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-can we get ice cream? -we can now. order your premium american made products at wt.com. >> he thinks that china pays for them. this is the same guy who will the thought that mexico would pay for the wall. did mexico pay for that wall? that's what i'm talking about. >> we dipped into your riproaring takedown of donald trump's tariff malarkey. i think that's a non-technical term. tell me about the wild reception for you there. people were very happy to see you. tell us about your message

today. >> you know, we talk a lot about tariffs and we refer to them as a tampa sales tax and the impact on the economy, which they truly have. we don't talk about is their impact on small businesses and the actual impact on households. basically what i said is that of donald trump is elected any institutes 60% across-the-board chinese tariffs, and the people who are making decisions next christmas on what they are going to buy for their kids, what they are going to buy for their families for presence, they are not going to be able to afford nearly as much and somebody is going to have to go without. that's only part one to the problem. part two to the problem is where they buy in their communities, small retailers, small businesses, although spokes and other small businesses, their cost of goods is going up, and they can't pass those on to can rumors, particularly not 60%. what happens is consumers stop buying. and when consumers stop buying that they can't afford christmas presents during the most important quarter of the year for businesses, those

businesses may go out of business. that's a piece the people are missing. tariffs aren't just about the federal or national economy. it's about individual businesses that put their heart and soul on the line to try to compete and make a living and support their families. when you put those tariffs in, there's a cascading negative affect. it's just a vicious cycle that kill small businesses. >> you and one of the first reactions i saw after vice president harris's interview with bret baier. people were sort of seizing on the bret baier of it all, but you seized on the kamala harris of it all. i want you to take us through what you think she accomplished for her campaign last night. >> you know, brett had the opportunity to throw the first punch. she took it and hit him right back. she was responsive, she didn't call him names. she had him right back. you know, she was solid, she was measured. she was consistent in her

message. there some questions she didn't want to answer, she told him where she wanted to go, that's great. that's what you do when you have somebody that is just trying to put you down. stand up, be strong, and i think, truly, that is who she is as a leader. as nobody was going to intimidate her. as nobody was going to talk her into a corner. she's going to stand up to anybody, show her strength, show her the ability to analyze in real time. and like i said, measure. >> you spent a lot of time with sarah longwell. just take us through the pitch you are making to men who are sort of disaffected from politics, don't really see themselves as a traditional democrat or republican but think there's something in donald trump for them. >> yeah, i talked to people who thinks he's a gangster. and i went, that's why you are going to vote for him? i'm like, look. the real world today, different

than four years ago today, certainly different than eight years ago was we are truly addicted to our social media. three kids, 15, 18, 21. it is just scroll, scroll, scroll. for guys in particular, you start with football, you go to another sport, you see women, and then you see something that is aggressive. and then that leads you to getting in contact in particular for donald trump. when you see those names repeated hundreds of hundreds of times a day, you can't expect them to all of a sudden start reading to find out if it is true, to find out if the information is accurate. it is just nonstop repetition, and that influences the decision making. and we talked about it, the campaign is got to come out and reverse engineer those algorithms and come up with a response. >> i mean, one of the purveyors of the algorithms is donald trump's biggest financial backer, the most high-profile sort of way man on the campaign trail, and that is elon musk.

i wince when his posts come up on my feet, but you take them on. tell me what you understand about elon musk that maybe we don't. >> i think is one of the most brilliant entrepreneurs ever. he's an amazing engineer. he is the world's biggest troll. and trolls, if you hit them back, they kind of buckled. it is easy to mess with him on x/twitter, the most interesting thing of his involvement with the trump campaign, you know, a really qualified ceo and head of the republican party is going to have a control over his ground game, and there was an interview that he did with ben shapiro were, ben shapiro asked donald trump, you know, i've heard positive and negative things about your ground game. can you go into it? donald trump didn't even understand the question. he didn't give them any type of answer at all, and that really is the substance around my elon musk is so involved. if i am elon and my candidate doesn't know what they are doing when it comes to running

