voting from starting and by these people doing their job stay in and day out, we hope and pray it is going to go smoothly. it already has been. over 35 million americans have already cast their ballots across this country so in these final days before november 5th, the election workers are my violent -- mvp. on that note i want to thank again simone, mary, molly and dan. remember you can catch the nightcap again on saturdays at 11:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc but for now from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news thank you for staying up late with us. i will see you at the end of monday. t the end of monday. who, driving into that property-- it just hit me like a ton of bricks, how that was just the perfect place. the perfect place for a murder. perfect place for a murder.

how do you live without her? i mean, your parents are your world. nobody expected a mother of three to be murdered sleeping in her home. and we call the usual suspects. her husband-- they were going through a contentious divorce. you've got a man who's there on the property when she's being murdered. yep. we looked intensely at him. we knew from the get-go we wanted to bring in her sister-- was she involved? there was jealousy and competition between the sisters. we just thought, somebody's going to talk. that is one powerful secret. absolutely. that kind of hits you out of nowhere. i was absolutely shocked. i mean, heartbroken. andrea canning (voiceover): rockford, michigan-- perched on the rogue river just north of grand rapids

is an outdoorsman's paradise. but this peace is fragile, easily pierced by one troubling phone call, the kind of call that often begins a story like this. laura beach: renee didn't meet up with a friend that she was supposed to go to a craft fair with. andrea canning (voiceover): it was a saturday afternoon in the summer of 2006. so this friend called renee's dad, and said, renee never doesn't show up. something's-- something's wrong. andrea canning (voiceover): renee pagel's father jumped in his car and drove over to his daughter's house. what he found inside her bedroom was something no parent should ever have to see. andrea canning (voiceover): 41-year-old renee pagel was dead.

her father tried to make sense of what he was seeing. on his way was detective ej johnson of the kent county sheriff's department. i think he was just shocked, obviously, to find his daughter laying in this bed. andrea canning (voiceover): at first, her father wondered if it was a medical complication. he told authorities renee was recovering from major surgery. the story behind that operation will tell you a lot about her. renee was a nurse, and loved nursing so much she decided to teach it. she noticed one of her students, caitlin salliotte had taken a particular interest in kidney disease. my dad had been diagnosed and had kidney failure, and i just wanted to know as much as possible on it. andrea canning (voiceover): renee learned that caitlin's dad was on a waiting list for a new kidney, and out of the blue, asked for his number.

andrea canning: are you thinking, why? yes. why? why does she want to know this? and she said she wanted to see if she could be a possible match. what in the world were you thinking when she said that to you? total shock. really shocked. i think i ran and called my dad on the bus-- school bus, heading back to my school, calling him and letting him know. you probably have to pinch yourself that somebody would do that. yeah. a complete stranger to my dad-- complete stranger would offer up a part of herself for him. to save him. to save him. andrea canning (voiceover): renee was a match, and the weekend before the surgery was her 41st birthday. her good friend, chris crandle, decided to throw renee a surprise party. we were going to meet at the carnival at 1 o'clock, and the plan was, then, to walk up the street to my house and cool off. she came, and everybody else had taken off and gone up to my house, and gotten everything ready.

and renee and i did a cherry pit-spitting contest together, and i kicked her butt. this must be a michigan thing, right? cherry spitting. yes. [laughter] she walked in my front door. i mean, everyone's waiting in the other room, and she came out-- we totally surprised her. we totally got her, and it was so fun. it was so fun. it was the day before she went in to the hospital. andrea canning (voiceover): renee's daughter, sarah, was seven years old at the time. you might not remember this, but did you realize what a selfless thing your mom was doing by donating the kidney? i don't think i understood until i was a lot older, but after i did, that's something that's really impactful, to realize that was the type of person she was. andrea canning (voiceover): renee's friends remember back then, sarah was aware something scary was happening. sarah had such a sensitive heart, and renee was so concerned about sarah. she was nervous about her mom going into the hospital,

and she just sat on the couch and was just quiet. andrea canning (voiceover): laura beach is a childhood friend who was particularly close with renee's daughter. at the party, renee asked aunt laura to reassure sarah. she called me into the bedroom, and she said, aunt laura, tell sarah that you will watch over me when i have my surgery. and i said, sarah, i promise you, i will take care of your mommy. i couldn't keep that promise. i do remember that very well, you know, because i was really scared. i had no idea what was going on, and she just said, you know, no matter what happens, you have so many people that love you. so she just was preparing for anything that could happen, but wanted you to know that you

were loved and taken care of. i'm sorry. i know how hard this is. andrea canning (voiceover): renee and her husband, michael, were separated, so sarah and her younger siblings went to stay with their dad while renee went in for surgery. four days later, renee went home to recuperate. it was just two days after that when detective ej johnson was pulling up to her house. andrea canning: what happens as you arrive on the scene? i just saw a lot of police cars. everybody was out here towards the road, and they had taped it off just to secure the scene, so that way, no one is in and out. they're going to wait for us detectives to get here. andrea canning (voiceover): officers on the scene told him the deceased woman's name. did you know renee? i knew of renee. we were actually, the past few weeks, praying for a member at the church-- my church-- that was getting a kidney transplant, and she was the one that was donating. oh, wow. so how did you feel when you realized that there

was that connection there? well, i was pretty shocked by it, because the daughter of the gentleman that received the kidney was at my house at a youth activity. they were doing a swim party at my place. andrea canning (voiceover): that's right-- in this small town, where there were lots of connections, caitlin the nursing student was at detective johnson's house as he was responding to the call. what he saw told him right away this was no complication from surgery-- no medical calamity. this was murder. coming up. when i walk into the bedroom, i see renee laying sideways on the bed, and i was seeing blood all over her. just a lot of lacerations and cuts. it's just etched in my mind forever. i ran out of the house, fell in a fetal position-- just screamed. complete shock. i felt almost immediately it was somebody that had an absolute hate for renee. andrea canning (voiceover): when dateline continues.

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use with caution in dogs with aandrea canning (voiceover):. before he ever set foot at the crime scene, detective ej johnson had been praying for renee pagel. she'd just donated a kidney to a member of his church. did you feel right away, just with that church connection, that, i need answers for this family? absolutely, yeah. andrea canning (voiceover): in his call to 911, renee's father had mentioned the surgery as a possible explanation for her death, but he also reported seeing cuts on her arm. when i got up here, i was just told that the father thought it was a potential suicide, but she did have a major surgery. but what happened was, is one of the deputies took a photograph of her, so i looked at that photograph and saw numerous wounds on renee. so i knew it was more than a suicide,

more than a complication. it was going to be a murder. andrea canning (voiceover): the detective went in to see it with his own eyes. renee had been stabbed more than once. when i walk into the bedroom, i see renee laying sideways on the bed, and i was seeing blood all over the bedding. then i started looking at her arms, and then around her head and face, and just a lot of lacerations and cuts. was it just exceptionally horrific? absolutely. it's one of the scenes that, probably, that i've been to that was pretty extreme, where it comes to the stabbing. andrea canning (voiceover): as word spread among renee's friends, they were in disbelief. renee pagel was a respected nurse, a passionate teacher, a generous friend. just a week earlier, chris had thrown her that surprise party. it's just etched in my mind forever. laura called me, and she said-- her words to me were, chris, renee's dead. and my mom can tell you i ran out of the house,

fell on her front lawn in a fetal position-- just screamed. complete shock. i just see it on the news and see her picture-- like, i had seen her just before she left the hospital. and three days later, we find out-- shocking. andrea canning (voiceover): her student, caitlin, could only think of renee's generosity. it's what everyone remembers. sounds to me like she just loved everyone. i know people say this when someone dies, that, oh, they were a saint. she really was like-- she gave, and gave, and the stories that have come out about how she went above and beyond to show kindness, and grace-- i just often say, she was jesus in skin. was she perfect?

