the day that she left the door and that her voice and what she was wearing and, you know, i'm getting old and you forget a lot of stuff. but those things that just-- not that. i don't want to forget her image and her voice. and it's hard. no matter how many years pass by. that's all for this edition of "dateline." i'm andrea canning. thank you for watching. ♪♪ this sunday, closing arguments. it's either donald trump in there stewing over his enemies

list or me working for you, checking off my to-do list. >> we're a dumping ground. we're like a garbage can for the world. >> with just nine days until election day vice president harris and former president trump make their final appeal to voters. >> we know what donald trump wants. he wants unchecked power. >> she's not a smart person. she's a low iq individual. she is. she is. she's a low i.q. person. >> plus generals warning. donald trump's former chief of staff, a retired four-star marine general warns trump would govern like a dictator and praised hitler's generals for loyalty. >> certainly falls into the general definition of fascist. >> do you think donald trump is a fascist? >> yes, i do. and 2024 doubts. >> got to make it too big to rig, right? >> donald trump still hasn't conceded the 2020 election. what will that mean for the 2024 results? >> did donald trump lose the election not by the words that i

would use. >> my guest this morning, republican vice presidential nominee senator j.d. vance and independent senator bernie sanders of vermont. joining me for insight and analysis are nbc news senior washington correspondent hallie jackson. jonathan martin of politico. symone sanders-townsend, former chief spokeswoman for vice president kamala harris and sarah fagan. welcome to sunday, it's "meet the press." >> from nbc news in washington, the longest running show in television history, this is "meet the press" with kristen welker. good sunday morning. the closest presidential contest in modern history is entering its final stretch and with just nine days until election day, vice president harris and former president trump are making their closing arguments. trump focused on a message of fear, harris casting trump as a threat to the nation's

democracy. in a series of interviews with "the new york times" mr. trump's longest serving chief of staff retired marine corps general john kelly warned the former president would rule like a dictator in a second term. >> looking at the definition of fascism, it's a far-right, authoritarian ultranationalist political ideology and movement characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism and suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy. so certainly, in my experience, those are the kinds of things that he thinks would work better in terms of running america. so he certainly falls interest the general definition of fascist for sure. >> vice president harris joined by high-profile surrogates including barack and michelle

obama is leaning into a closing argument centered on attacking former president trump as a danger to the country in an approach campaign officials believe will help her win over the small sliver of undecided voters. and motivate her base. >> do you think donald trump is a fascist? >> yes, i do. yes, i do, and i also believe that the people who know him best on this subject should be trusted. >> general john kelly, donald trump's former chief of staff, said that trump told him he wanted his generals to be like hitler's generals. in politics a good rule of thumb is don't say you want to do anything like hitler. >> all of my hope about kamala is also accompanied by some genuine fear. fear for our country. fear for our children. fear for what is coming our way if we forget the stakes in this election.

>> former president trump on defense. >> the phony stories by a general that got fired and he's a whack job. total whack job. a general. it's funny, when you fire people, see biden has never fired anybody, but when you fire people for doing a bad job they get a little bit angry. >> the vice president will deliver a closing argument speech on tuesday at the ellipse where former president trump spoke shortly before the january 6th capitol attack. nbc news has learned harris plans to contrast mr. trump's worst moment in office, and what a second trump term would look like with what her campaign calls harris' optimistic vision for the future. on saturday former first lady michelle obama appealed to american men focused on the issue of reproductive rights. >> if we don't get this election

right, your wife, your mother, your daughter, your women will become collateral damage for rage. donald trump will use a rally tonight at madison square garden. >> we'll stop the invasion of criminals into our country and i will bring back the american dream for your children and for yourself. this is all you need to know. kamala broke it, i will fix it. for more on where the race stands and just who the voters are that the campaigns may still be able to persuade, i am joined by national political correspondent steve kornacki. steve, this race is incredibly tight in the homestretch. >> yeah. absolutely, kristen. the one thing we have noticed in the last couple of days, this is not all of the polls that are out there now, but we have seen a number. four in the last four days that have shown very small, but in the context of this close race potentially meaningful movement in trump's direction.

