of folks but in my opinion, it should not be that big of a shock. these next 10 days are incredibly important. >> as always, thank you for making time for us. colin allred is the democratic nominee . i should mention, we have reached out to the incumbent senator to invite him on the show and -- wait for it -- we did not get a response. that does it. catch me here tomorrow morning from 10:00 a.m. to noon. "velshi" is available as a podcast for free wherever you get your podcasts. stay right where you are. the katie thing show starts right now. katie thing show starts right now. i'm katie phang live from telemundo studios in miami, florida. here's the week that was. >> let's get back to normalcy. let's get back to actually respect -- >> how big arnold palmer was. are you kidding me?

>> i notice palms are sweaty, knees weak, vomit on my sweater already. mom's spaghetti. >> he calls it the weave. donald, come on. we know there's only one weave that you know anything about and it is not this. >> he commented more than once that, you know, that hitler did some good things too. >> is there any part of you that subscribes that a pardon could help unify the country and move on? >> let me tell you what's going to help us move on. i get elected president of the united states. >> it's time for america to sing a new song. are y'all ready to add your voice to the new american song? because i am. with just ten days left

until election day, it's full steam ahead on the campaign trail for vice president kamala harris and donald trump. and while more than 36 million americans have already cast their votes, today marks the first day of early voting in california, new york, new jersey and michigan. the great lakes state is where we find both candidates today with trump set to speak at a rally at any moment. this evening though the vice president will be joined by former first lady michelle obama. it comes after a busy friday where trump left rally goers in michigan waiting for more than three hours while he taped a podcast with joe rogan. as vice president harris held her largest campaign event to date with a crowd of 30,000 in houston, texas featuring the queen herself beyonce. joining me now, cofounder and ceo of the amazing seneca

project and former florida congressman david jolly. two of my favorites joining me and getting us started today. let's start with that harris rally in houston last night. david, you know, it was a huge emphasis on reproductive rights and the idea of individual freedoms. it was an emotional rally with a lot of the speakers talking about direct impacts, direct impacts on their lives. but importantly the message that if donald trump gets elected again he will go for a national abortion ban. do you think emotions are going to actually persuade those still on the fence? >> look, i think for vice president harris if there's a singular policy issue that's going to turn people out it's this. we've seen it in every ballot test since the dobbs decision. i believe seven out of seven times when this issue is at the forefront, democrats judgment outperform by wide margins. on the policy issue, you have

the natural reproductive freedom that merges perfectly with this idea of protecting democracy. without protecting the fundamentals of democracy you can't protect reproductive freedom. on the question of democracy we'll see i believe tuesday night when vice president harris speaks at the ellipse this overarching argument she needs to make and she is making about protecting democracy. katie, i think the most gettable voters down the stretch are soft republicans who are still undecided. certainly you need to turn out all the verticals. black men, black men, the gettable persuadable voters that remain are soft republicans who need to be reminded about the danger of donald trump and persuaded to vote for vice president harris. >> you know, tara i was in austin down the street from me was donald trump doing a three hour podcast taping with joe rogan. again, i understand david's point, but i -- and i think a

lot of voters that maybe are still waiting to make a decision, they may be trying to get some substantive policy from donald trump. it is lacking. the only platform that man has shared is that america is a garbage can so far. your thoughts about him going to a podcast with joe rogan made sense for somebody like donald trump. three hours was just the weave he seems to be skilled at doing. >> you know, it's clear that donald trump and his campaign made the decision that they're going to go after the bro ocracy. that has been the vibe. apparently they think it's going to work. you see the way they disparage women. donald trump even this morning was tweeting away about how abortion doesn't matter any more, women will be fine. you know, they don't care. jd vance said women don't care about abortion they care about normal things. i'm sorry, excuse me, women are voting at a record number in early voting in three states that we know of so far.

