democrats, they are working their hearts up. i've been there a bunch of times. you can see the energy in the grounds with neighbors talking to neighbors on blocks words alternating trump and terrorists yard signs. then there are the shy voters who don't want to put a sign out or tell their husbands how they will vote. they know a vote this year can define the future of freedom for themselves and their daughters and the kids for generations to come. that's how it feels on the ground that it's all on the line. >> the yard signs clustered. one puts it out then there's another. they have a little colony then you go without any because no one is broken the seal you. ben who has seen a lot of that crisscrossing wisconsin, thank you. you. that is "all in" on this thursday night alex wagner tonight begins >> i think tell you from

anecdotal personal experience that there are flag offs in the swing district i'm in and it's a way of maybe trolling your neighbors. >> it's so funny like the discourse is happening right there physically. >> all the snips with the harris-walz flag we're going to put up a trump flag down the block. where it ends nobody knows. thank you,s my friend. t-minutes 12 days until election day, and in the final moments of this campaign vice president kamala harris is pulling out of the stops. >> georgia, we've got 12 days to choose which way our country is going to go from here. >> you already know what time it is. that we don't have a moment to lose. yout want to stop that other g. i don't call him by his name. i call him agent orange.

>> she's running to be the 47th president of the united states. donald trump is running to be an american tyrant. >> i'vee watched him from the central park five to project 2025, and what i realize is that in i this donald trump america, there is no dream that looks like me. >> now, those celebrities were just a warmup act for harris' number one surrogate, former president barack obama. the 44th president used his time to make sure voters heard this week's bombshell news, that donald trump's former top aide on the record condemning trump in the strongest possible terms. >> the other day general john kelly, donald trump's former chief of staff, said that trump told him he wanted his generals to be like hitler's generals.

now, don't boo, vote. a good rule in politics is don't say you want to do anything like hitler. and john kelly isn't the only one i saying this. two of his defense secretaries, people who worked for him, said the same thing. we do not need four years of a wanna-be king, a wanna-be dictator running around trying to punishro his enemies. that's not what you need in your life. american america is ready to turn thead page. we are ready for a better story. georgia, we're ready for a president kamala harris. >> and nowen sort of the theme tonight's rally. amid all of the joy and the laughter, there was ad very serial message about the danger donald trump poses if he gets back in the white house, if a mane who looks to nazi germanys

inspiration. vice president harris made it very clear that that is what's at stake here. >> as president trump praised hitler, take a moment to think about what that means. that trump said, quote, hitler did some good things, and that trumpgs wished he had generals like hitler's who would be loyal to trump and not to america's constitution. this is not 2016, and it is not 2020. 12 days left in one of the most consequential elections of our lifetime, and i don't need to tell you voting has already started, andin everybody here knows it's going to be a tight race until the very end, so we have aer lot of work ahead of u. but we like hard work. hard work is good work.

hard workoo is joyful work! and make no mistake, we will win. we will win. we will win. >> joining me now is my friend and colleague joy reid, host of the reid out on msnbc. thank you for pulling double duty, my friend. i'm so eager to hear your thoughts about this rally we heard tonight. there was somed new material, too. i thought harris was as electrifying and as enthusiastic and excited, honestly, as she has been in the course of this campaign. but i do wonder the kind of careful calibration she and obama had to make characterizing donald trump as an aging grifter with derision and laughter on one hand but also a threat to

democracy and someone very, very dangerous if re-elected. how did you feel about it, and how a did you feel about the calibration there? >> i'll tell you, i watched the lead up in the kamala harris speech and obviously obama's speech sitting next to alencia johnson, worked on the 2008 campaign. she's a veteran of the obama universe. one things we noted is there's nothing more delightful than barack obama's delight in this own d performance. he is so much back in the groove in his stump speech he's rolled out, he's added some things to it, in fact informing people about the hitler love we've now heard a john kelly report involving the former president. he's completely in his game and his element. one wonders if he'd been call onto the serry beasley campaign in north carolina, what difference he would have made there.

