this was his bread and butter. remember, he launched his re-election campaign at valley forge. this was the speech that he gave, and people, for a while, were like, no one cares about this stuff. it's not going to move the dial. talk about domestic issues and inflation. yeah, harris has talked about those, too, but to close on this, this is a biden esque close, i will say. to your point, it resonates with older voters. it also resonates with the cheney types, right? harris is making a very clear, aggressive play for that swath of the electorate. that's why you see this so heavily emphasized down the end stretch here. >> i expect we'll hear from biden when he travels through new hampshire and arizona this week. managing editor at "the bulwark" -- >> wasn't so bad. >> the very best, sam stein. and thank you for getting up "way too early" with us on this tuesday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. i come to this decision as a

mother. i have five children. there was a moment right after january 6th when my husband and i were having dinner with our two youngest, our two sons. i looked across the table at my young sons, and i thought to myself, you know, in the aftermath of the attack on the capitol, are they going to grow up in a country where we don't have to worry about the peaceful transfer of power? are they going to grow up in a country where that is guaranteed? and i believe that every one of us in this election has a duty and an obligation to do what we know is right for the country, and that's to support vice president harris. i'm very honored to be here and to do that. >> thank you. >> former republican congresswoman liz cheney yesterday in pennsylvania explaining part of her reasoning for supporting vice president kamala harris. the pair made stops in three crucial swing states, bringing a

bipartisan message to voters. >> yeah, that's something, isn't it? >> yeah, and at this point, it is about the next generation and what's the world they're going to grow up in? this election could make that decision for them. they're a part of it. >> really could. willie, that scene we just saw, it's remarkable, it's history coming to life. for me, as a conservative, it's the conservative text that has been on my desktop as a young lawyer, as a member of congress. my desktop, still mika will tell you, has "the conservative mind." russell kirk sums it up. we are not to be a party of ideology. we're a party that upholds the constitution. we are the protectors of institutions. and the line that really kind of, for me, somebody who has

read this his entire life but really never seen it have to come into play, russell kirk concludes "the conservative mind's" intro, the last introduction that he wrote in 1986, seventh eedition, where h said, "sometimes we conservatives have to decide whether we are going to attach ourselves to the party of permanence or the party of progress. and our decision is based upon the facts that are before us." that is what real conservatives do. they look at the world as it is, not through some hyperidealogical lens, and they decide, what protects the country? what protects the constitution? what protects customs and conventions the best? >> freedom. >> it's not a perfect choice all the time, but that's a decision

real conservatives make. that's what liz cheney is doing. real conservatives love their country and want it to continue and want the constitution to endure. >> first of all, it was a striking visual, to see vice president harris and congresswoman liz cheney on a stage together, knowing that harris has cheney's support, his dick cheney's support, given the history of the cheney family in the republican party, the way democrats felt about them historically. it is quite an image. but liz cheney, you're right, joe, is making the case to the nikki haley republicans, to those mitt romney republicans, those john mccain republicans, george w. bush, h.w. bush, reagan republicans, and reminding them, this is who we are. this is who we have been. we defend the constitution. we push back against aggressors like russia. we want legal immigration in this country. it's an important part of who we are, as ronald reagan said in his farewell speech as he left the white house. she's saying, effectively, i

haven't changed. all the people around me in this republican party, at least in the maga movement, they are the ones who have changed. they are the ones who are following an autocrat down this path. and she said, you don't have to do this. here is the way. she said even, you know, you can go to the quiet of that ballot booth and vote your conscience, and no one has to know what you did. if it is unusual in your kitchen table, your community, to vote for kamala harris or to not vote for donald trump, no one has to know. go in the box, and vote your conscience. that was her message in the barnstorming tour yesterday with kamala harris. >> willie, you were working yesterday elsewhere, so we didn't get a chance to talk about everything that happened. to attach a line from what liz cheney said to what we're saying about conservatives wanting to uphold the constitution and

madisonian democracy, over the weekend -- and i'm curious what your weekend was -- donald trump repeatedly saying that he was going to go after his political opponents, that they were the enemy within. that nancy pelosi was the enemy within. that schiff was the enemy within. that cbs news should be shut down. all of these anti-democratic, all of these pro-autocratic aligns that donald trump is putting in all of his interviews and seemingly all of his speeches. again, what's jarring to me is he's been pushed back on by sean hannity, but he doubled down. he's been pushed back on by laura ingraham, but he's doubled down. he's pushed back by howie, doubled down. harris faulkner, doubled down. he is laying the precedent. why else would somebody make statements that were against their interest, which is, i'm

going to be an autocrat. i am going to call, you know, my opponents enemy combatants, the enemy within, and go after them, which he keeps promising to do. even as conservative, well, pro-trump, fox news hosts keep saying, "but you don't really mean that, do you?" he says, "yes, i do." what does that mean for americans? >> yeah, that's the common interview we've seen on fox news, where the interviewer tries to coach donald trump to the right answer, and he refuses. my reaction is, how many times does he have to say these things before people start to believe him? these are not one-offs, not slips of the tongue. this is his campaign narrative, that he'll seize power and do what we wants with it. believe me, all the people there now, who provide some kind of a bumper or a guardrail against his autocratic tendencies are going to be long gone. they'll be installed because

they'll go along with what he says. the arnold palmer comments got a lot of attention over the weekend. they were strange and amusing in respects, some projection there, obviously. what was more serious was what you said, joe, which was the repeated, again, not one-offs, repeated insistence about what he is going to do with his power should he get it back. >> yeah. and he keeps making that promise. mika, it's -- in making that promise, he is, again, laying a precedent. and as bill maher said this weekend, he said, it's not trump derangement syndrome to quote donald trump. that's what people say, you have trump derangement syndrome because you're saying these crazy things. no, all we're doing is quoting what donald trump keeps saying, even when fox news hosts keep trying to push him off of it. >> right. >> and that's a promise.

>> it's also -- >> it is almost his closing campaign statement. >> right. it is also a playbook to have fox news back him up, avoid it, whatever, say he didn't mean it, but to say these things that are literal and dangerous and true. he's carried out similar threats before. we've seen it. also, as you mentioned, willie, to sort of pepper them with crazy talk about genitalia and other things that distract people. perhaps they'll focus on it, his swaying and sitting there for 39 minutes. that's disturbing. not as disturbing as saying you'll use the military to go after your political rivals. as we get to some new polls from ap and norc, one final point about kamala harris and liz cheney and seeing them up on stage together, talking about democracy and talking about the dangers of a second trump administration. i just found it striking, as well, to see two women of wisdom

and experience, from two completely different backgrounds and two completely different points of view being the example. holding up the pillars of freedom together. it was really impreimpressive, hope young women everywhere, and everyone takes a look at what they are doing right now in this moment where what is needed is strength to stand up and speak out, and not to cower. >> real strength. >> exactly. >> real strength, real compassion, and a real love of our constitution. along with joe, willie, and me, we have the host of "way too early," white house bureau chief at "politico," jonathan lemire. u.s. special correspondent for bbc news, katty kay. pulitzer prize winning columnist and associate editor of "the washington post," eugene robinson. and msnbc contributor and author of the book "how the right lost its mind," charlie sykes.

let's get to that new polling that shows the democratic ticket of kamala harris and tim walz. remains more favorable than their republican counterparts. the latest poll of registered voters finds 51% has a favorable view of the vice president. a five-point net positive and 41% have a favorable view of her running mate, a four-point net positive. compare that to 40% who have a favorable view of donald trump. underwater by 18 points. just 33% view his running mate, jd vance, favorably, down 15 points. >> the ap poll also looked at the top economic issues and finds that voters feel harris, get this, such a dramatic, dramatic shift, voters feel harris is better to handle taxes on the middle class. harris is better to handle jobs

and unemployment, as well as the cost of housing. that is a radical shift. trump has a slight edge on issues like cost of groceries and tariffs, but those are within the margin of error. i want to go to charlie sykes. two things to look at here in this ap poll. such a dramatic shift on favorability ratings. trump upside down 18 points. harris is actually plus, what is she, plus 3, plus 4? plus 5. this is something we talked about on this show. this is something people watching may not pay as close of attention to. this is highly unusual, not only in american politics, that you have a leader who is plus five in favorability ratings in the campaign, but this is highly

unusual in western democracies. we talked about an "ft" article from last year that talked about the leaders all across europe. you know, in the 30s with favorability. they're wildly upside down. yet people like macron still win elections. here, this tells a story. we're going to be talking about jim geraghty who had a great column yesterday talking about how kamala harris is always underestimated by the right. she's always been underestimated by the left. she somehow manages to keep winning elections, which reminds me of what newt gingrich said after joe biden once again shocked democrats -- i mean republicans, by saying we always underestimate joe biden. to our detriment. now, they're doing the same with kamala harris. talk about all of this, her favorability, those numbers on

the economy, which the harris campaign has to be very happy about. they've been seeing it in internal polling for some time. also the event you went to yesterday with liz cheney and kamala harris. >> let me start right there. you're absolutely right. i was sitting on stage with kamala harris and liz cheney and thinking to myself, don't overlook how remarkable this is. what an extraordinarily odd couple this is. also, what a remarkable political moment. you have people from opposite sides of the political spectrum who are joining hands and saying, this is not a normal election. this is not a normal contest between liberal and conservative, republican and democrat. look at this man. look at what he is doing. you know, it really is interesting, watching kamala harris introducing herself to voters who i think may have been skeptical. this took place in brookfield, wisconsin, which is the, you

know, beating heart of red wisconsin. i mean, in the wow counties. she went into the belly of the beast. i think one of the things she's been doing since she got into the race is introducing herself. i think some of those numbers reflect the fact that the voters just didn't have a clear vision of who she was, what her personality was. you know, they may have seen youtube clips,progress. i was able to talk to voters afterwards about their reaction. it feels as if she is getting her sea legs in this campaign and more and more confident in presenting herself. i have to say, and i can't emphasize too strongly, what a bold move it is for her to be really aggressively pushing this big tent, you know, that is at the closing argument, to say that we are really trying to put

together a bipartisan coalition. we're reaching out to people who may not have ever voted for a democrat in their life, who spent their lives voting for reagan, ford, bush, mccain, romney, and cheney. they're asking them to vote for kamala harris. that was extraordinary. i think you are seeing that she is making some headway in introducing herself to the electorate at the very time when donald trump continues to put on one display of his deploability after another. >> we'll see more of that in a moment during his appearances in north carolina yesterday. eugene robinson, you look at the favorability number, the new one from ap. >> yeah. >> that matters. if you're on the fence, you step in, you say, which one of these two do i actually like? which one do i want to see for the next four years? it's a gut thing. to watch vice president harris, she knows she has to turn out her base. as charlie said, she's also trying to give a home to voters

in the republican party, independents who just can't spring themselves to push the button for donald trump. liz cheney is helping in that regard, but trying to expand beyond the base to win the three states she was in yesterday, pennsylvania, michigan, and wisconsin. >> absolutely, willie. let me go back to the cheney/harris appearance. you know, i had the same reaction that mika did. those are two just amazingly strong and powerful women on that stage. and i just felt really proud of that moment. they were carrying thebanner of our democracy as we know it and doing that so well. look, those favorability numbers have to be really, really welcome news to the harris campaign. i'm sure they're happy about that. at the same time, at this point

of the campaign, they have to have, you know, david plouffe and the number crunchers doing all the granular work, sort of county by county. making sure they know who their voters are and who they still want to get. but that really says a lot, the contrast in favorability is usually a significant indicator. if it is this year, it is very, very welcome news for vice president harris. >> it's also an extraordinary effort by the vice president to try to win over these republicans. they spent a lot of time and resources there. on one hand, it shows how close the election is, and also the campaign clearly sees an opening. katty, let's talk about the economic numbers, though. writ large, the poll suggests americans relatively unhappy with how things are going. 60-odd percent of americans say they don't feel good about the economy. that said, it is an 11-point

improvement, as we can see there, from a year ago. that is trending in the right direction. then when we see the individual categories, though, as joe and mika mentioned at the top, harris has really made inroads. she's ahead of trump in a few categories and pulled even in others or narrow deficits. you know, for so many voters, including potentially those suspected republicans, the economy is going to be the make or break issue. this seems like it is heading in the right direction here in the campaign's final fortnight for harris. >> it is interesting how many polls have asked people both about the economy and about inflation, kind of separating out those two issues. when you talk to voters, it is really the inflation numbers that are bothering people the most. out in somewhere like nevada, "the new york times" has done very good research on reporting on this. rent prices have gone up by multiples since covid, and people are really struggling. the one defining issue in that state for people in the las vegas area is rent.

it's interesting to see there, kamala harris pulling ahead on rent. this had been a concern for the campaign, that if people were that dissatisfied with prices, they'd blame the biden administration and, by extension, kamala harris. she'd get pinned with this. either she's done a good job of separating herself sufficiently from president biden in the last four years where we've had this inflation, or her proposals on things like giving $25,000, as she now has repeated a lot, to first-time home buyers, that's something impact, too, on people looking at housing as their biggest concern. i'd be interested to see how much in the last two weeks, especially with the jobs report that's going to come out jex just before election day, how it might affect people on the mood of the economy, how she leans into the economy in the last two weeks. >> absolutely. we have so much more to get to. ahead on "morning joe," jd vance is attempting to defend donald trump's comments about

some democrats being enemies from within. we'll show you his new remarks on that. plus, there's a new effort to warn voters about the threat of artificial intelligence ahead of the upcoming election. ken dilanian joins us with more on that. "morning joe" is back in 90 seconds. ♪ limu emu & doug ♪ woah, limu! we're in a parade. everyone customize and save hundreds on car insurance with liberty mutual. customize and sa— (balloon doug pops & deflates) and then i wake up. and you have this dream every night? yeah, every night! hmm... i see. (limu squawks) only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

