dairy farm and understands what this state is supposed to be about, and somebody who represents the worst kind of maga extremism and has a pension and reputation for screaming at teenagers. that is kind of a microcosm for this entire election cycle. it could come down to a tiny margin there, too. but, if you talk to western wisconsin democrats, they are working their hearts out. i have been there a whole bunch of times and going back this weekend. you can see the energy on the ground with neighbors talking to neighbors on blocks where it is alternating trump and harris yard signs, and then there is the shy voters who don't want to put a sign out. maybe they don't want to tell their husbands how they are going to vote, but they know that a vote this year can define the future of freedom for themselves, for their daughters, and all of their kids for generations to come. and that is how it feels on the ground, that it is all on the line now. >> the art sites being clustered in swing areas. clearly, one person puts it out, then there is another, they have a little colony of them, then you go for a while without any because nobody has broken the seal, yet. ben wheeler, who has been seeing a lot of that in

crisscrossing the state of wisconsin. thank you very much. >> thanks, chris. >> that is "all in" on the thursday night, "alex wagner tonight" starts right now. good evening, alex. >> i can tell you from anecdotal, personal express -- actually, not anecdotal -- that there are flags off in part of that swing district in that i am familiar with where everyone is claiming the flag and it is a way of maybe trolling your neighbors. >> it is so funny! you can just be like, the discourse is happening right there, physically. >> i like, oh, they have a harris-walz flag up? we will put a trump sign up with our flag, and so it goes, down the block. where it ends? nobody knows. all right, thank you, my friend. t -12 days until election day, and in the final moments of this campaign, vice president kamala harris is pulling out all of the stops in the swing state of georgia, with a star-studded lineup of campaign surrogates. >> georgia, we've got 12 days to choose which way our country is going to go from here. >> you already know what time it is. we don't have a moment to lose. you want to stop that other guy -- i don't call him by his name -- i call him "agent orange." >> she is running to be the

47th president of the united states. donald trump is running to be an american tyrant. >> i watched him from the central park five, the project 2025 -- [ audience reacts ] and what i realize is that in this donald trump america, there is no dream that looks like me. >> now, those celebrities were just the warm-up act for harris' number one surrogate, former president barack obama. the 44th president used his time to make sure voters had heard this week's bombshell news that donald trump's former top aide is on the record condemning trump in the strongest possible terms. >> the other day, general john kelly, donald trump's former chief of staff, said that trump told him he wanted his generals to be like hitler's generals. now, don't you. vote.

now, i want to explain that in politics, a good rule of thumb is, don't say you want to do anything like hitler. and john kelly isn't the only one saying this. two of his defense secretaries -- people who worked for him -- said the same thing. we do not need four years of a want to be king, wannabe dictator, running around trying to punish his enemies. that is not what you need in your life. america is ready to turn the page. we are ready for a better story. georgia, we are ready for a president kamala harris. >> and that was sort of the theme of tonight's rally. amid all of the joy and the laughter, there was a very serious message about the danger donald trump poses if he gets back in the white house. if a man who looks to nazi germany for inspiration is allowed unchecked power,

thanks especially to a recent supreme court ruling. vice president harris made it very clear that that is what is at stake, here. >> as president, trump praised hitler. take a moment to think about what that means, that trump said "hitler did some good things." and that trump wished he had generals like hitler's, who would be loyal to trump, and not to america's constitution. this is not 2016 and it is not 2020. 12 days left in one of the most consequential elections of our lifetime, and i don't need to tell you voting has already started, and everybody here knows it is going to be a tight race until the very end. so, we have a lot of work ahead of us. but, we like hard work. hard work is good work!