i don't want to overstate it, but at the same time it's hard to ignore these four. the cnbc poll came out the other day has trump ahead by two. "the wall street journal" poll, trump ahead by three. these are national numbers. sinna and "the new york times," a tied race. cnn, a tied race. the significance here is broader movement. again, we are seeing it in trump's direction. to put this in some context here is the current national polling average and let me pull it up on the screen. harris continues to lead nationally, i want to stress that, but we've been tracking this every week on the air here. a couple of weeks ago this number was at three for kamala harris. her lead in the poll is down to 1.2 because of the numbers i just showed you. the swing states, the battleground states are going to be what decides this election and look how close those are. we've seen 1.2 nationally and just about all these swing states are even tighter than that.

so trump certainly, a little improvement nationally, but where the race is decided, absolutely razor thin, but what is happening nationally. we can show you from the cnbc poll. they picked up on something that our own nbc poll was suggesting recently and that was a shift in the image of kamala harris. you can see right now in the cnbc poll, 42 positive, 48 negative, higher negative than positive and that is where trump is, too, lagely. 49. harris had a higher positive than negative. in our poll and a cnbc poll and other polls you see harris now with the negative going back above that positive rating. that said, tons of uncertainty and volatility remain in this race. check this out. we can show you this morning also from that cnbc poll looking at this question of persuadable voters. defining them this way, how about this? 12% in the cnbc poll who currently say they support harris or trump stated they could change their mind still in this race, another 6% say

they're undecided or currently going to vote for a third-party candidate and that's a persuadable category of 18% and that's getting close to one in five voters here and the uncertainty is particularly acute for donald trump. we tell you maybe he's made some gains here, but his support continues to run deepest with voters who it is unclear if they're actually going to turn out and vote. look at it this way. from our nbc polling and a merge of all of our data and those who voted in the 2020 election and 202 midterms harris with a six-point lead. the most reliable bloc of voters. those who only voted in the 2020 presidential. that's where trump opens up a lead and then those who didn't vote in either that's where trump has his biggest advantage over harris. are they actually going to vote this time around? huge question mark. another way to look at it. we asked folks, scale of one to ten, your interest in this election. again, look at this. those who rate it the highest, nine or ten, race is tied. seven or eight, harris is ahead. here's where trump cleans up,

one to six. trump relying on a coalition that if they turn out could be powerful for him, kristen, but that's a big if. >> powerful indeed, and those persuadable voters in the final days of the race. steve kornacki, great stuff as always. thanks so much. >> thank you, kristen. on saturday i sat down with republican vice presidential nominee senator j.d. vance in erie, pennsylvania. >> senator j.d. vance, welcome back to "meet the press". >> good to be here. thank you. >> thank you for sitting down with us. i want to sit down this week and secretary lloyd austin confirmed that north korean troops are training in russia and russia is creating disinformation to sow doubt in the upcoming presidential election. let me ask you this question, senator, do you see russian president vladimir putin as an ally or an enemy? >> well, i think that he's clearly an adversary. he's a competitor, but i think

that we also have to be smart about diplomacy, too, just because we don't like somebody doesn't mean that we can't occasionally engage in conversations with them and it's important if we're ever going to end the war in ukraine fundamentally at some level we're going to have to engage in some sort of negotiation between ukraine, russia and nato allies in europe and that's just a necessary part. it doesn't mean we have to like it or condone the russian invasion of ukraine, but i think that sometimes you do have to engage in diplomacy even with and especially with your adversaries and i think the bigger problem, kristen. if we step back, we are on the cusp of a presidential election where i want people to select my running mate as the next president. whether it's the cost of groceries. whether it's the southern border and importantly, whether it's the chaos all over the world, i think really the theme of this election is that kamala harris broke things in the world in the country and donald trump will fix it, and if we get back to his steady leadership it's not just going to mean lower grocery prices at home, it will mean a

much more stable and peaceful world. >> when your saying he's an adversary, you're not going so far to call him an enemy. >> we're not at war with russia. i think we should try to pursue avenues of peace. i would also call china a competitor, but we're not in a war with china, either. i do think, though, that china constitutes the biggest threat that we have for the united states of america, and i think that we have to be serious about it, but i think we have to be careful about the language that we use in international diplomacy. we can recognize we have adversarial interest with russia, and i have and the president has, but we need to engage in smart diplomacy if we will ever get out of the mess that kamala harris has left us in and get back to a posture of peace. >> donald trump was president for four years while russia was in crimea. >> that's a misunderstanding