22 past the hour. welcome back. during an interview on fox news yesterday, donald trump's running mate, senator jd vance, was asked about the former president continuing to refer to his democratic opponents as enemies from within. take a look at how he defended trump's remarks. >> he keeps coming back, asked about these enemies from within comments. i've read all of it. i've listened to all of it. it is hard for me to know what he really means about it. but that's not my question. my question is, why is it necessary? >> well, bill, first of all, donald trump is unfiltered. i think it's one of the reasons why the campaign has gone well, is because he's not doing a basement campaign strategy. he is not just running on slogans. when people ask him questions, he speaks from the heart. when we had these terrible riots in the summer of 2020, 20 people died, $13 billion in property damage. why wasn't law enforcement

empowered to put down these riots, to reimpose law enforcement on american cities? that's, to me, what president trump is talking about here. look, we've obviously got some very important enemies to focus on overseas, but if people are burning down our cities, of course, we have to have a police response. >> in this case -- >> -- violation of our right of public -- >> he mentioned adam schiff and nancy pelosi in this case over the weekend. >> yeah, bill. look, you have adam schiff and nancy pelosi who have been really part of weaponizing the department of justice against our country. i think what donald trump is saying is, look, we are the strongest country in the world. we've got the best people in the world. but we do have some broken leadership. we have people like nancy pelosi who is getting rich off of insider stock trades, even as her own country has gotten poorer. who is obsessed, nancy pelosi is obsessed with donald trump, not with reimposing policies that are going to deliver peace and prosperity to the american people. of course, like i said, we do have people on the left, not

most people, to be clear, but some people on the left who are encouraging violent responses to what we believe is going to be a donald trump victory in a couple of weeks. that is not okay. i think it is totally reasonable for the president to point out that, yes, we've got the strongest country in the world, but we do have some broken leaders in washington. it's why we're running this race. >> it's okay to use the military against them? >> well -- >> that's the follow up. it's absolutely not, i can say. >> willie, so much to sort through here. start with a question where the host goes, i really -- i don't -- he goes, it's hard for me to know what he really is talking about. no, it's not. why would he lie to his viewers? it's not hard. read his quotes where he says he's going to use the military and the national guard against

democrats. then you have glenn youngkin last week and the speaker going, well, he's talking about illegal immigrants. then he says to howie kirtz, no, i'm not. i'm talking about the democrats. but you're calling them the enemy within, howie say. he goes, yeah, because they are the enemy within. then he is asked, but you're not going to use the federal government to go after them. he goes, that's what they did to me, so yes. he keeps saying democrats are the enemy within. nancy pelosi is the enemy within. who is the california guy? >> adam schiff. >> adam schiff, excuse me. adam schiff is the enemy from within. and he says people on the left are the enemy from within. so he knows exactly, the host,

what donald trump is talking about, so i'm not sure why he is lying to his viewers. >> to the public. >> i don't know why he'd lie about that. he knows. donald trump goes, this is exactly what i am saying. then you have vance saying, well, donald trump is unfiltered. he speaks from the heart. thank you. thank you. >> okay. >> that is an admission against interest, as lawyers would say in a courtroom. that is an admission interest. you say, people love donald trump because he is unfiltered and speaks from the heart. when he tells you he is going to use the military against his political opponents, jd vance just told america, this guy means it. >> yeah, and isn't that what we hear from so many people for so many years now? oh, he's unfiltered. you can't believe everything he says. he's just riffing up there. it's jazz. but if he says something over

and over and over again and has a track record of proving, see january 6th, that he is not afraid to use the power for ill, then you have to listen and believe him. poor jd vance, who obviously, again, is the beta in this relationship and has to say what he has to say to get through the interview and to protect his guy. he's making excuses. he's deflecting. he's talking suddenly about nancy pelosi trading stocks and benefitting. the question was, what does donald trump mean when he says there are enemies of the within inside the democratic party, on the left, and that he will use the national guard or the military, as he's now said repeatedly, to go after them? believe him when he says it. >> well put. >> believe him when he says it. let's bring in msnbc contributor, our good friend mike barnicle. we can talk about the yankees and dodgers in a minute, smooth things out a little bit. but let's talk about what we've been seeing today. you can talk about jd vance if you want to, but what'd you make of the barnstorming tour across

pennsylvania, wisconsin, and michigan of vice president harris alongside former congresswoman liz cheney? >> you know, that was striking. actually, i was watching the segment earlier with liz cheney and kamala harris on the stage. liz cheney said something that i think more people, more voters should reflect upon. she and her husband were thinking of their five children when it came to donald trump. they were thinking of the peaceful transition to power. when you think and slide back into now what you were just talking about, you know, the vice presidential candidate protecting the presidential candidate on the republican side of the ticket, protecting them from what? protecting him from being himself. this is a guy who has gone around the country again, multiple times, again speaking to multiple groups, doing phony mcdonald's sales and stuff like that, which was a genius move in

terms of political theater. but he couldn't get a job at mcdonald's if he were an average citizen because he has a felony record. he couldn't get a job as a schoolteacher as a felon. he couldn't get a job as any -- any major corporation in america, he'd be disqualified from being the ceo of because he is a convicted felon. also, a federal judge in new york called him an adjudicated rapist. where i am mentally is, i'm wondering about the country and wondering about why more voters don't reflect liz cheney when they go to the polls and think about their children and grandchildren and what kind of a country we're going to hand off to future voters. this is what we're confronted with. a man who is a convicted felon, a recidivist in terms of being a liar, lies all day long, and he might win. it is incredible to me.

incredible. >> you know, katty kay, willie was talking about the situation that jd vance is in. if you actually, though, listen to things jd vance has said before being on the ticket, they're even more radical. talking about how conservatives, how republicans need to be far more ruthless in the application of power. but look at jd vance over the past several weeks. first, the press is asking him a very simple question. did joe biden win in 2020? he starts by going, hominy hominy hominy, tap dancing around. then they ask him again at the next stop. he goes, blah, blah, blah, facebook. blah, blah, blah, hunter finally, he breaks down weeks later. did joe biden win the election? no. right? here we have, again, this march to election denialism right out in the open. now, we have it again.

why is donald trump saying he is going to use the military against his political opponents? his answer is nancy pelosi's taxes, right? we know we're going to get to where, at the end, he's going to say, because they deserve it. he said liz cheney deserves a military tribunal. think about how crazy it is and what a huge mistake he made yesterday when he's asked, why does donald trump keep saying that he is going to use the military against the, quote, enemy within, against his political opponents. jd vance says, because he is unfiltered, he speaks from the heart. the authoritarian means what the authoritarian says. >> yeah, in the debate with tim walz, jd vance used this almost magic trick form of words.

he has a facility with kind of saying something that sounds like it makes sense but doesn't actually correlate with what he has said in the past or necessarily believes. i think he's now got to the very end of the campaign, and the road has run out. he is having to put himself firmly in positions, either because donald trump said, listen, you have to come out on the election or come out and pack me up on enemies within and how they are going to be treated, or whether that is what jd vance believes, it's hard to know with the senator because his positions have changed over the years. but he has found himself in this position at the end of the campaign, and i think that is where the trump campaign is closing. they are closing hard on this message of, a week ago, it was closing hard on migrants, and now he is closing hard on enemies within and how they are going to be treated. we'll see what the next two week s give out. either they feel this is how they reach the base that seems to be largely male that they are bringing into their tent at the

moment, or they want to send some kind of signal, i don't know quite who they think they're winning over like this. it feels like a very base play that doesn't persuade anybody that is there left to persuade. i just -- it's a strange play. the immigration play was dark and lots of it was lies, but you could understand where the campaign was going from a strategy point of view. i guess this is just what donald trump believes, and he wants to say it. >> charlie sykes, that's what people in the trump campaign said, it is all base plays right now. nothing persuadable. they do feel like they've had inroads with men, particularly young men. their tech bro alliances. elon musk among them is being helpful. but a lot of this is also what donald trump wants to talk about. to his aides' frustration who want him to focus on immigration, as dark and fact challenged as it may be, they want him there. they want him on the economy.

but he is consumed with the enemy within. he is still consumed with the 2020 election. i thought it was interesting, in a moment of candor yesterday, he acknowledged he has not yet seen any evidence of voter fraud this time around. charlie, i think we can all rest assured, he is going to change his tune in the days ahead. >> oh, yeah. to that point, you know, in a minute, there is no way that donald trump is ever going to concede that he was defeated in this election. there will be no gracious acknowledgment of the results. no lie will be too outrageous or too extreme for him to push. i think we know that. but, yeah, what you're seeing is this unfiltered donald trump, which is interesting. this is donald trump. this is not the disciplined donald trump. normally, in a political campaign, including his 2016 campaign, you know, candidates try to clean up their act in the final weeks of the campaign. they try to present their best self, their most plausible presidential self.

donald trump is not doing that. whether he is exhausted or he just doesn't care or whether or not he's just in this sort of, you know, trumpian bubble where he feels the need to double down. but it is an extraordinary closing argument. one of the things he did over the last couple days was to argue that he was a better president than george washington. he was a better president than abraham lincoln. this is a guy who is kind of out there. this goes back to what someone like liz cheney are saying. conservatism is not about being a cult of personality. it is not about this blind loyalty. it is actually, you need to be reality based. reality is, this convicted felon would not be considered for any office of trust in this country. are we seriously going to elect him as president? i had a chance to talk on stage

and after the event, and one of the questions from the audience was a former teacher who said he was exhausted by the toxicity of all of this. and the need to create role models. the image that the president gives to young people but also what kind of a role model america will be as a shining city on a hill, if two weeks from today, we elect him as president of the united states. how that'll look to the rest of the world. >> charlie sykes, thank you very much. we appreciate it. >> thank you, charlie. coming up, janis mackey frayer joins us with a look at each presidential candidate's stance on issues relating to china, and who the chinese government might prefer to see in the white house. "morning joe" will be right back. ♪♪

i'm a lifelong republican and i voted for trump twice, but i can't do it again. trump wants a national sales tax on imported goods. it'll make everything more expensive for regular people, all while giving tax breaks to billionaires. you're rich as hell. we're going to give you tax cuts. kamala harris is for regular people. she wants a tax cut for 100 million americans, so we keep more of our hard-earned money. i'm a proud republican, but this year, i'm voting for kamala harris. ff pac is responsible for the content of this ad. (man) these men of means with their silver spoons. what will become of them when they discover robinhood gold allows others to earn their very liberal rates on idle cash.

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hey, i know i'm old as [ bleep ]. i'm tired, america. i'm slowing down. reality is, i can't step down and let, who, kamala run. have you seen her in veep? get [ bleep ] out of here. i didn't send a violent clown

brigade to get nancy pelosi. if you can't this is an a.i. generated voice, lots of luck in your senior year. >> that was "the daily show" providing a bit of a service, having some fun with a.i. voice generation. it's pretty clear in that instance. the video is not a real ad from president joe biden. but deep fake technology is making it tougher to discern saf satire from disinformation. justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian. how big of a risk do deep fakes pose in the upcoming election, especially in the final days? can anything be done to combat the problem? >> hey, good morning. mika, guys, that's right. officials are increasingly concerned about the use of deep fakes as the election approaches, particularly to fool people about the time and place of voting. where and when they can vote. there is a new public service ad

out today that tries to raise awareness about that problem. take a look. >> reporter: it's a nightmare scenario for election security officials, and it's already happened once. >> it's important that you save your vote for the november election. >> reporter: that was an artificial intelligence generated deep fake of president biden's voice. sent to 50,000 democratic voters before new hampshire's primary in january. the political consultant behind it charged with felony. experts fear more of that is coming. they say the best anecdote is public awareness. >> bad actors are going to use a.i. to trick you -- >> -- into not voting. >> reporter: a new public service ad out today is featuring celebrities designed to highlight the threat of deep fake attempts at voter suppression. >> fake phone calls. >> videos or messages to try to change when, how, or where you vote. >> reporter: the bogus warning can appear to be coming from a

trusted source. >> a fake message saying voting has been extended. >> or your polling location changed. >> reporter: it includes rosario dawson, amy douglas, jonathan scott, and more. former homeland security is part of the ad airing on youtube. >> we can make people aware this is the new spam that tries to deceive them and to make sure they don't call for that deception. >> reporter: joshua graham lynn is the group's ceo. >> it's almost impossible to tell what is the deep fake and who is not flipping through your phone. changing a few votes in a district could tip the whole election. >> reporter: the ad seeking to show voters how easy it is to produce convincing, fake videos. >> vote is your right. >> don't let anyone take it from you. >> i love you, amy. so sorry, i'm not even american.

>> reporter: experts are urging americans to get information from voting only from official sources. if something seems off, it probably is. >> so sorry. >> you know, this is a nightmare scenario for election officials, that something like this happens on election day. it's not really clear who within the government is going to call it out, but this ad is an attempt to inoculate the public, raise awareness, get them to see the ways in which people will try to influence them falsely. willie. >> experts say the best defense is common sense. if something sounds strange, off, check it out, look into it before you take it to the bank or share it with other people. nbc's ken dilanian, fascinating look at the deep fakes. ken, thanks so much. america's relationship with china will be a challenge for whoever is the next american president. joining us now live from beijing, nbc news correspondent janis mackey frayer. janis discussed next month's u.s. presidential election with a university professor in china who advises the government

there. what'd you learn? >> reporter: well, we know this is the one foreign policy issue that democrats and republicans can agree on, is that china poses this threat to the united states. everything from technology and trade to geopolitical clout. while the threat is a perennial campaign point, we looked at recent speeches and rallies that showed the harris and trump campaigns are both now ramping up their discussion on china. kamala harris has criticized trump for selling out to china and giving up american jobs, especially in the auto sector, while donald trump said if he returns to the white house, china wouldn't dare provoke him because xi jinping knows he is, quote, crazy. for china, there is little difference between the two when it comes to policies that shape and affect u.s.-china relations being as frayed as they are. beijing is never going to admit to having a favorite candidate

because they don't want to be accused of partisanship, but they usually refer the incumbent. i spoke to an adviser to china's government. here is what he is saying about china preferring harris. >> we can work with each other. with trump, there isn't a lo. also, his previous behavior, performance, gave us a lot of, you know, warnings about what's going to happen in the next way. but we already had four years of experience with donald trump, and donald trump is very -- he is not a normal politician. he is not even a normal businessman. he's highly unpredictable, and

he can be very emotional. also, he tends -- he may take measures that would create huge problems between china and the u.s. >> reporter: chinese social media gives a different view. trump supporters are dominant there. mainly because there are less concerns about his policies than his style and the fact that tariffs and his past tendency to alienate regional allies may work to lower america's standing and generally work in china's favor. there's actually a joke that his name translates loosely as trump builds the nation. the nation being china. that a second trump presidency would make china great again. that's not necessarily the thinking of the political establishment here who prefer the continuity that could come with a harris administration, even if the continuity is not the direction china always wants it to go.

it is not so much wanting the lesser of two evils, per se, but preferring the more predictable option for beijing in order to craft its playbook. mika? >> nbc's january it mackie frayer, thank you very much. we appreciate it. gene, it is obviously hard to tell, as you sort through everything, where autocrats in china, autocrats in russia want to go. i actually think we do know that vladimir putin obviously wants donald trump, though he has said in the past, kamala harris. one thing is for sure. you know this because you were london bureau chief for some time. our closest allies, whether in britain, france, germany, poland, all across europe, very concerned about the possibility of a second trump term. very concerned that he would weaken nato, that he would strengthen russia, that he would

destroy trade. i mean, the consequences for europe, obviously deprave if donald trump is elected again. that'd, of course, go back on united states consumers, wouldn't it? >> absolutely. i would say the concern overseas goes beyond very concerned to freaked out. it is simply a horrible alternative, a horrible development for our allies if trump is elected president again, because he is an unreliable ally. he's proven that in his four years. and this is such a moment in the world. trump keeps smattering on about how world war iii is coming. while that is absurd, we do have these raging conflicts going on in the middle east, in ukraine.