a campaign, doesn't know what ground game even is and how it works, then i might take that on, and i think that's of elon has done, both financially and operationally. >> what is your sort of theory of the case for the best way to combat sort of the algorithm energy -- some of it is pro trump. a lot of it is anti-harris. what is your best idea, your best thinking, your theory of the case for the strongest way to close and win in 19 days? >> so you have to go where you put donald trump in a catch-22 position. let's talk about deportation. both the vice president and donald trump agree that criminals that are legally should be deported. but what he has not said is how he is going to do with deportation for everybody else. remember gonzales? remember that image of, you know, this militia or whoever they were coming in with machine guns, and a six-year- old kid cowering in the corner?

at so they need to bring up, because i could be a part of donald trump's deportation scheme, and they need to talk about what they are going to do -- the harris campaign, i believe, needs to talk about what they are going to do in terms of deportation on criminals to put them in a position where, you know, the reality is, i think elon, gonzales, after after family after family, and that's a problem for him. im.

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>> president trump, the question was, will you accept the results of the election

regardless of who wins? yes or no, please. >> is a fair and legal and good election, absolutely. i would've much rather accepted these, the fraud and everything else was ridiculous. >> they go after me because i question the elections and things like that. it is nonsense. if you can't question an election, we don't have a country. >> if i lose, it is possible because they cheat. that's the only way were going to lose, because they cheat. >> donald trump has a not so quietly laying the groundwork to cry foul over the election results if he loses. his republican allies are already bombarding the course of lawsuits in the home stretch of the presidential campaign to make it easier to contest a victory of kamala harris. our friend from the new york times warns that, quote, republicans are spent the last four years going pro,

meticulously devising a strategy across multiple fronts, state legislatures, congress, executive branches, and elected judges to overturn any close election. in a world in which one party is still consumed by election fraud claims from 2020 and is prepared to claim the same in 2024, we have much to fear. but if election deniers are more organized, democrats are also more prepared. yesterday in georgia, a judge sided with democrats and blocked a rule passed by the right-wing state election board requiring the hand counting the ballots. a process that could take days and delay the certification of the election. and today, a federal judge in alabama sided with the justice department and civil rights groups blocking the voter removal program in the state. joining our conversation, voting rights attorney and founder of the site democracy docket is here. and with me at the table, law professor at hofstra university

at attorney at the brennan center for justice center. mark elias, i want to ask you about what is new, and i want to sort us that back and sort of have you at this point. let's do that first, actually. after 2000, james baker and jimmy carter studied the issue of election fraud in america and found that there isn't any. every time people look at the question -- and if you commit voter fraud, it's a crime. it's prosecuted, you get caught, and you go to jail. the permeation of the lie is so deep that it is now barrier of entry to even being a republican. top about that dynamic. >> i think this is really important and i think everyone needs to understand this, that there is a tent within the republican party to be in good standing. and you can actually disagree with donald trump's position on tariffs and still be in that tent.

you could disagree with donald trump's position on climate and still be in that tent. you can disagree with donald trump's position on guns or abortions and still be in that tent. if, however, you have the temerity to say the truth, which is the donald trump lost the 2020 election, you are outside the tent. there is no room for you. it is the only nonnegotiable issue in the republican party today. the only thing that you cannot say and be in good standing and donald trump republican party is that there is no widespread fraud in elections, the joe biden won the election in 2020, and that you will accept the result of the election in 2024. that is it. if you say any of those things, you are out of bounds and anything else is variable. >> you go in a voting booth, you get a piece of paper, and you vote on it. it is the same ballot that you are voting for congress. are there any republican members of congress who thought that any of their votes on the

same piece of paper were fraudulent that you remember? >> no. in fact, i suggested that the house and senate would pass a law after 2020 -- i wrote this a democracy docket in 2021 -- that says if you are a member of the house and you can test the outcome of the presidential election -- in other words, if you say there's fraud in pennsylvania and you are elected in pennsylvania, you don't get seated. because the utter hypocrisy -- we are used to a lot of utter hypocrisy and the hypocrisy of 130+ republicans voting against certification of elections when dozens and dozens of them had their election certified and willingly took their seats in the house and the senate under the same terms is just astounding. so i think it is -- yeah, i think it's something to call