history. i look at that much differently. we had russia invade a sovereign nation during obama. we had russia invade a sovereign nation during bush's term. we had russia invade a sovereign nation during the leadership of kamala harris, and the one year when it didn't was under donald trump. on that point, if donald trump had not given ukraine javelins, the country wouldn't exist as a sovereign nation. i think it is belied by the actual history. >> there was fighting going on for four years. >> it wasn't a full-scale invasion. i think that's important. >> let me ask you because there are real concerns about vladimir putin invading nato allies. under a trump/vance administration can you pledge sitting here today that the u.s. will continue to remain a member of nato? >> of course we will honor our nato commitments, but i think it's important, kristen, that we recognize that nato is not just

a welfare client. it should be a real alliance and this is the strong difference between kamala harris and donald trump. donald trump wants nato to be strong and he wants us to remain in nato, but he also want nato countries to actually carry their share of the defense burden. under kamala harris' leadership we've actually seen how weak nato is, as a full-scale military alliance. it's effectively the united kingdom, a couple of other nations and the united states. nato's problem is particularly germany, has to spend more on security and has to spend more on defense. we can't be the policemen of the world. we want nato to be an alliance and not just a dependent of the united states. >> nato has been unified in defending ukraine. just to be clear, you would stay in nato? is that a yes? >> we would stay in nato. this is important. you're right, some of the countries have done a lot, but some of the countries relative to gdp have done very little in ukraine and that's important, and we're trying to talk to the american people, of course, and i think a very significant difference between kamala harris

and donald trump is kamala harris would like to use our tax dollars and our troops to subsidize europeans not taking care of their own security and donald trump wants europe to step up big time to become a real ally of the united states and not just a dependent. >> senator, let's move on. you talked about the threat of from china. china was behind a broad hacking campaign targeting the phones of both presidential campaigns highlighting the threat china poses to this country. donald trump recently called his domestic political opponents "the enemy from within" and said they are more dangerous than russia and china. do you think that adam schiff and nancy pelosi are more dangerous than russia and china. >> think what donald trump said was those folks pose a greater threat to the united states' peace and security because america is strong enough to stand up to any foreign adversary. >> do you agree with him? they pose a larger threat than russia and china? >> what he said and i agree with

it, what he said, it's not a foreign adversary because we can handle these guys. we can handle foreign countries. under nancy pelosi's long life, in public leadership, the united states has gone from the pre-eminent industrial power of the world to second next to china. that fundamentally belongs on nancy pelosi's shoulders and if we're going to have a more prosperous country we have to recognize our own leadership is why we lost our industrial base to china. our own leadership is failing to lead in peace and prosperity. kamala harris -- when i look at the biggest threats to america, kristen, i look at the fact that people can't afford groceries and we can't meet recruitment goals in the military and the fact that they have a wide open southern border and yes, it's caused by broken leadership. >> as you know, inflation is coming down. >> 25% higher, kristen, than it was when donald trump -- this is an important issue, if americans

-- >> senator let me ask you. >> if americans feel like inflation is a solved problem maybe they should vote for kamala harris. if you feel like the price of groceries and the price of housing is too high and you feel like inflation is not over, then donald trump is your man. >> no doubt that folks believe that groceries are too high. but inflation has come down. >> i agree with those folks. >> let me ask you of about what we heard this week. donald trump's chief of staff former general john kelly, said he is a fascist. he echoed comments made by the chairman of joint chiefs of staff, mark milley also called him a fascist. when two four-star generals who worked so closely with donald trump called him a fascist why shouldn't voters believe them, senator? >> i think mark milley and john kelly are disgruntled employees. very many of the things they accuse donald trump of, people who were in the room at the time some of those comments have made have said explicitly donald trump did not say the

