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clearer that only one of the presidential nominees is living here with us in reality. over on earth one. and it's vice president harris. she's making an all hands on deck effort to reach a wide and diverse swath of voters with harris making a three-stop tour of midwestern swing states where liz cheney at her side and then we have to deal with it. there's a presidential nominee running a bizarre haphazard campaign these days. vulgar comments, crude insults, staging stunts at mcdonald's in a desperate attempt to get people to pay attention to his lie that kamala harris never worked there and with each passing day, the big question in american politics is is he okay? at the saturday campaign rally in pennsylvania, the self-described stable genius began remarks about arnold palmer, a whole ten minutes into

his rant, he said this. >> i'm going to tell them the real story of arnold but arnold palmer was all man and i say that in all due respect to women and i love women, but this guy, this guy, this is a guy that was all man. this man was strong and tough and i refused to say it, but when he took showers with the other pros, they came out of there, they said, oh, my god. that's unbelievable. >> and you know what they say. guys who talk about it, i'll leave it at that. so here's the rest of the trump campaign's closing message. arnold palmer's and this. >> so you have to tell kamala harris that you've had enough. that you just can't take it anymore. we can't stand you.

you're a shit vice president. the worst. you're the worst vice president. kamala, you're fired. get the hell out of here. you're fired. get out of here. >> so that's on the menu. if you want it. and we play it like that unedited and unfiltered because here we are, in the ninth inning of the 2024 presidential campaign and possibly of our democracy. near the end of trump's third run for the white house and it's worth remaining clear eyed about exactly what the choice is. trump is now publicly facing all of you, the voters of america, with his cranky, exhausted, vulgar self. between the discussions of around palmer's penis size, the conversations about sharks and hannibal lecter who he started

calling doctor, the bizarre moments of swaying to his favorite play lists for 30 minutes. there remains one consistent through line in donald trump's third run for the office. his deeply authoritarian inclinations and promises. and it comes out even in the friendly confines of his favorite network, fox news. in an interview on sunday, donald trump was given a chance to take it all back. to walk back or tone down the comment that democrats living in this country are quote, the enemy within. and here's what happened. >> you talk about the enemy within. there's enemies, america's enemies outside. the enemy within is a pretty ominous phrase if you're talking about other americans. >> i think it's accurate. >> who were you talking about? >> i heard that, oh, the enemy. on the outside, you have russia, you have china. you have a lot of different groups. these are bad people.

we have a lot of bad people but when you look at shifty schiff and some of the other, yeah, they are, to me, the enemy from within. i think nancy pelosi is an enemy from within. >> it's where we are. and then in an interview here on msnbc, vice president kamala harris had a simple message and response to donald trump's crude smears about her in his unhinged behavior. >> so, the american people deserve so much better. that's how i come at it. and to your point, the president of the united states must set a standard. not only for our nation but understanding the standard that we as a nation must set for the world. you know, we, we representing the united states of america, walk into rooms around the world with the earned and self-appointed authority to talk about the importance of

democracy, rule of law. and have been thought of as a role model and perfect though we may be, but a role model of what it means to be committed to certain standards, including international rules and norms, but also standards of decorum. and what you see in my opponent, a former president of the united states, really is, it demeans the office. and i have said and i'm very clear about this. donald trump should never again stand behind the seal of the president of the united states. he has not earned the right. he has not earned the right. and that's why he's going to lose. >> in a few minutes, vice president harris will be joined at a campaign event in michigan alongside liz cheney. it's the second stop in that swing state tour that we mentioned. we'll bring it to you live when it gets underway, but we start right now with some of our most favorite reporters and friends and people who can handle the truth of who donald trump is

showing all of us he really truly is. it starts with msnbc news correspondent, vaughn hillyard. he's with donald trump in north carolina today. along with us for the rest of the hour, the whole hour, msnbc political analyst, tim miller is here. former rnc spokesman, host of the bulwark podcast, "new york times" editorial board member, mark gay is here. also joining us, distinguished political scholar and professor at princeton. vaughn, i'm sorry to come to you straight out of this. there's so much there to reckon with as a country, as voters. but again, none of this was caught on secret tape. none of this was leaked from someone rolling their recorder in the backseat of the beast or whatever vehicle donald trump is moved around in these days. these are the things donald trump is saying at a rally. this is part of a pattern of displaying empathy for harvey

weinstein describing americans as the enemy within. given a chance on fox news where these anchors have made clear they want him to do better. laura ingram did it last week. howard curtis did it this week. they wanted him to clean up this enemy within and he will not do it. people who oppose me, he named two. schiff and pelosi. take me inside the closing days of the third campaign for the white house. >> reporter: i think it would be accurate to report to you contextually that two weeks out from election day, the republican nominee for president of the united states, the former president, donald trump, is i would assert, the most unincumbered, publicly confident donald trump that i have seen in five years since before the pandemic. this is somebody who in 2022 went around the country to prove

to his republican party that he would be able to primary those that previously impeached him. in 2023, he went up a nice little florida governor, former ambassador, his own running mate, mike pence. all individuals who tried to challenge him he beat them all. that he proves to the country again that he was all powerful in the republican party. and here in 2024 over the course of four indictments, being found guilty on 34 felony counts, east been able to evade any punishment for any of the criminal charges brought before him. when he told this crowd he sees the polls and he is up in every battleground state and goes on to suggest he should also win the state of california if god were the vote counter, this is somebody who is confident about his position here and yet at a moment in time where we are reckoning with donald trump, also suggesting publicly to this crowd repeatedly that democrats are on the cusp of cheating.

he pointed out to the rnc chairman, he said he's in here in charge of keeping democrats from cheating. i bring that up because just about two hours ago, we were at another stop where i had the opportunity to ask donald trump not a question about what will that cheating look like, but instead, the question i presented to him was have there been any specific incidents of cheating up to this point that you or michael wattly would like to present to the country. he said no, not at this time. it's too early. then gets up on stage and suggests the only way he would lose were if democrats were to cheat. it's a lot that's coming down to ultimately 15 days here that could very well for donald trump i think here be a moment that the country is watching somebody who believes wholeheartedly he will win the election, what the country would look like in the aftermath. >> vaughn, let me freeze frame

on winning california in the same breath he thinks he's winning the battleground states. i guess they're eyes, he's seeing something we're not. in his mind, it happened in '16, but when you lump in california, it erases the credibility about the claim of the battleground states. tell me more about trump's belief as a candidate to be not just president, but the nation's commander in chief. saying publicly he thinks he's leaving california. >> reporter: frankly, his people, his supporters, a large number of them, they echo it. this is not the first time donald trump has suggested he would win california. he suggested it in 2023. in an interview about two months ago. let's be clear. he lost california to joe biden by five million votes. a 2-1 margin and yet that has not stopped him from putting out the idea that he won california. if god was the vote counter.

