for your congressman. mark coken. for your senator tammy baldwin. and for the next president of the united states of america, kamala harris! [ cheers and applause ] and i know you've heard it about 15 times so far today but it's worth repeating, here in wisconsin early voting starts today. [ cheers and applause ] if you haven't voted yet i won't be offended if you just walk out right now. go vote! go do it. return the absentee ballot. it's fine. just remember to bring your photo i.d. if you're voting in person. if you need to register to vote, you can do it at your local clerk's office from now until november 1st. or when you vote on election day tuesday november 5th.

[ cheers and applause ] and if there's any confusion, if you need to know where your early voting site is or a dropbox location, then go to wisdems.org/vote. [ cheers ] they're cheering for wisdems.org/vote. don't wait. i voted yesterday. i did. i was down in chicago. i got my ballot, filled it in, sealed it, signed it. then i walked, which i don't always get a chance to do. and secret service got nervous. but i said no, let's walk. to a mailbox. and my younger staff was like what's that blue thing? and i said that's a mailbox. and you put stuff in it and then it goes to the place you're sending it.

they weren't familiar with mailboxes. once you voted, then you have to help your friends and family make a plan to vote too. because together we've got a chance to choose a new generation of leadership in this country and start building a better, stronger, fairer, more hopeful america. now, we know this election's going to be tight. it's going to be tight here in wisconsin. it's going to be tight all across the country. and it's going to be tight because a lot of americans are still struggling. you know, as a country we've been through a lot over the last few years. we forget sometimes. a historic pandemic wreaked havoc on communities, on families, on businesses. and then disruptions from the pandemic caused price hikes. they put a strain on family

budgets. and people started feeling like no matter how hard they work they were just treading water. so i understand why folks are looking to shake things up. i get it. what i cannot understand is why anybody would think that donald trump will shake things up in a way that's good for you. that i do not understand. [ cheers and applause ] because there is absolutely no evidence that this man thinks about anybody but himself. i've said it before. donald trump is a 78-year-old billionaire who hasn't stopped whining about his problems since he came down that golden escalator nine years ago. and he's complaining 2:00, 3:00 in the morning he's texting. what's he doing? when he's not complaining he's trying to sell you stuff.

have you noticed that? who does that? you're running for president and you're hawking merchandise. gold sneakers. $100,000 watch. supposed to be a swiss watch, he says. the best watch. why are you selling a watch? what are you doing? my favorite is the trump bible. true story. true story. it's embossed with his name right on it. donald trump edition. right next to matthew and luke. donald. and i'll give you one guess where those bibles are made. he's mr. tough guy on china, except when it comes to making a few bucks. you cannot make this stuff up. you really can't.

if some of this stuff happened on "saturday night live" you'd be like all right, that's going too far. that didn't really happen. but it did! and he's doing it because what he cares about is his ego and his money and his status. he's not thinking about you. he sees power, he sees you as a means to his ends. he wants the middle class to pay the price for another huge tax cut that would mostly help him and his country club buddies. he doesn't care if he costs more women their preproductive freedoms because apparently it doesn't affect his life. most of all, donald trump wants us to think that this country is hopelessly divided between us and them. now, for him us means the, quote, real americans who support him. anybody who doesn't, they're

them. and he employs this strategy, like politicians have for millennia, because having people divided and angry boosts his chances of being elected. that's his -- that's his focus, is this going to help me, not is it going to help you. and along with those intentions there's also, as tim talked about, there are questions about his competence. i mean, he's out there giving two-hour speeches. it's like fidel castro, just keeps on talking. it's just word salads. the other day he had a town hall meeting. i've been -- i've done my share of town hall meetings. my experience is the goal of the town hall meeting is you meet with your constituents, with

citizens, with voters, you answer their questions. he decided, no, i'm not going to answer questions anymore, let's just play music for half an hour. so he's standing there and he's swaying to "ave maria" and "ymca." and you know, the governor from south dakota, she's standing there with this weird look on her face like she doesn't really know what's going on. it's like a hostage video. can you imagine if tim did that or kamala did that or i did that? now, our playlist would be better. [ cheers and applause ] but -- it would be. but you would say to yourself, this is odd behavior. he called himself the father of

ivf. i have no idea what that means. you don't either. he said january 6th was a day of love. [ boos ] you're going to hear this from me. do not boo. vote! they can't hear you boo. they can hear your vote. that's the way to send a message. [ cheers and applause ] so look, my point is you'd be worried about grandpa was acting like this. you'd call up your brother. you'd call up your cousins. you'd say, have you noticed? but this is coming from somebody who wants unchecked power.

so wisconsin, we do not need to see what an older, loonier donald trump looks like with no guardrails. america's ready to turn the page. we are ready for a better story, wisconsin. we are ready for a president kamala harris! [ cheers and applause ] and the good news is kamala harris is ready for the job. this is a leader who has spent her life fighting on behalf of people who need a voice and need a champion. somebody who was raised in a middle-class family, who actually worked at mcdonald's when she was in college to pay her expenses, didn't just pretend like you worked at mcdonald's. when it was closed.

someone who believes in the values that built this country and who is as prepared for the job as any nominee for president has ever been. [ applause ] so the point is, the point is kamala knows you. she knows your life. she knows what it's like to scrap and to strive and to work hard and to see her mom worry about the bills. so does tim. so if you elect them, they will be focused on your problems. [ applause ] they understand that too many folks here in wisconsin are struggling to paid the bills. and understand wages have been steadily growing.

unemployment has been dropped. has dropped. inflation is finally slowing. but the price of everything from housing to health care to groceries is still too high. and it hurts. so the question is not do you want to see better. the question is who's going to actually do something about this? so par for the course, donald trump's plan is to give another massive tax cut to billionaires and big corporations. and i've talked to some folks and they'll say, yeah, but i do remember the economy was pretty good when trump first came into office. and i said, yeah. because it was my economy. [ cheers and applause ]

i had spent -- i had spent eight years cleaning up the mess the republicans left me. i spent eight years getting the auto industry back on track. reopening factories. so when i handed over 75 straight months of job growth to donald trump, all he did was give a tax cut to people who didn't need it, drove up the deficit in the process. so don't have nostalgia for what his economy was. because that was mine. [ cheers and applause ] and now he wants to do it again. when it health care, when it comes to health care donald trump's got one answer and that

is to end the affordable care act. not because he's got a good reason for it but because it's obamacare. right? so a couple of weeks ago -- but the problem is, the problem he's got now is that it's popular because 50 million people have used it and are still using it. and so when he was asked about it, when his running mate was asked about it during their debate the guy's got the nerve, the chutzpah to say donald trump salvaged the affordable care act. come on, man. donald trump spent his entire presidency trying to tear it down, and he couldn't even do that right. and now eight years after elected, eight years later he's

asked about it during his debate with kamala and they say, well, you want to get rid of obamacare, what would you replace it with? he says, well, i've got concepts of a plan. i want you to think about this for a second. so let's say your boss gives you an assignment, says i need it by friday. friday rolls around. and your boss says, so did you finish that project i asked for? you say, well, i haven't actually started, but i do have a concept for a plan. or you could try it at home. honey, did you do the dishes? not yet. but i do have a concept of a plan for doing the dishes. [ cheers and applause ]

how's that going to go? if it wouldn't work for you, it shouldn't work for the president of the united states. [ cheers and applause ] but the good news is kamala harris and tim walz, they don't have concepts of a plan. they have an actual plan. to make your life better. tim just talked about it. they're going to bring down costs by going after corporations that unfairly jack up prices. they're going to make it more affordable to build a home and to buy a home. they're going to limit out-of-pocket health care costs. they're going to give a tax cut to 100 million middle-class and working-class americans. $6,000 tax credit. $6,000 tax credit. if you're having a child, that

first year of life -- and that helps, those of you who've had kids. that's expensive. six grand. you know, that helps with the car seat, crib, diapers. i remember diapers. i remember changing malia and sasha's diapers. do you think donald trump ever changed a diaper? it would be like, jeeves. jeeves, change that diaper. he'd have somebody else do it. so that's who kamala harris and tim walz are. they've got actual plans. that's what they stand for. not concepts of a plan. now, if you challenge trump or vance on these concepts, they'll fall back on one answer. blame the immigrants. he wants you to believe that if you let him round up whoever he wants and ship them out all your

problems will be solved. now, i want to talk about this. this is serious. we have a real issue at the borders. we're a nation of immigrants and we're a nation of laws. we've got to make sure the system works the way it's supposed to, in an orderly fashion. so there's work to be done there. but when i keep on hearing from these guys i have to -- i scratch my head. because they like to talk about kamala being vice president for four years. well, wasn't he president for four years? i know it's shocking. i know there's some ptsd going on and people are blocking it out. he was. so if this concept of a plan of rounding up and deporting millions of desperate people, many of them women and children, was the answer to everything, well, why is it that the number of undocumented immigrants was basically the same when he left office as when he took office?

