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eight days to go. and the time growing short to make their closing arguments. only one candidate has opted for the in-your-face brazenly divisive audaciously offensive pitch to his fellow americans. a kind of coming attractions of what a second trump president would usher in and unleash on our fellow americans. it came to a head last night at a rally at madison square garden that the "new york times" describes this way. as, quote, a closing carnival of grievances, misogyny and racism, a release of rage, end quote. and this, quote, a vivid and at times racist display of a dark energy animating the maga movement. and they got right to it. the racism started right out of the gate. no warm-up. with one of the opening acts, this comedian named tony hinchcliffe. or cliffy. normally we would never platform this kind of racist rhetoric.

but there are eight days to go, and this is who trump picked to speak to the country with eight days to go. so we think it's important that you know who trump picked and what he said. >> there's a lot going on. like i don't know if you guys know this but there's literally a floating island of garbage in the middle of the ocean right now. yeah. i think it's called puerto rico? okay. all right. okay. we're getting there. >> how bad do you have to be to offend a crowd who chose to go there? that bad. now, the trump campaign is distancing itself, even though they saw the speech and loaded it into the same teleprompter from which donald trump read hours later. but they're saying this, quote, the joke does not reflect the views of president trump or the campaign. but again, be as the daily beast is today reporting, quote, the comedian's remarks were

preloaded into a teleprompter, indicating that they would likely have been vetted by the trump campaign in advance. but take the joke guy out of it. because it wasn't just a comment from a comedian. here's what the main events had to say, trump's surrogates. >> she is some sick [ bleep ], what hillary clinton, huh? what a sick son of a [ bleep ]. the whole party a bunch of degenerates. low lives. jew haters and low lives. every one of them. >> she is the devil, whoever screamed that out. she is the antichrist. >> she's a fake, a fraud. she's a pretender. her and her pimp handlers will destroy our country. >> it's going to be pretty hard to look at us and say you know what? kamala harris, she's just -- she got 85 million votes because she's just so impressive. as the first samoan malaysian

low-iq former california prosecutor ever to be elected president. it was just a groundswell of popular support. >> how on earth is fox getting by without him? so then the real -- the meat and potatoes of the night, trump, he took the stage two hours late and then following those men spewing hate and division and grievance and straight up racism and jokes so bad the maga crowd didn't laugh at them. trump had every opportunity to pivot, right? he had a platform to say you know what? that's not how i'm going to govern as president. you know, turn the temperature down, push back on the ugly rhetoric that preceded him. but he went with this instead. >> but they're smart and they're vicious. and we have to defeat them. and when i say the enemy from

within, the other side goes crazy, becomes a sound -- oh, how can he say? no, they've done very bad things to this country. they are indeed the enemy from within. but this is who we're fighting. the united states is now an occupied country. but it will soon be an occupied country no longer. not going to be happening. not going to be happening. november 5th, 2024. nine days from now will be liberation day in america. it's going to be liberation day. on day one i will launch the largest deportation program in american history. >> the guy who couldn't get covid tests across town is going to launch the largest deportation. even if you like that stuff, why do you think he could actually do it?

and make no mistake, going with hate as a closing argument is his choice it's chris lacivita's choice. they have chosen this. it's almost an mri of the entire trump movement. arguably an mri of donald trump the man. also as the daily beast reports, quote, political suicide because taking a wild racist swing at latino voters, every puerto rican voter in the country eight days out from election day, quote, will almost certainly alienate more voters who might have voted for trump. and it is hard to imagine that it has earned him one single new vote. by all measures a moronic political strategy, which leaves one explanation. one, maybe he's not trying to win. and also, this is who he is.

it's also important to tell you today that this exact location does have echoes in history, in our country's history. its ugliest chapters. later in the program today we're going to be joined by legendary documentary filmmaker ken burns. and you might remember his three-part series on the u.s. and the holocaust. it included footage from the now infamous pro-nazi rally in 1939 at madison square garden. >> no group was more adamantly opposed to admitting jewish refugees than the german american bund. 20,000 members would fill madison square garden on washington's birthday. they were led by fritz kuehne, a german immigrant who fancied himself the american fuhrer. >> what we are actively fighting for, first, a --

>> white rule of the u.s. so the location, the message, white rule of the united states, the parallels are right there in front of us. it's where we start with some of our favorite experts and friends. democratic congressman richie torres is here of new york, with me at the table co-host of msnbc's "the weekend" alicia menendez is here. and former rnc spokesman host of the bulwark podcast msnbc political analyst tim miller is here. congressman, i start with you. your thoughts. >> look, donald trump's rally was a buffet of bigotry. if you're a bigot you had all you can eat. racism and sexism, antisemitism, nativism. but for me the so-called joke from the so-called comedian was not the disease, it was a symptom. the disease is donald trump. there's no one in our politics who's more corrosive and more divisive. and to your point, donald trump

cannot distance himself from the hatred of those comments because he has spent his whole career stoking the flames of hatred and fear. like donald trump is not a firefighter. he's an arsonist who's intent on burning down anything resembling decency and civil discourse in our politics. >> whatever happens in a week, how do we move on from what we saw last night? >> it's hard to know. we have to -- you know, donald trump spoke of liberation. we have to liberate ourselves from donald trump because he is a deep rot at the very soul of our country. i mean, that rally was demagogic politics at its most despicable and its most dangerous, and he cannot help but be hateful. you know, expecting donald trump to be anything other than hateful is like expecting a circle to have three sides.

hatred is core to who he is and who he always has been. >> the purpose of language like that we heard at that rally, yes, is to whip up hatred and discord. it's also for those of us who come from these communities and these cultures to disempower us. and so i think it is important to remember as they attempt to do that just how much power latino voters and puerto ricans have. i'm thinking specifically of pennsylvania largely because it is well poised to be the tipping point state because it is a state where you have latinos representing about 5% of the electorate. half of that 5% is puerto rican. right? so yeah, folks on the island may not be able to vote for president but their cousin and their aunt who lives in pennsylvania -- >> their husbands and wives and best friends. the idea that it doesn't affect all of us is also wrong. >> correct. and the tell was one of the

number one rules of trumpism is you never apologize, you never say you were wrong, you never disavow. and what did we see? we saw the trump campaign trying to distance itself. you can't distance yourself from the speaker that you invited in and allowed to continue on stage, to you are why point that they loaded up the comments in the prompter. they knew what they were getting. but you also saw members of congress, congressman salazar, who has a competitive race in florida. you have senator rick scott trying to distance himself from this because they understand the power of this community and the power of this vote. >> tim. >> yeah, well, in addition to what we already learned about how they put it in the teleprompter so, we shouldn't even have to do this, my colleague mark caputo is just reporting just now that they actually cut a couple of his jokes. he had a joke in there that was going to call the vice president the c word. so they didn't -- >> oh, you know what? elon had taken care of it. his pac put that out. >> yeah, elon's pac put out the c word. i think the joke was going to sate whole world where elon's pac just calls it the c word.