no, but she was so generous. andrea canning (voiceover): childhood friend laura beach remembers renee's firm commitment to her christian faith. religion was a very important part of her life-- her relationship with god. it was in her dna for sure. she was leaving for africa on a mission trip, and when renee left, her mom started sobbing and she said, i just don't know where she gets this from. i just don't know where she gets this from. andrea canning (voiceover): joyce schaner met renee in college. day one, we became thick as thieves. first words out of her mouth when i met her is, i can't wait to get married. i can't wait to have kids. really? she told you that on the first day? that was her main goal at that time, and i was like, well, let's just get through nursing school first. (laughs) one thing at a time. yes. we clicked, we talked every day, i drove her back and forth to school, we studied, we spent a lot of time together.

andrea canning (voiceover): detective johnson already knew renee was a well-liked person. now, he needed to put his investigative hat on to figure out who would want her dead. he took a closer look at the crime scene. what are you noticing right away, as far as things that are obvious? it was a brutal murder scene. there was blood on the walls, blood on the lamps, blood on the ceiling, but other things i noticed was a jewelry box with jewelry still in it. i noticed some money on a counter or one of her dressers that wasn't missing, so right away i'm thinking, it didn't appear to be a robbery. did it look to you like renee had fought back at all? could you tell? looking at renee, i could see defensive wounds on her hand-- specifically, one defensive wound that went through her hand. then when you dove more into it, you could see on her-- well, on her heel of her foot, was a large laceration, like she was kicking and she was pushing

away from the suspect. andrea canning (voiceover): the coroner's report said she had been stabbed more than 50 times. someone wanted to make sure renee was dead. this looks personal, the fact that there's that many stab wounds. i felt almost immediately it was somebody that had an absolute hate for renee, a rage that was built up. these stab wounds were from somebody, in my opinion, that really had a deep hate for her. andrea canning (voiceover): but who? the question would occupy the investigators and her friends for a lot longer than anyone could have imagined. coming up, investigators start with renee's soon-to-be ex-husband. she was the worker. she was the breadwinner, and he stayed home, and i know there was a little bit of tension there. andrea canning (voiceover): where was he, the night of the crime? his alibi wasn't exactly rock-solid. no. i mean, you're sleeping in the front room with your kids and your mom's in the back bedroom-- that's not an alibi. andrea canning (voiceover): when dateline continues.

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andrea canning (voiceover): lotiothe investigationmide. into renee pagel's murder was only hours old when the news had to be broken to her then seven-year-old daughter sarah, and sarah's two siblings, joel and hannah. how did you learn what had happened, and do you remember what you were told? yeah, i remember i was at my aunt nancy's house, so my dad's sister's house, and we were just told, like, right there in the living room, that she passed away. wow. did life kind of stop in that moment? i mean, it's definitely something you don't forget. you know, that moment-- like, i don't think i'll ever forget. andrea canning (voiceover): sarah says she isn't even sure when she learned how her mother died. the adults around her shielded her from the details. we didn't realize kind of the situation until we were--

until i was at least around 13, 14. and so it wasn't something that it was like, since she passed, we were dealing with that-- at least in my eyes, that wasn't something i comprehended. andrea canning (voiceover): young sarah didn't understand the circumstances of her mother's death, just like she'd known little about her parents' pending divorce. renee and michael pagel had been separated for a year before she died. we were very sheltered from that. i don't have any bad memories of them when she was together. you know, i didn't understand what was going on at that point in time either, so i never felt like they didn't still love us, and they didn't still care about each other, either. so they were doing good co-parenting. yeah. everything always felt very civil. andrea canning (voiceover): her mom worked long hours, nursing and teaching, so sarah says her dad was more the at-home parent. we all lived on a farm together, and i would wake up at 6:00 in the morning with my dad, and we'd go ride the horses and take care of everything

on the farm. you would sometimes call him a disney dad, is that right? yeah. we liked-- i mean, we liked to go on trips all the time. we'd go to, like, gray wolf lodge, and i mean, yeah. he was a good dad. he loved those kids. i can still hear him calling sarah and hannah his little princess. he would always refer to them as princess, princess. no, he loved those children. he totally loved those kids. andrea canning (voiceover): michael's love for his kids was obvious, and at the beginning, at least, so was the love between michael and renee. what made them a good couple? they both had a very strong faith. he, too, wanted to start a family. they just seemed like they were meant to be. the perfect match. the perfect match. andrea canning (voiceover): but like many marriages, it wasn't perfect for long, and friends say they saw cracks of resentment appear. she was the worker. she was the breadwinner, and he had backed off

a little bit on his full-time work, and he stayed home and was able to play with the kids. and i know there was a little bit of tension there. i assumed the pressure of three small children, and renee was not only working full-time, she was working two extra part-time jobs. so i assumed, you know, pressure of life-- no big deal. you know, they'll get past it. andrea canning (voiceover): but they didn't. and a few months shy of their 10th anniversary, michael had moved out. as the divorce details were worked out, the children split their time between two parents. were you, at that point, sort of going back and forth, i guess, between houses? yeah. and did you ask, like, why are we not all under one roof? i guess that was something i never really asked, specifically. it was just having two houses. andrea canning (voiceover): the night renee died, michael had all three kids with him at his house not too far away.

his mom was staying with them to help out. detectives headed over to talk to michael right away. we knock on the door, and michael's mother, patricia pagel, answers the door. we ask, hey, is michael around? and she says no, he's at a meeting, and she gave us about a half hour or 45 minutes that he'll be back at home. andrea canning (voiceover): detectives didn't say anything to her about renee. instead, they wanted patricia to tell them about the night before. she stated that they had the kids that night-- all three of them. they were just having a bonfire, just hanging out, just doing the normal family stuff. during the evening, the kids were sleeping in the front room having a fort night, or a pillow night, or something like that, where they were all sleeping in the front room, where she said michael slept with them. andrea canning (voiceover): patricia told the detectives she recalled waking up in the middle of the night. she remembers getting up one time during the night and seeing michael sleeping in the living room. i said, well, was there any other activity that you remember, or any other sounds

or anything going on? and she said, yeah, she remembered the door, sometime during the night, opening and closing, and she said, maybe it was for the dog. his alibi wasn't exactly rock-solid. no. i mean, you're sleeping in the front room with your kids and your mom's in the back bedroom-- that's not an alibi. i mean, who knows? you could get up, you could move around, and they're never even going to know. she's sleeping, she's elderly. the kids are very young and sleeping-- you have plenty of opportunity to leave. andrea canning (voiceover): while they were talking to his mother, michael returned home. detective johnson broke the news to him that renee was dead. but because it was a murder investigation, he didn't reveal any details. we're not sure if it was from the surgery or what was going on. i need to talk to you. did you tell him that, being just purposely a little cagey? yes. andrea canning: because you knew it wasn't from the surgery. i knew that, yeah. andrea canning (voiceover): after a brief conversation, police hurried back to the crime scene. for now, there was work to do there,

and another man to talk to-- someone close to the victim, and someone who was at renee's house that night. coming up. you found yourself in the center of a murder investigation. yeah. andrea canning (voiceover): questions for renee's tenant, mike. if you look at mike decker's alibi, it's pretty weak. his alibi is pretty weak. there's nobody accounting for him. there's nothing that says he didn't go next door and do this to renee. he's the only one on the property. we went at him. we went at him pretty hard. andrea canning (voiceover): when dateline continues. money is tight, so we must make sacrifices. i give up my bespoke shaving subscription. and i'll stop ordering everything that's trending on instagram. and i will no longer agree to the add-ons at the oil change place just because the mechanic called me "ma'am." it really is a top-of-the-line filter, ma'am. and of course, we'll downgrade our insurance -to get a lower rate. -well, you know, you don't