and i'll tell you why. because he did not have a real plan. he had a concept of a plan and it was a mean and ugly concept. you know what would actually help bring order to the border and fix our immigration system? the bipartisan deal that kamala harris supported, even though it was written by one of the most conservative republicans in congress. [ cheers and applause ] and i want you to know, hear me out now, hear me out because there are a lot of people here in wisconsin and around the country who are actually concerned about this. i cannot emphasize this enough. democrats and republicans, conservative republicans came together with a concrete plan that would have put more enforcement at the border, more judges to process issues, all this stuff. donald trump lobbied actively and told republicans to vote against it because he figured it was better to have an issue that he could run on for his

presidential campaign. he was not interested in actually trying to solve the problem. [ boos ] do not boo. do not boo. vote! we do not need a president who will make problems worse just to make his politics better. we need a president who actually cares about solving problems and making your life better. and that's what kamala harris will do. [ cheers and applause ] that's what tim walz will do. and to help them do it they're going to need a senate full of public servants like tammy baldwin. [ cheers and applause ] tammy has spent her career fighting for things like good jobs and affordable health care and medication and personal freedom, and she knows how to make a difference. you know, we were just talking about the affordable care act.

well, as some of you know and some of you have used, one of the provisions in the affordable care act says that young people when they're just getting started can stay on their parents' health care plan until they're 26. [ cheers and applause ] tammy baldwin wrote that part of the bill. because she knew how important it was to wisconsin families. that's the kind of person we need in washington. the kind of person who's going to help kamala and tim get stuff done and who share our values and want to move the country forward and not backward. >> i miss you! >> i miss you too. before i came. now, one of these values is freedom. let's talk about that for a second. i do not think we have ever

had -- i don't think we've ever had an election where candidates understand the concept, the idea and the reality of freedom so differently. because for donald trump and his cronies freedom basically means getting away with stuff. it means, well, you know, if i want to bust a union i can get away with that. [ boos ] do not boo. vote! but his attitude is, well, that's freedom. i want to pollute this close by river because it will save me some bucks, i won't have to -- i can go ahead and do that. so to them freedom is letting powerful people do whatever the heck they want with no consequences. it's like you said, in the middle of a pandemic when people were dying, hospitals were overrun, donald trump actually uttered the words "i do not take any responsibility at all." i am not sure any american

president has ever said those words before. but that's his idea of freedom. i do what i want and i'm not held accountable and i'm not responsible for anything. we have a broader idea of freedom. we believe that true freedom gives each of us the right to make decisions about our own life and it requires us to recognize that other people have the freedom to make different choices. and that's true even on the most contentious issues. i have always said there are good people of conscience on both sides of the abortion divide. i respect those whose faith tell them that this isn't something they support. but if we believe in freedom, then we should at least agree that such a deeply personal decision should be made by the woman whose body is involved and not by politicians. [ cheers and applause ] and most americans believe that

as well. most americans. most americans believe that as well, which is why it's been fascinating watching donald trump just tie himself into a pretzel on this issue. when he ran for president the first time, he said he'd support punishing women who got abortions. then a few weeks ago he tells women don't worry, i'll be your protector. you heard tim talk about how donald trump actually protected you. roe vs. wade overturned. trump abortion bans in 20 states. he's out -- they're saying everybody wanted it this way. no, they did not. but donald trump may be confused about this. you can't be. you need to be clear about what's at stake here. tammy baldwin actually introduced a bill that would restore the reproductive freedom to women they had for nearly 50 years. if congress passes that bill, kamala harris will sign it into

law. [ cheers and applause ] now, it's an example of how as frustrating as politics can be sometimes, and i know it can be frustrating. look, i do not watch cable news. i really don't. there are times where i just -- i don't understand how we got so toxic and just so divided and so bitter. i get why sometimes people just don't want to pay attention to it. and we all have friends like that. we have family members who are like, ah, it's all a circus out there. i get that. but elections really do matter. who you vote for matters. not because it's going to change every problem we've got. no president, no vice president,

no senator, no governor is going to solve every problem. we're not going to get -- we're not going to eliminate poverty overnight. we're not going to change, you know, race relations right away. we're born into history, and change takes time. and so sometimes i think we expect so much and then we're disappointed when everything's not immediately solved. and we start thinking politics doesn't matter. but the thing is what politics can do, what elections can do, they can make your life a little better. your neighbor's life a little better. or they can make it a little worse. and that little bit of better or little bit of worse, that adds up. and sometimes i have to talk to people who don't think there's going to be a difference whether kamala harris or donald trump wins. and they're not bad people. they just don't think politics matters to their lives.

and i have to remind them, you know, the affordable care act, it didn't eliminate all problems with health care. but there are 50 million people who got health care that didn't have it before. [ cheers and applause ] there are -- there are more than 50 million people who had pre-existing conditions and it used to be they couldn't get coverage. if you had a sick kid with a chronic illness, you're a parent, you might not be able to get insurance for your child before the affordable care act. and now you had to make a choice, are you going to sell your house in order to get that child the care they need? imagine that. you don't have to imagine it. that's what was going on. that's not true now because of elections. because of politics. it made a difference to them.

some people in this auditorium saw a concrete benefit in their lives as a consequence of elections. i'll give you one more example. [ applause ] and i know -- look, i know i'm going a little long here but i want to -- i want to really button this down. i'll give you another example. when i was president, last couple years in office, i took an interest in what scientists were saying that with globalization and travel and growing populations at some point we were going to see a serious pandemic. this is back in '14, '15, '16. so i said to my team, we need to get a plan together, just like we had one for natural disasters. you have to practice. you have to have a sense of how

are you going to respond if there's a flood or hurricane, an earthquake. and i said we need to do the same thing with a pandemic. so we put together a playbook. and we consulted with all the experts and then we had every agency talk about all right, how are we going to work with the public health agencies in the states, how are we going to deal with the schools, do we keep them open, how long, what are we going to do in terms of developing vaccines. had a whole playbook. put it all together. big thing. then we did tabletop exercises with all the agencies, let's practice, how we're going to deal with this. so when donald trump comes into office, we gave him that playbook. and apparently it got dropped into a trash bin. and hold on a second. so three years later a pandemic hits. now, i want to be fair on this. understand what i'm saying. no matter who was president, if i had been president, if hillary clinton had been president, joe biden, kamala harris, doesn't

matter. this was going to be a problem. people were going to get sick. people were going to die. businesses were going to shut down for a while. travel was going to be restricted. it was something we hadn't seen since 1918. right? so it was going to be a challenge. but if you look at a country like canada, their per capita death rate was 60% lower than the united states. now, i want you to do the math. let's say we lost more than a million people from covid in the united states. 60% difference, that's 600,000 people. people's grandparents. people's parents. cousins, brothers, friends, co-workers. most of you know somebody whose

lives was touched. 60%. might be alive if we had a capable, competent government that was paying attention. so if somebody tells you it does not make a difference whether you elect someone who's competent, someone who cares about you, someone who listens to experts and listens to ordinary people and knows what their lives are like and what they're going through, it makes a difference. it's going to make a difference to them. it's going to make a difference to you. and if that's not enough you've got to remind them this election's about more than just policies. it's about values and it's about character. some of you know when i was growing up i didn't have a father in the house. my parents divorced when i was 2. didn't really know my father. i did have people around me. i had a stepfather for a while.