hard work is joyful work! and make no mistake, we will win. we will win. we will win. [ audience reacts ] >> joining me now is my friend and colleague, joy reid, host of "the readout" on nbc. joy, thank you for pulling double duty, my friend. i am so eager to hear your thoughts about this rally that we heard tonight. admittedly, some of the lines, we have heard before. there was some new material, too. i thought harris was as electrifying and as enthusiastic, and excited, honestly, as she has been in the course of this campaign. but, i do wonder what you make of the kind of careful calibration that both she and barack obama had to make between, you know, characterizing donald trump as an aging grifter, worthy of

delusion and laughter on one hand, but also a looming threat to democracy and someone who will be very, very dangerous if re-elected. how did you feel about it? and how did you feel about this sort of calibration, there? >> you know, i will tell you, i watched the lead up in the beginning of the kamala harris speech and obviously the obama speech, on my show sitting next to a alyssa johnson, who worked on president obama's 2008 campaign, she is a veteran of the obama universe. one of the things we both noted is that there is nothing more delightful than barack obama's delight, at his own performance. like, he enjoys himself so much, he is so back in the groove, and his stump speech that he has rolled out, that he has added some things to, including, at first, informing people of the hitler love that we have now heard john kelly report, regarding the former president. so, i think he is completely in his gain. he is in his element. one wonders if he had been called on to the sherry beasley

campaign in north carolina, what kind of difference he could have made, there. so, it is a good thing to have these two political phenoms together. i just have to say, just as a cultural moment, to have the first black president there to send up what could be the second black president and first asian-american and first woman president was actually something that was pretty culturally incredible, to see them back together. longtime political allies. but, yes, i think the purpose of these speeches, particularly in a place like georgia that is already voting, in addition to the obvious entertainment value of having a tyler perry, and a spike lee, and a samuel l. jackson, and a bruce springsteen there till -- to rile of the crowd, is also to get to voters who don't necessarily watch us, right? we wish everybody was watching us, and watching msnbc, and we want them to, but not everybody is getting their information from cable news. so, there are voters who exist in the universe of more pop culture who may not have heard that donald trump's former chief of staff said that he liked hitler and would like to

rule like hitler. and so, the important thing, going into these early voting states, is to get that sound bite in front of people who are not only physically there inside the arena, but onto the local news. two force that information outside of the msnbc cnn universe to force it into people who might even get some of their information from fox. every chance that they are getting, they are getting this news out. they are making sure that people know what donald trump is, while at the same time, leaning into their advantage in terms of the culture. one of the best lines tonight was actually from tyler perry, who talked about america as a quilt, in saying that is the america we want. what we don't want, in his words, is a candidate that sees america as a sheet. powerful words from tyler perry. so, i think tonight, it was pretty important, culturally, but substantively, as well. >> yeah, and i would say to that tyler perry metaphor, when

you think of white sheets, what you think of? >> especially in georgia! >> yes, especially in georgia. now, you talk about barack obama and the joy he has on the campaign trail and how much he is in his group. he is just doing something he did not do, as i recall, in previous election cycles. which is reminding people of the economy, he gave republicans, and particularly donald trump, the pandemic playbook that his wrote, and likely given trump's mismanagement of the covid-19 pandemic would have potentially saved many american lives. he did that tonight, too. let's take a listen to that. >> when i was president, we put together an entire playbook for how to deal with a pandemic. when donald trump came in, we gave him that playbook, and i guess he dropped it in the dustbin. some folks would be like, well, donald trump sent me a check -- do you understand this? joe biden sent you a check

during the pandemic, just like i gave people relief during the great recession. the thing is, we didn't put our name on it, because it wasn't about feeding our egos, it wasn't about advancing our politics, it was about helping people. that is the difference! i have heard people say this, right? i will talk to them, "why would you speak about voting for this guy?" well, i remember the economy, when we first came in, it was pretty good. yeah. yeah, it was good, because it was my economy! [ cheers and applause ] i handed over 75 straight months of job growth to donald trump and all he did was give tax cuts to folks who didn't need it, drove up the deficit in the process, and now he wants to do it again. you can't give him credit for that! >> i -- this feels so overdue.