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hello, i am christina ruffini. here's what's happening. pop superstar beyonce appeared with kamala harris on friday at her star-studded rally in houston, texas where the vice president aimed to bring

attention back to the abortion- rights issue in a state her campaign has called ground zero for the nation's extreme abortion ban. israel says its retaliation against iran for a missile attack in october has ended. explosions were heard outside tehran. israeli forces conducted precise strikes on military targets in iran. now back to "dateline." to renee pagel's soon-to-be ex-husband, detective ej johnson headed back to the home where she'd been brutally stabbed. the property was still being searched for clues and evidence. there was a curious object discovered by deputies outside-- an orange flashlight, found in the grass behind the house. detective bill marks says investigators had a hunch it had been left there by whoever killed renee. why were you convinced that the killer had dropped the flashlight?

the flashlight-- it was clean. it wasn't dirty. there was no signs that had been outside for a long period of time, so we were pretty convinced that whoever had it had recently left it there. it was in some taller grass, kind of out in a field-- a place that if it was dropped before, you would expect that it would be sun-faded. it would have been rained on, things like that, and we didn't find any of that. andrea canning (voiceover): the instinct would later prove right, but for now, there was somebody they needed to talk to. renee had a tenant, mike decker. he rented an apartment above renee's horse barn. where was he when this murder happened? he was at home. andrea canning (voiceover): --30 or so yards away from renee's bedroom. ej johnson: an apartment unattached from the house. he doesn't have any windows or anything at his apartment. it's just a door with a window facing towards the rear. he said he was home all night, just hanging out, and didn't hear anything or didn't see anything. andrea canning (voiceover): mike decker said he had no idea what happened. but at this stage of the investigation,

everyone was a potential suspect. you were on the property when this happened, so we are going to be looking at you. we are going to be talking to you. and he was getting a little testy, and probably frustrated. did you think anything seemed off with mike at all? because some of renee's friends kind of describe him as odd. well, he was odd. i mean, he was living above, technically, a horse stalls. i mean, it's an apartment, but he was living in this-- he's a grown man. he really didn't have a job. had no relationships that we were aware of. so that is a little odd. it seems that if you look at mike decker's alibi, it's pretty weak. his alibi is pretty weak. there's nobody accounting for him. there's nothing that says he didn't go next door and do this to renee. andrea canning (voiceover): decker agreed to give his dna and fingerprints, and consented to a search of the apartment. the deputies took his computer and three knives for testing. then, as they spoke to family and friends in renee's circle, a story emerged.

renee's sister michelle thought mike decker was interested in renee. there was talk from michelle. she did insinuate that they might have been involved with one another. andrea canning (voiceover): friends also mentioned he was having financial troubles. there was talk from joyce that mike decker wasn't paying his rent on time, or that he was late. andrea canning (voiceover): when they heard all that, investigators asked him to come down to the station for a more detailed interview. it's one of those things that the book is wide open with him, and that you've got to start flipping the pages of, all right, no, this is not the reason why he would do it or wouldn't do it. we want to look at it all. you found yourself in the center of a murder investigation. yeah. not fun, especially when things weren't going very well in your life to begin with. was this a time in your life where you were a little down on your luck? it was one of the lower points of my life. i was downsized out of a job, and then this happened a few months later.

so it added a whole lot of chaos to my personal life. andrea canning (voiceover): a personal life that was being examined in a four-hour interrogation. what do you all talk about for four hours? it reminds me of tv-- the good cop, bad cop, scenario at times. but just, you know, verifying my story. wanted to-- some of those accusations that were false about me, that they wanted to really thoroughly question me about that. you mean, like the romantic connection? and those kind of things there that were so untrue. andrea canning (voiceover): one of the rumors was that renee had turned him down. one of the friends had said something about that you had asked renee out for pizza, and that she didn't want to go, and that perhaps there was something more. yeah, nothing. nothing like that. so it never happened? there was a time, maybe a month before she was murdered, that she was having a stressful time, and i said, hey, let's just grab a piece of pizza.

you know, let's go out there, take the kids, type thing, as a friend would do for someone going through a hard time. andrea canning (voiceover): an offer he says renee never took him up on. investigators also wanted to know about his financial woes, and if they caused any issues with his landlord, renee. i was struggling, being unemployed. it was tough, so working odd jobs there, so i wasn't always paying full rent at time. but i was up to date with her at that moment. was renee-- did she ever get frustrated with you? that, i don't know. i'm sure she did, but she also knew the circumstance that i was in, too, and we communicated. andrea canning (voiceover): at the crime scene, the detectives noted there was no forced entry. they heard he'd been in the house more than once-- another reason to look at mike decker. mike decker was familiar with the home, familiar with the kids, the layout--

you know, he, i believe, even had a key to the home. andrea canning (voiceover): decker said it was true, but insisted that was all above board, too. there were times, if they needed someone to watch the kids, especially after mike moved out, then i would babysit the kids, and watch them for her. apparently renee had told a friend that sometimes you would walk into the house without permission, which got her a little upset. that never happened. kellee koncki, then an assistant prosecutor for kent county, got involved in the investigation early on. she thought decker and his denials needed to be thoroughly investigated. andrea canning: why did you feel that way? because he's the only one on the property. at the time of the incident, we had heard from one or more witnesses that he had asked renee out to dinner, may have gone to pizza hut with her one time, and that was-- there was some inconsistencies on that. you can't ignore it. so we went at him. we went at him pretty hard.

andrea canning (voiceover): coming up. she just would say, i just don't get good vibes from him. and she said, just make sure you stay clear of him. andrea canning (voiceover): bad blood between renee and her brother-in-law. he was supposed to be the best man in their wedding, and he backed out. there was a scratch on his arm that we documented. it jumped out. it was just something that we asked for an explanation for. what are you thinking of bo at this time? it was very suspicious of him. andrea canning (voiceover): when dateline continues. some people just know they could save hundreds on car insurance by checking allstate first. you drive in today? of course not, there's no parking. like you know to check the sign first, before parking. do you hear it? i feel like i do hear it. oh! aww, man. why didn't you read the sign? think you can pay a parking ticket in heirloom tomatoes? yeah, checking first is smart. so check allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds. you're in good hands with allstate.

for a quote that couldandrea canningreds. (voiceover): investigators were suspicious of renee's tenant, mike decker. so police took three of your knives, a full body photo, your computer to search, a buccal swab, footprints, and they searched your car? right. so this is a lot. yeah. you are now a person of interest in this case. how are you handling this? i was labeled as a person of interest, sure, but i had nothing to hide, so you know, i'll cooperate as best i can with them. andrea canning (voiceover): mike answered their questions for hours, and then went over it

all again hooked up to a polygraph machine two days later. andrea canning: did they put you through the wringer? they did their job. i mean, polygraph test wasn't fun. did the police straight up ask you, did you kill renee? on the polygraph. andrea canning: and what did you tell them? no. i didn't. andrea canning (voiceover): he passed the lie detector test, and the more they looked, the less they found. the rumors about their romantic connection weren't true. we found zero to connect him to that murder. we found no motive. we found no reason why he would be involved in this. andrea canning (voiceover): it appeared that he and renee got along fine. she liked mike a lot. mike pretty much kept to himself. he was an excellent tenant, a nice guy. andrea canning (voiceover): in fact renee seemed to get along with everybody. so it was unusual-- alarming, even-- when detectives heard about another man who friends said renee did not get along with.

