hospitals and pharmacies. best of all, if you have medicare and medicaid, you may be eligible to enroll in a humana medicare advantage dual-eligible special needs plan right now. so if you have medicare and medicaid, call now to see if there's a plan in your area that could give you extra benefits. a knowledgeable, licensed humana sales agent will explain your coverage options. even help you enroll over the phone. it's that easy. call today and we'll also send this free guide. but now is the time. the annual enrollment period ends december 7th. humana. a more human way to healthcare. good to be with you. 11 days out from the election. i'm katy tur, by the way. we have it, the final poll there "the new york times," and siena college before the election.

are you ready for it? because here it is. among likely voters, donald trump stands at 48%. and kamala harris also stands at 48%. it is well and truly a tie, show thing country is both well and truly divided, and well and truly frozen in that divide. so look a little closer. trump still leads on immigration by a significant amount. and harris still leads on abortion, also by a significant amount. but on the subject of the economy, there is interesting movement. the sort of thing everyone might point to if harris ends up winning. donald trump led on the economy by 13 points last month, he now only leads by six points. look at that. could it be a leading indicator? given these numbers, what are the candidates doing in this soon-to-be final week? tonight, in houston, harris is

going big, appearing alongside beyonce. while on sunday in new york city, donald trump will also be going big, trying to sell out the beating heart of this blue city, madison square garden. both using the unfriendly terrain to generate big attention. we keep hearing trump is a true danger, and it's his own former officials. one of them joins me in a moment later in the show. while trump's rhetoric is getting uglier, last night telling a crowd in tempe, arizona that the u.s. was the garbage can of the world, that is what he said, as "the atlantic's" tom nichols rightly noted, trump is all in on that sort of thing. they want trump to be awful. so will those precious few undecided voters like it, as well? i cannot answer that for you, but i can tell you, one last

thing about those final "new york times" polling numbers, of the 15% of voters who say that they are not fully decided, harris leads 42-32. joining us now, msnbc news washington correspondent who is in houston with the harris campaign. and shaquille brewster, who is in michigan, where trump is scheduled to hold a rally tonight. so texas, with beyonce. just going to say beyonce appeared with hillary clinton in 2016. does she feel good about this appearance tonight? does she feel good about her chances? >> reporter: well, that's a good question. she's continued to cast herself as the underdog in this race. the poll shows this is a tight election. but she is here in houston to make a national point. this isn't about -- i will say that she is trying to rally voters in support for alled who

is trying to unseat senator cruz. but you have big names coming here to underscore the point that reproductive freedoms are at risk and texas is ground zero for these restrictions and there are consequences that have put women's lives in danger. also talking to voters like this. take a listen to what one person told me. >> personally, even as a nonbinary person, as i look at it as i'm a human being, i would rather her than trump, because i looked at both sides. i don't know if you heard him talking, but he's talking about coming at people within. and it's -- i don't know who you're running for, but it's me and everybody that's here today, that's who he's talking about. >> reporter: so there you heard it. that voter telling me that she believed -- that they believe this is really donald trump attacking nonbinary people like them. i should tell you that voters shared with me that they had a

miscarriage, the first time they were able to get access to they think all of the medical needs they needed. but the second time, abortion restrictions were put in place and they were not able to get a dnc, so they had to go through days and days of pain. i was told that they got depressed. so they said they are the kind of person suffering the cops -- consequences of the abortion restrictioning. and the vice president is going to be on stage with men and women who say they've experienced those deadly and life-threatening experiences of abortion restrictions in the state. is that is's the issue that she's running on in texas, and something that she hopes is going to help colin allred, the representative running against ted cruz. she was asked about abortion and what she would do to change the abortion situation in this country just a moment ago. she pointed to colin allred, saying you've got to get more senators in there so the democrats can pass this thing. shaq, i want to ask you about donald trump's rhetoric, things

that he's talking about right now in the final days. that's immigration. i alluded to this at top, but let me play the sound of donald trump talking about america as the garbage can from texas last night. >> they're coming from 181 countries as of yesterday. we're a dumping ground, we're like a garbage can for the world. that's what's happened. that's what's happened. we're like a garbage can. you know, it's the first time i've ever said that, and every time i come up and talk about what they've done to our country, i get angrier and angrier. >> that's tempe, arizona. i want to play a little bit of sound from voters that garrett haake asking about that rhetoric. here's what people at the trump rally last night said. >> he talks like i talk with my friends.