countywide just like to say as a cultural moment to have the first black president there to send-up what could be the second black president and first asian american and first woman president wasst actually somethg pretty culturally incredible to see them back together, long time political allies. but, yes, i think the purpose of these speeches particularly in a place like georgia that's already voting, in addition to the obvious entertainment value of having a tyler perry and a spike leepe and samuel l. jacks and bruce springsteen there to rallyer up the crowd and we wan them to, but not everybody is getting their information from cable news. there are voters who exist in the universe of more pop culture who may not have heard that donald trump'sha former chief o staff said that he liked hitler and would like to rule like hitler. and so the important thing into going into these early voting

states is to get that sound bite in front of people not only there in the local arena but also the local news, to force that information outside of the msnbc, cnn university, to force it into even people who might get some of their information from fox. every chance they are getting, they are gettingan this news ou. they are making sure that people know what donald trump is while at the same time leaning into their advantage in terms of the culture frp. one of bestnt lines tonight was actually from tylerto perry, wh talked about america as a quilt and saying that's the america we want.we what we don't want, in his words, is a candidate that sees america as a sheet. powerful words from tyler perry. and so tonight it was pretty important culturally but substantively as well. >> i would say to that tyler

perry metaphor when you think of white sheets, what else do you think of? >> and in georgia. >> especiallynd in georgia. when you talk about barack obama and the joy he has on the campaign trail and how much he's in his groove, he's doing something he did not do in previous election cycles. which isle reminding people how much he did in the economy and the play book his administration wrote and in his words and i think likely given truch's mismanagement of the covid-19 pandemic would have potentially saved many american lives. heca did that tonight, too. let's take a listen to that. >> when i was president we put together an entire play book for how to deal with a pandemic. and when donald trump came in, we gave him that playbook. and he, i guess, dropped it in the dustbin. some folks will be like, well, donald trump sent me a check.

joe biden sent you a check during thent pandemic just like gave people relief during the great recession. the thing is, we didn't put our name on it because it wasn't about feeding our egos, it wasn't about advancing our politics. it was about helping people. that's h the difference. i heard people say this, why do you think about voting for this guy? well, i remember the economy when he first came in it was prettymy good. yeah. yeah, it was good because it was my economy. i handed over 75 straight months of job growth to trump, and all he did was give tax cuts to folks who didn't need it, droefbl up the deficit in the process, and now he wants to do it again. you can't give him credit for that. >> this feels so overdue. this fact check is so important, and i honestly wish somebody

making -- it's great to have obama make the case, but honestly democrats should have been saying this for months now. i think it's efltive. what do you think, joy? >> to quote the great political pundit rapper plis, you've got to brag on your ish. and democratson are terrible abt bragging about the stuff they've done. t and i wish barack obama had bragged about iti when he was president. >> andas not sign a check becau they don't want to be about egos. sorry to interrupt. >> here's the thing, america is the tubi nation. america wants entertainment, they want the constant entertainment and value and communicated to. here's the reality, donald trump did one really smart political move, which was to violate all

prior, you know, propriety and stick his name above the treasury secretary's name on those seedy checks that he didn't give. as barack obama accurately said, it was joe biden and nancy pelosi who gave out those checks. so many voters are voting based on those stimi checks and voters of color who will tell don lemon when they're on the street that they're voting on the simi. they o need to get people to understand where that stimulus check came from. when donald trump came in he was golfing while president obama's economy was cooking. it was obama's economy he was living on. that's why he had time to play golf, because he really didn't do much as president except spend down and basically squander all a the bounty obama left him by giving it to billionaires like elon musk, who

