rights. you know, we're going to pick you whether you like it or not, that sort of thing. i think there may be a lot of women who, you know, could talk trump in public and who could vote harris in private. i certainly hope so. >> yeah, there certainly is a belief that if there is a hidden voter block this time around, which in '16 and '20 went for trump, this time, it might be women. >> might be women, and it might be harris. no law says a hidden vote goes to trump. could be harris. >> we'll talk on "morning joe." thanks for getting up "way too early" with us on this friday morning. have a good weekend, everyone. "morning joe" starts right now. his latest comment is just the most recent in a series of examples that we have here from him in his words and deeds,

about how he devalues the ability of women to have the choice and the freedom to make decisions about their own body. >> by the way, i looked at her this morning. she had a little news conference that lasted for, like, two minutes. she's exhausted. you know, she's exhausted. she's a train wreck who is totally unqualified to be the president of the united states of america. there are some people who thrive under pressure, and there are some people who crack under pressure. she's a cracker. and the more pressure, kamala, the more pressure kamala has, you see it. she's cracking. >> that's just confirming here -- >> he was asleep. i mean, what was it? >> she was a cracker? i'm -- i'm confused.

there's so many things wrong with that, and we'll just leave it there on this friday morning. >> yeah. you know, mika, there's so much worse out there. >> i know. >> you wake up this morning and look at the front of the -- the top of "drudge," which really says the unfortunate demise of twitter, of x, whatever you call it. >> yeah, it's -- >> you know, i've been on it every day since, what, 2009/2010? i can't believe it's just gotten so bad. it's straight on disinformation. >> right. ugly images pop up. >> it's turned into a terrible site. you can't even really get your news. i deleted it from my phone,

which is really unfortunate. >> yeah. >> because it's -- again, it's just been for a decade -- >> used to be your news feed, yeah. >> it was a go-to for a great news feed. on the top -- and, guys, if we could screenshot "drudge" and put it up, that'd be great. this is where we end. donald trump began his campaign saying, "i am your vengeance," shows at the end exactly what "i am your vengeance" means. the "drudge report," "trump calls for cheney execution." >> yeah. >> he says that she should have nine guns trained at her face. let's put her with a rifle standing there with nine barrels shooting at her.

firing squad, obviously. that's where we end. you know, mika, it's -- well, actually, it's more direct than if she had guns pointed at her. he actually says, "let's put her with a rifle standing there with nine barrels shooting at her." nine barrels shooting at her. this is his final pitch going into the final weekend of one of the most important campaigns, and a campaign that starts with "i am your retribution" ends with "liz cheney needs to be in a firing squad with nine barrels shooting at her." let's take a look at the bite right now. >> she's a radical warhawk. let's put her with a rifle standing there with nine barrels shooting at her, okay? let's see how she feels about it. you know, when the guns are

trained on her face. you know, they're all warhawks when they're sitting in washington in a nice building saying, "oh gee, let's send 10,000 troops right into the mouth of the enemy." but she's a stupid person. >> nine barrels shooting at her face. this is, again -- i want "the wall street journal" editorial page to look at this. we've been spending a lot of time, rightly, about "the washington post" bending to the will of donald trump, and "the los angeles times" bending to the will of donald trump. actually banning -- keep that up -- actually banning -- keep that up, please. >> we will. >> actually banning editorials where their editorial team calls for harris' selection.

but let's go back to "the wall street journal," who i have noted and i read to you every day, whether you want to hear it or not, i have. because for most of the time, they have actually called out donald trump. but as we go to the final weeks of the campaign, donald trump goes on "bloomberg." he says "the wall street journal" always gets it wrong. says he is going to talk to murdoch. then what happens? they start making fun of people who are concerned about donald trump and his calls for violence. they laugh and jokingly say, this is, again, after donald trump has attacked them and says he is having a meeting with rupert murdoch. they write an editorial on monday talking about a fascist meme, as if saying, i'm going to use my military troops and i'm

going to use my national guard to attack my democratic political opponents. as if that is a meme. and then a few days later, as if they haven't already humiliated themselves enough, donald trump keeps talking about violence against his political opponent. and they write another op-ed saying to all the billionaires reading and all of the guys driving around maseratis who have doubled their fortunes while going to country clubs, calling kamala harris a socialist, they double down and say, "there is nothing to see here. why, the democrats have been far worse." then we see this. i wonder, can we put this up again, please? i wonder, "wall street journal" editorial page, does this look like a meme to you?