i had grandparents, teachers, coaches. most of all my mom. who tried to teach me the difference between right and wrong. who showed me what it meant to be honest and to work hard and to be responsible and to treat people the way i wanted to be treated. and i'll be honest with you, sometimes like most young people, like teenagers, i didn't always live up to those values. i made mistakes. i tried to learn from them. but i internalized those values. right? and i tried to live up to them. most of you grew up the same way. and one of the disturbing things about this election, about trump's rise in politics, is how we seem to have set aside the values that we were taught. down in chicago i saw an old

friend of mine, jeff tweedy. he's a -- [ applause ] some of you guys know wilco. his dad worked in rail cars i think it is. union guy. and i think his name was -- he says his name was robert e. lee tweedy. and so jeff was describing how he had to persuade his dad to vote for me that first time. but over time i guess he became a supporter. but his dad said something interesting he told me when trump came into office. he said, i never thought i'd see my fellow workers suck up to the boss's son like that. which was interesting. but it had to do with values.

that's what he was talking about. character. what do you stand for? who are you? what do you believe in? so a few weeks ago we had one of the deadliest hurricanes in american history, and biden and harris, they're down there in north carolina, they're meeting with local officials, they're comforting families. and in the midst of that donald trump and his running mate are making up stories about how the biden administration is withholding aid and giving it to undocumented workers and not giving it to republican areas. just making stuff up. and even the maga republicans down in those areas on the ground said it was a bald-faced lie. it is shameful. when did something like that become okay? no matter where you stand on the issues. how could you go along with something like that? these are people at their most

vulnerable. they're in desperate situations. you're going to make stuff up and suddenly you have fema workers being threatened? people not applying for aid because they got told by a former president who's running for president that fema's not doing the right thing? if your co-workers acted like that, they wouldn't be your co-workers for very long. if you had a family member who acted like that, you might still love them but you wouldn't put them in charge of nothing. and yet -- [ applause ] hold up. hold up. and yet when donald trump lies or cheats or bullies somebody or shows utter disregard for our constitution, when he calls service members who died in battle losers, when he calls our fellow citizens vermin, people make excuses for him.

eh, he's making a joke, he doesn't mean it, it's okay. the attitude is it's okay as long as their side wins. and i noticed this especially with some men who think trump's behavior is somehow a sign of strength. you never apologize for anything. you're not accountable for anything. i'm here to tell you that's not what real strength is. never has been. real strength's about working hard. real strength's about taking responsibility for your actions. real strength's about telling the truth even when it's inconvenient! real strength is about helping people who need it and standing up for those who can't stand up for themselves! that's what we should want for our daughters and our sons! that's what i want in the president of the united states!

[ cheers and applause ] and the good news is, the good news is, wisconsin, that you have candidates to vote for in this election, who have demonstrated that kind of character, who have demonstrated that kind of strength, who will set a good example, who will do the right thing. they won't be perfect. they will not solve all your problems. there will still be issues out there that we have to address. but they will leave this country better than they found it. that's the choice in this election! [ cheers and applause ] it is not just policies that are on the ballot. it is who we are and what we stand for. so whether this election is making you feel excited or scared or hopeful or frustrated

or anything in between, do not sit back and hope for the best. do not think this is a distraction or a joke. get off your couch and do what? put down your phones and do what? vote for kamala harris as the next president of the united states. vote for tim walz as the next vice president of the united states. vote for tammy baldwin and this whole incredible wisconsin democratic ticket. get your family and friends and neighbors and co-workers to do the same. if enough voices are heard, we'll leave no doubt about the outcome of this election. we will leave no doubt about who we are. we'll send a message about what america stands for. and together we will keep building a country that is more fair and more just and more equal and more free. that is our job. that's our responsibility. let's go do it.

come on. [ cheers and applause ] ♪♪ >> as only he can do, president barack obama bringing down the house in wisconsin. it is a newish speech there. that riff in the end is designed to appeal to people who say nothing in it for me. president obama there leaving it all on the field, as they say, in madison, wisconsin alongside vice presidential candidate tim walz. joining our coverage former republican congressman, msnbc political analyst david jolly. former senator, host of msnbc's "how to win 2024" podcast claire mccaskill. and importantly the chair of the north carolina democratic party anderson clayton. anderson, you've been watching with us because we were going to start with a focus on north carolina. trump's trip yesterday where he snarled traffic and refused to condemn threats of violence

against fema workers, as is often the case president obama sort of scooped us and mentioned it here in this closing message to voters about what kind of person essentially goes and spreads disinformation while others are trying to help. first your reaction to president obama. >> well, he just gave me the energy that i needed to make sure that my feet are on the ground for the next 14 days knocking doors and doing everything we can to make sure that kamala harris and tim walz get elected. but we also know that he made a great point about how dangerous donald trump's agenda is when you're spreading disinformation, particularly in impacted communities in western north carolina right now. we've even seen his former national security adviser, folks like olivia troye here in north carolina even come out and say she's never seen someone like donald trump politicize natural disaster relief as much as she did during his administration. and so we know what's at stake this year, especially in places like western north carolina that

have just been ravaged by hurricane helene. >> anderson, is president obama heading to your state to deliver that speech to voters there? >> absolutely. he's going to be here on thursday, october the 25th. and we are more excited than ever to be able to have him in charlotte, where we know that we've got to make sure that we're turning out voters, especially in east and west charlotte right now that need to see someone like him come back and talk about the energy that's there in the state this year and that's behind kamala harris at the top of the ticket. >> one thing that i know from working on campaigns is that you cannot fathom what it's like to live in a battleground state unless you've lived in a battleground state, unless you see the ads everywhere you go, unless you have your basic routines upended by security-laden large-scale events and trips from the candidates. that is typically sort of hemmed in if there's a natural disaster. and i saw a lot of social media

posts and local coverage that there was a sense that this community in the part of the state trying to get back on its feet was very much inconvenienced at best by donald trump's traffic blockades yesterday. do you have any sense of that or have you heard that? >> well, we know right now that folks in western north carolina are still focusing on how they're rebuilding their lives. and so the fact that donald trump came and politicized a place that is still ongoing search and rescue, there are still people that are missing or haven't been accounted for in western north carolina, and simply the fact that even getting out to vote this year is not honestly top priority for many people out there who just lost everything, having someone like him in their own back yard talking about and trying to politicize that issue hasn't been helpful. and so we know people like state representative lindsay prather, people like representative caleb brudow, good democrats in places like asheville have been desperately trying to do outreach to communities there,

making sure people have what they need. even after the two weeks from this last recovery period that we've been in folks are still going to be over the next two years dealing with the havoc of what's happened in western north carolina and the democratic party is going to be here with them through it. >> is there anything you could tell folks outside of north carolina about how you're feeling about any of the tea leaves you're able to read at this point, early voting or any of the local polls which sometimes tend to be more reliable than the national ones? >> well, you know, what we're seeing is north carolina is going to be a close state and it's just like every other state in the country right now for the battlegrounds that we're making sure we're getting out and we're knocking every single door possible. so if you're in north carolina please make sure you get out with us this weekend and talk to your friends and your neighbors about voting up and down the ballot. we have the most competitive council of state races in north carolina this year with people like moe green running against michelle morrow who's our superintendent candidate this year for the republican party that brought her kids to the january 6th insurrection.