potentially in the south china sea. this is a moment when more than ever, the free nations of the world need confident, competent u.s. leadership. the u.s. is the only country that can lead in that way. and with donald trump, the one guarantee is that we would not get such leadership. the world would not get such leadership. that is just incredibly dangerous. it would be dangerous at any time. it is particularly dangerous right now. >> yeah, joe, obviously what happens at 1600 pennsylvania avenue matters more than with any other capital in the world. it is why the world is fascinated by this election. there are literally hundreds of journalists coming over from the uk to cover this campaign. when i was back there touring around the uk, the level of interest in the election was very high.

it was particularly around things like ukraine, whether donald trump will pull out of nato, which we don't know, whether he'd undermine article 5 of nato. whether there would be tariffs again on america's allies that would hurt trade relations between the two countries. people are fairly specific. you have to divide it up a little bit. there are countries in asia, and i'm sure janis knows this well from her conversations, where they're making more accommodations. some countries in asia, india, for example, may welcome a trump presidency. there is that transactional bond between narendra modi and donald trump. certainly when it comes to america's oldest allies, and particularly with the war in ukraine, there is an enormous amount of concern. i had a conversation recently with a european diplomat. name me one good thing that would happen if donald trump is re-elected. there was a pause and an embarrassed laugh, and he couldn't really think of anything. >> hmm. >> katty, thank you. still ahead on "morning joe," we'll continue to debunk a major focus for the trump

campaign. that is gender-affirming care for prisoners. it has spent millions of dollars on political ads that are based on a lie. that's straight ahead on "morning joe." ♪♪

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speaking of trump, for months, he accused harris about lying about working at mcdonald's in college. trump worked a 20-minute shift. had a great time at mcdonald's. 20 minutes, trump actually ran a successful business. >> yeah, actually, i don't think he would have actually gotten the job there given his status. welcome back to "morning joe." it is tuesday, october 22nd. good to have you all with us this second hour. jonathan lemire, mike barnicle, and katty kay are with joe, willie, and me. >> mike, i've just got to tell everybody, and we're having the barnicle boys on tomorrow morning. >> oh, my gosh. >> but we got -- >> wow. >> -- to see their film, "the comeback." >> incredible. >> even though it happened in 2004, i found myself cheering an

individual play, you know, wiping tears from my eyes. time and time again, especially when we were talking about -- when we saw them talking about wakefield. >> netflix. >> so beautiful. >> joe, i share your emotions in that. the first time i saw the complete documentary, it's a three-night thing, chapters one, two, and three. first time i saw it, i too, cried, but i cried because it was proof that my boys were finally making a living on their own. [ laughter ] >> well done. >> i hear ya. >> you kno -- >> it's really good. >> "the comeback" premieres on netflix tomorrow. it's about boston's extraordinary, improbable, impossible comeback in 2004 in the alcs. of course, willie, we do this because you guys are in the world series now.

we have warm memories of 2004. 7, 13, and 18, and hopefully 25. mike, kevin millar, extraordinary. at the end, they ask him about tim wakefield. you can see the tears starting to well up in this very tough guy. trot nixon, seeing these guys a little older, reflecting back. kirk shilling, a guy who had been really kind of disconnected from red sox nation for a very long time. after tim wakefield's death, things turned sideways. it was really good to have his voice talk about one of the most remarkable pitching performances in recent history. just the entire team, theo, everybody, john, sam and larry,

everybody. it was -- it was just extraordinary. >> yeah, there is some incredible interviews woven within the three chapters, including some revelations that people have not heard before. john henry basically saying he tried to fire grady little the night of game seven in yankee stadium in 2003. things like that. and the relationships that were built among the players on that team over the course of a couple of years. kevin millar, a mediocre outfielder, first baseman. not the greatest ballplayer in the major leagues. but he had something about him that was such a team concept guy, that he was the driver, largely the driver of that team's drive into the impossible task of coming back from 0-3. you see it. you feel it. you live it. >> yeah, you know, millar

reminds me of bear bryant's favorite quarterback who wasn't a great player, wasn't a great athlete, said he couldn't run, couldn't pass, but if you needed seven yards for a first down, he'd get you eight. if you needed 12, he'd get you 13. he just got the job done. that's kevin millar. what he did to loosen up -- i'm telling you, whether you love baseball or not, you're going to love this documentary. you know, it was -- things were so bad that at one point, jonathan lemire, you actually had tom warner sitting there sort of writing the concession speech in '04, thinking, we're going to repeat the horrors of '03. and he's sitting there writing, and somebody in the ninth inning taps his hand and goes, hey, better look at the game. this one may not be over yet. >> yeah, it was 2003, the heartbreaking defeat. aaron boone with the home runoff

of tim wakefield. 2004, it's not just that they were losing, they were humiliated. they lost game three at home 19-8. i'll admit, i like most red sox fans thought it was over. then in game four, the comeback, the millar walk, the david roberts steal, and then, of course, miller to tie it. david ortiz in extra innings. it began the legend of big papi to win it. 20 years later, this documentary is spectacular. can't wait to relive it. 20 years later, i actually still can't believe it. growing up, wishing for just one title. now to be so blessed with four and how they win the first one, it transcended sports. i know my grandfather lived his whole life rooting for the red sox and passed away a couple years after '04, but he made it. that means so much to so many people. >> amazing. we're going to have -- go ahead, mike. >> just one added element for willie's benefit and many yankees' fans benefit.

there's an element in the film where joe torre, after game seven in 2004, when the red sox come from down 3-0, joe torre after the game, the yankees defeated, called tim wakefield in the other clubhouse because he so respected him and what happened in 2003. 2004, a year later, joe torre calls tim wakefield. >> class. >> absolutely class. absolutely. >> joe, i was at that game seven in 2004 at yankee stadium, and it wasn't even close. johnny damon hits the two home runs for the red sox before he came over to our side. we were just shocked. it had never happened before, hasn't happened since in baseball, coming back from 3-0. perhaps two weeks from now, another curse will be broken. 15 years since the yankees -- >> go dodgers. >> -- last won a world series. a decade and a half, joe. children in the metro area have never seen a world series title.

>> oh, boy. >> perhaps that documentary will be start to be written friday at 8:00. >> go dodgers. >> let me just say, we feel your pain. >> thank you. >> i think i speak for all of america when i say today, we are all dodgers fans. mika. >> okay. we're going to get a sneak peek on "the comeback" tomorrow. let's get to the top story this hour. kamala harris visited three battleground states yesterday along with former president congresswoman liz cheney. they were making an appeal to republican voters who may not like donald trump but are still on the fence about supporting a democrat. together, they tried to hammer home the danger the former president poses, and that he is not fit for the office of the presidency. >> in this race, we have the opportunity to vote for and support somebody you can count on. we're not always going to agree,

but i know vice president harris will always do what she believes is right for this country. >> we have in our grasp the ability to to determine the course of country. you know, every election we say, this is the one. this is the one. this truly is the one. >> it's not about party. it's about right and wrong. and i certainly have many republicans who will say to me, i can't be public. they do worry about a whole range of things, including violence. >> right. >> but they'll do the right thing. i would just remind people, if you're at all concerned, you can vote your conscience and not ever have to say a word to anybody. there will be millions of republicans who do that on november 5th. [ applause ] >> like, if you wouldn't hire somebody to babysit your kids, like, you shouldn't make that guy the president of the united

states. he shouldn't be. >> when we talk about character, it is the sign of strong character to have empathy. to have some level of concern and care about the well-being of other people. then to do something about that. and i think there's so much about this election that calls into question whether we are on a track with a donald trump as president to actually teach and to show our children our definition of a leader. is that it? one of the issues that i think has resulted in the kind of toxicity that you have been describing is that he tends to encourage us as americans to point our fingers at each other. that's not in our best interest. >> all right. let's bring in former msnbc host and contributor to "washington monthly," chris matthews.

and co-host of "the weekend" on msnbc, symone sanders townsend. good to have you both. chris, i'd like to start with you and talk about what we just saw. two women from completely different backgrounds, completely different points of view, carrying the torch of free tom and democracy together. >> well, mika, i would think a few years ago, i'd ever be singing the praises of a cheney member of the family, a member of that family. i really did not like the iraq war, and i didn't like the neo cons. cheney was leading the war, and it killed almost 200,000 people in iraq and served no purpose. they had a bunker, a barrier against iran, and they got rid of it. anyway, she is a character almost out of the movies, a man for all seasons. i've never seen a more heroic figure than liz cheney. she lost her state probably forever. she lost her party. she lost her leadership in the

republican house. she could have been on her way to speaker. it was very probable. she gave it all away in the interest of truth. that's what she stood for. it is amazing to me how few people have gotten behind her. now, one person who has gotten behind her is kamala harris. those two women sitting together on that stage is remarkable. because there's much courage there from liz cheney. i cannot say anything that would stop me from saying she's been unbelievable. i think now they use her for the next two weeks. i also want to say something about the democrats. if you're going to use her, repay her when you get into office. don't just act like you're giving a little nod to a republican. clean up some of your act. you have problems, democrats. you don't have all the answers. you have to have much tougher action on the border. get serious. get a reasonable way of getting people into the country. let them become citizens in

time, but you have to do something. you can't just say, i'm with biden. that's not too good. you can't say, on the inflation, it's world inflation. nobody cares about the world. they want to know why their prices are going up. i think the democrats have a lot of things to clean up. but one of the things they need to show is courage and guts. that woman has it. >> yeah. i'm going to also point to the other woman on stage, kamala harris, joe, who is really meeting a very complicated moment in our history. she's reaching out not just to liz cheney publicly and working with her to get the support of republicans, she has reaching out and getting the support of hundreds of republicans. and it is a complicated moment to meet. >> it really is. there's no playbook for this. >> none. >> the fact that you have over 100 officials from republican administrations in the past, that you have almost every senior leader from donald

trump's last run in the white house, that you have so many republicans, cheney all the way back to ken adelman, all supporting a democrat. it's unprecedented. liz cheney is writing the new playbook. if it works, if it works, it is historic. we've had, symone, americans saying for quite some time that they were tired of the divisions in america. you look at the polls. you see, time and again, americans saying they want democrats and republicans to work together. they want politicians to stop acting like children. they want compromise. these are in the polls. you won't hear it in either primary, but that's what americans are saying. here, symone, it seem it is to me, dramatic visual evidence of

this happening for the voters. and there's an old song that paul mccartney wrote called, "if you want it, here it is." come and get it. >> yeah. >> sung by bad finger. well, if you want it, if you want parties working together, if you want people who have completely different world views coming together in the best interest of our country, it's right there for them, isn't it, symone? >> it's right there. look, i think what is remarkable about this moment is that vice president harris and her campaign, they have not made any policy promises to earn the support of republicans. liz cheney is very consistent when she says, we have real policy differences. but i believe that kamala harris will be a good president. so we have real policy differences, but i have no doubt that when she's sitting in the oval office, she'll be fighting for americans. i think that's what makes this moment different. every single election, you know,

when i've been out there on the campaign trail talking to folks, especially some of the younger voters, they say, every election, people say this is the most important election. why is this different? to be clear, they're right. we have been saying that for a very long time. one could argue that there were times where it was said where it was not necessary, okay? i think right about now, people would love to have mitt romney, okay, in this race opposed to a donald trump. but the reality is, this is different because this is about our -- like this american experiment, democracy. if vice president harris is successful, it'll be because she reached out and built a broad coalition. she at no time compromise any of the policy values and the values she has to do that. democrats should see this and be heartened. there are folks coming to the democratic candidate, joining the big tent, because they believe that this is the person that literally can chart a new

way forward. i really just think that is important to hammer home. because folks out there will have seen all this engagement for trying to garner the support of republicans, and they say, what about the base? i agree, it's a both/and. i think coupled with the engagements that the vice president did last week, now what she is doing this week, this is how you close. this is how you close the race. this is your argument. you literally will be a president for everybody. this moment requires us all to rise to the occasion. >> bring out the base, then grow it, as symone says. that's what liz cheney is trying to give permission to the nikki haley's republicans, to come out and vote for kamala harris. senior political correspondent for "the national review," jim geraghty, writing a piece titled, "the chronically underestimated kamala harris jim writes, quote, it is almost required to insist kamala harris is stupid in republican circles, but there is a nagging complication. if kamala harris is as stupid as critics claim, why does she have

the democratic presidential nomination and a roughly 50/50 shot of being the first female president in u.s. history? do you know how many ruthlessly ambition democratic men and women have desperately yearned to get where she is? how many smart, tough, shrewd, underhanded and cold-blooded paws have tried to claw their way up the greasy pole and fallen short? somehow, this supposed dunce may do it? there is another measuring stick, maybe one more important in politics. she's skilled at getting other people emotionally invested in her success. if kamala harris is a hapless dunce, how does she keep getting so many other people to work around the clock to elect her? katty kay, that appearing in "the national reserve," a conservative publication. jim geraghty, i'm sure, has many disagreements with kamala harris on policy and has written about them, but suggesting here that kamala harris is underappreciated and underestimated.

