>> they are people who have never, in the past even talked about politics, because they believe that the military should be above politics. but the reason they are speaking up is because they have seen that, in donald trump's mind, the military does not exist to serve the constitution or the american people. he doesn't see being commander in chief as a solemn, sacred responsibility. just like everything else, he thinks the military is his to

do his bidding, to serve his interest. he said if he is elected, he will use that military to go after, quote, the enemy within. which he defines as anybody who criticizes him or refuses to bend the knee. he can't handle that. and unlike last time, unlike the first time, he won't have people like john kelly around to stop him. he will be surrounded by people who are just as loony as he is. and he will let him do what he wants. >> a brand-new interview with the washington post, general john kelly is warning of chaos if trump tries to do what he is saying he's going to do and use american troops against americans on u.s. soil. to use the u.s. military in terms of domestic law enforcement is not the american

way. the fear is, he will tell them to do something illegal, and that's a really bad thing to do. and then you have generals resigning, and very possibly within the ranks, you have people refusing to do it. these guys are going to follow the law. it's not some neurotic hypothetical. he actually did want to do it in to try to do it in his first term. once again, from the washington post, as protest swept the nation after the murder of george floyd and some writing broke out in washington, donald trump demanded in a white house meeting in 2020 that 10,000 troops deployed to the u.s. capital. this was seemingly pulled out of thin air as he sought to counter any perception that he was weak. the incident prompted a in the trump administration that

address the president's demand. active-duty soldiers in the streets. the man we've been talking about if the defense secretary in this instance. esper writes about it in his book. at this point, even if we are wrong, i want active-duty forces quickly available to the president. we have managed to keep them out of the district so far. guard forces were now flowing into d.c. and healthy numbers, but i decided to send all active-duty units home. i did not inform the white house about these decisions either. i could not trust that they would not reverse my decision. the threat of and understand donald trump acting on his autocratic plans looms over the final 11 days of this presidential campaign season, and it is where we start again today. here the table, new york times investigative reporter mike schmidt is back.

host of nbc's politics nation and president of the national action network, the reverend al sharpton is here. also joining us, msnbc senior analyst, the man i, human xanax because it is read on polls, matt dowell, is here. former counsel kevin cal is here. he signed a letter work backing the warnings against donald trump along with other former trump administration officials. thank you so much for being here. i am really grateful to get to talk to you and understand more of what you saw on the day the donald trump referred to veterans who have given their life, people like john kelly's son, as losers and suckers. >> i remember that day very well, nicole. it was memorial day of 2017. i had gone to section 16 to decorate the graves of some fellow men who i knew, and i saw the presidential limousine leaving. i saw john kelly standing over the grave of his son. and i went over with my own son

, and he was visibly upset, which is not usually the way he presents himself. i asked what was wrong, and he shook his head no and said he didn't want to talk about it. and my son, was perceptive enough to see that this stranger was upset, he asked him if you'd like to say a prayer. and my son and kelly held hands and said some hail marys over his son's grave. right after we got out of the administration, i was talking to general kelly and trading stories that we had both seen. and he mentioned that trump had said over his son's grave, what was in it for him? what was in it for these men that they gave their lives for our country? i said, was at the time i saw you at arlington and you are upset? he said, that's exactly what it was. it was shocking and disgusting coming from a commander in chief. >> the story about your five- year-old son just about does me in here.