or does this look like something that you and "the new york times" editorial page and "the washington post" editorial page, in better days, and every other editorial page and every politician on the republican side, the democrat side, and independents would all come out speaking against this? >> right. >> but you have preemptively capitulated to a man who you believe is going to win next tuesday, when many on his own side are panicking. they're panicking and saying, "if we don't get more young men out, we are going to lose this race to kamala harris." but, willie, let's just, again, look at this from 30,000 feet. this is how donald trump ends

his campaign, calling for nine rifles aimed at liz cheney's face, to shoot at her face. this is how donald trump is ending his campaign for president. >> yeah, it's a staggering moment here as we make the turn into the critical final weekend. we can already anticipate, it's probably already happening, what the response will be. oh, he didn't mean that literally, joe. come on. you guys always blow these things out of proportion. how many times does he have to say things like this, though? you can't take these in a vacuum. you can look back to him saying that general mark milley deserved death for talking to china, to reassure china in the moments after january 6th, 2021. this kind of language he's used again and again, this kind of violent rhetoric about imprisoning opponents, shutting down television networks, about

people who cross him in any way deserving the worst kind of punishment. what do we know about that? maybe a flip comment to him. maybe something he was throwing off the cuff. maybe he meant she should go to war herself, stand there and feel what it is like to be there in battle, but we know his supporters take these signals literally. some of them, some take these signals literally. see january 6th. he stirs the pot, walks away, and lets hell break loose, as we saw on january 6th. >> you know, gene robinson, as we look at this headline and we see the clip, and i'll be glad to play the clip again if anybody at "the wall street journal" editorial page wants to call it a meme as we close the campaign. but, gene robinson, you have been reporting for decades, like

most great journalists, you spent your time in the london bureau as "the washington post" london bureau chief. as our friend steve rattner, but, of course, others who have been through there. that, throughout your career, has provided you a unique view at how the world looks at the united states. i'll ask katty in a second, but i want to ask you, your reaction to donald trump calling for liz cheney being shot in the face by nine rifles in the closing weekend of the campaign. not only what it says about where the republican party is in 2024, but also what it must look like to our allies in london, in paris, in madrid, in warsaw,

across the world. >> well, it looks completely insane to our allies across the world. and it is. this is unprecedented. this is -- i'm so glad that we're focusing on this and spending some time on it because this is not normal. this is not acceptable. this is so dangerous. and i just want to -- you know, i don't usually do a personal appeal, but i hope my friend, the editor of the "wall street journal" editorial pages, and is a friend of mine, paul, are you watching this? are you paying attention to this? you know, is this okay with you? i know it's not. >> right. >> don't you have a responsibility to say that to your readers? this is absolutely beyond the pale. it's a direct threat. not nine barrels pointed at her,

nine barrels shooting at her. this is astonishing. >> gene, i second that, that plea. for people like paul and others to have the strength that they need to step up. for people at "the washington post" to step up. liz cheney just posted a response. "this is how dictators destroy free nations. they threaten those who speak against them with death. we cannot entrust our country and our freedom to a petty, vindictive, cruel, unstable man who wants to be a tyrant." hashtag, women will not be silenced. hashtag, vote kamala. so many people will cast this off as, you guys, he doesn't mean it. who in your life, i ask to the people who say, you guys, who in

your life would you allow to speak that way? let alone someone you would vote for president, just to speak that way? >> what politician would be allowed -- >> and, joe, i love your term about these billionaires and these newspapers and "the wall street journal." preemptively capitulating trading on america. >> and with "the wall street journal," they actually capitulated after donald trump attacked them. >> yeah. >> "bloomberg." >> they caved. >> then trump goes, oh, i'm going to talk to their boss. i'm going to talk to murdoch. and then, gene, we get that -- now, listen, i talk about "new york times" articles all the time. because i read "the new york times" every day. i talk about "the wall street journal" editorial page because i read it every day. because it matters. and what you said about paul.

paul gigot, i was reading "the wall street journal" editorial page since when i was a 29-year-old. everyone was getting faxes from the nrcc. not me. i'd take "the wall street journal" editorial page, and i would carry it around the district. i would read it. i would go out. i would give speeches. you know, you look at a lot of it. i disagree with them on a lot of issues, on taxes, carried interest taxes for billionaires, tax cuts and all of that stuff. but i will say, paul gigot's page has not disappointed me so many times, where they've spoken out against the big lie. >> yeah. >> they've spoken out against donald trump's calls for

violence. but that's filler right now in the final stretch of this campaign. >> absolutely right. >> i do want to say, i do want to say to everybody that is out there, that is foaming at the mouth and thinking, we have to capitulate to donald trump, we have to, i want you to know, wednesday morning will come. wednesday morning will come. this election will be over. whether it's next wednesday or the following wednesday, that day will come. but your words will remain. the actions at "the washington post," readership will remain. what's happening at "the l.a. times" will remain a stain. gene, i want to go back because i've got great respect for him

