minister of israel -- surely once his good friend, donald trump, to be president of the united states. two right-wing extremists working together, there. so, i think on this issue, again, even on this issue, harris is going to be far superior to trump, and we have a chance if millions of us get active on this issue to change u.s. policy in gaza. >> senator bernie sanders, who has been crisscrossing the country talking to trade unionists, and kids across campus, put that video out with 15 million views, thank you, sir, appreciate it. >> thank you. >> that is "all in" on the thursday night, "alex wagner tonight" starts now with ali velshi in for alex. good conversation. >> i'm glad you brought up that conversation, because it can get worse, people think they will bottom out, take the stand, make a statement, but whether it is reproductive

rights, climate, or israel, gaza, it can certainly get worse. >> and i was going back and reading the amazing account of 1968 in this book, and part of the horror and shock when the bombing campaign in cambodia comes out is that shock of, "oh, my god, they are bombing another country?" like, they have started another war, which is like -- it is not like that was litigated in the campaign. that was not litigated. >> yes, and there may be things like that that we are not even talking about the could get worse. thank you for your message, have yourself a great night and happy halloween. and happy halloween to everyone joining us tonight. hopefully, you've got some candy by your side. if you dressed up, i hope your costume was a hit. to be honest, i'm not sure anybody can beat this group costume. >> tim walz here, and i am passing the phone to someone who is going to create affordable housing. >> tim walz here, not going to pass the phone to someone who is going to create more affordable family. >> tim walz here, i want to pass to the phone to someone who is going to create more affordable drug prices. >> those were democratic

governors across the country who decided to addresses various versions of the vice presidential candidate, tim walz, for halloween this year. meanwhile, the real tim walz was on the campaign trail celebrating a different holiday. this year, halloween also happens to fall during diwali, the hindu festival of lights. so, the vice presidential candidate, tim walz, was at a diwali service in montgomery hills, pennsylvania earlier today to celebrate. this is what campaigning looks like on the democratic side of the race right now, trying to inject some joy into the race, celebrate american diversity, hunting for new votes in swing state communities, but democrats weren't the only one trying something new today. earlier this afternoon, donald trump held a campaign rally in albuquerque, new mexico, a state that no republican candidate has won in 20 years. there is no indication that republicans have a chance of changing that this year, there

is no reason to think donald trump could win in new mexico, but that may not matter to donald trump, because as far as he is concerned, he already won the state, twice. >> look, i am only here for one reason, they all said, "don't come." i said, "why?" "you can't win new mexico." i said, look, your votes are rigged, we can win new mexico. and let me tell you, i already believe we won it twice, okay, if you want to know the truth. >> to be very clear, donald trump did not win new mexico twice. it wasn't even close. he lost new mexico in both 2016 and 2020. but, that is the trump campaign strategy right now. go to a state you lost twice, a state you are not expected to win this time, and say that you one. there are five days left to go until election day, and as donald trump spends his time campaigning in blue states, his running mate is spending his time talking to right-wing podcasters from the manosphere. today, the podcaster, joe rogan, released his full interview with vice presidential candidate jd events. they talk about everything from

banning transgender athletes in sports, to junk science conspiracies about how antidepressants cause mass shootings. vance also managed to work in a fair amount of covid vaccine skepticism, as well. >> the moment where i really started to get red pilled on the holdbacks thing, was the sickest i have been in the last 15 years, by far, was when i took the vaccine. i have had covid five times, i was in bed for two days, my heart was racing, i was like -- the fact that we are not even allowed to talk about that in the -- you know, i have no serious injury, but even the fact that we are not allowed to talk about the fact that i was as sick as i had ever been for two days, and the worst covid experience i had was like a sinus infection, i am not willing to trade that. >> we are not even allowed to talk about this, says jd vance, while talking about it on one of the most widely listened to podcasts in the country. it should be noted here that the vaccine that jd vance is

questioning in that interview was developed during his running mate's own administration. when donald trump was president. it is clear that donald trump and jd vance would rather spend the final days of this campaign talking to their base and promoting the big lie rather than actually trying to reach new voters. meanwhile, harris is barnstorming through more battleground states. yesterday, it was north carolina, pennsylvania, and wisconsin. today, arizona and nevada, where she just finished a vet -- rally in reno. >> listen, donald trump's not done. did anybody hear what he had to say, just yesterday? and i will tell you. it was outrageous! so, he said, on the issue of freedom of choice, reproductive freedom, he said that he will do what he wants because "he will do it whether the women like it or not." "whether the women like it or not." [ audience reacts ] can you imagine?