what do you think and feel about a five-year-old having more empathy and understanding of service than donald trump? >> you know, anyone has more empathy than donald trump. he is just an ill man in that sense. and it is part of the reason why trump despises the military. he doesn't want to use the military because it is trained and equipped to do these missions that he is considering having them do because he wants to drag the military into the gutter with him. this is a man who lied during the vietnam war. this is a man who, despite his family being financially comfortable, as children do any kind of service after 9/11, much less uniformed service. and the lack of empathy is exactly one of the reasons why trump should not be allowed to be commander-in-chief of the united states. he's going to abuse the men and women under his command and order them to do illegal things to other americans that he has specifically named. sitting members of congress such as adam schiff and nancy

pelosi. he wants the active-duty military to somehow take care of. it's a bizarre statement. military justice doesn't apply. what is he suggesting? that they use force against congress? it is just absolutely a disqualifying statement for a presidential statement. >> you have some insight into the conversations happening behind the scenes among generals about what donald trump would do if re-elected to men like general millie and secretary mattis ? >> yeah. my understanding is the other general and retired flag officers are extremely concerned. you know, their strong preference to stay out of politics, he looked to be example of people like to generate in the army or the fleet admiral who didn't even vote. presumably they supported fdr and truman, but they didn't even vote. there was no appearance of partisan politics. that way i think you are not

going to see them come out and make any endorsements, because that cuts against the grain. but they are seriously concerned that if he is elected, trump will, for example, order general millie to be returned to active duty and prosecuted under article 88, which criminalizes the use of contemptuous words against the president and other elected officials. that would be, you know, a gross abuse of legal authority, but you know, there's a statute and a regulation that they could use to try to do that and they are very afraid he will do that. and he would just come i would say, if they start having political prosecutions by the military of retirees who have gravely and inappropriately spoken out against the president. >> mike schmidt, and hearing the last couple of days of rhetoric from trump, i wonder if people -- you know, when you hear kelly's warnings about trump, it feels like it's about trump. i sense for the last couple of

days of talking to kevin is, is it is as much about what he would do to the institution he reveres, the active-duty troops. can you talk about those concerns he has? >> i think -- this comes back to why kelly decided to speak out. kelly has obviously had a long period of time to come forward. there's a lot of people wanted to hear from him. he put out a written statement a year ago, but up until this point, and not really done much certainly in the election cycle. over the summer, he tried to engage him on this and try to get him to answer these questions, and he told me to get lost in his way. so what it was, what changes kelly's mind, is what trump says just a couple of weeks ago. when trump says that he wants to use the military domestically. and as someone who has studied and reported on his life and i wrote this biography of him, a couple of years ago, to kelly --

the military civilian divide is something that goes all the way back to george washington. he believes that george washington had this foresight to keep the military away from domestic politics in the way that he told some soldiers that wanted to go down to the continental congress and make complaints during the revolutionary war, like -- probably -- are not getting the history 100% right, this is something that kelly looks all the way back to washington on. he looks at eisenhower on. and he can recite to you the times in the american military has been used domestically, and the few times that it has. and even when he was a younger officer in the marines in l.a., he took over a battalion, or a group of soldiers who had been part of going into l.a. during the riot in the early 90s, and he said that even

though kelly hadn't been in charge of this unit, they complained constantly to him about the fact that they had been used domestically. and that lying to him was just too much. and that's why he does the stuff that he's done in the past few days, because it was trump saying this publicly and not just saying it as just some random politician, as someone seeking the presidency and saying, this is what i'm going to do if i come back. >> there is a new ad out with some of your interview, which -- let me play that. >> you think he is a fascist? >> it certainly falls within the definition of a fascist. far right, authoritarianism, ultra national movement

characterized by a dictatorial leader. using the military to go after american citizens is a very, very bad thing. people who are liars and people who are dictators. >> hitler did some good things, too. >> if he was left to his own devices, would he be a dictator? >> what somebody of the president, the authority is total. >> i am kamala harris, and i approve this message. >> matt dowd, what you think? >> is a very powerful ad. and with the conversation we had the other day, i think this is one of those sort of key moments that i think can be determinative of this race. i actually think as i was

listening to this and as we talked about this, it's actually a test of us. honestly, it's a test of us as american voters, because who donald trump is is exceedingly clear. he has told us who he is. the interesting thing to me about the last 72 hours with all of this outrageous stuff is that basically, he isn't saying -- he just basically says, i don't like general kelly for telling people the things that i'm going to do. he doesn't deny that this is what he wants to be in the course of this, but it is really a test of us as american voters. i was thinking about what's going to happen when we get to election night. and i think about this, that even under a scenario, the scenario that the vice president wins, donald trump is going to get at least five or 6 million more votes than he got in 2020. think about that. he is going to get five or 6 million more votes. he's going to get nearly 80