this fact check is so important and i honestly wish -- it is great to have obama make the case, but honestly, democrats should have been saying this for months now. i think it is effective. what do you think, joy? >> absolutely. look, to quote the great political pundit, one of my favorite follows on instagram, rapper prize, you have to brag on your issue, and democrats have been terrible about bragging about the stuff they have done and i wish president obama had done it when he was president. democrats are about putting their heads down and doing the work. >> they are not signing the check! and because they don't want to be about ego. sorry to interrupt. >> they don't want to be about ego and they just believe in doing the work, but here is the thing, america is the tubi nation, america wants the entertainment, america wants the constant entertainment and the wretched value. they really want to know what you are doing and be constantly entertained and communicated to. and so, here is the reality. donald trump did one really smart political move, which is to violate all prior propriety

and stick his name above the treasury secretary's name on those stimulus checks that he didn't give. as barack obama adequately said, that was joe biden and nancy pelosi who gave out those checks. but, so many low information voters are based on those stimulus checks and they are talking directly to working- class voters of color, who will tell don lemon, when she is interviewing them on the street, that they are voting based on the stimmy. they need to break that information logjam, and get people to understand where that stimulus check came from, that is core democratic policy. and that when donald trump came in, he was golfing well president obama's economy was cooking. it was obama's economy he was living off of. that is why he had time to play golf, because he really didn't do much as president, except spend down and basically squander all of the bounty that barack obama left him by giving

it to billionaires like elon musk, who are now funding him to keep the tax cut. this is key information. those are the clips that the kamala harris-tim walz campaign once clipped and socialized, so that people can get out of this information bubble and this lie that donald trump had a great economy. no, no, no, no. president obama had a great economy, handed it to this man who squandered it, then messed up covid, and ended the great economy and plunged us into a recession, that then the cleanup man, biden and his co- conspirator and cleanup woman, kamala harris had to fix. >> i will say, the democrats' management of the american economy is not just a good thing in the past, it is -- regardless of what the polling tells you -- biden has managed this american economy in a fashion that is unprecedented.

i was told today that the median american income -- the median american income -- is the highest it has been in modern american history right now. that doesn't account for inflation, but that is what is real, that is what is happening right now. i don't know. is joe biden going to have to go out on the campaign trail in the next election cycle and remind people of that? let's hope not. joy reid host of "the readout" airing at 7 p.m. weeknights right here on msnbc. it is a thrill and a joy to see you twice in a day, my friend. >> thank you, my friend. appreciate you. we have a lot to get you tonight. from her fourth lady michelle obama joined the more than 30 million americans who have cast an early ballot. we will dig into what early voting numbers tell us about that race. and later, tucker carlson takes trump's followers' daddy fantasies to an even darker place, if that is even possible. don't go away. don't go away. 70. consider an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan from unitedhealthcare. with this type of plan, you'll know upfront about how much your care costs. which makes planning your financial future easier. so call unitedhealthcare today to learn more about the only plans of their kind

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happening around the country in 48 states, and so far, more than 30 million people have cast their vote including former first lady michelle obama who posted a picture holding her mail-in ballot today. early turnout in the battleground states of georgia, north carolina, wisconsin, and michigan is so high, it has broken records. so, with polling basically frozen, can these early voting numbers tell us anything about where this race might be headed? well, joining me now are two people who might be able to answer that question, dan pfeiffer, former senior adviser to president obama, cohost of "positive america" and writer of the messagebox newsletter. and simon rosenberg, political strategist and author of "the opium chronicles" on sub stick. great to have you here. now, dan, let me start with you, first. i would love both of you guys to weigh in on this. the early voting numbers in nevada, in arizona, in georgia, republicans are outpacing --

or, republican registrants are outpacing democratic registrants in the early vote, in north carolina, it is essentially a tie. i am told by analysts that these are voters who were going to vote anyway, so it doesn't necessarily predict anything on election day. but, do you read anything into republican motivation other than trump's taboo against early voting has seemingly evaporated? >> i would not read too much into these. people have gotten a lot of elections wrong, particularly to read into the early vote very early in the process. what we are seeing is that republicans are no voting early. from talking to folks on the campaign what they are telling me is that these are primarily people who were going to vote on election day anyway. what we are not yet seen is some evidence that a bunch of more propensity less likely republican voters are turning out as part of the early vote.