i was at his rally in coachella, california a week ago this weekend and went to talk to 50 of his supporters and asked them if they believe donald trump won the 2020 election in california. out of those 50 individuals, 30 said that, and it's quite reflective of the mass part of the republican electorate that believes the 2020 election was stolen from trump. as you said, i don't think there's any bigger lie to draw that stark contrast to reality with other than the california claim. 30 out of 50 people at that event believe he in fact won california. that is why it is important to note that him suggesting that has repercussions that extend down to the ground here. >> so 30 believe, so donald trump lost california, vaughn, by 5 million votes but 30 of 50 people believe he won. why would that be useful to donald trump? >> reporter: it's about sending a message to the party and to

those around him that his words have power. and the maga base, that's again when i go back to the primaries in 2022, the maga base listens to donald trump. when we look at it now, there is going to be no surprise defectors here at this point. those who resisted donald trump like cheney, tom rice, those folks have spoken out. this republican party has proved over the last three years since leaving the white house that this is a republican electorate that listens to him, believes him, and will stand and have his back. essentially under any circumstances. we watched one in the republican electorate despite the january 6th hearings, the republican electorate, you know, maybe just a simple majority. but a majority of that electorate has stood by him despite everything. when you look at the man on stage, it's a man that knows that and i think everyone you

watched unfold this weekend, you could call it a lack of discipline, a man in isolation, but it's a man that's confident he is able to say whatever he wants, campaign however he wants and the people of the republican party at the very ground level, that they will have his back. >> tim miller. let me start with you on the around palmer of all this. this is the palm beach post reporting on around palmer's daughter. and what around palmer's daughter says arnold palmer would think of donald trump today. quote, i think he'd cringe, my dad didn't like people who act like they're better than other people, peg palmer said. quote, he had no patience for people who were dishonest and cheat. my dad was disciplined. he wanted to be a good role model. he was appalled by trump's lack of civility and lack of character. peg palmer recalls one moment when her father saw trump on television during the 2016

presidential campaign, quote, one moment stands out in my mind, she said. my dad and i were home. he died in september, so this was before the election. the television was on. trump was talking and my dad made a sound of disgust like yuck or ugh. like he couldn't believe the arrogance and crudeness of this man who was the nominee of the political party that he believed in. then he said quote, he's not as smart as we thought he was and walked out of the room. what would make my dad think of, what would my dad think of donald trump today? i think he'd cringe. let me show you this, also, before we deal with arnold palmer because it has some significance in terms of what the trump base thinks they're getting with donald trump. here's cnn interviewing, this is jake tapper's interview with speaker mike johnson who simply put on the spot about trump's public closing argument.

>> is this really the closing message you want voters to hear from donald trump? stories about arnold palmer's penis? >> well, listen. i think that the headline that i read about the rally in pennsylvania yesterday was the big question. the one harris hasn't been willing or able to answer. that is are you better off now or than you were under the trump administration. >> why is he talking about arnold palmer's penis in front of pennsylvania voters? >> jake, you seem to like that line a lot. let me tell you -- >> let me just say something. i don't want to be talking about this. donald trump is out there saying it. >> but you continue to. hold on. >> you won't address it. he is out there talking -- >> i'll address it. let me answer it. okay. don't say it again. we don't have to say it. i get it. there's lines in a rally when president trump is at a rally, sometimes he'll speak for two straight hours.

you're questioning his stamina, mental acuity? joe biden couldn't do that for five minutes. that's how you started this segment. you said what if biden was in a rally like that. he couldn't fill the room. donald trump does. he has a record of performance. >> i didn't realize mike johnson also can't get over that joe biden for the good of the party and the good of our democracy is off the ticket. clearly, he's in that category. but that the reason it's important even to the trump voter is because he is waving a red flag in front of the country in these final 16 days, saying look how bat shit crazy i can be. and to vaughn's very important, substantive reporting, he can make 30 of 50 trump voters believe he won a state he lost by 5 million votes. so the reason this is important is if you've already voted for

trump, i think god will forgive you, but if you haven't made that mistake yet, he's making a fool of you. he's making a fool of you and he thinks you want to hear him weave as he says and talk about around palmer's penis as a metaphor for his virility. i was in a sorority and the only men who talk about the size of any man's penis are those projecting insecurity about their own. so here we are, 16 days to go, and this is donald trump's message to his base. >> i think two elements are really important. i agree with what you said there. one is this notion of manhood. this is important in the final days of the campaign because both campaigns are speaking to younger men. i think that's a swing demographic. and i think that was just very telling about what donald trump thinks about when he thinks of manhood and the contrast between him and arnold palmer as told by

his daughter. for donald trump, like being a real man is bragging about the size of arnold palmer's 3 wood. that's what being a real man is to donald trump right. he's probably overcompensating for something. there was a period of time when we were growing up where like the traits of manhood, of being a real man, are all these traits donald trump doesn't have. like integrity. humility. you know, loyalty. right? the strong, silent type if you will, right? that's not donald trump in any way. all those traits palmer and those men of that generation had. trump's selling this vulgar knock off version of manhood since he doesn't have any of those genuine traits of manhood. i hope that's a message that can get through to some young men who are on the fence and are looking at donald trump and seeing him and being told that he is some symbol of manhood, which he isn't. the other thing i would say that

makes this very relevant and mike johnson's discomfort there and his campaign's discomfort, is that regardless of what you think about donald trump's cognitive as he called it of his own mental health, this guy has no guardrails on him. right? there's no consultant. there's no smart group of people around him that's like we really think you should talk about arnold palmer. and you know, this weekend. right? like, he's not on message. he's not controllable. so whether he's just an out of control crazy person or whether he's mentally declining, think about that four years from now. project that out to an 82-year-old donald trump with no one around him able to control him with the nuclear codes in the white house surrounded by mike lindell and rudy. that's a very scary prospect. i think if you look at the man we saw this weekend, it's scary enough. to project it out four years and that should be alarming to anybody who's not voted, just

thinking about what to do. >> tim, i used to say that where we are is that the republican party will say everything's fine as long as donald trump hasn't taken out his pee pee and played with it. he's talking about arnold palmer's penis on tv. not an investigative piece. a story about what he's doing at a podium in a battleground state in an election where in his view, in his telling, his own freedom would be on the line. it's uncomfortable. it's disgusting. it is literally one of the two choices before voters in 16 days. we want to thank vaughan hilliard for his extraordinary reporting in north carolina. we're going to bring the table in on all of this. they're not chomping at the bit to join the conversation, but that's what they signed up for. we're still waiting for the harris cheney event in harris.

and jennifer granholm will join the conversation. she was both the first female attorney general and governor of the state of michigan and knows how important that state is and has a feel for where peoples' heads are there. we'll talk to her about what she's seeing on the ground there and elsewhere as early voting has begun in states over the weekend and in michigan where the harris campaign is hoping to shatter another record. and why elon musk is offering $1 million a day as a get out the vote effort in the state of pennsylvania is raising a lot of questions among legal experts about its legality. we'll look closer at that story and more when deadline white house continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere today even if you want to. break. don't go anywhere today even if you want to. everything medicare has to offer, and much more. with a humana medicare advantage plan. humana has plans that can enhance your life in so many ways. it starts with peace of mind. humana's medicare

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tim and eddie are here, an extraordinary moment in our politics. >> oh, i mean, i think we were just discussing, first of all, the polls are so close and i think there is a sense of we do have a former president who is speaking about another man's, a late man's, penis on national television and you think to yourself how could this race be this close. and the closing message, the closing argument from the harris campaign at least, i've been following the democrats all year, is going to be fighting for those voters who are undecided. those voters who in handful of those battleground states, they don't like donald trump but they're on the fence about whether they're going to vote at all. they're hard to reach voters. and so a lot of what we're

seeing is the fight for those americans. i think one strategy, just watching these rallies that we see with donald trump, is to not just remind them who donald trump is, but to remind them that it is a choice between two individuals. that donald trump isn't just quote unquote another corruption politician because they're all corrupt, but that there is something much more dangerous about him. also just to, and i think harris has done this more in recent days and it's a smart pivot, to acknowledge there are very real reasons to feel alienated from political parties, from the political system. there are young americans who can't afford to go to college, can't afford to pay the rent, maybe can't afford to have kids. people who feel they can't get married yet because of that. people who are angry over the wars in the middle east. there's a lot to be upset about. but the message here is donald

trump is not the answer to any of these things. >> yeah. i think that she's done a thing. i think part of the reason people feel alienuated and you were talking about the groups whose trends worry you. the one thing that everyone who feels disaffected has in common in feeling alienated is feeling disrespected by our politicians and trump didn't respect you. the answer isn't someone who hates you so much he's out there being again, i want to quote vaughn's reporting, his unincumbered self. >> but he's doing a tricky magic. >> he's not that start. >> it's the history of the country. when you feel a sense of disrespect, a sense of grievance, you can displace it on to another. and so we're going to see right now a fire hose of lies, grievance and hatred going into november 5th all for one purpose and one only. that's to turn out his base. and so i don't know how you