things he was accused of and, look, donald trump was president for four years, if he was what john kelly said he was then why did donald trump deliver peace and prosperity. he didn't arrest his political opponents as kamala harris and the department of the justice have in fact done. there's no evidence of that. they've not gone after political opponents. >> the current department of justice under kamala harris and joe biden has absolutely been going after the political opponents of the current democratic party and i think it's a disgrace and that's happening. >> there's no evidence that the doj is going after their political opponents. donald trump was indicted by federal grand juries. let me ask you, though, you said they're disgruntled employees. trump praised both kelly and milley and said kelly was, quote, one of the best people i've ever worked with in addition to those two trump national security advisers, two defense secretaries and even his vice president all say he's unfit to be president. why should the american people hire donald trump when the people who worked most closely with him say that he's unfit to

serve? >> the people who worked most closely with him, most of them are supporting this ticket. you mentioned one person -- two people are disgruntled ex-employees, kristen, who donald trump fired. he said something nice about them and now he fired them and now that person is attacking donald trump and it's important because the american media has to be honest. why is it, kristen, that john kelly doesn't like donald trump? it's not about personality. it's about policy, and i think the american people have the right to know that donald trump rejected that john kelly, the mark milley consensus that america should be the policemen of the world and because of that, these folks hate him. if donald trump had wanted to start a nuclear war with russia i guarantee you that john kelly and liz cheney would be at the front of the line endorsing him, but i think the media misses something really important. this disagreement is not about personalities. this disagreement is because john kelly didn't like the peace through strength policy of donald trump. i do, and i think the american people do.

>> longest serving chief of staff and donald trump says he only hires the best people. i have to keep moving though because our time is very limited. former vice president mike pence said, quote, from trump asked me to put him over oath of the constitution. anyone who puts himself over the constitution should never be president of the united states. will your loyalty, senator, be to the constitution or to donald trump? >> of course my loyalty is to the american people and to the united states constitution, but i think the best way -- >> over donald trump? >> the best way to accomplish that loyalty, kristen, is to get back to a president who delivered the fastest rising take-home pay in a generation, 1.5% inflation and a secure southern border. i don't think there's inconsistency between loyalty to the constitution and support for donald trump. that's why i'm out there trying to persuade my fellow americans that donald trump's presidency worked for them and i'd like us to get back to smart politics. >> to put a fine point on this, mike pence says trump asked him to put trump over the constitution.

if you find yourself in a similar position one day will your loyalty will be to the constitution or to donald trump? >> i just said my loyalty is to the constitution of the united states. >> over donald trump? >> have we talked about groceries? >> we have. >> because i brought it up. i brought that up. it's so interesting, kristen, because i think that kamala harris' campaign and too many of her media allies are more interested in what donald trump has said than what donald trump did in office. you're more interested in what kamala harris is accusing donald trump of than what donald trump actually did during his four years in office which was deliver peace and prosperity. >> we are getting a hard wrap. on the economy, quickly, before i let you go. donald trump again floated the idea of getting rid of the federal income tax. to be clear, are you proposing eliminating all federal income taxes in a donald trump precedence. >> he didn't propose that, he said that as an aspirational

goal. i'm backing donald trump for president and he set an aspirational goal and said look, in this country for a long time we funded the federal government primarily through tariffs and penalizing foreign corporations and foreign countries from taking advantage of our domestic markets, that's an aspirational goal. what is very real about what donald trump has propose side specifically policy proposals is that we want to eliminate taxes on tips and overtime pay. that's the donald trump policy proposal. he's talking aspirational about something that he himself thinks is less of a focus than cutting taxes on tips. >> getting a hard wrap so just yes or no. is getting rid of all federal income taxes on the table? it's a possibility under a trump/vance administration? >> is it on the table with the democratic congress that we have, i don't think it's realistic, but -- >> will you propose it? >> right now we're working on cutting taxes on tips and cutting taxes on overtime. >> so you're not ruling it out.

>> senator j.d. vance, thank you very much for your time appreciate it. >> likewise. we did extend an invitation to democratic vice president candidate governor tim walz and he declined to appear with us this morning. when we come back, independent bernie sanders joins me next.