are now funding him to keep the tax cut. this is key information. those the clips that the kamala harris-tim walz campaign want clipped and socialized so that people can get out of this information bubble and this lie that donald trump had a great economy. no, no, no, president obama had a great economy, handed it to this man who squandered it, and then messed up covid, and ended the great economy and plunged us into a recession that then the cleanup man, biden, and his coconspirator and cleanup woman, kamala harris, had to fix. >> i will say the democrats management of the american economy is not just a good thing in the past, it is regardless of what the polling tells you, biden has managed this american economyma in a fashion that is unprecedented. i was told today that the median american income, the median american income is the highest it has been in modern american

history right now. it doesn't account for inflation, but that's what's real and happening now. i don't know, is joe biden going to have to go out on the campaign trail in the next election cycle and remind people of that, i don't know. it is a thrill and joy to see you twice in a day, my friend. thanks for your time. >> thank you, my friend. appreciate you. we have a lot to get to tonight. former firstet t lady michelle a joins the more than 30 million americans30 who have cast an eay ballot. we're going to dig into what early voting ballots. and donald trump's followers take his fantasies to an even darker place if that's possible. do not go away. n darker place if that's possible. do not go away

early voting, whether in person or via mail-in ballot is happening across the country in 48 states. and so far more than 30 million

people have cast their vote including former first lady, michelle obama, who posted a picture holding her mail-in ballot today. early turnout in battleground states of georgia, north carolina, wisconsin, and michigan is so high, it has broken records. so with polling basically frozen, can these early vote numbers tell us anything about where this race might be headed? well, joining me now are two people who might be able to answer that question. dan fifer, former senior advisor to president obama, co-host of "pod save america." and simon rosenberg, political strategist a author of the copeium chronicles on substack. it's great to have you guys here to disabuse me of notions that may not be accurate. dan, let me start with you first and i would love for you to weigh in on this. the early voting numbers in nevada, in arizona, in georgia,

republican registrants are outpacing democratic rej strts in the early vote. in north carolina it's effectively a tie. now, dan, i am told by some analysts these are voters who are maybe going to vote anyway so not necessarily going to predict on election day. do you read anything into republican motivation, other than trump's taboo has seemingly evaporated? >> i would not read into too much of these. people have gotten it wrong particularly trying to read in the early voting process. what we are seeing republicans are voting early. these are primarily people who were going to vote on election day anyway. what we're not yet seeing some evidence a bunch of low propensity, less likely republican voters are turning out for the early vote. it's just how people are voting in this country which is

changing. don't read too much into it, don't celebrate, don't panic. it's kind of a black box for most people. >> a black box, simon, is not a great place. who wants to be in a black box? >> i will say at the risk of being overly calm -- no one's ever accused me of doing that -- the idea that we hear republican registrations are higher, they're going up and democratic ones are going down in certain battleground states like pennsylvania. we're seeing the early vote is tilting more towards republicans in certain battleground states though not all. i'm assuming given the fact you're the author of the "hopeium chronicles," simon, you too are not reading too much into this. >> the polling has been very steady and consistent now for six weeks since the debate happened. we had confirmation this week in the national polling that in the non-red wave polls, i call it, the non-republican polls, the independent polls, they've stayed very steady.

kamala harris has a lead nationally and is in better shape in the battlegrounds. what we all believe is going to happen now in this close in the final few weeks is our ground advantage, the fact we're putting more ads up in the air, the fact the spectacle they're creating every day which you guys have talked about is far more interesting and compelling than what the other team is doing, that we expected that we would be moving the election towards us, that we would take a close election and go out and win it. and i think in the last few days, as dan pointed out, we're getting deeper in the early vote, so we're starting to understand a bit more about the patterns. and democrats have been improving in all seven battleground states now for three days in a row where things are getting better, marginally better, which is what we would expect given our advantages which we discussed. as trump is ending in a messy way and a very powerful way. i'm encouraged in what i've seen

in the battleground states the last few days, which is that things are going to get margy better a little bit every day, and we go into election day with more momentum and more capacity because early voting is a test of not just intensity but organization. he wrote in his substack he's a field genius and starting to see the impact of a stronger campaign on ground, moving the vote towards us in the last few days in particular. >> i think it bears mentioning part of the -- i'm not ever going to call it bedwetting because the stakes are too high. some of the concern if not the outright fear now is based on an influx of republican, decidedly, explicitly republican polls that have basically flooded the zone and maybe kind of on the margins nudging up the national polling or the polling averages. now, i've stopped looking at