respond to political camp at this level. when i use the word camp, i'm not talking about camping in the woods. i'm talking about susan sontag's camp. the stylization. all of the craziness that's coming out of donald trump's mouth is for one purpose and one only. that's to activate all of these folks. the lonely men in their basements. the folk who feel that the country is being overrun by immigrants. illegal aliens as it were. all of those folk who feel like they've lost their footing and lost ground because of others and you know, it's a generalized sense of disrespect but donald trump is tapping into a current that has deep grooves in this country. so i'm really worried. >> i think there's reason to be worried but i think we have to look at what the harris campaign has said and done. >> right. >> she has tried to solve that problem. donald trump killed it. she has acknowledged the pain of the middle class and we take her

rallies when they happen live and if anyone's seen anything, she's all about her own story and a solution for lifting people up and making it possible to buy a house and go to school and have kids and have place where they can go and be safe because childcare is so damn expensive. her campaign is about the answer to that. i think we have this collective trauma of watching trump get away with it. i don't think he's getting away with it. >> i hope you're right. i tend to be an optimist, actually, and i think any voter who is really engaging in good faith and paying attention is going to see exactly what you're talking about. that does actually make me feel a little better at this point in the game. what's a little disturbing is that again, some of these voters are very hard to reach. the campaign will tell you. knocking on doors as i have kind of following some candidates around, you know, not everybody is listening to what donald trump is saying. they're just angry. >> yeah.

>> and i think that is where the concern is. >> you know, i hear you and i think you're right but maybe it's because i'm writing this new book. i'm squarely in the end of it and what i do know is that when you have passions that are not driven by reason, defining politics, all hell breaks loose and we have a history of it. so everything you said presupposes rational political actors. >> not rational. i think people are, but i think even if they go with their emotions, he's not trying to solve any of their pain. he's not even speaking to it anymore. he's talking about around palmer's penis. >> so, as you rightly noted, i don't want to push back on this, but there's a sense in which the reference to around palmer's junk has everything to do with these disaffected feeling like

they've been femme nuysed men who are part of the white nationalist movements. i don't want to sound like a broken record but part of what i'm trying to think about here is that we're responding to donald trump as either being wholly unreasonable, crazy on earth two, which he is, and then we're not really dealing with the fact that the race, i mean, we are, but the race is really, really dead close. >> it is. tim, i'm going to give you a quick last -- >> sorry. >> we have to deal in reality but i think we, you know, our audience lives in reality with us. i think part of the reality is no one knows anything about anything anymore and that creates anxiety and the two parties do two different things with their anxiety. the democrats are here and the republicans are you know, i don't know, high on their own supply of trump. but the truth is people have a choice to make. people have all the agency in

the world. jack smith failed so that the voters could succeed. if they want to see someone held to the same standard as any of the rest of us would be, vote for the person who's not going to annihilate the rule of law. if they care about their son or daughter or father who served in the military and they want a commander in chief who doesn't think those that died and were injured are quote losers and suckers, they have someone on the menu. kamala harris, her campaign isn't about all this, the past. i wonder, tim, what your sort of feels are at this stage. >> my feels are we don't have enough time to talk about them. i'm full of anxiety. it shouldn't be this close. it shouldn't be this close. >> it is, it is. it is. we live in this totally bifurcated information. we're going to go to harris real quick but i want to give you the last word. >> here's why she's with cheney now. because she's trying to reach high trust individuals and trying to squeeze every last vote out of the people that are available that are rational and those voters are out there and

the campaign today combined those progressive values with these conservative, time honored themes. i think hopefully they are trying to deal with this. we don't know how to deal with the low trust guys in their basement by getting as many of the older voters, the former republicans as they can, and i think it's making a difference and that's what she's doing right now. >> at least six times. i believe what is at stake in this election is so fundamental for us as americans. and it is about do we take seriously the importance of a president who obeys the oath to be loyal to the constitution of the united states. do we prioritize a president of the united states who cares about rule of law? much less the spirit with which they approach this most powerful position. there's so much about this last era when i talk about turn the page, that's what i'm referring to. like the last decade that has

been about some powerful forces suggesting that the measure of the strength of a leader is based on who you beat down. instead of what i think most of us believe regardless of your party affiliation. that the real measure of the strength of a leader is based on who you lift up. and -- so for that reason, i'm not surprised that liz cheney and i are on the same stage. 15 days before the election. maybe you're not surprised, but i'm surprised and i think a lot of people are surprised so i want to know are you surprised? are you surprised that you're out here campaigns for a democrat? campaigning for kamala harris against the party that you've been a part of your entire life? >> you know, what i would say first of all is we all know, everyone who watched january

6th, knows you know, what donald trump is willing to do. he lost the election. he tried to overturn it and seize power. and then he sat in his dining room and he watched the attack on television. he watched it. people pleaded with him to tell the mob to leave and he wouldn't. he watched law enforcement officers be brutally beaten. he watched it. that's a depravity that, to me, and you know, i think to anyone who's taken the oath of office, makes someone absolutely unfit ever to be president again. now -- i could have just said you know, i'm going to do everything i can to work against donald trump and there are a lot of republicans who have said that. i have decided and i am very proud and i'm honored to have

made the decision to endorse vice president harris. and -- and i have gotten to spend time with vice president harris. i have had the chance to talk with her about how important it is that we have two strong parties in our country. about the kind of president that i know she'll be. i think all of us, it doesn't matter what party you're in. we all know this is a good and an honorable and a great nation and we have to have leaders. you might say i'm not going to agree on every issue. but we have to have leaders who take that seriously. we have to have leaders who are going to be sincere. and as a mother, i want my children to know that there is someone sitting in the oval office that they can look up to. someone who can be a role model.

i am incredibly proud and i know that vice president harris will be that. >> and maria, let me just add one thing, also. because it bears repeating. i have seen a lot of republicans go up to liz cheney and thank her. they may not be doing it publicly, they may not be doing it publicly because i think she has shown, to your point, extraordinary courage. especially in this environment post january 6th where there's something, an undercurrent that is violent. in terms of the language and the tenor. for her to show the courage she has shown is extraordinary, but she's, i've seen republicans come up to her and from my vantage point, she's actually not alone. >> so i want to talk about that because there are a lot of people who are scared. scared to vote. for you. scared about the environment. scared to talk about politics.

how scary was it for you personally to make this decision? what has been the personal cost for you to do so? >> it was not, it wasn't scary at all in terms of making this decision. because when i look at the nature of the threat that donald trump poses and look, donald trump is doing everything he can to try to get people to forget about what he did, what he did on january 6th. when you think about that level of instability, the level of erratic decision making, the misogyny, that's not someone that you can entrust with the power of the oval office. and so i think that we are facing a choice in this election that's not about party. it's about right and wrong. and i certainly have many

republicans who will say to me i can't be public. they do worry about a whole range of things including violence, but they'll do the right thing and i would just remind people if you're at all concerned, you can vote your conscious and not ever have to say a word to anybody and there will be millions of republicans who do that on november 5th. >> i love that you said you weren't scared at all because most people will talk today about i'm afraid to say anything on social media. i'm afraid to speak in my place of worship. i'm afraid to speak where i work. i'm afraid. how are you not afraid? >> well, i think that the point you're making is a really important one. think about what's happened in our country. the level of vicious, vitriolic

attack. when donald trump says that his political opponents are the enemy within and when he contemplates deploying force against them, the response that we all have should not be to be so afraid we don't act. it should be vote him out. defeat him. defeat him. vote for vice president harris. >> and i'm going to add to that. i would add to that an additional point which is i don't think it's a sick sense of humor. and relegate it to simply being that. you know, i've said many times i do believe donald trump to be an unserious man. but the consequences of him ever being in the white house again are brutally serious. take it from the people who know him best. his former chief of staff when he was president. two former defense secretaries.