pretty gross stuff. i would say the other thing. their statement, this doesn't represent who we are or whatever, obviously nonsense but it's just worth stating. donald trump jr. after that speech was retweeting and posting about how great that guy is, with the terrible jokes. but more than that. stephen miller, who will be i think maybe the most influential adviser in a second trump term, said during his remarks, america is for americans and americans only. which has a lot of 1939 echoes, for starters, and which is always kind of strange for a speech that featured elon musk from south africa and donald trump's wife as well who's not from america. a couple of them are. but more than that, it's like no, actually. that is the core message. like the guy's joke is also the campaign's message. just like slightly less crudely. you are not one of us. you are not welcome. you are lower than us. this is not -- we're in new york

city. you could have given a big speech at madison square garden about ellis island and the statue of liberty and how great this country is and how it's only in america that this could happen, that a businessman from queens, blah, blah, blah. you could have given that speech. but they didn't. they gave a speech that was america is for americans and americans only, included racist jokes targeting puerto ricans and blacks and other -- one latino joke that was so gross you can't even show it on here. >> trying to think about how to paraphrase it and you could not. >> go ahead and give us a description -- >> about how we love to have babies because we don't understand how to control our own fertility which is somehow parallel to the ways in which we enter this country. >> i'm going to need the cliff notes. congressman, let me show you some of the interview that really roiled the trump campaign last week. and our measure of that is to take a peek at local news. not just in the battleground states but across the country. and the story of the kelly tapes, four-star general john kelly's on the record interview,

the first time ever, talking about donald trump meeting every technical definition of a fascist is certainly a story that has broken through. let me play that for you. >> looking at the definition of fascism, it's a far right authoritarian ultranationalist political ideology and movement characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy. so certainly in my experience those are the kinds of things he thinks will work better in terms of running america i think. he's certainly an authoritarian, admires people who are dictators. he has said that. so he certainly falls into the

general definition of the fascist for sure. >> i guess my question, congressman, is at what point are we at a tipping point in your view in the minds of the voters and the american people and certainly your constituents? >> look, there was one sense in which the rally was a public service. it was a revelation of who donald trump is. the electorate has short memories, and i often worry that people forget just how corrosive and how destructive he can be. and the rally was a reminder that he is every bit as destructive and divisive as he's ever been and he will never improve. and american politics has to be liberated from donald trump and the corrosive influence that he has on our discourse and our politics. and there's no question in my mind that donald trump has a fascistic tendencies. he openly celebrates strongarm dictators. he openly celebrates the likes of xi jinping and vladimir putin and viktor orban.

that's not speculation. that's based on what donald trump himself has said. and he aims to be a strongman in the image of those men. >> can i tie just a few threads together that i think you're trying to pull here that relates to the fascism and then as a rhetorical question you ask about why i believe him about the deportations. well, on "60 minutes" last night as this rally was going on you had cecilia vega do an entire bit about this deportation plan, what it's going to cost, how you actually execute it. and you have tom holman, who was the acting director of i.c.e. under trump, saying, well, we can do it because we've done it before. cecilia says how can you guarantee that doesn't -- he says we can deport the entire family. to your point about stephen miller, donald trump may not be in the weeds on how he is operationalizing all of his fascist plans. but he has people behind him who are very happy to allow him to either win an election or -- and we'll talk about it in a little bit, make a secret side plan and

promise with speaker johnson about how they're going to do it. and then they will execute the actual policy and the vision. >> and the difference between this campaign and '16 when the first i think reports were that they couldn't turn the lights on in the roosevelt room in the west wing, is that it's all on paper. i've not read all 900 pages but i have read the immigration section of project 2025. they're ready to go. >> yeah. it's all on paper. and in addition to that the types of people that were restrainers to different levels of success at various times are all gone. look at who was speaking at that rally last night. early on you had mike johnson and elise stefanik, who are awful in their own ways but somewhat resemble an earlier republican party. the last eight speakers were like rfk and tulsi and a couple wrestling people and like the trump family and elon. they intend to run a

kleptocracy -- an oligarchy kleptocracy where the people on the inner circle are either anti-immigrant and extremists or crazy -- or former democrats who have like gone crazy, took the red pill and gone crazy. those are the people that are going to be around. there's no john kellys. there's no gary cohns. whatever you think about those people. trump has a plan, they put it on pamer in project 2025. and the people around him are going to be the most extreme. one last thing i was thinking about as you were talking going back to that joke-i just have to close the lid on this. it was trump that said last week that america is a garbage can. right? so there's actually literally no difference in making a joke that puerto rico is a pile of garbage in the ocean and america is a garbage can for the world. it's the same comment, it's just one guy was trying to make a joke and donald trump is serious. >> and neither was funny. >> and that's what he thinks of the country. they don't think that it's -- that immigration is our strength, we're a shining city on the hill. he this i in the country's a garbage can and the way to fix it is to kick out as many people

as they can. that's their agenda and it was abundantly clear. >> how do you make sure every voter hears this? >> well, i think it's going to be part of the vice president's job tomorrow on the ellipse, on january 6th. just i have a little bit of a nitpick with the superpacs that are kind of running pretty generic ads about the middle class which i know test well but in the last week i think we could use a little scaring of them. and look, i think it's important that hopefully the puerto rico moment can really try to put a finer line for people in the latino community who are not paying as close of attention. think about what this looks like. think about what it's -- maybe you're going to be okay with deporting the murderer or gang member. but what happens when they go into a quinceanera and they'll be like two people are undocument bud one's a brother so we'll have to detain you for a little while. that is what their plan is. they're not going to be efficient about it. and they're planning on rounding people up and sending them home. and i think that talking about that plainly rather than in highfalutin ways is useful.

>> bad bunny also helps. the fact you have the largest global superstar saying, you know, sharing kamala harris content. not -- >> doesn't hurt. we have so much more. no one's going anywhere. when we all come back, more from yesterday's -- what are we calling it? festius of hate? something that got lost in the hate and racism. donald trump last night let the mask slip about his secret that he's keeping, or not anymore, with house speaker mike johnson, something they plan to reveal after the election. plus trump's campaign against the media and corporate billionaires behind the media. what their silence says to the wannabe autocrat running for president again. and later in the broadcast former first lady michelle obama on the campaign trail as only she ever is. her plea to men to take women's health and women's lives, their mothers, their daughters, their

sisters, to take all that seriously. that message now just eight days until election day and much, much more when "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere unless you plan to go vote. an to go vote. are they really gonna spend all day streaming college football on directv? can you blame them? they've got the biggest rivalries...

...and bowl games! speaking of, frank run a slant to the bowl of chips. bobby, button-hook to the salsa. what are you gonna do coach prime? don't question your coach, man. san francisco's leadership is failing us. that's why mark farrell is endorsing prop d. because we need to tackle our drug and homelessness crisis just like mark did as our interim mayor. mark farrell endorsing prop d, to bring the changes we need for the city we love.

san francisco's leadership is failing us. that's why mark farrell is endorsing prop d. because we need to tackle our drug and homelessness crisis

just like mark did as our interim mayor. mark farrell endorsing prop d, to bring the changes we need for the city we love. and i think with our little secret we're going to do really well with the house, right? our little secret is having a big impact. he and i have a secret. we'll tell you what it is when the race is over. >> our little secret. we show it to you because with the political version of a freakoff it's easy to lose that

little reveal. right? donald trump bragging to the crowd in front of a podium that he and his pal, speaker mike johnson, have a secret, a plan for, quote, after the election. and given mike johnson and his republican allies' track record, liz cheney calls him the architect of the legal plot behind the insurrection, when it comes to disrespecting the will of the american voters is raising alarm bells about the threat that may loom should republicans some congress hold any power come 2025. mike johnson might be the man to do all of donald trump's bidding this time to overturn a potential election defeat. and again, don't listen to us. here's liz cheney. >> i do not have faith that mike johnson will fulfill his constitutional obligations. and if you just look at what he did in 2020, he knew and he knew with specificity that the claims of fraud that donald trump was

making and that he was repeating, he knew those to be false. we had very clear and specific conversations about that. he knew that courts had specifically found that those claims were false. he has a record repeatedly of doing things that he knows to be wrong, that he knows to be unconstitutional, in order to placate donald trump. i think it's very important that the republicans not be in the majority in the house come january 2025. >> congressman, your thoughts about liz cheney's warning. >> well, i agree that the republicans should not be in the majority in 2025. and i'm confident that we're going to take back the house. but you know, january 6th was my third day on the job. my colleagues and i saw firsthand the insurrection that donald trump inspired on january 6th. but what was even as troubling as the insurrection itself was the fact that half the house republican congress voted to decertify the election even after experiencing a violent