polls because they seem to be basically frozen and 0.2, 0.3, and negative 2, negative 3, and both of you guys have talked about this in the process on your substack about what it does in establishing a predicate for trump supporters to say our guys are about to run away with this and anything less than a victory is a stolen election. can you talk a little bit more about that? >> yeah, i don't worry too much about when median does, and they're not consuming all this information. they're going to make a decision which candidate is going to do better for their lives. the fundamental danger all these republican polls flooding written about so often is they created an impression among the republican base that trump is going to win, it was an easy win, and if anything other than that happens, then there must have been some sort of malfeasance. it's exactly what happened in 2020, and it becomes the thing

trump is going to wave around on election night when the race is called for kamala harris to say that it was stolen and then begin the process of the big lie 2.0, the insurrection 2.0. it's important we push back on that and make that as hard a case as possible. >> when we talk about lies and disinformation, i do want to bring wn's attention to some lies from wall street journal. they're reporting that trump's surrogate, the guy literally running his ground operation, elon musk has had secret conversations with vladimir putin, numerous ones since 2020, the end of, i believe, of 2022. simon, you know, president obama and i spent a lot of time talking about the danger trump poses in a second term. kamala harris talked about it as well tonight. we now have john kelly out there, his former chief of staff, his defense secretaries, saying he would be a fascist in a second term. we now have reporting that the guy one of his close advisers in

many ways funding a lot of the trump campaign is in touch with one of america's greatest geopolitical adversaries. do you have a reaction to that, and do you have a sense as to whether that's going to move anyone? >> i want to say one thing to what dan said. remember they wouldn't be dropped 80 polls, 31 different organizations if they thought they were winning the election. this is really important to understand they're trying to shape the media narrative because it isn't actually going in the direction they want, because they've had to invest in all this so it's a sign of weakness, not strength on their part. look, i think the roll -- there was a graphic that was put out after the convention where they had the republican was on the gop twitter feed. it was musk, robert kennedy, tulsi gabbard, j.d. vance, and donald trump. the five people probably most closely aligned with the russia wing of the republican party all in one star wars bar, you know, graphic that they used all the

time. it is amazing how many of the people that they are pushing forward has such direct ties to russia, and that we know that elon does because elon is without doubt the most important pro-russian propagandist in american politics today. we also know that he does more business with communist china than virtually any other businessman. very few people in the business world or america spends as much time with foreign hostile governments as elon musk does. this has always been a huge problem, and it's actually really important, i think, this comes out. because the idea that elon has been pumping out this unbelievably rancid pro-russian prop gabda for the last six months, nine months, 12 months without any kind of penalty for him has been not okay. the influence of it republican party, the way the russians have penetrated the republican party is a major issue. i'm glad it's coming out right before the election. >> we're going to have more on

that as we get more details. dan fifer, simon rosenberg, thank you so much for helping me navigate this uncertain time. i appreciate your pace and wisdom. >> thank you so much, alex. coming up tucker carlson says donald trump is the daddy who will come home to give america a spanking. i'm not even -- i'm not making that metaphor up. that's what's really happening. we're going to talk about that next. e beginning. level up to even toned, radiant skin. new vaseline radiant x body lotion with 1% niacinamide. level up to even toned skin.