>> i love that, made me laugh. i hadn't seen it before, willie. so thank you. you cheered up my morning. >> there you go. >> to some extent, this is -- and i was interested to see that he says there have been a lot of ambitious men and women, but it is a factor of being a women in public life that you tend to be underestimated. i do wonder, and this is something i know the campaign is wondering about and worrying about, because it is hard to measure, how many people out there casting their ballot may be using things like, she's not ready or she's not tough enough or she hasn't got the policies as kind of code for, i don't really feel ready to vote for a woman. the campaign will never say this. they don't want to have any suggestion out there that they think there is sexism out there. but i was out in pennsylvania this weekend going around with some people who were door knocking for the harris campaign. we came across a young group of hispanic men who said, look, he's not going to be respected by foreign leaders in the middle east because she's a woman. i can't possibly vote for her because she isn't tough enough,

and donald trump is so strong. i think there is some of that. jim geraghty is getting at that, i think, without saying it explicitly. but there is a feeling amongst some voters still, some ambivalence about whether, you know, they feel they can vote for a woman. women do tend to be underestimated. they perform very well, but they are often underestimated when they're in a position like this. >> mika, we always talk about here how -- we joke about how democrats catastrophize. after a poll, the billing rates of psychiatrists up and down fifth avenue skyrocket. republicans, though, in the age of trump, are the opposite. jim geraghty get to the heart of this. they pop the champagne corks early. they were shocked they lost in

'17, in '18, in '19, '20, in '22. after '22, newt gingrich said, hey, we keep underestimating biden. we keep underestimating the democrats. joe biden, he said, joe biden was compared favorably to eisenhower and ronald reagan, who were always underestimated. it always worked in ike and reagan's favor. newt gingrich is right. biden was always supposed to be stupid, bumbling, dumb, too old. yet, he won '20. as newt gingrich said, he had possibly the greatest first year off election result in history. but this isn't just what's happening in the age of trump. you go back to 2012. we remember it very well. republicans were popping

champagne corks in the first inning in the romney versus obama race. they were so certain that mitt romney was going to win. they repeated it in this eco-chamber so long, that on election night, mitt romney and anne didn't believe it. on fox news, some of the smartest minds in republican politics said, this can't be happening. obama cannot be winning. this is impossible. but because they were in the echo chamber, they didn't see what was coming. i think jim brings up a great point here. kamala harris always underestimated, please find another politician who, in the ap poll, you see her favorability ratings are plus. you know, she somehow, like joe biden, somehow manages to win despite the fact that republicans constantly are underestimating her. >> also, just for balance, given this tenuous time the country is

in, it's important never to underestimate donald trump, especially -- >> of course not. democrats don't, right? they're catastrophizing. >> jim geraghty wrote so many things that were validating, especially for women. kamala harris is a woman who has been waiting a long time. i would say all of her life to prove to the world they're wrong about a woman's ability to step up and get the job done. i'll go backwards, but i'll start, it's hard not to start with the debate. no man has been able to do what she has done, to jim geraghty's point. they dreamed of it. >> not even close. >> they dreamed of it in their wildest dreams. none of them ever came close to what she did. she decimated him in the debate. as a prosecutor, as the attorney general, as a senator, as the vice president, she has broken

barriers. she has done jobs that men dream of. now, as the democratic nominee, i think that's such a great point to make. many women in america are watching her. republicans, democrats, independents, they're watching her because they're in a different reality than men. although, a lot of men who care about them get it. that is, they're facing a health care crisis. they are being denied access to life-saving health care right now, right now in their lives. their daughters are being denied life-saving health care, access to it, because of donald trump. not only are they seeing kamala harris step up in ways men have not been able to do, against a tyrant, against a fascist wanna be, against someone who is threatening this democracy, she's stepping up for us and proving that she cares about what has happened in this country because of what donald trump has already proven he can do. that is deny freedoms.

she's proving he's almost 80 and unfit. she's 60 and fit, ready to do the job. >> i have to say, chris matthews, mika brings up a good point, or echo's jim geraghty's great point, as well. underestimated like joe biden was underestimated. like ronald reagan who would say, one of my greatest assets is everybody thinks i'm an amiable dunce. people thought reagan was stupid. the votes are counted, and he wins 49 states. my favorite reagan story was -- on this point was when he went to harvard to speak at the commencement. he's sitting there with the eal of the president of the united states in front of him. he said something along the lines of, i really wish i would have been able to have an education as wonderful as yours. i went to eureka college, and the audience sort of laughs at eureka college.

then he puts his hands on the podium and goes, just imagine how far i could have gotten if i had had a degree from harvard. there's the seal of the president of the united states on the podium, and the whole place erupts in laughter. but underestimating a political foe, any political foe, as you know, that is mistake number one. my gosh, the democrats have a candidate that republicans have always underestimated, just like biden. when you do that, you usually do it to your detriment, don't you? >> yeah. and i think we have to, as you were talking about the red sox in their glory days, you can rise to the occasion. you can rise to the occasion and make the hit. bring the ball in. bring the runner in. you can rise to the occasion. harry truman was not thought of as the great president that he

would become, and he is one of our great presidents because he rose to the occasion. he came out of kansas city in the old crooked politics there, and he came out and, my god, he got us through with the marshall plan, nato, and everything. he did that, harry truman did. he didn't even put his name on the marshall plan. he made marshall do it, got marshall to do it. i think people rise to the occasion. there's no doubt that kamala harris had reason -- that people had reason to question whether she'd be this great. we didn't know this three, four months ago. she was sort of hidden in the back room of the biden administration. all of a sudden, she comes out on day one, knew what she was talking about, won the debate, has commanded the stage, and could be the first woman of color to be president of the united states. very possibly, in fact you could argue probably, she can do this. but she's risen to the occasion.

she's not sat back there. every time she's interviewed, she's sharp. she's on the ball. she's aware of it. she's done her homework. she says things that are powerful. i personally would like to see her close stronger and be more aggressive and not play defense all the time. really come out there and say what she wants to do. talk about our country. center-left country, yes. some accommodation for the conservatives who have been backing her. you know, it's unbelievable, the number of people backing her. i'm waiting for mitt romney to come out. mitt, can you do it? you can do it. i think liz cheney and her are a wonderful -- they're not a ticket, exactly, but it is a wonderful america that she's risen to. women in bucks county, i can't believe the newspapers today are talking about feasterville where i grew up. northeast philly. right at the edge of the city of philadelphia, going into bucks county, that's where the action is. women in those districts, i've got to say, i don't care what

your husband thinks, i'm voting for choice. i'll vote for kamala harris because that's the message i want to send. i am going to sneak out and do it, but i'll vote for her. my mom voted for kennedy, didn't tell my dad. you know, this is how it works. you have to vote yourself. you have to vote for yourself. as bobby kennedy said, vote for yourself. vote for your interests. that's how democracy works. you know where you stand. you know your interest. vote for them. >> your mom and my mom were alike. my mom didn't tell my dad that she voted for jfk for years. but we went and voted for jfk, like your mom. chris matthews, thanks so much for being with us. >> thank you, chris. >> we greatly appreciate it. you know, mike barnicle, as we wrap up this segment, talking about kamala harris and liz cheney, the country is getting more conservative. we had somebody on yesterday talking about how america, dave weigel, about how america is becoming a more center-right

country. what i really like, what i'm hopeful about, as you see liz cheney on stage with kamala harris, somebody who is considered the conservative's conservative and the liberal's liberal, you have a coming together. and if kamala harris wins this race, she will win this race because she's getting a lot of independent voters and getting disaffected republicans. she's going to places like grand rapids, michigan, birthplace of gerald ford. she's going to the wow counties in wisconsin that are usually republican. what message will that send to kamala harris when she gets elected? these people, these swing voters helped me get elected and push back on the threat of authoritarianism. i'm going to govern from the center. i'm going to govern for my party, yes, but i'm also going to govern for those voters in the center who made my

presidency possible. that is why we're against gerrymandering. that's why we would love to see the house with fair lines that require people to reach over to the other side. we're seeing that actually happening right now in the most important presidential race in our lifetime. that's something to celebrate, isn't it? >> you know, i think there's a lot to celebrate here potentially, joe. i think kamala harris is a force of nature, first of all. both as a candidate and as a person. and she's a very intelligent woman. she decimated donald trump on the stage in the debate. something that, in retrospect, is underrated right now. think about what she did to him, how she exposed him. she is aware, the vice presidential candidate was in boston sunday night. my wife and daughter went to see him, reported he was terrific and everything, but he eluded to one thing that really resonated,

that i think kamala harris really understands and is articulating. that's part of the damage that donald trump has done to this country, that we approach election day in the united states in america, it is astounding to encounter the number of voters who have not yet voted, who are afraid or reluctant to talk about who they're going to vote for. because of all the anger that filled the political air. why has it filled the political air? because of one person and one person only, donald j. trump. kamala harris, as elected president of the united states, i think she'd immediately have a calming effect on this country that so desperately needs it. >> you know who agrees with that, actually? the daughter of gerald ford, susan ford has endorsed kamala harris for president. there you go. >> okay. still ahead on "morning joe," billionaire elon musk accused of spreading dangerous disinformation about election integrity in battleground

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a follow-up to something we reported on yesterday. the trump campaign spending millions on political ads in battleground states, in which it accuses kamala harris of supporting taxplayer funded transgender surgeries for prisoners and migrants. such ads have run more than 30,000 times. >> 30,000 times. >> primarily during nfl and college football games and events with high male viewership. but here's the catch, that policy -- >> the policy that they were attacking harris for just talking about. >> right. she was talking about what the law is. that policy was carried out by the trump administration, as explained by a new report in "the new york times."

now, the lincoln project is out with a new ad calling out trump for his hypocrisy on his attacks on harris over gender-affirming care for prisoners. take a look. >> have you seen this ad? donald trump is spending millions attacking kamala harris on a desperate lie. taxpayer funded sex changes for prisoners and illegal aliens is a trump administration policy. he is attacking kamala harris for his own record. and he thinks you're too dumb to get it. he's gaslighting america. because trump is for he/him. kamala harris is for us. >> wow. >> let's bring in longtime political strategist and consultant, rick wilson. he is the co-founder and board member of the lincoln project. >> rick, you know, if there are people out there that say, oh, wait a second now, wait, maybe we're being spun here, trump supporters, maybe we're being spun here, the fact is, just

like kamala harris is saying listen to what donald trump says, here, let's just look at donald trump's policy from donald trump's administration. i mean, i'm looking through this. i have to say, i was shocked. i was shocked. i watched the nfl every week. my son and i watch it on youtube. we have the split four screen. this ad is nonstop. kamala said something in 2019 at some event. >> about what was available to trans prisoners. >> while she was saying it, donald trump's justice department was sending to congress gender-affirming care. the very things for inmates, convicts, the very things, rick, that they were attacking kamala harris for talking about. they were doing it. talk about that. >> joe, thanks for having me on,

and mika. this is a classic example that trump really has contempt for his own base. he has contempt for the people that he needs to get re-elected him. and this ad is meant to show, in a way that only the lincoln project probably would do, that this fie is just gaslighting. he is lying to his own people. he has contempt for them. this was his policy. his bureau of prisons policy. you know, you and i know that donald trump would drop an executive order at the drop of a hat on any issue, never do a thing about this. never talked about it. never made it a big deal. this was donald trump's policy. he's trying to lie to people and say it is kamala harris' policy. it's one more absurdity in a chain of absurdities, trying to stoke up fear on the republican base with a lie. you know, that's really basically what happens within this campaign. >> symone, the thing is, rick brings up a good point. somebody asked me, yeah, but this was donald trump's policy, but could he have changed it?

the crazy thing about this is -- >> this is important. >> -- he could have changed it with his signature. he could have picked up his pen any time during his four years in office, and he could have gotten rid of the policy. but not only did he not get rid of the policy, he knew about the policy and he actually amended it a little bit. the amendment suggests that the trump administration, the trump justice department, the trump bureau of prisons, was very aware of this rule, very aware of their gender-affirming care at taxpayers' cost policy. and they kept it. now, they're attacking her for something she said at a forum, while his policy was in place? >> you know, for me, this is really just about, like, why

does donald -- i have to ask myself this often, why does donald trump and republicans, like ted cruz, because ted cruz is running ads against colin allred in texas about this very issue -- why do they want people to be discriminated against? ads about gender-affirming care, for against gender-affirming care, at the end of the day, as colin allred said, you know, i believe people shouldn't be discriminated against. that's where i stand. and i don't know what donald trump believes, you know, but i do think, and, rick, you tell me, but this has been my theory for a long time, that the culture wars, right, these trans kids, attacking trans kids, bathrooms, you know, these abortion bills, all the things, the culture wars are the playbook of the modern day republican party apparatus. they are a distraction, but they're very much still the playbook. the goal, frankly, is to whip up

some stuff amongst the very, you know, red meat heart of the base, but also get democrats to play now on this battlefield with them. so we're not talking about the economy. we're not talking about donald trump's declining cognitive ability. we're not talking about what is happening to women all over this country. that's my theory. what say you? >> there's a reason they're narrow casting these things, symone, into a tight audience. they're spending $30 million or so to talk to the bro vote and to talk to the evangelical vote. they are particularly susceptible to the culture war messaging. this has nothing to do with economic growth or prosperity. nothing to do with improving people's lives. this has to do with opening up their closet of imaginary demons and scaring the hell out of a part of their base. the scale of this problem is

de minimis, but they want people to think there are millions of people getting sex changes in schools. donald trump lies about this every day. there is a desperation to get their base revved up and contempt for the rest of america. and for their base. because he knows this is a policy he established. this is a policy that he was pursuing. he could have done something about it. he may not know it, particularly, so out of it these days, but we are seeing, i think, a death twitch of the way the republicans used to run. it used to be about taxes, big . now, it's a catalog of imaginary demons. >> you know, the thing is, first of all, symone said, i don't know what donald trump believes on this issue. i do. [ laughter ] >> his policy. >> i do. >> you're right, joe. you're right. >> trump's trans prisoner plan. >> these are justice department documents from donald trump.

these are prison -- bureau of prisons documents from donald trump and his administration. they knew about it. they actually amended it. they could have gotten rid of it. donald trump could have gotten rid of the policy with a stroke of the pen, and he didn't do it. the thing is, they've been showing this ad, this cynical, cynical ad, trying to attach donald trump's trans policy onto kamala harris, because they cynically think, and we suspect it may be working, that when they run it on nfl games, their goal is to target black men, hispanic men, working class men, and get them to say, well, you know, maybe some of their economic policies may help me out, but this is just too crazy. they're too radical.

