focus from harris on those three blue wall states. she spent time in georgia, spent some time in north carolina, little less out west. arizona feels like it might be slipping away. nevada we know will be tight. i think we should expect the vice president to basically live in pennsylvania, wisconsin, and michigan these next two weeks. white house reporter for bloomberg news, akayla gardner. thank you, as always. and thanks to all of you for getting up "way too early" with us on this monday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. we know in terms of the parable of the good samaritan that we have learned and should live a life where, in the face of a stranger, we see a neighbor. but that's not what we see on the other side of this equation in this election. it is constantly about berating people and belittling people and name calling. >> so you have the tell kamala harris that you've had enough, that you just can't take it

anymore. we can't stand you. you're a [ bleep ] vice president. >> i have to say, there is so much at stake right now. when we think about how we have learned and have understood and lived, the knowledge that ours is a loving god. and we understand that for us to do good works, it means to do it in the spirit of understanding that our strength is not based on who we beat down, as some would try to suggest. our strength is based on who we lift up. >> amen. >> and that spirit is very much at stake in these next 16 days. >> arnold palmer was all man, and i say that in all due respect to women. and i love women. but this guy, this guy, this is a guy that was all man. this man was strong and tough,

and i refuse to say it, but when he took showers with the other pros, they came out of there and said, oh, my god. that's unbelievable. >> all right. extremely contrasting focuses over the weekend from the two main presidential candidates, now 15 days, 15 until the election. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is monday, october 21st. with us, we have the host of "way too early," white house bureau chief at "politico," jonathan lemire. president of the national action network and host of msnbc's "politics nation," reverend al sharpton. nbc news and msnbc political analyst, former u.s. senator, claire mccaskill is with us. staff writer at "the atlantic," mark leibovich joins us. and rogers chair and the american presidency at vanderbilt university, historian jon meacham. it's good to have you all with

us this morning. >> great to have everybody with us today. >> two weeks out. >> you know, i've been involved in politics now for 30 years. most of my adult life. at this point, i'm not surprised by much, and certainly not shocked by much. the level of cynicism, though, coming this morning from "the wall street journal" editorial page, in light of comments that donald trump has been making really is shocking. jon meacham, we'll go to you, and then we'll go through all the details. but "the journal's" editorial the day after donald trump said that democrats allied against him are, quote, the enemy from within, on a day after donald trump said that january 6th,

attack on the u.s. capitol, was, quote, a beautiful thing, after he said nancy pelosi and adam schiff were, quote, bad people who threatened democracy and were the enemy within, and then he was asked, will you say you won't persecute or prosecute political opponents, trump said, excuse me, that's what they're doing to me. separate fox interview, trump said his foes, quote, could very easily be handled by the national guard. if really necessary, by the military. he repeated the line about the enemy within days later during a fox news town hall event. you call americans who don't support you, quote, the enemy within. and so this morning, i woke up expecting -- because there are

times "the wall street journal" editorial page checks mr. trump at its worst instincts. instead, they talk about the democrat's fascism meme, and say, basically, democrats are the real national socialists. what they've done is far worse than anything donald trump has done. joe biden's loan forgiveness -- stop me if you've heard this before -- was more law breaking than anything donald trump has ever done. this entire editorial, they fail to mention one time january the 6th. instead, saying the worst thing donald trump has ever done was when he tried to use money to build a wall that wasn't approved by congress. i really, again, very rarely am i left without adequate words to explain what's going on here,

but i was shocked enough yesterday that donald trump continued calling democrats, quote, the enemy within. which, of course, is a precursor to him getting elected, calling them enemy combatants, and being able to lock them up and have military tribunals. they will dismiss this perhaps, but they've never heard language like this before. republicans have been saying, oh, no, he doesn't mean that. he's talking about illegal immigrants. donald trump keeps saying, no, i'm not talking about illegal immigrants. i'm talking about democrats being, quote, the enemy within. let me say that again. and tell me if you've heard this before by major party candidate. calling his political opponents,

quote, the enemy within. worse than putin. worse than xi. he says, oh, they're not our enemies. worse than kim jong-un. >> i'm not sure which is -- yeah. >> political rivals, the enemy within. and they're calling this a meme which, i don't know, jon, i don't know where that puts us. i really don't know where this puts us as a country because i've never heard any politician call his opponent the enemy within and say they're going -- he's going after them. >> we have been -- we haven't been to this particular place in america before. i don't often say that.

it worries me to say that. if we don't have the recognition, and if we don't have the moral and imaginative ability and capacity, it sounds grand, to recognize what is in front of our eyes and what we can hear with our ears, then -- >> yeah. >> -- the central thesis, the central thesis of the american republic, if you want to go back to george washington's farewell address, was that this republic cannot exist without the moral and religious principle of a people. leave out, if you want to, the religious part for a minute, and let's just talk about the moral part. it's not a sermon. it's not a homily. it is not a sunday school lesson. it is moral in the sense of, i care about how things are, not just for me, but for other people. it's a pretty baseline thing.

right? i'm not even saying you have to make it the most important thing. but if you let the will to power, an innate human drama, to try to dominate other people, which is an absolutely fundamental human impulse, the point of the united states was that we were going to manage that impulse. we were actually going to make out of many, one. you know, joe, you and i talked about this before. "the wall street journal" editorial page is enormously influential among people who think of themselves, and usually are, very accomplished, very often economically successful, conservative americans. and you and i have joked in the past. for a lot of people we know, you

could put your grocery list in "wall street journal" font, and they'd go, this is really profound. edmund burke said this about going to the dry cleaners. it as that kind of capacity, that kind of reach. what worries me to death, nearly, is either the kinds of republicans that we know and grew up with either really believe this, they really believe this is a kind of both sides thing, which is bad enough, and what's even worse is they don't really believe it. but because they are not sufficiently troubled by what the former president represents, they're looking for anything they can tell themselves to justify doing something that i think in their hearts they know is wrong. >> yeah. >> well, they do. again, the comparisons, and you've heard it and i've heard it, people saying, well, january

6th was really not much. my gosh, did you see what joe biden tried to do by forgiving student loan debt? >> he wants to forgive this. >> of course, was turned over, parts of it, by the united states supreme court. joe biden didn't have his people attack the capitol. again, this right here, not even mentioned in today's, quote, fascist meme editorial. but yesterday, again, the enemy within, the enemy within, the enemy within. we keep hearing it. and who is the left-wing freak, the left-wing radical "the wall street journal" points to as being the most extreme in her hyperbole? one anne applebaum, who devoted her early life to fighting against the soviet union, whose entire life has been dedicated

to calling out soviet union's evils. when people on the left tried to whitewash their evils in the '40s and '50s and beyond. the same anne applebaum who talks about the challenge of totalitarianism and authoritarian. for "the wall street journal" editorial, she's the radical leftist. doesn't that tell you something? me, somebody who is far more conservative than donald trump, are 99% of the republicans in congress. we used to be conservative, balancing budgets, pushing back against russian aggression like reagan did, like reagan conservatives. far more conservative than anybody in congress that i've seen over the past eight years. far more conservative on those

basic structures of what we grew up knowing conservatism is. anne applebaum is the person here called out as being the radical leftist. it's revealing, isn't it? and here, somebody with a 95% conservative lifetime record in congress, we're the leftists. we're the, quote, sick puppies, which donald trump said yesterday. >> yeah. >> when another fox news interviewer said, joe scarborough once said that your people said they were going to go after "morning joe." instead of playing the tape of kash patel saying that, steve bannon saying that, giving him that evidence. again, it's smoke and mirrors. again, i'm concerned about this because it's shameful, and it

doesn't call out authoritarian language, mika. but make no mistake, the pace is quickening, and there is a reason he is saying, every day, democrats are the enemy within. democrats are the enemy within. pelosi and schiff and all of these people. this is -- they know, everybody knows. >> first time around -- >> it is unprecedented. >> first time around, it was the apportion meme, and we'll get to that, how that parallels perfectly. anne applebaum has a piece coming up in "the atlantic" this week. we'll have her on later this week, which will be good. i want to make that parallel in a moment and go to claire. first, let's show you the latest comments. here's former president donald trump standing by his claim that certain democrats are enemies from within. again, specifically attacking congressman adam schiff and former house speaker nancy pelosi. take a look at what he had to say on fox news yesterday and

later during a podcast interview. >> the outside people, the so-called enemies, if they're enemies, and they might not be enemies, if you have a smart president, they can be handled. but when you have people investigating my campaign, when you have people -- you know, they spied on my campaign. you understand that. that's been proven. but they spy on your campaign. the russia, russia, russia hoax was all made up, and now it's acknowledged that it was made up. all of these different things. you have the 51 different agents saying it was from russia, and now they all say it wasn't from russia. oh, so we were lying? many other things, many, many. i could go on. you just don't have enough time. but what they've done is so terrible. who has ever heard of anything like this? adam shifty schiff. he is a crooked politician and will be a senator now, can you believe it? >> political opponent is an

enemy? >> of course he is an enemy. these are bad people. we have a lot of bad people. but when you look at shifty schiff and some of the others, yeah, they are, to me, the enemy from within. i think nancy pelosi is an enemy from within. she lied. she was supposed to protect the capitol. >> we have to protect our country. maybe we'll let the other side -- i don't call them an enemy. we have more of an enemy from within than we do outside. if you have a smart president, they talk about china and russia and everything else. if you have a smart president, they're not going to be the problem. we have a bigger problem from within. they hate it. i noticed today, they said, he said the enemy from within. adam schiff, these are pad bad people, sick people. >> mike johnson was asked in a cnn interview about trump's enemy from within remarks. take a look at how that exchange played out. >> in multiple interviews this

week, donald trump repeatedly referred to prominent democrats and others on the left in the united states, american citizens, as, quote, the enemy from within, unquote. he suggested as president he'd want to use the national guard or military against them. let me play some of that for our viewers. >> the bigger problem are the people from within. we have some very bad people. we have some sick people, radical left lunatics. and i think it should be very easily handled by, if necessary, by national guard, or if really necessary, by the military. because they can't let that happen. >> one of the first things you did when you joined congress was to create the honor and civility caucus. does wanting to use the military against political opponents, would that pass muster with the civility caucus? >> no, that's not -- jake, you know that's not what he is talking about there. he's talking about marauding gangs of dangerous, violent

people -- >> nope. >> -- who are destroying public property. >> nope. here's what he said when asked about it the next day. >> it is the enemy from within, and they're very dangerous. they're marxists and communists and fascists. they're saying -- i use a guy like adam schiff because they made up the russia, russia, russia hoax. it took two years to solve the problem. absolutely nothing was done wrong, et cetera, et cetera. they're dangerous for our country. we have china. we have russia. we have all these countries. if you have a smart president, they could all be handled. the more difficult are, you know, the pelosis, these people that are so sick. they're so evil. >> that's what he's talking about, using the u.s. military against, not marauding gangs of venezuelans. >> wait a minute. wait, hold on. >> adam schiff, nancy pelosi, nancy pelosi's husband. if a democratic presidential candidate said that you and your wife were evil and that the military should be used against you, i would say, that's disgusting. >> well, thank you.

some have said that about us because they don't like my politics. i did not hear president trump in the clip say he was going to stick the military on adam schiff. you have two different clips in two contexts. what president trump is talking about is that they have been attacking and maligning him from the day he came down that golden escalator. everybody knows that's true in 2015/2016, that's when this began. he's been the most attacked, maligned political figure they've tried to kill him twice. >> who is they? >> he feels it acutely. if you were under attack like he is all the time, every day. >> who? >> iran, who has assassination attempts against him. >> it is not crazy people in the country who get on rooftops and take shots. >> there is this conflation of -- >> they're not. jake, they're not. the political attacks have been relentless and they've been baseless. the colleagues in the house say he must be eliminated, must be extinguished.

>> he is talking about the military being used against democrats. >> no, he's not. >> yes, he is. >> no, he is not, jake. he's talking about using the national guard and the military to keep the peace in our streets. >> don't really understand why speaker mike johnson would like to participate in a coverup and also, quite frankly, for republicans out there, this could be you on a bad day. let me go through this. >> and they? >> i thought that was unbelievable. >> we're talking about nancy pelosi and adam schiff, and he shifts into they investigated him and they tried to kill him. fortunately, jake said, who is they? who is they? >> yeah, doing a great job. and jake had the right clip. it was so easy to have the right clip. anyhow, the point i think we need to look at here is what donald trump has done in the past. what facts do we have to base what we are seeing on? even though republicans continue to try and detract and follow

what you've rightfully called the trump apologist playbook, and pretend things that were said weren't said or he doesn't mean them. donald trump campaigned in his first campaign against abortion. he said, we have to get rid of it. he said we'd overturn roe. women should be punished. roe is overturned, and women are being punished. nobody knows the trump playbook and the fact that trump is serious more than women across america. women are paying the price. >> before the election, what did they say? oh, no, no. trump even said, oh, no, roe isn't going to be overturned. >> what he does is he says extremely serious things about using the military to attack his enemies. he means it, but he also distracts it. in the same day on a particular day, he'll use the word schlonging against harvey

weinstein or whatever he's saying that makes no sense, and there is a flutter about he used the word. or arnold palmer's manly hood. >> yeah. >> he did that and, look, we're talking about it. but, yeah, not that much, because we find his obsession with genitalia boring. we actually think what's interesting here is the fact that he wants to use the military to go against his enemies. now, if you're one of those people who thinks he doesn't mean it or thinks he's joking, let me ask you, what presidential candidate makes that kind of joke? and, quite frankly, is not questioned about it many times over? that's not a joke. that's not even close to a joke. that's not even the kind of joke i would make that sometimes lands badly. he's serious. >> he keeps coming back to it. glenn youngkin made a fool of himself last week saying, oh, no, that's not what he's saying. he's not talking about democrats being the enemy within. the next day, donald trump, yes, it is. he talked about democrats being the enemy within.

talked about adam schiff. then he talked about nancy pelosi. then he talked about it on friday. the enemy within. democrats are the enemy within. saying that xi is not as much of an enemy and putin is not as much of an enemy. kim jong-un, not as much of an enemy or a danger as elected democrats. his elected political opponents. >> claire mccaskill, i would love your thoughts on this and more on how women are already seeing how serious donald trump is in terms of wreaking havoc on their lives. yanking away life-saving health care. the overturning of roe being an example of his threats being real. >> yeah. first of all, mike johnson, who i have respect for his religious

faith that he has relied on so much in his career. he claims it's the most important guidepost for him. i think he needs to look up the false witness part in the bible. >> yeah. >> do some praying on that. hopefully do something that donald trump has proudly proclaimed he's never done, asked for forgiveness. listen, here's the thing about will he do this. i noticed lindsey graham for the first time attacking american military on "meet the press" yesterday, military leadership. he was doing the same thing, donald trump is not a danger. he's not really going to do this stuff. let's take a trip down reality lane. all you have to do, thank goodness we have a way to check this, all you have to do is ask his chief of staff the first time he was in the white house. ask his counsel, attorney general, chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, the highest military leadership in our

country. we need to ask his secretary of defense. we have references here. all you have to do is ask those five people what he tried to do in his first administration. and lindsey graham knows this. mike johnson knows this. he tried to get all of them to do what he is now promising to do. they all said no. here's what's different. he will not put people like that in the oval office next time around. he's proudly said he won't. he's proudly said that they were, you know, picking the best people, and all of these people were terrible. well, they were terrible pause they told him he couldn't do these kinds of things in the united states of america. shame on mike johnson. i mean, that was really embarrassing for him. shame on "the wall street journal." and really shame on poor linds

the day after january 6th, and said he was done with it. >> right. >> just like kevin mccarthy. then they had a little pressure and buckled. still ahead on "morning joe," cbs issues a pointed response after donald trump accuses them of deceitfully editing the "60 minutes" interview with vice president heart race and says they should be taken off the air. plus, how former vice president mike pence is haunting this election. mark leibovich, we'll get to your piece. also, joe joins hbo's "real time with bill maher." we'll show you part of the conversation that covered trump derangement syndrome and the very real concern about the former president. you're watching "morning joe." we're back in 90 seconds. aused unintentional movements in her face, hands, and feet called tardive dyskinesia, or td. so her doctor prescribed austedo xr— a once-daily, extended-release td treatment for adults.