out and i think it's something that we should not accept. >> i am sorry to sort of be this dead horse, but i think before we cover claims of fraud, we should be really clear that if a republican claims there is a suitcase full of ballots, that can't be true if they don't also attack the veracity of every other person on the ballot. to your point, for anyone in the media who covers even a claim of fraud, they have to understand that if it's a garbage can full of ballots or a suitcase full of valid or usb drive -- what they were complaining about was the answer on one line. they were not actually contesting ballots, because the only reason every single republican in the house of representatives was sent back was because they believed in the integrity of the ballot. so just a word on how to cover claims of voter fraud in the next 21 days. >> yeah. so i really hope the media covers these with not a both

sides mentality, but a truth and falsehood mentality. there are certain things that are just true and false. the media knows how to do this. and knows how to say that, you know, there are certain things donald trump says are simply not true, and there's nothing more important than to speak with moral clarity around elections. if donald trump is saying that mail-in voting is fraud, they need to call that out and say that is false, because it is false and it is provably false. if donald trump says that, you know, the election results in 2020 were proven to be fraudulent, it is not enough to say, you know, as a kind of disclaimer in defamation, you know, those who looked at this said that this is not true -- it's important that they say declaratively, that is a lie. it is a lie. it is a lie when you say that the results of 2020 were fraudulent.

it is a lie when you say that you won michigan and pennsylvania and wisconsin and georgia and arizona. and when you are a republican enabler and say that you won, it is not a debating point with them. it is a -- you are lying. period. >> on this idea of the claims of fraud being covered in good faith when they are made in bad faith, the mechanism was to take these cases to court, and in court, trump lost 60 of 61 cases. but that took a minute, right? so the lie spread around the world through his base, and for washington in january 6th in the interim. talk about if we are in any better position in the courts than we were four years ago. >> we are in a better position at a worse position. teams like marx are so professional and so prepared, and they did such a phenomenal job in 2020. they are more organized than they are more prepared. the flipside is also true, the flipside is a 2020 was a dress rehearsal.

2020 with the middle school musical version of an insurrection. this time, as the piece that you lead with in this segment indicates, this time, they are professionalized the strategy. this time, the other side is prepared. and the preparation is to create chaos now. mark talks about three different stages of this process, but i think of it as a before, during, and after. if you think about the before, all of these lawsuits -- the rnc has filed something like 126 lawsuits in 26 different states, or is involved 126 lawsuits. those are designed primarily as press releases. they are designed to plant the seeds of doubt now, to so those seeds of doubt, and intimidate the voters, manipulate through what used to be nonpartisan processes of election administration, and which are now installed with political partisans who believe in that lie that mark was just

describing about 2020. and then the after. the after is to build on the foundation of all of those seeds that you are planted and that you frankly curated between now and the election. so we are in a better position because teams like marx are prepared. but we are in worse position because those who are seeking to derail the process, you know -- courts are going to play a role and lawyers are going to play a role. but the optimistic take here is that voters get to fly the plane. and unless we get 537 vote margins like we did in florida in 2000, voters -- more than courts and lawyers -- are going to decide this election. they have the potential to decide this election. the reality here, we cannot have rose-colored glasses. the reality here is that in 2020, it was disorganized. 2024 is organized. the attempted revolution may not be as televised this time, but it is going to be organized.

>> this has been prime time weekend. i am nicolle wallace. the student to deadline white house and all of our prime time shows weekdays on msnbc. where ya headed? susan: where am i headed? am i just gonna take what the markets gives me? no. i can do some research. ya know, that's backed by j.p. morgan's leading strategists like us. when you want to invest with more confidence... the answer is j.p. morgan wealth management