again, she's not too radical. it was his policy. just to sum it up again, let's show you the ad one more time. >> have you seen this ad? donald trump is spending millions attacking kamala harris on a desperate lie. taxpayer funded sex changes for prisoners and illegal aliens is a trump administration policy. he is attacking kamala harris for his own record. and he thinks you're too dumb to get it. he's gaslighting america. because trump is for he/him. kamala is for us. >> wow. rick wilson, thank you very much for shedding light on this issue. we appreciate it. symone sanders townsend, thank you, as well. willie? some of the early voting across the country right now, specifically in the state of michigan. elon musk recently amplified a misleading claim that michigan

has more registered voters than eligible citizens. in response, the state's democratic secretary of state, jocelyn benson, corrected musk's disinformation, telling the billionaire not to, quote, feed the trolls. secretary benson joins us now live in studio. secretary benson, thank you for being with us. again, elon musk tweeting that there are more registered voters than eligible citizens. he's pushing these pernicious lies out on his platform, the one he owns. making sure they're amplified. he knows better, of course. what is your response to what he continues to push? >> you know, he clearly googled my name so find out my full and middle name and didn't take time to actually google the facts about our elections in michigan. to me, it's just a misuse of an extraordinary platform, an extraordinary influence. at a time when he could be using his platform to educate every voter, no matter who they'll vote for, about what they need to know and why they should have confidence, or why they should have rightly placed faith in our elections, he is using it to carry the water of, i would

argue, putin and foreign adversaries and others who want to damage people's faith in our elections. sow seeds of doubtcalmly respon data, information, a website he could click and see the truth about this. we've seen huge enthusiasm in early voting. extraordinary numbers out of the state of georgia yesterday and last week. what is it looking like in michigan? >> breaking records. people have been voting from home, mailing in ballots. over a million citizens have already done that in michigan. we launched early voting in person in detroit on saturday. we saw 2,000 citizens show up to vote in detroit, which is ten times the number we saw the last time early voting started in detroit in august. across the board, across the state, enormous enthusiasm. of the million ballots already

cast, the majority are women. we've seen it now for several cycles. >> madam secretary, let's talk about the idea of intimidation. first, elon musk highlighting you by name. tell us about it. do you have safety concerns? we know the trump campaign is enlisting poll watchers throughout the battleground states, they say to see an eye on things, make sure it is fair. other groups say it is an effort to dissuade people from voting. >> transparency is our friend. we welcome people to observe the process. we draw a line where disruption occurs. we have indication, chatter, that disruption could occur on election day. we've been doing scenario planning, and we have a field team across the state ready to respond and de-escalate any incidents that might occur and protect the people who are participating in democracy and making democracy work for everyone. we'll continue to do that. with an eye towards just making sure people vote and it can have faith in the system, that we address and seek consequences for anyone who will disrupt our process. >> both campaigns concede that

michigan will be razor thin, among other states. no one knows how it'll go. if kamala harris wins by a small margin, let's say, we don't have to wonder how donald trump and his allies, probably elon musk will say that it was rigged, that it was fixed. they'll point to some conspiracy theories. how are you prepared to defend your process and show voters that it was a free and fair election? >> exactly as we did it in 2020. we had partnerships, people all across michigan on both sides of the aisle defending the facts, the truth about our elections. we have secured layers in place with paper ballots. we do audits after the fact that ensure outcomes are accurate. all that to say, the citizens of michigan and citizens around this country need to be critical consumers of information in this moment. the efforts to fool citizens about elections only work if we are uninformed and can be fooled. we have michigan.gov/election facts. throughout the post election period, as well, we'll be responding to conspiracy

theories with truth so we can be ambassadors for democracy. >> elon musk is offering a $1 million prize to people who sign a petition of his. does it violate law? >> it is illegal to pay someone to register, and it is illegal to pay someone to vote. if that's what's happening here, i think legal authorities will look into that at the state and federal level. i just think it is a little bit unnerving that someone would try to, you know, manipulate the election process in this way. again, when we look at why is this wealthy individual attacking lowly state election official in the state of michigan, you can't help but wonder if it is to distract from this issue and the potential legal problems that might arrive. >> secretary benson, many people are worried about whitmer, obviously, are no strangers who what has come with these conspiracy theories around michigan and other states. what can you say and we've heard secretary raffensperger say last week this is a free and fair election.

what can you say to reassure people who are worried what may come after election day? >> we spent the last four years since january 6th, 2021, where we saw how far and low people would go to undermine the accurate elections and will of the people preparing for this moment, holding partnership, scenario planning exercises with law enforcement, strengthening our laws to make it a crime to, for example, threaten election officials. we have strengthened our system. we have also expanded our options to vote. early voting is now in michigan. that's what we are seeing voters take advantage of more than anything. we have increased voter education efforts, expanded access to at vote and increased transparency as well. contract their ballot through the process and we hope have faith when they vote, their vote will count and all votes count in the state. >> secretaries of state have rarely been so important. the country should be grateful

for people like you standing up for the process. thank you for being here. >> an honor. >> michigan secretary of state, thank you. coming up, amy klobuchar of minnesota with a new report on what to except on election day and how long it might take to get the final results. "morning joe's" coming right back.

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up in a country where we doesn't have to worry about the peaceful transfer of power? are they going to grow up in a country where that is guaranteed? and i believe that every one of us in this election has a duty and obligation to do what we know is right for the country, and that's to for vice president harris. so i am very honored to be here and to do that. >> incredible day.

still ahead, liz cheney makes a strong argument for supporting vice president kamala harris not as a politician, but as a parent and an american. we will have more from that appearance next on "morning joe." have you compared your medicare plan recently? with ehealth, you can compare medicare plans side by side for free. so we invited people to give ehealth a try and discover how easy it can be to find your medicare match. this is pretty amazing. i can go on a vacation with this money. i have quite a few prescriptions. that's why people call us. we're going to compare plans, and i'm gonna try to get you as much bang for your buck as possible. that's great. this one here covers all your prescriptions, your doctors as well. oh, wonderful. i have a hard time with this. that's okay, that's what i'm here for. based on our conversation today, i would highly recommend this plan. you're so helpful. you know, you don't know. i'm excited for you, sir. again, my name is sham. and if you have any other questions, give me a ring.

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and an obligation to do what we know is right for the country, and that's to support vice president harris. i am very honored to be here and do that. >> former republican congresswoman liz cheney yesterday in pennsylvania explaining part of her reasoning for supporting vice president kamala harris. the pair made stops in three crucial swing states bringing a bipartisan message to voters. >> yeah, that's something, isn't it? >> yeah. i mean, at this point it is about the next generation and what's the world they are going to grow up in. this election could make that decision for them. they are a part of it. >> really could. willie, that scene that we just saw, it's remarkable. it's history coming to life. for me as a conservative, it's the conservative texts that has been on my desktop as a young lawyer, it was on my desktop as a member of congress, my desk

stop still, mika will tell you, the conservative mind, russell kirk sums it up neatly, we are not to be a party of ideology, we are to be a party that upholds the constitution and conventions and we are the protecters of institutions, and the line that -- it's really kind of for me, somebody who read this his entire life, really never seen it have to come into play, russell kirk concludes the conservative minds intro, the last introduction that he wrote in 1986, 7th edition, he said, sometimes we conservatives have to decide whether we are going to attach ourselves to the party of permanence or the party of progress. and our decision is based upon the facts that are before us.

and that is what real conservatives do. they look at the world as it is, not through some hyper idealogical lens, and decide what protects the country. what protects the constitution. what protects customs and conventions the best. >> freedom. >> and it's not a perfect choice all the time, but that's a decision real conservatives make. and that's what liz cheney's doing, real conservatives, real conservatives love their country and want it to continue and want the constitution to endure. >> first of all, it is a striking visual, isn't it, to see vice president kamala harris and congresswoman liz cheney on a stage together knowing that harris has changed support, has dick cheney's support given the history of the cheney family and republican party, the way democrats about them historically. liz cheney is making the case to those nikki haley republicans,

mitt romney republicans, john mccain ops, george w. bush, george h.w. bush, reagan republicans, reminding them this is who we are and have been. we defend the constitution. we push back against aggressors like russia and we want legal immigration in this country. it's an important part of who we are, as ronald reagan said in his farewell speech as he left the white house. she is saying, i haven't changed. all the people around me in the republican or the maga movement, they are the ones who have changed, they are the ones following an autocrat down this path, and she said you don't have to do this. here is the way. she said, even, you know, you can go to the quiet of that ballot booth and vote your conscience and nobody ever has to know what you did. if it's uncomfortable at your kitchen table and your community to vote for kamala harris or to not vote for donald trump, no one has to know. go in the boeks and vote your conscience. that was her message in this

barnstorming tour yesterday with kamala harris. >> you know, willie, you were -- you were working yesterday elsewhere. so we didn't get a chance to talk about the things that happened, but to attach a line from what liz cheney said to what we're saying about conservatives wanting to uphold the constitution and madisonian democracy, over the weekend, i'm curious what your reaction was to donald trump repeatedly saying that he was going to go after his political opponents, that they were the enemy within, that nancy pelosi was the enemy within, that schiff was the enemy within, that cbs news should be shut down, all of these -- all of these anti-democracy, pro-autocratic lines that donald trump is putting in all of his interviews and seemingly all of his speeches. and again, what is jarring to me, he has been pushed back on

by sean hannity, but he doubled down. he has been pushed back on by laura ingraham but doubled down. he was pushed back -- howie kurtz, doubled down. harris faulkner, doubled down. he is laying the pros dent. why else would somebody make statements that were against their interest, which is i'm going to be an autocrat, i am going to call, you know, my opponents enemy combatants, the enemy within, and go after him, which he keeps promising to do, even his conservative, well, pro-trump fox news hosts keep saying, but you don't really mean that, do you? and he says, yes, i do. what does that mean for americans? >> that's that common interview on fox news, the interviewer tries to coach donald trump to the right answer and he refuses. my reaction is, how many times

does he have to say these things before people start to believe him? they are not one-offs, not slips of the tongue. this is his campaign narrative that he is going to seize power and do what he wants with it. and believe me, all the people who are there now, provide some kind of a bumper or a guardrail against his autocratic tendencies are going to be long gone and be installed because they go along with what he said. the arnold palmer comments got a lot of strength over the weekend. but what was more serious, what you said, joe, which is the repeated -- not one-offs, repeated insistence about what he is going to do with his power should he get it back. >> yeah. and he keeps making that promise. mika, in making that promise, he is again, he is laying a precedent and as bill maher said this weekend, he said, it's not

trump derangement syndrome to quote donald trump, because that's what people say. they go, oh, you got trump derangement syndrome because you are saying these crazy things. no. all we are doing is quoting what donald trump keeps saying even when fox news hosts keep trying to push him off of it. >> right. >> and that is a promise. and -- >> it's also -- >> it's almost his closing campaign -- >> right. it's also a playbook to have fox news back him up, avoid it, whatever, saying he didn't mean it. but to say these things that are literal and dangerous and true, and he's carried out similar threats before. we've seen it. but also as you mentioned, willie, to sort of pepper them with crazy talk about genitalia and other things that distract people, perhaps they will focus on it or focus on his swaying and sitting there for -- that's disturbing. not as disturbing as saying you

will use the military to go after your political rivals. new polls, one final point about kamala harris and liz cheney and seeing them up on stage together talking about democracy and talking about the dangers of a second trump administration. i just found it striking as well to see two women of wisdom and experience from two completely different backgrounds and two completely different points of view being the example, holding up the pillars of freedom together. it was -- it was really impressive and i hope young women everywhere and everyone everywhere takes a look at what they are doing right now in this moment where what is needed is strength to stand up and speak out and not to cower. all right. we are going to sneak in a break to load up that new

polling i just mentioned that shows a dramatic shift when it comes to how voters view the presidential candidates. "morning joe" is back in a moment. for any taste, or any diet, at prices you love. delivered fast. for low prices, for life of pets, there's chewy. here's to getting better with age. here's to beating these two every thursday. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need, and the flavor you love. so, here's to now... now available: boost max!

>> there is a plane to take us to miami in an hour. don't make a big thing about it. i know it was you. you broke my heart.

you broke my heart. >> that is one of the most iconic scenes arguably in movie history featuring al pacino in "the godfather" 2. last week joe had the chance to sit down with the legendary academy award-winning actor who recently released his memoir "sonny boy," which was his childhood nickname. they reflected on his incredible journey from an apartment super in manhattan to playing one of the greatest characters ever. michael corleone under direction of francis ford coppola. take a look. >> it's a great honor. >> it's an honor to be here. >> you had a lot of odd jobs and reading this book i found out i lived in an apartment on 68th and central park west. >> i can't believe it. >> i am walking in and a lady

says, pacino was a super. may have been one of the worst ever. yeah, yeah. then i read in the book, you were a super at this apartment complex. >> i was, like, young 21, 22. and i had -- someone took a photo of me. actors get photos, 8 by 10s. i put it on the door of my -- with band-aids to keep it on the door super. and i put super underneath the picture. >> but you went through some tough times. but martin sheen, who is just a wonderful, beautiful man. >> oh, yeah. >> that comes through in your book, too. talk about marty sheen. >> he came into my class, marty sheen. he did this monologue. i never seen acting that great. it was great acting. and i was, you know, i was enamored with him. he and i would -- there was a

place called the living theater. it was on 14th street and 6th avenue. and we were working for them at the theater putting down the -- you know you have to set up the stage before the actors start doing it at 8:00. we would lay the rugs and stuff. i remember being in the back with marty. we are dirty because we used to clean the toilets. we are in the back of the theater looking at the play, you know. my god, look at that. that's amazing. >> so you had success in the theater. >> yeah. >> and then your agent says to you? >> i need you to play out to the west coast, see francis ford coppola. >> he saw me in the play. >> right. >> and i had a manager by that time. i had tun a couple of plays. i also won a tony award. >> right. >> so i was a little bit in the conversation. >> right. >> so, obviously, he saw the

play. and he asked me to come out to san francisco to the agent. i thought, well, i don't want to go there. i was afraid of planes. >> you didn't want to fly? >> i didn't want to fly. so my manager says, you are going out with me. i will go with you. so i went there. i got to know francis. so he knew me a little before he called me for "godfather." >> he believed in you even though nobody else did. >> oh, yeah. >> and you felt it? >> he called me at my house a year later. this is how this thing works, what we do. it works that way. and he said, al, they gave me "the godfather." i'm going to direct "the godfather." that's good. i knew this was great big book. everybody was talking about. everybody read it. it was one of those. and so whether it was going to be a movie, wow. then he said, yeah. i said, well, that's great, francis. i said, wow. he said, yeah.

and i want you to play -- you couldn't believe that? >> i said, he is going too far. he is out there in san francisco. god knows what. practically humored him until i thought of paramount pictures. i thought, high as him, they are smart. >> right. >> they know how good he is. they know how much he is a genius. and so i thought, well, they're smart. and he wants me in. that's not so smart, you know? anyway, i said call my -- called my grandmother up. she was the only one left in my family. i said, granny, i think they are asking me -- you know the book, "the godfather"? yeah, yeah, i heard of it, you know. yeah, they want me to be in it. imagine that? play michael. she calls me back in about give feep minutes and says, oh, sonny, granddaddy was born

there. corleone. >> unbelievable. >> my grandfather was born in corleone, sicily. >> and you had to start thinking about it? >> i did. this is crazy. you know? this is the fates, whatever. >> but you had so many challenges in that role. they didn't want -- you know, the exact -- the execs didn't want you. it was tough. everything you right is so vivid. he calls you, says i need to talk to you, and he is eating dinner with his family. and you are forced to do what? >> well -- >> stand by the table? >> yeah. and i'm standing there. vivid to me. i am standing at the table. i know the family there. >> family's sitting down eating. >> eating. so i'm standing there and francis is eating. and he just is like this saying, you know, you know how much i

feel about you and how much i stood up for you and wanted you and i'm standing there saying, yeah. i know what's coming. so he says, and you are not cutting it, man. you are just not doing it. i thought, what a am i not doing? i am not doing. to myself. i said, wow. he said i put some rushes together, meaning film we had shot already. it was in the can and they are going to show it to me. he says if, go look at it. it's at paramount. >> may the lord be with you and -- >> i said, well, nice standing with you, and i left. enjoy your meal. i will just go out and kill myself. it's okay. so i went to the paramount thing. i started looking at the rushes. and i thought, wow, this is not so bad. i mean, i am looking at myself, because i had planned it.