it is just how people vote is changing in this country which is why turnout is so high and i think the democrats are doing well. we have to learn more about the makeup of these voters overtime, so don't read too much into it, don't celebrate, don't panic. it is kind of a black box for most people. >> a black box, simon, is not a great place -- i don't know. who wants to be in a black box? i just -- i will say, i know at the risk of being overly calm -- no one has ever accused me of doing that -- the idea that we hear that republican registrations are higher, they are going up, the democratic ones are going down in certain battleground states like pennsylvania, we are seeing the early votes tilt more toward republicans in certain battleground states, although not all. i am assuming -- given the fact that you are the author of "the hopium chronicles", that you are not reading too much into this. >> welcome i think to go back to what you said at the beginning, the polling has been very steady and consistent now for six weeks since the debate happened. we had confirmation that in the non-red wave polls, the non- republican polls, the independent polls, they have

stayed very steady. kamala harris has a modest lead nationally and is in better shape for the battleground. what we all believed was going to happen now in these final few weeks was that our ground advantage, the fact that we are putting more ads out on the air, the fact that this spectacle they are creating every day, what you guys just talked about is far more interesting, and compelling than what the other team is doing -- we expected that we would be moving the election towards us, that we would take a close election and go out and win it. i think in the last few days, as dan pointed out, we are getting deeper into the early vote, so we are starting to understand a little bit more about the patterns. democrats have been improving in all seven battleground states now for three days in a row, where things are getting better, marginally better, which is what we would expect, given our advantages that i just discussed, the field advantages, the better media, right?

frankly, a better candidate, as well, as trump is ending in a messy way and not in a powerful way. so, i am very encouraged, actually, with what i'm seeing in the battleground states over the past few days because it is exactly what would happen if we are going to win, which is that things are going to get marginally better a little bit every day, and we go into election day with more momentum and more capacity because the early vote is also a test of not just intensity, but also organization. dan wrote about in his sub stack that dan milly, running the campaign, is a field genius. and you are starting to see the impact of our stronger campaign on the ground, moving the boat toward us in the last few days in particular. >> i think it bears mentioning that i am not ever going to call it dead wedding because i think the stakes are way too high to be accused of wetting the bed if they are worried about this election. but, some of the concern, if not the outright fear right now, is based on an influx of republican, decidedly explicitly republican polls that have basically flooded the zone and maybe just on the margins, nudging up the national polling, or the

polling averages. now, i stopped looking at polls because they seem to just be frozen at 0.2, 0.3, -0.2, -0.3 -- what difference does that make? except for the narrative, dan. both of you guys have talked about this in the press and on your sub stack, dan, in terms of what it does for establishing a predicate for a trump supporter to say, our guy is about to run away with this and anything less than a victory is a stolen election. can you talk a little bit more about that? >> yeah, look, i don't worry too much about what the media narrative does for the voters we need to turn out. they are not, as tori and rita pointed out before we came on, they are not consuming all this information. they will make decisions on which candidate they like better, which candidate will do more for their lives, but the fundamental danger of all of these republican polls that are flooding the zone that simon has written about so often is that they create an impression among the republican base that

trump was going to win, it was an easy win, and if anything other than that happens, then there must been some sort of malfeasance. it is exactly what happened in 2020, and it becomes the thing that trump is going to wait around on election night when the race is called for kamala harris, to say that it was stolen, and then began the process of the big lie 2.0, insurrection 2.0. so, it is important that we push back on that and try to win this by as much as we can and make that a hard to win case. >> when we talk about the lies and disinformation, i do want to bring everybody's attention to some breaking news from the wall street journal. they are reporting that trump's surrogate, the guy literally running trump's ground operation , his grassroots outreach, his doorknocking, elon musk, has had secret conversations with vladimir putin, numerous ones, since 2022, the end, i believe, of 2022. simon, president obama spent a lot of time talking about the danger that trump poses in a second term. kamala harris talked about it, as well, tonight. we now have john kelly out there, his former chief of staff, his defense