we have extreme republicans running up and down, not just donald trump and mark robinson in our state. pp it's important we're get ougt and making sure people know that. but we feel confident right now we're going to be able to do what we need to do to deliver this state on november the 5th. >> anderson clayton, thank you very much for watching with us and taking time to talk to us. i know these are busy days. >> thank you. >> claire mccaskill, president barack obama has sort of fine-tuned his closing message, designed to really speak to people who aren't necessarily choosing between harris and trump but thinking of sitting it out. and that was a remarkable invitation to care. >> yeah. and you know, i think one of the things he did so well today and he usually does, by the way, is he asked everybody to look in

the mirror and look at this election as a reflection of who we are as a country. who do we want to be? and him using the example of making stuff up after a natural disaster in a way that harms people and hurts people, the lying, the self-promotion, the grifting, he builds those themes and then he just lays it out there. what are our values? it is about more than policy. although he did a great job of explaining how changing policy based on who you vote for can help your life, obamacare is a great example. he uses it very well. but really his message was it's time to do a gut check and tell the world and tell each other are we really going to promote a guy who embodies all the values

we tell our children they cannot be? they can't be liars. they can't be cheaters. they can't not care about their fellow man. they can't promote themselves at the expense of others. that's really what he was doing in a way that didn't feel like he was patronizing. >> this was also a stellar performance from governor tim walz, who's been under the national klieg lights of national politics for about four minutes. he turned a new phrase, i'm sure it will stick. i think he called elon musk advancing dipshit. but president obama with this jeeves jab at donald trump, you think this guy can change a flat tire? no, he calls jeeves, the butler. this was again, using the kind of humor that 100% of the time gets under the skin of men like donald trump. david jolly. >> yeah, that's exactly right.

i'll build on what claire said because i picked up on exactly the same thing. president obama made this about who we are as a country, who we are as a people. but to build on that i would draw a light on this, which is he put all of the focus, really 2/3 of his remarks were about donald trump himself. and whether it was the man's never changed a tire or changed a diaper, he's called his butler jeeves to do it or he's a grifter trying to sell you watches or bibles made in china or he's a liar about fema or he's a failed leader or he tries to manipulate people in natural disasters or manipulate people about messaging around their own health care, president obama really focused on donald trump. and yes, sure, you sometimes do that with surrogates when you're a presidential candidate. but barack obama's not just any surrogate. i mean, he has the bully pulpit in a way very few people in the country or the world have. and i think what's fascinating about this, we may have talked about this last week, the three

of us, is for a closing message sure, there's policy. and he touched on the policy. but i think voters know that this race two weeks from now is about donald trump and if we return donald trump to the white house hawhat does that mean about who we are as a country? that's a powerful message for those that are still undecided. >> i need you guys to stick around. we're juggling some breaking news and we'd love to have you join us for it. we're going to switch gears briefly after the break to a dark new frontier in misinformation and disinformation. can you recognize a deepfake from the real thing? actor ed helms will join us for that conversation next. and as we mentioned, in the next hour a bombshell, brand new piece of reporting in "the atlantic" about donald trump's outright contempt for veterans and his naked racism, especially for those who have lost their lives. the ex-president supposedly pushing back on an offer to pay for the funeral of a soldier murdered at fort hood and saying this, quote, i need the kind of

generals that hitler had, end quote. all that and more. don't go anywhere. the promise of america is freedom, equality, but right now, those pillars of our democracy are fragile and our rights are under attack. reproductive rights, voting rights, the right to make your own choices and to have your voice heard. we must act now to restore and protect

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member card magazine and more to show you're part of a movement to protect the rights of all people. for over 100 years, the aclu has fought for everyone to have a voice and equal justice. and we will never stop because we the people, means all of us. so please call or go online to my aclu.org to become a guardian of liberty today. when my doctor gave me breztri for my copd, things changed for me. breztri gave me better breathing, symptom improvement, and reduced flare-ups. breztri won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. it is not for asthma. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. don't take breztri more than prescribed. breztri may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating,

vision changes, or eye pain occur. ask your doctor about breztri. disinformation we all know by now is one of the biggest threats to our democracy. a brand new star-studded psa highlights the danger to this election season. and some of the famous faces aren't what they seem. consider yourself warned. >> artificial intelligence has

gotten so advanced. >> you probably can't tell that some of us. >> aren't real. >> i'm definitely real. >> and that's a problem. >> because this election, bad actors are going to use ai to trick you -- >> into not voting. >> not voting. >> luckily, we already know what they're going to do. >> they'll use fake phone calls. >> videos. or messages to try to change when, how, or where you vote. >> for example, a fake message saying voting has been extended. >> or your polling location has closed or changed due to an emergency. >> or you need new documentation to vote. >> these are all scams designed to trick you into not voting. >> don't fall for it. >> always double-check your state's official website. >> or go to represent.us/votesafe. >> voting is your right. >> don't let anyone take it from you. >> don't let anyone take it --

ta-ta- take it -- >> i love you, amy. i'm so sorry. i'm not even american. >> so sorry. >> i'm really here, actually. well, yeah. here. >> wow. joining us now, the two producers of that ad. former chief of staff of the department of homeland security miles taylor is back. and actor and producer ed helms is here. they're advisers to the group represent us, a non-partisan anti-corruption organization that aired this campaign. ed, you've also been on the campaign trail, so i apologize, but you know what the campaign rally schedule looks like. it's loose to say the best. tell me about -- >> oh, yeah. >> i know you've been campaigning in nevada. we'd love to get an update on nevada from you before we lose you. but tell me about this message and this psa. >> well, look, there's nothing more important to our democracy

than counting every vote and making sure everyone who wants to vote has access to their polling locations or voting processes, whatever they are. and unfortunately there are a lot of people that have a vested interest in making that harder for people. and we are seeing misinformation, disinformation of all different kinds that are just trying to throw up hurdles or confusion around where, when and how people should vote. and one of the most sort of striking new versions of that is these deepfake videos and/or voice, robocalls that we're hearing. and so what i think this ad is hopefully trying to do is just kind of raise a bit of awareness so that when you hear information that challenges your plan to vote, whether it's where, when, or how you're going to vote, you're just a little skeptical and you're going to

double-check it. and that's why represent.us/votesafe is a very reliable place to go online and check -- it's just a compendium of links to your official state election websites. always just double-check. >> i know you've been on the campaign trail in nevada. and i think for a lot of voters there's something so affirming about seeing people in person making the case. tell us what you saw and heard from voters there. >> it's a close race. that's what it all comes down to. and you know, i do have very strong feelings about who i want to win this election. but i do want to make a very important distinction, that my work with represent us, which is a non-partisan organization, is about making sure everyone has

access to all of the voting information that they need. and that is a completely -- that's for all of us. that's for everyone in america, everyone under the sun. i also am doing some surrogate stuff on the side. but this is an important message to get out there for everybody. >> and i mean miles, one goes hand in hand with the other. for people to have their right to make their choice, they have to make sure they're not fed a line of disinformation from a domestic or foreign source that deprives them of that right to vote. tell me about this effort. >> well, and nicolle, i'll say we're not just worried about domestic actors doing that, as you know. we're really worried about foreign adversaries who interfered in the 2016 election coming back with these ultra supercharged ai-powered deepfakes. and i've got to give ed a lot of credit for flagging this many months ago and trying to corral influencers out in hollywood and elsewhere to get involved in the

conversation and to raise public awareness because as unsatisfying as it sounds, public education is one of the best ways we can combat this as really realistic deepfakes are out there trying to get people to not vote or suppress the vote or maybe confuse people about who actually won the election. they can express a healthy amount of skepticism and go verify their sources. but it's important to let people know this is the new spam. deepfakes are the new spam. the nigerian prince in your inbox telling you he's wiring you $10,000. we've got to get acclimated to it. but keep calm and vote on. >> the nigerian prince sounds so quaint, right? these are people that could look identical to who you think they are. miles, we need you to stick around for the breaking news. ed helms, we're big fans around here. thank you so much for taking some time to talk to us today. up next for us, that breaking story we've been telling you about. brand new reporting in "the atlantic" about donald trump

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man seeking to serve as our next commander in chief. according to atlantic reporter jeffrey goldberg whose body of reporting on this topic is rock solid, donald trump, quote, erupted when presented with the cost of a funeral for a 20-year-old army private, vanessa guillen. she was murdered at fort hood. guillen is the daughter of mexican immigrants. she grew up in houston, texas.