and i always have. i look at what "the wall street journal" editorial page has done, talking about a, quote, fascist meme. i see what dan writes, oh, are democrats going to kill trump? democrats are worse than republicans. they know it's a lie. put the "drudge report" back up because people won't believe it. for all the doubting thomases out there going, "oh joe." >> different times. >> listen, it's a really bad time. these are much smaller times, but it is a really bad idea for you to -- fill in the blank. they'd go, "oh joe, oh joe," so condescending. three months later, oh, we should have listened to you. here, it's trump people, "oh

joe, you and your fascist meme." gene, your friends would call. >> yeah. i've had respect for paul for such a long time. >> mm-hmm. >> to minimize this, seems to me, doing a grave disservice to those readers and to all of america. >> yeah, absolutely. first of all, quickly on the fascist meme, it's not lefty press that called donald trump a fascist. it was general milley and general kelly, right? two of the most decorated and bravest warriors who worked very closely with him, and that's the conclusion they've reached from having worked with him in the first trump administration. that's not a meme. those are facts. that's what these distinguished military men have to say.

you're absolutely right, "the wall street journal" has called out trump's nonsense about the big lie, about some of his economic policies. they've been brave until the end. >> yeah. >> now, the rubber is hitting the road. >> you know -- >> all of a sudden, it's all okay. >> you know, there's still time for these papers to step up and do the right thing. >> there is time. >> perhaps at the peril of their own jobs. i wouldn't put -- i mean, if we're looking at a descent into fascism, which right now, the things donald trump is saying and doing parallel exactly fascism, not hyperbole, so there is time to step up. part of it, part of it is destroying things, destroying the very things that perhaps are beacons of truth. so be careful, "washington post." be careful -- >> remember who -- >> -- "l.a. times."

be careful "wall street journal." >> -- liz cheney -- yeah. >> "washington post" is losing readers, and that may be the very much exactly what is going on here ultimately. you have to think ahead and step up. joe, i'll toss back to you. we're having zaniminton-beadows on. doing what the american papers should be doing, printing a condemnation of donald trump at this moment in history. >> a conservative, conservative magazine, "the economist" doing that. >> mika, i want to follow up on what gene said. the fascist rhetoric, the charges of fascism that are

being dismissed as a meme, being dismissed as a meme despite the fact it is general milley, former chairman of the joint chiefs, who donald trump also threatened with execution because he disagreed with donald trump on january 6th. and he's one of the most highly decorated soldiers of this century. they dismiss general mark milley as a meme. "the washington post" decides when you have two of the most highly decorated soldiers of the 21st century in mark milley and also in general john kelly, that should be dismissed. so that's one side of the equation. the other side of the equation here is, donald trump is talking

about republicans here. he's talking about somebody who had a 95 acu rating. somebody who has been the conservative's conservative for years. so more conservative in every way than donald trump. yet, just because she is disloyal to him, just because she said there's something deeply wrong with a commander in chief allowing riots to go on, refusing to stop those riots, and, in fact, going into his dining room alone, staring and looking at some of the most violent parts of the riot, rewinding them, watching them again, rewinding them, watching them again. while his vice president and secret service detail are locked up in the basement, and his

secret service detail, mike pence's, calling their families and saying they don't think they're going to make it out alive. while cops are getting their heads crushed inside doors, getting beaten up, getting clubbed almost to death, within inches of their death, having bear spray sprayed on them. this, this is what is so dismissed day in and day out and day in and day out. that is what liz cheney objected to. the editorial pages objected to at one time. and now because liz cheney objected to those riots and the way things were handled, she's an enemy of the state to donald trump. on the closing weekend, he's calling for nine guns to be pointed at her face to execute

her. >> it's as bad as it gets, as frightening as it gets, and it is to be taken seriously. there are lots of different narratives to look at in the final days of this campaign. this one is hard to turn away from. who speaks this way? who in your life, ask yourself, speaks this way? as joe points out, we're seeing big corporations and billionaires preemptively capitulating to donald trump. if you can imagine what would happen if he won a second term. so many, jonathan lemire, would fall. there's another preparation going on here, and that's preparation for a big lie in case he doesn't win. >> yeah, first of all, you're right. we're already seeing billionaires and corporations, at minimum, hedge their bets right now. but there's a lot happening here. there is a growing theory of the case that part of why the trump campaign has been so over the top confident about their victory next week is they want,