it's very -- >> you don't see that a lot in politics. >> no, no. it's an old guy, but he's a little younger than the other old candidates. >> that's interesting. so he comes off like one of the guys? >> yeah, basically. >> umm, is that what you hear when you're on the campaign trail, talking to people who are interested in donald trump? >> reporter: definitely something similar, katy. in that clip that you played from former president trump, he said that was the first time he used that analogy. well, in this event that he just wrapped up in austin, texas, you can say it's now the second time that he's used that same analogy. he's continuing to dial up the rhetoric, especially on the issue of immigration. you just heard talking about harris who will be on stage with beyonce later tonight. donald trump said harris is going to be with woke celebrities and instead, i will be with the families essentially of those who lost loved ones to undocumented immigrants, or to

crimes committed by some undocumented immigrants. so you definitely see the former president leaning into this message. it's something when you watch his rallies, something probably a little bit different than in 2016 when you were covering him. he stops his remarks to play videos. we saw that twice at events yesterday where the videos highlighted what the campaign calls migrant gangs. so he's leaning into that, dialing it up, a message that you're seeing not just in those sun belt areas that he's been spending time in. but you're seeing that also in these mid western states. the campaign has been signaling once he gets to michigan, it will be more of an economic focus, but you know donald trump will continue to lean into this immigration issue. it's clearly part of the campaign's closing message. >> the republicans have been trying to nationalize the issue of immigration for sometime now, even before donald trump came on the scene. one of the effective tools that they have used in the past few years is the republican governors putting migrants across the border on planes or

buses and sending them off to other parts of this country, including the midwest, places like chicago. shaq, thank you very much. joining us now, director of the university of virginia center for politics and editor in chief of the krystal ball, larry sabinow. how do you look into a krystal ball when it says 48-48? >> well, it's divided in half and cloudy in both parts. so i can't tell you precise prediction yet. we have to have one at the end, because we always do it. polls have told us what they're going to tell us, and that's it's a super close race in the seven states that really matter, that is that are close enough to make a difference in the electoral college, and in the country as a whole. this is surprising to many people this that i think many of us thought that, as trump became trump again, and he's certainly

trump again. super trump again, that the numbers might change. people might get tired of the overexposure to trump. so far that doesn't appear to be happening, although with that tiny group of people saying they're independents and they're undecided but leaning one way or the other, as you pointed out, they're leaning to kamala harris more than to donald trump. that probably is the best shot that harris has. >> there are skeptics out there who say that anybody who says they don't know who they're voting for is probably voting for donald trump, they just don't want to admit it, or they're looking for justification. what do you think of that? >> that's not true. first of all, there aren't many. some people just say they are, because they don't want to get into an argument with family, friends, or even people passing by overhearing them. so that's understandable, i suppose. after all, "the washington post" isn't even endorsing. so a lot of people seem to be avoiding making a decision.

but i don't really buy that, and i think that the vast majority of people who have voted already, and it's an enormous number, i think it's 35 million, somewhere in thatvicinity, versus the people who are not going to vote and are still saying they're up decided, they're not going to vote. it's important to remember that most of these people know very little about politics, and they really don't show up. >> what do you think of "the washington post" not endorsing? they're justifying it by saying they're going to go back to their roots, that they didn't used to endorse. they've been endorsing since the 1980s. "the l.a. times" also not endorsing, causing quite a controversy in that newsroom. there's all these allegations that companies are starting to bend to the, umm, not the likelihood, but the possibility of another trump presidency. do you think the stuff matters? >> it certainly doesn't matter