secretaries, saying that he would be a fascist in a second term. we now have reporting that the guy who is one of his closest advisers in many ways funding the trump campaign is in touch with america's greatest geopolitical adversary. do you have a reaction to that? and if you have any sense of if that is going to move anyone? >> welcome i just wanted to say one thing about what dan said. remember, they wouldn't be dropping more than 80 polls, 31 different organizations, if they thought they were winning the election. right? this is really important to understand. they are trying to shape the media narrative because it isn't actually going in the direction that they want. so, they have had to invest in all of this. so, it is a sign of weakness and not strength on their part. in this, look, i think the role of elon -- look, there was a graphic that was put out after the convention, where they had -- it was on the gop twitter feed, it was musk, robert kennedy, posey gabbard, jd vance, and donald trump. the five people probably most closely aligned with the russian wing of the republican

party, all in one star wars bar graphic that they used all the time. it is amazing, how many of the people that they are pushing forward, has such direct ties to russia, and we know that elon does, because elon is without doubt the most important pro-russian propagandist in american politics today. we also know that he does more business with communist china than virtually any other businessman. very few people in the business world or in america spend as much time with foreign hostile governments as elon musk does. this has always been a huge problem, and it is actually really important, i think, the idea that elon is pumping out this unbelievably rented pro- russian propaganda for the last six months, nine months, 12 months, without any kind of penalty for him, that has been not okay. i mean, the influence to the

republican party, the way that the republicans have penetrated the republican party is a major issue and i am glad it is coming out right before the election. >> well, we will have more on that as we get more details. dan pfeiffer, simon rosenberg, thank you so much for helping me navigate this uncertain time. i appreciate your patience and wisdom. >> thank you so much, alex. coming up, tucker carlson says donald trump is the "daddy" who will come home to give america a spanking. i am not even -- i am not making that metaphor up. that is what is really happening. we are going to talk about that, next. that, next. discover the power of wegovy®. ♪ ♪ with wegovy®, i lost 35 pounds. and some lost over 46 pounds. ♪ ♪ and i'm keeping the weight off. wegovy® helps you lose weight and keep it off. i'm reducing my risk. wegovy® is the only fda-approved weight-management medicine that's proven to reduce risk of major cardiovascular events in adults with known heart disease and with either obesity or overweight.

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we are a dumping ground, we are like a garbage can. you know, it is the first time i have ever said that. >> when he is not dancing to the village people's "ymca," whenever donald trump appears at a campaign event, he makes one thing very clear, he is fed up and you should be, too. trump believes democrats have turned america into "a garbage can." his remarks last night at a rally in duluth, georgia, hosted by the conservative group turning point action followed much the same script. trump told the crowd that democrats have created an open border, that vice president harris is a threat to democracy, and that she will destroy the country. now, what was different about last night is just before trump took the stage, his warm-up act was disgraced tv personality, tucker carlson, who revved up

the crowd with an extraordinarily heavy-handed, misogynist, violent, and kind of pervy speech that presented donald trump's as america's daddy. >> there has to be a point at which dad comes home. [ audience reacts ] yeah, that's right! [ audience reacts ] dad comes home. and he's >> okay, donald trump has been referring to himself as "america's father figure" for a while now. at a fox town hall for women last week, he called himself "the father of ivf," despite admitting himself he doesn't know what ivf is. at a rally in pennsylvania, trump assured women he will be there protector.

this daddy complex is enough of a regular feature of trump rallies that trump supporters now sell "daddy" t-shirts at his rallies and online. but, tucker -- tucker carlson took it to a whole new level last night. in his speech, daddy wasn't just going to protect the women, he was going to punish the errant children -- in this case, democrats and liberals -- and especially the one running against daddy for the presidency of the united states. >> kamala harris shouldn't have a job! she has no skills! how did she wind up at the top of the pyramid? and then, when she is there, she lectures you, like you did something! it's too much. the second reason you can't allow it, is very familiar to anyone who has children, which is if you allow it, you will encourage more of it. if you allow your hormone addled 15-year-old daughter to slam the door of her bedroom and give you the finger, you are going to get more of it. it is not good for you, and it