million votes. that is a disturbing -- donald trump is disturbing and what he wants to do is disturbing, but the idea that this test of us as americans and who we are and where we want to turn our path as a country and what the constitution means, it's a test of us, and you 80 million americans that donald trump is clearly said what he's going to say and are voting for him, and is incredibly disturbing and that this work is going to go on long after election day. >> is a haunting point. but it needs to be said. i would ask all of you to stick around. kevin carol, your story and your insights, and your courage in sharing all of them, i'm sure this is not what you want to do when you leave government, so i appreciate you. enqueue for joining us. >> thank you. thank you. listing agent.

(agent) oh! so, i'm done? (luke) oh, no, no, no! we're still not sure everyone knows that we're the only site that always connects you to the listing agent rather than selling off your contact info. so, we're gonna keep you up there a little while longer. (agent) okay, ya! i'm getting great exposure. (marci) speaking of exposure, could we get him a hat? (luke) ooo, what about a beret? (vo) homes-dot-com. we've done your home work. today's biggest feat wasn't making costumes for the school play. or locking in an appointment...

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>> i think the bigger problem is the enemy from within. not even the people that have come in and are destroying our country. either way, totally destroying our country's. the towns and villages are being inundated. but i think the bigger problem are the people from within. we have some very bad people, we have some sick people, radical left lunatics. and it should be very easily handled by, if necessary, by national guard or if really necessary by the military. because they can't let that happen. >> i guess my question for you is, if the people who are here in this country that lead him to believe we are a garbage can, he is described as poisoning the blood of america, if it's critics in politics and journalism and the judiciary are worse than them, what does that mean? >> we are on the precipice of a

dangerous time if you were to win this election. let's think about the fact that this man is saying out loud that he considers people that are seeking refuge in this country, and i think that has to be dealt with, but they are not garbage. they are human beings. to say we are a garbage can, we have to be taking garbage in. who decides the difference in those that seek to come here? his in-laws became citizens while he was president. are they garbage? or is it only for mexicans and venezuelans and haitians, people of color? and then when you deal with the enemy within, who determines him? that's why we have to give respect to general kelly. i may disagree with a lot of things. i was not a military guy, but i was that age. i would've been a conscientious objector. but he believes in this country as those of us who may disagree

with some of the foreign policy believes in the country. trump apparently doesn't believe in what the country stands for, what the military is supposed to be. he brings in nothing but donald trump. and if we are going to have a president that is going to define enemies within, based on how you react, relate, or talk about me, then we are going all the way into a question of fascism as general kelly said. lastly, i agree with what was said. you been on this non-protestant voter turnout with the action network. and this is not about whether you like, or trump. when you vote, you are defining what you like, what you believe in. and you vote for the candidate that is closest to representing what you believe in. you are not voting for harris. you are voting for you, and

this is your statement. anything for anybody to say it's all right, talking about fascism, it's all right for me to go after the enemy. it's okay to mock military men. forget protesters. military men that put their lives on the line. and you cosign that with a vote that tells us who you are, not donald trump's. we already know who he is. >> you have any insights into why the other generals who kevin talked about, general millie and general mattis haven't sort of corroborated or added their voices to what general kelly has testified to in terms of, not in favor of the same incidents, but a face- off? >> i think that these generals are almost allergic to the politics. i don't think this was kelly's first choice. this is not something that he wanted to do. and, i mean, obviously, he's a grown adult who made his own