three pretty important states like georgia, michigan and now north carolina. normal things, i'm sorry, but normal things like our lives, our healthcare, whether you trust us to make decisions about our bodily autonomy, about our families, about our futures, about our daughters, those are normal things. so donald trump going over to a hypermasculine bro-fest with joe rogan is par for the course for him. he thinks he's going to get more voters out to vote for him. they're normally low propensity voters. good luck with that. if you look at the contrast between donald trump and his approach and where he was yesterday, and what kamala harris and her campaign is doing, even just look at forget the women for a second. we run a womens organization, but we also appreciate our male allies. you look at the men who have stood up next to their wives, next to their sisters and their mothers who are protecting them and speaking out about the

outrageous trump abortion bans and what this has meant for them, especially in a place like texas. you look at the ryan hamilton's of the world. you look at amanda's husband. these are men that actually love their wives, not the joe rogan type of men that despise women. that juxtaposition i think is really important for people to see, which is why we made an ad called hope about ivf from the dad's perspective. no other organization has done that. to david's point, you need to talk to these suburban women and their husbands. because that dad or daddy- daughter relationship is one of the most powerful, most persuadable relationships in politics. and that's why we wanted to focus in on that as part of our closing message to talk to that constituency as well because every vote is going to matter. >> let's be clear, it's not the daddy-daughter relationship that tucker carlson was talking about. david, there was something of the 36 million early votes, 53% were women. but i wanted to point this out.

you know, joe rogan two years ago said donald trump was a threat to democracy. two years later we see him doing the podcast interview with donald trump. but something that struck me, david, is the fact that donald trump still cannot produce evidence of election fraud from 2020. even though donald trump is already preparing to claim when he loses that there was election fraud. and yet joe rogan pressed him and he couldn't get an answer from donald trump on that. >> that's exactly right. and let me just plant a flag for girl dads for harris. that is a real thing. that is exactly what you all are talking about. but this issue, and it's really unsettling to see this particularly down the stretch. hopefully for undecided voters. the notion that donald trump couldn't acknowledge to joe rogan that he lost 20920 election. among these gettable voters that vice president harris is reaching out to. we saw it at the convention. we'll see it this week. come be a part of our coalition

to defend democracy. i have a hard time understanding why people are still undecided. these soft republicans who can listen to mike pence and john kelly say this man is dangerous please take our word for it, our traditional national security republicans were telling you he's dangerous and then we get to hear this week that donald trump is still denying the 2020 election and he will contest this election. if he loses the electoral votes on election night or the days thereafter, this will go to january. donald trump will contest this again and put our nation through what we went through four years ago. i don't understand why these voters are still undecided. i believe vice president harris' closing message is going to focus on those voters to say you can't go back. you cannot go back to donald trump. i think it's a convincing argument. >> and, you know, tara something that happened was the washington post refusing to do an endorsement. refusing to do the thing.

it's disheartening to see people sitting on the sidelines. your thoughts about whether or not the billionaire bros club is actually putting their finger on the scale of this 2024 election. >> oh, without question. it's obvious in a lot of respects. not just this one. the malpractice and cowardice of the washington post and the legacy of that newspaper in this moment right now is really unspeakable. how irresponsible because these billionaire bros are worried about their bottom lines. as women in particular, we don't have the option to opt out. we don't get that. you know, our lives are at stake. our democracy is at stake. we don't get that option. but they are going to opt out of this now? it's shameful. and you look at this not only from this perspective but also the infusion of money. what elon musk and peter thiel and all of these guys. i mean they're even putting -- there's this new pac out that's

trying to convince republican women that ruth bader ginsburg and donald trump were on the same side of the abortion issue. $20million was infused into this super pac at the last minute because they know this is a crypto neat issue for them trying to compare the two saying they were on the same side and she agreed it should go back to the states. they just did that this weekend as a hail mary because you know they're desperate and worried about women saying we're not going to go back. we're not going to put up with this. no, you're not going to do that. like you said in early voting, women are the majority in early votes. this is a lie. they are dishonest. they are degenerates and they don't care about us. they only care about themselves. and they certainly don't care about womens lives and the fact that women are dying because of trump's abortion bans and that even republican women are uncomfortable with that and are going to vote on that issue because it is about freedom. they are trying to put their thumbs on the scale. that's why it's so important for organizations like ours and others that we get that truth out there to make sure because we tell the truth, they don't.