she just basically told me that she didn't like him, and it wasn't like her to say she didn't like a human being. that was very out of character for renee. andrea canning (voiceover): the man was her brother-in-law, bo pagel. had bo ever said or done anything to renee that was of concern? she just would say, i just don't get good vibes from him. i remember at her wedding reception, she told me bo was going to be there, and she said, just make sure you stay clear of him. renee had told people that she felt very uncomfortable around bo. yeah, we heard a lot of that. he didn't like her, which was another reason to be suspicious of him. he was supposed to be the best man in their wedding, and he backed out, according to the people that we talked to and family members. so you know, there was some bad blood there. when they were married, bo was upset by it, did not approve of renee, and cut off the relationship--

any relationship-- with michael. andrea canning (voiceover): joyce says renee didn't want anything to do with bo. she was afraid of her daughters ever being alone with bo. she never wanted her daughters to ever be alone with him. andrea canning (voiceover): friends say the animosity between the two got so bad that when bo's wife unexpectedly died, renee jumped to a dark conclusion. after she passed away, renee said, i think bo killed her. really? i think bo poisoned her. she said that to you? she said that to me. andrea canning (voiceover): that sure got the attention of the detectives. they drove out to talk to him a week after the murder. andrea canning: what's his demeanor like? you know, he's surprised that we're there, but he wants to talk to us and kind of gives us the same statement of, yeah, i didn't like renee. i didn't think she was right for mike. and at that point, we wanted to get his alibi

where are you at? what were you doing during this time of renee's death? what is his alibi? he was a trucker. he was on the road, and then he goes home, and then in the morning he wakes up and goes canoeing or kayaking with his daughter. andrea canning (voiceover): bo said he was home in saginaw. only two hours away from the crime scene near grand rapids. detectives thought that was plenty of time to make a round trip during the night. what is your gut telling you, as you're talking to bo? i mean, i thought he was a little odd, but again, he was cooperative and willing to talk to us, and we did ask him when the last time he was in grand rapids, because when i was walking around his car i saw a grand rapids press newspaper in there. so i saw the date on there, and i'm like, hey, when is the last time you were there? andrea canning (voiceover): he told them he had been in grand rapids recently, but not on the night of the murder. they pulled up his phone records to track his movements, but-- there was no activity. so again, you know, that phone didn't really answer what we were looking for, other than there was no activity.

so he could have still been over in grand rapids and just not using his phone. or he could have left his phone at home. yep. this is another alibi that's also not rock-solid. absolutely. andrea canning (voiceover): before leaving bo, detective johnson took note of something else-- something suspicious. there was a scratch on his arm that we documented. it jumped out, but it was just something that we documented and asked for an explanation for. andrea canning (voiceover): bo said his dog had scratched him, but what about renee's suspicion that bo had poisoned his wife? investigators got in touch with the saginaw county sheriff's department. the saginaw detectives confirmed her death had been from natural causes, so renee's speculation was off base. there was never any proof of-- there was never any proof of that, no. andrea canning (voiceover): but still. what are you thinking of bo at this time? was very suspicious of him. were you thinking that it's a possibility that bo killed renee? i felt strongly that we had to investigate him, so that we could either implicate him or eliminate him.

andrea canning (voiceover): one of the people in renee's orbit sharing stories about bo was renee's sister, michelle, but as they spoke to the sister more and more, her story would take the investigation in a different direction altogether. coming up. she was so deeply wounded, and so hurt. andrea canning (voiceover): renee's sister and renee's husband. these two were in constant communication. yeah. i was suspicious of that, because they seemed pretty close. andrea canning (voiceover): how close were they? did anyone think that there was a possibility that-- of her having an affair? andrea canning: michelle and michael. absolutely. absolutely. we just came out and bluntly asked her, did you do it? andrea canning (voiceover): when dateline continues do your dry eyes still feel gritty, rough, or tired? with miebo, eyes can feel ♪ miebo ohh yeah ♪ miebo is the only prescription dry eye drop that forms a protective layer

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pete g. writes, "my tween wants a new phone. because breathing shouhow do i notful, break the bank?" we gotcha, pete. xfinity mobile was designed to save you money and gives you access to wifi speeds up to a gig. so you get high speeds for low prices. better than getting low speeds for high prices. right, bruce? -jealous? yeah, look at that. -honestly. someone get a helmet on this guy. xfinity internet customers, ask how to get an unlimited line free for a year. plus, a free samsung galaxy s24 fe. andrea canning (voiceover): when dateline continues andrea canning (voiceover): seven-year-old sarah pagel knew nothing about the murder investigation swirling around her mother's death, but she always knew this.

i guess that i never doubted that she loved me, and i think that's something really important, that i never doubted that either of my parents loved me. andrea canning (voiceover): and as a young child, she felt cherished and protected by the only parent she had left-- her dad. she says she also felt loved by her mother's family. when it came to your mom's side of the family, who did you mostly spend time with? with her sister and her dad. michelle? yeah, michelle, her dad forrest. i'm very close with my aunt michelle. yeah, we have a great relationship, i think. i have no idea what i'd do without her, honestly. andrea canning (voiceover): aunt michelle was renee's older sister. friends said the sibling dynamic between the two had always been complicated. michelle loved the kids. she was always a part of, like, christmases, and i know she went over to renee's a lot, because she did have a good relationship with the kids. but they never did anything just as sisters.

they would never go out to eat or go shopping, or things that maybe sisters would do. andrea canning (voiceover): laura knew the two sisters since childhood. they were so close in age that michelle would have some friends, and maybe they would come over, and then renee would join in, and those friends would become renee's friends, and then michelle would be left out. so i think there was jealousy, and i think there was always thtition between the sisters. andrea canning (voiceover): but as investigators looked into renee's murder, a more recent story got their attention. they found out that in renee's divorce, michelle had sided with michael. they asked her about it. she was blunt about their relationship. it's not like she was trying to sugarcoat anything because her sister had died. she was saying there was issues, and she believed the majority of the problems were from renee. you know, whether she was not being patient with mike, she was expecting too much of mike. she was pointing at renee.

her has just been murdered, and now she's going into details like that? it just seemed like there was not a sisterly connection between the two. andrea canning (voiceover): but there was more. it came to light that during the divorce, renee's husband michael and michelle talked to each other on the phone-- a lot. sometimes, eight hours a day. it was pretty shocking how much she talked to him. these two were in constant communication. yeah. i was suspicious of that, because, you know, a lot of communication-- you know, they seem pretty close. andrea canning (voiceover): renee was not at all happy about her sister's close contact with her ex-to-be. she was so deeply wounded, and so hurt-- so betrayed-- by her sister. did anyone think that there was a possibility that-- of her having an affair? andrea canning: michelle and michael. absolutely. absolutely, yeah. she thought that they had been having an affair. that was her perception, yes, and it took a lot of convincing for me to tell her, no.

i truly do not believe they're having an affair. we asked michelle. we just said, hey, are you having an affair with michael? and she said, absolutely not. andrea canning (voiceover): but the rift between the two sisters was deep, and it bothered their mother. she urged her daughters to make peace. so on the day of her kidney surgery, renee extended an olive branch to michelle. the day i drove renee to the hospital, she actually had wrote this beautiful, poignant letter to her sister. it was basically saying, you know, i want to bury the hatchet. you're my sister. let bygones be bygones. i really want a relationship with you. andrea canning (voiceover): laura remembers the first question renee asked her in the recovery room. i was there when she woke up from her kidney surgery, and the first thing she said to me was, did michelle come? and i said no. and just tears ran down her cheeks. that's heartbreaking.