to voters. look, "the washington post" endorsement or the l.a. times endorsement, if it affects ten people for president, i would be surprised. endorsements do matter for local races, because people really don't know the names and the issues. but for a president, this is a joke. it doesn't affect the voters. but i'll tell you what it does affect is the reputation of the institution. and the former executive editor, marty baron, had some very interesting comments on twitter, some people call it x, i call it twitter, about marty baron and "the washington post," because he went after "the post" like crazy. remember what their slogan was, katy? democracy dies in darkness. boy, that's a good one. talk about irony. democracy dies in darkness. so they decided to go dark for the rest of the campaign, at least editorially. loads of courage out there these days. >> larry sabito, i call it

twitter, too. i'm too old to change my ways. i turn 41 tomorrow. i'm feeling it when i get out of day. larry, thank you so much. joining us now, former chief spokesperson for vice president harris and co-host of "the weekend" on msnbc, simone sanders-townsend. >> i love larry. he's lovely. as you were talking to him, i was very enthralled in the conversation. >> you were taking notes. >> because donald trump, when he posts on the social media site, it now double posts to twitter, and i'm young, but i'm also too old to change my ways. about an hour ago, he said, when i win, those people that cheated will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. long-term prison sentences, he wrote that.

then he said, unscrupulous behavior will be prosecuted at levels never before seen. that is what we're talking about here. so i'm of the belief that, frankly, i think the race is close for two reasons. one, because chief among them, there are people like donald trump, they want what he is offing, despite -- >> they want authoritarianism? >> i don't think they're going to give that. they think when the economy was good. so i think they like what he's talking about, and you hear that from voters on the trail. i also think this race is close because they have not heard everything he says. i believe that voters feel like they know who donald trump is, right? i would argue the last couple of times he's been on the ballot he has not won. so they know if they don't like him, they need to be reminded about who he is. but i don't know if they have heard what he's said, which is why it's important to write down what he put out. this is who he is. this is what we're talking

about. >> let me ask you this, this is the way that -- part of the reason why this campaign has been so difficult to cover, donald trump is saying very clearly who he is. he says he wants to be a dictator on day one. we have all of these former aides, prosecution, prison sentences. he talks about who he doesn't like, who the enemy from within is, how he feels about migrants, as well. immigrants to this country. he talks about huh feels about americans who don't agree with him. because of the -- what he's saying and the former aides, who say he's got fascist tendencies, because of the threat that he is -- that he is to this country, that many people believe he is, how are democrats who are running against this not going around screaming their heads off, we are walking into a dictatorship? we are going to hand over the power. when you read about how this stuff happens, it's not taken, it is handed over.

we walk into it, and then that person just takes control, agency by agency, you know, salami slice after salami slice. >> it's like a frog in a pot of water and you slowly turn the heat up. i do think the democrats are sounding the alarm. there was lots of, you know, hand ringing about president biden, but i would note that his democracy argument when i first sat down with him in 2019, he told me he was running for president because he truly believed that the soul of the nation was at stake. what he was saying on the campaign trail months later, what he was saying at the top of this year, that's what he told me in 2019. >> he didn't talk about anything else. >> but he talked about that often. he did. i mean, that was his whole premise for running for election the first time. he cited charlottesville. he talked about restoring our dignity on the world stage and rebuilding the middle class. in his re-election campaign when

he was on the ballot at the top of the ticket, he talked about finishing the job and that donald trump was a threat. he made the democracy argument. so the vice president, she herself went out and -- look, i used to work with her. i worked for a lot of different -- bernie sanders, joe biden. no one loves to go out and do a presser, okay? because there's work they could be doing. if they're on the campaign trail, they want to talk to voters. i love talking to you. i like coming out there and talking to the reporters on the campaign trail. but the candidates, all the candidates i've worked for, the presses aren't their favorite thing. she did a presser to raise the stakes about what john kelly said. anderson made her case at the town hall. >> there's that aspect of it, but then there's the other aspect of democrats saying this argument about democracy is the people who already believe it, they already are on your side. you've got to talk about the economy.