assault on the u.s. capitol. and that was mostly out of fear of donald trump. and that fear has only deepened. donald trump's grip on the psyche of the republican party has only tightened in the four years since january 6. so i completely agree that the republicans have no business governing what has been an ungovernable house under their leadership. >> i know, like my head knows that everything he's saying is true. but my gut's like look at him. he slurs. he sways. he reveals the secret plot to steal the election from podiums. and they're all in? >> especially when generally what you talk about on the presidential stump is your plans, the audacity that people are like -- kamala harris needs to tell me more about her plan. he's telling you his plans which he's supposed to sell to you so he has a popular mandate in order to enact them is a secret with a guy who has an actually incredibly perilous place within his own caucus who you are now promising is going to be there, which means you think you're

winning the house, and on top of that you think that he is going to continue to lead this caucus even though at every turn they have tried to kick him out? it is not a secret. it's a threat. and we all hear and understand what it is that they're saying. >> just one second of levity. >> please. >> i was watching there and i was like one thing we know for sure now, there's no aliens and we went to the moon. because if there are any secrets like the government has, donald trump is not capable of keeping them. you know, so -- >> which is actually terrifying, right? >> that is terrifying. >> i mean, the other big story in the news is that he's going to skip the background check process. at every level -- even the jokes about donald trump are scary. >> dang. you brought me back down. that's true. it is ominous. look, who the heck knows what secret he's talking about? the plan to send this thing to

the house and have 26 house delegations install donald trump as president is not a secret. so i don't know if that's what he's talking about or not. but if it is we're all in on it. and so i think the one piece of good news from the midterms is that the republicans really failed at controlling a lot of these state legislatures and governorships. imagine if we were in a situation where kari lake is the governor of arizona and they had a maga speaker, satellite so thank goodness that thanks to roe and thanks to the republicans putting up these lunatics in 2022 -- >> and the democrats running good races. >> the democrats running good races. that threat is a little lower than it could have been. but the plan, that's still what ire they're going to try to do. >> and the only way to defeat the plan -- what i think is so amazing in all the conversations i have in my normal life on the weekends is none of this has happened yet. election day is next tuesday. so if any of this sounds icky to you, vote. i want to show you the ad that the harris campaign has just turned around about last night. >> a floating island of garbage

in the middle of the ocean. i think it's called puerto rico? >> puerto rico. >> i will never forget what donald trump did. he abandoned the island and offered nothing more than paper towels and insults. puerto ricans deserve better. as president i will always fight for you and your families. and together we can chart a new way forward. >> i'm kamala harris, and i approve this message. >> i'm turning to you because you know the vote. >> there are days on campaigns, you both know this from having been on campaigns, where it's like she was out there this weekend with a message for puerto rico and for puerto ricans talking about sort of making recovery times faster, making sure they get their funds faster, talking about economic opportunity on the island, talking about modernizing their electricity grid. and she is doing that, this proactive message that it's hard to break through in the last few days, the split screen is donald

trump and his acolytes talking about puerto rico and denigrating trump. the side by side could not be sharper. and i know i talked about pennsylvania. i also want to be clear it's not just pennsylvania. it's also wisconsin. it is also georgia. and it's north carolina. so when you're talking about any of these states on the mairjz here, even though latinos may not represent a huge portion of the electorate those margins are going to matter. >> of course. thousands of people are determining an election. congressman, i'm going to give you the last word. and just give us your thoughts on how people approaching election day should think about it. >> what's on the ballot is our democracy, is our freedom. a second trump presidency would be far more vindictive than the first trump presidency. one key difference between the first and a hypothetical second is the supreme court's

presidential immunity decision. like donald trump has absolute immunity when he's exercising executive power. so he can direct his attorney general to prosecute his political rivals and that is absolutely immune from prosecution. he can direct his securities and exchange commission or his ftc to target enemies in corporate america. all of that is absolutely immune from prosecution. and even worse, he could expand the far right supermajority in the supreme court. and as you know, when the supreme court was overturning roe vs. wade clarence thomas said the conservatives should overturn bergerfeld vs. hodges. and the rights of privacy and the right to contraception and in vitro fertilization. so all of these freedoms are existentially threatened by the prospect, by the specter of a second trump presidency. >> congressman richie torres, it's great to get to talk to you. thank you for making some time for us today. alicia and tim stick around for the hour. much more with our table. we'll look at why a growing crop

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yeah, get my harness. buy one line of unlimited, get one free for a year with xfinity mobile. and see wicked, only in theaters november 22nd. life, diabetes, there's no slowing down. each day is a unique blend of people to see and things to do. that's why you choose glucerna to help manage blood sugar response. uniquely designed with carbsteady. glucerna. bring on the day. i think that there's a complete move among ceos, business leaders and others who are now at minimum, quote unquote, hedging their bets and they're saying to themselves, you know what, if i can be in

the line of fire or be out of the line of fire i'd prefer to be out of the line of fire. i am not saying that this is a great moment in history, joe, when i say this. but i think that that is the perspective of those people that are taking that position. >> hedging their bets. again, not between democrat and republican. this is the first non-partisan election in modern history. between democracy and autocracy. this is who they are. that was cnbc's andrew ross sorkin on the news and the reporting that the "washington post" is breaking their tradition and not endorsing anybody in the presidential race despite all their extraordinary journalism about it. reportedly out of fear of retribution from trump. "washington post" owner jeff bezos isn't alone, though, in making this choice to hedge as to whether or not you support democracy or autocracy, whether or not you think your bottom line is safer in an autocracy. post reports this, quote,

numerous billionaires and other leading executives have taken steps in recent months to stay out of the race, even if they had criticized trump. others who previously backed democrats have stayed silent in this election. case in point, warren buffett. he's so rich i can't imagine him not doing whatever the hell he wants. ceo of berkshire hathaway? he previously endorsed democrats in the year 2008, in the year 2012, and in the year 2016. but he announced last week not going to do it. not endorsing in this race. mark zuckerberg founder and ceo of meta, claims he left politics, staying out entirely, chose this year to do it, all while making overtures to donald trump and other republican political leaders who previously attacked him and targeted his businesses and workforce. "new york times" reports that this guy, titan, jpmorgan ceo jamie dimon, "new york times"

reports that he supports vice president kamala harris. he wants her to be president but doesn't want to tell anybody. quote, he's fearful that if trump is victorious he could retaliate against the people and companies who publicly opposed his run. so the fear doesn't appear to be unfounded given that trump repeatedly targets companies who have opposed him and promised to aid business leaders who back him i guess until they don't. case in point, hours after the post announce td would not endorse a presidential candidate trump met with executives from jeff bezos's space exploration company blue origin. maybe he's going to set up a cage match between him and elon. all this is ridiculous and sick and pathetic. but it's also important on the path to autocracy. that's where we are, guys. and it's a clear signal that what trump's doing is working. friend of the show, democracy

expert ian bassen in an eerily prescient piece earlier this month wrote this, quote, trump's campaign against the media has taken time to have its intended effect but have an effect it has. and the trajectory, discernible now in hindsight, does not bode well for the media should trump return to power. joining us at the table, co-founder and executive director of protect democracy ian bhasin's here with his yankees hat which we'll put on before -- after we talk about the end of democracy. i should say i work at a media company and have the privilege of covering this story, your writing, drawing on your expertise. and when i came back from maternity leave i launched a series called "american autocracy: it could happen here." and i cannot believe if this is the conversation we're having now. >> and i think it tells us some important things about three groups of people. the first group of people are the people behind our institutions because let's face it our institutions are made up of actual human beings, people,