they're liars. we tell the truth and i think women are going to see through that as long as we can keep getting that information out there to them on platforms like these and we're so appreciative of that because women are going to save this democracy. that's what we're convinced of. let's do t ladies. >> i know david jolly will not disagree with you. womens bs meters, they're bar none the best that exist. it's good to see you tara and david. thanks for getting me started today. i appreciate it. >> thank you. and now to some breaking news. we're watching out of the middle east. israel says it has completed its retaliatory strikes on iran after last night's launch of quote, precise strikes on military targets. it did not hit any oil or nuclear facilities. a senior official in the biden administration telling nbc news they were not expecting any further direct military exchanges between the countries. coming up next, modern mass crew linty.

a deep dive into some male voters fascination with fascism. the deepening crisis within american society as some men increasingly feel as if they're going to be left behind. keep it right here for this amazing conversation. amazing c good, real food is simple. it looks like food, it smells like food, it's what dogs are supposed to be eating. no living being should ever eat processed food for every single meal of their life. it's amazing to me how many people write in about their dogs changing for the better. the farmer's dog is just our way to help people take care of them. ♪

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it's called man enough. what makes you qualified to be a part of that conversation and have a voice? >> um, the same thing that makes you the most qualified to have a conversation about whiteness. that you as a black man understand whiteness far more than i understand it or justin can understand it. >> what a great answer. >> and it's not to say it's your labor or your work, but you actually can teach us way more about it because you have had to deal with it every single minute. when you're the oppressed group you know everything about the oppressor. you know things they don't even know about themselves. >> what she said. ten days out we're hearing that inexplicably so many male voters are wavering between the choice of a convicted felon and a qualified woman who also happens to be the current vice president of the united states. let's talk about it. joining me now is that brilliant woman you just saw

liz plank ms nbc columnist. you've been doing the hard work. you've been traveling across our country talking to men about their fascination with fascism and masculinity in general. what are they telling you? >> such a good question. such a good segment. thank you, katie. yeah, i've been traveling across swing states. i'm pretty much on the road until the election. one thing that's clear is their shift to the right is not because they're uncomfortable with womens place in society. it's actually because they're uncomfortable with their own. a lot of men -- we've changed the definition of what it means to be a woman. it's fundamentally changed. a lot of men are lost about what it means to be a man in that structure. in that society. and you have people like donald trump who are exploiting those confusions and those fears. and those are really fears that are rooted in real things. if you just look at the data i mean the average male wage is the same now than it was in

1970. but the reason for that and the policies that continue that kind of disparity are the policies that trump basically advances. donald trump is interested in giving tax cuts to his friends, elon musk made the most money than any other person on earth while trump was president. and so the economic agenda, we need to be very clear here that donald trump is failing the men he claims to be championing. >> so liz, last night vice president harris had a few words for the men at that rally, take a quick listen. >> men across america do not want to see their daughters and wives and sisters and mothers put at risk because their rights have been taken. i see the men here. and i thank you. the men of america don't want

this. >> i mean, liz, it doesn't have to be the bro culture we see of the tucker carlson donald trump type of mantras. i think of somebody like tim walz. he's successfully threaded the needle of turning the idea of masculinity on its head by showing a deep empathy but still being the coach, the dad, the hunter, the military veteran. >> yeah, totally. you know, tim walz uses his masculinity for good and donald trump exploits it for his own gain. can we talk about masculinity. trump is putting on a performance of masculinity. he's not actually masculine. this is a guy who spends more time with his makeup artist than with his own advisors. but even setting aside he probably wears more makeup than kamala harris, masculine men aren't afraid of women. masculine men don't have meltdowns on stage because a woman they didn't like asked them a question they didn't like. masculine men aren't

manipulated by people who give them compliments. at this point donald trump is putin's side chick to put it very bluntly and simply. and, you know what, men, masculine men actually protect women. they don't enact abortion bans that endanger women. so even based on donald trump's own definition of masculinity and if you want hypermasculinity of being a protector of women, donald trump is failing at his own definition of it. and this sort of i don't know, masculinity eras tour he's on where he's talking about a dead golfer's manhood, where he's blowing kisses to hulk hogan, to your point this is a performance. actually trump is not a very mass you masculine man. >> our friend wrote a piece for the ink that echoes your sentiments. he referenced you in the piece. john kelly warned in the