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we're a dumping-ground. we're like a garbage can. you know, it's the first time i've ever said that. >> when he's not dancing to the village people's "ymca" or bopping to "ave maria" he makes one thing very clear, he is fed up and you should be, too. his remarks last night at a rally in duluth, georgia, hosted by the conservative group turning point action, followed much the same script. trump told the crowd that democrats have created an open border, that vice president harris is a threat to democracy, and that she will destroy the country. now, what was different about last night is that just before trump took the stage his warmup act was disgraced conservative tv personality tucker carlson, who revved up the crowd with an

extraordinarily heavy handed, misogynist, violent, and kind of pervy speech that presented donald trump as america's daddy. >> there has to be a point at which dad comes home. yeah, that's right. dad comes home. and he's pissed. >> okay. donald trump has been referring to himself as america's father figure for a while now. at a fox town hall for women last week, he called himself the father of ivf despite admitting he didn't actually know what ivf is. at a rally in pennsylvania trump assured women he would be their protector. this daddy complex is enough of a regular feature at trump rallies that trump supporters now sell daddy t-shirts at his

rallies and online. but tucker -- tucker carlson took it to a whole new level last night. in his speech daddy wasn't just going to protect the women, he was going to punish the errant children, in this case democrats and liberals, and especially the one running against "daddy" for the presidency of the united states. >> kamala harris shouldn't have a job. she has no skills. how did she wiped up at the top of the pyramid? and then once she's there, she lectures you like you did something. it's too much. the second reason you can't allow is it is very similar to if you have children, which is if you allow it, you encourage more of it. if you allow your hormone addled 15-year-old daughter to slam her door and wiggle your finger, you're going to get more of it. it's not good you and not good for them. no, there has to be a point at

which dad comes home. you've been a bad girl. you've been a bad little girl, and you're getting a vigorous spanking right now. and no, it's not going to hurt me more than it hurts you. no, it's not. this is going to hurt you a lot more than it hurts me, and you earned this. you're getting a vigorous spanking because you've been a bad girl. you're only going to get better when you take responsibility for what you did. it's set in the spirit of justice, which is the purest and best thing there is. >> if you're wondering how that creepy, violent diatribe on the purest form of justice went over, this is how the crowd greeted trump afterwards. daddy don. the problem for kamala harris and anyone who's disturbed by the notion of daddy don as america's spanker in chief, the

problem is that that message is resonating far outside that room in georgia. as harris and the democrats try to earn the votes of young men, and an exploding gender gap, many who see that report left feeling aggrieved in the campuses and housing market. and the trump campaign is turning those frustrations into a movement, targeting bros on podcasts, popular among men, defending the flag, to right-wing influencers with male fans. and trump lackeys like tucker carlson are pointing all of the grievances of that movement directly at kamala harris and november 5th. >> if they do all of that, then they need to lose. and at at the end of it all of it, when they tell you they've won, foe. you can look them straight in the face and tell them, i'm

sorry, dad's home, and he's pissed. >> whether kamala harris wins on election day or not, tucker carlson is saying this movement, trump's movement will make sure dad's home. i'll talk with "the new york times" opinion columnist michelle goldberg and about that message and the danger of its resonance with america now. that's next. of its resonance with america now that's next.

what a nice crowd this is. >> those are trump supporters chanting daddy don after tuck tucker carlson comparing donald trump to a daddy spanking a little girl. the trump campaign is embracing its daddy complex, as they make

their final pitch to male voters who, according to the latest polls, support donald trump over kamala harris by 16 percentage points. joining me now are michelle goldberg, "the new york times" opinion columnist, and faz shakir, campaign manager for bernie sanders 2020 campaign. i imagine a cringe was in order when you first heard the reference to donald trump spanking a metaphorical little girl. >> actually not a metaphorical little girl, a metaphorical teenager. >> yes, a 15-year-old. >> that is like so sick and -- >> depraved. >> they sort of take the s&m undercurrent of maga and make it so explicit in a way i find it so revolting and i don't think it's only die hard republican women that would find it revolting and wish they would cut an ad and say that.