is not good for them. no! there has to be a point at which dad comes home. you have been a bad girl. you have been a bad, little girl and you are getting a vigorous spanking, right now. and, no, it is not going to hurt me more than it hurts you. no, it's not. i'm not going to lie. this is going to hurt you a lot more than it hurt me, and you earned this. you have been getting a vigorous spanking because you have been a bad girl. you are only going to get better when you take responsibility for what you did. it is said in the spirit of justice, which is the purest and best thing there is. >> if you are wondering how that creepy, violent diatribe on "the purest form of justice" went over, this is how the crowd greeted trump afterwards. >> what a nice crowd, this is. >> "daddy don." the problem for kamala harris, and anyone who is disturbed by

the notion of "daddy don" as america's banker in chief, the problem is that message is resonating far outside that room in georgia. as harris and the democrats try to earn votes of young men amid an exploding gender gap many of those same men report feeling aggrieved and left behind in college campuses, and houses, and the housing market. and the trump campaign is turning those frustrations into a movement, targeting pros on podcasts, supporting southern frats, defending the flag, catering to right-wing influencers with male fans. and trump lackeys, like tucker carlson, are pointing all of the grievances of that movement directly at kamala harris and november 5th. >> if they do all of that, they need to lose. and at the end of all of it when they tell you they have won, no! you can look them straight in the face and say, "i'm sorry,

dad's home, and he is " >> whether kamala harris wins on election day or not, tucker carlson is saying this movement, trump's movement, will make sure dad is home. i will talk with new york times political columnist and bernie sanders' former campaign manager about that message and the danger of its residents -- residents with american men. that is next. on the s tamra, izzy and emma... they respond to emails with phone-calls... and they don't "circle back" they're already there. they wear business sneakers and pad their keyboards with something that makes their clickety- clacking... clickety-clackier. but no one loves logistics as much as they do. you need tamra, izzy and emma. they need a retirement plan. work with principal so we can help you with a retirement

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>> those are trump supporters chanting "daddy don" at a rally last night after tucker carlson offered one of the pickiest comparisons this election cycle, comparing donald trump to a daddy spanking a little girl. the trump campaign is embracing its daddy complex as they make it their final pitch to male voters who, according to the latest polls, support donald trump over kamala harris by 16 percentage points. joining me now is michelle goldberg, the new york times political columnist, and the former campaign manager for bernie sanders' 2020 campaign. it is great to have both of you guys here, michelle. i imagine he cringe was in order when you first heard the reference to donald trump spanking a metaphorical little girl. >> not a metaphorical little girl, a metaphorical teenager. >> yes, a 15-year-old. >> that is like, so sick and -- >> depraved, kind of?

>> right, they take the s&m undercurrent of maga and make it so explicit in a way that, yes, i find it -- revolting but i don't think it is only diehard liberal women who would find that revolting. part of me realizes they should cut and i got in say, this is what they think of you. >> dads, for example, men should find that as revolting as women. >> i mean, and also, i mean, just to go back a few months "weird." right? this is pervy, not just weird, but kind of pathological. >> faz, i have to ask you, because you were so deeply involved in the bernie sanders movement, you know, there was never a sense that that wing of the democratic party was leaving men out, but there is a narrative right now that democrats are not effectively speaking to men. in fact, they were known as "bernie bros," some of your most ardent supporters. can you talk to me about the

differences you see in the progressive wing of the democrat party, circa that moment, and now? >> anger, as an emotion, in my view, is justified. if people are angry, you have a right to be angry, but who are you angry at? it is not a permission structure to be a jerk in society. we need a society to function. we don't sit around and say, women are second-class citizens, therefore they can't get access to birth control, we demean them, we suggest spanking them, we tell them you can't have no-fault divorces -- which by the way it is in project 2025 -- we track your abortions, these are ideological structures of the right that are meant and intended to punish women, particularly women, but people with whom they disagree. they want to engage in punishment out of anger. our view on the progressive side has long been that the anger is justified, get angry at the right people, and punish the right people. that is why we have gotten angry at corporate america.