we have an opportunity in this election, to turn the page on a decade of donald trump, trying to keep us divided and afraid of each other. we are done with that! we are exhausted by it! we are done with that! we're done with it! and, reno, this is the thing. we know that this is not who we are. that is not who we are. and it is time for a new generation of leadership in america. >> later tonight, vice president harris holds another rally in nevada, this one in las vegas, where she will be joined by jennifer lopez. joining us now, john ralston, ceo of the nevada independent, and maia rupert, democratic political strategist who served in various roles in the elizabeth warren and william castro campaign. thank you for being with us tonight. now, let's just lean into this

again. donald trump's weird thing that he keeps on talking about, how he is going to protect women, now he says "whether they want it, or not." if i were donald trump, i would not talk about doing things to or for women, whether they wanted to, or not. but, regardless of his phrasing and his framing of it, it is just not true. >> right. that's exactly right. and i think that when we have moments like this, when we see donald trump sort of taking some of these positions where it doesn't make sense, he is sort of speaking nonsense, very clearly, what is happening, is he is being told that he has a problem with women, he needs to try to appeal to women, but he doesn't have anything to say. his policies are disastrous for women, he has an incredibly backwards view of gender. project 2025 is absolutely catastrophic for issues that impact women, and so, what he is going to do is make these off-the-wall claims that don't mean anything, and the reason they don't mean anything, is that he doesn't have anything real to say. >> john, let's talk about

nevada. nevada could become truly one of the most important states in this election, particularly if, for some reason, kamala harris struggles in the blue wall states of wisconsin, michigan, and pennsylvania. if she loses any one of those, nevada becomes quite central to the decision-making here. tell me about the early vote? there is a discussion about the fact that statewide gop early votes exceeded democratic votes. but, how is someone like me supposed to think about that? does it mean something, other than the fact that you have a presidential campaign who is not actually campaigning against early voting? >> yeah, well, they have changed, ali, you are exactly right. you remember back in 2020, trump was telling republicans, don't mail in your boats, don't early vote. but, it changed. they suddenly woke up and realized what a terrible strategy that was, so they frontloaded their vote. so, that for the first time in about five presidential cycles, allie, you have the republicans

banking votes instead of the democrats, and there are some democrats who are concerned about that, but nevada voting has changed. you know, ali, the democrats have won the presidential race four cycles in a row. it has been 20 years since the republicans have won. but, things have changed a lot. we are now in a state where mail-in ballots are very important and there are still a lot of mail-in ballots out there, and democrats dominate in mail-in ballots. so, i wouldn't say that nevada is definitely going into the republican column, but the democrats have to hope that a lot more mail-in ballots -- and one more thing i might add, ali, there are a lot more independent voters in nevada, the demographics have changed. the plurality, the democrats think the majority are going for them, they are going to end up being about 28%, 29% of the vote, maybe even 30% of the vote. so, it is far from over in nevada, but the republicans definitely have an advantage right now.

>> maia, chris hayes was just having a conversations with bernie sanders and a number of people who are trying to address this issue, who are trying to disinfect democratic voters, voters who are sort of dissatisfied, might be sitting on their hands, might be part of the uncommitted movement, might be frustrated about the harris-biden position on israel/gaza and a number of them are making the argument -- as bernie sanders says, who said, i don't agree with biden or harris on this issue, but i agree with them more than i agree with trump. things can get worse under trump, and we will not have certain fights to fight, if you decide to sit this one out. what is the best argument for either progressives, or people who are still considering sitting this election out? >> i think there are two very strong arguments. one, i think on the issues that people are concerned about and expressing concern about, i think what people need to remember is that you never know, when you elect a president, you never know what that person is going to be faced with. you have to deal with how you