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(intercom) t minus 10... (janet) so much space! that open kitchen! (tanya) ...definitely the one! (ethan) but how can you sell your house when we're stuck on a space station for months???!!! (brian) opendoor gives you the flexibility to sell and buy on your timeline. (janet) nice! (intercom) flightdeck, see you at the house warming. the republicans say, yeah, he talks like a fascist. he'd never really do it. he used to say he'd put hillary in jail. everything was lock her up. four years, he could have done it. it's not good enough for me. >> he tried to do it. he went to two attorney generals, and both of them said, we have nothing to bring charges against her on. >> right. >> people don't remember, two weeks before the election in 2020, he was pressuring barr, his attorney general, to arrest joe biden. what drives me crazy is, this past week, like, i don't want people to listen to me. i don't want them to listen to you. i don't want them to listen to

anybody. i want them to listen to what donald trump says. and this past week -- [ applause ] -- this past week, this past week, donald trump said that he was going to use the military and the national guard to arrest his political opponents. he was asked if he would back off of that. >> he said no. >> and he said no. in fact, he doubled down. he talked about nancy pelosi being evil, her husband being evil, schiff being evil, talking about arresting them. he said he was going to execute the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff because he was disloyal to him. he told another chief of staff, who was a general, "i wish my generals were like hitler's generals." >> it is a new season of "sopranos." >> it's crazy. but people, you know, you tell people this, and they go, oh, he didn't say that. you show them the clip, then they go, he doesn't mean that. >> he doesn't mean it. >> he does mean that. >> that's when they say you have

trump derangement syndrome. i'd like to say to my republican friends, it is not deranged to fear this. >> no, if he says it. >> it is not deranged to believe this. what? >> we're not guessing what he is going to do. >> he is saying it. >> he's saying, this is what i am going to do. >> supreme court decision -- >> i want to get liz cheney in a military tribunal. his people said they're going to arrest my producers. he said he was going to shut down cbs because he didn't like how they edited a package in "60 minutes." he is out of control. his words. [ applause ] >> that was joe on hbo's "real time with bill maher" friday night, alongside the entrepreneur mark cuban. reverend sharpton, trump derangement syndrome is what republicans do to dismiss these concerns. to joe's point, donald trump himself says this. yes, we can spend time about his weekend talking about arnold palmer and staged photo-op at

mcdonald's, but it's the focus on the enemy within. he's said it not once, not twice, dozens of times, that he will use the power of the government if elected again, including, in recent days, suggesting the military to go after his political opponents. this is as dangerous as it gets. >> he's not only said it, he has doubled down on it. and people that worked in his administration have talked about how he would operate in that manner. we have to remember, people that were in his cabinet and that were in his circle are saying, don't vote for him. this is how he believes. this is how he acts. which is a real threat to all of us that have opposed him. you know, i was once leading a march and stabbed, so i take it seriously. i'll say, you better watch security. you're dealing with a man who himself creates two assassination attempts. you would think he would be

careful about trying to demonize and target people, public figures that may be -- that maybe you disagree with. because when people hear that rhetoric, some people can say, he's right, they're the enemy, and they may do anything. not only do you have to fear government, you have to fear people that will take things into their own hands, including the people that tried to assassinate him. it raises the likelihood of a dangerous environment, and we should not belittle that in any way or either side of these political debates. >> he's not looking to take down the temperature. he's ramping it up. violence, the threat of violence is part of this. i know federal and local law enforcement officials deeply concerned that they'll surround this election again. mark leibovich, that's in part because trump has inspired violence previously around january 6th. one of the potential targets of that violence was his then vice president, mike pence. you just wrote a new piece about how mike pence hovers over this entire election.

>> yeah, i mean, mike pence is kind of the living but also the absent example of all of this. this is why -- i mean, he's kind of an example of politics by the mob. his absence, i think, speaks volumes in some ways, and he has, himself, since what happened on january 6th. mike pence, look, he's kind of a symbol of the moment four years ago almost when donald trump kind of broke free of all consequences. once it was clear that he could get away with that, that the republican party would indulge that, that, you know, with help from any number of republicans in the house, in the senate, in the supreme court even, that pretty much anything was possible. the fact that mike pence has kind of been cowed into silence is somewhat, you know, just really off the stage, is itself emblematic of donald trump's ability, not only to perpetrate a really, really, you know, just

un-american history, but also to erase it from the fact that it can be part of any kind of conversation going forward. i wanted to look at mike pence and his sort of specter over the campaign and what it could bode for the future. >> jon meacham, we saw the speaker of the house continue to deny, as the governor of virginia, donald trump's own words that we have on video tape. >> repeated it many times now. >> of course, "the wall street journal" is doing it this morning, the editorial page. of course, they bring up mark milley. they don't bring up the fact that donald trump endorsed the idea of executing mark milley. that donald trump endorsed the idea of putting liz cheney before a military tribunal. that trump said he'd be a dictator day one.

when sean hannity asked him if he was joking, he said, no, i'll be a dictator on day one. his own lawyers told the courts that he could hire s.e.a.l. team six to execute his political opponents and have immunity from that, as well. of course, he talked about terminating the constitution, if that's what was required to be president. and so this is a blindness, a willful blindness, to overlook that he is not fit to be president of the united states again, but he is a danger unique in our lifetimes to be president of the united states. again, they're trying the what aboutism, saying, again, stack all of this up about donald trump saying his opponents are the enemy within and worse than

xi, who, of course, has put 2 million people in a concentration camp because of their religion. they say, democrats are really bad. look what joe biden did in trying to forgive student loan debt. in the editorial, they don't mention january 6th once. >> as you said the other night, the choice cannot be clearer. it can't. i don't know how it could. the people who are on the bubble, who will decide this in many ways, are people who have to say, and who are in their minds saying, yeah, trump may be crazy, but she's a socialist, or

whatever the but is, because they want to get to voting against democrats. right? and any justification, you know, you'll grab anything on your way to try to get there. to me,the choice is, yes, he is an authoritarian figure. just because it didn't work last time doesn't mean it won't work this time. if it weren't for mike pence, we very well could have created 14 days of chaos in this country that would have led to an election in the house of representatives that would have taken a free and fair election away from president biden, right? i mean, that's -- again, that's not us speculating. that's what they said they wanted to do. >> right. >> so the choice here has to be, not, all right, i understand he is an authoritarian, but he doesn't really mean it. let's try to be voters who don't say but, but say and.

he is an authoritarian figure and, therefore, i'm going to vote -- i may disagree about policy, disagree about this or that with vice president harris, but let's be clear, vice president harris is not going to send a mob to the capitol and try to disrupt the peaceful transfer of power. she's not going to talk about the enemy within. she's not going to do this. and we -- if, in fact, you know what, we were talking to some folks during the 2020 cycle. if he wins, maybe this is who we are. maybe that's the complicated, terrible reality we're going to have to confront. but let's try not to be that country. >> all right. presidential historian jon meacham, thank you very much for your thoughts this morning. and coming up, we're going to take a break from politics and turn to a big weekend in sports. the world series is now set. we'll talk about the looming matchup between the dodgers and the yankees. plus, pablo torre joins us

live from minnesota. highlights from yesterday's vikings/lions game. a game that could have been an nfc championship preview. as we go to break, we have big interviews lined up this week. we'll bring you joe's conversation with bill maher, al pacino, and jimmy kimmel. "morning joe" will be right back. the virus that causes shingles is sleeping... in 99% of people over 50. it's lying dormant, waiting... and could reactivate. shingles strikes as a painful, blistering rash that can last for weeks. and it could wake at any time. think you're not at risk for shingles? it's time to wake up. because shingles could wake up in you. if you're over 50, talk to your doctor or pharmacist about shingles prevention.

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dustin hopkins does the honors, and we're off and running in cleveland. half a step inside his end zone. jones, hopkins unable to beat him. here we go. jones, one man to beat him, and he is -- >> inside the five, and he catches it. makes a beeline pass. he has open space. pass the 40. inside the 40. parker washington is going to go all the way for a touchdown as he does -- >> across the field, here's love. to the end zone. diving catch! >> lined up as the fullback. off the right, here's gibbs. good run, best run. good move. there he goes. needs a block. he's in!

>> jalen hurts for aj brown. he's got it! >> here we go, on third down. steps up, takes the shot to the end zone. it is metcalf. coleman, he's still on his feet. coleman at midfield. trying to win a foot race. they finally catch him. >> third and nine for carolina. dalton on the move. he tries to throw it to his own man. he threw it to the other team. intercepted by fowler, and he is going to go! touchdown. >> madison, a block. oh, he's whacked right there. that's a loose ball. picked up. that is a touchdown! >> pressure, mahomes senses it, steps away, and gets around fred

warner. what a run. oh, he's still in bounds! patrick mahomes racing to the end zone, and he is out of bounds. >> wow. what a week. what a week. let's bring in pablo torre. look at the winning plays from the winning teams in the nfl. host of "pablo torre finds out" on meadowlark media, pablo toro. how exciting, the game you saw yesterday. how exciting. let's get some of the junk out of the way first, all right? some of the cellar dwellers. watching the carolina panthers play reminds me of what john mckay, the coach of the hapless buccaneers who went 0-14 his first year, said when they asked about his team. he goes, well, we're actually much worse than our record would indicate. when i see the panthers, it's the same thing. they're absolutely awful. i want to bring up three other teams and just talk about underperforming. right now, who is the biggest

disappointment this far in? is it the browns, who were simply horrid? the cowboys or the jets, who were supposed to be, and, i mean, you look for it, one of the better teams, top to bottom? which of the three teams disappointed the most? >> joe, hello from minneapolis. when you said you wanted the junk out of the way, i thought you wanted to start with arnold palmer talk, but we digress. >> yeah. >> we'll get, in fact, to the new york jets who feels like they've been hit for decades. let's remember what happene. browns are bad. panthers are bad. but with the jets, with aaron rodgers, they're all-in on the premise that the conspiricist quarterback, arguaby once one of the greatest of the generation, has say over the

football team. they got davante adams, preferred receiving target. they play the steelers. by the way, in pittsburgh, they bench your guy, justin fields, bring russell wilson back. and the team is cobbled together with tape, glue, and a little spit. they destroy the jets. >> you know, i am a -- i've always cheered for russ wilson because i thought he was treated terribly in denver. fields, as well. as much as i wanted russ to get a chance, i couldn't believe they took out fields, who, you know, take them to a 4-2 record. my gosh, last night, russ wilson just looked great, didn't he in. >> yeah, the second half. you start off, as you do when you replace fields, who was good, as you point out, you start out being booed if you are russ wilson. that happened early on. the second half, again, just the juxtaposition, the contrast of

aaron rodgers, wilson got better as the game went on. russell wilson ended up being a reminder of sometimes, you know, it's the country music quote. sometimes i'm as good once as i -- i'm not as good as i once was. >> you know country music? >> let me relate to america while i'm in the heartland. >> you're disconnecting. >> here it is. i'm putting my thumb in front of -- here we go. i'm not as good as i once was. >> jesus, take the wheel. >> i'm as good once as i ever was. nailed it. >> you have to know when to hold 'em. >> know when to fold 'em. know when to walk away. you need to know when to run. >> i refuse. >> pablo, let's talk about something you do know about. >> please. >> that is great football games. by the way, what an awesome decision by you to go up and watch this game. two of the best teams in football. the lions came out on top. take us through the game.

>> yeah, yeah. so i am your unilaterally assigned, real america correspondent, going to minnesota. >> yeah, exactly. >> to watch, by the way, what turned out to be a preview, i believe, of the nfc championship game, which is to say, a preview of this season, the two best teams currently in the greatest division, arguably in nfl history. so what this was, joe, was a game in which the detroit lions -- and we all picked the lions, if i recall, the beginning of the season -- it looked grid. hutchinson, star defensive player, was hurt last week. they come into a vikings -- truly have a state of minnesota that is expecting the undefeated vikings to roll. what we get is the greatest game that jared goff, the once cast off quarterback of the lions, ever played. keep in mind as you're watching the clips, the vikings defense is really, really good. their offense with sam darnold has also been great.

again, 5-0 entering this game. but the jared goff we saw was a surgeon. it's really hard to do what he did against a defense like this. so this was a thriller. i mean, this was a game that had lead changes, back and forth. my hands were hurting from skoaling, skoaling. it was an incredible atmosphere. >> of course. >> lucky to see in the nfc title game, and i think we will. >> it was great. goff, i mean, the last stat i saw was, like, 22 for 25. close to 300 yards, two tds. >> near perfect. >> yeah. let's go to claire mccaskill. huge chiefs fan. she'll be asking you about the chiefs/49ers game. claire, your team, the good guys won in the end. both of the quarterbacks, they had -- they've had better days, haven't they? >> i don't know. here's how you judge pat mahomes. does he win?

pat mahomes wins. he figures out a way to win. both teams were hobbled by serious injuries. at this point in time, we'll have the ball boy going out for a pass on the chiefs. wide receivers are dropping like flies. lots and lots of injuries. listen, this guy, he just knows how to win. it doesn't matter if it is pretty. doesn't matter if it is ugly. we are the only undefeated in the nfl, period, full stop. >> pablo, that's your question. >> it's funny. >> claire is asking, what makes the chiefs so great? take it. >> look, i'm deciphering a bit of spin this morning from the senator, right? >> ah. >> even if it is ugly, even if it is not pretty, that indicates this was ugly and this was not pretty, okay? this was patrick mahomes really as bad as we've seen him in recent memory. zero touchdowns. a couple picks. the story of the game, and the

reason claire mccaskill should feel great about this, is because the defense, the chiefs defense. remember, this was the story carrying this chiefs team at times during the regular season last year. they came to bail out the offense again. again, the 49ers, yes, they're banged up. yes, they're struggling. but this is a top team in the nfc, as well. if the chiefs can win games like this -- i remember right after the chiefs won the season opener, i came on here and you were yucking my yum. i was saying this was the team everybody has to beat. the reason i feel ever more confident in claire mccaskill's chiefs is because they can win ugly like this, when mahomes is not the best quarterback of a generation, which he is otherwise. it's because the defense can bail them out. >> pablo, we're going to get to baseball, but i have to bring up two games in college football. let's keep this fairly short because i want you to talk about the yankees/dodgers. premier matchup. the first is, feel free to comment on just how bad alabama is this year.