>> right, it's planned as an artist. >> yes. >> you are starting -- >> yes. >> with michael. so it has the build, right? >> exactly right. >> and they gave you a lousy scene starting -- >> yeah. >> johnny is my father's godson. >> what are you supposed to do? >> a couple of teenagers. >> exactly. >> and it was to show nothing. i didn't want it to particularly. i wanted to just blend because my whole idea of the part was that it would, you know, finally show itself. at the end of this kind of this film, this guy becomes a sort of enigma, and that was all my thoughts. i think francis felt the same way, too. i couldn't communicate, either the amount of experience i had. i don't know what kept me from saying this. but when i saw the footage, i thought, i guess -- >> you felt good? >> i felt, oh, it's not very good, so to speak, whatever that

means, good. and then i went back to him and i couldn't tell him that this is all a plan, francis. i couldn't articulate it. i said, i see what you mean. i see what you mean. i know what you are talking about. and i went in the church. i would sit there in a pew thinking, talking to god. i said, well, so i went in, next thing you know they are to go the scene in the restaurant where michael shoots -- >> right. >> so i was prepared for that. that was sort of cool. i could do that stuff, you know? that was the pivot, a pivot. and the scene is very clear. you can understand what's going on. and the bill is good. i went in there and i did it. the story was, i wasn't supposed to be shot that day. they weren't going to fire me, you know? and they moved it up. and i did the scene, and, you

know, it came off. those two guys are such great guys. i mean, sterling hayden. they were so good to me and they were so good actors. and they knew something -- >> they knew. that's what you said about all of the -- all of the actors in "the godfather." >> oh, man. >> they knew you were in trouble. it's like they put their arms around you? >> exactly. >> that's awesome. >> and, you know, i will never forget it. >> of course, everybody looks back and they go, of course "the godfather" is going to be a great hit. of course it was going to be a classic. but actually, while it was going on, you said, you know, as an actor, you don't really know. and everybody has doubts because really it's you do your parts, you leave, you start something else, and what they do with the editing, what the director does. you said there was one moment

you said, you know what? this we may have a shot. and it's when you see francis ford coppola weeping in a cemetery. >> there was -- burying the godfather, everybody is at the cemetery, people coming in, coming out. the day over. i am happy because i could go have a drink. i had no lines that day. so i felt kinda good. so i go walking, you know, gingerly to my camper. i see sitting in a distance francis coppola on a tombstone. he is balling. he is heaving. i mean, he is just -- i said, what's the matter, francis? and he looks up, tears in his eyes, and he says, they won't give me another setup. they won't give me another setup. meaning -- >> he can't -- >> another shot. >> and i thought, this guy, he

cares, my god. look at him. i mean, i don't know what to say. i just said, uh-oh, i think he is going to -- he is on to something. if he cares this much, passion for that thing, that's a good sign. so, then i started to think, maybe this is a good movie or something. >> coming up next, we will have more from joe's sitdown with academy award-winning actor al pacino where they talk about his struggles with fame and addiction. we'll be right back.

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still ahead on "morning joe" -- >> you know the difference in the old days, you never played negative ads. in other words, when i leave, i will be hit by five or six ads. in the old days, you never had

-- >> fox news? >> yeah. >> in the old days, ian sams. >> in the old days, ian sams was at the university of alabama, which explains why they never had him on the show. >> there's that. donald trump on friday complaining about our next guest, ian sams, he joins us in the fourth hour. first, more of joe's wide ranging conversation with al pacino. they talk about "the godfather," hollywood fame, and the oscar-winner's near-death experience with covid. that is straight ahead on "morning joe." now with skyrizi, i'm all in with clearer skin. ♪ things are getting clearer ♪ (♪♪) ♪ i feel free ♪ (♪♪) ♪ to bare my skin, yeah that's all me. ♪ ♪ nothing is everything ♪ (♪♪) with skyrizi, 3 out of 4 people achieved 90%

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that's football, guys. that's all it is. now, what are you gonna do? >> that was a scene featuring al pacino as a football coach in any given sunday. i recently sat down with him who is out with a memoir titled "sonny boy." we talked about his struggle to deal with newfound fame after the success of "the godfather." >> a lot of people don't want to talk about this, how suffocating fame was for you. first time, you are on the corner, there is thread head, hey, how you to go? hi, michael. you are like, uh-oh, right? >> my world is over. >> my world is over. >> dumb ass world is over. >> you started drinking more, self-medicating, the pressure,

the anxiety. talk about that. >> it was very strange to have this. you know, i was shot out of a cannon. that's what it felt like. that's how i adjusted to it. probably no wonder i didn't look at "the godfather" much. it reminded me of the state of my life, i guess. i didn't know how to take advantage of that. i didn't know how to take advantage or recognize what was going on because, you know, we usually earn friendships because we earn them. people, we get -- i like him or i like her. we enjoy each other's company, because we do things which is a part of our soul, part of our humanity, and that's how you -- and you get -- that's how you make friends. >> right. >> i didn't have to do that. all of a sudden i stand there and everything came to me. now, that's a dream, right? that's like, i wish i had that. sometimes when you are driving around, you say i wish everybody -- the traffic would just clear up and let me

through. >> right. >> and you have that feeling. you don't know how to handle it. i didn't know how. i wasn't prepared for it. >> so you sort of self-medicated? >> yeah. >> with drinking? >> yeah. and then i started doing other films and start working, because working has always been my life boat. that's my life raft, working. >> right. >> and i think that's what kept me alive. that keeps -- knock on wood. keeps going. >> and i cross myself, exactly. you know, there is this great scene, because there is the madness after "the godfather" and the craziness and everybody's around. >> yeah. >> hollywood finally decides they are going to give you what you should have gotten 20 years earlier, an academy award. and you write about how there wasn't the after glow. you weren't pumping your fists. there was actually a really zen

moment. >> yeah. >>en on the plane? could you tell everybody about that? >> before i won it and then after i won it. there is a good story about "serpico." being nominated and getting so high and drunk that i wouldn't know how to get on the stage. >> so diane keaton, jeff bridges, you're there. >> yeah. >> and you are so high -- >> yeah. >> so drunk, by the time that -- you are like, i hope i don't win this. >> i knew i -- i went there, i knew i wouldn't win. charlie went with me. they are not going to let these guys down. i am going to the thing. i sat there with dianne. we were very close, dianne and i, and we sat there. i was very drunk. i had to go on a plane. but i sat there. i looked sort of impasse i have, you know, kind of -- but at the same time, i'm thinking, well, we're watching this, i'm telling her little jokes, you know. little jokes.

she is laughing. i'm telling the jokes. as i'm telling them, i is popping valium. then i turn and jeff bridges, the great actor, jeff bridges is sitting next to me. he didn't know me, knew me, i don't know what it was. i might have seen me taking all these pills. i don't know ma it was. he was indifferent. and i said to him, look, i guess, you know, they are not going to get the world series actor award. he said, what do you mean? i said, because an hour's gone by. no best actor thing. he said to me, this is three hours. three hours? oh, my god. i am not going to make it. i know it. i am not going to make it. so i went. into some spasm. i said, this is three hours long, and that's what my whole

feeling was about -- the fear, mixed with i don't belong here kind of feeling. i don't know what it was. what made me like this. but when jack lemmon won, i was, what? this guy is a great guy. look how happy he is. his fellow exacter. >> exactly. >> i knew i couldn't make it up on the stage. >> you got up to this -- >> i didn't have a speech. ♪♪ ♪♪ >> and then ever after you won, again very zen about it. it was you and it was the oscar on a plane. and you were fine, right? >> bregman called me back. i was doing carlito's way. i had to get back on the set. i didn't get a chance to enjoy that evening or live it. i had to get on a plane and go back to new york to do this thing. then i sat on this big plane by

myself. my girlfriend was staying in california and i was by myself with my oscar. >> right. >> and i held my oscar, and i remember the time when i was on the subway train when i got into the actor's studio. i must have been 22, 23. and i looked in the mirror on the, you know, the reflection. i remember standing there thinking, i am an actor. i'm an actor now. i am in the actor's studio now. i am an actor. and i said i -- i said, i got an oscar. wow. it just -- and it felt good. and i just -- and for two weeks after, it's like winning the olympics. people come up, hey, great. and you just say, eh, and then it's gone. >> it's interesting though. you win, but you are a working actor. like you said earlier, it's your life raft. you do that, even going into

"serpico," you realized you had a girlfriend and at that stage you realized i am just not going to be able to really commit to anybody. >> that's right. >> and do what i'm doing? >> that's right. >> right? >> yeah. i saw that, because i saw it -- getting in the way. and i was young at the time. i did "serpico," i was very -- i didn't even know where i was, you know? i was drinking, of course, but also having a good time, too. but that was my life. it was just, you know, coming, going, who cares? i had my booze. that's all i know. i'm taken care of. but it was a pleasant time for me for a whie. >> for a while. but you had your booze and then you didn't. you said, it didn't work with you, but talk about how -- >> well, i was getting there, you know. i was on my way to something

that is was, you know, brings happiness and tragedy sometimes. i remember just going -- and i had a hard time, i have to say, it was difficult to do "godfather" 2 because that character was so, you know, omnipresent and difficult things i had to do. >> no way you could ever forgive me. not with this sicilian thing that has been going on for 2,000 years. >> he kills his own brother. he goes through so much. and but at the same time, i was once again broken up. i was alone. then traveling all over with it, with "the godfather," different places we went to. >> i almost died myself. >> in my home! in my bedroom where my wife sleeps. where my children come and play with their toys.

>> and i think it weighed on me. i came out of that. then i did dog day afternoon, which was, you know, that was wild. >> nobody move! get over there. okay. all right. get away from the alarms. >> and i don't know. it just sort of crept up on me. i didn't know what i was doing really. i knew it when i was working. when i was developing characters and doing plays, whatever. i knew what i was doing. but handling a life at that time with what i was imbibing in, you know, all this stuff, i am not saying i didn't have great times, but it was -- it got not so good. then pretty soon, later i found myself -- i took off four years. for four years, i took off. and that's when i had a few failures, big-time failures. >> say hello to my little

friend! >> "scarface" was a huge failure. not many people know that. >> i didn't know that. >> yeah. "scarface" was a huge failure? >> yeah, when it came out. >> financially? >> the audience came, but not in droves. and after a while, you know, it was difficult because this movie is different. >> it's okay. you tell frank i keep this guy on ice for him. >> then it started catching on. you had hip-hop, the hip-hop generation just took it, and the rappers took it and made it and embraced it and understood it. and then out of an armed vhss came out, all of a sudden, dvds, this thing spreads all over the world. it just kept going. it was, you know, just out of nowhere. biggest movie i never made.

"godfather" is,gy he is, but it's close. >> up next, pacino opens up about getting fleeced for $50 million, and a near-death experience during covid. that's straight ahead on "morning joe." one versus the other. new sensodyne clinical white, it provides 2 shades whiter teeth as well as providing 24/7 sensitivity protection. patients are going to love to see sensodyne on the shelf. shopify's point of sale system helps you sell at every stage of your business. with fast and secure payment. card readers you can rely on. and one place to manage it all. whatever the stage, businesses that grow grow with shopify. have you ever considered getting a walk-in tub? well, look no further! safe step's best offer, just got better! now, when you purchase your brand new safe step walk-in tub, you'll receive a free shower package. yes, a free shower package! and if you call today,

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>> hem low. >> hello. i have a meeting a handsome cowboy man. >> he is waiting for you in the bar. >> well, since i just finished watching a film festival, i think i know who you are. put it there. >> it's my pleasure, mr. schwartz. thank you for taking an interest. >> al pacino in a late career role as a classic movie agent from quentin tarantino's ""once

upon a time in hollywood."" "sonny boy" is the just released memoir, and here in the final part of a revealing conversation with the legendary actor we get the story behind some of his past financial struggles and his tumultuous upbringing in the bronx. >> i have to say, i had never heard until this book came out about how you were fleeced. >> fleeced? >> money? >> yeah. all my money was gone. >> all your money was gone. from 50 million -- >> a fool and his money soon parting. >> your father the accountant -- >> i just didn't think about money. some people don't. i mean, you think about it, of course, especially, you know, when you have kids. then it comes into play. i think, yeah, my thing with money, and then i find out that

it's gone. all of it's gone. i got about three different places i live. >> right. >> i am supporting -- >> $400,000 -- >> i had a $400 -- >> landscaping for a house that you never went to. >> in l.a., i never went to, of course. you see, i didn't look at certain things. unfortunately, i still don't, you know. i think that's -- i have to be aware of those things. and it was a big thing. and my accountant went away for seven years. prison. >> a couple of things about this book that stood out to me. one, really vivid, vivid storytelling, right? you can tell you grew up around people that told stories. >> yes. >> and the second part, strangely enough, strange part, have this really big character, huge character. you had "scarface," everything else, but there's a humility here. there are no how i won the war

stories in here. there's a real humility and a gratitude. is that your grandparents? >> everything. well, the environment i grew up in. that was certainly from my grandfather, i know that. but my mom too, she was that way. i guess i was the showoff in the apartment. i remember coing in the apartment and i would do this whole thing with deaths. i would just fall down. i was swinging on the fair escape and i fell right on my head. >> oh. >> i had a concussion, a bad one. i think it affected my whole life. >> in a pretty positive way. >> well -- >> yeah. >> and i thought why is my brain in a fog? i had covid three times. they say it fogs up in covid.

>> you almost died from covid. >> well -- >> you're a little skeptical. >> i'm not so sure. i mean, there i was. i'm talking to the guy who's giving me, you know, iv. i'm looking at him trying to remember my name. i couldn't think anything. i opened my eyes and there was five or six paramedics in my living room, and there were two doctors covered from head to foot with this stuff like we're on another planet. >> right. >> ambulance, because i told mike, my assistant -- they told him that my pulse stopped. that's a tough thing to hear, you know? you get a little panicked. >> mm-hm. >> i don't know. how could all those people have gathered there and were ready to

take me somewhere? it had to take more than 30 seconds. it had to take like four or five minutes, tops, right? i can't answer that if i was dead, my brain dead, no. that's the after effect. i kept thinking, did i really die? to be or not to be? >> exactly. i want to read from the book. you said, this life is a dream, as shakespeare said. >> yeah. >> you said memories are like wings. they keep you flying like a bird on the win. if i'm lucky enough, if i get to heaven, perhaps i'll get to reunite with my mother there. all i want is a chance to walk up to her, look in her eyes and simply say, hey ma, look what happened to me. >> oh geez, that's great. >> what a ride.