have seen them confront issues, what their temperament is, and how they listen to people. i think we have already seen, with kamala harris, that she has listened to the progressive movement, the uncommitted voters, the people who are saying, i don't like our policy in gaza. i think that impulse, that instinct to listen, that instinct to say, i can learn something new and change my mind, that is what we have to vote on, right? we never know what the situation the person faces actually will be. but, if we vote for someone whose temperament we trust, that is what we are getting. and there is a stark difference, with the way that kamala harris has approached issues where people disagree with her, and the way donald trump approaches issues where people disagree with him, and i think it is a very, very clear choice. >> john, let me ask you about elon musk, from his posts on x. you would get the impression that he is fully running the

ground game in several states, the get out the vote game in several states, including in nevada. of course, nevada is noted for that historic harry reid get out the vote operation. talk to me about what is actually happening on the ground in nevada? because again, the impression you get if you are following elon musk's posts, is that they have mastered the ground game in nevada, and that is going to change everything. >> well, elon musk may know how to build a great electric vehicle, and he may know, eventually, ali, how to get to mars, but he knows nothing about getting out the vote. and as you mentioned, the harry reid machine is formidable, that is why the democrats have won every presidential race here since 2008. but, the demographics have changed, and elon musk, if he has nothing else, he has a lot of money, and he has hired some good operatives, including a guy who used to work for the trump campaign, a guy by the name of chris carr, who helped the governor win the republican governor win a close race here in 2022. but, you can't direct this stuff overnight, ali. it takes a long time to build a get out the vote

infrastructure to register voters, and then make sure they get them to the polls. the democrats have some inherent advantages, always over the republicans. not just the reid machine, but the humans who are part of that machine, and nonprofits who are out there in the various minority communities, recruiting people to register and get out the vote. so, if it were a fair fight, i would take the reid machine over elon musk, and of course, charlie kirk, who is also a part of this. but, the problem is for the democrats, is the demographics have changed, ali, since barack obama won the state by fairly large margins, and then hillary clinton and joe biden only won by 2.5 points, and now the registration is very close. so, they are concerned, and no matter what elon musk is doing

or not doing, this is probably going to be a close race. >> maia, depending on who you are talking to, reproductive rights might be the biggest thing this issue, immigration might be the biggest thing this issue, but across the board, the economy continues to be the biggest issue, almost always is, in every election. even the wall street journal today has said that the next president will inherit a remarkable economy, a number of nobel prize-winning economists have come out and talked about harris' economy. and frankly, as a guy who studies this on a regular basis, it is a strong economy. is there something about that message that is not fully resonating? because if people are economy voters, your choice is a little bit clearer, unless you are a billionaire, in fact, in which case you should vote for donald trump. >> exactly. no, i think this is -- there doesn't seem to be a bit of a disconnect. people say they are voting for the economy, they want answers on the economy, we have a strong economy right now under the biden-harris administration, and harris has put out plans for how she will continue to help poor and working families pay for things. donald trump has put out plans

that have been blasted by economists, regardless of political affiliation, because they are going to be just catastrophic for working families. and so, again, there does seem to be -- people are saying they want to vote on an issue where there seems like there would be only one clear choice. but, again, i think this is one of those situations where people, you know -- people are being asked about something, they are not necessarily going to go to a website, they are not necessarily going to go and read a plan, what they need is for people to make it plain. and that is what these next few days are about, which is why it is so interesting that donald trump seems to have given up the ghost on talking to new voters, bringing people over, while harris is out there, making her affirmative case. he seems to be taking the tack that he is only going to speak

to the base, and i think we are going to see those differences really play out over these next few days. >> one of the things you are seen very clearly in nevada, john, is what the effect is of the anti-immigrant sentiment that the trump campaign has been talking about. some of it specifically anti- latino and hispanic, some of it is not, some of it is anti- haitian, whatever, whatever it happens to be. is that manifesting? are you hearing or seeing how that is manifesting among particularly immigrant voters, or voters who are descendents of immigrants? >> well, as you know, even though we are not a border state, immigration has been an issue, going back many, many cycles here, because nevada has a very high, undocumented worker population, and a very big hispanic population. it can be as much as 20% of the electorate, and it has been well documented over the last few cycles that they have become more skeptical of the democratic party, and i don't want to suggest that the latino vote is monolithic, the parts of the latino vote has become skeptical.