just how -- >> really messy. >> -- lost. i'm sear, how lost deboer is, how they don't have an offensive scheme. they don't have a defensive scheme. >> like high school. >> they look like a jv team. they were just completely lost through the game. but the game that i find to be most fascinating, because we know alabama is just lost, it was georgia/texas. it said on this show and said throughout the week, what i saw, i saw vegas was giving georgia 3.5 points. i said, you're giving kirby smart 3.5 points, like expecting him to lose two games in a month? yeah, get ready to pay out. sure enough, georgia went to texas and trounced them. >> destruction. they had to change quarterbacks. they went to arch manning, benched quinn ewers. this was an embarrassing

performance by the number one team in the nation, let's recall, by texas. hang your hat on the dominance of the s.e.c. is a fair point. the georgia thing is funny. yes, alabama beat georgia. i was like, they have a 17-year-old wide receiver who is a heisman candidate. lose to vandy. barely beat carolina. lost to tennessee, as you referenced. the only good news for those like you who care about this alabama football team is there is a 12-team playoff for the first time this season. >> yeah. >> two losses doesn't quite mean death, unless, of course, they lose again, in which case, yeah, this is a kalen deboer, please, you know, hire your own political consultant because people are coming for you. this is not the alabama that anybody remembers. it's embarrassing. it's embarrassing. >> yup. >> pablo, let's shift to baseball. we have quite the fall classic ahead of us. the new york yankees back in the world series for the first time

since 2009. gene carlos stanton continues to be hot. soto with a huge home run to finish off the guardians. last night, the mets have given their fans so many thrills in recent weeks, but the magic simply ran out against a better team. now, here we have it. new york yankees, los angeles dodgers. two significant series. they've played in the fall classic a bit, including the dodgers back in brooklyn. you have ohtani, freddie freeman, juan soto, gerrit cole, and the rest. starts friday night. give us a preview. >> look, the macro of this is that baseball has been a regional sport. that's been the critique of it for years now. here, you have what i believe to be the highest rated national world series in terms of the markets, right? this is the dodgers. this is the yankees. this is japan with ohtani. i believe this will be the most watched world series in baseball history. i think it is also a bit like

the batman versus superman thing. i have not seen this matchup in a world series in my lifetime. here, you have the marquee franchises. in my new york yankees, john, just recall, soto, judge, stanton. like, judge right now is the one struggling out of the three, but stanton hit, i believe, five home runs in seven games. soto, of course, we just, i believe, showed the game winner, the three-run shot to win. this is a yankee team that i believe is more complete than the dodgers right now. dodgers beat the mets with the bullpen game. their pitching staff is decimated. at the risk of sounding like an unrepentant homer, which you accuse me of, i believe yankees will get it in. they'll against the greatest player of all time in shohei ohtani. >> all right. by the way, the new york liberty won the wnba championship last night.

>> congrats to the liberty. >> overtime. >> and the mets lost. the host of "pablo torre finds out" on meadowlark media, pablo torre, great to see you. thank you. ahead, our next guest argues the u.s. is moving more to the right. we'll dig into how the democratic party has changed with donald trump seeking a second term. plus, fema administrator deanne criswell will join us to provide an update on the federal recovery efforts in the wake of hurricanes helene and milton. "morning joe" will be right back. back we're going to give you tax cuts. i am not rich as hell. i work hard. i scrape to get by. donald trump wants to give tax breaks to billionaires, but kamala harris has plans to help us. she's going to crack down on price gouging and cut taxes for working people like me. i voted for donald trump before, but this time i'm voting for kamala.

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trump, what was the most important issue facing our nation? so for you, what is the exact number of murderers let loose in this country? >> i'd glad you brought up the topic of immigration. >> a million, two million? >> first, we introduced a bill.

>> ten million, give me a number. >> bret, we came up with a bipartisan. >> did it have an answer? >> i'm asking you to. >> well -- >> but i'm talking. here's what joe biden said about you and your candidacy. >> okay, look, here's the deal, it's a total tragedy. i'm not kidding around. everything she touches will be destroyed. no joke. watch out, florida. [ applause ] >> bret, he is clearly talking about the hurricane. he said, watch out, florida. why do you keep playing these misleading clips? >> i don't. but here's some more. >> folks, we have other problems on our hands. i'm being serious, come on. four years ago was amazing. it was the guy you wanted. now, they got this girl, and people are going, what is she doing here? come on. >> okay. bret, you and i both know he is

talking about the new "joker" movie with lady gaga. i am here doing an interview with an openly hostile network, and trump has canceled all of his interviews. >> that's not true. donald trump just did a town hall with his sworn enemy, univision. let's take a look. >> mr. president, i want to give you the opportunity to win back my vote. after what happened on january 6th, why would i support you? >> i'm just going to make it crystal clear. january 6th was a day of love, all right? love and peace. it's basically woodstock. people were peaceful. no one died, except for the few that did. and so now that i got your vote, let's dance. ♪ it's raining men hallelujah ♪ ♪ it's raining men ♪ [ laughter ] >> does he not listen to the lyrics? >> wow. welcome back to "morning joe." it is monday, october 21st. >> by the way --

>> good to have you with us. >> -- great skit. >> some just ran his sound bites, but that's where we're at. jokes were a little too close to reality. >> yeah, very good. >> really well done. >> yeah. >> really well done. >> keeton, wow. >> yes. jonathan lemire, reverend al sharpton and mark leibovich are still with us. we have a lot to get to. we have member of "the new york times" editorial board, mara gay. pulitzer prize winning author and presidential historian, doris kearns goodwin joins us this morning. it's really good to have you both this morning. we start with the consequential comments made by donald trump over the weekend. not his cursing about kamala harris. not his vulgar description of arnold palmer's genitalia. no, it was his claim that certain democrats are enemies from within. again, specifically attacking

adam schiff and former house speaker nancy pelosi. take a look at what he had to say on fox news yesterday, and then later during a podcast interview. >> the outside people, the so-called enemies, if they're enemies, and they might not be enemies, if you have a smart president, they can be handled. but when you have people investigating my campaign, when you have people -- you know, they spied on my campaign, you understand that. that's been proven. but they spy on your campaign. the russia, russia, russia hoax was all made up. now, it's acknowledged that it was made up. all of these different things. you have the 51 different agents saying it was from russia, and now they all say it wasn't from russia. okay, so we were lying? many, many things. i couldn't just don't have enough time. but what they've done is so terrible. who has ever heard of anything like this? adam shifty schiff, he is a crooked guy, crooked politician,

100%. he'll be a senator now, can you believe it? >> again, he is a political opponent of yours, but he is the enemy? >> no. he is a -- well, of course he is an enemy. these are bad people. we have a lot of bad people. but when you look at shifty schiff and some of the others, yeah, they are to me the enemy from within. i think nancy pelosi is an enemy from within. she lied. she was supposed to protect the capitol. >> we have to protect our country. maybe we should let the other side -- i don't even call them the enemy. i think we have more of an enemy from within than we do from outside. if you have a smart president, they talk about china and russia and everything else. if you have a smart president, they're not going to be the problem. we have a bigger problem from within. they hate it. i noticed today they said, he said the enemy from within. of course, adam schiff, these are bad people. these are sick people. bad people. >> so, doris, to be really

clear, first of all, i think he was saying they spied on his campaign. we're back to the barack obama spying on him, which is a lie. and the russia hoax. he keeps saying it as if there is -- there's nothing there. let's move forward to the heart of the matter this morning as we're two weeks away from a presidential election. we have a presidential candidate, a former president, talking about the other party being, quote, the enemy within. basically enemy combatants. you might as well call them enemy combatants. the enemy within. and says in that interview, we'll play the clip back if "the wall street journal" editorial page didn't hear it, that he doesn't consider the communist chinese, russia, or north korea to be the enemies. they're not the real enemies, he

says. the real enemies are the democrats that he named. please, doris, you're a historian, please tell me we're exaggerating and i can relax over the next two weeks. this campaign is no different than, let's say, bob dole against bill clinton. >> i wish i could help you, but i don't know. i mean, this has been a constant theme in the last weeks. the idea gives him real emotional strength, i think, when he talks about it. talks about it more than almost anything else. i think of the contrast. he mentioned over this weekend, as well, that lincoln was probably the greatest president, even though he disparaged the fact that he didn't settle the civil war before it began. think about what lincoln did at a similar time. obviously, the country was split really in part at that time. we're on the triumph of winning the civil war, but no retribution does he want. on the contrary, some of the radical leaders wanted the

leaders of the confederate to be executed and tried for treason. he said, no, i want no hangings. some of the radicals wanted to have anybody who had been a part of the war to not have their gun to go home with, not to go home to their farm, you know, with their side arms. he said, no, i want to heal. i don't want any retribution. then the famous second inaugural, you know, each side, neither side anticipated this war. neither expected it to last so long. both sides read the same bible. both prayed to the same god. neither's prayers for fully answered. with malice toward none and charity for all, let us bind up the nation's wounds. that's what we need more than anything. these are the qualities we want in a leader, empathy, humility, and resilience, and accountability, and an ambition for something larger than oneself. if we're not going to vote on character in this election, then i will be worried about where we're going down this path. but maybe we've still got a couple weeks out and people are still making up their minds. keep hoping. hoping, joe.

history will help us. >> you know, the thing is, help me out here on his comment from friday. he said lincoln should have settled with the south. he didn't understand why lincoln didn't settle with the south. you read any of the thousands of books written on lincoln. i would recommend, of course, your books. in the lead up to the civil war, "the fiery trial" shows lincoln was constantly trying to compromise with the south. lincoln actually was willing to allow the south to keep slaves in their states but not expand slavery to new states. that wasn't enough for the confederacy, who started the war. what -- what would the

consequences be? it sounds like, sounds like donald trump saying that lincoln should have folded to the confederacy? i don't know. >> you're right, joe. >> what about that? >> you're right, joe. what happened is seven states seceded from the union after lincoln won the election because they wouldn't accept the fact that the republican party ran on the idea that, as you said, you can't extend slavery to the west. that was the one chance for compromise, if he'd leave slavery in the south for a while, but it had to keep going to the west. one other chance when there was pressure for compromise, and it was the summer of 1864. though the victory of gettysburg happened the year before, hundreds of thousands had been killed, people in the north were frustrated. they realized, they thought, the emancipation proclamation, which would free the slaves, had been what was extending the war. the republican big wigs came to lincoln. i wonder if they came to trump

at this moment. they said, you won't win the election in november unless you're willing to compromise. put emancipation off. get the reunion restored. lincoln threw them out of the office, in a sense, and said, i would be damned in time and eternity if i turned my back on the black warriors. it meant he was willing to lose the election in november rather than compromise on what was really the value of ending slavery. as it turned out, atlanta won, we won atlanta in september. the mood of the north changed. he was able to win the election, but with union restored and emancipation secured. again, that's another value we need in a leader. somebody who is willing, at that critical moment, to say, the country matters more. the value matters more. i will even lose this election, but i will not go back on what i'm fighting for. now, to be able to say, well, maybe he was probably the greatest president, but he didn't do what i would do. i would have settled the war. i would have settled ukraine. i would have settled the middle east. this goes back to what he said early on, i am the one.

i am the only one that can do these things. that's just history that will tell him this is not true. if only he'd read more history like your truman. i was thinking of truman, the fact he didn't go to college but had hundreds of history books he had read. he would know his history of the civil war. >> mara, to boris' point, trump says how he'd settle the war in ukraine, give putin what he wants. the comments about lincoln, the idea of settling the civil war are so illuminating into how he thinks and how he works. and it's just so insulting. that's too mild of a word in terms of how he feels the sacrifice that black americans have made for generations. >> you know, despite the fact that he says idiotic things all the time, i'm actually not convinced that donald trump is stupid. this is a man who is fairly well educated. he may not be very well-read,

but i think my suspicion is he knows very well, in fact, that the suggestion that lincoln should have made some deal on the civil war would have included keeping slavery in the united states. and i do believe that this is, in part, an attempt to say, emancipation isn't very important. the legacy that really is important, the legacy of the civil war, that's the second founding, as it's called, of this country. that is where we decided that democracy would include everybody, would grow to include everybody. not just land-holding white men. i think there is something very dark for that reason in these comments. that anything can be traded away. anything is for sale in donald trump's america. citizenship, human rights, women's rights, and just democracy itself.

and this is a man who sees the democracy that we all love and live in as something to make money for himself, for his own profit. and the idea that we would even have lincoln's name in his mouth is upsetting in this way. ultimately, had abraham lincoln actually made some kind of deal, it would have included keeping slavery in the united states. abraham lincoln chose not to make that deal, not only out of the moral disgust he had for slavery at that moment, according to all the scholars, but with an understanding that a country that included slavery would never be a true democracy. and we have him to thank for that. i think the fact that donald trump is willing to sell away that history, that sacrifice, it's chilling. chilling. >> i think, also, that we must deal with the fact that slavery

in the united states was in the context of race. you were black. you were a slave. for donald trump to be now two weeks before the election, where he's saying blacks ought to vote for him, and black men are coming his way, to say that lincoln should have made a deal to keep you guys slaves, i think is a very telling statement. particularly to those that are saying, well, he's going to do better with black men. well, black men that he's supposed to be doing better than, and i don't know that that's true, but some polling may suggest that, ought to deal with the fact that he is saying it would have been all right if lincoln kept some of you slaves based on race. it's the same guy that has a history of racial discrimination in the central park five. also, i think it is very telling that he said out loud his true feelings. can you imagine somebody saying that about any other group?