his national security adviser and of course, his vice president. who have all in one way or another used the word that he is unfit to be president again and is dangerous. listen to the report that what his former chairman of the joint chief of staff, a general, said about him. that he is fascist to the core. and these are people who were in his administration who worked closely with him in the oval office and the situation room. so i would caution us also, because some people find it humorous what he says. and think it's just silly, but understand how brutally serious it is -- well, the courts will take care of that. we'll take care of november. yes. we'll take care of november. but it is brutally serious because to the congresswoman's

point, anyone who has openly said as he has that he would terminate the constitution of the united states should never again stand behind the seal of the president of the united states. never again. >> so, madame vice president, i wanted to ask you, several people that i talked to in preparation for this, when i asked them, they said well, i want to vote for the vice president but i just don't feel like i know her. i don't know enough about her. i see the ads but i don't have a feel for her. what are three things you could tell this audience about you that aren't in your ads, that people aren't telling people on the robo calls. that perhaps they just wouldn't know that might give them a feeling for who you are as a woman. >> how much time do we have? >> or at the kitchen table. >> i have lived a full life.

i am a wife. i am a mother. i am a sister. i am a god mother. i love to cook. i started my career as a prosecutor in large part there are many reasons but one very fundamental is when i was young, one of my best friends in high school i learned was being molested by a stepfather. i told her when i learned, she had to come live with us. talked to my mother about it. of course, she has to come live with us and she did. i decided i wanted to take on a career and a life that was about protecting the most vulnerable. i served as attorney general of california two terms. i was the top law enforcement officer of the biggest state in the country. and doing that work, it included prosecuting transnational criminal organizations for the trafficking of guns, drugs, and human beings. i did the work of taking on the big banks during the foreclosure

crisis and delivered $20 billion for homeowners who had been targeted with predatory lending practices. i took on the big pharmaceutical companies on behalf of consumers. as vice president of the united states, my priorities have been many, including to your point, the work you and i have done over the years. focusing on women's health. one of my priorities has been maternal mortality. i have only had one client in my career. the people. and my belief is that there is great nobility in public service. if one understands that they hold the office and the public trust. it is not about personal power. it is about what you can do that lifts up the condition of people. there is so much about how i think about my responsibility and i am here to ask for your vote s that i intend to be a

president for all americans. understanding that the vast majority of us have so much more in common than what separates us. this era that was kind of initiated by donald trump has not only been exhausting, it has been harmful to us as a nation. the notion that a president of the united states would encourage americans to point fingers at each other. that there would be a suggestion that we are a divided country. instead of knowing we have so much more in common than what separates us. i have as vice president met over 150 world leaders. presidents, prime ministers, chancellors, and kings. my most recent overseas trips as vice president, which were relatively close to the election, our allies have expressed real concern. i've shared this before.

you know, when we walk in a room representing the united states of america, we should walk in that room, especially leaders, chin up, shoulders back. knowing that we have the self-appointed and earned authority to talk about the importance of democracy and rule of law. but the thing about being a role model, all role models who are here, people watch what you do to see if it matches up to what you say. people around the world are watching this election, i promise you. and my one fear i have is i hope and i pray that we, the american people, understand not only what is at stake for us in the election, but how much we mean to the rest of the world. there is so much at stake in this election. >> liz cheney, tell us real quick i want to get to our first

question, but you've been traveling with the vice president. you've been working with her. you've been spending human time with her. tell the audience what you see that perhaps you know, the camera doesn't get or the ads don't get so they can get a sense of her that you have. >> well, i think that what i could tell you is what the vice president is saying about wanting to be a president for all americans, caring deeply about this country. those are things that come across very, very clearly and very directly. look, i'm a conservative. the very first campaign i ever volunteered in was for president gerald ford in 1976. and ever since then, i have been voting for republicans. i've never voted for a democrat. >> wow. >> and so the fact that i, i believe so strongly that in this election, in this election, we

need to elect the person who is the responsible adult. and we need -- and there is a lot both parties do it. there's a lot of vilification that goes on. i think it's really important for people to think very carefully about the power that we're going to invest in the president of the united states and what it would mean to give that power to donald trump. don't take my word for who he is. listen to him every day. look at what he did. remember that the people, as the vice president said, who are opposing him, are the people who know him best. the people who worked most closely with him. so i would just say i am, i know that the vice president has had the range of experience, has as

vice president, as senator, as attorney general of california, she's supremely qualified to be president of the united states. i think there are sometimes there are some men who suggest that she's not, but if you look at her qualifications, there's no question. and she's somebody that i know i can count on who will put the good of this country first. there's just no question. >> okay. i want to go over here to celia. can you stand up? you have a question. celia grew up in birmingham, michigan, which was a republican stronghold. she now lives with her husband. they're raising two children in berkley, michigan. and she's here with a question for the vice president. >> thank you both for coming to michigan today for this important event. i'd like to start by saying personally thank you,

representative cheney, for -- to you and your father for exemplifying putting country over party. [ cheers and applause ] and madam vice president, i hope you had a wonderful birthday yesterday. >> thank you. thank you. [ applause ] >> from the shootings at oxford high school to my alma mater, michigan state university, to an attack at a kids' splash pad this summer just a few miles away from here, the issue of gun violence hits very close to home for our community. just yesterday i learned from our school district that my preschooler will be going through his first active shooter drill this week. >> yeah. >> as a gun violence survivor and mother of two young children the issue of gun violence and the safety of my children in their schools and in our community is my top priority. madam vice president, if you are elected president and there is a republican majority in congress, how will you work with them to

make impactful and immediate progress around gun violence, especially in our children's schools? >> right. thank you, cecilia. and thank you for your courage to speak up about this. we have done it actually in the last four years. we had a bipartisan group of folks in congress who came together for the safer communities act, which is the first meaningful piece of gun safety legislation in 30 years. and so it's a good step, and it really does tell us that we have a will within the united states congress to work in a bipartisan way. and then congresswoman cheney was one of those republicans that actually voted for it. this is how i think of the issue. and it is through the lens of many experiences including -- i'm so sorry about your kids going through active shooter drills. our kids did. it's traumatic. that our children, you know -- growing up, i'll speak for

myself, we had fire drills. >> yeah. >> right? >> our children are now learning how to keep themselves safe if there's an active shooter at their school. i did a tour last year of colleges with college-aged kids. i also did some trade schools. and i would ask the room, the auditorium would be packed, college-age kids, and i'd ask them raise your hand if at any point between kindergarten and 12th grade you had to endure an active shooter drill. almost every hand went up. our kids are growing up where they are learning that they may be unsafe in the classroom. where they should be absorbing the wonders of the world. one kid said to me -- yeah, we were talking about this and they said to me that's why i don't like going to fifth period.

i said why, sweetheart? why don't you like going to fifth period? because in that classroom there's no closet. in which to hide. so when we think of this issue we must also consider the trauma that is -- the trauma, the direct trauma for those who have been directly affected by gun violence including to our kids who are in schools across our country doing this, not to mention their teachers, who want to teach and not also have to worry about will they be able to physically protect a child from a bullet. here's how i think about it in terms of the macro point. we have been pushing as a country i think a false choice that suggests you're either in favor of the second amendment or you want to take everyone's guns away. and that's a false choice. i'm in favor of the second amendment. i have talked about the fact both tim walz and i are gun owners. i also believe we need reasonable gun safety laws. assault weapons bans.