when you look at sean fay and his anger as the head of the uaw, who is it directed at? it is not at immigrants, at women, it is at corporate america, was making your economic lives harder, and that appeal, in my view, still has more cachet, more ability to attract and persuade people into the democratic circle. >> and that is very sort of fact-based anger, right? that is driven by economic hardship, achievement gap, and all the rest. but, there clearly is a cultural element to this rage that probably has been fomented by the trump campaign and when you look at how kamala harris has to deal with this in the closing days of this campaign, it is -- i don't know if there is any kind of playbook for the woman who represents the end of the presidential patriarchy to soothe the hurt of male voters who is run at the presidency is displaced. >> right, and this is -- you know, there is this kind of growing gap between men and women, both a growing achievement gap, especially along younger people, but also a relational gap. men and women increasingly can't relate. you see this in the breakdown of dating, relationships, marriages, childbearing.

there is this incredible alienation in which a lot of men feel left behind, and the irony here is that so much of this hostility -- at least in america -- was jumpstarted by trump's shock victory in 2016. you know, that is what catalyzed the #metoo movement, as women looked around, and they saw that this self- confessed sexual assault or had just become president, and they couldn't do anything about it, and they felt this tremendous rage and helplessness, and they began turning it against the abusers in their own circles, in their own industries, and there was this big, thick cathartic explosion that both kind of shined a light on the scale of the abuse, but also left a lot of men unsure about what the new rules of relating to women were. and so, now, some of them are going to vote for donald trump, hoping to set it right, but donald trump is old, he cannot

restore their lost status. he can only increase the alienation. >> well, yeah, and that is kind of -- you know, faz, in terms of a playbook the democrats should be working from -- and i would say particularly harris, not that you are second- guessing any of the decisions the campaign is making -- but, the notion of intersection audi is derided, but that seems to be the only way to both address the concerns that women have about their bodily autonomy, the concerns that men have about their place in society, the considerations of marginalized communities that are fighting for civil and equal rights. i mean, that seems like the only way to play this, right? where you are addressing all the causes and not weaponizing them. >> yeah, i agree, and i think we need to continue to make appeals to men. we can't write them off. the thing michelle is saying is an economic fact. men are graduating college at lower rates than women are now, and at least middle-class lifestyles at a lower rate than

women are now, and so that economic feeling left behind is based on some degree of economic reality, but what we have done in the past few years is also re-instill some of what we had left behind which is working with your hands, building in the building trades, building back america. this was the whole conception of the industrial policy coming back, that your value, your life, there is a future for you being an electrician, being a pipefitter, an hvac repair person, which i think democrats are bringing back. there is a way in which you culturally sell that and package that is not just policy. we talk about that as policy lot, but it is also a lifestyle. it is freedom. it is economic movement. it is thinking about what you are good at and wanting you to aspire to your best life. i think there is more for us to be able to do to make the appeal -- not just write you off -- the intersection audi, to say we want you, as young males in this movement and we are thinking about you and have a plan for you. >> yeah, and that is where i

feel the surrogate game is so critical in this, whether it is michelle or barack obama, who in the last couple of days who has really been targeting his message toward young men. he will have to make that argument in a way that harris can't, herself. >> right, yes, that is part of the reason that tim walz was chosen. but, i think faz is really correct that it can't just be about an identity of appeal, there has to be some effort to communicate what has been done to actually give you a greater array of freedom and opportunity -- i mean, dr. but donald trump wins, others policy joe biden has gotten underway, he is going to rip the credit for, because a lot of these jobs joe biden has created has not yet come online but they are going to quite soon. >> i can't imagine what that would look like maybe barack obama handing over a great economy to donald trump and then donald trump taking credit for. sell it, democrats! sell it! michelle goldberg and faz, thank you both for your time. >> thank you. >> thank you point when we come back, the

inside story behind the trump administration's child separation policy and how it is being used on the campaign trail. nbc's jacob silver joins me live in studio, next. so, o now. now available: boost max! what if kids in america didn't have to go to bed hungry tonight? what if our moms, dads, and grandparents could put healthy food on the table every day to help us grow strong? what if all of our friends and neighbors had fresh food too, and there was no hunger at all in america?