starkest terms that trump is a fascist with a real authoritarian vision and confirmed the murmurs about trump being jealous not to have the kind of generals that hitler did. the distressing thing is a majority of american men are looking at this and saying yeah, let's do that. a lot of what a lot of men are going through is simply the inner experience of the old line when you're accustomed to privilege it equality feels like oppression. i mean, liz, you're talking to these men. is that what is going on? >> you have basically donald trump and jd vance appealing to mens worst version of themselves. the fascist, the dominating, the okay we're just going to burn it all to the ground because i'm not getting what i want. and, again, some of this dissatisfaction that men are feeling is really rooted in a real suffering. and it's not unique to men but it's definitely affecting mens ability to be providers. their core identity as men.

and then you have the other side tim walz and kamala harris who are offering a very different vision. i think this election is showing us that we are at a cross roads. we do need a positive new vision of what men can be and what men need to be able to see that. and they have the ability to make this choice in this election. i think that men can have a very central, very important role in protecting women, protecting children from predators. from people who do not have our best interest at heart. i think that we need to be clear that the most masculine thing a man can do is vote for a woman. >> and protecting from predators like donald trump. liz plank, thank you so much. i invite everybody tuning in, go check out liz's substack. they are amazing. coming up after the break, closing arguments looking ahead to vice president harris' final remarks on the ellipse this tuesday and how her final

warning about trump's fascism is landing with the last of the persuadable voters. we'll break that down coming up next. next.

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as we close in on election day, there's one number you're going to hear over and over again. 270. that's the number of electoral vote as candidate needs to reach in order to win the presidency. where does that number come from? why doesn't the candidate who gets the most votes win? everything you need to know. >> it is the most unusual college in the country. >> the he toke college is almost as old as the country itself. but it's been constitutionally challenged by some estimates more than 800 times. >> the electoral college is a vestige. >> you need electoral college which is much tougher than the popular vote.

>> the electoral college is a system where americans to not vote directly for a presidential candidate. rather each state get as number of electors appointed by political parties. electors choose their states winning candidate. quick history lesson. in 48 states and dc, the candidate winning the state's popular vote gets all the states electoral votes. the number of electors for each state matches the sum of its senators and representatives. >> each state shall have an equal vote. >> it started as a compromise between our founding fathers in 1787. >> there was the fear that democracy could lead to mob rocksy and that you would have what some people would call majority tyranny. >> then there was slavery. >> you saw slave states trying to not count slaves as people but then trying to have it both ways by having them partially count sod they could increase their population numbers. >> the founding fathers gave states the power to appoint electors. >> the office of presidential

elector. >> today the united states has a total of 538 electors. a majority of 270 votes is needed to win the presidency. usually the candidate who wins 270 also wins the popular vote. but not always. like in 1876 when rutherford hayes lost the popular vote but won by one electoral vote. or in 2016 when hillary clinton lost despite beating donald trump by nearly 3 million in the popular vote. >> america is a country of 330 million people been we shouldn't be hanging on the votes of a few thousand or even a few hundred people. >> jesse wegman argues against the electoral college. >> almost 5 million votes the average margin. we have these elections that appear superficially closer. >> supports the electoral college. >> more of a very persistent devils advocate. changes to electoral institutions are notoriously

unpredictable. though you change the architecture of the system, you change just about everything else. >> both agree a change to the electoral college would not come easily. as of april 2024, 17 states and dc are leaning toward the popular vote. adopting the national popular vote interstate compact which awards all electoral votes to the winner of the majority. still for the upcoming election, the founding fathers electoral system remains and so too does the contention. that's the electoral college simply explained. >> it's always important -- >> they said it's not american to challenge the election. this is the most corrupt election. we fight like hell. if you don't fight like hell you're not going to have a country any more. >> that was of course donald trump's rally on january 6, 2021 at the ellipse mere steps from the white house as he challenged the results to a free and fair election with no