[ applause ] red flag laws. universal background checks. [ applause ] and reports say that the majority of nra members agree on, for example, universal background checks. what is a universal background check? it's just common sense. here what it is. you just might want to know before someone can buy a lethal weapon whether they've been found by a court to be a danger to themselves or others. you just might want to know. it's common sense. we need common sense gun safety laws. and i will continue. i've done it throughout my career. work with all of our colleagues across the aisle. and i know that we can make progress. but this is not -- i'm not trying to take anybody's guns away from them. but we need reasonable gun safety laws. >> okay. i want to come back to the issue of public safety in a minute, but first we want to go to martin. thank you, cecilia, very much. martin, a former republican

member of the michigan house of representatives. and he's here with a question about national security. >> thank both of you for being here this afternoon. i really appreciate your coming to the state of michigan to be here. i would like to ask what can the u.s. do politically, economically or militarily to deter russia from continuing its war on the independent nation of ukraine while simultaneously strengthening our own u.s. security interests? >> thank you, martin. >> go ahead. >> so i was actually in munich at the munich security conference delivering a speech when i first met with president zelenskyy of ukraine. and it was just days before russia invaded. i've now met with president zelenskyy i think seven times. because the united states has rightly taken a position as a

leader, a global leader on international rules and norms that we must stand in support of one of the most important international rules and norms, which is the importance of protecting sovereignty and territorial integrity, the importance of standing strong in opposition to the notion that in this case russia would attempt to change borders by force to invade another nation, a sovereign nation by force. and sadly, there is a huge difference between my opponent and me on this very fundamental issue. back to the conversation about there was a time when we used to -- there was a phrase that i'll paraphrase that basically politics ends at the sea line, at the boundaries of our country, that there are certain things, particularly matters of national security where it's not about partisanship, it's about where should america stand in terms of supporting our allies

and standing for certain principles. i'll give you as a point of reference for me in terms of how i feel about this on the partisan issue. for the four years that i was in the united states senate my favorite committee was the senate intelligence committee. and i served on that committee and we would meet in a room that's called a scif. it's basically -- it's a very secure room. no press, with all due respect, is allowed in, no cameras. everyone has to leave their cell phone outside. it's a bipartisan committee. and we would go in that room and receive classified information from america's intelligence community, sometimes our military leaders, about hot spots around the world and threats to our national security. and when we went in that room, and this is why it was my favorite committee, people would take off their suit jacket, roll up their sleeves, have a cup of coffee on the table. and we weren't democrats or republicans. we were americans.

and that is so important on a number of issues we are discussing this afternoon. but in particular on national security. my opponent, however, has made it a thing of his to admire dictators and autocrats around the world. he exchanged love letters with kim jong un. remember that? he has openly praised the president of russia, most recently the report is in the height of covid remember everyone was scrambling to get their hands on covid tests? remember when americans were dying by the hundreds every day and donald trump secretly sent covid tests to the president of russia for his personal use. he has said, donald trump, i will solve the matter of ukraine and russia in a day. read through and understand what

he is saying. he would surrender. he would have ukraine surrender its fight against an aggressor violating its sovereignty. if donald trump were president, vladimir putin will be sitting in kyiv. and understand what that would mean for america and our standing around the world. but thankfully there has been bipartisan support, and to your point of where you stand, on this very fundamental issue. but this is a very vivid example of what is at stake in this election because donald trump has been very clear. he would give away the shop. he has been manipulated and is so clearly able to be manipulated by favor and flattery. including from dictators and autocrats around the world. and america knows that that is

not how we stand, that is not how we fight. we fight in favorite of our strength and our role as a leader in bringing the allies together in standing for foundational and fundamental principles. >> congressman cheney -- [ cheers and applause ] i know kind of the issue of national security is one of the big reasons you're here and supporting the vice president. can you expand on that answer and add your thoughts to it? >> yeah. you know, i think if you look at where the republican party is today there's been a really dangerous embrace of isolationism, a dangerous embrace of tyrants. the president, you know, even just today, he heaps praise on the world's most evil people

while he attacks, you know, with venom his political opponents here at home. the reality is that since the end of world war ii america has led and we've led and that has been necessary to defend our freedom. we can't do it by ourselves, though. we need our allies. and when donald trump says that he's going to withdraw from nato, when he invites vladimir put tony invade nato, when he suggests that it's zelenskyy's fault that ukraine was invaded, for anybody who's a republican who is thinking that they might vote for donald trump because of national security policy i ask you please, please study his national security policy. not only is it not republican, it's dangerous. and without allies america will

find our very freedom and security challenged and threatened. and one final point on this. don't think that congress can stop him. people say, well, you know what, he can't really do the worst because congress will step in. all he has to do is what he's doing, is say i won't fulfill our nato treaty obligations, and nato begins to unravel. so it is an incredibly dangerous thing to think about a foreign policy and national security policy led by somebody who is as unstable as donald trump is, and it's a risk we just simply can't take as a nation. >> and i'm going to add for emphasis that let's also be clear on the subject specifically of ukraine. donald trump's approach would be to surrender. understand what that would mean. that is signaling to the president of russia he can get away with what he has done.

understand, look at the map, poland would be next. nato, our allies, the reason they have been so thankful for the position of strength they have taken in bringing the allies together is because they are fully aware of and remember, to the congresswoman's point, world war ii. remember, this concept of isolation, we were once there as a nation. and then pearl harbor happened. let's remember recent history. europe remembers it well. then when we got attacked, pearl harbor, we jumped in. and it is because america jumped in that we were ultimately able to win that war. and it should be a constant reminder to us, we have to remember history, that

isolationism, which is exactly what donald trump is pushing, pull out of nato, abandon our friends, isolation mds is not insulation. it is not insulation. it will not insulate us from harm in terms of our national security. so i say that to emphasize a point that the congresswoman made. and the other point i'd make is also check out where he's been on how he thinks about america's military. and service members. one of the great, great american heroes, a prisoner of war, john mccain. remember how he talked about john mccain? he said he didn't like him because he got caught. he's called members of our military suckers and losers. and then look at how some of the highest-ranking members of our military including what i mentioned earlier, the former chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, a dedicated member,

leader in america's military, how he has assessed donald trump. fascism to his core. >> there are your talking points for the kitchen table. [ applause ] >> our final question is from courtney. courtney, can you stand? courtney is -- courtney cabrera agruza is a wife, a mom, an attorney, and she's a proud chaldean and she is here with a question. courtney. >> thank you so much. good evening, madam vice president harris and representative cheney. my name is courtney cabara agruza and i am a first generation chaldean american. chaldeans are indigenous iraqis who are catholic, and we are predominantly in the metro detroit area. chaldeans are a very close-knit community, but the recent political climate has really begun to divide us.

while i know that you have discussed several bipartisan proposals over the course of your campaign, what would you say to people like myself who are part of these traditionally conservative communities who want to move forward but are feeling the pressures of the political divide? >> thank you. and i've actually met with members and leaders in the chaldean community. and thank you for being here. you know, i think that there is something at stake that is about core values as well as what is at stake in terms of the risk and the danger. and i would offer you an example of what i think would be an important issue that would affect the chaldean community and all americans. for example, the issue of how we think about health care in america. so i know enough about the culture to know that it is reflective of who we are as nernz general. we respect our elders.