women, any other racial group. it's supposed to be something he flippantly said about us, and we are not supposed to understand how offensive that is because our forefathers, my great grandfather was a slave. this is nothing that is not really something very basic to our very nature as people that were raised knowing the history of this country. meanwhile, amidst all of this, kamala harris remained focused on abortion rights during a campaign stop in georgia. the vice president was also in michigan. she held a rally in atlanta on saturday. he was joined by r&b singer usher on the stage. also, by the way, more than a million georgians have already cast their votes and shattered records of in-person voting. during some of her speeches, kamala harris blamed donald trump, rightly so, for the

abortion restrictions that we're seeing across the country that are wreaking havoc on women's health care and endangering the lives of women and causing trauma and physical cruelty toward their bodies because they're being denied the care they need. she pointed to that. here's what she told you, rev, when you brought up to the vice president the vulgar comments made. also, we're following it up with comments from georgia. >> the american people deserve so much better. that's how i come at it. to your point, the president of the united states must set a standard, not only for our nation, but understanding the standard that we as a nation must set for the world. you know, we representing the united states of america walk into rooms around the world with the earned and self-appointed authority to talk about the

importance of democracy, rule of law, and have been thought of as a role model. imperfect though we may be, but a role model about what it means to be committed to certain standards. including international rules and norms, but also standards of decorum. and what you see in my opponent, a former president of the united states, really is -- it demeans the office. i have said, and i'm very clear about this, donald trump should never again stand behind the seal of the president of the united states. he has not earned the right. he's not earned the right. >> still refuses to take accountability, to take any accountability, for the pain and the suffering he has caused. or even just to acknowledge the pain and suffering that has actually happened. in a fox town hall earlier this week, he even mocked amber's

family for sharing their story. play the clip. >> mayor bottoms and amber thurmond's family have come out on a press call. they're doing a pre-buttle to our town hall right now. >> that's nice. >> yeah? >> we'll get better ratings, i promise. >> here's the thing, here's the thing, here's the thing. a grieving family, a grieving family sharing the memory of their daughter with our nation. where is the compassion? you know, part of what's wrong with what's been happening in this so-called trump era is that there's this backward notion that, somehow, the measure of the strength of a leader is based on who you beat down instead of what we know, which is that the real measure of the strength of a leader is based on who you lift up. [ applause ]

it's based on who you lift up. and what we see continually from donald trump is exactly what that clip shows. he belittles their sorrow, making it about himself and his television ratings. it is cruel. the obamas are hitting campaign trail in the closing days of the 2024 election. former first lady michelle obama will campaign with vice president harris in michigan next saturday for a get out the vote rally. meanwhile, former president obama held a rally in arizona on friday where he contrasted former president trump with the late senator, john mccain. >> being here in tucson, i'm thinking about my friend, john mccain. [ applause ] now, i don't want to

overromanticize our relationship. you know, john was conservative, to put it mildly. ran against me in 2008. talked about me on the campaign trail. but you know what? he understood that some values transcend partisanship. he believed in hearing the views of other people. he didn't demonize his political opponents. i think about this a lot because it's so different from what we see right now out of the republican nominee. increasingly, the entire party as just decided it's okay. one of the most disturbing things about this election and donald trump's rise in power is

how we seem to have set aside the values that people like a john mccain stood for. values we were taught. >> you know, it's fascinating, mark leibovich, seeing barack obama talking about john mccain. it was a tough race. every presidential race is a tough race. but he's going back to that moment where john mccain, you know, pushed back on a woman who was going after obama and saying some things that were not true about the president. then the presidential candidate. senator obama. called her out. called her out. here we are not so long, not so many years later, and you have the republican presidential nominee continually calling democratic opponents the enemy

from within. >> yeah, i mean, what's amazing about the way barack obama talked about it, but i think the larger stain on our history that we're living through right now is trump obviously and what he has stood for, what he has gotten away with, but also the entire party. basically, they all, to a person, know better. it's not like donald trump is hiding the ball here. it is all out in the open. i mean, this is an election where people, i think, should know exactly what they are voting for and voting against. the idea that donald trump has operated within a permission structure of one of our two major parties to a point where there is just a consequence-free environment for him to operate in is one of the most appalling, i think, takeaways from this era. obviously, one that portends ominously in case he wins because there's not going to be

a check and balance from his own party. they'll operate from a platform where he can do whatever he wants. essentially, i mean, these are people who i think will, hopefully, you know, live under a very, very damning verdict of history, if they care about that. also, i mean, it speaks to what they are going to have to come back from or what the party will have to come back from, which will be a complete rebuild if trump loses. otherwise, it'll be more of the same and probably worse. >> "the atlantic's" mark leibovich, thank you very much. his piece, "mike pence is haunting this election," is online now. take a look at that. doris kearns goodwin, i'd like to close out this block by asking you for a civics lesson. for any of those in this democracy that we live in who might have just gotten very comfortable with all the freedoms that we have, at least women have had 50 years of

freedoms taken away, but the ones we still have, can you please talk about civic responsibility as we count down two weeks to election day? >> yeah. i mean, i think the most important right now is to think about a president sets an example for the country. it's what teddy roosevelt said was the most important responsibility. think about our responsibility as parents. would we want our children to be calling other people names, to be doing all the denigration that we have? would we want our friends, our neighbors to not make promises they couldn't keep? think about what you want in a person that you care about. you want empathy. you want humility. you want resilience. you want accountability. you want kindness. you want compassion. you want an ambition for something larger than themselves. if we put that as the answer for the kind of leader we want, the leaders who have taken us through the civil war, the great depression, world war ii, then let history and civics tell us, those are the qualities those leaders had, and we have to use the qualities. not just what they say they're

going to do but who they are. if we look at that, the civics will teach us the right direction to move. it's got to do with character. i know people say character doesn't matter, tax cuts matter, other things matter. character is at the core of this right now, more than anything else. it's on the line in this election. >> pulitzer prize winning author and presidential historian, doris kearns goodwin, thank you very much for coming on this morning. coming up, one of our next guests is breaking down the very real scenario where donald trump loses in november and takes power anyway. that conversation is straight ahead on "morning joe."

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promise of america. [ applause ] right? right. and the extraordinary, great congressman john lewis reminded us that democracy is not a state. it is an act. it is an act. so, georgia, now is our time to act. the baton is in our hands. >> that was more from vice president harris speaking in atlanta on saturday. joining us now, politics reporter for semifor, dave weigel. "no matter who wins, the u.s. is moving to the right." >> dave, fascinating article. especially the focus on

immigration. you point out that in 2020, in a reaction to some of donald trump's more severe immigration policies, that gallup recorded an all-time high for the level of americans who wanted more immigrants in america. four years later, you say those numbers have dropped. the lowest point since after the weeks following 9/11. talk about that change and other changes and about how this conservative is moving center right. >> the change starts with the policy changes that the biden/harris administration implemented. these have been overstated in some ways by republicans, but, yes, they did reverse a lot of trump policies. trump passed on an immigration system that was frozen in a couple ways because of covid. you remember rule 42. things were put in place to make it easier to remove asylum seekers, people crossing the

border and being released into the country. that's where the backlash began. if you are in any state listening to campaign ads or listening to candidates, you had four years of republicans tying almost every issue to immigration, to the quote, unquote, open border. it is very striking in wisconsin. prices are blamed on immigration. threats to social security and medicare are blamed on immigration. crime is blamed on immigration. that matters. there are hundreds of billions of dollars flowing into people's living rooms and mailboxes tying everything to this. even though trump is running in 2020, it wasn't entirely on immigration. there were other topics. it's been monomaniacal by republicans this cycle. >> that is a theme. you're exactly right. sounds a bit like orban out of hungary. let's stick with wisconsin. the race seems to close in wisconsin. you know, tim russert famously said in 2000, it was about florida, florida, florida.

now, it seems that it's -- well, obviously wisconsin, pennsylvania, and michigan. but wisconsin, everybody it seems you talk to on both sides say it's just too close. what are you picking up there? any trend lines? >> well, it's been close all year. only thing that's moved in the last couple weeks is the senate race between tammy baldwin and republican eric hubvy. republicans are trying to use the same messaging up and down the ballot. trump's floor here is probably 48.5%, 49%. nothing has budged. the vice president and liz cheney are going to be in the milwaukee suburbs today, an area of the state that is very conservative. it has been moving left. that is the one part of the state they do see moving. they see suburbanites who never liked trump, people who were moving away from the party under trump, people who voted in big

numbers for the governor in 2022, they see them as movable. the rest of the state is not very movable. i've been coming here for work since 2010. coming for elections trump has been involved in, for each one. very little has changed. i do see more signs of visible excitement for harris in people's lawns, everywhere from the suburbs to rural areas where democrats hang on. but nothing has gone through, and the state's economy is solid. the concerns about gas and prices has declined. there is a locked in republican vote, stronger in rural areas than it was eight years ago, that sees a fixable set of american problems if trump is restored and is able to restore his immigration policies. democrats also are trying to turn out -- this has been a problem every two years. in the city of milwaukee, black voters have been harder to motivate since obama left office.

multiple groups working on that this time. that's not a new problem either. the thing in wisconsin, it's not like in arizona or georgia, where people are moving in and changing the electorate. it's not budging. i say hundreds of millions of campaign dollars. if you watch tv, it's relentless. >> dave weigel, a new piece in "politico" entitled "the very real scenario where trump loses and takes power anyway." it breaks down what could happen next month if donald trump doesn't win. it reads, in part, quote, what trump will do first is what he's already done, stoking deep, unfounded doubts about the integrity of the election. trump has spent weeks promoting unsupported claims of mass voter fraud by democrats, suggesting they're illegally registering non-citizens to vote and

soliciting unlawful votes from foreigners. joining us now, one of the authors of the piece, senior legal affairs reporter at "politico," kyle cheney. thanks for joining us. can you tell us more about the potential for that to happen? >> sure. what we wanted to look at is, look, this is not 2020. donald trump is not president. his path to subvert an election he loses is very different this time around than it was four years ago. we wanted to talk to everyone we possibly could to say, is there a path if donald trump loses for him to try to take power? what we learned is essentially the answer is question. it'd be way more extreme and require way more help from republicans in power, in elected office, state legislatures and in congress, but it's there. to a person, everyone thought if trump loses, he, number one, could declare victory, and, two, he is more motivated than ever. he knows if he doesn't prevail in this election, he has an

avalanche of criminal cases waiting for him on the other side of that. in the scenario he loses, people expect him to at least press on all the levers he can, which, again, are fewer in number but still there. >> kyle, it's a great point. it's sort of been lost to the news cycle that donald trump stands to be criminally sentenced in a couple of weeks here in new york. obviously, were he to lose, the federal investigations could be revived. let's talk about your story here, so important, and glad it is getting attention in recent days. what are some steps that are already under way? how has this path already begun for trump with republican help where he could try to steal it? >> sure. i mean, this is actually one area that's similar to 2020. it was this idea that you have to convince as many people as possible, especially on his side, that the election is -- you can't trust the results of the election. the election integrity is in doubt. that is of a piece of what we saw in 2020. the idea is i think someone mentioned the word permission structure earlier in a different context.

create a permission structure for republicans who are in power, to hold the levels where trump is not, to take steps they may not ordinarily take. have state legislatures appoint alternate electors or have members of congress resist binding themselves to federal election laws that would normally prevent, you know, the sort of accepting alternate slates of electors. again, the precondition is convince as many people as possible you can't trust the results and everything and it goes from there. >> it's mara gay of "the new york times." wondering if you have any sense of the individual people who would be required to actually be complicit with donald trump in this kind of a scheme. obviously, it's a wide-ranging group of people, but, you know, four years ago, it was people in those positions who really stood up to the former president. can we expect you see that?

>> what made this story very hard to report is, certainly, it's been well-known that a lot of the people who did stand in donald trump's way four years ago are gone. they've retired. they've been defeated. people at state county boards, election boards, much more compliant and willing to be aligned with donald trump. they may not be the key people that matter. the one, to be honest, that matters the most is the speaker. that's speaker johnson at the moment. a lot of this plays out after the election, in fact, after the new congress takes place, the next january 6th will be with the next congress. if democrats take the house, donald trump's path to overturning an election he loses are pretty much closed. he needs congress to step in at the january 6th session to try to subvert any election he loses. so we don't actually know, it's very hard to prepare for this because you don't know, if republicans hold the house, expand their margin? again, if democrats take the house, it's pretty much a moot

point. >> senior legal affairs reporter at "politico," kyle cheney, thank you so much for your reporting this morning. we appreciate it. rev, i want to show a little more from your interview with the vice president over the weekend. she had a jam-packed weekend. especially talking to you. here she is talking about support from black men in america. take a look. >> do you think some of the resistance of some men, black and white, is misogynist? and are you proud to see that most americans being polled have no problem supporting a woman at all? i'm one that lived through these campaigns. >> i have an emotional reaction to you raising the point. it's on broad shoulders i stand and so many of us stand. we have come a long way, to your point, and on your specific

point about including the fact that i have the support of countless black men who are in elected positions. including, just this afternoon, two church visits today with the mayor of atlanta. that being said, i think that you are absolutely right. there is this narrative about what kind of support we are receiving from black men, that it's just not panning out in reality, in terms of when i go to, last night, atlanta, and had, i think, 10,000 people at a rally. >> rev, the campaign has so much to do in making the case from the broad point of view, looking at this race. talk about the relevance of the church visits, of what she had to say there, and what's your message to black men? >> i think the relevance of her going to the churches are the fact that a lot of our political

analysts really don't realize that when you go to the black churches, don't are your prime black voters. usually, people that go to church, family oriented and will vote. it's very important that she goes to the base that is going to vote, as she tries to expand and get new voters and those that don't go to traditional places. i think that as she addresses the issue of black men, i've been on this nonpartisan bus tour, i've not heard the degree of black men that is being, in many ways, projected, that are against her. there is some. but there were some when president obama ran, saying he's not black enough. i'm hearing an undercurrent but nothing to the level that is being raised. i think that some of them complaining are just outright misogynist, which is why i brought it up to her. i heard it at 17 years old

working in shirley chism's campaign. it is good she addresses it. >> all right. rev, thanks for that. we want to take a moment to continue to cover the cleanup on the recovery efforts from hurricane helene, which decimated parts of western north carolina with deadly flooding and landslides. fema has been working nonstop to help residents there recover. in hard hit mccomb county, including the city of asheville, fema provided $36 million in assistance to 37,000 approved applicants. that funding helping to repair homes, address essential needs, and continue the recovery effort. joining us now to asheville with an update, fema administrator deanne criswell. madam administrator, first, bring us up to date on the recovery effort and what fema is

doing. are there still concerns about disinformation being spread from the trump campaign and others? >> good morning, mika. so we are well under way on recovery, and we are starting to see real progress across communities. i've been with governor cooper to many communities and seen the work they're doing to help these people who have been hit so hard recover. i think as you said, we've already got over $130 million across the state of north carolina directly to people. we have got $1.4 billion in our recovery projects, in helping these communities start to rebuild. this is just the beginning. we're going to continue to do more. we have disaster recovery centers set up across the state where people can go and talk to somebody and really help them through. we want to make sure everybody gets what they're eligible for. >> mm-hmm. i understand candidate donald trump is going to be there this

afternoon. given there was so much disinformation fema had to navigate through, for people being misled through the response, it was actually hurting people already hurt by a devastating weather event, what are you going to do? any concerns about more disinformation during this time of tremendous need for the people of asheville and surrounding towns and counties? >> mika, when i'm talking to people in these communities, they're so grateful for everything we have done. i've heard them say, this is not who we are. the misinformation being spread about their community is hurting their people, too, and making them feel bad. they said, we want you here. we need you here. we're grateful for you being by our side since day one. i hope that, you know, what the former president sees today is there are thousands of federal responders across the family

here helping people, away from their families and homes, doing what they know they need to do to help these people on the road to recovery. i want the message to stay on them, on making sure we're getting them everything they need. >> fema administrator deanne criswell, thank you very well. we appreciate it. we know you're there in asheville. coming up, democratic senator elizabeth warren will join us from the battleground state of wisconsin. where vice president harris is set to hold a rally. "morning joe" will be right back. now that you're eligible for medicare, it's time to take advantage of everything medicare has to offer, and much more. with a humana medicare advantage plan. humana has plans that can enhance your life in so many ways. it starts with peace of mind. humana's medicare advantage plans offer $0 or low monthly plan