and we're seeing it from elon musk every day, from trump himself, other top allies, that they're trying to prime their supporters to expect to win. suggesting the only way they could lose would be if it was stolen, if things were rigged, if the election wasn't fair. it's going to preview not just court cases, were trump to lose next week, but potentially many chances of violence. >> but, jonathan. >> yes, joe? >> you have people like charlie kirk freaking out now, telling the truth. saying the numbers are looking terrible in pennsylvania. that right now, trump is on his way to losing. i think it's a "politico" story that was showing what kirk and others were saying. because the early voting, according to them and many others, not going their way. women are going out and are voting. two things are happening at once. the harris campaign is getting more confident by the day that

things are breaking their way in the blue wall states, and the trump campaign has two things happening. one, donald trump is starting dark you know things are going well in pennsylvania for harris because he is starting to claim, oh, my gosh, they're stealing the vote from me. that's one hand. on the other hand, charlie kirk and other people attached to the trump campaign, are supporters of the trump campaign, are literally freaking out, saying publicly, we're going to lose if the voting patterns continue this way. >> yeah, you're seeing a false confidence being put forward by the trump campaign. in part, because they want to appease the candidate who doesn't like to hear bad news. behind the scenes, there is growing worry. i've talked to people connected to the campaign in the last day or two. the trump folks were feeling much better a couple weeks ago than they are today. some of the undecided, late-breaking voters may be going to harris. early voting data, joe, can be

deceptive, not always clear what it means, but certainly, there are signs, at minimum, that it is going well for the harris campaign. particularly in those blue wall states. they feel -- they're feeling increasingly confident about their chance there. they acknowledge, it's going to be really tight. they do live in fear, as democrats have since 2016, that there will be a late, breaking, day of vote for trump. at least at this point, they haven't seen that happen in the early voting. willie, we're seeing -- you know, and trump -- and the other part of this is, joe mentioned his truth social post the other day, claiming fraud in pennsylvania. no evidence of that. i think we're seeing trump's outbursts and violent rhetoric increase more and more. what does that usually show us? behind the scenes, that means he is getting worried. the truth social is a window into his soul, what he really thinks. and there is a growing anxiety at mar-a-lago that this might be slipping away from him. were he to lose, suddenly, the

criminal cases come back. that's adding to the pressure, i'm told. >> we saw even yesterday in the state of georgia, john, the amplification by some people who support donald trump, some people around donald trump, a completely fabricated story about haitian migrants voting multiple times in georgia. the republican secretary of state, the republican election officials quickly dismissed it, said this is from a russian troll farm, it's a lie, don't believe it. we can expect much more of those lies amplified by trump and the people around him in the next few days. sam stein, we talk a lot about not grading donald trump on a curve. it's not something we do. a lot of people still do that, unfortunately. not giving him a pass. but let's pretend this is a normal presidential campaign and this is the final weekend before election day. just go down the list. just yesterday, the things this candidate, the man who wants to return to the white house, did. he called effectively for the execution of liz cheney, as the headline in "drudge" says. he wants guns pointed at her.

>> shooting at her. >> sues cbs for $10 billion for routine editing of an interview with kamala harris. >> wild. >> in the state of new mexico yesterday, which he said he won twice. he lost twice, including last time by double digits, spending part of his time there. he says that rfk jr. would have a prominent role as a health official in his administration. think about the implications of that. some people saying rfk jr. would make measles great again due to his views on vaccines. most importantly, perhaps, as we've been saying, seeding the ground for his lie again that the election was stolen from him if he loses. >> you actually undersold it, seriously. he didn't say pointing at liz cheney, he said shooting at liz cheney. he didn't say rfk jr. would be looking over health, he said women's health. >> yeah. >> we have elon musk coming out there saying repeatedly, folks should expect economic suffering in the short term, should trump win. we have mike johnson opening up the idea of going back at the

affordable care act. i mean, this is a remarkable close to a campaign. i was struck by the fact that, you know, obviously, it's insane that trump said what he said about liz cheney. they'll say, well, he was talk about she should know the consequences of war before, you know, voting for it, whatever. the idea you would sort of imagine her being shot at is, i think, problem here. but i was also struck by the fact he was being interviewed on stage by tucker carlson. a normal campaign would not be doing that. they would be trying to expand the coalition. they wouldn't be saying to women, you know what? i'll protect you whether you want it or not. this is a campaign that has been rigid, overconfident, hyperfocused on one sliver of the electorate. the fear of the case is they could turn out young men voters and that they're just going to go, time and time again, and act in a way that would, you know, appease them but also alienate