andrea canning (voiceover): heartbreaking for sure, but to homicide investigators, it was something else. i also asked michelle, did you have anything to do with renee's death? did you do it? again, she denied having any part of that. so we just came out and bluntly asked her. you interviewed michelle multiple times. yes. andrea canning (voiceover): hopes of any reconciliation between the sisters appeared to die with renee. her murder also had a profound effect on sarah and her siblings, who, as children, had a difficult time processing the magnitude of their loss. how do you live without her? and so that was just kind of something that i think i was so young, i didn't really understand, and i didn't really understand the depth of it. but at the same time, it was something that i had a lot of family there, too. do you remember what you missed about her the most when she was gone? i mean, everything, really. yeah-- i mean, your parents are your world.

so losing one was-- i mean, yeah, it was very difficult, but i guess just her being there, was what i missed the most. just tucking you in, or making you breakfast-- like, the little things. yeah. andrea canning (voiceover): just as sarah had been in the dark about her parents' divorce, she had no idea about the rumors of an affair between her dad and her aunt michelle. but investigators trying to solve a murder were very interested in those details. after checking it out, they quickly concluded the rumors were baseless. there was no romantic relationship. there was nothing in the communications that we had to indicate that it was a romantic relationship. more of a friend relationship. in the end, it looked like what michelle really wanted was to stay close to him so she could be close to the children. andrea canning (voiceover): still, they had been hearing troubling stories about michael and the pending divorce. friends said it started with renee being blindsided. she was served with divorce papers

in the middle of teaching. yep. in her classroom? in her classroom. and she actually thought-- she was getting flowers, yes. because it was around valentine's day. how sad. terrible, yeah. it's the complete opposite. it was a gut punch for sure. she said, you know, he had an opportunity to have it served to me after school, or at a different time, but she said, no, he did it right when i was teaching with my class. and he knew how important they were to me, and how he could just embarrass me. andrea canning (voiceover): and it went downhill from there. chris crandle says michael changed as they hammered out the divorce. he would just play mind games with her all the time. tell her they were meeting at mcdonald's and not show up, and tell her that, well, that's your fault. you didn't hear what we were going to do. for what reason? i believe it's called gaslighting. he was the master at it.

he would make her feel like she was the crazy one. andrea canning (voiceover): with the divorce looming, michael, it seemed, could be manipulative-- even cruel-- toward renee. but was this father of three capable of something much darker? coming up. from everything i've heard, he didn't want to work. he wanted to raise the kids, and he wanted renee to support him. yes. andrea canning (voiceover): michael and renee's divorce-- bitter doesn't begin to describe it. he had been told that he was going to have to pay renee alimony and child support, work harder. he was incensed. i mean, he was livid. andrea canning (voiceover): when dateline continues. with vaseline, hydrated skin is just the beginning. level up to even toned, radiant skin. new vaseline radiant x body lotion with 1% niacinamide. level up to even toned skin. ah, these bills are crazy. she

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andrea canning: friends all agreed michael pagel was a great dad who spent a lot of time with the kids while renee worked, but now, they saw his parenting in a different light.

an opportunity to cash in and keep the big house he'd convinced renee to buy. i feel like he had divorce already in works before they bought that house. he was hopeful he would get the house. from everything i've heard, he didn't want to work. joyce schaner: right. - he wanted to raise the kids. joyce schaner: right. and he wanted renee to support him. yes. he specifically went back to school to get another degree so that he didn't have to work. he had himself working part-time and had her working two to three jobs. and so, his plan-- i believe with every fiber in my being-- his plan was to go to court and to have the house, the kids, and $2,000 a month. he had worked to set himself up that way. he wanted alimony. chris crandle: oh, he wanted it. and child support. that was-- he wanted it all. and he believed that he had worked himself into that position. andrea canning: worked himself into that position, renee believed, by not working.

woman: renee even said they base it on your last three years. well, you look back, he's gone part-time or hasn't even worked his last three years. and it was just all part of his plan. andrea canning: in the weeks leading up to renee's murder, things weren't going well for michael in court. this plan didn't go as planned once-- no, it sure did not. --it got into the divorce courts. joyce schaner: no. and the judge told mike, under no uncertain terms, you're going to go get a job, and you're going to work full-time, and you are going to pay child support, and renee is going to stay in the home. and he was incensed. i mean, he was livid. that day renee came home from her court hearing, she told me she had never seen him so angry in her whole life. andrea canning: prosecutors dan helmer and kellee koncki investigating the case-- believe this was a turning point. dan helmer: he had been told that he was going to have to pay renee alimony and child support, work harder, and likely wasn't going to get full custody

of the kids like he-- - or the house. --like he thought of. he filed for divorce thinking, mike's such a great guy, he's going to get x, y, and z. and none of that turned out to be true, and it infuriated him. andrea canning: just weeks after that hearing, renee was in the hospital for the kidney surgery. i was right there when she woke up. and like i told you, she asked about michelle. and the next thing she said, is there a sign on my door that says you cannot enter without permission? andrea canning: renee didn't want michael anywhere near her. woman: and i said no. she said, do it because he's going to try to kill me. he's going to try to put insulin in my iv or something. so i quickly went to the nursing station, and i said, renee wants something put on her door. she's just worried about her ex-husband coming and hurting her. so they did. they went and put a sign right on her door that said you cannot enter.

and i stayed there. i stayed there with her all monday. and when i left, that was the last time i saw her. andrea canning: as soon as she was discharged, renee went to see her kids who were staying with their father. it didn't go well. she called me that night. she was just freaked out. she was so agitated. andrea canning: renee said michael greeted her by tossing their youngest daughter at her. chris crandle: and he said, oh, look, hannah, mommy's so glad to see you. and she held her hand out and said, "mike, stop." and he threw hannah at her. andrea canning: renee said she dropped to her knees to catch her daughter. woman: she was crying. and she said he knew that i had just had surgery and that i couldn't catch her. she said he just wants to hurt me. andrea canning: detectives wanted to talk to michael pagel again. but if he wouldn't answer their questions,

they were about to find another way to know exactly what he'd been thinking about renee. coming up, hidden deep inside michael's house-- we started going through all these journals. the journals are not so complimentary of renee. no, not a bit. andrea canning: what would they reveal? kellee koncki: in this journaling, you do mention your feelings about renee. correct? man: i'm going to instruct you not to answer that question. andrea canning: when "dateline" continues. [coughing] copd hasn't been pretty. it's tough to breathe and tough to keep wondering if this is as good as it gets. but trelegy has shown me that there's still beauty and breath to be had. because with three medicines in one inhaler, trelegy keeps my airways open and prevents future flare-ups.

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ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy for copd the women in renee's circle believed her soon-to-be-ex michael was capable of killing her. and apparently, renee had thought the same thing. woman: she went up to my mom and she said, mrs. stoffy, if i end up dead, you'll know mike did it. andrea canning: stories like this shot michael pagel to the top of the potential suspect list. ej johnson: we weren't completely focused on michael at first, but he definitely was in our crosshairs. andrea canning: in fact, detective johnson had been suspicious of michael from day one, when he and his partner went over to tell him renee was dead. before they could say much of anything, he'd handed them a card for his divorce attorney. we start talking to him about, we would like to talk to him about renee and something had happened to her.

and he's basically saying, yeah, my lawyer stated that i shouldn't talk to the police. andrea canning: michael eventually hired a criminal defense attorney to communicate with detectives. police got a search warrant for his house, but they didn't find anything linking him to the murder. however, they found something else. during the search, a detective tapped on a beam. it sounded hollow. it was. and hidden inside, a number of hard drives was scanned pages of michael's writings. ej johnson: he had a lot of documenting journal-type things with his feelings about renee. we started going through all these journals. the journals are not so complimentary of renee. no, not a bit. he had an absolute hatred for renee. andrea canning: detective marks read a passage from the unearthed journals. "the bitch is such a drain. i am not appreciative for anything, not respected for anything i have done, or i am doing, or i will do. i must terminate with extreme prejudice."