we take care of them. so i will share with you a specific proposal that is an extension of how i think about things. i actually -- personal story. i took care of my mother when she was sick. and for anyone taking care of or who has taken care of an elder relative you know what that is. it's about trying to cook something they feel like eating. it is trying to find clothes that don't irritate their skin or help them put on a sweater. it's about trying to figure out something you can say that will bring a smile to their face or make them laugh. it's about dignity. and we now have in particular in our country a lot of people doing that and also raising young kids. we call them the sandwich generation, right in the middle. it's a lot. and the way the system currently works, while god willing you may have enough resources you may hire someone to come in and help. if not you may have to spend

down all of your savings to be able to qualify for medicaid. or you may have to quit your job to be able to do what you need to do to take care of your children and take care of your older relative. that's just not right and it's not fair. so part of my proposal and the plan is we're going to now reconfigure so that medicare covers home health care for our seniors. right? it's about dignity. so in addition to everything that we've discussed already about national security, what is at stake, something like this -- because i absolutely do believe america's ready for a new generation of leadership. that is taking on issues clear-eyed about what is going on that affects everybody. it doesn't matter their particular party. issues that are fundamentally about dignity, also about economic issues. and taking it on in a way that

we relieve the american people of the burdens that get in the way of productivity and a certain quality of life. and this is one example of that. i believe we need to have an economy that i call an opportunity economy where everyone has the opportunity to thrive, not just get by but get ahead. and this is one example i would offer. under the broader point, which is about let's move forward caking on problems from a common sense approach that is about just practical work. look, i am a capitalist. i am a pragmatic capitalist. i will work as i have with the private sector. i believe we have to invest in america's economy and america's industry and america's entrepreneurs. and we can at the same time take care of those that are the most in need of just a little support to be able to not just get by but get ahead. >> thank you, courtney.

liz, i just wonder, we have two minutes left. when you hear the phrase "a new way forward," when you hear "country over party," what does that mean to you? we're two weeks out. what does a new way forward mean for families like everybody here, for your children, my children, everybody's children, young men? >> yeah. >> what is it like? >> i think that we are at a moment now where when you think about america and the beacon of hope that we have been for so many years for so many communities, also how tremendously enriched we have been by communities, immigrants who want to come here and build a life, all of that depends upon fundamentally defending the rule of law. fundamentally defending our constitution. that's what makes all of our

opportunity and our freedom possible. and at the same time that we're that beacon for the world it's also because we're a good nation and because, you know, when you look at who our leader is going to be, what donald trump represents is in many ways just cruel and not the kind of dignity and the kind of person that we all want to be able to look up to. but what i would say is that if people are uncertain, if people are thinking, well, i'm a conservative, i don't know that i can support vice president harris, i would say i don't know if anybody's more conservative than i am. and i understand the most conservative value there is is

to defend the constitution. [ applause ] and if we don't come together to do that, then -- and so just to finish that i would say to me a new way forward is this. it's what you're seeing up here. it's having a president who will listen. having a president who will say i'm not necessarily sure i agree with you on this issue or that issue but let's talk about it. why do you want that policy? why do you believe that? someone who is willing to honor and respect all perspectives and points of views. and there's only one candidate in this race who does that, and that's vice president harris. [ cheers and applause ] >> in fact, a lot of polling of undecided voters who call themselves the exhausted majority said i just want leaders who listen to one another. i just want leaders who speak respectfully to one another. i want to see decency.

i want to see people i can look up to. and unfortunately, that's considered a new way forward, as representative cheney -- >> let's do that. let's do that. >> yeah. let's do that. a new way forward. the final word, madam vice president. everybody i talk to says i have to turn off the news, i can't read anything, i'm meditating, i'm doing yoga, i'm so anxious, i just don't even know, i'm eating gummies, all kinds of things. you know? what are you doing? what are you doing? >> not eating gummies. [ applause ] >> okay. we got that clear. but how do you -- i mean, how do you handle this -- the anxiety, the stress, the turmoil? everybody's freaked out. i talked to a gentleman out there, he's like i'm so scared. a woman's like i'm so anxious, i can't sleep. do you sleep? >> i wake up in the middle of

the night usually these days to be honest with you. but i work out every morning. i think that's really important, to just kind of, you know, mind, body and spirit. but let me just say this. -- >> say more about that. >> i will. i work out. i try to eat well. you know, i love my family and i make sure i talk to the kids and my husband every day doug and i have been kind of traveling -- we're trying to cover a lot of ground, so we're not with each other every day these days. but my family grounds me in every way. but if i can just speak to the -- what people are feeling. we cannot despair. we cannot despair. the nature of a democracy is such that i think there's a duality. on the one hand, there's an incredible strength when our democracy is intact.

an incredible strength in what it does to protect the freedoms and rights of its people. oh, there's great strength in that. and it is very fragile. it is only as strong as our willingness to fight for it. and so that's the moment we're in. and i say do not despair because in a democracy as long as we can keep it in our democracy the people, every individual has the power to make a decision about what this will be. and so let's not feel powerless. let's not less some -- i get it. overwhelming nature of this all. make us feel powerless. because then we have been defeated. and that's not our character as the american people. we are not one to be defeated. we rise to a moment and we stand

on broad shoulders of people who have fought this fight before for our country. and in many ways let us look at the challenge then that we are being presented and not be overwhelmed by it. the baton is now in our hands, to fight for, not against, but for this country we love. that's what we have the four to do. so let's own that. dare i say be joyful in what we will do in the process of owning that, which is knowing that we can and we will build community and coalitions and remind people that we're all in this together. let's not let the overwhelming nature of this strip us of our strength. that's how i feel about this. [ applause ] [ cheers and applause ]

>> so i want to -- i want to thank everybody here. you heard -- >> a historic day in american politics. the daughter of one of the most conservative figures in american presidential history, dick cheney, liz cheney not just making a case against donald trump but making a forceful case for vice president kamala harris, describing harris as the only adult in the race, the only person running who will protect america from tyrants. both vice president harris and liz cheney calling out donald trump's disrespect and attacks against the men and women of the

military. both talking about the importance of defending the rule of law and defending the constitution. both calling on our better angels to not allow donald trump to weaponize despair and hopelessness. the vice president making -- i think making the most forceful statement against the anxiety that many of us in the pro-democracy coalition feel by saying this at the end there. quote, we cannot despair. there's a duality of democracy. there's great strength when it's intact, but it is also very fragile. and it is, quote, only as strong as we are willing to fight for it. let us not feel powerless. the baton is in our hands to fight for this country we love. eddie glaude. >> i mean, that was pitch perfect. that moment she's saying it's in our hands, it always has been. >> agency.

we can do this. >> we are the leaders we've been looking for in some ways. that was really important. it was really important for me to hear. for me to hear. because you know, you have these moments where you kind of read the history into the present and you doubt and you despair but you have to have a fundamental faith in us. because you know, human beings are at once miracles and disasters. so we've got to pray for that miracle in this moment. >> we've lost tim miller. but a historic moment for liz cheney as well. i think liz cheney is more than a permission structure. liz cheney is sort of the inner narrative of the undecided voter. right? she's why we're doing this. and in her words, i understand -- quote, i understand the most conservative value there is is to defend the constitution. the new way forward is having a president who listens. there's only one candidate in this race who listens. >> yeah. i mean, the coalition of the

decent. right? all of whom are committed to the background conditions that allow us to disagree peacefully. right? and so there's this sense in which you don't want to use no labels because we know how it registers in the current political climate. but what does it mean to get beyond -- >> it means no tribes. >> exactly. >> it means doing what's right. this may also go down as the i'm eating gummies conversation. but the idea to take on the despair and the anxiety as a tool of the opponent and to hear from these two strong positive, not head in the sand leaders but understanding this moment perhaps better than anybody, this belief that together we can do this feels like a powerful, powerful statement. >> it is. and it's rooted i think in something really important. an acknowledgment we've been talking about. that this feeling of despair carries with it the trauma, that we're fragile, that we're

vulnerable. that our exhaustion isn't just with politics, our exhaustion is with life. >> it's hard to be human. >> it's hard. can it's been hard. it's been hard. and to hear that kind of language, all too human language was really important. although i would never in my life think that i would be celebrating liz cheney. but in that moment that conversation was really powerful. >> eddie glaude, thank you. you signed up for one hour. we kept you for 1 1/2. thank you very much for being so generous. >> thank you. >> we kept everyone so long, we lost tim miller and mara gay. but we thank them, especially for the first conversation. coming up after a quick break for us, why oh why is the world's richest man offering $1 million to voters at trump rallies? the strange, possibly illegal gambit from elon musk and what it says about the ties between him and the ex-president. that story's next. here to help you