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and get one free for a year. welcome back. joining me now is independent senator bernie sanders of vermont. senator sanders, welcome back to "meet the press." >> good to be with you. >> it's great to have you, senator. let's start off by talking about vice president harris' closing arguments. she is arguing that donald trump is a fascist. it does come on the heels of general john kelly calling a fascist.

mark milley calling a fascist and you heard j.d. vance and let me put this question to you, senator, do you believe that donald trump is a fascist? >> i don't like using those words, but clearly he has a strong, strong tendency to authoritarianism and to undermining american democracy. look, this is a guy who provoked an insurrection in january 6th, 2021, to prevent and the first time in american history a peaceful transfer of power. so does donald trump believe in democracy, believe in the rule of law? there is a reason, and you raised this a moment ago with vance, why his own vice president for four years mike pence says he is not supporting donald trump. why mitt romney, the 2012 republican candidate not supporting donald trump and it's not because of policy issues. it is because they understand that trump is an authoritarian, does not believe in the rule of law, and for a hundred reasons

is unfit to be president of the united states. >> senator, given that you think it is too far to label donald trump as a fascist, do you think it's a mistake by vice president harris to do so? >> well, look -- call it what you want, this is a guy who does not believe in policy and who's trying to divide us up. you can describe him as a fascist or authoritarian. you might recall just a few weeks ago donald trump did a photo opportunity at mcdonald's. he loves mcdonald's, great, but he's asked the question, do you think we should raise the minimum wage to a living wage so that people at mcdonald's and millions of other workers don't have to live on starvation wages, he ducked the question. how does it happen that a billionaire cannot support raising the minimum wage from $7.25 to a living wage? kamala harris supports raising the minimum wage to at least $15 bucks an hour, and i would go

higher, but for a billionaire to be forcing people to be working for 9, 10, 11 bucks an hour. he was here a few weeks ago and he gets up there and meanders and he says overtime pay. when i was in private business i did everything that i could to avoid paying people time and a half overtime. i would hire other workers so i didn't have to pay overtime and true to his statement, when he was president he restricted overtime, made it harder for people to get overtime. harris and president biden expanded overtime pay. how does it happen? you tell me that a billionaire hanging out with billionaires supported by the richest guy in the world cannot support time and a half overtime for millions of working people. >> and you are talking about the messaging here, senator. so let me ask you about that very topic. vice president harris started her campaign calling donald trump weird, saying she wanted to restore joy to politics. obviously, a shift now casting

trump as a real threat to democracy. do you think that kamala harris is giving voters enough reason to vote for her instead of just against donald trump? >> well, that's a great question. look, protecting american democracy, ain't nothing more important than that. protecting a woman's right to control her own body which -- which trump opposes, nothing -- to me, enormously important. the fact that donald trump thinks that climate change is a hoax in opposition to every scientist who studied the issue has also been important. if you're asking me do i think there should be more focus on economics, on the fact that over the last 50 years there's been a massive transfer of wealth from the bottom 90% to the top 1% to the fact that 60% of our people are living paycheck to paycheck

while the billionaire class has never had it so good, while donald trump wants to give even more tax breaks to billionaires. you talked a moment ago with vance about their idea to eliminate all federal taxes. this would be the biggest transfer of wealth in the history of this country. it would mean the billionaire class and the millionaires no longer pay a nickel of taxes, but you go to the grocery store and you're a working-class person, the idea that you eliminate all taxes and replace them by a tariff is insane economics, and it will hurt desperately poor people and enrich the very rich and there is a reason why in trump's campaign, you've got three billionaires pouring hundreds of millions to make sure. they, no doubt, think it's a great idea that they don't have that pay any more in taxes while not living the minimum wage to a living wage. >> that was going to be my follow-up question.

now we can move on to my next question which is about the middle east. of course, as you know and as we track the developments in the meet middle east israel. in michigan the group that led hundreds of thousands of primary voters to cast ballots against president biden and the protest vote for his handling of the war in the middle east. she told me that she was not voting for kamala harris or donald trump. take a look. i'll get your reaction on the other side. >> frankly, vice president harris' unwillingness to adopt a more humanitarian policy, she hasn't earned my vote. it seems the signal that we've gotten from her and her campaign is that she is willing to risk michigan by continuing to alienate young people, arab-americans and muslims. >> what is your message to voters like her and are you concerned that this issue could cost kamala harris michigan?