and in nevada, remember, a lot of these are service workers in the culinary union, they were disproportionately crushed here in the economy by covid, and even though we have recovered, ali, there are still some people who are suffering, a lot of them are latino, and while some of the polling shows that they are drifting away, at least enough to maybe put trump over the top here, there is a sense among the democrats, that hispanics here generally make up their minds later than other voters, and they can still be coached into the democratic camp. that is what happened in 2022, when the first latino ever elected to the u.s. senate, catherine cortez-master was seen lagging with latinos, but exit polls eventually showed her getting to 60%. harris needs to get to 60%, ali. >> thanks to both of you for your analysis tonight. john ralston, mayor rupert. have a good night. we have much more to get to tonight. i am going to talk to the

democratic congresswoman from michigan, melissa slatkin, about her deadlocked race for a crucial senate seat. plus, i will take a look at the keystone state, where the harris campaign will hold its final rally on monday. i will talk to senator bob casey about his race for re- election, there. that is next. s next. an add-on treatment for eosinophilic asthma that is taken once every 8 weeks. fasenra is not for sudden breathing problems or other eosinophilic conditions. allergic reactions may occur. don't stop your asthma treatments without talking with your doctor. tell your doctor if your asthma worsens. headache and sore throat may occur. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. step back out there with fasenra. ask your doctor if it's right for you.

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we have to go out and fight for this thing, and i will tell you what, when the vice president says this, we fight

for the next five days, and when we vote, pennsylvania, was good this thing for america. let's go. >> that is more than just words. "pennsylvania, win this thing for america." democratic vice presidential candidate and minnesota governor tim walz spoke to union members in bucks county, pennsylvania. now, bucks county is the only purple suburb of philadelphia that could very well swing the must win keystone state for either vice president kamala harris or for donald trump next week. polls show that the race in pennsylvania is locked in an almost dead heat with leads for either candidate well within the margins of error. as for the pennsylvania senate race, the incumbent democrat, bob casey, holds a slim lead over his republican opponent, dave mccormick. the last few days of these campaigns are crucial, which is why today, the harris campaign announced the location of its final rally on monday, right in front of the rocky steps of the philadelphia museum. in pennsylvania, the state she seems to be betting on to win this thing.

joining me now is the democratic senator, bob casey, who is running for re-election in the great state of pennsylvania. senator, good to see you. thanks for being with us. boy, you are -- it really is down to the wire in pennsylvania, both for the presidential race and even your race, which didn't look like it was going to be all that tight a few months ago. what is happening? what are we learning? what is changing in pennsylvania, if anything? >> well, ali, great to be with you. the difference in my race that you are seeing playing out right now is the influx of billionaires. i see billionaires funding 80% of the television advertising for my opponent. if so, you have out-of-state billionaires funding, in essence, an out-of-state candidate, because my opponent lied about living in pennsylvania when she was living in connecticut.

but, that influx of money over the last couple of months, and the negative ads that come with it, is a reason this race is close. but, we are going to beat david mccormick, and we are going to beat these billionaires, but the only way we can do that is to continue to have the resources down the stretch to get the vote out and get our message out. so, i would ask anyone who wants to help us these last five days, with five dollars, $10, anything you send, to go to bobcasey.com to help us. >> talk to me about how you think about strategy, as part of a statewide election in pennsylvania? what does that strategy look like? is it shearing up bucks county, which is one of the four collar counties in pennsylvania, which end up with a population larger than pennsylvania and pittsburgh combined? is it winning little votes in counties across the state, that might otherwise go republican, but add up to a higher vote total? is it all of the above? what has to happen? because the whole country is looking at pennsylvania. this is truly going to be where this all goes down. >> yeah, i think it is all of the above. i think you described it pretty well. we have to get our base vote