everyone else. this is the big test right now. when joe mentions charlie kirk freaking out, the reason charlie kirk is freaking out is because early indications are -- and this is early indications, whatever. >> don't know anything, yeah. >> but indication is the big gamble they made may not work out. if you want a reason why, go down the litany of issues willie and i just listed. they could not reorient the campaign to something a little less offensive at the end. >> willie. >> yeah, and, katty, obviously, what we're seeing here very clearly is donald trump just drilling down deeper on his base of support. that is to say, not expanding and really appealing to women in any meaningful way. perhaps those nikki haley women voters that we talk about a lot. nikki haley republicans. he's just drilling down deeper and deeper. again, it has to be said, he's preparing his voters for the idea that the election was stolen from him. because that's not the stance and the position of a winner, a guy who thinks he is going to

take the election. it's someone saying, uh-oh, i might lose. i better get my people ready for some alternate version of the story. >> yeah, the message that he'd only lose if the election was rigged has been bubbling through the last few months. i mean, ever since he lost in 2020, ever since he started running in 2016. i remember going to rallies and this was a theme then. certainly in the last few days, it's got much more specific and much more pointed, whether he is pointing at lancaster county in pennsylvania and saying there is risk there, whether he is talking at georgia. the campaign has this problem. on the one hand, they want their people to vote early, yet you still have elon musk saying that early voting is open to fraud. they haven't really got the message very straight. it is true that in the last few days, the darkness and the threat coming from donald trump have been exacerbated. you have to think back to when donald trump came into office in 2016 and there were guardrails around him. there were people around him.

there was the republican party that was still there, pushing back against him. none of that really exists this time. if he does win this time, you have to think, this would be a donald trump talking as he does now without the guardrails that held him in check in 2016. and the system that held him in place, but only just, in 2020. that's why you have a lot more alarm when you talk to european allies. a lot more alarm even in the last week or two coming from diplomatic leaders here in washington, coming from leaders amongst europe and amongst america's allies. they see this would be donald trump unfettered. liz cheney said, if you don't want to hire him to be your babysitter, you shouldn't hire him to be your president. but for "the wall street journal" and those business leaders saying he wouldn't be like this, would you hire him to be your ceo? character doesn't suggest they would. >> let's put up "drudge" one more time before we go to break. i wonder what those wall street

leaders are thinking now, with trump saying -- and, again, as sam said, nine guns, rifles, firing at her face. shooting at her. this is how he is closing the campaign. if you want to understand as we go to break, mika -- not you, but people going, well, what's going on? why are we seeing this panicking? does this mean harris is winning? no, it doesn't mean harris is winning. it means that the trump campaign now understands what we've been saying for weeks now. as they've been brashly predicting a landslide, this race is tied. this race is tied going into the weekend. things are looking good for the harris campaign, for early voting in pennsylvania, but republican registration over the last year has increased a good deal in pennsylvania.

>> yeah. >> so we don't know how that's going to offset. anybody who is serious, who is looking at all these numbers, can only say one thing. i have no idea how it's going to turn out. this race is tied. mika, it's almost like donald trump just figured out that what everybody around him has been telling him is just to appease him. just to say, yeah boss, yeah boss, things are going great, boss. the fact is, when you have charlie kirk tweeting out and others tweeting out, "hey, we're going to lose this race if it keeps going in this direction," then that's the understanding. this race is still up for grabs. how america responds over the next three to four days will make all the difference in the world. >> to katty's point about nato allies terrified at a trump win, more muted headline on the cover of "the new york times," but no less important, "trump clings to

his image as strongman, labeled a fascist and in no rush to deny it." it goes into all the different times he's called a fascist. he's like, eh. yeah, he speaks, talks, looks. you have to take the next step. still ahead on "morning joe," a look at how vice president kamala harris is seizing on donald trump's pledge to protect women and whether they like it or not. plus, nba superstar lebron james is voicing his support for vice president harris. we'll show you his powerful, new endorsement video. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be back in 90 seconds. liberty mutual customized my car insurance so i saved hundreds. with the money i saved i thought i'd get a wax figure of myself. cool right? look at this craftmanship. i mean they even got my nostrils right.

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they are warm people. >> former president trump with the comments yesterday campaigning in solidly blue new mexico, a state he's lost twice, including in 2020 by double digits. joe, a lot of people wondering what he was doing there, why he was there. he says he was appealing to latino voters. >> hispanics. >> then one of his weaves that never really came together. he didn't bring that one in for a landing, joe, when he was making it up as he goes. he didn't know whether to call that group of americans latino americans or hispanic americans. he made up the explanation about an east coast and west coast thing. but if that is your appeal to latino voters, doesn't know what to call ya and you're a little too warm sometimes, that's some closing argument. >> well, i mean, especially following up on the outrage that he caused in the puerto rican community, which has spread to the latino or hispanic

community, as donald trump said. you know, he sounded kind of like he was a first-time comedian on "carson" back in the '70s. you know, in new york, they call them bums. on the west coast, they're called hobos. ha, ha, ha. in new york -- i mean, seriously. what's going on there? and the whole, sometimes you're too warm. i like you from a distance, but sometimes you're too warm. stay 5 feet away. >> that comedian, joe, by the way, is not invited over the couch to talk to johnny after stand-up. he waves at him, and we go to commercial break. >> doc, take us to commercial. >> yeah, exactly. but that's his closing argument. i think, as you say, trying to paper over somehow or make up for what happened at madison square garden, the insults to puerto rican americans and the larger latino community.