andrea canning: terminate? that sounded ominous. they still had no physical evidence to link him to the crime, but they did have an alibi to pick apart. remember, it was just his mom saying he'd slept in the living room with the kids the night of renee's murder. how do you feel about his mom as his alibi? again, at first, we just-- i didn't want to put everything on michael. so i'm listening. i'm trying to believe her, but also, in the back of my mind, i'm like, yeah, it is his mother, so i'm not quite sure what she's going to say or do to protect or not to protect her son. andrea canning: and investigators saw a hole in the mom's story. kellee koncki: she said candidly, well, i did hear the door open-- the slider-- in the middle of the night about 3:00 am, which we think is, for sure, in our range when she was killed. and she thought it was odd. and there were a couple of times she heard the door that night. and we thought, well, that's the window. andrea canning: a window of opportunity

to commit the crime. they wanted to talk to michael's mom, again. this time on the record. the prosecutors turned to a special legal tool used in michigan called an investigative subpoena. this investigative subpoena process allows us to, in secret, subpoena people by court order, bring them in, and we use a courtroom. and they have to take the stand, take an oath. andrea canning: patricia pagel was served with one of those subpoenas. and the court recorded her questioning. kellee koncki: good afternoon, ma'am. my name is kellee koncki with the kent county prosecutor's office. andrea canning: the prosecutor wanted to know if patricia would confirm under oath that she heard the sliding door open and closed that night. kellee koncki: did you hear the dog being let out at all-- patricia pagel: no, i didn't. no. you hesitated. any reason? pardon? kellee koncki: now she's saying no, that wasn't correct. i don't remember saying that. i know that the dog went out, but i saw mike.

she put him there. did you hear anyone open or close the slider or anything that sounded like the slider once you went to bed? no. i guess, i did not. certainly, you could hear that slider if it opened or closed, wouldn't you think? did i hear it? you know, i cannot say right now. i don't know. she gave him no opportunity to not be there. so now she's covering. andrea canning: finished with patricia, a few days later prosecutors used another subpoena to call in michael for questioning. through his lawyer, michael said that certain topics were off limits-- the divorce, his relationship with his wife. if they didn't agree to his terms, he would plead the fifth. and then you get nothing. i have nothing. and i agreed only because what choice do i have? do you remember if you got up at all that night? no. kellee koncki: no, you didn't, or no, you don't remember? michael pagel: no, i didn't. do you remember if the children woke up at any time during the night that night? no.

do you remember if your mom got up for any reason that night that you were aware of? michael pagel: no. andrea canning: the prosecutor kept at it. and kept getting very little. you've already told me that you were not at-- at or in renee's home either on the 4th, which is a friday, or the 5th, which is a saturday, at any time. that's correct. no doubt about that. michael pagel: no doubt. and did you kill her? no. did you conspire to kill her with anyone else? no. kellee koncki: did you have any knowledge prior to learning that she was dead through the police that she had been killed? no. has anyone admitted to you that they killed her or knew who killed her? no. andrea canning: how was michael's demeanor in the questioning? dan helmer: i don't think he ever struck me as somebody that, divorce or not, was going above and beyond to try to help find who killed the mother of his children, his wife. never was forthcoming. never was-- it was almost like pulling teeth to try

to get anything out of him. andrea canning: prosecutors brought michael back two weeks later to ask about the journals discovered by police. it's my understanding, you're not going to answer any questions about-- you'll take the fifth regarding the journaling that's on those hard drives, is that correct? man: that would be my instruction to mr. pagel. kellee koncki: when he came in, he acted very cooperative. but when you went to questions like, well really, didn't you for years write in your journals and diaries that you hated her? you wanted her out of your life? you wanted her gone? he wouldn't answer it. you've confirmed, when i called it journaling, that there's journaling on one or more of these hard drives by yourself, correct? michael pagel: correct. kellee koncki: in this journaling, you do mention your feelings about renee, correct? man: i'm going to instruct you not to answer that question. so what is your response? "i assert the fifth," is what you should say. michael pagel: i assert the fifth. kellee koncki: did we think we were going to get a confession from him? no. but i think we had to lock him into a story, so then we could work on pulling

it apart if it wasn't true. how he acted was suspicious. like, he acted like he was covering. like he wasn't comfortable with what he was saying. things like that. but you can't charge on suspicion. andrea canning: prosecutors didn't have enough to charge michael pagel. and despite all the red hot suspicion, the case was growing ice cold. months turned into years, sarah was growing up largely oblivious to the police investigation that had centered on her dad. did you worry all these years about the fact that your mom's killer was walking free? i mean, yeah, it's something that i think everyone would worry about. and wondering, who it was? wondering, what happened? but it was something that as i got older, it really felt like there wasn't ever going to be an answer. andrea canning: but renee's friends were determined that wouldn't happen. coming up, that orange flashlight found in the grass

is about to become a crucial new clue. this is the smoking flashlight. kellee koncki: yeah, it kind of is. yeah. andrea canning: and was someone finally ready to talk? chris crandle: he sent me a friend request. i just sort of freaked out. he's reaching out to me again. andrea canning: when "dateline" continues. with bugs, the struggle—is—real. that's why you need zevo traps. zevo attracts and traps bugs 24/7 using a blue and uv light with no odor and no mess for effortless protection. zevo. people-friendly. bug-deadly. let's review. okay. we're not gonna talk about traffic or weather. if anyone brings up lawn care, i will handle it. hosting can be extremely difficult for young homeowners turning into their parents. oh, are you done with this? i'll just take that. okay, he's still drinking. right.

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visit coventrydirect.com. sarah says growing up, her family didn't talk about the murder.

but her father, michael, did talk to them about renee. sarah pagel: he talked about the good times, and how we were similar and our senses of humor and like, how i loved christmas and things like that. and it wasn't-- it never felt like it was hostile. it never felt like there was any sort of reason like you couldn't bring her up or you shouldn't talk about her. that was never the atmosphere in our house. andrea canning: did you feel like he did the best he could, raising you? yeah, i do. were there any milestones that you would celebrate about your mom? her birthday. when we were younger, when we lived around here, we talked about it. it was like flowers. we did that kind of stuff really with her side of the family. we spent a lot of time with them growing up. andrea canning: friends remembered renee too, at get-togethers and vigils. woman: the kindest, most wonderful person i've ever met and probably will ever meet. andrea canning: but mixed with the good memories was a profound and growing feeling of anger. woman: my prayer is for him to come to a place

of confession and repentance. there was zero-- zero-- doubt in my mind. let me make that absolutely clear, zero doubt in my mind that mike pagel did it. i was so angry because he had taken my best friend. and yet, he got to be free. and it was, it was very hard. andrea canning: joyce carried a sense of guilt about the night renee was killed. joyce schaner: she desperately wanted me to spend the night with her that night, so that i could go to an art fair with her the next day. and i couldn't. and i feel so terrible that i didn't pick up those signs. would he have killed me, too? or would i have deterred him? i don't know. i mean, it goes through my head all the time. i don't know. andrea canning: as time went by without an arrest,

renee's friends did everything they could to keep the case alive. putting up posters, flyers. we had a remember renee night once a month. i met with media. you wanted justice for renee, and you weren't going to stop until you all got it. i did want justice for renee. i did want that. andrea canning: susan samples reported the story for years at the nbc affiliate in grand rapids. there was outrage when no one was arrested. and everybody knew it was the husband, but they couldn't make the case. from a news perspective, it was a huge story, of course. but as the years went on, people's interest goes elsewhere, to some degree, in the news. but her friends wouldn't let us forget it. andrea canning: and they wouldn't let investigators forget, either. detective johnson remembers hearing weekly from chris, like it was her job. ej johnson: chris crandle would call you and say, hey, what's going on with the case?