out across the state. i do, so those kamala harris and tim walz and they are working at it every day to get the vote out. the number of volunteers is at historic levels. we are thankful for that. but, we have to make sure we get our vote out, but then in rural counties -- and we have 48 out of our 67 counties are rural, and all of them are republican counties -- as you can see on the map, there. those red counties, you have to reduce margins. but, i think the way that we do it, is not simply the work that is being done by the volunteers, but candidates like me have to continue to make it clear what the differences are in this race. just on basic rights. voting rights and democracy, women's rights, workers rights, there is no common ground between where i stand and where my opponent stands, the same is true for the presidential race. our side wants to protect voting rights, and we have been working to do that, republicans have blocked us. i am one of the senators that voted for the women's health protection act, to restore roe.

my opponent, were he to be elected, would block that legislation. and the same is true on workers rights. protecting the right to organize act, the so-called pro act, to strengthen unions, my opponent would block that, as well, and that is true, with the presidential level, where kamala harris would sign legislation protecting women's rights, workers rights, and voters rights. >> i continue to be fascinated, as you know, i spent a lot of time in montgomery county, where things continue to become ticketed. voting in pennsylvania could be made easier, it could just be made simpler. if you have except the fact that a citizen of this country has the right to vote, you should in fact eliminate all barriers, but once again, there are complicated things going on in philadelphia and the areas around it. which are going to come up on election night and beyond. how worried are you, about

things that look like legal challenges to voting, as opposed to counting in philadelphia, and in pennsylvania in general? >> well, i am concerned that on their side, the republican side, they continue to try to erect barriers to the right to vote. they are going to continue to weave and spin conspiracy theories, and to try to make it more difficult to vote. i would not want to be the member of a political party where they want to shrink the number of voters. i want a big vote, and i hope we get 7 million voters this time, instead of 6.8 million, or 6.9 million, where it was roughly last time. they will continue to do that, but we are going to count every vote, and we are going to knock down any barrier to anyone wanting to vote, no matter who they are. but, i think that you can already see them laying the groundwork to try to play games. so, if folks are concerned about our democracy and concerned about voting, in addition to coming out to vote and getting others to vote, i hope that they will help us with our voter protection efforts, and other efforts they

are undertaking to protect the right to vote, to count every vote. so, i would ask them to help our party, and to go to bobcasey.com. >> because of the way the election went last time around in 2020, those people in these democratic strongholds in pennsylvania take the role and responsibility to voters very seriously, because they understand that there are a handful of places where this election will ultimately be decided, and they are in one of them. is that motivating? are you hearing that? are you understanding? because i am hearing it from my neighbors in pennsylvania, that they understand that the history of this country and the future of this country might actually depend on them making sure not only that they go out and vote, either before tuesday or on tuesday, but that they make sure somebody else goes with them, and that they have the necessary discussions, and debates, and arguments, to make sure that their participation is full and heard on tuesday. >> yeah, no question, they get it, and they are working at it. i mean, i can't tell you, the number of places i have been, eastern and western communities in pennsylvania, the middle of the state, the northwest area,

and so many other places, where people are working night and day, the number of volunteers within pennsylvania, and people coming from outside of pennsylvania to help, people get it, they know what is at stake, they know our democracy is at stake, and they are putting forth the maximum effort. they are knocking on doors and giving money, or they are contributing money, and they are writing postcards. they are engaging their neighbors. they know that it is all at stake in this election, and i am very proud of the work that the people of pennsylvania are doing to get the vote out, to make sure that their friends and neighbors know how critical this election is. >> yeah, i hope the turnout is strong, because folks there do seem to realize that this is crucial. senator, good to see you. as always, thanks for joining us, senator bob casey of pennsylvania. still ahead, in the batted down state of michigan, kamala harris is running neck and neck with donald trump, polls are nearly as close for some down