>> that's beautiful. >> no, no, no. what a ride. talk about that. look what happened to me, a kid from the bronx that is poor, hungry. you went through the tragedy of losing a mom, having an absent dad. >> well, what i had, though, is i had a connection to the streets with my friends. i think a that's what saved my life, because i really loved my friends. unfortunately they all went the way of the needle, but i loved them. it was a real -- i always felt this close like to tom sawyer, huckleberry -- it has that sort of reflection there. we were adventurous. we were street people, but we were together. and we lived in this world where we were from time to time threatened and had to go out,

times we were together. helped, you know? just living through all the adventures we had. >> you said the one thing you had that your friends didn't have, your mother, grandparent who is cared for you. >> that's right. >> that's right. i had family. that's what it is. it's family. >> that's what this is about. >> yeah. >> i think i know you on the screen. >> yeah. >> love you, have read about -- really learned so much about you. i'm so grateful. >> i really learned about you. you're a really good interviewer. [ laughter ] but you do a lot of other things too. i know that. >> the storytelling is amazing. thank you so much. >> thank you so much. >> that was my conversation with hollywood icon al pacino.

i also sat down with bill maur and jimmy kimmel. we're going to bring those interviews to you later this week. amy klobuchar is our guest right after the break on "morning joe." our guest right after the break on "morning joe." what does a robot know about love? how to translate that leap inside the human heart into something we can see and hold. the fingerprints we leave behind show how determined we are to give the world a piece of ourselves. etsy.

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i love salt. wait a minute. i spilled some. i'm very superstitious. you take it for granted. you say, gave me french fries. i'll never forget that experience. i always thought somebody stuffed them in with their hand. i don't like that. they don't do that. they never touch them. it's really great.

[ laughter ] >> are you [ bleep ] forrest gump? what are we talking about here? for decades that you've been eating mcdonald's and you think the fries come out of that boiling oil and the workers who make $4.25 an hour just reach in with their hands. [ screams ] >> oh god, someone order ice cream! >> oh my lord. welcome to the fourth hour of "morning joe." it is 6:00 a.m. on the west coast, 9:00 a.m. in the east. vice president kamala harris and former president donald trump out on the campaign trail in

multiple battleground states yesterday. trump was in north carolina, while harris was joined by former republican congresswoman liz cheney in three blue wall states. nbc news senior capitol hill correspondent garrett haake has more. >> reporter: donald trump overnight preaching to the political choir, wrapping up a three-stop day in north carolina with a faith-focused event outside charlotte. >> we tell christians to get out and vote. >> reporter: earlier the former president visiting asheville, which was hit hard by hurricane helene. saying fema was doing a bad job. he carried north carolina in both previous white house runs, which polls show now is neck and neck. >> we will end the looting, ransacking, pillaging and raping of north carolina and frankly

every other state in the union. >> reporter: as early voting breaks records in north carolina, the former president, who consistently raises questions about election integrity, acknowledges he has not seen evidence of impropriety this year. >> i have not seen. >> reporter: vice president kamala harris campaigning across pennsylvania, michigan and wisconsin. the vice president courting republican-leaning voters in all three states, appearing in suburban counties where nikki haley performed well against trump. >> i promise to be a president for all americans. >> reporter: she was joined by former cooperate and fierce trump critic liz cheney, with this message to republicans. >> if you're at all concerned, you can vote your conscience and not ever have to say a word to anybody. >> reporter: later in wisconsin taking this swipe at former

president donald trump. >> if you wouldn't hire somebody to baby silt your kids, you shouldn't mike that guy the president of the united states. >> reporter: cheney saying she's been disturbed after the roe v. wade reversal. >> they are resulting in women not getting the care they need. >> we are talking about whether you will have a president of the united states who takes seriously their duty and their oath to uphold the constitution of the united states. >> that's garrett haake with that report. liz cheney bringing up an excellent point. there are a lot of people, including myself, in the past who have said abortion should be handled at the states. when i said that you had

governors like mitt romney, governors like jeb bush, governors who actually were conservative, but were not radical. liz cheney saying there and certainly i'm saying it right here, i don't think, unfortunately -- and it was, again, a lack of imagination on our part. >> mm-hm. >> we never imagined just how radical the state legislatures would be. that was a mistake. they have become so much more radical. when, again, you had republican governors like mitt romney, republican governors like jeb bush. donald trump in the garrett haake clip lying -- what a surprise -- still about hurricane recovery. again, don't take my word for it, even though i'm far more conservative than, probably if you're a republican, any republican you voted for. i mean, really conservative. i believe in balancing the budget and pushing back against

russian aggression, kind of like ronald reagan, kind of like every republican before donald trump came onto the national scene. but don't listen to me. listen to georgia's republican governor kemp, who said he's gotten everything he's asked for from the biden/harris administration. talk to conservative governor mcmaster, a republican, who again, says they have gotten everything they have asked for for the administration. you can ask north carolina's democratic governor or their republican senator tom tillis, who said they've gotten everything they've asked for from the biden/harris administration. or you can ask governor lee from tennessee, again, a guy who's never been called a squish, who said, again, everything that

they've needed from the biden/harris administration, even went onto warn, as did the "charlotte observer" that these lies are dangerous for the very people who have needed help the most. in fact, the republican governor of tennessee, governor lee, rightly saying that there's a lot of disinformation that he said may be coming from foreign sources to try to distract and try to hurt those people in the states affected by these hurricanes. so donald trump is lying if you believe every republican governor that was impacted by these hurricanes. >> he's also amplified by a lot of power and a lot of reach like elon musk. it seems like right now is the time -- i don't know what the possibility of this is, but it's almost like america needs a disinformation hotline that is

live online at all times where people can quickly go and check whether or not something is true and show the sources behind it. but on another point, i'd like to talk about the point you made about abortion. bouncing off of what liz cheney said because it was so important to this election and to what's at stake and how close this is, nobody understands more than women how thard this is right now, how difficult this election is going to be for kamala harris and anybody who enjoys being a free person in the united states of america. women have been absolutely, to build on that point, abandoned by what donald trump did in his first term, by his policies. and they are finding themselves, women, all women, completely left alone to wing it, just to wing it in what would be and are the most desperate times of a

woman's life, the most desperate moments imaginable, managing a reproductive emergency. they are not being given what is possible. treatment is being denied to women right now. this is going to take a lot of us. and we know, we women know that it may not be enough. we know that. we've been there. we are there right now. but women also know -- and you can see that in kamala harris and liz cheney especially, we know to fight even when it's bleak. and, boy, is it bleak in many ways. the fact that we are fighting right now for health care we used to have but don't because of donald trump. let's look at -- >> wait. you say it's bleak. >> the fact that we're even at

this moment. >> what women have been dealing with over the past year or two where they're denied life-saving medical care. >> because of what donald trump did. >> because of what donald trump is doing. it's why you're seeing a lot of women voting early. it's why you're seeing polls that aren't bleak. it's why you're seeing, i believe, again, a tied race, but a tied race that seems now, two weeks out, long way to go, it seems right now there are a lot of subtle shifts going in kamala harris' direction. again, long way to go. >> long way to go. >> people can pick this early voting number or that early voting number, they can pick this poll or that poll, and they're actually doing it. they can tell two completely different stories. long way to go. if 2024 is anything like 2023 or 2022, women will be the

difference makers. new polling shows the democratic ticket of kamala harris and tim walz remains more favorable than their republican counterparts. the latest ap poll finds that 51% have a favorable view of the vice president, and 41% have a favorable view of her running mate, a four-point net positive. compare that to 40% who have a favorable view of donald trump, underwater by 18 points, and just 33% view his running mate jd vance, favorably underwater by 18 points. >> i want to look at these numbers. jonathan lemire, they're stark. let's keep them up for a second. you have jd vance underwater by 18 points, donald trump underwater by 18 points.

tim walz, despite all the attacks, constant attacks from the right, constant barrage of insane things said about him, walz up by four. he's plus four. and kamala harris, unlike any other, i think, candidate that's run in learn elections -- i would need to check keir stormer to see what his favorables and unfavorables in britain were when he was running. "the financial times" ran an article a year ago saying that almost every politician in the west has terrible favorability numbers. they pointed to macron, who was down in the low 30s, and still won the election. these numbers, harris really surprise, surprising durability for her favorables. when you look, again, at all the

things republicans have said about her in the past few months and the fact, jonathan, again, she's once again as jim garty said in the national review being underestimated. >> those are very encouraging numbers for democrats. tim walz has been the victim of really up founded conspiracy theories. the "washington post" debunked one and fact checked it and found it was false. kamala harris, while she was vice president while biden was at the top of the ticket, harris was underwater in many polls. it's been a remarkable change since she became the de facto nominee. american voters, when they got to know her, liked her. the high watermark has come down since july or the convention in august, but the number is still positive, still above water.

contrast that with the two republicans, trump and especially vance, it's a significant difference. there are a lot of democrats, especially in the harris campaign, they like harris. b, they're just tired of trump. they dislike him and they're tired of him, and they aren't going to make that choice again. >> let's bring in ian sams. ian, you got name checked by donald trump. welcome to the club. must be something about university of alabama grads. i don't know. i want to talk about this ap poll. we talked about the favorable/unfavorables which anybody would look at and say that's good news for kamala harris and tim walz. also the ap poll looked at economic issues. this was something joe biden was upside down on in a dramatic way, and harris when the campaign started, also upside down. here they feel that harris will

handle taxes in the middle class better than donald trump. harris will handle jobs and employment better than donald trump. this is an important issue. the cost of housing, more voters in this ap poll believe that harris will handle the cost of housing better than donald trump. the cost of groceries, which, again, a huge issue for americans week in and week out, it's within the margin of error, which is really hard to believe. then you have tariffs, where donald trump has a five-point advantage. but, ian, there was a lot of consternation in the west wing a year ago when you had the biden team trot out bidenomics to tell people, things aren't as pad as you think they are. this is what bidenomics has done, where a year later it is now obvious that the united

states' economy is the envy of the world. everybody has said it. everybody across the world is saying it, except for people attached to the trump campaign. i'm curious, ian, what do you think has had -- how did we see a turning on this issue so now in many ways kamala harris is seen as somebody who would be a better steward of the economy than donald trump, something unimaginable even a month ago? >> yeah. even on the macro question of who could handle the economy better we've seen donald trump's margin narrow. a couple reasons why. she made the economy her top focus. she put out a plan to tackle rising costs and prices. she put out a plan to improve and expand small businesses. she put out a plan in the a.p. poll of bringing down the cost

of housing and creating millions more housing units across the country. even in the first few weeks of becoming the candidate where she established herself as focused on these issues, she told a story about her whole life. she told a story about growing up in a middle class family. her mom didn't buy a house until they were in high school. she told a story that i think really connected with a lot of middle class people which is such a stark contrast from donald trump, who grew up in manhattan getting handed millions of dollars by his dad. you're seeing consistently across these polls when you ask the question who's fighting for the middle class, more and more americans are choosing vice president harris. we've seen polling just yesterday, example, it was on cnn. they were talking about the

erosion of donald trump's support among non-college educated white voters which have been his base. are people starting to catch on that donald trump, the ostensible billionaire, who's running around america with elon musk, who has shady scams to support donald trump. are people catching onto his games? something a mcdonald's photo op can't solve. the more people know the vice president, the more they like her. when people are going to make this choice in two weeks between these two candidates, the choice is becoming even more crystallized and people are able to see that one candidate is fighting for the middle class and has more ideas and prioritizing the middle class, and the other guy is only worried about himself and his own grievances. remember the chaos that he

brought to the country. think about how difficult it would be in a second term where he's basically unshackled to do whatever he wants with unchecked water to take away freedoms people have considered their own for the last 50 years. that's what's at stake. >> donald trump, targeting the enemy within, targeting his opponents, using the military to crack down on dissent and take away people's rights. president biden painted trump as a threat to democracy in 2020 and at the 2022 midterms. should we expect similar language, that donald trump is a threat to democracy, from the vice president in these last two weeks? >> i think the vice president has been very clear about the choice between her and president

trump. as we get to the closing stretch of two weeks, there's a small number of americans who are on the fence or truly undecided. the vice president's focus is to speak to americans who can make or break this election in battleground states. liz cheney is expanding her appeal, while donald trump speaks to the maga faithful. she's laying out this is a real moment of truth for the country. these are not pot shots at donald trump. he is calling his fellow americans the enemy within. he is going to a site of devastation. i'm from tennessee in east appalachia. the flooding took out people's homes and killed people. that's where i grew up. he's going into that territory and defending people who menaced fema and disaster relief workers

with armed weaponry, and he's defending them. these are the kind of things he's going to pit americans against each other, and it's really becoming clear that in a second term he would take that to the white house. that should alarm people. the vice president is going to be explaining the threat to people's daily lives and fundamental freedoms that he poses. yes, as you heard her say with congresswoman cheney yesterday, this is someone who doesn't put the constitution first. the most conservative thing you can do is have fidelity to the constitution. how is it conservative to say that the constitution should be terminated, which donald trump has said? how is that conservative? so you hear us reaching out to conservatives and saying we may not agree on everything. you heard liz cheney yesterday saying i've been pro-life my whole career, we may not necessarily agree on every issue, but the extremism from

the republican party is not representing the conservatism i know. vice president harris is going to be laying out the stakes of this election, extremely high stakes of the election with donald trump and the way he's threatening our fundamental freedoms and constitution. when you take the guardrails that he had in his first term completely out of the equation and he's surrounded by loyalists who will do whatever he says, the danger that poses to people, whether it's medicare or social security or living wages or overtime pay. he's -- and people like steven miller who can make unchecked

decisions without anybody telling him no. >> it's important. i'm so glad you talked about that and why conservatives, who respect the constitution, understand there's really no choice but to not vote for donald trump here and to vote for kamala harris. we talked about it at the top of 6:00 where if you want to know why liz cheney is out there and why she's out with kamala harris, you go back and read the conservative mind and you read what russell kirk said, that -- and kirk, like edmond burke, the founder of conservatism, said you can tear down institutions that were built up over centuries by compromise and consensus and prudence, you can tear them down in a day by radicals who don't respect the

constitution. and kirk also said -- and this is so important in the conservative mind -- again, the most important, really since edmond burke in the rise in the revolution in france, he said we have to shun ideologies, we have to shun radicals, and it is up to conservatives to look at the world as it is, not as they hope it will be. >> yeah. >> and then decide whether they have to join forces with the party of permanence or the party of progress. and that decision is based on who will best protect the constitution, who will best protect institutions that protect the people. and, mika, most importantly, who will protect in a custom and

convention, the constitution and the things that matter the most in the strengthening of the country. >> absolutely. senior advisor of the harris/walz campaign, ian sams, thank you so much. joining us now democratic senator amy klobuchar. you worked with congresswoman cheney back in 2022 to pass the electoral count reform act. what's it like to see her out on the campaign trail with vice president harris? >> i think that this is an incredible moment. as joe was just describing, wherever you are idealogically, if you believe in our country, if you believe in america, then you have to vote against the scourge of donald trump, because, as liz captures this, this is really about our patriotic duty to uphold our democracy. and i have worked with her, of