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welcome back to "morning joe." a little before 8:00 on the east coast. beautiful shot of the u.s. capitol. the medicare enrollment period is open now through december 7th. for the first time in the program's history, out of pocket prescription drug costs will be capped at $2,000 a year. enrolles will also have the option for the first time to spread their out of pocket drug costs across the calendar year instead of having to pay all at once. both of these changes were provisions in the inflation reduction act, which passed

after vice president harris cast a tiebreaking vote in the senate and then president joe biden signed into law back in 2022. joining us now, nbc news medical contributor dr. vin gupta. great to see you again. tell us why that change right there matters. >> jonathan, we don't talk enough about open enrollment but this is a period, here in the fall, where people can choose, if you're on medicare, you can choose the plan best for your needs. sometimes people's health care conditions change. big deal, though, this is credit to the biden/harris administration. this is something that has been decades in the making but this $2,000 out of pocket maximum on your drug spend if you're a part d enrollee, that covers your medicare, there's that out of pocket maximum now. very constant with the insulin cap, $35 on your insulin needs, where you can spread out the cost over the course of the year, these are big savings potentially for patients on medicare and something we really

need to talk about as open enrollment sets in. >> younger americans, there's a lot of focus on them in the election too, but there's new research coming out that's showing out they're getting a lot of anxiety from these extreme weather events. aren't we all, right? of course, it's affecting young people. can you talk about that and how do you measure that anxiety, tying it to these events? >> the circle of life, we're talking utmedicare and the younger generations and climate. to me, there's some silver linings here. there's a study now talking about something we have been talking about more, the impact of extreme weather events on younger generations. what we're seeing is regardless of political affiliation, if you're a young american and you're a democrat, you're a young american and you're republican, you're worried about what you're seeing, the air you're breathing, and they want action. 94% of democrats, 74% of republicans say government needs to do something about climate. we can't have something different every four years.

number two, something that was released on friday showed that we need to start talking about the health impacts of climate change. sometimes people roll their eyes when they hear the phrase climate change. if we focus on the health impacts, big sur vas show this is what resonates with people, can persuade voters because they feel the extreme heat on their skin, they're breathing in the toxic air into their lungs and that's what resonates. >> that anxiety could lead to high blood pressure. hypertension is something you wanted to talk about as being such a leading risk factor yet so many americans afflicted with it don't even know they have it. >> this is not a sexy topic, but it's the leading factor for death across the united states, has been the case for decades. what the study found in one of the leading journals in america found last week that 120 million adult americans have high blood pressure. 90 million have uncontrolled high blood pressure.

60 million don't even know they have it. really the reason here is we don't have great screening tools. this is a call to all your viewers here, actionable call, 100 million people have access to health care benefits. have access to a provider, primary care provider. they just don't make an appointment. so this is a call. we're talking about open enrollment. optimizing your health care benefits. make an appointment with a primary care provider because this is the leading risk factor for death across the country, heart attack, stroke, you name it. >> dr. vin gupta, i'm sure we'll speak to you again as we barrel into the fall, winter, flu and covid seasons. thank you for joining us this morning. up next here, we move back to politics with a look at donald trump's dangerous rhetoric. continuously calling top democrats the enemy from within. we'll play for you trump's comments and show you how speaker mike johnson responded when he was pressed several times about those dangerous remarks. we're back in just two minutes.

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their very liberal rates on idle cash. they would descend into chaos. let's go boys. the way that i approach work, post fatherhood, has really been trying to understand the generation

that we're building devices for. here in the comcast family, we're building an integrated in-home wifi solution for millions of families, like my own. connectivity is a big part of my boys' lives. it brings people together in meaningful ways. ♪ ♪ we know in terms of the parable of the good samaritan that we have learned and should live a life where in the face of a stranger we see a neighbor. but that's not what we see on the other side of this equation in this election. it is constantly about berating people and belittling people and name calling. >> so you have to tell kamala

harris that you have had enough, that you just can't take it anymore. we can't stand you. you're a [ bleep ] vice president. >> i have to say, there is so much at stake right now. and when we think about how we have learned and have understood and lived the knowledge that ours is a loving god, and that we understand that for us to do good works, it means to do it in the spirit of understanding, that our strength is not based on who we beat down as some would try and suggest, our strength is based on who we lift up. and that spirit is very much at stake in these next 16 days. >> arnold palmer was all man. i say that in all due respect to women, and i love women. but this guy, this guy -- this is a guy that was all man.

this man was strong and tough. and i refuse to say it, but when he took showers with the other pros, they came out of there, they said oh, my god. that's unbelievable. >> all right. extremely contrasting focuses over the weekend from the two main presidential candidates, now 15 days, 15, until the election. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it's monday, october 21st. with us, we have the host of way too early, jonathan lemire, president of the national action network and host of msnbc's "politics nation," reverend al sharpton, nbc news and msnbc political analyst, former u.s. senator claire mccaskill is with us, staff writer at the atlantic mark leibovich joins us, and rogers dhar and the american presidency at vanderbilt university, historian jon

meacham. it's good to have you all with us this morning. >> great to have everybody with us today. >> just over two weeks out. >> you know, i've been involved in politics now for 30 years. most of my adult life. and so at this point, i'm not surprised by much, and certainly not shocked by much. the level of cynicism, though, coming this morning from the "wall street journal" editorial page in light of comments that donald trump has been making really is shocking. jon meacham, go to you and then we'll go through all the details. but the journal's editorial the day after donald trump said that democrats allied against him are, quote, the enemy from within on a day after donald

trump said that january 6th attack on the u.s. capitol was, quote, a beautiful thing, after he said that nancy pelosi and adam schiff were, quote, bad people who threatened democracy, and were the enemy within, and then howie curts said will you at least say you're not going to punish or prosecute your political opponents, trump replied, excuse me? that's what they're doing to me. in a separate fox news interview, on october 13th, trump said that his foes, quote, could very easily be handled by the national guard if really necessary by the military. he repeated the line about the enemy within days later during a fox news town hall event. you call americans who don't support you, quote, the enemy within. and so this morning, i woke up

expecting because there are times that the "wall street journal" editorial page checks mr. trump at his worst instincts. instead, they talk about the democrats' fascism meme and say that basically democrats are the real national socialists. and that what they have done is far worse than anything donald trump has done. joe biden's loan forgiveness, stop me if you have heard this before, was more law breaking than anything that donald trump has ever done. and this entire editorial, they fail to mention one time january 6th. instead, saying the worst thing donald trump has ever done is when he tried to use money to build a wall that wasn't approved by congress. i really, again, very rarely am i left without adequate words to

explain what's going on here. but i was shocked enough yesterday that donald trump continued calling democrats, quote, the enemy within, which of course is a precursor to him getting elected, calling them enemy combatants and being able to lock them up and have military tribunals. and they will dismiss this perhaps, but they have never heard language like this before. and republicans have been saying, oh, no, he doesn't mean that. he's talking about illegal immigrants. and donald trump keeps saying no, i'm not talking about illegal immigrants. i'm talking about democrats being, quote, the enemy within. let me say that again. and tell me if you have heard this before by a major party

candidate. calling his political opponents, quote, the enemy within. worse than putin, worse than xi, may not be our enemies, worse than kim jong-un. domestic political rivals, the enemy within. and they're calling this a meme, which i don't know, john. i just don't know where that puts us. i really don't know where that puts us as a country because i have never heard any politician call his opponents the enemy within and say they're going -- he's going after them. >> we have been to this -- we haven't been to this particular place in america before. and i don't know often say that.

it worries me to say that. but if we don't have that recognition, if we don't have, and this is going to sound grand, but if we don't have the moral and imaginative ability and capacity to recognize what is in front of our eyes and what we can hear with our ears, then the central thesis, the central thesis of the american republic, if you want to go back to george washington's farewell address, was that this republic cannot exist without the moral and religious principle of a people. and leave out, if you want to, leave out the religious part for a minute and let's talk about the moral part. it's not a sermon, not a sunday school lesson. it's moral in the sense of, i care about how things are, not

just for me but for other people. it's a pretty baseline thing. i'm not even saying you have to make it the most important thing. but if you let the will to power, an innate human drama to try to dominate other people, which is an absolutely fundamental human impulse, the point of the united states was that we were going to manage that impulse. we were actually going to make out of many one. and you know, joe, you and i have talked about this before. the "wall street journal" editorial page is enormously influential among people who think of themselves and usually are very accomplished, very often economically successful, conservative americans. and you and i have joked in the past, you could write for a lot

of people we know, you could put your grocery list in "wall street journal" font and they would go, this is really profound. i think edmund burke said this about going to the dry cleaners. it has that kind of capacity. that kind of reach. and what worries me to death nearly is either the kinds of republicans that we know and grew up with, either really believe this, they really believe that there's kind of a both sides thing, which is bad enough, and what's even a little worse is they don't really believe it, but because they are not sufficiently troubled by what the former president represents, they're looking for anything they can tell themselves to justify doing something that i think in their hearts they know is wrong. >> well, they do. and again, the comparisons, and you have heard it, and i have

heard it, people saying, well, january 6th was really not much. and my gosh, did you see what joe biden tried to do? >> insane. >> by forgiving student loan debt, which of course -- >> he wants to forgive this. >> which of course, was turned over, parts of it, by the united states supreme court. and joe biden didn't have his people attack the capitol. again, this right here, not even mentioned in today's, quote, fascist meme editorial. but yesterday, again, the enemy within, the enemy within, the enemy within. we keep hearing it, and who is the left-wing radical the "wall street journal" points to as being the most extreme in her hyperbole? one anne applebaum, who devoted her early life to fighting against the soviet union, whose

entire life has been dedicated to calling out soviet union's evils, when people on the left tried to whitewash their evils in the '40s and '50s and beyond. the same anne applebaum who continues to try to talk about the challenge of totalitarianism and authoritarianism for the "wall street journal" editorial, she's the radical leftist. see, doesn't that tell you something? me, somebody who is far more conservative than donald trump, are 99% of the republicans in congress, conservative, by the way, we used to talk about being conservative like balancing budgets, pushing back against russian aggression like reagan did. like reagan conservatives. far more conservative than anybody in congress i have seen over the past eight years.

far more conservative on those basic structures of what we grew up knowing conservatism is, and anne applebaum is the person here called out as being the radical leftist. it's revealing, isn't it? and here, somebody with a 95% conservative lifetime record in congress, we're the leftists? we're the, quote, sick puppies which donald trump said yesterday when another fox news interviewer said joe scarborough said you once said your people said they were going to go after "morning joe." and instead of just playing the tape of kash patel saying that, and steve bannon saying that, giving him that evidence, again, it's smoke and mirrors. again, i'm concerned about this because it's shameful, and it

doesn't call out authoritarian language, but make no mistake, the pace is quickening, and there is a reason he is saying every day democrats are the enemy within. democrats are the enemy within. pelosi and schiff, and all of these people. this -- they know, everybody knows. this is unprecedented. >> the first time around, it was the abortion meme, and we'll get to that, how that parallels perfectly. anne applebaum has a piece coming out in the atlantic this week. we'll have her on later on this week. i want to make that parallel in a moment and go to claire. first, let's show you the latest comments. here's former president donald trump standing by his claim that certain democrats are enemies from within. again, specifically attacking congressman adam schiff and former house speaker nancy pelosi. take a look at what he had to

say on fox news yesterday, and later, during a podcast interview. >> the outside people, the so-called enemies, if they're enemies and they might not be enemies, if you have a smart president, they can be handled. but when you have people investigating my campaign, when you have people, you know, they spied on my campaign. you understand that. that's been proven. but they spy on your campaign. the russia, russia, russia hoax was all made up, and now it's acknowledged it was made up. all of these different things, you have the 51 different agents saying it was from russia, and now they all say it wasn't from russia. okay, so we were lying. many other things. i could go on. you don't have enough time. but what they have done is so terrible. who has ever heard of anything like this? adam shifty schiff, he's a crooked guy. 100%, he's going to be a senator now, can you believe it?

again. >> he's a political opponent of yours. >> of course he's an enemy. he's an enemy. these are bad people. we have a lot of bad people. but when you look at shifty schiff and some of the others, yeah, they are, to me, the enemy from within. i think nancy pelosi is an enemy from within. she lied. she was supposed to protect the capitol. >> we have to protect our country, and maybe we should let the other side, i don't even call them the enemy, i think we have more of an enemy from within than from outside. if you have a smart president, they talk about china and russia and everything else. if you have a smart president, they're not going to be the problem. we have a bigger problem from within. they hate it. i noticed today, they said he said the enemy within. of course, adam schiff, these are bad people, sick people and bad people. >> house speaker mike johnson was asked in a cnn interview about trump's enemy from within remarks. and take a look at how that

exchange played out. >> in multiple interviews this week, donald trump repeatedly referred to prominent democrats and others on the left in the united states, american citizens, as quote, the enemy from within, unquote, and he suggested as president he would want to use the national guard or military against them. let me play some of that for our viewers. >> the bigger problem are the people from within. we have some very bad people. we have sick people, radical left lunatics. and i think they're -- and it should be very easily handled by if necessary by national guard or if really necessary by the military. because they can't let that happen. >> one of the first things you did when you joined congress was to create the honor and civility caucus. does wanting to use the military against political opponents, would that pass muster with the civility caucus? >> jake, you know that's not

what he's talking about there. what he's talking about marauding gangs of dangerous, violent people destroying public property. >> no, here's what he said when asked about it the next day. >> it is the enemy from within and they're very dangerous. they're marxist and communists and fascists. i use a guy like adam schiff. they made up the russia, russia hoax. it took two years to solve the problem. absolutely nothing was done wrong, et cetera. they're dangerous for our country. we have china, we have russia, we have all these countries. if you have a smart president, they can all be handled. the more difficult are, you know, the pelosis, these people, they're so sick. and they're so evil. >> that's what he's talking about, using the u.s. military against not marauding gangs of venezuelans. adam schiff, nancy pelosi. if a democratic presidential candidate said that you and your wife were evil and that the military should be used against you, i would say that's

disgusting. >> well, thank you. and some have said that about us because they don't like my politics. i did not hear president trump in the clip saying he would sic the military on adam schiff. you have two different clips and two different contexts. what president trump is talking about is they have been attacking him and maligning him from the day he came down the golden escalator. in 2015, 2016, that's when this began. he's been the most attacked, maligned political figure in u.s. history. they tried to kill him twice in the last few months. >> who is they? >> this is real. he feels that acutely. you would too if you were under attack like he was. >> who is they? >> iran, who has assassination attempts out against him. crazy dangerous people in the country -- >> adam schiff and nancy pelosi are not trying to assassinate donald trump. there's this conflation. >> they're not, jake. they're not. no, but the political attacks have been relentless, and they have been baseless. the colleagues in the house say

he must be eliminated. he must be extenguished. >> he's literally talking -- >> no, he's not. >> yes, he is. >> no, he's not. he's talking about using the national guard and the military to keep the peace in our streets. >> don't really understand why speaker mike johnson would like to participate in a cover-up and also quite frankly for republicans out there, this could be you on a bad day. so let me -- >> and they. and they tried -- nancy pelosi. we're talking utnancy pelosi and adam schiff and he shifts into they investigated him. and they tried to kill him. and fortunately, jake said who is they? who is they? >> doing a great job. and you know what, jake had the right clip. it was so easy to have the right clip. anyhow, the point i think we need to look at here is what donald trump has done in the past. what facts do we have to base what we are seeing on?

even though republicans continue to try and detract and i think follow what you have rightfully called the trump apologist playbook and pretend that things that were said weren't said or that he doesn't mean them. here's how he means them. donald trump campaigned in his first campaign against abortion. he said, we gotta get rid of it. he said he's going to overturn roe. he said women should be punished. roe has been overturned, and women are being punished. nobody knows the trump playbook and the fact trump is serious more than women across america. women are paying the price. >> and before the election, what did they say? no, no. trump even said, oh, no, roe is not going to be overturned. >> what he does is he says extremely serious things about using the military to attack his enemies. he means it. but he also on the same day in a particular day, he's use the

word schlonging against harvey weinstein or whatever that makes no sense and there's all aflutter about he uses the word, or arnold palmer's manlihood. he did that, and look, we're talking about it. not that much because we find his obsession with genitalia boring. we think what's interesting here is the fact that he wants to use the military to go against his enemies. now, if you're one of those people who thinks he doesn't mean it or thinks he's joking, let me ask you. what presidential candidate makes that kind of joke? and quite frankly, is not questioned about it many times over. that's not a joke. that's not even close to a joke. that's not even the kind of joke i would make that sometimes lands badly. he's serious. >> what's crazy is glenn youngkin made a fool of himself last week saying oh, no, that's not what he was saying. he's not talking about democrats

being the enemy within. the next day, donald trump said yes it is, and he talked about adam schiff and then he talked about nancy pelosi. then he talked about it on friday. the enemy within. democrats are the enemy within. and saying that xi is not as much of an enemy and putin is not as much of an enemy and kim jong-un, not as much of an enemy or a danger as elected democrats. >> coming up we're going to go live to wisconsin where senator elizabeth warren is campaigning for vice president harris and governor tim walz. what she's hearing from voters there across the key battlegrounds when "morning joe" comes right back. get life insurance," hm. i have a few minutes. i can do that now. oh, that fast? remember that colonial penn ad? i called and i got information.