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five days out from the election, michigan remains both a must win swing state and a tossup for both presidential candidates. new polling from the washington post shows kamala harris leading donald trump in the wolverine state by just one point among the likely voters, well within the margin of

error, which is 3.7 points, basically that heat. meanwhile, in the down ballot races for u.s. senate in michigan, the same poll shows a tight race between elissa slotkin and republican, mike rogers. but, slotkin holds a three- point lead among likely voters, that is also within the margin of error. still a battle of inches in michigan, both for the presidency and the senate seat. more than 2 million voters have already cast their ballots. joining me now is the democratic congresswoman, elissa slotkin of michigan, who is running for that state's open senate seat. congresswoman, great to see you, thank you for joining us tonight. >> thanks for having me. >> was just talking to bob casey in pennsylvania. obviously, the country is looking at pennsylvania, but the other place we are looking at is michigan. it continues to be a tight race. talk to me about what you are seeing on the ground, at what can make a difference with five days to go? because five days in an election and is actually an eternity. >> yes, i think we are seeing

amazing energy, first and foremost. it is hard to deny, based on our absentee voting rates, early voting rights, particularly in the city of detroit, we are setting records for something that is relatively new for us, but there are a lot of people who just avoid politics altogether, they can't stand it. so, they don't watch the programs, and tune in and all that kind of stuff, they are still making their decisions, so that is why you have to be out pounding the pavement, talking about issues people care about, which is what we are trying to do all day, every day. >> let's talk about that, issues that people care about. michigan in particular, there has been criticism on two fronts. one is the uncommitted arab and muslim vote, and the other is workers. talk to me about how you think about these two things? because the harris campaign in particular says they are doing both, they are reaching out to both groups of people, but there have been criticisms, even from some of your fellow electeds in the state, that say

that the national campaign can do a better job. do you believe that? and are you doing a better job in your campaign? >> well, look, i think the number one issue for the 19 month i have been running, up and down the state of michigan, no matter where you go, is the economy, inflation, and just people feeling like they want to do better. and if you are not talking to those issues, then you are only having half a conversation, and i think in particular, you know, just making sure people understand that the manufacturing boom we have going on in michigan right now, 44 new factories that we have been built from the ground up, are because of largely bipartisan or democratic initiatives. and of good governance, of investing in our supply chains and just making sure people understand that if you want to have more money in your pocket, we need to have good jobs, jobs with dignity, good benefits, union jobs. so, those are the things we try to talk about because the number one issue, by far, more than anything else in the state

of michigan, is the economy, and it is on us, those of us who are running, to make that case, and to go to people even when they don't want to be engaged by political campaigns. >> yeah, i am often confused by this, because this argument about how donald trump and republicans are better for the economy, is just -- it is empirically not true, every economist that you talk to, every nobel economist -- but, they say things, and people believe things. so, what does it actually take, when you knock on a door or have a conversation with someone who tells you they want to vote for your opponent because of the economy? what is the argument? what you actually say to them? >> well, just to be clear, i am sure those nobel economists are great, but there are plenty of people right now who don't have enough money in their pocket, right, who feel like they are making choices between, you know, groceries, and pharmaceuticals, and sending their kids to summer camp, and that is a real thing.

this idea that somehow, people are just wrong about their own family finances, i take issue with, and i can show you the math on lots of people. it doesn't help anyone to pretend that is not going on. but, i think the conversation is sort of, you know, there are things we can do to keep more money in your pocket. number one, again, those good jobs with dignity. number two, attack the costs that are draining your finances. health care, prescription drugs, housing, childcare, those kinds of things that are just eating up your money. and then, number three, keep more money in your pocket with a tax code that actually favors middle-class people, as opposed to the ultra-wealthy. and those are the things that, you know, democrats are championing, that i know i feel very strongly about. it is not a silver bullet, there is no silver bullet to fix this, no matter how many harvard degrees someone has, there is no silver bullet but those are things we can work on together to actually ease some of that economic pain. >> what happens in that last five days, with this group of people i continue to be surprised by, arab and muslim leaders getting behind donald trump. what is the last message that