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i've known elon for over 20, 25 years. one of america's great entrepreneurs and innovators. but this is not the person i knew even two years ago. and with respect to elon, i just don't have the confidence that there's other things that he's not up to behind the scenes. not just again what he's expressing quite publicly. and i'm very concerned about a country where people like elon musk, others that are sucking up to donald trump, that will undoubtably be carved out of

regulations, undoubtably get massive, even larger federal contracts. and it is an american oligarchy that can be formed here. it's again very, very serious. >> it's not just a lighthearted bromance or friendship between billionaires. the strategic partnership between donald trump and elon musk could have severe consequences for american democracy. the richest man in the world has put his support behind the twice impeached, many times indicted, disgraced ex-president, raising millions of dollars for trump's presidential campaign through his super pac, spreading dangerous conspiracies through the social media platform he owns. and in turn trump has promised him the lead role of i government efficiency commission in a future trump administration should trump win. it's an arrangement that raises a lot of questions as musk's deals and conflicts with the u.s. government run deep. "the new york times" today reports on those connections.

quote, mr. musk's rocket company spacex effectively dictates nasa's rocket launch schedule. the defense department relies on him to get most of its satellites to orbit. his companies were promised $3 billion across nearly 100 different contracts last year with 17 federal agencies. his entanglements with federal regulators are also numerous and adversarial. his companies have been targeted in at least 20 recent investigations or reviews including over the safety of his tesla cars and the environmental damage caused by his rockets. this weekend he added another complication, shall we say, to the mix. while campaigning for the ex-president in pennsylvania musk may have committed voter fraud in plain sight. >> so every day between now and the election we'll be awarding a million dollars, starting

tonight. so tonight's person is john brenner. [ applause ] the only thing we ask for the million dollars is that you be a spokesperson for the petition. and that's it really. >> again, all on camera. what you saw was elon musk offering $1 million a day not just to anybody but to a registered voter in a hugely critical swing state. if that sounds fishy, it's because it likely is. ucla law professor rick hassen says musk is veering into clearly illegal vote buying. the justice department is declining to comment on whether it is taking a look at the legality of what musk is doing. but trump, who has not shied away from lavishing praise on his billionaire buddy as of

late, notably did not have much to say when asked by reporters yesterday about the lottery. he said, quote, i haven't even followed that. joining our coverage rick hasen who we just mentioned is here. he's a ucla law frofrs and nbc news election law analyst. also joining us staff writer for the atlantic franklin foer, whose new piece answers the question what elon musk really wants. let's deal with that first, franklin. what does elon musk really want? >> well, first of all, he is an egomaniac. he is a very rich man. and i think he's living out a fantasy that many in silicon valley have, which is that they have such a high estimation of their prowess, their ability to reengineer society, their ability to run things better than the rest of us, here he's got this incredible opportunity to merge his super intelligence with the most powerful apparatus in human history, which is the american state. and of course there are these really obvious conflicts of interest where he has these huge

contracts with the government, which would presumably only get bigger in a trump administration. there are these regulatory and legal threats against him which he would be insulated against in a trub administration. but i think there is this broader opportunity where trump has essentially invited him into the government to redesign the government. so you're giving this engineer this opportunity to redesign the government to make everything more efficient, to do things in his own image essentially. and that is a hugely worrying thing because he believes in dismantling large parts of the social safety net, the regulatory state, and also he's got this incredible grandiose vision for where things could go that he very undemocratically would be able to impose from a position like the one that trump has proposed handing to him. >> franklin, there's something -- we just had the picture up of elon musk leaping, or cheering, i don't know what verb we're going with for this picture on the screen. and what i see is the absence of

mike pence and anyone that served with donald trump. i mean, that he's replaced all the people that saw him in the sit room or in the tank with this strange-looking billionaire from the tech world who has no idea what the pain is of living paycheck to paycheck or having your kids move back in with you and buying groceries for them and their -- i mean, the idea that donald trump thinks that elon musk reinforces something of his political narrative that will help him win is lost on me. explain the more sort of -- the spiritual connection between the two because i don't get it. >> i was thinking when you mentioned mike pence. remember when we thought he woz lick spit'll? he's essentially spending a million dollars a day not just in the name his abiding love of democracy but it's on behalf of

a very sordid idea of citizenship where people are essentially enticed to support trump with financial incentives. this is something the founders would be rolling around in their graves. it's the definition of anti-democratic. but he's not just doing this in order to help donald trump win the white house. it's a form of ingratiating himself to donald trump even further. this is all just one giant move to suck up to this guy on whom he's already bet everything. musk has relocated to pennsylvania. he's essentially funded and invented trump's get out the vote operation. he's essentially saying look, if you win, donald trump, everything is attributed to me. he's amassed the biggest chit any donor could ever imagine building up. that means if trump does get elected then musk has every right to expect massive, massive rewards in return. >> only in trump's america,

right? we wouldn't say that about anybody else. let me deal with the legality. here's josh shapiro on "meet the press" yesterday, rick. >> i think there are real questions with how he is spending money in this race, how the dark money is flowing not just into pennsylvania but apparently now into the pockets of pennsylvanians. it is deeply concerning. look, musk obviously has a right to be able to express his views. he's made it very, very clear that he supports donald trump. i don't -- obviously we have a difference of opinion. i don't deny him that right. but when you start flowing this kind of money into politics i think it raises serious questions that folks may want to take a look at. >> so rick, what are some of the those questions that the governor's alluding to? >> well, the federal law's clear that it's against federal law to pay someone to vote or to register to vote.

now, what musk says he's doing is he's paying people to sign his petition and he's also letting people enter into this million-dollar lottery who sign the petition. but who's eligible to sign the petition? you have to be a registered voter in one of the swing states. so essentially this is a lottery open only to registered voters. it's either an inducement to get someone to register to vote who's not registered or it's a reward. and federal law says you can't do that. so this to me, unlike some of the earlier things that musk was doing, this to me seems a clear violation of the federal statute. >> let me read the statute that you have referenced. "whoever knowingly or willfully conspires with another individual for the purpose of encouraging his false registration to vote or illegal voting or pays or offers to pay or accepts payment either for registration to vote or for voting shall be fined not more

than $10,000 or imprisoned not more than five years or both." it feels like musk is also endangering the voters and the people of pennsylvania. would you be surprised if law enforcement looked into this? does this seem to clearly violate that law? >> well, i think the department of justice needs to look into it. and you know, in order to be criminally liable for any of these election law violations you have to willfully be violating the law. i don't think someone who signs musk's petition really understands the intricacies of the law. but coverage of what musk has tried to do since saturday night has been extensive in every major news outlet. he's at least on notice that his conduct may be illegal, and yet he's going ahead and doing it anyway. what i would like to see because the department of justice generally moves very slow is for them to make a statement. just like they made a statement that states shouldn't be engaged in large-scale purges in the period just before the election

because that violates federal law, a lottery open only to registered voters or a lottery for people who vote is something that is against federal law. they could say that. i'm not sure why they're not. >> rick hashassen, franklin foe thank you for spending time with us. to be continued i fear. when we come back election officials are working to fend off all kinds of attacks against poll workers including many from people sowing lies about our elections. people like elon musk. after the break one of those officials will join us here. she's crossed swords with elon musk over the last 24 hours. it's michigan secretary of state jocelyn benson. "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. inues after a. don't go anywhere.