jeffrey goldberg reports on what happened at an oval office meeting in december of 2020. quote, at a certain point according to two people present at the meeting donald trump asked, quote, did they bill us for the funeral? what did it cost? according to attendees and to contemporaneous notes of the meeting taken by a participant, an aide answered, yes, we received a bill. the funeral costs $60,000. trump became angry. quote, it doesn't cost 60,000 bucks to bury a fucking mexican. he turned to his chief of staff mark meadows and issued an order, quote, don't pay it. later that day he was still agitated. can you believe it, he said. according to a witness, fucking people trying to rip me off. that's donald trump using the f word to describe a funeral that he had offered to pay for for a member of the united states military. with 14 days to go, we apologize for the profanity but we want to quote donald trump accurately

and be faithful to this extraordinary body of reporting. a trump spokesperson denied that the ex-president made the comments and said, quote, this is an outrageous lie from "the atlantic" two weeks before the election. but as jeffrey goldberg notes, quote, the personal qualities displayed by donald trump in his reaction to the cost of the guillen funeral, contempt, rage, parsimony, racism hardly surprised his inner circle. while this happened almost four years ago, its significance cannot be overstated considering the tight race that the country is facing for president. more from goldberg's reporting, quote, two weeks from an election that could see donald trump return to the white house, i'm most interested in his evident desire to wield military power and power over the military in the manner of hitler and other dictators. nbc news has not independently verified the "atlantic" reporting. it's where we begin the hour with some of our favorite experts and friends. ranking member of the house

intelligence committee congressman jim himes of connecticut is here. former chief of staff of the department of homeland security. miles taylor is back. importantly, general john kelly is quoted in a recent conversation from this week. miles taylor worked for general kelly. david jolly and claire mccaskill are still with us. congressman himes, your reaction. >> well, i'm not one bit surprised by this. we know that donald trump doesn't understand the concept of service in the military, right? his famous comment about john mccain, "i like the ones that weren't captured." you know, i was actually in france when he refused to go to the ceremony honoring the dead of d-day because it was raining. i mean, this is not surprising. it's also not surprising, i sort of had to chuckle, you wonder about the value of a penn degree. famously several of hitler's generals tried to kill him and were executed. general van malky and general van staufenberg. and lastly we might chuckle at that but we know what this

means. we heard it when he talks to comey in trump tower. we sort of forgot about that. and whatever else you think of jim comey the new president was saying to jim comey no, no, it's not loyalty to the constitution, i need your absolute loyalty. that's something that doesn't work in a society that is all about the rule of law. >> let me read the section about hitler that you allude to, congressman. quote, former generals who have worked for donald trump say that the sole military virtue he prizes is obedience. as his presidency drew to a close and in the years since he has become more and more interested in the advantages of dictatorship and the absolute control over the military that he believes it would deliver. quote, i need the kind of generals that hitler had, trump said in a private conversation in the white house, according to two people who heard him say that. people who were totally loyal to him. that follow orders. when you hear trump's campaign rhetoric, what orders do you think he has in mind?

>> well, it's worth remembering that military officers also take an oath to the constitution. and i do believe that the vast majority of them understand that their oath is to the constitution of the united states, not to be obedient to anyone. and by the way, if you want to go back to world war ii metaphors, any military officers who are wavering might read up on the story of the nuremberg trials in which i was just following orders was the kind of defense that led to the gallows. but look, we know what motivates trump. it's nothing -- it's absolutely nothing but self-aggrandizement. so in any given moment whatever trump thinks is in that moment the advantageous thing, he will order flag officers to do. and again, flag officers would be well reminded, and i don't think they need this reminder, that their oath is to the constitution of the united states and to take care that the laws be faithfully executed, not to any one individual. >> let me dig back into this reporting with you, miles

taylor. this is a deeply reported story about the tragic murder of a member of the military and donald trump's offer to pay for the funeral. let me pick up the reporting where they are reporting out the process of the funeral bill showing up at the white house. quote, according to a person close to trump at the time, the president was agitated by mccarthy, the secretary of the army, ryan mccarthy's comments. he blamed leadership failures at fort hood. trump was agitated by that. he raised questions about the severity of the punishments dispensed to senior officers and non-commissioned officers. in an oval office meeting on december 4th, 2020 officials gathered to discuss a separate national security issue. toward the end of the discussion trump asked for an update on the mccarthy investigation. christopher miller, the acting secretary of defense, trump had fired his predecessor mark esper three weeks earlier, writing in a tweet "mark esper has been

terminated," was in attendance along with mireles chief of staff kash patel. at a certain point according to two people present at the meeting trump asked, quote, did they bill us for the funeral? what did it cost? according to attendees and to contemporaneous notes of the meeting taken by a participant, an aide answered yes, we received a bill. the funeral cost $60,000. trump became angry. it doesn't cost 60,000 bucks to bury a bleeping mexican. he turned to his chief of staff mark meadows and issued an order. quote, don't pay it. later that day he was still agitated. quote, can you believe it, he said, according to a witness. f-ing people trying to rip me off, end quote. miles, we've talked a lot for four years now about where the generals are. it appears between the woodward book and jeffrey goldberg's new piece of reporting, they're right in front of us. somehow some of these stories about his disdain for the military are reaching the public

through journalism. >> well, and i would say, nicolle, there are some words he said a few times there that we should focus on. contemporaneous notes. now, i don't know who jeffrey goldberg's sources were. but the reason i don't doubt this reporting is i was one of those people taking contemporaneous notes in those meetings. and why? because generals like jim mat skpis john kelly and mark milley went into these meetings, they told their aides like me you need to document conversations with the president. why? not because they were looking to defy lawful orders but because when you went into that oval office you were worried you were going to get illegal orders or you were going to witness corruption, and it was happening so frequently that people were sitting in these meetings and writing word for word what the president was saying to make sure they got it right after the fact. that seems to be the case here. and the things that were said are not extraordinary. that's exactly what a meeting

with donald trump sounds like, especially when it comes to members of the military. and i hate to say it, nicolle, but his disposition toward members of the military was that they were toy soldiers. and if they didn't comply with his orders he didn't want them there. that's why he fired or pushed aside so many defense and national security officials during his tenure, is that they weren't doing what he wanted to do when it came to nuclear conflicts or illegal orders to shoot people in the legs at the border or to deem migrants as unlawful enemy combatants, as terrorists or again, nicolle, when i was there he wanted to invoke the insurrection act to conduct activities that our lawyers thought would be illegal at the border. that's the type of thing that will test the oaths of our service members if donald trump wins a second term. >> miles, you worked for general john kelly. he is quoted in jeffrey goldberg's new piece. let me read from that section. quote, in their book can the the divider: donald trump in the white house" peter baker and susan glasser report that trump asked john kelly his chief of

staff at the time, quote, why can't you be like the german generals. trump at various points had grown frustrated with military officials he deemed disloyal and disobedient. throughout the course of his presidency trump referred to flag officers as, quote, my generals. according to baker and glasser kelly explained to trump that german generals tried to kill hitler three times and almost pulled it off. this correction did not move trump to reconsider his view. no, no, no, they were totally loyal to him, trump responded. quote, this week i asked john kelly about their exchange. he told me that when trump raised the subject of german generals kelly responded by asking, do you mean bismarck's generals? he went on. i mean, i knew he didn't know who bismarck was or about the franco-prussian war. i said, do you mean the kaiser's generals? surely you can't mean hitler's generals. and he said yeah, yeah, hitler's generals. i explained to him that rommel had to commit suicide after

taking part in a plot against hitler. kelly told me trump was not acquainted with rommel. it is the collision of ignorance, the corruption of a soul to disdain men and women who give to something larger of themselves, inability to grasp the concept even if you haven't served in the military. most people who haven't served revere those who have. say more about general kelly's education about who donald trump is. >> well, first i'll say he's the most honorable person that i've ever worked for. john kelly has more integrity in his pinkie finger than donald trump has in his whole body or has demonstrated in his entire career. and kelly was very, very clear-eyed about who donald trump was. but he wasn't going to leave the administration after his first exposure to the man. he wanted to try to see if there

was a way to keep that ship stable. now, of course we all know how that ended as trump in the end gets rid of anyone who tries to contain his worst impulses. but i think there was extraordinary alarm from the generals in what they saw from the president and not just the immediacy of his impulsive behavior but what that behavior looked like in the context of history. you don't have to listen to hyperbole about people saying donald trump looks like the dictators of the past. look at his own language. look at the language of his running mate. his running mate that called him america's hitler. it's donald trump himself who has repeatedly lauded the worst dictator in the 20th century and compared his desires to that man. take him at his word. that would be my exhortation to the american people as they go out to vote. >> claire mccaskill, i'll read more from this brand flu piece