you've got to give a reason to vote for you beyond don't vote for him. >> i agree. the reason that her campaign has been successful is because she started with the economic argument, right? she started with the economic argument. she said what she -- how she would build on or do differently from joe biden, talked about the things most pressing to the american people. right now it's housing, child care cost, the home care, and now she's coupling that with like, look at what john kelly said. it's like, look. >> and i struggle with the coupling. >> why? >> the reason i struggle with it, if this person is as much of a threat as he's made out to be, and he says he is, then how do you talk about anything else? you debate donald trump, you're legitimizing him. you don't debate a traitor. then you're legitimizing that traitor. he likened donald trump to that.

he said -- this guy tried to overturn the democracy. he wants to do it again. you stand on the stage to him and signaling to the public that there are two candidates worthy of the office. >> i think the media apparatus at large, because the way in which the race had been framed until -- i mean, until recently, people who are treating donald trump like he was a regular candidate, and like he was normal. like we're talking about mitt romney. we're talking about a man that wants to be a dictator on day one. >> you try to say what he says, put what he says out there. simone, really good to have you. i would talk to you for the pull hour. >> i know. you've got a rundown. >> the voices in my head are telling me to move on. we have a lot in the show. still ahead, the plan being hatched to claim the 2024 election was stolen if donald trump loses. we'll show you the army being assembled online to claim trump won. also, another senior

administration official in donald trump's white house is coming forward to say he has authoritarian tendencies. first, the democrat running against the lieutenant governor who once said abortion is about killing children whose mothers couldn't keep their skirts down. how is north carolina attorney general defining himself in the governor's race? he joins us next. e governor's race? he joins us next here you go. is there anyway to get a better price on this? have you checked singlecare? before i pick up my prescription at the pharmacy, i always check the singlecare price. it's quick, easy, and totally free to use. singlecare can literally beat my insurance copay. go to singlecare.com and start saving today.

remember, we are 11 days out now to the election, but in north carolina, more than 2 million ballots have already been cast. that is a quarter of the registered votes in that state, and there is intense scrutiny not just on the race for white house but the race for governor, especially with scandals surrounding mark robinson, including comments on a porn site which he called himself a black nazi. joining us now attorney general josh stein, he's the democratic nominee for governor of north carolina. thank you very much for joining us. i know your state has been through a lot these past few weeks, and it's been tough going down there. first off, there's concern. i certainly have this concern after i saw that flooding in asheville and the surrounding areas, that the people there have a harder time voting. will voting still be possible and easy in the places that were

affected negatively by that storm a few weeks ago? >> the western part of north carolina was absolutely devastated. 25 counties under a state of emergency. essentially, just imagine from georgia to virginia and everything in the western third of the state impacted. and many places in devastating fashion. but here's the thing, voting is already happening in all of those counties. we've been early voting since a week ago thursday. the numbers are encouraging out west. the legislature was in session yesterday, and one of the bills they considered was expanding early voting sites in a couple of the hard-hit counties where there weren't enough voting lowtations. i talked with county managers in the small, rural counties, and they say every early voting site will be open and every precinct will be open on election day. >> there are folks trying to claim that the storm hard hit republican counties and counties

that donald trump was going to likely do well in. and if donald trump doesn't win the state of north carolina, there should be some sort of do-over. it won't be fair because of that. what do you say to that? >> well, most of the counties are predominantly republican, but the two most populous are predominantly democratic. so i think in the end, it will end up being a wash. but i'm not worried about that, because the people of western north carolina are being heard in this election. their voice will be counted in our democracy. and we will see who wins. >> why do you think you're doing so well in the polls? you're up by 14 points. usually it's tighter in the governor's race for north carolina. it was tight for roy cooper in 2016, but he was able to win by a decent margin. do you think it's -- do you think it's your messaging or that lieutenant governor robinson is just surrounded by scandal? >> one certainty is the numbers are going to be much closer come election day.