course, on the electoral count act, something as well in the senate with senator manchin and senator collins and ushered this through to make sure we never have another january 6th again where people use the levers of an old law and try to stop the will of the people. we've now changed that. you have to have 20% in each house of congress in order to object to certain states. and we've changed concerns people had on rogue electors and governors. that's good. but i think the real thing going on right now, mika and joe, as you know, is this misinformation and this information going on that tries to suppress people from believing in our democracy and then, of course, laying the seeds for if and when donald trump loses, and i believe he will, that he is once again going to try to claim that he

won. that's why we issued this report to make clear what the rules are and how long to count out the votes. >> reforms were needed to prevent the runup to january 6th from happening again. secretary benson was on our show earlier today. she pointed to the misinformation and disinformation campaigns and intimidation campaigns at the polls and real worries that donald trump or one of his allies like an elon musk that there are going to be efforts to sow doubt and chaos at the polls in november. many what more needs to be done to safeguard these? >> the fact that elon musk is out there offering a million dollars for someone to register to vote and then you look at the rules in some of the states like in georgia where it's been banned to offer water and food

where people are in hours lines of waiting, that's an absurd situation. one of the things we wanted to do in this report -- and we issued one back before the 2020 election because we just want to make it clear to people not every state is alike. that's okay. we have a decentralized system. so states like pennsylvania and wisconsin, they don't really start counting their ballots, right, the mail-in ballots they have received and have waited to count until election day. so that creates some delays. other states like michigan have changed some of their rules to make it easier to start opening the ballots and the like a week before. many states do that, red, blue and purple as it is. that's why sometimes the votes come in later. you saw some of that in 2020. you'll probably see it again,

and we want people to be aware. when donald trump is trying to tell people, hey, there's something wrong with our system, that's not true. this is how it's always been. >> that is really demonstrative and helpful. >> not only that. i'm so glad you brought that up. i saw disinformation on x, of course, where somebody that had a big following was talking about any state that does not have the totals by election night, you know, should be arrested, they're defrauding the american people. this is something we've been talking about, you've been talking about for years. in 2020 i was saying that the state legislatures, the republicans in wisconsin, michigan and pennsylvania should do it like florida does it. we know by 9:00 at night who's

going to win. by 7:30, 7:45 we know what's happening in miami-dade, broward and palm beach county, we know where it's going because all of the early votes are counted by election day. there was a concerted effort by republicans to kill these reforms in 2020, and they've done it again in 2024 in those states, stopping early counting, which would allow us, right, to have the election called by 10:00 on election night. >> right. and it's part of the reason why we'd like to see some federal standards on this, but we have what we have right now, joe. when i look at it -- i was smiling when you said throw some of those states out. the ones that take the longest and they're never really a focus on this, mississippi and west virginia allow ballots to be received after election day and little or no advance processing.

i know we're not focused on those two states, but i have a feeling republicans might not want to throw those two states' results out. the problem is we have a decentralized system. that can be helpful for foreign powers trying to influence the election and the like, but it is important for people, when you look at this from a bigger view, to remember how chris krebs back in 2020, who was the head of cyber security for elections, said that it was the safe ex-election in history. he was then, of course, fired by donald trump. bill barr, who has been his attorney general, also said there was no widespread evidence of fraud in the election. he also left that administration. so you have now once again a system set up that is secure and you have all kinds of people trying to sow chaos, which is donald trump's specialty, to make people be afraid to vote because they think something's wrong with it or afterwards not believe in the outcome. we have seen this movie before.

that's why we have issued this report. it's on rules.senate.gov for people to look at so they understand what each of these battleground states, key presidential states, how their rules work, how many people have been voting by mail. it helps give people the information they need so they don't get sucked in by this information. >> that's rules.senate.gov. senator amy klobuchar of minnesota, thank you so much for everything you're doing. >> thank you. >> we'll see you again soon. thanks. take care. still ahead, we're going to have an update on elon musk offering $1 million a day to voters who sign his political action committee's petition. ari melber joins us next on "morning joe" to talk about that. ♪♪ n "morning joe" to talk about that ♪

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outside of bucks county, like, we're done. >> it's the overarcing message. we say we know suburban women are deeply concerned, as they should be. and i would add to the men here, you should be deeply concerned too. [ applause ] >> my job at this point in time is to get those volunteers who are fired up. look, if you're in this mode and you can doom scroll through things and watch polls, the antidote is to make sure he's never elected again. go out and do the work. >> action, action. >> that's what my day is. >> i love that, doom scroll. that's what so many people do. they doom scroll. what's not doom scrolling is looking at donald trump's own words. >> no. and actions from his past administration and actions around him, like the supreme court has given him immunity. >> when he talks about enemies from within, sounds awfully --

that his democratic opponents and people in the media are enemies within, it's an awful lot like saying they're enemy combatants, which of course, is like the war on terror, where you just call a subset of people enemy combatants and then you can arrest of without trial. >> right. >> what's so fascinating about this and really frightening is the fact that you say, well, war on terror, when else did this happen? japanese internment camps. fdr rounded up japanese americans and interned them without any trial. when he repeatedly talks about the enemy from within, is that what donald trump is trying to set up here? when he repeatedly talks about

the enemy within and you hear him on a podcast talking about japanese internment camps, how they were rounded up. can we play that bite really quickly and show you he's comparing japanese internment camps to january 6th, and now he's calling his democratic opponents enemies from within, which in his logic, would allow him to do the same thing, i think. >> why are they still being held? nobody's ever been treated like this. nobody's ever. maybe the japanese during the second world war, frankly. you know, they were held too. >> why are they still being held? they beat up cops. >> they committed crimes. >> they committed crimes. they trashed the capitol. they went into the capitol, they tried to stop the constitutional counting of the vote, which is done every january 6th. they tried to get in the way, at his insistence, of the peaceful

transfer of power. it's pretty obvious. so all of these lines are being drawn. every day he talks about nancy pelosi, adam schiff being enemies from within. >> mm-hm. >> and every day that a fox news host pushes back and says you don't mean that, do you, he says yes. he's done that four or five times where he's pushed back. >> the comments are completely chilling and real. fox news hosts avoiding it and saying he doesn't mean it, their lack of curiosity is bordering on malpractice and definitely not delivering truth or answers for the viewers. >> saying you don't know what he means is just not true. let's bring in msnbc chief legal correspondent and the host of "the beat," ari melber. >> ari, what's the legal possibilities given what donald trump has said and done and is

expressing to do, if you know, to believe him? >> i think you're both hitting it on the head. the best predictor of behavior is behavior. so this is what he tried to do in the first term. it's what he's admitting openly. and no number of mike johnson lies or fox, aw shucks, we couldn't have meant this. now, there are some people undocumented that have broken a law to be here, but we still currently have a legal process for that. if you go down the internment or the enemy combatant road, which he publicly has talked about, as soon as you go down that road,

as joe emphasized, you are asking for that lane or legal loophole. if you can do it to an enemy combatant or someone you declare is an immigrant, first, that's wrong and our system could show you examples of why that shouldn't happen. second, if you announce in bill belichick announce in bill belichic public, this is what i get to do, who's to say you don't grab some american citizen and put them in what they're calling an internment program, where's your due process to get out from that? i asked what former secretary esper said about the shocking demands miller was making which were not carried out in the first term to directly use the military on u.s. soil, which is banned. i asked him about it, and miller said on this air within the last month, i don't see what's

controversial about that. so you bet this is a big issue people need to understand, because they will date back to this campaign season, the enemy within and the other claims to say everybody knew this if they get an electoral college victory. >> talk about laying the precedent, he can very easily say, i said repeatedly i was going to arrest democrats. i said repeatedly that democrats were the enemy from within. i said it repeatedly. you know, by the way, the "wall street journal" editorial page yesterday wrote a shocking op-ed where they talk about trump derangement syndrome basically, which is actually defined now, i guess, by quoting donald trump's own words. but they went after people like ann applebaum, who grew up fighting, pushing back against communism, who has spent her entire life documenting the dangers of the soviet union, the

war crime of the soviet union, the crimes against humanity. and this is being painted as some left-wing person. i want you to clear up one more thing here. i think it's very important. it's critical. there are people that i respect who will say, well, you know, trump's already been in office for four years and nothing bad happened. then they'll go, he never arrested hillary clinton. well, i would like you to explain how he went to jeff sessions, his first attorney general and said i want you to arrest hillary clinton. sessions said we've got nothing we can arrest her on. then he did the same thing to barr. he tried in '17 and '18 to arrest hillary clinton. then two weeks before the election he started publicly and privately pressuring barr, his attorney general, to arrest joe

biden and his family, two weeks before an election. >> correct. i mean, the evidence is overwhelming. i've also heard that, joe. i don't know if we're talking to the same people or people who are just talking to each other on some, i don't know, tax cut group chat, but the evidence is there. we've heard people minimize or run away from it, and some people might be less informed. but the fact that they fail at certain things, they fail at the coup. many people are convicted in prison and other charges, who had due process, court appeals. some of those cases separately from his open went to the supreme court. they're convicted on sedition charges because they tried and failed to have a coup. donald trump tried and failed to get investigations of the bidens. had he succeeded, had that come

out in a different order and there has been a big serious-sounding foreign investigation of hunter biden and joe biden before the democratic primary, if it was timed right, that might have been the thing that shifted it the other way. donald trump correctly identified one thing which is that joe biden was the bigger challenge to him in 2020. he requested the hillary clinton investigation you mentioned. he had a trumped-up investigation of john kerry. of course, he was a democratic nominee and secretary of state. those are just some. if we had more time, we could make a longer list. >> what about durham as well? durham made an absolute fool of himself going on what donald trump would call a witch hunt. >> absolutely. talk about journalists, he's

publicly threatened to pull licenses. he's gone after bezos and other very powerful people just because they're affiliated with one newspaper. jeff bezos owns a lot of stuff. it's the newspaper and fact checking that so upset donald trump. he went after cnn's merger. that was last time. the first comey memo -- this is often forgotten because there's such a pile of malfeasance. the first comey memo detailed failed requests to arrest "new york times" journalists, saying if we could just jail one, we could send a message. that was item eight or 15, because there were other more serious ones. that's in the early comey memos. james comey was a registered republican who had a history in the bush administration. he wrote that down because he was concerned about the illicit

or possibly illegal targeting of the times. >> the outsized role elon musk is playing in this election, but in particular this offer to pay people to register to vote, can you talk to us about the legality of that? >> yeah. federal law already bans efforts to buy voter registration. before you even get to he is also nudging toward trump, which the topics in his so-called petition seem to do, so depending on how the courts view this -- if they view it as an inducement to register -- he said it's money for people who have already registered. but a larger question. if it's october in a general election and the only way you can get people to agree with you is to pay them, maybe your ideas aren't that popular.

>> we'll be watching "the beat" weeknights at 6:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. coming up, the new off-broadway play "waldon" portrays estranged twin cysters forced to reunite and make a choice. choice liberty mutual customized my car insurance so i saved hundreds. with the money i saved i thought i'd get a wax figure of myself. oh! right in the temporal lobe! beat it, punks! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪

i hear that music and my feet just start tapping. my grandchildren, they're sixth generation of dancers. it's what my family is all about. i thought i knew a lot about our irish roots. i was surprised to learn so many more things from ancestry. 1892. oh and here's the boat they came over on. there was a julie healy, a mary healy, this is all their names? yes, yes. wow.

welcome back to "morning joe." a new off broadway play is addressing some of humanity's greatest challenges with a dose of science fiction and a healthy amount of family drama. the play titled "walden" is set in the near future on earth, and follows estranged twin sisters, stella, a former nasa scientist, and cassie, a current nasa scientist, whose relationship with one another is as fraught as the planet they inhabit and may have to leave behind. joining us now, the show's co-stars, emmy rossum, who plays stella, and zoe winters, who

plays cassie. thank you, both, for being here. we really appreciate it. >> thank you for having us. >> let's go -- emmy, we'll start with you. talk to us about what drew you to this production. >> everything. the artists involved, the playwright, amy berryman, the director, whitney white, just the chance to work on something that is grounded sci-fi, that is tackling these issues of how do we talk to each other, how do we bridge the gaps of our differences, it is incredibly funny and the chance to do it at the tony kiser theater which is so intimate, 300 seats, the front row we can literally feel people, eight feet in front of us, it has incredible energy, the play is really fast moving, a tight 90 minutes and the artistry is so high. it is really so fun. >> so, zoe, we were joking as you sat down here about the small theater space, how intimate it is. you can hear people breathing or checking their phones, you say they don't -- >> they're not checking their phones. >> it is a tight 90 minutes. what is that like, to be so

aware of the audience right there? >> it is an amazing, to do live theater is just so incredible and there is nothing like it. there are certain, you know -- not during this play, but i did a play years ago where a woman in the front row was unwrapping something from a plastic bag for like 15 minutes and what she pulled out of it was another plastic bag. so there are moments where you're really experiencing humanity in an interesting way. but live theater is amazing and it is 300 seat theater as emmy said, so it is really, really intimate, so you're able to take the audience on this journey and working -- this isn't the first production of this play, but amy berryman, the writer, is in the room, so, really tracking with an audience what they're receiving, what they're being moved by, and then also being in rehearsals. we're in a preview process right now. so being able to experience that and track that and working on a play having a playwright in the room and going into performances at night with a live audience, there is nothing better.

>> so, zoe, we know you from "succession" and you, emmy, from "shameless." >> coming in, julie, one of your producers said when they have new reporters come in to do screen tests they tell them not to do it like we did it on "succession." so thanks for having me. >> there is a job opportunity for me here. i think this is my second audition. >> many hours of programming to fill. >> you think live theater is so different because you can feel the energy of the audience and it feels different every time you get to tell the story that the energy you give and the truth that you give, the real things that we get to experience that are, like, it is like a circle with the audience you can feel what they're giving you and you're giving it back to them and they're so close, it is really incredible. >> obvious chemistry. you guys are playing sisters, twins. did you know each other before this? >> we didn't. >> no, we didn't. and we immediately started chatting, and i think what we both really quickly recognized

in each other was a huge work ethic. >> yes. >> we were texting each other constantly. one of the things that emmy brought into our research early on was this book by heena debrez who wrote this book called "how to -- the philosophy of twinship" and she's a philosopher at wellesley. >> we met with her and we met different sets of twins as well. >> we both did an incredible amount of research, and met with her and i met with an astronaut, dr. anna lee fisher who was the first mother to go to space. she had just had a baby and went to space and was one of six female astronauts that were introduced into the nasa organization. so we have done incredible amount of research. we have amazing chemistry on stage and i also think that we have -- i mean, don't you? >> i don't know, we'll find out. >> but you feel it.

>> i love you, yes. >> on that note, we'll leave it right there. the new off broadway play "walden," co-stars emmy rossum and zoe winters, thank you, both, good luck. and that does it for us this morning here on "morning joe." we'll catch you back here tomorrow morning. ana cabrera picks up our coverage right now after a quick final break. picks up our coverage right now after a quick final break. at humana, we believe your

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