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i know what the republicans say is, yeah, he talks like a fascist. he would never really do it. he used to say he would put hillary in jail. everything was lock her up. he didn't do it. that's not good enough for me. >> he tried to do it. he wept to two attorney generals, and both of them said we have nothing to bring charges against her on. people don't remember, two weeks before the election in 2020, he was pressuring barr, his attorney general, to arrest joe biden. what drives me crazy is this past week, like, i don't want people to listen to me. i don't want them to listen to you. i want them to listen to what

donald trump says. and this past week, this past week -- this past week, donald trump said that he was going to use the military and the national guard to arrest his political opponents. he was asked if he would back off of that, and he said no. in fact, he doubled down. he talked about nancy pelosi being evil. her husband being evil. schiff being evil. talking about arresting them. he said he was going to execute the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff because he was disloyal to him. he told another chief of staff who was a general, i wish my generals were like hitler's generals. >> it's the new season of the sopranos. it's crazy. it really is. >> but people, you know, you tell people this, and they go, oh, he didn't say that. you show them the clip, then they say, he doesn't mean that. he does mean that. >> that's when they say you have

trump derangement syndrome. i would like to say to my republican friends, it's not deranged to fear this. it's not deranged to find this alarming. >> i said, yeah, we're not saying this. we're not guessing what he's going to do. he's saying this is what i'm going to do. i'm going to get liz cheney in a military tribunal. his people have said they're going to arrest my producers. he said he was going to shut down cbs because he didn't like how they edited a package in "60 minutes." he's out of control. his words. >> that was joe on hbo's real time with bill maher on friday night alongside mark cuban. trump derangement syndrome is what republicans like to do, but to his point, donald trump himself says this. we can spend time talking about his weekend, talking about arnold palmer and his staged photo op at mcdonald's.

he's said now, not once, not twice, dozens of times that he will use the power of the government, if elected again, including in recent days suggesting the military, to go after his political opponents. this is as dangerous as it gets. >> he's not only said it, he has doubled down on it, and people that worked in his administration have talked about how he would operate in that manner. we have to remember, people that were in his cabinet and that were in his circle are saying don't vote for him. this is how he believes this is how he acts. which is a real threat to all of us that have opposed him. you know, i was once stabbed leading a march. i take that seriously. i have called joe and said, you better watch security. because you're dealing with a man who himself faced two assassination attempts. you would think he would be careful about trying to demonize and target people, public

figures that you may disagree with because when people hear that rhetoric, some people can say he's right, they're the enemy and they may do anything. so not only do you have to fear government, you have to fear people that will take things into their own hands, including the people that tried to assassinate him. it raises the likelihood of a dangerous environment, and we should not belittle that in any way on either side of these political debates. >> he's not looking to take down the temperature. he's ramping it up. violence, the threat of violence is part of this. i know federal and local law enforcement officials are deeply concerned they're surrounding this election again, and that's in part because trump has inspired violence previously around january 6th. and one of the potential targets of that violence was his then vice president mike pence. and you just wrote a new piece about how mike pence hovered over this entire election.

>> yeah, no, i mean, mike pence is kind of a living but also the absent example of all this. this is why -- he's kind of an example of kind of politics by the mob. his absence i think speaks volumes in some ways, and he has himself since what happened on january 6th. so mike pence, look, he's kind of a symbol of the moment four years ago almost when donald trump kind of broke free of all consequences. once it was clear that he could get away with that, that the republican party would indulge that, that with help from any number of republicans in the house and the senate and the supreme court, even, that pretty much anything was possible. and the fact that mike pence has kind of been cowed into silence and is somewhat really off the stage is i think itself emblematic of donald trump's ability not only to perpetrate a really, really, you know, just

un-american history, but also to erase it from the fact that it can be part of any kind of conversation going forward. so i wanted to look at mike pence and his sort of specter over the campaign and what it could bode for the future. >> coming up, the closing message from the harris campaign. we'll speak with the vice president's communications director when "morning joe" comes right back. have you ever considered getting a walk-in tub? well, look no further! safe step's best offer, just got better! now, when you purchase your brand new safe step walk-in tub, you'll receive a free shower package. yes, a free shower package!

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dustin hopkins does the honors. off and running here in cleveland. charlie jones going to play. a half step inside his own end zone and he's got a seam. jones, hopkins unable to stop him. jones, one man.

>> inside the 5 and he catches it. makes a beeline pass. he's got some open space. past the 40. gets past the punter. inside the 40. parker washington is going to go all the way for a touchdown as he does -- >> across the field. >> here's love. to the end zone. diving catch. >> lined up as the fullback. off the right. here's gibbs. good run. good move. there he goes. needs a block. he's in. >> hurts for a.j. brown. he's got it. he's in. >> here we go on third down. smith steps up. takes that shot to the end zone. it is metcalf. >> he's still on his feet. komen admidfield trying to win a

foot race. >> third and nine for carolina. dalton on the move. he tried to throw it to his own man. he threw it to the other team. intercepted by fowler, and he's going to go. touchdown. >> madison, a block. that's a loose ball. picked up. that is a touchdown. >> pressure, mahomes senses it. steps away. gets around warner. he's still inbounds. patrick mahomes racing to the end zone. he's out of bounds. >> wow. what a week. what a week. i was -- let's look at some of the plays from the winning teams in the nfl. host of pablo torre finds out. pablo, we'll get to the

extraordinary game you got to see yesterday. how exciting. let's get some of the junk out of the way first. all right, some of the cellar dwellers. the panthers, watching the carolina panthers play reminds me of what john mccay, the coach of the hapless buccaneers who went 0-14 his first year said when they asked about his team. he goes, well, we're actually much worse than our record would indicate. when i see the panthers, it's the same thing. they're absolutely awful. i don't want to bring up three other teams and just talk about underperforming. right now, who is the biggest disappointment? is it the browns who are simply horrid? the cowboys or the jets who were supposed to be -- and you look for it, one of the better teams top to bottom, which of those three teams have disappointed the most? >> yeah, joe. hello from minneapolis. when you said i want to get the junk out of the way, i thought

maybe you wanted to start with arnold palmer talk. but no, we digress. we'll get in fact to the new york jets which feels like they have bit hit for decades. instead, this week, last night, let's keep in mind what happened. the browns are bad, the panthers are bad, yes, but the jets with aaron rodgers. what they have been doing is making a series of moves that continue to go all in on the premise that quarterback, this conspiracist quarterback who was once arguably one of the two greatest quarterbacks of a generation, deserves to have say over what happens on this football team. they got dovonte adams, his preferred wide receiver target. they got him and then they go and play the steelers. and by the way, in pittsburgh, they bench your guy justin fields, they bring russell wilson back, and that steeler cobbled together with tape and glue and a little spit, they destroyed the jets. i mean, this is a disaster. >> you know, i am -- i have always -- i have cheered for

russ wilson because i thought he was treated terribly in denver, and fields as well. and as much as i wanted russ to get a chance, i couldn't believe they took out fields who, you know, taking a 4-2 record, but my gosh, russ wilson just looked great, didn't he? >> yeah, the second half. you start off as you do when you replace justin fields who was good, as you point out, you start off by being booed if you're russell wilson. that happened early on. by the second half, again, just the juxtaposition, the contrast of aaron rodgers. russell wilson got better as the game went on. >> coming up, the presidential election is a billion dollar business for the betting markets, but a surge of mysterious new wagers is raising speculation that someone is trying to move the needle, possibly, from overseas. cnbc's andrew ross sorkin explains that straight ahead on "morning joe." oe."

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san francisco's leadership is failing us. that's why mark farrell is endorsing prop d. because we need to tackle our drug and homelessness crisis just like mark did as our interim mayor. mark farrell endorsing prop d, to bring the changes we need for the city we love.

san francisco's leadership is failing us. that's why mark farrell is endorsing prop d. because we need to tackle our drug and homelessness crisis just like mark did as our interim mayor. mark farrell endorsing prop d, to bring the changes we need for the city we love.

. coming up, our next guest says elon musk is breaking the law by giving away millions of dollars to voters in battleground states. that conversation is straight ahead on "morning joe." it's time to grow your business. create a website. how? godaddy. coding... nah.

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. welcome back to "morning joe." in this post-lockdown working world during really divisive times it can be difficult for g focusing on yourself, by becoming self-reliant and building self-confidence. joining us now is "usa today" and amazon best-will issing

author maha abumahelanain and author of "rules of self-reliance," and own your future. very know your value and maha, in your book you write this, so much of how we live today requires a new playbook and mind set. the environment in which we operate today is complex. with the growing presence of ai, a trend of mass layoffs and the potential for another pandemic we can't afford to not be self-reliant. you continue, to make it simple, self-reliance equals self-confidence plus self-worth, plus believing in yourself plus equipping yourself with tools to be your own power. self-reliance is not about going it alone and shutting the world out. in fact, it's the opposite.

it's about leveraging the power of yourself and others to own your future. i love everything about this. i'd love to hear, maha, how your own personal story inspired you to write this book. >> thanks for having me, mika, i've had 20 years as an entrepreneur, but when my back was up against the wall i had to figure out how to rely on myself, if i had the confidence to build my personal brand opportunities would come to me. if i had the skills and knowledge i would be able to add value for others and most importantly, if i build my brand and i know value of who i am and what i stand for, i can help make a difference, not just in my community, but at work and with my family. i struggled taking care of two parents with ms and als and that's when i first learned the power of relying on myself to make the right decisions and then go from there. >> and so talk about some of the key -- i hate to sort of -- i

mean, it's principles of self-reliance that you focus on that you could perhaps list off for our viewers who are really connecting like this in a moment like right now. >> more than ever, mika, it's important that people understand they control their careers and they control their lives and instead of expecting others, your employer to support you. what knowledge can you go out and get? the internet and everything is for free. investing in yourself and being a life long learner is key to being self-reliant. the second thing is don't be a waiter. don't expect your manager to invest in you. you can take insights and you can anticipate needs and you can see around corners. i know everybody has the power to do that and not wait for people to bring you opportunities and to go out and create them and people who are self-reliant know that they can take that first step. >> self-reliant, i think a lot of people would think it's just all on me, and i don't know how to do this. so can you explain how it's not

all on you, but self-reliance starts with you. >> it starts with you. if you have the power to know that you can make your own decisions. a lot of people struggle with trusting themselves and you know what's best for you. you're the only person who will put you at the top of your priority list. it means selfish or something about being independent. i'm saying come to the table with assets. come to the table with knowledge and bring value to other people. it's more about giving than it is taking. >> the new book is entitled "7 rules of self-reliance: how to stay low, keep moving and invest in yourself and invest in your own future" maha, thank you so much for coming on the show. it's great to see you, and i will see you very soon. >> i can't wait. >> take care, my friend. >> up next, we'll go through the brand-new presidential polling

from several battleground states with just over two weeks until election day. meanwhile, the trump campaign is spending millions dollars to flood the airwaves and we'll tell you what it is and why it's based on a lie. keep it right here on "morning joe." ♪♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

but then this week trump did strike a positive tone when he stopped questions at a town hall to just dance for 40 minutes. please enjoy these somehow 100% real clips. ♪ this is a man's world ♪ ♪♪ ♪ hallelujah ♪ ♪ ♪♪ ave ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪ nothing compares ♪ ♪♪ ♪ in the cold november rain ♪ ♪♪

♪♪ special. [ laughter ] like, really special. and you can find all those incredible songs on "now that's what i call dementia." yeah. welcome to fourth hour of "morning joe." it's 6:00 a.m. on the west coast and 9:00 amp m. in the east. jonathan lamire is still with us and a new poll out moments ago finds a tight race for the white house, the latest washington post battleground poll of likely voters finds vice president kamala harris up four in georgia, three in wisconsin and two in michigan and pennsylvania. harris and donald trump are tied in nevada while the former president is up three in both arizona and north carolina.