decision here, but it was something that, i think, we had to ask him a lot of times to do. and i think that they also -- they find themselves in the crosshairs of a political moment. this is the final weeks of a presidential election in john kelly's name is out there, and whether people are going to vote for donald trump or not. if you are john kelly someone who hates presidential politics, that's not a place you want to be. and that is going to go sell a book. i don't know where he is. there's no pictures of him, we have this audio of him. that's why i think the audio is so important, to hear directly from him. but he is not sitting in front of the cameras. he's not going to go out on the campaign trail. and my guess is that he has

very mixed feelings about all of this, and he sits there and probably says, you know, i hate partisan politics. i can't believe my name is out there in this. i don't think he's particularly comfortable with it. i think if he was comfortable with it, you would see more of him. there is this quote today in the washington post that popped up from him. >> hope springs eternal that someday he will come talk to us. i understand the point you're making. i guess the doubt -- and i think it's important to point out that these men aren't afraid of being punished. these are not men who scare. it's not the court-martial, i don't think, that they are afraid of. it is what mike is talking about. if their allergy to partisan politics. but i guess what i would say in having the privilege to work in the white house is that it is difficult to articulate the reverence for people like your son, who also

served, and the sort of miracle it is, especially these days, that someone will look at everything that is cheap and easy and shallow and fun and decide, no, i'm going to go serve my country. i'm going to go stand on the line. and these men love them and that in ways that it gives their lives meaning. it probably gives them a sense of not wanting to tarnish that, that thing that is so precious to them. that is exactly what donald trump is promising to destroy. because you put your son on the streets of texas to round up his neighbors, that ruins a soldier's life. and i wonder what you would say as someone who knows this and knows this meaning to those generals were holding out. >> you know, it is interesting that you bring up my son. my son, who did, as you said, did two tours in iraq. he was actually in the first class of boot camp who

enlisted, knowing he would be sent to war. he was the first class. when he enlisted, he knew he was going to be sent. he knew he was going to be in harms way when he decided to join the army because it was already happening in the course of this. and it's funny, when i talk to him, you know, to make this a little personal, just that service, they do it with a great deal of humility. they don't want to be thanked. the other thing -- they are not aggressive. most of them are not aggressive. they don't want to shoot people. they will do it if they have to do it, they will do it to protect others. it will do it to serve their country, but they don't want to during the course of this. and something like donald trump, who everybody says has this appeal to young men, when he disparages their service, i can tell you -- my son, i have two brothers, what it was in the marine and what it was in the coast guard for 24 years -- all three of them can't stand the guy. and they can't stand the guy

because he has no service besides self. >> when we come back, millions of voters casting ballots well ahead of election day. it is, yes, a sign of planning. it's also a sign of energy and engagement and activism that we are seeing all across the country. we will be joined by wnba superstar renee montgomery who used her platform for social change, and she has blazed a trail from the basketball court to the board room. she will be our next guest. gu >> the election is about two extremely different visions for our nation. one, donald trump, who is focused on the past, and himself. and we are not going back. we are not. we are not going back. we are not going back. and here's why. here is why. because we -- because we are

focused on the future, and we are focused on the needs of the american people as opposed to donald trump, who spends full time looking in the mirror focused on himself. okay, you know what? hold on a second. listen. hold on. hold on. i want to talk about gaza for a minute. i want to talk about gaza for a minute. okay? we can and we must seize this opportunity to end this war and bring the hostages home. and i will do everything in my power to meet that end.

and we are here because we are fighting for our democracy. and we respect the voices of all people. and we got a job to do in the next nine days to protect this democracy we love. nine days. and we understand we have an opportunity before us to turn the page on the fear and the divisiveness that has characterized our politics for a decade because of donald trump. we have the ability to turn the page on that same old tired playbook, because we are exhausted with it. and we are ready to chart a new way forward.