i'm not sure it was entirely effective in doing that. meanwhile, superstar of the nba, lebron james, endorsed kamala harris for president. the future hall of famer campaigned for barack obama and hillary clinton in previous election cycles. james posted this video to social media. >> all right. heck yeah, cool black guy. one of my buddies. we carved watermelons together. it was awesome. >> no, no, i'm not a racist. >> they're taking black jobs now. the whole country will be like detroit. a lot is about the genes, isn't it, don't you believe? they're poisoning the blood of our country. >> troublemaker, these are troublemakers. i love the old days. you know what they used to do to guys like that in a place like that? they'd been carried out on a stretcher, folks.

like to punch him in the face, i'll tell ya. now, if you had one really violent day, like one rough hour, and i mean real rough, the word will get out. it will end immediately. but we're going to indemnify police officers and law enforcement from being destroyed by the radical left. you're changing history. you're changing culture. of course i hate these people. let's all hate these people because maybe hate is what we need. >> the video posted by lebron james yesterday to his social media. obviously, he is drawing a line from what we're seeing today all the way back through the last century or so in this country. reminding people that rhetoric is only rheoric until it's not, until it turns into violence. >> absolutely right. first of all, whoever put together that video, that's really powerful. i love the first line of what lebron wrote, like, what are we

even talking about? why are we here? this is not who we were a few years ago. yet, it's where donald trump wants us to be once again, and it's not acceptable. it's not acceptable. but it was a very powerful endorsement. >> sam, we talked about donald trump saying liz cheney should be shot in the face by nine rifles this morning. he's also talked about the execution of mark milley, chairman of the joint chiefs. he's talked about being a dictator from day one. he's talked about terminating the constitution. he's talked about so many things. and lebron james' ad there, his

posting is remarkable in that, so many of the things donald trump has said, we're numb to, we've forgotten. it's been blurred out of our collective memory because the brain can only hold on to so much, and he produces so much vile rhetoric every single week. the question is, what are we doing here? well, one reason we're here is because of the numbness, the firehose of falsehoods has actually worked. >> yeah, i couldn't agree more. the overton window of what is acceptable politics has shifted dramatically, simply because he's been on our political scene for eight years now. things that would have been disqualifying for anyone else, and we've gone through them a million times, are not disqualifying for him. the thing that continues to trip me up a lot, and i get it somewhat but it still trips me

up, is when people say, well, aren't you better off than you were four years ago? i think back to where i was on election eve four years ago. i was stuck in my home, right, like everyone else. i watched the results and worked from my home because people were dying all around me because of a vicious, horrible pandemic that was mismanaged by the trump administration. that is not really coming up during this election. the only person bringing it up on the trail is barack obama, who is reminding people, yeah, we had 60% or more mortality in the united states than in canada. but we don't talk about that because we've moved on to so many other things. we don't want to relive covid. we don't want to look back. i get why the harris campaign doesn't want to focus on it. no one wants to go back to the days of masks and things. it was a huge element of his why biography. it's swept away with all the other scandals and statements. >> mismanagement is one thing.

there's also actually inflicting pain, whether it be verbal abuse or actual, physical trauma on people. coming up in our 8:00 hour, we're going to have more coverage of the women who are suffering because of what trump was able to accomplish in his first presidency. we're going to be talking to a woman from atlanta who, last month, was hemorrhaging so violently, she was pregnant with a baby she wanted so badly, and she was also hemorrhaging amniotic fluid. yet, doctors were grappling with whether or not they could administer her care. right in front of her, holding it back. we'll have that story in our 8:00 hour of "morning joe." also coming up, iran appears to be weighing a response to israel's attack against tehran's military infrastructure. we'll dig into that as tensions continue to rise across the middle east. plus, "the economist" has officially endorsed kamala

harris for president. warning, quote, a second trump term comes with unacceptable risks. the paper's editor in chief will join us to discuss that. "morning joe" will be right back. ♪ i have type 2 diabetes, but i manage it well ♪ ♪ it's a little pill with a big story to tell ♪