can be said to members of that community, who continue to feel -- in some cases, they are feeling hurt, in some cases, the harris campaign is having meetings with them, but you have to get their vote, too. what you have to say to them? >> yeah, look, there is no way to understate how the issues in the middle east are roiling the state of michigan, that is no secret. and it is personal because we are integrated, we work together, we go to school together, i mean, we are friends. everybody here is friends. but, it has just created a ton of tension. but, all i can tell you is that we all know that we need a negotiated cease-fire. we are working, and trying, again, on just a 10 day cease- fire right now. it is not perfect, but i certainly think that if the question is, who would you rather have in the oval office listening to that community, it is kamala harris over donald trump, any day of the week. >> congresswoman, good to see you. thank you for joining us this evening. congresswoman elissa slotkin is running for the senate seat in michigan.

coming up, who trump is vowing to let "go wild," and others who stain to gain power and influence in a second trump term. that is next thursday with us. .

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on medicines. >> "i'm going to let him go wild on the food." it sounds like me at a buffet. donald trump is promising that if he is elected, he will let the conspiracy theorist and vaccine skeptic "go wild" on food and medicine. >> the key that i think president trump has promised me, is control of the public health agencies, which are hhs, and its sub agencies. cdc, fda, nih, and a few others. >> well, for what it is worth, last night's trump transition team, last night, the trump transition team co-chair, howard latinx, says that rfk jr. will not actually get an official role within the administration, but in the same breath, not only repeated rfk jr.'s thoroughly debunked claim that vaccines cause autism -- which they don't -- but, he went on to explain how trump could empower rfk jr. to end vaccines as we know them, with or without appointing rfk jr. to any sort of official role.

>> all of these vaccines came out without product liability, so what happens -- autism is 1 in 34, so here's what he said point vaccines don't cause autism, which is what rfk pushes, which is why people are concerned he could get a job at hhs. >> he said, give me the data, all i need is the data, and i will take on the data and show it is not safe. and if you pull product liability, the companies will yank these vaccines right off of the markets. >> "yank the vaccines right off of the market." howard used to be a very well respected voice on wall street, by the way. i don't know about you, but after all these years of covid, i would really rather not see vaccines, preventable diseases like measles, and polio making a comeback because vaccines are pulled off the market. but, that is the reality we could be living in, if donald trump is elected, because electing trump means giving power to all sorts of people that trump surrounds himself with. >> i think, you know, the most effective thing to tell people is they are not just voting for

trump, and they are not just voting for kamala, they are voting for an apparatus, and for trump, you are voting for me, you are voting for elon musk, you are voting for tulsi point like you are voting for me, you are voting for elon musk, and you are voting for tulsi. that is supposed to get people to vote for trump. today, with five days left until the election, trump started his day on the phone with the authoritarian leader of hungry, viktor orban, who wished trump "the best of luck," and said he had his "fingers crossed." that is how donald trump started his day. he is ending it with a live interview with the far right political commentator, tucker carlson. these are the people donald trump is choosing to surround himself with. these are the people that he could let "go wild," if he wins. >> what would your role for elon musk be? >> so, elon has a lot of roles he could take, because he is a very exceptional guy.

>> is steve bannon going to work on the campaign of it he is out of prison? >> i don't know, but i think he was treated very unfairly. >> can you say yes or no, whether you have talked to vladimir putin since you stopped being president. >> welcome i don't comment on that, but i will tell you that, if i did, it is a smart thing. >> oh, wow. coming up, turning to the swing state of north carolina, the north carolina attorney general and gubernatorial candidate josh stein joins me, next. next. prevagen. in a clinical study, prevagen was shown to improve memory in subgroups of individuals who were cognitively normal or mildly impaired. stay sharp and improve your memory with prevagen. prevagen. in stores everywhere without a prescription.

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close race and democrats are seeing mixed signals. one bright spot is new pulling from cnn that shows harris winning all-important suburban voters in the swing state, by 11 points. but, at the same time, democrats are worried about black voter turnout. according to early voter data, 18% of votes cast so far in north carolina have come from black voters, and political reports and some democratic operatives say they must bump that up to about 20% for harris to be competitive statewide. joining me now to discuss north carolina, attorney general and gubernatorial candidate, josh epstein. thanks for being with us. i have been asking everybody about this, the votes between last election and this election, in my opinion, has much more to do with the fact that you don't have donald trump telling people not to early vote and not to mail-in vote. why does it matter to you, you know, that some of these votes are coming from some places, and not others? you still have until tuesday to win this election.