i just felt this passion inside of me to fight. and people would say to me, chris, you just need to stop. you just need to let the police handle it and step back. andrea canning: but that, she couldn't do. instead, she set up a facebook page asking for tips to help find renee's killer. a facebook page saying, who killed renee pagel? i mean, she has been her own little private detective and zealot you over the years to keep the case alive. andrea canning: in her mind, michael was the only suspect. and she was fearless in calling him out. yeah, hello. on the website, we called him the only suspect. i did multiple interviews with local media and made it very clear. andrea canning: chris and other friends started mailing michael handwritten cards with verses from the bible. chris says he didn't appreciate getting scripture through the mail. i mean, he could say, hey, you're harassing me. chris crandle: well, his family came against us. i was never afraid. it's like, if you want to come after me

for harassing you by sending you scripture cards? because you know what, buddy? i really might be the only person on this planet who really does care about where you spend eternity, truly. and i am sending him scripture cards so that he will see the truth. where is his eternity? right now, unless he comes clean, he's going to hell. that's what my bible says, and i believe it's true. andrea canning: michael pagel and the kids left rockford, eventually settling in saginaw away from prying eyes, scripture cards and news reports. sarah pagel: i moved around a lot as a kid. and it was always something i never-- it made it hard to find a home with that kind of there. so yeah, it took a while to really understand what they were doing. andrea canning: as a young teenager, sarah became aware of the internet campaign against her dad. what kind of toll her to take on you? i mean, it was definitely difficult.

it really prevented me really from talking about my mom to my friends. because i didn't want any questions. and if anyone looked anything up online or their parents did, then it would be my dad's face there. and so when stuff like that would come out, it was very hard. andrea canning: assistant prosecutor kellee koncki had never forgotten this unsolved murder. kellee koncki: this case, it never went away. i always wanted to work this case again. i knew there would come a time. my boss was ready to open one of the cold cases. he asked me to look at them and decide which one. and i just always wanted to solve pagel. andrea canning: 12 years after her murder, investigators dusted off boxes full of evidence and reports. it was 2018, and bill marks was the new lead detective. bill marks: we really try to start with from a fresh perspective. we wanted to start from the beginning and not focus on any certain person. we took a step back. we looked at every single person who was involved in the case, everybody that was named.

and really tried to work through each one of them individually and see if they could possibly be a suspect. anything with the evidence that jumped out at you that maybe had been missed? nothing initially. andrea canning: but then he spotted something that warranted another look. bill marks: as we worked through it, we did find an orange flashlight that was thought to have been tested in the past and wasn't. andrea canning: the orange flashlight investigators discovered behind the house the morning after the murder. it would take eagle-eyed assistant prosecutor dan helmer to make an interesting connection. get this, in an old evidence photo of michael pagel taken at his house, helmer noticed a very similar flashlight in the background. but this one was blue. you did a little investigating. and it turns out, these flashlights have something in common. dan helmer: they came in a two pack that year, one of which was an orange and blue combination, which is the colors we had. and the batteries were actually

from the same lot number. this is the smoking flashlight. dan helmer: yeah, it kind of is. yeah. what was important for us is it puts mike there either that night or right around there. and he had no reason to be at that home. no reason. andrea canning: it was an interesting piece of the puzzle, but still not enough for an arrest. with her online posts, chris was still asking, who killed renee? and one day, out of the blue, someone wanted to talk to her on facebook. it was michael's brother. chris crandle: bo, he sent me a friend request. and i saw it, and i just sort of freaked out. i didn't respond to it. slept on it. the next day, he's reaching out to me again. andrea canning: could it be that bo had information about the murder of renee after all? coming up-- so bo just cracks this case wide open. yeah. i had to hold myself down. andrea canning: that is one powerful secret

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at the same time, her close friend, chris, got a message on facebook from michael's brother, bo. chris hadn't met the guy, but she knew he and renee never got along. and that bo had been looked at as a potential suspect. now, out of the blue, he wanted to talk. andrea canning: unbeknownst to bo, police asked chris to record the conversation. and she sure did. right from the start, he made it clear, he was calling to talk about his brother. andrea canning: what did he say to you? well, he just said mike was starting to lose it. andrea canning: chris quickly cut to the chase. i said, so why are you calling me? well, something needs to be done. and i said, well, i agree. i mean, you know what i believe.

andrea canning: bo said his brother michael had turned on him. andrea canning: chris steered the conversation back to the information she needed. andrea canning: bo sounded very

much afraid of his brother. andrea canning: next victim? bo was all over the place. did he know something or not? next victim, it's a big statement. andrea canning: once investigators played the tape, they wanted to talk to him under oath. prosecutors sent him an investigative subpoena. kellee koncki: at any time prior to the murder-- let's start with that-- did mike ever say or do anything to indicate that he wanted to kill her? wanted to hurt her? bo pagel: i don't think so. i don't-- i just-- kellee koncki: do you remember that, mr. pagel? bo pagel: yeah, i'm trying to think. i just don't-- i just don't talk in those conversations, or i don't-- kellee koncki: what does that mean? i don't-- i just talk about other stuff. bill marks: the body language just wasn't saying the same things that his mouth was saying.

it appeared as if he had more to talk about. andrea canning: prosecutors sent him home and two weeks later asked him to come back. bo comes in for a second interview and just cracks this case wide open, like the grand canyon. yeah, i had to hold myself down. like, not get too excited. andrea canning: prosecutors granted bo immunity in exchange for his testimony. and this time, he had a story to tell. with an audio recorder rolling, he remembered a day back in august 2011. it was exactly five years after renee's murder. andrea canning: a couple of beers in, michael started talking about his marriage to renee, and how it had gone bad. they came to a bridge and michael told bo to pull over.

andrea canning: and right then, holding the knife in his hand, bo said michael revealed what he'd done. andrea canning: there was no doubt in bo's mind, what he meant. he said it was clear, michael had killed renee.

andrea canning: that is one powerful secret he was keeping. absolutely. andrea canning: still, there was more to bo's story. andrea canning: once the murder weapon disappeared in the creek, bo said his brother turned to him with a threat. andrea canning: bo said he went to see their mother, patricia, right away.

bo's explanation for staying quiet for so long was not just that he loved his brother, but that his mom had asked him to not say anything while she was alive. she knew about the murder. for sure. yeah. andrea canning: so why was he finally telling the story? well, their mother had just died six months earlier. he had kept his word to her, but now said he wanted to get this big secret off his chest. andrea canning: the truth? investigators would have to corroborate bo's story, looking for evidence that was never meant to be found. coming up-- bill marks: there's a knife on here. it was exactly as bo described. that's unbelievable. andrea canning: was this the murder weapon? we were confident, we had the right one. andrea canning: and could it lead to an arrest at last? i was absolutely shocked. i mean, that's the last thing i thought i would hear.