of reporting in "the atlantic." quote, this wasn't the only time kelly felt compelled to instruct trump on military history. in 2018 trump asked kelly to explain who the good guys were in world war i. kelly responded by explaining a simple rule. presidents should as a matter of politics and policy remember that the good guys in any given conflict are the countries allied with the united states. despite trump's lack of historical knowledge he had been on record as saying that he knew more than his generals did about warfare. he told "60 minutes" in 2018 that he knew more about nato than james mattis, his secretary of defense at the time, a retired four-star marine general who had served as a nato official. trump also said on a separate occasion that it was he, not mattis, who had captured the islamic state. your reaction, claire, to this reporting. >> well, first let me also say a word about john kelly. i worked with john kelly as the

ranking member of the homeland security committee when he was the secretary of homeland security. i knew him before that as a member of the armed services committee. as i knew jim mattis. these people don't lie. and they don't respect people who do. and i believe john kelly went to work for donald trump because he thought he was doing a service for his country. he thought he would protect the country from trump's worst instincts. he left when he realized he couldn't, especially when he grasped how much disdain donald trump had for the members of the military who served. and remember, john kelly's son was killed in combat. so when john kelly says this happened, i guarantee you it happened. absolutely. and the other thing to remember about this is what they're doing in this atlantic piece is with thorough reporting they're pulling the thread from the very

beginning when he shocked us all by looking down his nose at john mccain for being a prisoner of war all the way through his presidency when he would not embrace those who had been wounded in war, would not risk his hairdo for visiting those who had sacrificed, made the ultimate sacrifice for the world's freedom. so this is a consistency that donald trump has had. kash patel and those idiots can lie all they want to about what he said. the other important thing to remember about this story, nicolle, is when he promised a family he would take care of their funeral expenses, that was before the election. that was in april of 2020. when he said i'm not going to pay to bury the f-ing mexican, that was after he had lost in december. so people need to remember, he'll say anything before an

election but his real true character comes out after the election. >> and one thing he's talking about, claire, is how he will use the military to deal with the enemies within. jeffrey goldberg reminds us that some of those enemies are admiral william mcraven and general stanley mckrystle. let me read from that atlantic reporting. as president trump etch inces extreme sensitivity to criticism from retired flag officers. at one point he proposed calling back to active duty admiral william mcraven and stanley mcchrystal, who had become critical of trump, so that they could be court-martialed. esper, who was the defense secretary at the time, wrote in his memoir that he and milley talked trump out of the plan. asked about criticism from mcraven who oversaw the raid that killed osama bin laden trump responded by calling him a hillary clinton backer and an obama backer and said wouldn't it have been nice if we got osama bin laden a lot sooner

than that? trump with kelly, milley and esper sort of walking the knife's edge would have bross them back to active duty so that they could be court-martialed. that is his vision for how to treat members of the military who are in his telling not like hitler's generals, not loyal and obedient. >> yeah. and remember the people who are lying for him now about what happened here are the same people he is going to put back into power in the white house. there will be no bill barr. there will be no jim mattis. there will be no john kelly. there will be no don mcgahn. there will be no esper. there will be no one who is capable of saying to this man no. you can't do this. this is not loyalty to the constitution. this is not the rule of law. this is not how you use the

military. and he tried to do this in his first administration. he tried to put john kerry in jail. he tried to talk people into charging hillary clinton with a crime. he went to great lengths to try to charge john kerry with a crime for talking to a foreign government while he after being president is on speed dial with the world's enemies, with our enemies, putin and all of the bad guys he's talking to. and that's not legal in our system. you don't do that as a private citizen. you don't undercut the government. so all of this, if you put all these pieces together, it paints such a clear picture. and that's what obama was talking about today. do we have the strength as a nation to look at that picture and make the right decision? >> it is an extraordinary piece of reporting. as claire mccaskill said, it pulls the thread through a lot of disparate bodies of reporting for this group of very reluctant messengers, the men and women of the military have about zero

desire to be a part of american politics and it is only when someone that general milley describes as a fascist to the core or john kelly describes as the most damaged human being he's ever known, is on the menu in a very tight election that men and women like this speak out. we'd like to ask all of you to stick around. when we come back, we'll bring you more of this vital piece of reporting. the brand new reporting that donald trump while president said that he needs, quote, the kind of generals hitler had. our friend paul rykoff joins the conversation. also ahead-w deep, deep ties between the disgraced ex-president and project 2025, despite his denials these are his people and his plans. we have that new reporting coming up in the broadcast. and a brand new interview with vice president kamala harris with my colleague hallie jackson. we'll bring you some of that. "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break.

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we are back with congressman jim himes, miles, david, claire. joining our conversation, the host of the independent americans podcast, founder of iraq and afghanistan veterans of america, paul rykoff is here. paul, i know you are juggling family and life and work. thank you for joining us as this story broke. i want to read you a little bit more of what jeffrey goldberg of "the atlantic" is reporting. quote, trump's disdain for american military officers is motivated in part by their willingness to accept low salaries. once after a white house briefing given by the then

chairman of the joint chiefs of staff general joseph dunford trump said to aides, quote, that guy is smart. why did he join the military? on another occasion john kelly asked trump to guess dunford's annual salary. the president's answer, $5 million. dunford's actual salary was less than $200,000. your reaction to what we're learning in this new piece of reporting. >> we're learning more about the true character of the man who wants to be commander in chief again. i'm coming to you from a playground. i'm coaching my kids. and i can't help but imagine if these 5, 6, 7-year-olds heard the man who wanted to be president speak like that out loud. it's disgraceful. it's shameful. and it's consistent. i mean, he keeps revealing himself, and it's revealed by people with honor like general kelly. it's revealed on the record and off. and it's a consistent pattern of

someone who has no respect or regard for just about anything. even a murdered soldier. and vanessa guillen's a really important story. i mean, she was bludgeoned to death by a male soldier. her body was broken apart and hidden. this is a very important story about how women are treated in the military, about military sexual trauma. it's a murder case. it's not just a random story. this is a very high-profile and important story. and the symbolism of that story compounded by his reaction just underscores how ridiculously shameful he is. he's a disgusting human being. and i keep saying this to people. do you really want him to be the commander in chief? not just to lead our armed forces but to lead your sons and daughters. he's going to be in charge of hundreds of thousands of our sons and daughters if he's elected. and i hope people remember this story and stories like it when they go to the voting booth in two weeks. >> let's deal with the racism. i won't say it again. i have promised my executive producer i won't.

but he described her, this victim of a brutal murder, as an f-ing mexican. the racism is staggering when coupled with the disdain, the disgust and the disrespect for the men and women who would sacrifice for something bigger than themselves. >> and it's also consistent. i mean, this is the man who wants to lead the most diverse military on the planet. you know, we are proud of the diversity in our military. and he's going to have to, if elected again, be the commander in chief for our entire military including many mexican americans and many people of other backgrounds that he's offended over the course of his life and public time in office. so i think it really cuts to, again, national security. how can you effectively lead a military when you talk about people in it like this? i continue to say that he's more than a political story. he's a national security threat. this has our enemies celebrating. and if i'm putin i'm saying yeah, this is exactly the kind of guy i'd love to be sitting on the other id soo of the table.