and what this set of developments tells us is that those people as we've seen from all the people you just identified are very likely to fold in the face of these threats and attacks and sort of trump's plan of retaliation -- >> but why? >> well, and this is the second thing it tells us, because they believe he will do it. that's why. and they believe, and this is important, i think jonathan last wrote this very accurately in the bulwark recently, where tim works, which is they don't feel that the rule of law, that due process, that the system we have in this country to protect everybody, to make sure that you only get in trouble if you actually violate the rules, not because some powerful person like donald trump simply doesn't like you. and so the second thing this tells us is that these -- there's a question now that people -- you talk to trump supporters and how could you support him when he says he's going to sic the military on american people or retaliate

against people who don't support him in his campaign. and what a lot of them will tell you is he doesn't really mean that. >> i've had those conversations all weekend. i said are you going to miss your friends who are here illegally? and they said they're not going to send him back. >> well, here's the thing. you know who thinks he's going to do that? jeff bezos thinks he's going to do that. warren buffett thinks he's going to do that. the most powerful people in this country who have every reason to feel that they would be protected. the only reason they're doing this is because they believe he'll do it. >> i believe him. but that makes their choice more reprehensible. because what is the example of appeasing an autocrat that worked? >> and this is the failure that we are facing here as a country. there's two paths we can go down. one is we give in to this dynamic that i call autocratic capture where an autocrat whether it's erdogan in turkey or orban in hungary or putin in russia and trump here essentially says unless you toe the political line, unless you bow down and pledge your political fealty and loyalty to me i will make it impossible for

you to operate in a free society, compete in the market plaips, whatever. so they give in to him and empower him. that's one choice. the other choice, though, and steve levitsky and daniel ziblatt the authors of the book "how democracies die" wrote about is this the other day. in countries that survive moments like this is what they call societal mobilization, which is people do the opposite of what bezos is doing right now. they stand up in a moment like, this they sound the alarm, they come together across divides and say not on our watch. and we still have eight days left to see us turn from giving in to autocratic capture to something more like societal mobilization. >> i guess my last question on this is -- well, a comment. if rich people picked presidents who would have seen a president romney, president gore and president kerry. so rich people don't choose presidents. but they do have to live with their public statements afterward. and where does it leave american business if they sided with the autocrat? >> there's two places it could leave them. one is what hosni mubarak did in egypt to stay in power for 30 years is he made sure that the

bread of the oligarchs was buttered. right? that's what vladimir putin diddish. >> but only if trump wins. >> here's the other thing that they're thinking, is that if he wins they're in trouble but maybe he won't. right? maybe he won't. >> but they didn't help. >> they're just hedging their bets. >> and here's the question if that's their calculus, if that's their gamble and then they find themselves on the butt end of this after will they regret what they didn't do when they had the chance? i think they will. >> here's the other thing. i've covered trump for nine years. so they all fall in line. they bend at the knee while he's like behind at the polls, which is politically idiotic. i don't know who their advisers are. and he wins and one of their kids tweets a fat picture of trump and says -- they'll punish that company anyway. no matter what jamie dimon did or didn't do. he's not substantive. he's not going to say i need banking. he's going to say his daughter's, you know, a you know what and i'm going to punish his company. >> the thing about autocratic

capture is the autocrat will come for each of these people at a time of trump's choosing, not theirs. but they will eventually come for them. and the two words that i would say as a reminder to the jeff bezos of the world are mikhail khodorkovsky, who was the wealthiest, most successful businessman in russia and tried in various ways to try to accommodate what was happening in russia but ended up finding himself stripped of his businesses, exiled and ultimately jailed. because there's no way to win this fight with the autocrat. all these men i think are doing is delaying the reckoning that's coming for them. >> we all want to get in on this. i'll sneak in a quick break. i'll let you wear your yankees hat on the other side. don't go anywhere. kees hat on the other side. don't go anywhere. , covid-19, and rsv. vaccines lower your risk, so you can keep doing more. ♪♪ missing out on the things you love because of asthma? get back to better breathing

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why qunol? it has superior absorption compared to regular turmeric. qunol. the brand i trust. we are bursting with questions for ian and because baseball's our only chance we let you wear that. alicia. >> when bezos decided that the "washington post" wasn't going to issue an endorsement you saw a lot of subscribers saying they were going to unsubscribe from the "washington post." a reporter begging mom please don't go i want you to read my articles. for those of us who are not billionaires aside from voting what is the proper recourse in these moments? >> well, look, i want to empathize with the emotional rage and frustration that people felt. but i agree that canceling your subscription to the "washington post" probably does more to hurt the really brave incredible journalists there who are getting us information we need than it does -- it's a rounding error for jeff bezos's balance statements. i don't think that's the right response. the right response is actually

kind of the opposite because the way these autocrats operate is they pick a target to go after. someone that they want to silence. someone they want to take off the playing field. and they bring law enforcement against them. they bring the regulatory state against them. in some countries they will spin up paramilitary type groups to threaten them. we've seen some of that here with trump going after, say, the clerk in the new york state court system who then receives death threats. and in those moments it's a big pivot because if those people are seen to suffer then others look at it and they get chilled and they back off the playing field. but if those people are seen to get a surge of support where the whole country comes behind them and stands with them and they look like they're thriving, more than just surviving they're thriving, then people all of a sudden feel that it's okay for them to come out and do the same thing. so in a situation like this we want to run to support the workers -- the journalists at the "washington post." journalists around the country. they're key. we don't want to abandon them. and we want to do that because they're going to go after other targets and anytime that happens it is critical we all stand up

and say i'm with them. autocracies, countries on the brink the autocrat is empowered when the pro-democracy side fractures? >> absolutely. if you look across the world, the way that countries if they can survive this moment we're in where these sort of autocratic movements are dismantling democratic systems, it normally is a broad coalition that comes together across differences. you saw this in the czech republic. you saw this in poland. where people say -- and this is what liz cheney's been saying on the trail. that we could disagree about what the top marginal tax rate should be or how we should regulate health care or how we should regulate energy but we can agree that the way we resolve those differences is through a peaceful democratic process that's protected and that we have to protect that. because here's the thing. if you were on the fence right now and you're not -- you don't really like donald trump and maybe you don't like kamala harris, if kamala harris maybe she does a good job as president, maybe she doesn't do a good job as president.

but you'll have a choice in four years about whether to keep her or reject her. you'll have the freedom to choiz. that's fundamentally different with donald trump. because whether he does a good job or not, in four years you will not have that choice because he has already proven with his actions that he will never leave power voluntarily. >> tim is bursting. we're going to give him the rest of the show. i have to sneak in a quick break before we do that. don't go anywhere, though. where.

you founded your kayak company because you love the ocean. not spreadsheets... you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. our matching platform lets you spend less time searching and more time connecting with candidates. visit indeed.com/hire tim, and i have been on a similar journey. it always starts with like nasty vicious rejection from our

former republican peers. what do you think of this? >> and also, by the way, who cares? yeah, sure, we have nasty rejection from some of our former peers. but good riddance. >> privately mike mitch mcconnell called trump a despicable human being. >> i'm just listening to ian and just kind of the rage is bubbling up inside of me. the positive thing i want to say first is thank god for mark cuban and liz cheney. it's insane that we're here, by the way. but we know that it actually is not -- it's not unbearably scary to do this because they're doing it. why there aren't a hundred of them i don't know. mark cuban shouldn't have to be on every program on cnbc -- >> but thank god he is. >> but thank god he is. so thank you to mark cuban for not being autocratically captured. but the other guys, look, i talked to bob kagan on the board podcast this morning who is on the "washington post" editorial board who is a historian, who's an expert in authoritarian regimes and he quit on friday. right? and it's like jeff bezos has

this person at his disposal. could have called him and said what do you think about this, i'm weighing back and forth, i'm a little scared, and he would have probably said the same thing ian said to him, this is a loser in the medium to long term, you're going to go down the path of whoever that russian guy was if you do this, and he has to be stopped now. and that's the obvious thing to do, and for all the people in the world out there right now, immigrants, family member of immigrants, trans kids, the people -- the shaye and ruby moss and every person that is going to go out next tuesday to work at their voting place and be menaced by some maga freak, all of those people are putting themselves on the line, and fact that a billionaire can't. >> it's appalling. >> appalling. >> to be continued? go yankees? alicia menendez, tim miller, ian bhasin, thank you so much. when we come back, former first lady michelle obama with a warning about what a second