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katty. it's 51 past the hour. joining us now, president emeritus on the council of foreign relations, richard haass. he is the author of the weekly newsletter "home and away," available on substack. richard, we've been talking about this disturbing imagery that donald trump has put out, talking about liz cheney in the most violent way imaginable. she is pushing back and using her voice. if you could talk about that, especially in light of the fact that major newspapers and billionaire men have capitulated already to donald trump. >> two things, mika. one, i just spent the week in saudi arabia. what's interesting is how many of the conversations with saudis, discreet ones, were, we don't quite recognize you anymore. >> right. >> this is not the america we knew when we went to school there or visited. by the way, who are you anymore to lecture us? we see what's happening, the degrading of your democracy, the violence in your society. just, you know, hold back,

americans, before you tell us how to run our societies. that's one takeaway i had. the other was, there are a lot of wealthy american businessmen there. there was this davos in the desert conference. three-quarters of the poll was coming out for donald trump. my view was why? here's this economy doing extraordinarily well, and you would have thought a lot of them would say, you know, our stocks are at an all-time high. it wasn't clear to me exactly what they were doing. it was a reminder that how often people act against their own self-interest. also, the jeff bezos thing at large. >> let me jump in on that. earlier, you know, i called out my friend at "the wall street journal," paul gigot, like, what are you doing? are you paying attention? i do need to call up my boss, jeff bezos. you know, is this the year to start not endorsing a candidate for president? >> is this the week? >> his statement conflicted with "the washington post" statement. come on, just use your eyes.

>> yeah. >> this is just not the time. in fact, this is the time to speak out against what it is that is happening. jonathan lemire, while i'm trying to shed a light on what's already happened because of the consequences of first trump presidency, what is happening to women in extremely detailed ways that shows the trauma, the pain that they and their families are going through, including the men who love them, so i think the fact that women are being denied life-saving health care in hospitals impacts women and men and families. everybody is left broken by what is happening to these women. but i also shutter, and i do think we need to talk more about what america's foreign policy is. what america's national security looks like in a second trump term. because that is -- it makes your head explode when you think of the possibilities.

>> i think he gave a lot of strong hints in his first term. i was there at nato when he was there in brussels, where he almost pulled the united states out of an alliance. a few days later, he stood next to vladimir putin in helsinki and said he believed putin over u.s. intelligence agents. we'd pull out of major alliances. the aid to ukraine will likely stop. you were just in the middle east. tell us how you think it could impact the policy there. the rest of the world is watching, holding their breath, because it is going to be a very different united states if trump wins next week. >> not only explain what will happen but why it matters. why maybe a busy american who is just tuning in right now should care about this. >> let's start with that because that's the most basic question, why it matters. look, you know, we have these two oceans, the last i checked, on either side of us, atlantic and pacific. whatever else they are, they're not motes. what happens out there affects what's here. look what's going on in the

world economically. terrorism, we've had 9/11. north korea is testing missiles with increasing range and accuracy. they're getting help from russia at the same time they're sending forces to russia to help deal with the war there. china could be moving against taiwan over the next four years. this is a world more turbulent than ever and, in some ways, more dangerous than ever. the idea we can insulate ourselves from it, we may stick our head in the sand, but that's not a foreign policy that can work. the rest of the world watches this campaign, jonathan, and the idea there is a gap between the candidates unnerves them. it used to be when we'd have presidential elections, the presumption of continuity was great. that's important. if you have alliances, these are counties that made a bet that america is reliable and predictable. the fact we've now become much more reliable, much less predictable, for our friends, this is the most unnerving

thing. we're beginning to see they're hedging against america, looking for other alternatives. for example, south korea, 70% of the people in south korea now favor having nuclear weapons. things like that. in the world, the american influence goes on and dependence on us goes down. this is a world that has the potential to become much more violent. >> willie. >> richard, let me ask about what you're writing about today in substack, which is this idea that secretary blinken confirmed yesterday. north korean troops will be moving into russia to join the fight against ukraine. you're writing about what you called the gang of four, china, russia, north korea, and iran, forming this partnership. the leaders of three of those places, with the exception of iran, received lavish praise from donald trump. >> yeah, it's much more extensive, willie, than we originally thought. you know, what we're seeing, for example, is not just a military and troops going into russia. we're not sure, 3,000 of them,

could be more. we'll see what else they do. we also believe russia is providing technological help to north korea to advance its nuclear and missile program. china is already helping russia by transferring technology that has military implications. iran has been sending things to russia. this is a whole network that essentially opposes the united states, opposes democracy, which they see as a threat to their political systems, and is increasingly willing and able to act against us. you know, we've entered a new era of history. after the cold war ended, the united states enjoyed a degree of primacy. we were really unchallenged. that year is over. in part because of the rise of others and their hostility. in part because of our own divisions here at home. this is a very different world. i would say a much less safe one for us. >> richard, there are reports coming out of israel that iran may be preparing some kind of retaliatory attack against