he can't even get his own military together and respect his own people much less align them to defeat us in eastern europe. so i think it really cuts to that core group of independent americans especially, that kamala harris is trying to reach. and i think this is her most effective argument. you may not like me, but look at him. he is so much worse and he's a disgusting human being. and we have to think not only our enemies are watching, our children are watching. they're walking around right behind me. and i'm glad they can't hear you read that article and the quotes from it. >> paul rieckhoff, i'm sorry to interrupt the most important thing any of us have the privilege of doing, spending time with our kids. and i promise it's safe now, i won't say it again. but thank you very much for hopping on and joining us. really grateful to get to talk to you about it. >> thank you guys for covering it. >> david jolly, i will bleep out what is, advance warning, another incredibly profane section of jeffrey goldberg's new reporting in the atlantic

about donald trump's racism and disdain for the men and women of the united states military. quote, my reporting during trump's term in office led my to publish on this site in september 2020 an article about trump's attitudes toward john mccain and other veterans and his views about the ideal of national service itself. the story was based on interviews with multiple sources who had firsthand exposure to trump and his views. in that piece i detailed numerous instances of trump insulting soldiers, flag officers and veterans alike. i wrote extensively about trump's reaction to mccain's death in august 2018. the president told aides, quote, we're not going to support that loser's funeral. and he was infuriated when he saw flags at the white house lowered to half mast. what the f are we doing that for? the guy was an f-ing loser, he said angrily. only when general john kelly told trump that he would get killed in the press for showing such disrespect did the president relent. in the article i also reported that trump had disparaged

president george h.w. bush, a world war ii naval aviator, for getting shot down by the japanese. two witnesses told me that trump said, quote, i don't get it. getting shot down makes you a loser. bush ultimately evaded capture but eight other flyers were caught and executed by the japanese. your first reaction. >> well, i think everybody can opine on the moral fitness of someone who acts and says things like that. but i think it also trends toward the raw ignorance and immense vanity of a man zpp that's a toxic combination that makes for a very dangerous leader. what he will never understand is there's really no greater service as an american than to raise your hand and pledge to protect and defend the constitution. and whether you're a 17-year-old enlisted private or you go to one of the academies or you end up a general or our a p.o.w., when you raise your hand there's a commonality among all service

members. yes, you're pledging faithfulness to the country and to its defense. but you also know that you may be asked to give the full measure of devotion. you may be asked to give your entire life. and for some they actually do that. in politics it's very different. that commitment to public service does not compare with military, but a lot of politicians including congressman himes know that it is about public service, it is about holding the public trust, trying to do good for the public. that has never been the ethos of donald trump. and i think it reveals a couple of things. it kind of goes without -- it should go without saying, but a reference to hitler should never be spoken of. john kelly said don't do it. i think we also have to recognize as the congressman said donald trump is so historically inaccurate in his comment, right? hitler's generals tried to kill him. they put a bomb under a table. and so what is it that donald trump really considers the affinity with hitler? why is it that hitler is drawn to his imagery in that place?

and then bring a -- contemporaneously with now the comments about using his military to go after political opponents. this is a very dangerous question the american people are faced with on election day. and my fear is that the threats themselves have already taken a toll. we look at some of these threats as though he would never do that. republicans say he would never do that. some of us think yes, he would. but the threat itself has a silencing effect on public criticism. the threat to not honor our article 5 obligations has -- the threat itself has an impact on our allies when they have to face tough national security questions. donald trump is already eroding the presidency by his own actions. the question is are we going to give him license to do it even more two weeks from today? i certainly hope not. but it is a question, go back to obama's speech, that ultimately that answer will reflect who we are as a people. >> congressman jim himes, i want to deal with something i know you deal with and you try to do it across the aisle, and that is

truth and facts. and let me just share, again, because we've spent more than half an hour on this story, let me spend some time sharing the meticulousness i referenced at the top of the hour. jeffrey goldberg goes on to explain losers and suckers, which is such a political bruise for donald trump that he denies it repeatedly. let me read from that part of the report. the specific incident i reported in the 2020 article that gained the most attention also provided the story with its headline. trump, americans who died in war are losers and suckers. the story concerned a visit trump made to france in 2018 during which the president called americans buried in a world war i cemetery, quote, losers. he said in the presence of aides, quote, why should i go to that cemetery? it is filled with losers. at another moment during this trip he referred to more than 1,800 marines as suckers for

dying for their country. it goes on to explain why he had to go to two cemeteries. trump asks, quote, what the f. john kelly subsequently cancels the second visit and attends a ceremony there himself with general dunford and their wives. and then importantly jeffrey goldberg writes this. in the days after my original article was published both the associated press and notably fox news confirmed the story, causing trump to demand that fox news fire jennifer griffin, its experienced and well-regarded defense reporter. a statement issued by alyssa farah, a white house spokesperson, soon after publication read, quote, this report is false. president trump holds the military in the highest regard. of course alyssa farah is now a high-profile surrogate for vice president kamala harris. she explains in the article that she was lied to. but two important things there. one, the truth is the truth. and if it wasn't true it wouldn't have been confirmed by

fox news and the associated press. and the people who go to work for donald trump are asked to lie. they become liars as alyssa farah was in the first reporting of losers and suckers. >> yeah, look, this gets to one of the more ominous issues that i think is probably going to be illustrated in this now what, 15, 20-minute story that you've been breaking here. one of the ways in which donald trump has been enormously successful at advancing his project has been to call into question the very idea of an objective truth. remember, it's not important that people believe trump's lies. the man lies all day every day. and i think most people know that. what is important to donald trump and his people is that the whole concept of truth be fuzzy. so msnbc, as you're doing right now, is reporting some really awful things about donald trump and i'm just not sure-i really don't believe that. oh, and by the way, this is point two, donald trump and his people have been enormously successful at developing the notion that there is this thing

called the mainstream media that can never, ever be trusted. right? now, they don't necessarily want you to trust steve bannon's shoal but they don't want you to trust any outlet. now, look, most americans understand that msnbc has a little bit of a lean one way and fox has a lean another way. but what they want you to do is believe that there is no such thing as truth because if you believe that there is a truth you are not likely to support donald trump. and what's really scary about this, apart from what may happen in two weeks, is that his people were very good at creating this mee yaz ma of uncertainty and absent of truth around the covid vaccine. and there are estimates out there that something like 200,000 americans, by the way, that's four vietnam wars in terms of the deaths, that something like 200,000 americans are dead that don't need to be dead because they had suspicion of, didn't believe in the covid

vaccine. so this ability to convince the american people that there is no truth is very core to what he does and is lethal. absolutely lethal. >> wow. congressman jim himes, miles taylor, david jolly, and claire mccaskill, thank you so much. some of you for joining us at the last minute. some of you for staying longer than you planned to. really grateful. when we come back, we've got a brand new interview with vice president kamala harris to show you conducted by our colleague at nbc news, hallie jackson. plus new reporting about the deep, deep ties between donald trump and the very wildly unpopular project 2025. all that and more after a quick break. to support my muscle and bone health. qunol's extra strength, high absorption magnesium helps me get the full benefits of magnesium. qunol, the brand i trust. [child laughing] (♪♪) (♪♪) [child giggling with delight] (♪♪) come on you two. dinner time.

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we are sitting here two weeks away from election night. last election the former president came out on election night and declared victory before all the votes were counted. what is your plan if he does that again in two weeks? >> well, let me say this. we've got two weeks to go. and i'm very much grounded in the present in terms of the task at hand. and we will deal with election night and the days after as they come. and we have the resources and the expertise and the focus on that as well. >> so you have teams ready to go? is that what you're saying? are you thinking about that as a possibility? >> of course. this is a person, donald trump, who tried to undo a free and fair election, who still denies the will of the people, who incited a violent mob to attack the united states capitol and 140 law enforcement officers

were attacked. some were killed. this is a serious matter. the american people are at this point two weeks out being presented with a very, very serious decision about what will be the future of our country. >> that's vice president kamala harris in a brand new interview with our nbc news colleague hallie jackson on the very real risk that donald trump could try to steal the 2024 election as he did the 2020 election. should he fall short at the ballot box. that interview airing on nbc news now and nbc "nightly news." joining our conversation, president of media matters for america angelo carusone is here. and with me at the table msnbc legal analyst and nyu law professor melissa murray is at the table. melissa, your thoughts to how stark the choice is between the body of reporting about his

absolute disdain foern for men and women of the military, especially those who die or are injured, the very real possibility the vice president talks about there that he could try to steal another election should he come up short in the ballot box. >> again, we've already seen what trump 1.0 looks like. trump 2.0 will look even darker and more dismal than what we saw the first time around. we know the first time around that donald trump was not prepared to be the president. he wasn't expecting to win. he didn't have a transition team in place. and you saw that. they had a really difficult time getting up and running. a lot of their defeats at the supreme court were because they literally could not do government right. they couldn't follow the right protocols. they kept getting their programs invalidated on those grounds. that will not happen in a second trump administration. they know what they're going to do. they have a playbook, project 2025, for the first 180 days. that's just six months. and it's 900 pages. and it's a complete revamping of the federal government.