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anyone thinking about sitting out this election or voting for donald trump or a third-party candidate in protest because you're fed up, let me warn you, your rage does not exist in a vacuum. if we don't get this election right, your wife, your daughter, your mother, we as women will become collateral damage to your rage. [ cheers and applause ] are you as men prepared to look into the eyes of the women and children you love and tell them that you supported this assault on our safety? >> hi again, everybody. don't sleep on the men. they heard from michelle obama this weekend. it's 5:00 in new york.

in 2016 she told us to go high when they go low. in 2020 she effectively appealed to our better angels. and just a few months ago she told the pro-democracy americans among us to, quote, do something. now with just over one week until election day former first lady michelle obama isn't messing around anymore because with women's reproductive health care and freedoms hanging in the balance next tuesday the stakes literally are life and death for every woman in america. it's not hyperbole. it's not an exaggeration. it's what happens next week. in her very first appearance on the campaign trail since her speech at the democratic national convention, michelle obama in kalamazoo, michigan made a very specific and artful plea to men. especially men who do not feel like the assault on women's reproductive rights affects them at all. watch.

>> so to the men who love us, let me just try to paint a picture of what it will feel like if america, the wealthiest nation on earth, keeps revoking basic care from its women and how it will affect every single woman in your life. your girlfriend could be the one in legal jeopardy if she needs a pill from out of state or overseas or if she has to travel across state lines because the local clinic closed up. your wife or mother could be the ones at higher risk of dying from undiagnosed cervical cancer because they have no access to regular gynecological care. your daughter could be the one too terrified to call the doctor if she's bleeding during an unexpected pregnancy. this will not just affect women. it will affect you and your sons. the devastating consequences of

teen pregnancy won't just be borne by young girls but also by the young men who are the fathers. they too will have their dreams of going to college, their entire futures totally upended by an unwanted pregnancy. if you and your partner are expecting a child, you will be right by her side at the checkups, terrified if her blood pressure is too high or if there's an issue with the placenta or if the ultrasound shows that the embryo was implanted in the wrong place and the doctors aren't sure that they can intervene to keep the woman you love safe. i am asking y'all from the core of my being to take our lives seriously. please. [ cheers and applause ] >> an unbelievable plea asking every man in the country to think about us, the women they

love, who in most cases are there if we have a miscarriage or something goes wrong as she said. michelle obama asking every man in this country to think about what happens if all of our access to health care goes away next tuesday. hasn't happened yet. but that's what's on the line. and then on the other side over at madison square garden the republican party's choice to represent them as their presidential nominee surrounded himself, cloaked himself in hatred, racism, cruelty and incoherence. to the women overwhelmed by all that toxic masculinity michelle obama had a little something for that -- to say to them too. >> you are a woman who lives in a household of men that don't listen to you or value your opinion. just remember that your vote is a private matter.

regardless of the political views of your partner, you get to choose. you get to use your judgment and cast your vote for yourself and the women in your life. remember, women standing up for what is best for us can make the difference in this election. so let us use our voices in these final days to make it plain to the men in our lives that we need to stand not with trump but with us. >> the former first lady giving a brand new permission structure to the women of america, even the ones with trump-vance yard signs on their front lawns. it's secret. do what you know is right for you. put your freedom and your daughter's freedom and your sister's freedom and health first. it's a message that could make or break this race that is still so tight and hasn't happened

yet. this weekend a new ipsos poll finds vice president kamala harris leading trump by four points among likely voters, by two among registered voters. it gets us back to the question michelle obama raises at the top of that speech. >> i've got to ask myself, why on earth is this race even close? i lay awake at night wondering what in the world is going on. and it's clear to me that the question isn't whether kamala is ready for this moment, because by every measure she has demonstrated that she's ready. the real question is as a country are we ready for this moment? [ cheers and applause ] >> that's where we start the hour with some of our most favorite experts and friends. former senator, host of msnbc's "how to win 2024" podcast, claire mccaskill's here. also joining, former assistant u.s. attorney, president of the

leadership conference on civil and human rights maya wiley's here. with me at the table for the hour distinguished political scholar professor at princeton university eddie glaude is here. claire, i watched that speech and remembered the day you were the first person i called and the first person who spoke on the day of dobbs. i think it was the first time i saw you cry on television. and i remembered that because you're a rock. right? you're all sass and straight talk. and i think there was an understanding among women of what that would mean. and now we have the data point -- now i know why you cried that day. two women in georgia have lost their lives. one a mother of a young boy, 6-year-old. he's an orphan because his mom died because of donald trump's abortion bans. what do you think about michelle obama's pledge? >> first of all, when you put her on like that right before

you make me talk, then i start crying again. it's so mean of you to do that. and i've got to say i don't know how this happened in america but how did the number one and number two, and i'm not saying which is which, best speakers in america, how did they end up married to each other? i mean, it's just unbelievable. her speech, if you haven't watched it and you're feeling down and anxious and you want to get motivated, go online and watch her speech. it was masterful. and i'll tell you, i voted today. i've got my sticker on. and we have an issue on the ballot about women's freedom because in our state you can't -- there's no exceptions and it's conception -- from the moment of conception it's a person and so forth. and we have it on the ballot. and voting today i had several young ladies walk up to me and

who recognized who i was and they said we've got it, we've got it. and they were so excited and so motivated to be there to vote on that issue. and she's right. your vote is a secret. now, i will say this. if you're married to somebody who's voting for trump and if you can't talk to them firmly and quietly, then vote secretly. you but if you can try to get them to watch part of michelle obama's speech. or if they won't then you tell them what she said. if you love me, understand, a freedom has been taken away from me that risks women's health. why would you ever want to be for anyone who made that happen in america? i think it's very powerful. >> i mean, maya, if you can't get them to watch michelle obama's speech, which we'll post the whole thing afterward. it will be studied for a very long time along with her convention speech.

get them to watch liz cheney. she talked about it too. and liz cheney is one of the politicians i most closely associate with prolife policies. and liz cheney at an event last week said this has gone too far, that the pro-life movement cannot be associated with laws that lead to women's death. if you're ever wondering how this is it, it's that bad. >> it's that bad. and i think one of the things that was so powerful about michelle obama's speech is she didn't shy away from it. she went directly there. but she went there in the most powerful ways because she did it, and to claire's point about what a masterful speech, one, did was heartfelt. it was authentic. i have to say, we know any single woman or girl, because this is also girls this happens to, girls who have i have been

raped or victims of incest, that this is a reality that people are experiencing right now. and any one woman or one girl this happens to is one woman or girl too many. when we're talking about it fundamentally as the health care that it is. she demonstrated in real practice terms, emotional terms, human terms walking us all through, reminding all of us here but in particular men and boys -- and i say boys because i'm old. if you're old enough to have a baby doesn't mean you're old enough to be a father. the consequences of that. a reminder how it will feel if you're in this position and it's all too likely. and at the dnc remember, they had women who have had this experience. i just think one of the things that was so important about this, though, watching michelle obama as a black woman. because we know that when we're talking about amber thurman, the mother who you mentioned, the mother who had a child, the mother who wanted another child,

the mother who is now dead was a black woman. and that michelle obama as a black woman is talking also for a community of women who are dying at three and four times the rate when they are pregnant and that this health care is not serving to keep us alive. and so if we're going to be about life then we have to recognize that means about the health care, that includes abortion and not criminalizing it. so i think that she embodies so much that is such a real clear and present reality but that she did it in that way that is the connection, the actual real emotional connection to what's on the line, not just the data points, not just the wonk but the reality. >> she travels in like the gullies of the pits of our stomach. she travels right in there and she cleans it out. here's what she said about her

frustration about the double standard. >> i hope you'll forgive me if i'm a little frustrated that some of us are choosing to ignore donald trump's gross incompetence while asking kamala to dazzle us at every turn. i hope that you'll forgive me if i'm a little angry that we are indifferent to his erratic behavior, his obvious mental decline, his history as a convicted felon, a known slumlord, a predator found liable for sexual abuse, all of this while we pick apart kamala's answers from interviews that he doesn't even have the courage to do, y'all. [ cheers and applause ] >> this, maya, and i want to bring you in on this too, this is about where we're broken.