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i'm gonna need to charge you for three people. in 2018, i was seven, my brother was five or six. they got us they took us to this place. they told us that we were going to be separated, and then we started to cry. >> i don't want this to happen to other kids, and it's sad to see if it is going to happen again. >> the harris campaign earlier this month highlighted the stories of two brothers who were among the more than 5500 migrant children forcibly separated from their families during the trump administration. today, nearly 1000 of those children have yet to be reunited with their families. donald trump has vowed to pursue even more extreme immigration policies if he is re-elected in just 12 days.

joining me now is jacob, nbc news correspondent and one of the executive producers of separated, a film that tells the full story behind trumps state-sponsored crisis of family separation sprint. it is based on the book of the same name. david is the expert on this but i'm thrilled to shine a light on the critical reporting and the work of this film, and also the issue, which hasn't gotten enough attention as we talk so much about immigration point >> i have to say, you have talked so powerfully about it and so consistently, and i'm grateful for that. >> well, this is a crisis point the film is so revelatory, because you have voices of people from inside the trump administration, sort of narrating for us the just wrenching decisions they have to make to do this. can you talk a little bit more about how it came together? >> i think we all have the same question, when i was covering

in real time in 2018 down at the border, after i wrote the book, you sort of say how could the u.s. government to do something that the george w. bush appointed judge stopped the policy called one of the most shameful chapters in the history of our country. the american academy of pediatrics called government sanctions child abuse. how did the united states government do this? and so, i wrote the book after i covered it for us here at msnbc and at nbc, and then morris, the great legendary filmmaker read the book and said he shared some of the same questions that remain unanswered even after i did that reporting and so many other extraordinary journalists did reporting above and beyond what i could have ever done, so we teamed up with nbc studios and msnbc films to make this movie, to hopefully bring some of these questions out into the spotlight at this moment in time. >> can we play a little bit of the film? can we play the one about jonathan white, who is a deputy director of the office of refugee resettlement, talking about cruelty and guilt?

>> if you have children, you need only imagine your own child in a foreign country, not speaking the language, with no parent, with no money, not understanding how that society works, having been apprehended by federal immigration authorities. each of these children is your child in that situation. >> it's quite obvious from these interviews, jacob, that it has been said so many times, but cruelty it really was the point >> yeah, there is nobody better at sort of drawing out the essence of all these people that were involved in the policy. errol caused some good bureaucrats and bad bureaucrats, you have got jonathan white and jaelyn inside at the health and human services at the office of refugee resettlement, they want

everybody that they could that this policy was coming and it was happening. anton holman, some of the same people that donald trump is saying are going to come back and run is homeland security, their immigration apparatus, then you have people like scott light inside, the director, a political appointee, constantly in touch with stephen miller, who you will see in the film, but basically doing the bidding of the administration. so, look, we got here because of bipartisan, democratic and republican immigration policies, it's why donald trump was able to like that institute of family separation policy that tore apart 5500 children from their families, deliberately. so, the question is where do we go from here? and of course, we know what donald trump wants to do, he wants to institute the greatest mass deportation program in our country, which is family separation by another name. the democrats also talk about another conservative turned back to immigration. that's why we talk about in this moment, what is the future

of immigration policy in this country? is it based on a humane system like the biden administration promise question mark are they going to be able to hold up that end of the bargain or not question and the answer is right now, different policies, but it is still a system based in the transparent >> and the window on this has shifted far, far to the right, even the rhetoric around it. it is so essential for all of us as americans, as people who sort of care about the compact of humanity, to remind ourselves of the sin committed in our name on to these children. it is an essential feeling. people are talking about wolverine versus deadpool, this is what you need to go see, where is this playing? >> all over the country right now, you can see it in theaters. we are playing in nine states before election day, then we will have an airing here on msnbc afterwards. >> as we should you, jacob, for everything you're doing, it is great to see you. that is our show for this evening, now it is time for the last word with