already i'm seeing a tightening in the polls. that's what happens. elections in north carolina are always close. my election four years ago, i won by four or five votes per precinct across the state. it's just how elections go in north carolina. i'm hopeful that we prevail, and prevail comfortably. my philosophy from day one of this race has been that if the voters really understood who i am and what my vision is, what my experience has been, and contrast that with lieutenant governor robinson, that they would choose our campaign. of course, the election has not happened yet. i'm hopeful that they will make that choice throughout early voting and november 5th. >> i wonder what you think of your opponent. cnn reported that he called himself a black nazi. he said slavery was not bad, i wish they would bring it back. i would certainly buy a few. he said that abortion is really

about women who can't keep their legs closed or their skirts won't stay down. he's referred to muslims as invaders. he's said a lot of outrageous stuff. how is a guy like that at the top of the republican ticket in your opinion? >> i hope because enough voters didn't know how awful his views are. the cnn story just filled with despicable revelations. but there's not a person who has studied this race closely in recent months who needed that story to know that he's singularly unfit to be governor. he shouldn't hold any office of public trust, let alone the governorship. so i'm committed as a north carolinian, independent of what i want to do as governor and what i believe my qualifications are, i'm desperate to win this race, so that man is not my governor, is not the governor of north carolina, is not the representative of the people. you know, we're working our tails off to get that message

across. if viewers want to learn more, help out, do phone calls, contribute, joshstein.org. >> josh -- i mean lieutenant governor, attorney general, i'm sorry. >> hard job. >> what's your biggest priority? what do you want to do if you get elected? >> public education. obviously, priorities have been impacted by hurricane helene. we have to do everything we can to help the folks in western north carolina get back up on their feet. but over the long-term, strengthening public education. we've always been immensely proud of what we accomplished in our public schools in north carolina. yet our republican general assembly is hollowing out public schools in the state. they have dropped us to 48th in the country per pupil investment, which is a disgrace. they have universal vouchers for anybody who sends their kid to private school, $500 million they're taking out of public education to give to

unaccountable private schools. so reorienting the state's commitment to our schoolchildren who are the workforce of the future. we all have a vested interest in their ultimate success. >> attorney general of the great state of north carolina, running for governor, josh stein. thank you very much for joining us. we reached out to lieutenant governor mark robinson to join us on this show. we have not heard back from him. he's not responded. coming up, the army of conservatives working to deny the next election, even before a winner is named. more warnings from people who worked inside the white house with donald trump, what 13 former trump aides, high ranking folks, are saying about him today.

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what he wanted to do last time. he said he had fascist tendencies basically. now 13 former trump administration officials are coming out to say general kelly is right. "we applaud general kelly for highlighting in stark details the danger of a second trump term." they said, we did not take the decision to come forward likely. we are all life long republicans who served our country. however, there are moments in history where it becomes necessary to put country over party. this, they say, is one of those moments. joining us now is former department of homeland security assistant secretary for threat prevention and security policy in the trump administration, elizabeth newman. thank you very much for joining us. >> thanks for having me. >> tell me who trump is. >> dangerous, unfit to serve, and i think he is a -- desires to be an authoritarian.

certainly that is who he admires is other authoritarians on the world stage. he is leading this country, a certain segment of this country, to a very, very dark place. and that's why it's important for myself and for people like john kelly and others to try to issue this warning. you need to take what he says seriously. when he says he wants to be a dictator on day one, he actually means that. he kind of says it in a joking way. he says it in a way that allows people to give him a pass. do not give him a pass. in closed doors, his worst instincts would frighten the average american. he has no -- no humanity, no decency, no respect for just the fact that a human being made in the image of god deserves at least a modicum of respect. and instead is just willing to

toss people aside to achieve his aims. he's very dangerous, indeed. >> why do you think people like him so much, given what you're warning, what john kelly is warning, is there something you believe they're not hearing? >> clearly, people are not hearing it. i have heard some commentary that folks are more concerned about their grocery bills and about, you know, how their kids are doing in school. i'm a mom, i worry about my grocery budget, too. i totally get that. i think maybe we're not helping the american people understand that the reason that we have the luxury to worry about our kids and our grocery bills is because we have freedom. and that freedom is not guaranteed. it's something that every election we have a responsibility as citizens to make sure that we steward that wealth, that we maintain that freedom so that we can worry about those other things that are inherently so important. our kids and being able to serve in our communities, and do well