if there is an event that is billed as something that will help voters make a decision and one person shows up and the other stands it up because he's afraid to share a stage with her because she kicked his ass from new york to san francisco the last time he tried that, the job of the lens, is it to zoom in on the one that showed up and say -- well, like gymnastics, the vault has never been done before and it was a gorgeous vault but there was a little stutter step on the landing, i don't know. the other guy didn't even fricking show up. >> right. >> what's wrong with us that we can sit there and be like, mm, a couple of the answers were fine? >> well, i think this is a really important question for the way in which the state and the media functions in our democracy. and it connects with what you guys talked about last hour in terms of autocratic capture. we have to understand these

skorpgss are about profit making. we have to gin up interest, keep the controversy going. we're giving one guy a break as you sane-wash him in order to make it seem like a reasonable race and the other one you put under a microscope. part of that is in some ways tied to, nicolle, this ongoing obsession with covering politics in a way that's entertainment. but let me say this as a footnote about her appeal to men. just really quickly. because it hit me so hard. and she made two really substantive moves. women who are caught in patriarchal situations disaagreeing with their husbands and people they love, you don't have to engage in an explicit argument. do you. do what's good for you. >> keep the trump-vance sign on the front yard, honey. >> exactly.

and the other move which was so important for me was the substance of your love. it's not an abstract question. if you love your baby, if you love your wife, if you love your mother, your sister, you love the people around you, how does that evidence itself in the choices you make? and so it's a question that cuts through politics and hits us right at the personal level. i don't give a damn whether somebody's republican or democrat. you. i care about you. i love you. and i want the best for you. and so she was on that terrain, and that was to me compelling. >> eddie always makes me about to cry. but here's what i want to ask you, claire. i see all the data about the gender divide and i believe it in my deepest gut. i think we're sleeping on men. i don't think every -- i think at the end of the day any man that has sex that results in a

pregnancy that that couple's not ready for or isn't even a couple understands that that baby will be a state-mandated pregnancy and child forever, their responsibility forever. i think every couple trying to have kids that wants to turn to ivf knows at least one state has already banned that and it gets really hard everywhere with the kinds of laws you're talking about on the ballot in missouri. i think anyone who had skids when they were older technically has a high-risk pregnancy and every day is terrifying. you're terrified for your baby most of all. and yourself. and if you're a man your wife second of all. for 40 long weeks. and i do not think men are indifferent to the dror that women feel about being pregnant in america in 2024. >> i hope not. and i think you're right about many men, nicolle. a lot of it depends on where they are in terms of their lives, how old they are. what experiences they've had.

certainly the men whose wives -- couples who've struggled with fertility and who have struggled with numerous miscarriages, they understand how they can get caught up in these laws in ways that could deprive them of ever having a family either because their wife is no longer able to give birth or because they don't have access to the science that would allow them to have a child. so i do think there are a lot of men there. but there's also a lot of men i think that haven't thought about it that much and maybe women need to make sure they're thinking about it more. and i think donald trump appeals to men on a false sense of strength. i think the men that see donald trump as strong are ultimately pretty weak. because strength is not looking down your nose at everyone else. ronald reagan ended his campaign with "it's morning in america." donald trump is ending his campaign saying "america is a garbage can."

and having somebody stand up and say america is only for americans. and by the way, that's a direct hitler quote. it was in the st. louis post dispatch in 1940. an interview of hitler where he said those exact words. the hate that they are spewing at the close of this campaign is not a sign of strength. that's a sign of somebody who's scared, who's scared of anybody who's different than they are. and that's not strong. that's very, very weak. and i think there's a lot of men that recognize that, and i think we're counting on them. >> and i will never understand the association between trump and masculinity, with the makeup and the tape in the hair and the -- i'll never for the life of me grasp that. or the guy that governor walz calls a skipping dip bleep. i mean, i'll never understand what that's about. but i'll work on it. claire mccaskill, maya wiley, thank you for starting us off. eddie sticks around. when we come back, former

attorney general eric holder will be here. we'll ask him about new warnings that extremists fueled by conspiracy theories could pose a violent threat to this election season. also ahead, before the disgraced ex-president's madison square garden event his critics drew parallels to a nazi rally held right there in the year 1939. but after the racism and vitriol we heard last night the conversation is unavoidable. we're going to have it with the great documentary filmmaker ken burns. he'll be our guest on that right here at the table. don't go anywhere today. unless you're going to vote. unless you're going to vote. it has a built-in solution that breaks down dirt on contact. plus, it's 360-degree swivel head cleans up along baseboards and even behind the toilet. bye, bye bucket. with the swiffer powermop. hi, my name is damian clark. if you have both medicare and medicaid, i have some really encouraging news that you'll definitely want to hear. depending on the plans available in your area, you may be eligible to get extra benefits with

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go until election day in america. a large number of americans already showing up to the polls to vote early where they can. dhs and fbi according to nbc news's reporting are warning state and local law enforcement of this. quote, domestic extremists with grievances rooted in election-related conspiracy theories including beliefs in widespread voter fraud and animosity toward perceived political opponents as the most likely threat of violence in the coming election. according to a joint intelligence bulletin revealed by nbc news the dhs and fbi identified domestic extremists as a threat to the election process from election day through the inauguration. despite this threat environment, sisa director jen easterly assures that election workers are ready to deal with any potential disruptions. >> there could be a ransomware attack on an election office. there could be a bomb threat called in. the thing to remember is that

these incidents while disruptive will not impact the security and integrity of americans being able to cast their ballot or those ballots being counted as cast. the other piece of good news is election officials have been preparing for this for years. they have been training and exercising and working through a full range of disruptive scenarios so they have contingency plans in place to deal with disruptions. >> joining our conversation, former attorney general eric holder is here. thank you so much for being here. >> it's good to see you, nicolle. >> i think even when i report on the bulletin that for the extremists the threat is the point. right? that people might feel afraid is at least one point in their column. tell me how we run up the score on the pro-democracy side. >> well, i think people need to understand that as was just

said, these are threats that have been contemplated before. there are contingency plans in place. and i'm really confident that with the combination of federal, state and local law enforcement, with the intelligence that has been gathered that the process for the average voter is going to be a good one. and there are other options that people have. if you're concerned about going to a polling place, well, you can drop off a ballot early at a dropbox perhaps. you can mail in your ballot. there are a number of ways in which people can get their votes counted. you go to iwillvote.com and it sets out a whole range of ways in which you can vote. but the one thing that we can't give in to is this fear. the reality is that this is as big an election as i think we've certainly had in my lifetime and it cannot be that people will not participate out of fear. maybe this is going to be

difficult. but guess what? america, we do hard things. americans do hard and difficult things. and this is in some ways, it potentially could be a test of our commitment to our democracy. the alternative, to stay away and to allow people to threaten us, not cast our ballots, and end up with a government that is not dedicated to our democracy, is something that is simply unacceptable. and that, that should be a driver to get everybody to participate in this most crucial of elections. >> you and i had a conversation a few months back about understanding what trump had planned and being afraid of it because he's not hiding it this time. he's on hyperdrive since we had that conversation. may i show you what he had to say yesterday about enemies within? we'll talk about it on the other side. >> when i say the enemy from within, the other side goes crazy. becomes a sound -- oh, how can