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a lot of shards. day two? bill marks: day two, we collected everything from car parts to home stereos. andrea canning: so you went back for a third day. bill marks: the third day, we were just about done, the last few passes. this was the end of the search. bill marks: yes. i started pulling back the magnet towards me, and it go hung up on something. stuck really strong. andrea canning: one of the divers finally wrestled it out of the water. bill marks: i still couldn't see it because it's all black and all the metal, rusty. there's a knife on here. wow. bill marks: there was no doubt. it was exactly as bo described. that's unbelievable. it was amazing. andrea canning: you're about to go home and call this off, and there it is at the-- literally, at the last minute. and not only that, it was right under your nose. yes. andrea canning: literally, under your nose. probably in the area that we were standing at some point. andrea canning: bill texted the picture of the knife to the prosecutors. i couldn't even describe what i was seeing, i was so shocked. all i could do was show the boss a picture. and it was amazing.

it was entirely consistent with what we knew from the medical examiner's report was used in this. we were confident, we had the right one. it matched the drawing that bo had given us. the description was identical. andrea canning: now, they had enough for michael's arrest. and after all these years, detective johnson, now lieutenant johnson, wanted to be the one to do it. we've put a lot of time and effort into this. and when the time comes to arrest him, i want to be there. bill marks: have a seat. i go to mike, i place my cuffs on him, and put him in the back of the car. but i did take a nice picture of him prior to me leaving and sent it to chris crandle. i see ej johnson's number show up on my phone, and i answered it. and he says, you know how they say god is good all the time? god is good? i said, what? tell me. and he said, guess who i have in my back seat? and i said, you are kidding me. he sent me a picture of him in his back seat.

woman: i remember, i was teaching, chris called me, and she said, "you will never guess who is in the back of ej's car." and i remember, i just started crying. and my teacher friends had really embraced me over these years because they knew what i had gone through. you can't even describe how relieved you are to finally have this moment that you've been waiting for, for 13, 14 years, of a man that's been out there walking free that killed his wife, mother of his children. andrea canning: the news of michael's arrest had a different effect on those children. his daughter, sarah, was now 21 years old. now, you're not seven anymore. you're able to really process it this time. so what's going through your mind? i mean, at first, i--

i was absolutely shocked. i mean, that's the last thing i thought i would hear. and it really felt like it was out of the blue. i mean, that kind of hits you out of nowhere. it was very hard to process, at first. and until i could really talk to him, it felt like i had no idea what was going on. but i-- yeah, it was-- definitely, it was very difficult. andrea canning: did you think, not my dad? go find the real killer. he or she is out there. of course. you never want your dad to be the one behind everything. and obviously, i was thinking like, yeah, there has to be another way. there has to be something else. like, there's something missing here. andrea canning: sarah went to talk to her father in jail. what did he say to you? he just said everything's going to be ok. and we talked about everything that we need to figure out. did you ask him, dad, did you do this? no. have you ever asked him that?

no, i've never felt the need to. andrea canning: was there a part of you that thought for a moment, he did this? or i think he did this? i think, i thought now that he's arrested, there's something there. so maybe if it goes to trial, he's found innocent, then we can just finally, actually go on with our lives. andrea canning: but it wouldn't turn out to be that simple. just when you think this story is over, it isn't. the biggest bombshell of all drops in your lap. yeah. yeah. andrea canning: coming up, michael pagel speaks, and he's got a whopper of a story-- kellee koncki: mike pagel says, i didn't kill my wife. andrea canning: do you have to investigate to be sure that the real killer isn't walking around? absolutely. andrea canning: --when "dateline" continues.

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sarah pagel was bracing for a trial. her father accused of killing her mother. did you think, my dad doesn't have the temperament to kill someone-- sarah pagel: yeah, absolutely. andrea canning: --or to take our mother away from us? yeah, i absolutely thought that. andrea canning: but one email from michael's defense attorney changed all of that. michael wanted a shortcut.

kellee koncki: he reached out to us and said through his attorneys, early on before our preliminary hearings, said, hey, would you be interested in making him an offer? and we're like, what? that was a surprise, also. andrea canning: before responding to michael's attorney, prosecutors met with his children. they wanted to know how they felt about letting their father take a plea, instead of going through a painful, public trial. we did not want to make any kind of offer or even consider an offer. in fact, if it wasn't for those kids, we would have made no offer. we would have tried him and god-willing, the jury would have seen the truth, and he would have gone away for life without parole and died in prison. but the fact is he does have three lovely children who are impacted by this more than anybody. andrea canning: for sarah, it was the first time she heard the evidence pointing at her father's involvement in her mother's death. they explained the evidence they had. they explained how they got it. they were definitely in a difficult situation representing my mom and justice for her, but also, knowing that we were the ones that were suffering

because of my dad's actions. and so putting him in jail was doing good by my mom, but also, hurt us immensely. but they wanted us to know that there was two different mike pagels at that time. he could be an amazing father to you, but then, be capable of something evil. yeah. andrea canning: and how do you deal with that? this is just, i mean, i have no words. sarah pagel: it was difficult, i mean, absolutely. and i talked to him maybe an hour after the plea deal. i mean, yeah, it was a difficult conversation. andrea canning: did he apologize to you? yeah. i mean, absolutely. what was the biggest question you had for him? i guess, why? what did he say?

i don't feel comfortable answering that, sorry. andrea canning: michael pleaded guilty to second-degree murder with a prison term of 25 to 50 years. at his plea hearing, he told his story. andrea canning: and then his confession took a sharp turn.

mike pagel pleads guilty, but says, i didn't kill my wife, my brother did. andrea canning: it was quite a story. a bombshell dropped onto what was supposed to be a closed case. the only trouble was, no one believed it. bill marks: when we got to court and listened to him tell this story about how he had hired his brother and his brother is the one that actually killed renee, there was just a-- a level of disbelief, a certain amount of, kind of, disgust. like, come on, really? do you still now have to investigate to be sure that the real killer isn't walking around? absolutely. we spent weeks and weeks digging into all these claims that he made, but we never found

anything at all that pointed toward bo being involved. andrea canning: bo denied any involvement in renee's murder. and investigators concluded michael had acted alone. it's really despicable that he couldn't take accountability. man up, tell us what you really did do. it certainly is going to make life a lot easier for those of us trying to move forward, trying to find forgiveness, if you could just bloody, tell the truth. andrea canning: did you believe his story, that his brother had helped him? like i said, it was something that i just decided to remain neutral on. andrea canning: for sarah, it was a lot to absorb. even with her father changing his story, michael had admitted he wanted her mother dead and was going to prison for her murder. how did you leave that conversation feeling after you had spoken to your dad? it's a conversation that, like, almost no one has with their parent. i mean, heartbroken. andrea canning: yeah.

and did you-- did you tell him, i will stand by you? i said, i forgive him. andrea canning: you forgive him. because you still have a relationship with him, right? yeah, i do. how are you able to keep that intact? i think, he was always my dad. i never saw that side of him. and even if that was something he did, that's-- i mean, everyone deserves to be forgiven. and it was something that he apologized. he sincerely felt like he knew he made a mistake. he knew it was the worst thing he could have done to us and for us. and he knew that, and he admitted that. but that doesn't take away the fact that he's my dad. i think growing up with a single parent, you really hang on to the one that you have. and i wouldn't want to lose him for anything.

andrea canning: at his sentencing five months later, michael addressed his children. i ask god to forgive me and give all-- give us all the strength to endure the consequences. sarah, joel, and hannah, your mom loved you very much. and would be very proud to see how well her children have grown. andrea canning: sarah wrote a letter to the court. i just wanted to get across that he wasn't just the person who was involved in her death. he was the one that raised us. and the people that we are today, we are because of him. it is a very difficult situation to understand being the one in the middle of both sides of that story. and it's something that i think only we can really understand. and so no one has passed judgement on that. andrea canning: the friends who fought so long and hard still feel the loss of renee. woman: a beautiful person was taken from--

from this world. joyce schaner: when she died, i genuinely, truly felt like a piece of me died, as well. andrea canning: sarah says the committed effort by so many to solve the case is a testament to her mother's character. sarah pagel: she had a beautiful personality that clearly speaks. i mean, so many people care about her today and the efforts that our friends put in over the years. while i kind of felt like collateral damage of some of that, it was for her, and it was for justice for her. and i understand that and appreciate that. and i think that speaks to the type of person she was. [music playing] hello, i'm andrea canning, man: there was a party. there was a uk football player that had been shot. he's killed on his birthday. and i was like, it's who?