>> there is no question. your analysis is right, ali. a lot of it is just people who voted on election day last time, voting in person. there are a lot of people who voted by mail last time, who are voting in person early. we've got about 4 million people who have a ready cast their ballots in north carolina. it is a lot of folks. the electorate, when you add it all up, it will be about five and half million, so there's probably 1,000,000 1/2 people over the next two days of early voting and election day who will cast their ballot. we never know what the ultimate composition of the electorate is going to be. the reason you want your people to vote early, is so that when you are out there knocking on doors, encouraging your people to go vote, you want to have a smaller pool to try to encourage to go. >> let's talk about that. let's talk about the get out the vote situation. this is such a close election across this country and in states like yours -- which could become all-important on election night -- tell me about how that is looking? in many cases, this is going to be about who can convince their voters to actually get out there and vote.

>> no question. in north carolina, elections are always close. they almost always go down to the wire. three of the last four elections for president, north carolina was the closest state, either that a democrat won in '08, and lost in '12 and '20. so, getting people out to vote is a critical part of what we are about. the coordinating campaign has more than 200 field workers, 30 field offices. i have confidence that what we have been doing on the ground, is more impactful than what the republicans are doing. we have to prove it, come election day. and that is what you're going to focus on over the next four, five days. >> talk to me about western north carolina and the issues around asheville and voting there. there are a number of counties that were affected, obviously, by the hurricane and continue to be affected. how is that working out, right now? >> well, it is very encouraging, the turnout in western north carolina is very similar to what it was four years ago. so, yes, people's lives have been turned completely upside

down, too many lives have been lost, too many houses and businesses damaged or destroyed. but, people care deeply about their state, and their country, and they are getting out there to vote, and i am very happy about that. >> talk to me about the effect of your race for governor? which is unusual. every year, there are a couple of governors races that are just wild and unusual. josh shapiro had one against doug mastrio no in pennsylvania last time around, now you have one against a somewhat unusual candidate, whom you are running against, the deputy governor, the lieutenant governor. talk to me about how that plays into the presidential race, or vice versa? >> yeah, well, the election is going to be close. it is tightening up. people tend to go back to their

respective corners in the main. and so, we are still working our tails off to win this election. we are still communicating, we are still knocking on doors. if folks want to help, not only help me, but other races that are close in north carolina, they can go to joshstein.org, joshstein.org. we hope, what we hope, is that we are part of an effort that lifts all votes, we have an incredibly important counsel and state races. we have a supreme court race, allison riggs. we have a number of legislative districts that are just wire to wire, neck to neck. we have to break the super majority in north carolina. we are only one vote shy in each chamber. if we can do all the work we know we need to do over the next five days, we can make this a great year for north carolina, and a great year for our country. >> what are you hearing about what the closing message needs to be in the next five days for people who aren't fully there yet? or, maybe are there but are not committed to voting? what is the thing they need to

hear to put them over the top? >> i think it is that we understand that people are struggling economically, costs are higher than what they are used to, so we have a message that is focused on lowering costs, housing costs, medical costs, healthcare costs, and then we want to put more money in their pockets with targeted tax cuts. they go to middle and working- class families. >> josh stein, good to see you, as always, thank you for taking the time to join us. attorney general josh stein is running for governor of north carolina. good luck in your race next week. that is our show for tonight. catch me back here weekends at 10:00 a.m. eastern. it is time now for the last word with my good friend, lawrence o'donnell. lawrence, just when you think you can get surprised in a campaign, you get surprised because donald trump will be the man who protects women in this country, whether they like it or not. whether they like it or not, they don't have a say in that manner, he will be the one who protects them. >> it doesn't seem to be working, and, ali, doug emhoff is going to be our first guest tonight, the second gentleman, who is husband of the vice president of the united states.

he has