he say -- no, they've done very bad things to this country. they have indeed the enemy from within. but this is who we're fighting. >> dr. phil, i'm not sure if he's a real doctor, and laura ingraham and all sorts of people have tried to give trump a chance to walk that back, knowing oh, that's not what you mean, you're not really going to get revenge. and he says damn right i am. he's calling the code red. what do you hear as the former attorney general when you hear that and you know of his burning desire to use doj to do what he describes, prosecute the enemy within? >> well, i hear a number of things. first off, i hear echoes of 1930s fascists who talked about vermin, enemies from within, poisoning the blood. we saw what happened there. one of the realities people have to understand is fascism rose in europe in the 1930s not because

fascism was strong but because the defense of democracy was weak. and we cannot allow ourselves to be weak in the defense of our democracy here. as a prosecution, as a former attorney general i hear these kinds of things and i this about, well, we have to make sure that we have all of our law enforcement resources focused on these issues. a, to prevent these things from happening. and then b, to hold people accountable who would be engaged in these kinds of activities. and one other thing. there are -- we have insurance policies here. i'm here in alabama campaigning for shomari figures who's running for a reconfigured alabama congressional seat. and that's important to make sure we have other parts of our government that are going to be staffed with people committed to or democracy. and when i say other parts of our government i mean at the state and local level as well. you know, state legislators,

state supreme court races, governors. ours is a federal system but with a great system of checks and balances. and to make sure these other positions are staffed with people committed to our democracy matter a great deal. but we should take donald trump at his word. do not think that he's just saying these things. do not think that he is just making it up, that this is just some kind of stream of consciousness that's not actually going to occur. this is who this guy is. and for all those people who are afraid to say they oppose him or for people who will act in a way that's inconsistent with our democratic best because out of fear for him, that's not who we are as americans. every generation of americans is called upon ultimately to defend democracy. this is our time. and the question is will this generation be the first generation in the history of america not to defend democracy? i think at the end of the day i

think we will meet the test and we will be just fine. but we should understand, nature of the threat that we face and the choice that we have. he can make all the threats that he wants. if he doesn't have actual power, he can be just looked at as somebody who was kind of strange, had kind of weird hair, wore makeup and said some kind of bizarre 1930s fascist, you know, nazi-type stuff. and we can just forget about him. and you know, historians will write about him. if he gets actual power, if he wins this election, that's a whole different calculus. and that's why everybody has to get to the polls and everybody has to oppose him. and more than that, support kamala harris. >> you get name checked sometimes when trump talks about his democratic enemies. he's promised a military tribunal for liz cheney. he wants to bring mark milley and jim mattis potentially and

others back to active duty so they can be court-martialed. are you ever afraid? >> no, i'm not. i saw the cover of the "new york times" sunday magazine and i was one of a group of people -- i guess the question was would trump lock them up or something like that. you know, and that's what -- if you're opposed to donald trump you have to be prepared for those kinds of articles or for the kinds of things that i understand slip into my x accounts and other accounts, that for all of you who are sending me that stuff i don't read. just so that you understand that. but you know, the reality is that i'm more committed to our democracy than i am afraid of donald trump. i think if we all have that attitude we will end up in a place that is just fine. >> i wrote that down. more committed to democracy than i am afraid of donald trump. may i borrow that? >> absolutely. and i hope everybody else borrows it as well and keeps it

uppermost in their minds. >> i'm going to use it for the next nine days. the other thing i want to get at is your optimism. when i talk to people who are wringing their hands, in ten days there might be something to be upset about should he happen to win. he's not ahead in any of the polls. but right now this is awesome. this is go time. this is game time. i come from campaigns. this is the most exciting part. this is the rush. this is the running through the tape. what do you see when you're out there in alabama? are people excited to vote? >> yeah. i've been in a whole bunch of states and alabama, i'll be in michigan tomorrow, i was in colorado and arizona before in addition to other states. there's a huge amount of enthusiasm out there that i don't think is necessarily being covered in a way that i am perceiving and experiencing. people are enthusiastic about the choices that they have. there's an enthusiasm about kamala harris as they have come to know her. i worked on the obama campaign back in 2008. and he had a really extended period of time for people to get to know him.

she's had to do this over a relatively short period of time. and as people come to know her i think they come to support her. and then as they see things as what happened in madison square garden last night and other things he has said, people are starting to understand the contrast and understand that this is as stark a choice as they've ever had to make when it comes to making a presidential determination. and that's why ultimately i'm optimistic that i think she is going to win and that i think also people who have stood up to donald trump are going to be rewarded. and when i say that i mean people electorally as well as companies, corporations, ceos who stood up to him. they will benefit from that opposition. and the question is going to be for those who have not, why didn't you? why didn't you? why didn't you have the guts to stand up to a person who would demean our democracy, try to destroy our democracy?

what was it that prevented you from doing that which defined our nation? we have to remember something. the people who founded this nation took on the mightiest empire in the world. and if you had looked at the pros and cons, the chances of the american revolution succeeding were not that great. and yet people, men and women pledged their lives to that cause, took great risks and created the greatest nation in the history of this world. we are the ancestors of that great revolution. we have a responsibility to our ancestors. if we do not oppose an anti-democracy person like donald trump, we dishonor the legacy of those great people. >> okay, you've made it so high. i'm going to end on a low note. you also couldn't get a job at any amazon facility if you were a convicted felon or jamie dimon's company. so it's also totally contradictory to the companies those men run. former attorney general eric holder, it is a privilege. you are a light. thank you for joining us today.

>> thanks for having me. >> when we come back, as the attorney general just alluded to, the racist hatred that was broadcast from the podium at a trump rally last night at madison square garden has clear echoes to another dark chapter in america's history some 85 years ago. our friend filmmaker ken burns will be right here at the table to talk about that next. that ne.

history is so important,

particularly its darker recesses and chapters. because every now and then it can grab us by the lapels and shake us out of something. something we don't want to do again. you might feel that right now. because as we mentioned donald trump's rally at madison square garden last night called to mind some of the more frightening chapters of our american story. from the ken burns documentary "the u.s. and the holocaust," see if it feels familiar. >> no group was more adamantly opposed to admitting jewish refugees than the german american bund. 20,000 members would fill madison square garden on washington's birthday. they were led by fritz kuehne, a german immigrant who fancied himself the american fuhrer. >> what we are actively fighting for under our charter, first, a social just, white,

gentile-ruled united states. second -- [ applause ] gentile-controlled labor union free from jewish moscow-directed domination. [ applause ] >> other speakers railed against the president, frank d. rosenfeld, and his jew deal. >> we only call upon our leader to awake to the fact that the jew is alien in body mind and soul as any other non-aryan and he's 1,000 times more dangerous to us than all the others by reason of his parasitic nature. >> joining our coverage emmy award-winning filmmaker and documentarian our dear friend ken burns. the new documentary is about leonardo da vinci. from the horrors to the glorious. let's start with the horrors. i mean, we comment it's plain the only difference is they were

against moscow. >> right. at least there was that. the rhymes are pretty scary right now. mark twain's rhymes of history. they're pretty scary. and i notice today there's a lot of blowback about using the comparisons between last night and this. but the big difference is that we weren't back then in 1939 in any way in danger of choosing a fascist path. there was a great deal of antisemitism, perhaps even more than today, but we weren't on the verge of an election that might in fact lead to someone who has at least exhibited fascist tendencies. and so you know, we could rail about the comparisons and everything is always different. the rhymes are just that, rhymes. no event has ever repeated itself ever. but we can take stock of this. i mean, he speaks about the enemy from within.