those results are all within the margin of error. >> of course, everything is within the margin of error and jonathan lamire. everything is still tied. i can show you good polls that could go the opposite direction in most of these states for the different candidates. what's so interesting to me is this has taken over an extended period of time over several weeks with a very, very large number of voters. so for 5,000 likely voters. it's not one of these snapshot in time. we always say polls are a snapshot in time. this is much broader and covers, actually, two weeks where we actually saw harris -- that's what's so interesting about this. this actually is recording the time, harris over two weeks is actually fading in the polls and

yet some numbers they'll look pretty good for her. >> right. because it's over a longer period of time it's tougher to do the trends, but at large, it's close. it's extraordinarily close, and i think the couple of numbers that jump out is both campaigns agree that at this moment, arizona, though far from settled does seem to be leaning slightly towards trump and this poll reenforces that. the other number that jumps out at that is georgia with harris up four because that's the trump campaign would contest that. the harris team says they think it's razor thin and it's 50/50 at this moment and it reenforces the blue wall strategy and michigan and wisconsin has been harris' unrelenting focus in recent days. i'm glad we got the poll out this morning because it was striking and newsworthy and just how the lack of high-quality polls that we've had over the last week or so and this past

weekend came and went without anything of note and we should note for narrative sake, we are seeing a flood of dubious, republican-laning gop polls that are out there trying to change the narrative and trying to make donald trump feel better, but like in 2022 trying to produce some sort of red wave to spur momentum and get people out and democrats to stay home, but they're bogus. >> and this is why the media was suckered into talking about the red wave that was coming, why trump supporters and republicans were suckered into believing there was a red wave coming when there just simply was not because -- and -- and for some reason these polling averages, jonathan, when you go to these sites they get low-quality republican polls that are constantly skewing. i mean, i don't even look at the numbers first, i look at who conducted the poll and then i just keep going because -- and

by the way, that's not just on, you know -- that's not just on the right. if i see, like, left-wing action progress going the -- you know, whatever, i'll flip past that, as well, but you're right. there aren't a lot of good, high-quality polls, and i just wonder because it's -- i've never seen this on a weekend where you're two weeks out from a presidential race, but you know, they could be saying we have no idea. the trump campaign, it's so funny talking to people in the trump campaign, this is the best donald trump. maybe he's going to win in a landslide. they're talking like he's going to win this a landslide that would tell you the serious people in that campaign, the serious people in the harris campaign, serious people who really know what's going on they all say that right now the race is tied. it could go in either direction.

this is a turnout game, jonathan. >> no question. the trump folks who like to brag to reporters certainly did a lot of that this weekend saying this is the best they've felt about the race since the rnc convention, i.e., before kamala harris came on the ticket but those in the inner circle said no, this is much, much closer and we heard from one of the leaders of the harris campaign say all our interns say this is a dead heat. we'd rather be us than them, but we have a lot of work to do in these last two weeks. the lack of polls is an acknowledgement that they can't be trusted. set your alarm for the sienna college freakout poll next sunday morning and that's going to come, but i think rate now we're seeing also a real debate among pollsters and it's exactly how to do this. they missed 2016 and they

undercounted trump votes. he lost, but not by nearly the margin that was anticipated and of course, as we just discussed they missed in 2022 by overstating republican votes and right now it seems to be how are they sampling? how are they weighing this? how are they trying to account for these so-called hidden trump votes and there's some belief that they're overstating it, that there aren't as many trump votes this time around and the pollsters are getting it wrong that way. >> just so people that are looking at polls on both sides understand what's going on, and what's going on? you have the question about black men and hispanic men on one side. how much are they going to be breaking toward donald trump? that's the first question and that's, of course, that's the bright, shiny object that the press is heading after and then after you start hearing about white, educated voters with college degrees and how they're

breaking more towards harris. this is -- in record numbers. so this is a question of who breaks more, how much more do they break? who gets their voters out and that's why, when you talk to the -- when you talk to serious grown-ups in both campaigns they will tell you we have no idea. rid now we feel that both sides are saying we're not going to say what's going to happen, but we feel pretty good about where we are right now, but it's all a turnout game, but the one thing i keep hearing from harris people especially this weekend, while i hear from trump people this weekend they're feeling very confident. harris people who are all veterans of hillary's 2016 campaign, we're not going to start getting confident. we're not going to start leaping

for joy, but just as you said, they say quietly, we like the direction this is moving. it is tied right now. we may be down like a point in north carolina right now. we may be down a couple of points in arizona right now, but we're feeling good about the rest of it. we're tied, but we like the direction we're going. that's how they're saying 15 days out. so much can change in 15 days, jonathan. i always go back to the first big election of my life that i remember reagan and jimmy carter is something i followed very closely. going into friday everyone was saying this race is up in the air. this race is tied and at least that's what the commentators were saying and then we saw an election, one broadcaster after another being shocked by the size and scale of reagan's

landslide. just like we saw people shocked in 2016 by donald trump's victory. just like we saw people shocked in 2022 by the red wave that wasn't, that never materialized because as you said, they overestimated republican support. now the question is with donald trump on the ballot does that push those numbers back up to the level where once again, you know, maybe they're over compensating or under compensating, we just don't know, and we don't know how many republican undervotes there will be in states like wisconsin that gave joe biden the election in 2020. so these are all, pollsters can guess and we can guess, but as tom brokaw told us after everyone was saying hillary was going to lose the primary to

barack obama in new hampshire in 2008, maybe we should wait and let the voters tell us which way this election's going. >> no question. we are two weeks or so away and events can happen. they'll, of course, more and more americans have voted because so many are voting early, but to your point, if it is a turnout election and it's about ground game and blocking and tackling, they have more money and a better field operation, but if it is a question of what's the hidden vote here? is there a bigger than expected a black or latino vote for trump as the polls suggest? well, that's a huge advantage to him. i would like to end on this note, the huge, maybe biggest-ever gender gap. trump doing very well with men, irthattis doing historically well with women and that's what the polls suggest, and i think there are people in the harris

campaign have told me this, if there is a hidden vote, a quiet vote. suburban women, many of them republican or moderates or independents who go back and forth, swing voters who will break for harris and three, four weeks from now whenever the dust has actually settled we'll all look at each other and say, you know what this was? this was the first presidential election after dobbs, and it was abortion rights all along that was the story. it was staring us in the face. >> all right. with that in mind, let's bring in democratic senator of massachusetts, elizabeth warren. she joins us from wisconsin where she has been campaigning for vice president kamala harris as an official campaign surrogate. she also campaigned in michigan for harris over the weekend. i would like to ask you what you're hearing when you're talking to voters, senator, about the key issues in this campaign and is jonathan lamire correct that abortion healthcare and life-saving health care for

women, is that a central issue? >> there is a lot of energy on the ground. rate now i was in stevens point and in o claire yesterday. people are showing up and they are fired up, and jonathan is exactly right. a big part of what they're fired up about is they understand that right now in wisconsin they feel safe on the abortion issue, but they recognize that more than 30% of women all across this country effectively have no access to abortion, and that gets them fired up because they understand that if donald trump and j.d. vance take the white house it won't be 30%. it will be 100% because they're coming for abortion all across this country. j.d. vance has written a letter to the department of just toys enforce the comstock, and he did that before he was vice

presidential candidate, but it lays out the groundwork and that's what project 2025 does. so when i'm out talking to people, what i see is i see a lot of women and a lot of friends of women who are really fired up and the point is they're doing something, they're knocking on doors and they're texting and taking their anxiety and they're putting it into action, and i'm really hopeful that's going to pay off. >> okay. so donald trump, senator, sat down with howard kurtz for a wide-ranging interview in which the former president argued that a news program should be taken off the air because it aired context that he didn't like, that certain democrats are, quote, enemies from within including some of your colleagues. that january 6th was, quote, a beautiful thing, the insurrection at the capitol, and that the dangerous lies he spread about legal haitian migrants in springfield, ohio,

were n his fault. i'm going to play them and i'd like to talk to you on the other side. take a listen. >> i've never seen anything like it. she gave a horrible, incompetent answer on a news program. it's not an entertainment program. they call it news. they say it's the number one news purpose, and so she gives an answer that shows that she's dumb or incompetent or something wrong with her. it's so bad that the people at cbs say we'll do a little editing like the word the and make it their or something, you understand? they take the whole ridiculous answer out and it was a long answer and replace it with a much shorter answer that she did having to do with a totally different subject which also didn't make sense, but it wasn't as incompetent. i think it's the biggest scandal i've ever seen for a broadcaster and "60 minutes," no, i think "60 minutes," i think it should

be taken off the air, frankly. the outside people, the so-called enemies if they're enemies and they might not be enemies, if you have a smart president they can be handled, but when you have people investigating my campaign, when you have people -- you know, they spied on my campaign, you understand that? that's been proven, but they spy on your campaign. the russia, russia, russia hoax was all made up and now it's acknowledged that it was made up and all of these different things. you have the 51 different agents saying it was from russia and now they say it wasn't from russia. okay. so we were lying -- many other things -- you just don't have enough time, but what they've done is so terrible. who has ever heard of anything like this. adam shifty schiff, he's a crooked guy, he's going to be a senator, can you believe it? >> he's a political opponent. >> of course, he's an enemy.

he's bad people. we have a lot of bad people, but when you look at shifty schiff and others, they are the enemy to me. i think nancy pelosi is an enemy from within. she lied. she was supposed to protect the capitol. a small group of people went down to the capitol and then a lot of strange things happened including police ushering them into the capitol. you know that, and a lot of -- i'm not referring to that, i'm saying when i saw -- the largest group i've ever spoken to in front of these beautiful monuments i thought it was actually a beautiful thing. it was a protest. >> your famous line about springfield, ohio, and i take your point that 15,000 to 20,000 legal haitians in that area causes a lot of friction, but when you said it's been viral that they're eating the dogs,

they're eating the cat. you said you were reporting what had been said. why not say now that's not to be true. >> i don't know if it's true or not true. >> you don't know if it's true or not true. >> it's been debunked. >> what about the goose? what about the geese? what happened there? they're all missing. i don't know. listen, howie -- >> howie, i have no idea. i said something, the big problem is that you can't put 30,000 people into a 50,000-person town or city and expect this city to even survive or do well. what they've done to springfield, ohio, is very, very unfair. there are a lot of stores, a lot of other stores that are horrible and they haven't said it, maybe i will, maybe i won't, but that's a story that was reported, and i said that. why don't you go after the newspaper that wrote it? don't blame me. >> you keep spreading the lies. and even spread the lies there

and then howard calls him out and he says, the goose, the geese are all missing and then mumbles and says, i have no idea. i just -- senator, a couple of things. we can talk about all of the lies there and we can talk about springfield and we can talk about lies and the russia hoax. i want to read you what republican-led intel committee said about the 2016 campaign. the report's language is often stark and said that paul manafort and the campaigns to russian outreach was a grave, counterintelligence threat and made the campaign susceptible to, quote, malign russian influence. that doesn't sound -- if marco rubio led the intel committee said that the campaign posed a grave counterintelligence threat, it doesn't sound like a hoax to me. i do wonder, what about a major

party candidate, a former president saying that she is not an enemy, putin is not an enemy, kim jong-un is not an enemy, but that fellow americans who opposed his policies are enemies of the state, enemies from within. >> yeah. ten different ways donald trump is telling us that he intends to be a dictator, that if he can seize power he wants to run it like a dictator. that's true when he identifies not the countries and the leaders of the countries that are dictatorships that threaten the united states, but identifies people who are just his political rivals here in the united states. it's true when he says oh, if there's news coverage that disagrees with the trump position, then it needs to be shut down. it's true when donald trump

lies, gets caught in a lie and just continues to repeat the lie because he's saying there are no curbs on me. i will go ahead as donald trump and i will proclaim what constitutes truth, and he will seize all power for himself. we truly have to understand that in this election there is a man who is telling us loud and clear, given the chance and he will be dictator not just for a day, he will be dictator. he wants to destroy our democracy because he wants all of the power for himself. >> all right. senator, elizabeth warren of massachusetts, we hear you. thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. we want to turn now to communications director for the harris-walz campaign, michael tyler. michael, thank you so much for joining us. so where do you begin? with kamala harris' closing

arguments trying to frame what's at stake and what the key issues are for her? >> good morning. thank you so much for having me. listen, we're about two weeks out from election day. voting is already under way, and so what you will see this week is the vice president criss-crossing the battleground states talking to every segment of the harris-walz coalition of what the stakes are. she'll be traveling with liz cheney, charlie sykes and sarah longwell and reaching out to republican voters in the key suburban counties telling this emthat it's not only the time to turn the page on donald trump and seek a new way forward where we can achieve everything she's talked about with this campaign and an opportunity economy where people can get ahead and also for folks who don't necessarily agree with the vice president on every single issue. if you're concerned about what you saw in that intu with donald trump and howie kurtz and a man who is unstable and unhinged who disrespects the constitution.

there say home for you in the vice president's campaign, and so increasingly, that's what we're seeing as we travel across the country, as we see this growing and diverse coalition of voters that's coming behind vice president harris. we've got two weeks to shore up the votes and we're confident in the candidate's message to do that. >> the vice president is back on the road with former congresswoman liz cheney. tell us about that effort to try to reach perhaps republicans to get them across the aisle, but how do you balance that with trying to appeal with the democratic base because of gaza or other issues who are repulsed by the name cheney. how are you doing both? >> listen, we can do boeing, we should do both and we are doing both. you should hear the vice president speak to the entire coalition that makes up the harris-walz coalition and weave done this through the barnstorming and the media and the interviews from all of the

smoke, to call her daddy, to howard stern to fox news last week and and traveling across key suburban contes and the harris coalition understands that we are stronger when we are diverse, right? when you have people who may not agree on everything, but who understand the fundamental stakes. it also speaks to the fact that vice president harris intends to govern as a president for all americans. we think that is a point of contrast between the vice president and donald trump who, as you guys were just discussing wherevers to half of the countries as enemies from within and people who disagree with him, journalists and voters and no matter where you are in the political spectrum, most are tired of that behavior and they're tire of that rhetoric and offering a new way forward and not just on the policies that the rp is proposing, but on the entire approach to politics and not vilifyinging and demonizing one another and bringing people together to get

things done and that's what the president is doing in this campaign. >> i want to get your reaction to this. the trump campaign has spent millions in battle ground states for taxpayer funds. events with high male viewership. the problem it's a policy that was carried out by the trump administration. a new report by "the new york times" finds that and i'll quote from it, trump appointees at the bureau of prisons provided an array of gender-affirming treatments including hormone therapy for a small group of inmates who requested it during mr. trump's four years in office. in a february 2018 budget memo to congress, bureau officials wrote that under federal law they were obligated to pay for a prisoner's surgery if it was deemed medically necessary. legal wrangling delayed the first such operation until 2022.

the paper continues. transgender offenders may require individual counseling and emotional support officials wrote, medical care may include pharmaceutical interventions which includes cross-gender hormone therapy, hair removal and surgery, if individualized assessment indicates surgical intervention is applicable. the statement in part reflected guidelines that officials in the obama administration released shortly before they left office. the most significant change the trump administration made in the guidelines after they took over was the addition of the word necessary that created a higher, but not insur moundable barrier to federally funned surgeries. in an, mail to the times, the trump campaign has never force fltlial caded for the inmays to get transgender surgery. another example of rank

hypocrisy as well as more of this information. >> was it a trump policy, they actually looked at that policy and added wording to it so it's not like they didn't know they had that policy where prisoners can receive gender-affirming care. trump policy! >> they sent these documents to congress. they sent them to congress to talk about gender-affirming care that prisoners may be able -- >> you know, i watch football as well as you, jonathan, and i have seen these ads run non-stop. i've got to say, it's up to the harris campaign to actually, and i'm glad we have somebody from there -- >> as it works out. >> that actually -- >> he's happy to be here. to push back. so let me ask you, michael

tyler, 30,000 ads. 30,000 ads showing kamala harris in a forum. yeah, i do this. >> it's the law. >> it's the law. it's the trump law. these are donald trump's documents from the justice department. this is what donald trump's justice department sent to congress. let me say this again. this is what donald trump's justice department sent to congress talking about the, quote, gender-affirming care that inmates would need to get. taxpayer funded gender affirming care. i've got to say it sounds like a crazy idea to me, and we can

have that debate at another time. it sounds like a crazy idea to a lot of americans, but we can have that debate another time. i guess my question is how does the harris-walz campaign allow 30,000 commercials on nfl programs to have donald trump take some words that kamala harris said out of a forum in 2019 when at the same time his administration, his justice department. >> there is a real answer to it. what is it, michael? what's the answer? ? yeah. i think the vice president spoke to this when she sat down with brett baird calling out the point you're making that she will follow the law, but this is exactly what the trump administration itself was doing and implementing when they were in power, right? i think the reason that the trump campaign is doing this, i think they're doing it for a couple of reasons, frankly.