>> layla, i believe that president biden has been the most progressive pro-worker president since fdr, the only president to ever walk on a picket line to strongly support unions and i said this a million times. i strongly disagree with their policies on gaza. israel, of course, had a right to defend itself against the horrific terrorist attack from hamas on october 7th, but they now have palestinian people, 100,000 dead and the destruction of gaza and now starvation of children. so my own view has been that the united states should not continue to provide financial aid or offensive weapons to netanyahu's right-wing extremist government, but what i would say to layla and all those people thinking of not voting or maybe even voting for trump. trump is even worse on this issue. i can tell you, we are desperately trying at the very

least to get humanitarian aid to feed starving children into gaza, certainly kamala harris and joe biden support that. we can't even get republicans to feed the kids who are in desperate shape. so on that issue, while i disagree with biden and harris, they are still a lot better than what trump and vance are talking about. >> i have to ask you about developments related to elon musk. "the wall street journal" reporting this week that musk, a major government contractor, and someone that has security clearance that gives him access to highly classified information has been in regular contact with vladimir putin for the past two years. my question for you, is it appropriate for elon musk, a trump supporter, to have these secret contacts with vladimir putin and what do you think the biden administration can and should do about it? >> no, i don't think it's

appropriate. look, musk is a very smart, aggressive guy. he is the wealthiest person in the world and what really interests me is if, god forbid, trump would win, whether it would be elon musk running the government and trump working for him or the other way around, if you have somebody like elon musk who has massive federal contracts and campaigning hard and putting huge amounts of money putting into the campaign, if there's ever been a conflict of interest, that's it. >> senator bernie sanders, thank you so much for your perspective on all of these topics. i really appreciate it. when we come back, with just nine days to go the campaigns make their final pitch to voters. are the strategies working? we'll take a look. the panel is next. make their final pitch to voters. voters. are the

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welcome back. the panel is here. nbc news senior washington correspondent hallie jackson, anchor of sunday nightly news. jonathan martin, politics bureau

chief and senior political correspondent for politico. symone sanders-townsend former chief spokesperson to vice president harris and republican strategist sara fagan. thank you all for being here on a very big sunday. we are nine days out. hallie jackson, you had a chance to sit down with vice president kamala harris this week, it comes as she and donald trump are sharpening their closing messages and what do you expect to see 48 hours? >> 48 hours from now, the closing argument speech on the ellipse and interestingly in talking with her campaign adviser, listen, it's not going to be all about january 6th and people look at the ellipse and okay, that may be the focus. that is sort of the stage for a broader speech that looks at donald trump as she has been talking about in recent days and this enemies list, and that she is going to make the case for her own candidacy and why these persuadables that we have been

talking about should cross the bridge and back her instead of president trump if they're still on the fence. former president trump, interesting to see j.d. vance interview, because he tries to pivot to inflation and the inflation which is what the campaign wants the former president to be talking about. his message has been increasingly dark and ratcheting up the rhetoric more and more in these last few days as part of his closing. >> you saw these closing arguments playing with the voters you were talking to there? >> they're resonating with their base and there are about three voters left undecided that will decide the fate of the world. i think both candidates are taking risks in the final two weeks of the election. let's start with kamala harris. she's taking a risk about making this about january 6th and democracy so heavily because so many of the people who are animated by those issues are already in her column. i will be curious to see in the speech on tuesday if she would govern from the center. i think trump is also risking because, kristen, he is traveling all over the country. it's not just the garden tonight in new york city. i am now told he's going to new

mexico -- new mexico in the final week of the election. he's also, we know, going to virginia and there's talk he may go to new hampshire. those are all blue states and have been for multiple cycles in a row, so he's taking a risk by leaving the three battleground states, michigan, wisconsin and pennsylvania which most folks think are going to decide the election. >> sara, what do you make of that strategy and the fact that you're frankly seeing both candidates, you saw vice president harris in texas this weekend? >> i think if you look at the polling out of these states and while kamala harris is comfortably ahead, being up six in virginia, being up three or four in new hampshire means he's winning in these other states. i mean, these states move on a continuum, and so he's -- i think what he's feeling is confident that he can put her on the defensive in some places. she's going to win, but may not win by as much of a margin as she expects. >> symone?

