. so we are in a situation right now where the entire middle east is on fire. netanyahu's house was hit. has mullah had one of their most successful drone strikes recently on the military base, killing a number of israeli soldiers. the united states has moved the

missile system in israel, has troops on the ground. the white house is humble bragging that u.s. special operations and intelligence were assisting israel in the operations on the ground in gaza, including high-value targeting operations. and we have a lame-duck president who really seems intent following through with his undying support for israel at a time when another lunatic is in office in tel aviv right now, that is threatening what would amount to a complete incendiary arson campaign and throughout the middle east that is going to be bankrolled and armed by the united states. we are in a moment where this has to stop. we can't just sit here as journalists or normal people, whatever your job is, and watch human beings shredded, and say that is self-defense. nothing is self-defense about this. i have covered wars for 25 years. there is nothing about self- defense with what israel is doing right now, tonight in northern gaza. >> let me ask you, if i can, about whether or not those in the u.s., certainly a lot in israel see this as an opportunity to strike iran,

given the fact that hezbollah has been weakened, hamas has been weakened, and they see this as an attempt to redraw their maps of the middle east. going after the holy grail of regime change. what is the likelihood of that, and more portly, what would that mean? >> look, there is a reason that cheney endorsed kamala harris, and it is not about oh, we don't want orange hitler to come back into power. the neocons are looking at the situation right now with the biden administration, saying we would not of been able to achieve this. there is common ground here. this is not just about preventing donald trump. they have long wanted the kind of war that the united states is now facilitating, and it is a bonus that it is happening under a democratic administration, because the biden harris camp has been able to kind of normalize some of this for parts of their base. >> all right, jeremy cahill, i

really appreciate you joining us tonight, and again, reminding the world of what is happening in northern gaza, as is been happening almost every day for the better part of the year. thank you, my friend. >> and people should know that you reported bravely from the ground in gaza, yourself, and you broke an incredibly important story back in 2014. so, thank you for all of your incredibly important work on the ground there. >> thanks, jeremy, thank you so much. take care. a new hour starts after a quick break. break. the power of nature. iberogast.

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