in life, right? like, that is such a blessing. that is a blessing that comes from freedom. when you have somebody like donald trump, he -- he is posing a threat to that freedom. he's posing a threat to the way of life. and maybe that's why we're not connecting it to people in a way that helps them understand what is truly at risk here. our american way of life, that freedom that we have always enjoyed, at least in our lifetimes, that is actually what we're voting on, this election cycle. from a policy perspective, i would love to get back fighting over policies and debating about the right ways to handle various challenges that we have in this country. but this election, it's not about that. it's about whether he put somebody in office who has the character and competence to take that oath of office, or we put somebody back in who has actually said he doesn't care about the constitution. he doesn't care about employing

the rule of law. they are just constraints to him that he's more than happy to shrug off and kick off and very delighted, in fact, to meet out the worst instincts that we have seen in history, when we put people with those authoritarian tendencies into positions of power, they -- they -- it leads to violence. it leads to destruction, and certainly leads to loss of freedom. >> you were in charge of threat prevention at dhs, and you seem pretty worried. is there something specific that you are worried about if he is re-elected? >> we know from some of the -- both writings, interviews of some of the people that are likely to be in his cabinet and in his administration, that there are plans to -- for example, round up immigrants and deport them. having watched this

administration in an up close and personal way, how they tried to execute any number of things related to immigration, i will tell you that those plans will not have been well thought out. operationally, they will be hahhazard. we're likely to end up with situation where is the national guard will round up people. you will have blue state governors opposing use of the national guard in that way. the insurrection act probably implemented so the national guard can follow the president's orders. you're going to end up, if you think about who the national guard is, these are neighbors and colleagues. they support the national guard usually because they're interested in helping out in a major disaster or occasionally they go overseas and seven during wartime. we're not used to having the national guard get called out to do police functions. that's basically what they have telegraphed they plan to do in

order to do this mass roundup of what they consider to be illegal immigrants. i think that would lead to conflict and violence in the streets. not the least of which will be any number of untold disasters, immigrants that aren't actually illegal being deported, and the humanitarian situation that would be likely to unfold there when you're rounding up a mass number of people and it hasn't been properly planned for. it's likely to be quite catastrophic for those individuals that get caught up in it. that's just one example. we know that -- it's not trump. that's the thing most people forget. like, trump doesn't care too much about the policy. but there are quite a few of ideal logs around him that do. they have their plans ready and they know donald trump will let them use and abuse government power to implement their plans. that's where we're likely to see

some pretty dark incidents in our country. >> i'm thinking about the documentary that was just made about the book about the separation of family -- migrant families and the head of i.c.e. and how he talks about it and what he wants to do if donald trump is elected again. it's worth watching that documentary, definitely. elizabeth knewman, thank you very much. still ahead, what is being done by those getting ready to claim this election was stolen if donald trump loses again, and what union leader shawn feign says kamala harris needs to do to remind working class voters of one thing in particular. don't go anywhere. ng in particur don't go anywhere. (vo) dan made progress with his mental health, but his medication caused unintentional movements in his face, hands, and feet called tardive dyskinesia, or td. so his doctor prescribed austedo xr— a once-daily, extended-release td treatment for adults. ♪ as you go with austedo ♪

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just came down in virginia illegally allowing non-citizens to vote in our elections. [ crowd booing ] the outrageous decision goes against the bedrock of our democracy, and thankfully, the governor is doing a terrific job and working hard to fix this problem. thousands of illegal votes and the judge said that you didn't do it in a timely fashion. this is blatantly un-american and election interference, and kamala harris is behind it very much. >> donald trump standing beside members of law enforcement in

uniform, is making claims about the election, that migrants are voting and kamala harris is behind it is not true. there's never been an election in this country that was found to be changed by illegal voting. it is a myth. but trump and allies are claiming it nonetheless, and they're going online to workshop a strategy to deny this year's election if he loses. joining us now, nbc news reporter brandy. what are you seeing, what's happening? >> well, i have been leaked several videos of these weekly meetings, and they are a bunch of conspiracy theorists posing as election integrity experts. they're in swing states, planning, plotting evidence and building a conspiracy theory in realtime. you see what happened today in virginia was one of the consequences of this conspiracy theory, that a governor says