proof and no evidence of election fraud. now nearly four years later kamala harris will be at that same location on tuesday to deliver her closing arguments to americans just one week before most voters will head to the polls. this move comes as nbc news reports that harris is leaning into a final message that'll be centered on attacking donald trump as a danger to america. hoping to win over undecided voters and to motivate her very motivated base. joining me now is senior advisor and senior spokesperson for the harris-walz campaign. adrian, it's good to see you. i appreciate the symbolism of selection of the ellipse. it shows that vice president kamala march are its is drawing a stark contrast with the lawless donald trump on january 6th. what can you tell us about the vice president's closing arguments as they're being called to the american people? >> yeah, i mean katie, you just really laid it out there. this is a very symbolic moment. she's doing this at the very

place where donald trump had the worst day of his presidency january 6th where he incited an insurrection. she'll be giving a speech there talking about her new way forward. really making that contrast. letting the american people know, especially those voters who still just want to know a little bit more about what the vice president stands for, what she's fighting for in this election. that she is fighting for them. she is fighting for the american people. she is fighting to lower costs for middle class families. she's putting the american people first. donald trump, again, katie you laid it out there. he stood on the ellipse on january 6th one of the darkest days if not the darkest day of the history of our country, and she's going to talk about her new way forward. she's going to talk about how she's turning the page on donald trump. she really does represent that generational change so many americans are looking for. it's going to be quite a moment. and i certainly hope that everybody will tune in because especially those who are still,

you know, just wanting to get a few more answers on what the vice president's plans are how she's going to fight for them. she's really going to lay out that message in her speech and she's going to lay out that contrast. she's really going to make it clear she's someone who will be fighting for every single american, even those who didn't vote for her she'll be fighting for them as president. >> adrian, last night's rally in houston, vibrant, big, more than 30,000 of her supporters cheering and showing their hope for a harris presidency. in a deep red state like texas that number is outstanding. kamala harris putting a strong focus on reproductive rights and individual freedoms regardless of what political party you are a part of. at the same time, we see donald trump truthing on truth social that abortion is no longer a major issue for americans? >> i mean, katie, who believes that? nobody believes that. i mean it is a major issue for americans. all you have to do is look at the 2018 midterms, obviously that was still when roe versus

wade was part of our legal system. that was the law of the land. it was still an issue that americans cared about because they weren't sure what donald trump was going to do. he made it very clear he didn't support abortion then. and then of course he put three supreme court justices on the court that ultimately overturned roe. so we saw this play out in the 2020 election. we saw it play out in the 2022 midterms. something that is very top of mind for millions of americans and especially top of mind for a lot of swing voters out there. not just democratic women. not just republican women. but men as well. you know, amanda zurowski who is, you know, spoken about her own reproductive health challenges as a result of roe being overturned. her husband is one of the best allies out there talking about the importance of supporting reproductive rights and having the freedom as women to be able to protect those rights. it is not going away. i don't -- i mean, trump is just making this stuff up because he knows it's an issue that is very toxic for him.

and he's trying to say that he's what did he say the father of ivf. nobody believes that. but it is our job on this campaign, it is the vice president's job to make sure that every american understands the difference between the way she will protect women versus the way donald trump will not. it's something we're talking about. it's something that will be very much a part of our closing message and it's something that will make a big difference in the lives of americans if she becomes president. >> thank you so much for being here. always good to see you. >> thanks, katie. coming up next, an un- american tragedy. the heart breaking new documentary reminding us of trump's barbaric family separation policy that ripped thousands of migrant kids from their parents arms and what has promised mass deportation operation could look like if he were to win again. keep it right here. it right h

we now know this was right from the get go. someone must have been planning this. >> a federal judge says the government needs to reunite young immigrant children with their parents. >> we had 14 days to reunify all of the children under 5. >> their assessment form in the system doesn't have that much information. what's your mom's name. mom. like every mom, their name is mom. >> do i call this child abuse? do i call it torture? >> separation was the purpose. prosecution was the tool. >> that was a clip from the