>> well, i just would note i'm interested -- i think new york is just as much about making this play for voters and his home state as it is about the house races as well, and we spoke to governor hochul and she said donald trump and his house race is not necessarily helpful for republicans. it reminds them, in the districts that are purplish-type districts it doesn't help those candidates that are trying to distance themselves from trump. >> the trump campaign does seem to feel pretty confident. they're feeling in the last nine days good about where they are even with the polling showing and steve kornacki laid it out at the top of the show, this is such a close race and the harris campaign looks at it it's a different electorate in pennsylvania versus michigan versus wisconsin. it's not the same kind of voter that they're trying to target. >> it's a mars/venus scenario, of the two parties right now, democrats are fueled with things and republicans are cool as

cucumbers. we have a much closer popular vote this time around nationally which trump loses narrowly this time around, but because of those three states and michigan, wisconsin and pa are so close that trump can come within three in virginia, two in new hampshire but still lose the presidency if it does come down to those three battleground states on the great lakes. >> can i tell you something about infrastructure? infrastructure matters here. in a close race and the trump campaign has ceded their infrastructure to turning point and elon musk who neither one of them, in my opinion, to my knowledge have won races and the kamala harris-walz campaign infrastructure is one that's deep and well organized. >> it is well organized, however, if you look at early vote returns, there is some evidence that republicans certainly are voting in higher numbers. >> yes. >> -- earlier and his base is voting in higher numbers, and i think that him banking votes now will ultimately make this race

incredibly close and potentially put him over the edge. >> and by the way, those early vote numbers in nevada and north carolina are ominous for democrats in it suggests that her only path may, in fact, be michigan, wisconsin and pennsylvania. >> it is her path. >> which means that she has almost no margin for error in those three states and the issues like the arab-american vote in michigan becomes much more central. >> we say it internally here, election season -- >> exactly. >> what's interesting about the republican vote just in talking with experts about this, it's more about in-person than mail-in ballot. which i do wonder is donald trump all over the map, on the one hand saying to do it and on the other hand, echoing the election lies he's been telling for years. are there more of them or time shifting? >> that is always the question as you analyze these early votes, but banking votes is

always better than nothing. >> symone, 30 seconds left. what do you make of the early vote and to the point that jonathan's making, the trump campaign does feel emboldened right now, hallie says this with her reporting, too. what are you hearing from your democratic sources? >> well, i feel like they'll say they're emboldened. donald trump is laying the groundwork just as he did in 2020 to say that he won the election when he did not. i think it is very important that we say that and some of these republican polls, if you will, that have been out there in the ether are going to help make that case. i think democrats are going to run their race. i think it will be close. i do think it will be very close, early votes matter, but so does in person. >> you set us up into that and we'll delve into it in the next panel, but when we come back. it's the october surprise donald trump's 2016 opponent believes helped derail her campaign. our "meet the press minute" is next. stay with us.

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tresemme flawless curls defining mousse. 24 hour. hydrating curl definition. style your life the way you want. ♪♪ tresemme, style your way. welcome back. eight years ago today, then fbi director james comey met with investigators tied to hillary clinton's email case, a meeting that led him to re-open the probe prompting the biggest october surprise in recent memory. comey's letter to congress making the matter public just 11 days before the election sparked outrage from democrats. clinton's campaign manager appeared on "meet the press" just a few days later confident that this bombshell would not

cost them at the ballot box. >> do you believe this could cost you the election? >> i don't -- i don't think so. look, as i said, we have over 50,000 volunteers out there. we're seeing record early voting numbers in north carolina, florida. look, i would wager in nevada turnout is so strong among democrats there and hillary could build an insurmountable lead in the coming days in nevada. we're feeling really good with about this record turnout and over 200 million people registered to vote. we have nose to the grindstone and we'll finish this out. people should not take anything for granted and we'll have to work hard to earn this. >> well, former secretary clinton would later place some of the blame on director comey for costing her the election. >> when we come back, what happens if the 2024 results are challenged? more with the panel next. her t

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so, hallie, you sat down with the vice president. >> yeah. >> and she told you that she is prepared to act if former president trump declares victory prematurely. let's play that and get your reaction on the other side. >> i am very much grounded in the present in terms of the task at hand, and we will deal with election night and the days after as they come and we have the resources and the expertise and the -- and the focus on that, as well. >> so you have teams ready to go, is that what you're saying? are you thinking about that as a possibility? >> of course. this is a person, donald trump who tried to undo a free and fair election. >> hallie, what did you take away from that? >> as far as the question, it's not a hypothetical. the question was framed as this happened last cycle with the election, former president trump came out and declared victory before the votes were counted. to that end, is it something, i was curious, what is your campaign doing now? are you thinking about that possibility? she very clearly is.