there are noncitizens voting everywhere. so they purge people for being noncitizens or lying on faulty dmv data. a judge says you can't do that, you're taking real citizens off the roles. put them back on. and then donald trump comes out and says, see what they're doing? it's all in furtherance of this conspiracy theory, and they use it to claim after the election it's been stolen. >> how are they going to do that? they learned from last time, they tried to do it last time. how are they going to do it differently this sometime >> it is incredibly hard to prove that something is not happening. >> yeah. >> so it's got this real staying power. it fits in really well with their anti-immigrant messaging since donald trump came down the escalators. so it's a strong theory in itself. they have injected it into hundreds -- over 100 lawsuits now, so all these lawsuits are going through the courts.

there's no way they will be determined or finished in time for the election. so after the election, should donald trump lose, it becomes, there's all this fraud. we showed you widespread nonsense, don't you see? and that can cause -- we know there are election georgia, we election deniers trying to change the rules there. so that could lead to someone saying we can't certify this election, we can't certify this precinct. and we know what conspiracy theorists can drive people to do. just look at january 6th. >> brandy, thank you. thank you for wading into all this and bringing it to us. appreciate it. the more you know, right? coming up next, what kamala harris's union allies are doing to shore up support where she needs it most. ort where she needs it most.

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daddy's puppy. once we got on the farmer's dog he just attacks it, it's incredible. they're so tuned into you and they have such, such personality. being without a dog, i don't know, can't imagine it. [laughter] it is one of vp harris' weakest demographics, working class white voters. her allies are mounting a late in the game push to help chip away at donald trump's lead. joining us now national affairs correspondent for the nation john nichols. so you interviewed shawn fain. he understands labor unions, the labor vote, that labor leadership is not always in line with leader membership. a lot like donald trump, even though the leader generally

endorses the democrat. what is his message to kamala harris to try and drag those union members who might like donald trump over to her side? >> a lot of messages and one of the things he understands is you speak to different workers in different regions of the country in different ways. at the heart of this, are there issues that might be able to move something. he talked about something that's almost lost to media coverage, and that is that when donald trump was elected in 2016, the issue that drove it, one of the big issues, was trade. >> nafta. >> nafta. and china free trade as well. these things really drove it. and then he went in and reworked nafta. what shawn fain says, the rework was a disaster. >> u.s. mca. >> says it was a disaster for workers and there's the data. now this is something for a lot of folks just looking at politics in general wouldn't

think how can you talk about that in a week? one of the biggest successes of the labor movement over the last 50 years was to teach workers that trade deals are very dangerous, right, that they should pay a lot of attention to them. you have that opening. so the uaw and other unions are doing is saying, this is something we can call trump's nafta, and we ought to, kamala harris and others, ought to talk about this in the final week. >> it's so interesting because, to be blunt, on the subject of nafta, i had to do a lot of homework on it in 2016. i didn't fully understand the nafta agreement implications at the time, and even still, it's a fascinating result nafta was promised to be a big boone for manufacturing, don't worry, we'll send stuff overseas, but they're going to want things from us. it will make everything great. it was a risk or a gamble that turned out bad and we lost out in terms of manufacturing. corporations gained big, manufacturing and unions did not win.

but linking donald trump to the negative effects of that, that's a difficult thing. >> except that he rewrote it. >> he rewrote it. he had the opportunity to make it better. and there's another opportunity coming up. >> right, in 2026. this is what fain is saying, and there is, remember, he's partisan, very much for kamala harris. he's saying what the unions and harris should say, you had your chance and you blew it. you didn't make it better. you made it worse. and there will be debate about that. trump might come back on that. but for union folks, the final week of the election might be a real debate. >> let's see if she talks about it in wisconsin. i always wish i had more time with you. every single time you're on. that will do it for me today. nicolle wallace is coming up with "deadline white house." hit" you could have the power to unlock benefits beyond original medicare. these are convenient plans that offer all of the benefits of original medicare, plus extra coverage and

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