it will completely change the nature of government, and it will make government look less like democracy and far more like an autocracy. so the contrast could not be more stark. yes, we have a dismal economy, but we are also facing the prospect of fascism. and actually, the economy isn't even that dismal. things are rebounding. but everyone is talking about the economy. but in fact, we are actually facing the real premise and specter of fascism. >> i think on the economy too all the data suggests that that's not the case, that there's a feels issue with the economy. >> the vibes are poor. >> it can feel expensive. people feel bad about it. even if they don't feel bad about their personal economy they feel bad or worried about their kids or their neighbors or others. and yes, that is throughout history, angelo, a ripe climate for an autocrat, which is exactly what project 2025 ushers in. >> yeah, i mean, you know, project 2025 as melissa noted, it's not just about sort of

aspirational ideas. they have a playbook about what the first 180 days looks like. it's worth noting that that playbook is the one part of project 2025 that they have not made public. that's the thing that russell vought is doing in secret, in addition to drafting 350 individualized memos, executive orders and guidance for departments and agencies to be implemented in the first few weeks of the administration. so that's part of it. and then as you noted in the opening segment it's sort of a little bit bigger than that. because project 2025 sort of goes beyond what happens when trump gets into office. it also provides the bedrock for the organizing and the connective tissue for sort of helping steal the election in the first place. we just put out a new report today that points out that ten of the major players that are part of project 2025 extensively detailed all the work that they're doing right now to attempt to steal or undermine the election, that is, litigation, that is putting out

false information and false reports about non-citizens voting already. they're already flooding the zone with the types of information that they would then capitalize -- disinformation that they would nen capitalize on to sort of push not just public opinion but then initiate and execute sort of this larger legal strategy that they're putting in place. that's what makes this so real and scary-s that they're not just winging it like last time. this is not sort of a thing that's happening on the fly. this is their backup plan if they don't get the majority of votes. it's a full-on transition to tyranny well before they even get into office. and it is an alarm. >> i mean, i think the bright spot is that project -- in the sort of how bad is it project 2025 is so bad even trump's people hate it. so i want to go through some of the new reporting in the "new york times" today about the deep ties between trump's orbit and this very unpopular plan, project 2025. i have to sneak in a quick break. we'll all be right back on the other side. l be right back on te other side

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we've been covering project 2025 and the brand new reporting in the "new york times" that combed through the numerous people who worked on the 900-page far page far right manifesto angela is talking about and found a stunning number of direct ties to the ex-president, donald trump. 18 of 40 authors and editors who worked on the document served in the first trump administration. one worked on trump's first presidential transition team, 12 of them worked both in trump's first administration and on one

of his transitional campaign teams. of the 267 additional contributors to the project 2025 playbook, at least 144 of them also worked for trump previously. we're back with anglo and melissa. anglo, this idea that project 2025 is sort of this deadweight that jd vance and trump have to carry around does bear out in the polls, but only if it's sort of put in front of voters in a way that's a little clunky, without a lot of visual aids. governor tim walz does it everywhere he goes. he does it on podcasts, on rallies. he does it at off the record stops. do you -- what is your sense, sort of knowing at such a granular level how much has seeped in? >> it's one of the few things where people -- the consciousness and the awareness of project 2025 zoomed up, once that catalyst happened. once kevin roberts talked about the the blood less revolution if democrats allow it and people

started to pay attention, within less than a month 70% of americans were made aware of 2025 and majority had negative feelings about it before the summer of discussion. that's just unprecedented. things like that don't happen unless the full right wing media echo chamber is all spun out. it is an albatross. you can look at trump, ignore the data. there's a reason he is constantly out there screaming and yelling about how unfair it is that democrats keep trying to saddle him with project 2025. but the problem with that, though, as the new york times reporting details, even when you dig beyond just what they've uncovered in terms of the connections, trump has done seven public appearances in just the last few weeks with key project 2025 authors. the overlap is intense. everywhere you look, you can't shrug it. just yesterday, kevin roberts, the head of 20 ta shrugged off trump's efforts to disassociate. we're focussed on november 6th the day after the election. that's when policy comes into place and that's when we shine,

that's our terrain. as much as trump has tried to distance himself from it, those efforts haven't been effective and it's important we keep emphasizing that. it is deeply unpopular. >> melissa, let me show you vice president's new ad. we don't visit. but let me read it to you. donald trump -- oh, here it is. here it is. >> donald trump makes a lot of promises. but we can be sure of one thing. if he wins, he'll ignore all checks that reign in a president's power. it's all in trump's project 2025 agenda. what does that mean for you? higher cost on groceries. cuts to social security and medicare. more tax breaks for billionaires. and a national abortion ban putting women's health at risk. a second trump term. more unhinged, unstable and unchecked. >> what do you think? >> i like it. i think it's really important to etch size some of those bread and butter issues, also the

emphasis on abortion rights. that's a major issue with women voters and the ad exactly right. the 1873 act enacted before women could vote in this country. and it's just lying dormant on the books. it will be deployed in a trump administration to limit the transmission of medication abortion through the mails and it's just lying there. it doesn't need congress, doesn't need a vote in either house. all it needs is a new attorney general with a president behind him who is willing to enforce this. so emphasizing the real stakes, this is what it's going to mean for your pocketbook and doctor's office. if you get in there and read the fine print, project 2025 is absolutely alarming. and when donald trump says, i don't know her, this is not a mariah carey moment. these are all people who are in the trump circle, many served in the first trump administration and most of them are likely to serve in the second trump administration, if that happens. >> and what about the supreme court? because to your point, trump would enact all of these --

changes is the wrong word. draconian destruction of the government. what do you think the supreme court would do? >> i'm so glad you asked. the supreme court has basically been laying the ground work for a lot of this. project 2025 wants to dismantle the administrative state. the supreme court already begun that process by overruling chevron, just last summer. there's more to come with that. the supreme court has seeded the ground. the project 2025 says that the president is going to be able to bring the department of justice into the white house. basically make it both the public defender for the president and an arm to prosecute the president's enemies. the supreme court said in that trump immunity decision that anything the president does with regard to the department of justice is within the scope of his official duties. so that is immunized. so the court has set up the perfect set of conditions to cultivate an actual dictator in our midst. so, they're part of the problem,

too. >> anglo, from our many, many conversations now over a long time, i mean, i've come to understand that you know, the autocratic things that trump says are buttressed now by an autocrat eijkman yule for how he changes the government and the stars that align are what melissa just articulated the supreme court, the autocrat himself and the policy apparatus that goes in and changes government. the other tool of an autocrat is despair and hopelessness. but all of this education and all of this sort of public awareness, i mean, these are the polls on project to 25 according to nbc news. 57% have a negative view, only 4% a positive view. what are your thoughts as we head into the last two weeks? >> i think what is important that we continue to talk about it. because it's one thing that continues to have some broad consensus. there are few things that have that consensus and it's important that we do. it puts into focus what this election is really about. it takes it out of the personal

opponent and individual component and puts into stark contrast. that's the first thing. when trump makes these references about military, deploying the military, when ever i hear those things, immediately i think about the project 2025 underpinning of it. the more he talks about that i talk about -- i think about the military memos they drafted, how he can use those powers. it's important we had this conversation. i'm glad we're having them. >> and they are to be continued. please stay free between the hours of 4 and 6:00 p.m. eastern. anglo and melissa, thank you so much for joining us today. another break. we'll be right back. us today. another break. we'll be right back. when i have customers come in and ask for something for memory, i recommend prevagen. number one, because it's effective. does not require a prescription. and i've been taking it quite a while myself and i know it works. and i love it when the customers come back in and tell me, "david, that really works so good for me." makes my day. prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription. hi, i'm amanda

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