it is without a shred of doubt or debate the most basic, most fundamental, most essential of our american civic duties. and in 15 days your neighbors, members of your community, you, your family, your kids, your parents, you'll carry it out. and it's voting and then the counting of votes on election day. but this year what has always been a thankless job is now a profoundly dangerous job as well. so when high-profile personalities like elon musk willfully lie and spread verifiably false information on their pet project, the media platform they bought, about there being more registered voters than eligible citizens in michigan like he did this

weekend for instance, not only is elon musk contributing to a foundational erosion of democracy, he's putting real people in danger. joining me at the table, michigan secretary of state jocelyn benson. i know you sought to set the record straight, but tell me about this back and forth you had with elon musk. >> well, it struck me as kind of odd and just sad that someone who has such power and influence would use that power and influence not to help educate people about how to vote in this moment or how to even just ask questions if you have them about election security but instead attack an election official in a swing state who's trying her best, as i am, to make sure everyone no matter who they vote for can have rightly placed faith in our elections. >> did he try to ask you, did he try to -- because i know your response was simply about facts. is he interested in facts in this exchange that you witnessed? >> not in what i witnessed. i certainly always hope that people would be interested in facts and the law, which is sort of what i responded to. in michigan we're focused on the truth and following the law and

i suggest he focus on those two things too. >> if he wanted to talk to you about what the truth and the facts are and put that information on x, would you meet with him? >> of course. i would welcome that. i think all of us would. because we want to get the truth out there. we know that our elections are secure. we know the results of our election, no matter what they may be, will be a reflection of the will of the people. and for someone to use a powerful platform like twitter or x to promote those actual facts would be great for all of us. >> so just to be clear, you are open to sitting down with or zooming with elon musk to get the facts out about michigan if he wants to use his platform to spread the facts? >> yeah. look, misinformation lends itself to sound bites much better than the nuances of election law often do, but at the same time if people want to know just how secure our elections are we'll welcome all of us i would say on behalf of all my colleagues, democrats and republicans, we're happy to have that conversation because we know that relying on democracy is not a partisan thing, it's not a democrat or republican thing, and we know that if the facts are out there and as

people become more educated they can have that rightly placed faith in our work. >> tell me how michigan feels. >> exhausted. but also energized. i mean, because in some ways -- i mean, we're a gritty state. we rise to the occasion just like our football team does. and so in this moment i think there's a lot of noise in our state on all sides but there's also a lot of energy. people are voting. we already have over a million citizens voting in this election. in detroit we saw record-breaking turnout the first day of early in-person voting on saturday. so it's really exciting to see. i hope it holds in the next two weeks. and that's really what i also try to focus on in moments like this. the threats are exhausting. the challenges are tough. but what a joyful thing to be able to do in this moment to elect the next president of the united states and to have that path run right through our state. so i feel a lot of pride in that. i think a lot of michiganders do too. >> what are you doing to protect yourself and your staff? >> increasing our security significantly. talking with law enforcement at the state, federal and local

level to make sure all of us have a plan and know exactly what to do if and when a threat or disruption escalates. we've held trainings with local clerks across the state to scenario plan. we are hoping for the best but planning for every contingency and we'll continue to do that up until and after the polls close november 5th. >> what, is it you're sort of watching the battlegrounds -- and vice president harris dealt with this at this event with liz cheney and maria shriver earlier, the anxiety. she had an admonition. she said do not despair. and i know from talking with ruth ben-ghiat and others despair is the tool of the autocrat. what is your message to voters? >> all of the noise, all the chaos, all the confusion, all of the threats, all the attacks, it's all designed to deceive us and divide us and cause us to disengage. so the best counter to that is to not be fooled by the lies, become a critical consumer of information, and engage in democracy in this moment with pride to determine our future

together. and i hope that we all as we enter this final two weeks of this election cycle, we all have the future of our country in our hands. and so i hope we make our votes a reflection of our desire to define this future in a way that uplifts the truth skpel vaits leaders who will bring people together rather than divide and respect women, respect citizens. if we can all do that i think that's our path forward, our way forward as a country. and i know we've seen leaders today like liz cheney and others talk about just that. >> it's always great to get to talk to. i know you'll get busier and busier, but please keep talking to us. >> happy to. thanks for having me. >> thank you so much for being here. michigan secretary of state jocelyn benson with an open invitation to elon musk to share the truth on his mighty platform if he wants to. when we come back, vice president kamala harris continues to reach across the aisle promising to be a president for all americans and finding common ground and listening to people on all sides of the political spectrum is something our dear friend fred guttenberg has been doing too.

he'll be our guest next.

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and thank her and they may not be doing it publicly, they may not be doing it publicly because i think she has shown extraordinary courage. i've seen republicans come up to her and from my vantage point, she's actually not alone. >> make no mistake about it, what happened today on the campaign trail is historic. that was vice president kamala harris and former congresswoman liz cheney, making their pitch to voters in a trio of swing states today. the candidate for all people, from all parties, appearing alongside liz cheney, who, like so many republicans is voting for a democratic candidate for the first time in her life. it's an extraordinary display of patriotism and bipartisanship in the face of deep cynicism, deep division in our country. division that our dear friend, frank guttenberg is seeking to change. his national tour with former

republican councilman joe walsh, it wraps up tomorrow. i've been following every stop . you both are doing exactly what liz cheney and kamala harris are doing and that is with humility and affection and respect for one another, giving people hope that it doesn't have to be this way. >> it's crazy that i love joe walsh, you know, we spent years doing this, you know, and until one day, and he made the first reach out, but when we started talking and realizing we had each other wrong and there is space for common ground, even between guys who are politically are incredibly different, we realized it was something important because that is what democracy is about, nicolle, i am so flipping test that there is a candidate running for president

says the things he says, who lies every day, who does think his voters are really stupid, to be quite honest. you can't lie and actually know that you are going to get their votes unless you are so cynical and think they are stupid. and mike johnson was clear this weekend that he feels the same way about the voters and it me off. joe and i are doing what we are doing because we remain hopeful. if we keep explaining why this election matters so much, we are going to be okay. and so, tomorrow, we have the final event of our two dads defending democracy, before the election. we hope to continue it post election, if democracy survives. and if everybody listening to this interview just as a really

simple thing, vote, and get everyone you know to vote, we will be okay. >> i always think of you, now i think of you like joe walsh on her side and jamie on your shoulder. what are you thinking about when you go out there and pour your heart and soul into this. >> so, you showed kamala harris, i walked kamala harris through the school where my daughter was murdered back in march, i gave her every chance to say no to do it because the school is still an untouched crime scene. jamie would love kamala harris. jamie would be all in on this and what she stands for, jamie had what i would call the greatest detector in the world and in 2016 she was screaming at the television saying, people, are you crazy, can you not see what that man is about, that hasn't changed. so right now, i know jamie is

standing on my shoulders and on this country's shoulders saying there is one more thing we need to do. we've already started the work, bipartisan safer communities act, office of gun violence prevention led by the vice president, by the way, violent crime is historically down and i know, jamie doesn't get here to say it herself but i am her voice. if we vote, the work continues, if we don't, the work stops. i can't make it any more simple than that. vote. >> you are a girl dad forever, and i keep thinking and i've said this, i think girl dad are the silent sleeper vote, they see trump is, they see him talking about another man's and they call vice president harris a president, they see them

dying in pregnancy and childbirth because of trump's pics to the supreme court. what conversations do you have with other girl dad. >> donald trump is demented. and he says things that none of us should want our daughters to hear from another man, okay, he believes men want to hear that, he believes that men want to see his performances, he is a demented full, and i don't believe men think that way. i don't believe that men want their daughters to date or marry man like that. and so, i'm with you, i think dads of daughters, but some salsa because you know what, i'm a dad who raised both of his children with a simple motto, always do what is right

and not what is easy. you have to live with yourself at the end of the day. i think men and women across america whether you are in a red or blue area, they understand that basic premise of life. we should be ashamed that donald trump uses performative art to try and destroy this country that we love, okay, we should be ashamed that this race is as close as it is but you know what? 14 days, 15 days, 16 days, people just need to vote and don't just worry about yourself, get everyone else you know, to vote. let's have epic voter turnout, let's put an end to donald trump's campaign to destroy america forever. >> fred, as only you can put it. thanks for being here at the table. >> thanks, nicolle. >> a quick break for us. we will be right back. back.

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