>> men should find it as revolting as women. >> and also to go back two months weird, and not just weird but kind of pathological. >> faz, i've got to ask you because you were so deeply involved in the bernie sanders movement, you know, there was never a sense that wing of democratic party was leaving men out. but there's a neighborative right now democrats aren't speaking to them. in fact, they were known as bernie bros. can you talk about the progressive party and now. >> anger as an emotion in my view is justified. if people are angry, there's a right to be angry. but who are you angry at? it's not a permission structure to be in a jerk in society. we don't sit around saying women are second class citizens and therefore they can't access to

birth control. we demean them and suggest spanking them and tell them you can't have any abortions, which is in project 2025. these are ideological structures on the right meant and intended to punish particularly women but people with whom they disagree. they want to engage in punishment out of anger. our view on the progressive side has long been that the anger is justified, getary at the right people, and punish the right people. that is why we have gotten angry at corporate america. when you look at sean fain and his anger who is directed at? that appeal, in my view, still has more cache, more ability to attract and burr suede people into the democratic circle. >> that's a facts based anger driven by economic hardship, achievement gap and all the rest. there's clearly a cultural element to this rage clearly

fomented by the trump campaign. when you look at how kamala harris has to deal with this in the closing days of the campaign, i don't know if there's any kind of play book for the woman who represents the end of the presidential patriarchy to assuage -- to soothe the hurt of male voters whose, you know, run at the presidency i guess she's displacing. >> and this is -- you know, there's this kind of growing gap between men and women, both a growing achievement gap especially among younger people but also just a relational gap. men and women increasingly can't relate. you see this in the break down of dating, relationships, childbearing. there's this incredible alienation, in which a lot of men feel left behind. and the irony here is that so much of this hostility at least in america was jump started by trump's shock victory in 2016. you know, that was what catalyzed the me too movement,

as women looked around and they saw this self-confessed sexual assaulter had just become president, and they couldn't do anything about it, and they felt this tremendous rage and helplessness, and they started turning it against the abusers in their own circles, in their own industry. and there was this big cathartic explosion that both shone a light on the scale of the abuse but also left a lot of men unsure about what the new rules relating to women were. and so now some of them are going to vote for donald trump hoping to set it right, but donald trump is -- he cannot restore their lost status. he can only increase the alienation. >> well, yeah, and that's kind of -- faz, in terms of a play book democrats should be working from and i would say particularly harris, not that you're second guessing any of the decisions the campaign is make, but the notion of intersectionality is derided,

but that seems to be the only way to both address the concerns that women have about their bodily autonomy, the concerns that men have about their place in society, the considerations of marginalized communities that are fighting for civil and equal rights. i mean that seems like the only way to play this, right, where you're addressing all of the causes and not weaponizing them. >> agree and we continue to make appeals. the thing michelle is saying is an economic fact. the men are graduating college at lower rates than women are, and getting middle class lifestyles at a lower rate women are. that economic feeling left behind is based in some degree of economic reality. but what we have done in the past few years is also reinstill some of what we have left behind, which is working with your hands, in the building trades, building back in america. this is the whole conception of the industrial policy economic back there's a future for you being an electrician, being a

plumber, a pipefitter and hvac repair person. there's a way you package it and sell it as not just policy, but it is freedom, an economic movement. it is thinking about what you are good at and wanting you to aspire to your best life. i think there's more for us to do to make the appeal, not just write you off. the intersectionality to say we want you as young males in this movement and we are thinking about you and have a plan for you. >> that's where i feel like the surrogate game is so critical in this. it's michelle obama who in the last couple of days has been targeting his message towards young men. he's going to have to make that in a way harris campaign can't herself. >> that's part of the reason tim walz was chosen. i think he's correct it can't just be about an identity-based appeal. there has to be some effort to communicate kind of what has been done to actually give you a

greater array of freedom and opportunity. i mean one of the things that really frightens me is god forbid donald trump wins. all this industrial policy joe biden has gotten underway, he is going to reap the credit for because a lot of these jobs joe biden has created have not yet come online, but they're going to quite soon. >> i can't imagine what that would look like i don't know maybe barack obama handing over a great economy to donald trump and donald trump taking credit for it. sell it, democrats. sell it. michelle goldberg and faz shakir, thank you both for your time. >> thank you. when we come back, the inside story behind the trump administration's child separation policy and how it is being used on the campaign trail. nbc's jacob soboroff joins me in the studio next. b soboroff joinn the studio next.