nbc has more reporting that her campaign has an apparatus in place if this were to happen which again, it does seem that the former president is laying the groundwork for that at this moment, symone? >> i remember standing in the boiler room in the 2020 campaign. i was working as an adviser for the campaign and we watched donald trump go to the east room of the white house and said he had won when he didn't. what happened after that is a weeklong of briefings in the campaign being very clear of what their data is answering the press' questions and that is something that we could potentially see from the harris campaign going forward. donald trump goes forward. >> some of the states like pennsylvania, as you know, cannot start counting their ballots until the polls close on election out in. it's not nefarious. it's simply a matter of the state law in these states, we're probably not, america, going to get the results of the election on election night and nothing to be alarmed about. >> let me show the graphics and it is such an important point, jonathan. it's not just the harris campaign. the public seems to agree.

take a look at those numbers. over 70% of voters think harris will accept the results of the poll. almost three-quarters believe trump won't accept the results if he loses. what do you make of these figures? >> just based on behavior you would expect that poll result, but having said that -- >> precedent. >> but let's also remember what happened. he did leave office. he left office when he was supposed to, and as we kind of consider this whole argument about him being a threat to democracy and the constitution, it's pretty clear to me that he's going to get about 90 million votes, give or take and they've already concluded that he's not a threat to democracy. they're voting for him and it's based on the fact that, you know, the democrats don't have clean hands on these arguments, either. >> well. >> they're talking about undoing the filibuster and they're talking about changing the supreme court. >> let me just say something and i'll toss it to you. it's important to point out you

did say he left office -- but there was january 6th. >> i'm not defending january 6th. >> i just want to make the point -- >> people ultimately look back at his presidency and they see that he left office and there was a peaceful transfer of power. >> no, listen to this, and did you watch the inauguration? >> i was there. let me just say this. i am very animated by this because on january 6th i was with the then vice president-elect of the united states of america. at the democratic national convention where -- at the national convention committee when there were live bombs outside and the vice president-elect had to be evacuated. i was there at the inauguration. you know who i saw? i saw vice president mike pence having a moment with then-vice president harris and donald trump was not there. so it wasn't a peaceful transfer of power. >> but trump's judicial nominees blocked his attempt to subvert the outcome of the election.

people look at this holistically and they say i've concluded this isn't a threat and i'm voting for him. >> the final point, you're acknowledging he did try to overturn the results. jonathan, that's the fact that is challenging and that's why you have the harris campaign preparing for him to potentially declare victory. >> this goes to the foundation of what the vice president is trying to make in this case is she was out with liz cheney. i saw you on the road earlier this week when she was there. former congresswoman cheney is making the case, it doesn't matter if the bottom drops out on the democratic process. the transfer of power was not peaceful and we saw violence before the inauguration four years ago. >> this could be a good year for the gop. the only reason why this is a competitive race is the gop nominated donald trump again so half the country cannot accept him in part because he did not accept the results of the last election no matter the politics and this is at a time of bad

inflation and trump has made this a competitive race, but yes, he still may win because of the underlying factors going on, but let's be serious about what happened in the aftermath of the last election. he refused to concede the election. he sought to overturn election and there was a bloody riot on the steps of the capitol and so that is deeply sobering and it's why so many people in this country are dreading the aftermath of this election because he will never concede, no matter the result and it's incumbent on the good folks in your party, sara, to stand up and keep that from happening. if he does lose the election. >> that is what happened last time. >> people in the republican party -- >> half the party changed since then. >> is mike johnson tell donald trump to accept the results of election election -- >> i do think it's important to point out elon musk, one of his top supporters that january 6th was not violent, and there is a sense of already laying the groundwork for potential discord. we are out of time, guys. fantastic conversation.

thank you, thank you, thank you very much. that is all for today. thank you for watching and we'll be back next week because if it's sunday it's "meet the press." y. thank you for watching and we'll be back next week because if it's sunday it's "meet the press." but