and yes, we will be joyful in the process. yes, we like to laugh. yes, we know that when you care about the people and you understand what you are fighting for, there is joy in that fight, and that is what we are all in this together. we are fighting for the future of our nation, where we tap into the ambitions and the aspirations and the dreams of the american people. we are a new generation of leadership that is optimistic and excited about what our nation can do together! and the great thing about

living in a democracy, as long as we keep it, is that we, the people, have the power to choose the direction of our country and its leadership. the power is with the people! and from the beginning, our campaign has been about building coalitions and building community. look, over the next nine days, like we said, we are going to win. that is our highest order. but through that process, to all the friends here, i say, let's be intentional about building community. let's be intentional about building coalitions. let's be intentional about understanding we all have so much more in common than what separates us. we will be the better for it.

that is what our campaign is about, because we know we are all in this together. we have so much more in common than what separates us, and we are going to fight for the country we love. and -- and that is why we are all here together, because we love our country. we love our country. and you've got to fight for the thing you love. you've got to fight for the thing you love. and i do believe it is one of the highest forms of patriotism, the expression of the love of our country, to then fight for its ideals. it is the highest form of patriotism, and one of the most

powerful ways we do that is with our vote. so -- all right. so everybody is here because they're prepared to do the work, so here we are. from now until election day, we are going to get out the vote here in pennsylvania. and if you will give me a minute, i really want to write now speak to the young leaders who are here. is jen z in the house? who is voting for the first time in their first election? all right.

now here is the thing i love about you young leaders. you know, you are rightly impatient for change. you are rightly impatient. you have only known the climate crisis. you are leaders and what we need to do to protect our planet. you who grew up with active shooter drills. you know what we have to do to fight for safety in our schools. you who right now have fewer rights than your mothers and grandmothers and understand the importance of fighting for the right of a woman to make decisions about her own body and not have her government tell her what to do. and this is why i love you, the young leaders who are here,

because for you, this is not theoretical. this is not political. this is not about some debate. it is about your lived experience, and you are here and i see you, because i see your power. and you are here because you know your power. and i am so proud of you and everyone. let us applaud our young leaders. our first-time voters. let's applaud them. let's applaud them. let's applaud them! so philly, we have nine days -- nine days to get this done. and for the next nine days, no one can sit on the sidelines. there is too much on the line,

and we must not wake up the day after the election and have any regrets about what we could have done in these next nine days. so let's spend these next nine days knowing we did everything we could, that we connected with each other, with our neighbors, that we went up to perfect strangers in the grocery store and said, you know what? i see you. let's -- let's approach this moment in a way that, in the face of the stranger, we see a neighbor. and let's talk with each of them. about what we have in common. let's build community. and let's knock on doors. let's call potential voters. let's reach out to our family and our friends and our classmates and our neighbors.

tell them about the stakes in this election and tell them about their power. so we are going to get folks to the polls, and we are going to make our voices heard. and let's give folks some important information. let's start with the basics. okay? election day is tuesday, november 5th. i'm serious. everybody is busy. let's start with that. let folks know you can vote then, or you can vote early from today through tuesday, october 29th. that is two days from now. so now is the time to vote early. get it done tomorrow, if you can. go to if you need information about where you vote, and if you have received your ballot in the mail, do not wait. fill it out today.

because the election is here, and the choice, philly, is truly in your hands. the path to victory runs right through all of you who are here. through all of you. and your vote is your voice, and your voice is your power. so today, philadelphia, i ask you -- are you ready to make your voices heard? do we believe in freedom? do we believe an opportunity? do we believe in the promise of america? and are we ready to fight for it? and when we fight, we win!