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i was 7, my brother was 5 or 6. we -- they got us -- immigration got us. they took us to this place then told us we were going to be separated, and then we started to cry. >> i don't want this to happen to other kids, and it's sad to see if it's going to happen again. >> the harris campaign earlier this month highlighted the stories of two brothers who are among the more than 5,500 migrant children forcibly separated from their families during the trump administration. today nearly 1,000 of those children have yet to be reunited with their families. donald trump has vowed to pursue even more extreme immigration policies if he's re-elected in just 12 days. joining nee now jacob soboroff, one of the executive producers

of "separated" that tells the full story behind trump's state sponsored crisis of family separations. the film is based off soboroff's book of the same name because david soboroff is the expert on this. and i am thrilled to "a," shine a light on the kitical reporting and the work of this fellm and also the issue, the which hasn't gotten enough attention as we talked so much about immigration. >> i have to say you have talked so powerfully about it and so consistently, and i'm grateful for that. >> well, i mean, it is a crisis. the film is so revelatory because you have voices of people from inside the trump administration sort of narrating for us the just wrenching decisions they have to make to do this. can you talk a little bit more about how it came together? >> i think we all have the same question. we, when i was covering it in realtime in 2018 down at the border, after i wrote the book, you sort of say how could the u.s. federal government do something that the george w. bush appointed judge, one of the most shameful chapters in the

history of our country, the american government of pediatrics called a government sanction of child abuse and said the united definitions idea of torture. how did the united states government do this? and then the great, the legendary filmmaker read the book and said he shared some of the same questions that remain unanswered even after i did that reporting and so many other extraordinary journalists did great reporting and we teamed up to make this movie to hopefully bring some of these questions out into the spotlight at this moment in time. >> can we play a little bit of the film? can we play the one about jonathan white who's the deputy director of the office of refugee resettlement talking about cruelty and guilt? >> if you have children, you

need only imagine your own child in a foreign country not speaking the language with no parent, with no money, not understanding how that society works, having been apprehended by federal immigration authorities. each of these children is your child in that situation. >> it's -- it's quite obvious from these interviews, jacob, that it's been said so many times, but cruelty really was the point. >> there's nobody better at sort of drawing out the essence of all of these people that were involved in the policy. he calls them good bureaucrats and bad bureaucrats. you've got the jonathan whites inside the office of health and refugee resettlement, they warned everybody they could this policy was coming and it was happening. and some of the same people that donald trump is saying are going to come back and run his department of homeland security, sort of immigration enforcement

apparatus. and then you had people like scott lloyd inside the director of orr, a political appointee, constantly in touch with steven miller who usee in the film, basically doing the bidding of the administration. we got here because of bipartisan, democrat and republican deterrence-based, immigration-based policy and why donald trump was like that able to institute an immigration policy. >> the ground work had been laid. >> deliberately, yes. and the we know what donald trump wants to do. he wants to institute the greatest mass it portation in the history of our country which is family separation by another name. the democrats are also talking about concern on immigration. is it one based on a fair, humane, and orderly system as the administration promised? are they going to be able to hold up that end of the bargain

or not? it's different policies, but it's still a system based on deterrence. >> and the overturn window on this as you pointed out has shifted far, far to the right even the rhetoric on it. it's so essential for us as americans, as people who care about the compact of humanity to remind ourselves of the sin committed in our name onto these children. it is an essential feeling. >> thank you. >> people are talking about wolverine vs. dead pool, this is what you need to go see. where is it playing? >> all over the country. we are playing in nine states before election day and have them airing on msnbc afterwards. >> thank you, jacob, for everything you're doing. that is our show for this evening. "way too early" with jonathan lemire is coming up next. georgia, we've got 12 days to choose which way