number one, they don't actually want to have a conversation about healthcare in the united states of america when you a candidate who is talking about terminating the aca or repealing the $35 cap on insulin. they don't want to have a conversation about health care that affects all 350 million people in the united states of america. they want to hone in on hypocritic attacks that are meant to divide and sow chaos in the final weeks of this campaign. also the reason they're spending millions of dollars in this misleading attack is they don't have a candidate who is up for the job in the final stretch of the campaign. you have the howie kurtz interview and you see him over the course of the weekend when he gets on stage and instead of offering in his campaign talks about arnold palmer's manhood or goes again on fox news and talks about geese and catses and dogs. they don't have a candidate who is up to the task in the final stretch so their only tool is

this paid media campaign down the final stretch. what this campaign is goinging to do is be clear-eyed about the vice president's vision and we'll continue to put donald trump's nonsense front and center in front of the american people. so whether they are hiding their candidate or not, we are going to make sure that he is exposed over the final 15 days of his campaign. communications director for the harris-walz campaign michael tyler, thank you very much for coming on. thank you. >> can you believe this? jonathan lamire. >> i can believe it, actually. no surprise to me, but it will be a surprise to some watching football. it's just a crazy kamala idea -- >> u.s. department of justice. >> trump. >> u.s. department of justice, federal bureau of prisons director mike inch transgender offender manual dated may 11,

2018 and they get through and they talk about all of the things they need to do for transgender inmates are people that -- that -- that may want a transgender -- transgender -- what do they call it? gender-affirming care. gender-affirming care. management of offenders with transgender needs. now i will say again, offending many people in this audience, i don't get this. i just don't. like, taxpayer-supported dollars for this. >> it's very complicated. >> it's very complicated. yes, we'll say for some people it's very complicated, but i just say that to say we can have that debate at another time. the debate we cannot have is now

hypocritical. the trump campaign has been running 30,000 ads during nfl games who impact black male voters, hispanic male voters and working-class voters and that's their target audience. they're doing this because of what kamala said in a 2019 forum while donald trump's justice department, donald trump's -- the head of his bureau of prisons was sending instructions to congress about gender-affirming care and possibly surgery, taxpayer-funded surgery. this is the donald trump trans plan right here and for the life of me, they don't understand how the harris campaign allows 30,000 commercials to run on nfl

games and they're going -- this is truly just a truly liberal democratic thing to do, people on the campaign scratching their heads going -- hmmm, this isn't a real issue, then they're going, why are we losing black men and hispanic men and working-class white men? >> we don't think this ad is having an impact. >> oh, really? >> it's not having an impact. why are they rining the ads 30,000 times? jonathan, to you, my friend. >> thank you. those ads are everywhere and in particular in the battleground state. i mentioned i was in suburban philadelphia and a lot of immigration to be sure, but this was the number two topic despite it had such a narrow wedge issue. this was the number two topic. they feel like they're on to something here and we are just fact checking one way. let's reiterate one date, that order for the doj dated may 11,

2018, donald j. trump was president. >> right. so again, the transgender offender manual. this is donald trump's transgender offender manual. guidance. >> taxpayer funded -- >> on transgender surgeries and gender-affirming care in donald trump's prisons when he was president. ? hypocrites? >> just responding to that sound bite they keep running of kamala harris talking about what's happening in prisons and it being the law. trump's policy. >> again. again, justice department memos to congress from donald trump. >> okay. >> right? and they're getting a clip from kamala harris at a forum. really? >> confirming what the law is.

>> coming up, elon musk is pledging to give away $1 million a day to voters for signing his political action committee's petition backing the constitution, but is that against the law? paying voters to -- okay. that's next on "morning joe."

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san francisco's leadership is failing us. that's why mark farrell is endorsing prop d. because we need to tackle our drug and homelessness crisis just like mark did as our interim mayor. mark farrell endorsing prop d, to bring the changes we need for the city we love. when you hear trump talk, i mean, america is just a flaming bag of dog [ bleep ]. only one who can stomp it out, and the economist today headlined, the envy of the world, america's economy is bigger and better than ever. i mean, the top ten u.s. tech stocks have greater value than the entire stock markets of canada, britain, france, germany. what's our secret? >> the numbers are incredible, and it drives me crazy when i hear politicians talking about how bad things are in america. we have a $26 trillion gdp. china, which was supposed to overtake us ten years ago, remember that?

they're, line, suck it, 17, 18 trillion. california which is supposed to be a socialist state has the fourth biggest gdp in the world, bigger than india's, bigger than britain's, bigger than canada. texas has a bigger gdp than russia. it's incredible. relative to the rest of the world and that's the only way we can measure this, our economy is stronger today than any time since world war ii. >> yep. >> so much of that has to do -- nobody -- nobody is saying that. maybe it's because nobody gets elected by saying how great this country's economy is, but it's not just the tech sector which is great, but it's also small business. it's what's happening on main street. it's entrepreneurs. it's people -- >> it's our nature. we're greedy and it's good. >> i've got another way to say it that's not straight out of wall street, but one of my favorite commercials ever that explains the essence of america

was bill gates -- or was steve jobs' first apple commercial. think different. we're just different than the rest of the world. a guy like bill gates, borrows 5,000 bucks and gets a couple of hippies from berkeley, they go into their dad's garage and create microsoft. i tell you, that's a mindset that guys like mark have. that's not a mindset that other people across the world have. >> when you go here, everyone has the american dream. everyone has the one idea in their stomach. >> that's it. we have so much wrong with our country and that's still the thing that separates us. >> more from joe's appearance "real time with bill maher" on friday. in pennsylvania on saturday elon musk made the unprecedented and potentially unlawful move of announcing that his america pac

will be giving away $1 million every day until election day to a registered voter in a battleground state who signs the pac's conservative-leaning petition. >> so every day between now and the election we'll be awarding a million dollars starting tonight. so -- so tonight's person is john kraeger. [ cheers and applause ] >> the only thing we ask for the million dollars is that you be a spokesperson for the petition and that's it, really. >> pennsylvania's democratic governor josh shapiro said law enforcement should potentially get involved. >> when you start flowing this kind of money into politics, i think it raises serious questions that folks may want to

take a look at. >> yeah. there's just a few. >> republicans who get angry with -- with people in philadelphia, inner city philadelphia and they give them walk around money. they give $20 to encourage people and they're just doing it on the stage. >> yeah. >> a million dollars. >> co-anchor of "squawk box" and the co-founder and ceo of all in together and lauren leader and the election law analyst fred kisen, professor of law at ucla and safeguarding the democracy project. i have to say, i'm a lawyer and i can kind of sort through a lot of stuff generally, but i have no idea about what's going on with this million dollar check a day. is that -- democrats are saying

that might be campaign violation, illegal violation, what can you tell us? >> sure. i think there is a very strong possibility it's illegal. there's foe problem with having a lottery at least from the point of view from election law to pay people to sign a petition. the problem is to sign the petition you have to be, if you go to their website of his pac you have to be a register voter in a swing state. so this is essentially a lottery to either induce people po register to vote. it's 52 usc-10307c. you can look it up. you can't pay people to register to vote. the doj election crimes manual says that lotteries count as a kind of payment. so it seems pretty open and shut to me. the fact that you're signing a petition is pretty irrelevant. it's like saying we'll have a lottery where people who wear

glasses can participate, but you have to be a registered voter and it's to pay people to register to vote. >> the deadline to register to vote is rapidly approaching and this may be less of a pertinent issue, but let me ask you this, taking a step back from this effort out campaigning for trump now and if you look at the x twitter and the x tab and the most posts, touting donald trump. have we seen a single figure sway an election like this? ? he's got his hands in a lot of different things. i don't think that other things that you just mention side illegal and it does show you that people with a great amount of wealth, that if you want to put it in a political process today, thanks to the citizens unite the money is just flowing. he has influence through his website which he now controls

and sends complete propaganda. remember, this was the website that republicans criticized rightly so for making it hard find the hunter biden story in 2020 and right now it's being used and it's a total pro-trump website. he can do that with his money and it's not the open public square that he was talking about creating when he bought twitter a few years ago. >> all right. nbc news election law analyst hasen, thank you so much. andrew, let's talk about, first of all, i know you agree with me because it's just the facts what i say about america's economy. again, being the envy of the world. anything you want to add or subtract from that? >> i think it's almost impossible to say that we are the envy of the world. there's nothing that i would really add to that.

i think the question is why are we the envy of the world, and i think the main reason we're the envy of the world is because of law and order, something that obviously former president trump has campaigned on and there's a real question of what law and order is a democracy and that's ultimately the other side of that coin. >> he's campaigning against her when she's talking about democrats being the enemy from within so we'll see how that plays out. >> can i talk about -- can we talk about elon because i want to make an important point. >> yeah. go ahead. which is two things. i just wanted to read you the actual law, the actual law in writing because it's very specific. it says anyone who knowingly and willfully pays or offers to pay or accepts payment either for registration to vote or for voting shall be fined and this is important, not more than $10,000 or imprisoned not more

than five years and the reason i wanted to read you the entirety of that law and by the way, it goes on to talk about the prospect of lottery tickets, but the important point is even if elon musk is committing some kind of campaign finance a crime, if you will, that he will not be fined more than $10,000 or could go to jail potentially for five years. five years would be a long time, obviously, but the point that i'm making is there's a little bit of let's go to the absolute edge of the envelope, if you will. let's get to the gray zone and maybe even go over the line, and you know what? if it costs us, or costs him in the context of paying legal fees or paying an illegal fine of $10,000, and jail is a different subject, and from his team's

perspective, let's try to take it up the line if not over the line and we'll deal with it afterwards. >> wow. >> so, andrew, let's talk about what bill maher brought up the duality, the two sides of the coin to elon musk. you've got one of the most brilliant innovators around and is doing things that are remarkable, and at the same time you have an immigrant who is spreading anti-immigrant disinformation and general disinformation on his platform, and we were talking about this sort of reminds us of henry ford who, of course, created the modern age and at the same time when he went to capitol hill people were shocked how ignorant he was on the most basic of things and what an antisemite he was. so there's a duality here that a lot of people at left in silicon

valley are wrestling with because he is so innovative in so many ways. >> think you've hit -- you're hitting on the head which isyou hold two things in your mind at the same time that he is this remarkable genius when it comes to engineering and space and all these other things and yet could he have blind spots, if not worse, on other issues when it relates to questions about, you know, democracy or free speech? he will tell you, he believes that what he's doing is right. by the way, i believe that he believes that what he's doing is genuinely in the best interest -- >> do you really? because here's a guy that just trashed donald trump and donald trump trashed him. this seems a lot more like a marriage of convenience. >> it's interesting. oftentimes i have known and reported on people who from the outside you say this is so

hypocritical what they're doing, and i think when you talk to them, maybe they have rationalized it. i don't want to sit here and tell you that he's not rationalizing here. i think that it requires a good lot of rationalizing to -- to get from where he was to where he is today, but do i believe that he genuinely believes this? i do, do i believe there are other ancillary things that could be helpful for him if former president trump becomes president and he's close to that person and he likes the idea of making these contrarian bets? i do, and he probably rationalized it and justifies a lot of his view as it relates to that. a lot of folks in the valley have this idea, almost a libertarian view that they have to go against the culture any do the thing that is not popular, and i do think that that is at least part of what is driving

him towards -- towards trump and towards being as outspoken as he has been. ? certainly, critics will note the amount of governing contracts he has and his relationship with trump could be very beneficial to musk, but give us your thought right now and the role he's playing to his campaign. some have gone so far to say there is an outside threat to democracy. >> there are disturbing things, and he's been pushing misinformation, and something marked as parody for extended periods. you made the point this he's manipulating the feed. we know that he's doing that. it's been documented. all of us getting endless streams of disinformation from musk in the x feeds. he has a long history of this. he does not care about the law and has made that very clear.

remember that he is also being sued by almost all of the senior executives from twitter who he fired claiming that they were fired for cause, denied them their stock, their health insurance, et cetera, and has violated the warren act. he fired the head of hr and fired a huge number of employees and he went a step further by attacking secretary of state benson. now he's going after her personally, naming her by name and trying to discredit the validity of the votes and the voter roles in michigan. benson had to spend most of the weekend responding and she'll be on my show to talk about it again. it's absolutely disturbing the level of outside influence one guy, one, you know, one exceptionally walthsy guy who

can buy his way on basic immunity like this. we have never seen anything like that. >> andrew ross sorkin, earlier we were talking about the republican-leaning polls, that juiced the numbers that make it look like trump is doing better than he is. tell us how bets have been placed to make trump's odds seem better? one of the markers that i've talked about on this broadcast has been the betting markets over the past couple of weeks and we've seen those betting markets move towards former president trump and a lot have moved toward the marks and because people are putting money on the line. >> i think there is a big, now as risk and it's by the u.s. i also know it's illegal for members should be talking about

foreign investors and they're using vpn services in the u.s. to pretend, and have been four major trades on made on this markets that have come in through cryptocurrency for former president trump and there's a question about the accuracy and validity about how the markets are doing and how much we should take away from them. >> all right. cnbc's andrew ross sorkin, thank you very, very much. lauren, before we go, you've also been looking at the early vote. 38 states have had early voting under way. what are you hearing? what are you finding? what can we glean from what has happened so far in. >> >> it's hard to fully read tea leaves and some of my friends are anxious and the gender based on the data available from our

friends at target smart, it does look like the turnout of women is very high, about ten points higher than it is of men which is sort of on track to be aligned with what it was in 2020. the overall early vote numbers, although as has been noted in places like georgia and north carolina is historic highs. the overall number is not quite as big as what they were in 2020 at the same point, but you know, what we've all been suspecting that turnout of women is going to be really high on par with '20 and '22. it seems to be on track but we've got 15 days and that trend has to continue. >> absolutely. co-founder and ceo of all in together and host of "majority rules" on two way, lauren leader, always, thank you so much for coming on this morning and that does it for us this morning. ana cabrera picks up the coverage after a final break, and before we go, a quick look at what is topping "the drudge report" this morning. the headline, mcdonald's one fry short of a happy meal.

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>> right now on "ana cabrera reports," the final 15. the 2024 race closing in on two weeks. vp harris hitting the swing states while trump spent the weekend slinging vulgarities and french fries. plus harris responding to trump's escalating personal attacks in an exclusive interview with msnbc's al sharpton. >> the president of the united states must set a standard not only for our nation, but understanding the standard that we as a nation must