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>> i want my children to know that there is someone sitting in the oval office that they can look up to. someone who could be a role model. and i am incredibly proud, and i know that vice president harris will do that. >> i have seen a lot of republicans go up to liz cheney and thanked her, and they may not be doing it publicly. they may not be doing it publicly, because i think she has shown, to your point, extra ordinary courage. i have seen republicans come up to her, and from my vantage

point, she is actually not alone. >> i was vice president kamala harris, the former congresswoman liz cheney, making her pitch to voters in a trio of swing states today. the candidate for all people from all parties appearing alongside list cheney, who, like so many republicans, is voting for a democratic candidate for the first time in her life. it is an extraordinary display of patriotism and bipartisanship in the face of deep cynicism, deep division in our country. division that our guest, our dear friend, fred guttenberg is seeking to change by seeking common ground across the divide. his tour with joe walsh, two dads defending democracy, wraps up tomorrow. i follow both of you on twitter, fred. i've been following every stop. you both are doing exactly what

liz cheney and kamala harris are doing, and that is with humility and affection and respect for one another, lifting all of us up and giving people hope that it doesn't have to be this way. >> it is crazy that i love joe walsh. we spent years doing this, you know? and until one day -- and he made the first reach out. but when i started talking and realizing we had each other wrong, and there is space for common ground, even between guys who politically are incredibly different. we realize there something incredible here, because that's what democracy is about. nicole, i am so -- that there is a candidate running for president who says the things he says, who lives every day, who does think his voters are really stupid, to be quite honest. you can't lie and actually know you're going to get their votes unless you are so cynical to

think they're stupid. and mike johnson was clear this weekend that he feels the same way about those voters. so i'm going to say this -- joe and i are doing what we are doing because i do remain hopeful. i think if we keep talking to people, if we keep explaining why this election matters so much, we are going to be okay. and so tomorrow, we have the final event of our two dads defending democracy before the election. we hope to continue it postelection, if democracy survives. and if everybody listened and everybody across this country just is a really similar thing -- vote. and get everyone you know to vote, we will be okay. >> i think of sort of joe walsh on your side and janie on your shoulder. what are you thinking about her as you go out there and campaign ? you know, pouring your heart and soul into this? >> so you showed kamala harris.

i walked kamala harris to the school where my daughter was murdered back in march. i gave her every chance to say no to doing it, because the school is still an untouched crime scene. jamie would love kamala harris. jamie would be all in on this. and what kamala harris stands for. jamie had what i would call the greatest -- detector in the world. and in 2016, she was screaming at the television saying, people, are you crazy? can you not see what that man is about ? that hasn't changed. and so right now, i know jamie is standing on my shoulders and on this country's shoulders saying, there is one more thing we need to do. we've already started the work. bipartisan safer communities act, office of gun violence prevention led by the vice

president, by the way. it is working. violent crime is historically down. and i know jamie doesn't get to be here to say it herself, that i am her voice. if we vote, the work continues. if we don't, the work stops. i can't make it any more simple than that. vote. >> you are a girl that forever, and i keep thinking, and i said this on tv but i will ask you what you think. i think girl dads are this silent sleeper vote, that they see what trump is, they see him talking longingly about another man's , they see him saying, i love the women. they see him calling vice president kamala harris on -- vice president. they see women dying in childbirth and in pregnancy because of trump's abortion bans and trump's pics to the supreme court. what conversations you have with other girl dads? >> donald trump is demented. and he says things that none of us should want our daughters to

hear from another man. okay? but he is demented. he believes men want to hear that. he believes men want to see his performances. i mean, he is a demented pool. and i don't believe men think that way. i don't believe men want their daughters to date or marry men like that. and so i am with you. i think dads of daughters, but sons also. because you know what? i'm a daddy raised both of his children with a simple motto. always do what is right, not what is easy. always treat people with respect. you have to live with yourself at the end of the day, and i think men and women across america, whether you are in a red area or a blue area, understand that basic premise of life. we should be ashamed that donald trump uses performative art to try and destroy this country that we love. okay?

we should be ashamed that this race is as close as it is. >> this has been prime time weekend. i am nicolle wallace. please tune into deadline white house and all of our prime time shows weekdays on msnbc. ys on . or locking in an appointment... and actually getting there with time to spare. it was the fact that the silvas went 4 for 4 on getting all their flu shots with no tears. bravery? rewarded. when it's time for vaccines, it's time for cvs. (♪♪)

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okay, we're just nine days out. the one and only michelle obama has some things to get off her