and in some ways there's an as aspect of what he's saying unintentional. lincoln said this. there's no foreign enemy that could do it. all the armies of asia europe and africa could not -- if destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher as a nation of free men. we will live through all time or die by suicide. he was a young man then. he would go on to preside over the closest we ever came. and i think remember the -- well, i'm the only person who remembers the walt kelly strip pogo who said we have met the enemy and he is us. there is a sense destruction is going to come from within. what donald trump has misunderstood, it's that the movement he started is the most destructive aspect in this. and that maybe there's an even deeper, more psychological thing, is that one feels very sad at the anger and the hatred

and the making of an other, which is why hitler was successful, is that you had to make an enemy. you had to other somebody. i've been making films about the u.s. for a long time but i'm making stuff about us. and what i've learned is that there's no them. and that's -- you know, it's a very elemental and simplistic kind of way of looking at it. but anytime you see somebody needing to advance themselves by saying there's a them in our midst, criminal immigrants who of course commit crimes at far less average than you and i do -- >> at every level. driving. >> driving. exactly. >> murder. >> we've got really a choice here. it seems i think you were talking about this too, that we've equalized it in a way. we've liked the horse race for too long. i've been very disappointed with the exception of msnbc, cnn and some places and some other outlets of the major groups like the "times," the "post" now has

lost all credibility. "l.a. times," same thing. have made it a horse race and have said you know, well, she said this once and then said -- now feels this. and somehow that's equal to, you know, hundreds of lies a day. >> i need you to say more. >> in what way? >> i mean, just say more about the moment. because i think that i feel so happy that we're finally here. right? >> relieved. >> i think that -- i was a campaign flak and i've been a pundit and it's all bullshit, right? the only people who decides who wins are voters. so i'm so relieved that the power gets handed over from the pundits and the pollsters and the campaign people and voters get to go. and the only way we lose our country is if they don't go. >> that's right. >> so what throughout history makes people understand their age? trump seems obsessed with taking away people's agency. what makes people feel and own

their agency? >> well, i was talking to someone just a few minutes ago who thought that people who like trump love trump and they're devoted to him and people who are voting for kamala harris just like her. i would take that back. i think there is devotion in the maga group. i think there are a lot of republicans who are incredibly torn right now. we see all the cynicism and the expediency of not making a decision, not raising their hand and saying i'm actually not for this going on, you know, the non-endorsements are themselves endorsements of something too horrible to even contemplate. but she's run an unbelievable campaign. we didn't know her in a way at all. and now i remember the delight in 2008 in watching obama sort of take over a year and a half, almost two years, being able to define himself in good times and bad in front of the american people. and this is the sandy koufax of

a presidential campaign. she is throwing strikes. everybody knows what's coming and they still can't hit it. and it's been one of the more impressive things. so i am wholeheartedly a white guy for kamala harris. >> yeah, me too. white lady for kamala -- you're bursting. >> yeah. ken, you know, as i've been watching your brilliance over all of these years, you've been tending to a through line. and a through line is the contradiction. there's a reason why as attorney general holder said that we have to defend democracy every generation. >> that's right. >> because our lesser angels consistently, from the beginning -- >> from the beginning. always there. >> overwhelm. and what's interesting about trump's rally yesterday and 1939, 1939 wasn't just simply about a mimicry of hitler. hitler looked to us. >> right. studied the jim crow laws to fashion his anti-jewish

legislation. he loved the way we had isolated and exterminated native americans. >> exactly. so given what you know, and you can see and trace the through line to him, what -- what gives you hope? let me just say -- that's the question. because i want to say that nicolle has been kind of holding me up in some ways and i now understand the difference. i got the difference. because when my life relies on whether or not the country is going to do right in this moment a deep skepticism kicks in. >> of course it does. >> because of the through line. >> because of the through line. you know it. >> talk to me about -- >> you've had the experience of being unfree in a free land. >> exactly. >> the contradiction of that. >> so trump is an echo of

something old. >> very, very old. >> even though he's distinct. >> there is the answer, eddie, because this is where we do it. history is the answer. right? there is precedent for this. which know there's precedent. i love these speeches of lincoln that go one way old testament really tough, second inaugural if it takes 500 years of the bled drawn by the lash then drawn by the sword. and suddenly he pivots with malice toward -- but think about his address to congress in 1862, what we'd call the state of the union. he says fellow citizens, we cannot escape history. the fiery trials through which we pass will light us down in honor or dishonor to the latest generation. it means this is now, this is our existential it means this is now. put it on the line right now. are you for this democracy? are you for this first-time experiment in all of human history that said we will trust people to govern themselves? that we will be virtuous?

is he virtuous in any way? the pursuit of happiness is life-long learning. that means virtue. being a better person. later on in that speech he said the dogmas in the quiet past are inadequate to the stormy present. we must think anew. we must act anew. we must disenthrall ourselves. you know what that means. then we will save our country. he ends the whole thing as attorney general holder said we are the last best hope of earth. if we are the last best hope of earth, we have a responsibility next tuesday to do the right thing and say, we reject this. we are for things. we are not against things. we are for things. we hold some truths to be self-evident. we are in the job of perfecting this union and that's the thing that will put her over. >> it breaks my heart to do this. i have to sneak in a break.

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your shipping manager left to "find themself." leaving you lost. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. sponsored jobs on indeed are two and a half times faster to first hire. visit indeed.com/hire in the show for the two of you. give us a tease. >> we're doing a film on leonardo. it is out next month on november 18th and 19th. leonardo is appropriate to this. first he's joyous. second of all, he's nonbinary. he does not see differences. he is the most curious man on earth, sir kenneth clark said.

so here a guy who, the mona lisa is a great work of science. he's the greatest scientist of the age. and also the greatest artist of the age. nothing like that appears in the politics of the republican nominee. nothing of the curiosity. nothing of the willingness to tolerate something that we understand in our own lives. that sometimes a thing and the opposite of a thing is what marcello said, could be true. to contradict the undertow. it's always one thing or the other. the whole transgender stuff is just ginning up the worst sorts of fear mongering and more shameful is the demonization of immigrants. that happens to be what he thinks works at the moment. we're a nation of immigrants. if he wants to turn it back to americans, then there are a lot of native-american people who would say thank you so much. we can take care of this land a lot better. >> i thought about that. i thought maybe he got one vote. i'm sure that's not what they

meant. it's such a privilege to have you here. and you hold me up. not the other way around. the new documentary "leonardo da vinci" airs november 18th and 19th on pbs. thank you for spending the hour with us. thank you for being at the table. another break. we'll be right back. another break. we'll be right back. of our constitution and the hope that liberty and justice is for all people. but here's the truth. attacks on our constitutional rights, yours and mine are greater than they've ever been. the right for all to vote. reproductive rights. the rights of immigrant families. the right to equal justice for black, brown and lgbtq+ folks. the time to act to protect our rights is now. that's why i'm hoping you'll join me today in supporting the american civil liberties union. it's easy to make a difference. just call or go online now and become an aclu guardian of liberty. all it takes is just $19 a month.

only $0.63 a day. your monthly support will make you part of the movement to protect the rights of all people, including the fundamental right to vote. states are passing laws that would suppress the right to vote. we are going backwards. but the aclu can't do this important work without the support of people like you. you can help ensure liberty and justice for all and make sure that every vote is counted. so please call the aclu now or go to my aclu.org and join us. when you use your credit card, you'll receive this special we the people t-shirt and much more. to show you're a part of the movement to protect the rights guaranteed to all of us by the us constitution. we protect everyone's rights, the freedom of religion, the freedom of expression, racial justice, lgbtq rights, the rights of the disabled. we are here for everyone. it is more important than ever to take a stand.

so please join us today. because we the people means all the people, including you. so call now or go online to my aclu.org to become a guardian of liberty.

thank you so much for letting us into your homes during these consequential times. we are grateful. "the beat" with ari melber starts right now. >> welcome to "the beat." we have james carville joining us to start this last full week before ele