trailer for the new film separated. the documentary directed by errol morris tells the story of the zero tolerance immigration policy in donald trump's administration that resulted in over 5,500 migrant children cruelly separated from their families at the southern border. now six years later over 1000 children still remain separated from their loved ones. and if reelected donald trump has not ruled out returning to that separation policy, in addition to enacting more extreme border policies and antiimmigration tactics. joining me now is an executive producer on the film and the author of the book of the same name. it's an honor to have you on the show. the book we mentioned documents your own experience after you witnessed in real time the horrific conditions of the separated children. talk about how this film came to be. >> yeah, katie, thank you for having me as well. it's an honor to be here. of course i covered this policy

in real time. i can remember the dates. june 13th, 2018 i went inside the 250,000 square foot former walmart called casa padre where they were holding young boys 10 to 17, most of them had been deliberately separated from their parents by the trump administration in order to hurt them to keep other people from coming to the country. june 18, 2018 i went inside the epicenter of the policy at the invitation of the trump administration. the processing center. even after i saw it with my own eyes what a judge appointed by george w. bush called one of the most shameful chapters in the history of our country i still had questions about how this could happen in the united states of america and so i wrote the book. errol morris the oscar winning film maker read the book. we decided there were still more questions to ask and to be answered. particularly at this moment as we consider the direction of immigration policy, not just for the next four years but the next generation. so we teamed up to make this

movie with nbc news studios to make this an issue that no candidate, no political party can afford to avoid talking about. >> you know, jacob, this film gives an inside look at that policy through interviews with members of trump's administration. what insights could anyone share with you about how anybody thought there was decency to what was going on to something that's been called government-sanctioned child abuse. >> that's right. that was the american academy of pediatrics that said that. positions for human rights which won a nobel peace prize said this met the united nations definition of torture. i don't think even people on the inside of the trump administration wouldn't say this was an attempt at decency. they knew what they were doing. what you see through the remarkable interviews through his signature device where he puts people in front of there just like he did with donald rumsfeld or the people in the middle of the scandal you see

right into their soul about what they were thinking and why they were doing it. so for members of the trump administration you heard about efforts of the administration to institute this policy. from civil servants who tried everything they could to stop the policy. you hear about every twist and turn about how they pushed back. and really i think most importantly you hear about how this could very well happen again, which is why i'm in chicago today. we have a q&a at the chicago film festival tonight. it's in ten states before election day and before our airing on msnbc after the election. we want to continue to talk about this. frankly, this chapter of american history is not over. it's possible something like this could happen again. >> i'm glad you bring that up. this is such a critical time for people to be informed. we want high information voters going in and making decisions in ten days. donald trump promises the largest mass deportation in united states history. his first administration i am confident laid the groundwork foundationally to hit the ground running if he actually

makes it back into the oval office. how important is it for people to watch this film and understand that this is something that happened on american soil? >> i mean, look, i think it's important for people to see this film. as many to see this film as soon as possible. to have a really an understanding of not just donald trump laid the groundwork for what he might do in a second term. the largest deportation. look at dr. william lopez's work. that's just family separation by another name. democrats and republicans over many decades really a generation instituting bipartisan deer terrence based immigration policy that allowed donald trump like that to separate 5500 children from their parents in order to harm them. we're seeing a more conservative turn back to immigration by the democrats. certainly not family separation and not mass deportation, but that's why in this moment in the days leading up to the election and the moments after

the election we have to really consider what american immigration policy is. is it about a problem that needs to be solved or is it about humanity and looking at people not as data points and as numbers but really as human beings that are coming here from it all over the world. so many people over so many generations have to the united states in search of a better life. how are we going to talk about them and frankly welcome them and make policy around that. >> jacob, you're incredibly busy. i'm grateful for your time. i urge everybody to not only read your book but to make it a point to watch the film. it's now showing in select theaters around the country. we'll put up a qr code about how to get tickets to jacob's film. thanks for being here, as always. beyond the big lie. how and why politicians lie. why republicans seem to do it more than anyone else and the unique danger it poses to our teetering democracy. that's coming up next.

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so there's an old joke, how do you know a politician is lying? the answer, because their mouth is moving. if that's the case then donald trump gets the many, vp award because he's taken it to a whole new level. one that continues to damage our country. in his new book beyond the big lie the founder of the fact checking website writes donald trump is the nation's most prolific and damaging liar. trump sun match. he not only has a dreadful

record himself. he normalized lying in the republican party. members of congress and a frightening number of state and local officials have adopted his disdain for the truth parroting his false talking points, repeating the big lie. joining me now is bill adair, professor of journalism and public policy at duke university. creator of politifact and the author of this new book. why republicans do it more and how it can burn down our democracy. it's not hyperbole. that title gets to the meat of it. you write the following. it's time tole visit lying to be a key attribute that's discussed in campaigns. a politicians score with fact checkers. if they get a lot of false ratings they should be asked about it. journalists should mention their record in candidate profiles and opponents should bring it up during debates.

amen, bill adair. i check donald trump's score. it's abysmal. 19% pants on fire. 203 claims. i mean you guys that are tuning in from home, you can see that on the screen. bill, those numbers are abysmal. do voters really care if trump appeals to their emotions because people sometimes they listen to their emotions and not to facts. >> i think we need to try to change the debate a little bit here so that we get people to care more about lying. you referred to that old joke and i think in the past we used to look upon lying as something that was not consequential and it is now. it matters. lying matters for things like climate. lying matters for things like public health. things like immigration. we can't have a substantive debate about these issues because there is so much lying.

and as i say in the book, there is far more lying from the republican party than there is from the democratic party. which is something that my colleagues in the news media have unfortunately not talked about. and that's why i raise it in the book. i think it's really important we face this. that we acknowledge there's so much more lying from the republican party. and that we try to do something about it. >> well welcome to the katie phang show where we call out the lies. if your book you talk about how most americans want their presidents to project moral authority. me too. you want them to steer the nation in the right direction if they're your leaders. i thought this was fascinating. you said how could he lack a moral compass? i asked dodes about trump's internal justification. trump lives and lies for himself in it everything he does. he's like a predator who exists to feed his own needs and nothing else. dodes goes on to say it's being

part of a sociopath or psychopath. it's one part of what makes him different from other human beings. i wouldn't let somebody who is described like that walk my dog let alone lead the country. are the experts, put aside the media, are the experts doing the most they can do to emphasize why this is such a critical consequential election in november? >> i think they are, but i'm not sure it's being heard by all of the country. one theme in so many chapters in my book is this divided america. that so much of america is getting their news and information from filtered sources. from partisan media. from social media. they are not hearing the same things that everyone else is hearing. so that's what really concerns me. we are existing in two very

different worlds increasingly. and that's, i think really troubling. >> bill, i got less than a minute. i agree with that premise. we do live in separate ecochambers sometimes. you're also a journalism professor. what's it going to take for us to get back to old days of journalism when the op-ed section was clearly somebody's opinion and it wasn't seemed to be factual? >> well, i think interestingly we need more fact checking. particularly by conservative outlets. conservative outlets have rejected fact check and instead have attacked it as being something from the mainstream media. i would love to see more conservative outlets do what the dispatch which is a great conservative outlet has done which is to hire their own fact checkers and show that facts matter whether you're on the right or the left. >> well, bill adair, we echo your sentiment. more fact checking is great.

thanks for being here and everybody go out and read bill's new book. it's pretty amazing. thanks for being here. >> thanks for having me. >> before we go quickly, a point of personal privilege. i'd like to wish my beautiful daughter charlotte a very happy birthday as she turns ten years old. now she doesn't look like that any more. may be a double digit birth day but she'll always be my little girl. happy birthday to my charlotte. and i also want to thank all of you for joining us today. you can catch me back here next saturday at noon eastern. remember to follow us on social media using the handle. you can catch clips on youtube and you can listen to every episode as a podcast for free. scan that qr code on your screen to follow now. but don't go anywhere. msnbc reports with alex witt is coming up next. coming up next. come on, man. congestion? nah, i'm good. spray goodbye to tough congestion.

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reliable 5g, plus wifi speeds up to a gig where you need it most. xfinity mobile. now xfinity internet customers can buy one line of unlimited and get one free for a year. from msnbc world headquarters in new york. welcome, everyone, to alex witt reports. we begin with decision 2024 in the home stretch with just ten days remaining in the race for the white house. both sides laser folksed on battleground states today with michelle obama in michigan on this first day of early voting today. tim walz in arizona. also today, president biden,