israel, potentially launching attacks from iraq or somewhere like that. but how damaging -- and we kind of thought this was put to bed and it was over, but it looks like it may not be -- this could potentially come on the eve of the u.s. presidential election. what would the implications of that be? >> exactly right. i was one of those who thought it might have been put to bed. it looked for a few days as if israel and iran figured out a way of managing their rivalry without having it escalate, but maybe not. when i was in the middle east this week, there was growing talk about how the revolutionary guards, the core of the iranian military, is increasingly separate. it's almost governing itself. they were the ones who, you know, ordered the shooting of the missiles against israel. there's a split within the iranian government. if they decide they want to escalate, then the case isn't closed. the israelis have already demonstrated their ability to attack iran. they wiped out a lot of the air defense systems.

this is the one crisis in the middle east that has the potential to have global implications, given energy, iran's ability to go after saudi arabia and others. what's happened in gaza and is still happening in gaza is god awful, but it is essentially local, even though the israelis are pressing ahead and are now talking about a long-term occupation. what's happening in the north between israel and hezbollah, we'll see how that plays out. again, it's local. the israeli-iran dynamic the one thing in the region that has the potential in terms of the energy prices and a larger conflict, has the potential to be much more than local. we already have a crisis in europe, potential ones in asia. this could be a third geography. that's the last thing we in the world need right now. >> richard haass, thank you very much. exactly the top of the hour. earlier, i mentioned "the economist," which has formally issued an endorsement for kamala harris for president. it writes in part, "while some

newspapers refuse to back a presidential candidate this year, today "the economist" is endorsing kamala harris. tens of millions of americans will vote for mr. trump next week. some will be true believers. but many will take a calculated risk that in office his worst instincts would be constrained. we see that as recklessly complacent. by making mr. trump leader of the free world, americans would be gambling with the economy, the rule of law, and international peace. ms. harris's shortcomings, by contrast, are ordinary, and none of them are disqualifying. if "the economist" had a vote, we would cast it for her." let's bring in editor in chief of "the economist," zanny minton beddoes. was there any discussion of not

endorsing at this moment in time, and why did "the economist" make the pretty blistering editorial, collect i editorial that it did, against donald trump? >> great to join you again. no, there was never a question that we would not do an endorsement. we have done, as you said, an endorsement every presidential election since 1980. we write endorsements for many other countries' elections, too. in the u.s., we've endorsed republicans in the past and democrats. we are nonpartisan. we are really beholden only to our traditional english liberal values that we were founded on 180 years ago to champion. free markets, individual freedom, and so forth. every week, as you know, we write editorials offering advice to political leaders around the world on policies. it would be weird, therefore, for us to decide not to endorse a candidate. i had no doubt we were going to endorse. and every time we have a similar approach, which is quite different to u.s. publications. we convene all our journalists in a room, and we have a long

discussion. i always ask somebody to make the best possible case for both candidates. we did that this time. we did it a week ago because i was in the middle east earlier this week. we had a very long, detailed discussion about what we should -- what people thought. then i kind of framed the editorial, a colleague of mine wrote it, and it was a collective effort. it's one that brings all our journalists together. ultimately, it's obviously my responsibility, but this has nothing to do with anybody outside our journalism. we're truly independent. we believe that there's no contradiction between having a view and an opinion and being independent. >> zanny, i read the editorial, and it seems to be more a case against donald trump than it is a case for kamala harris. make the case against donald trump, and particularly, the comparison you make with 2016 and how the world is different now and how the american guardrails against him are different now. >> yeah, katty, you're absolutely right. this is really a leader about donald trump and the

unacceptable risk we think he poses to america and the world. the audience that we had in mind when we wrote this was our many readers who are republicans. we have republicans and democrat readers, and we didn't want this to be a grand statement for the history books. we wanted to try to lay out to those readers that we have, who are likely to vote for donald trump, why we think he poses a risk. there are really three sets of reasons. these are people who, i think, will have seen in the first trump term that, actually, there was a lot of bombast and drama, but the economy did pretty well. he wasn't as catastrophic as people feared. these are people probably who don't like him as a person, don't see him as a role model for their kids, but they think the risks around him are overblown. we think what he'd do with the economy is way more dangerous than 2016. his tariff policy, his promise to deport millions of undocumented migrants, his

reckless tax policy, all these things from a straight economic perspective are much more dangerous than people realize. secondly, as richard haass laid out to you, the world is much more dangerous. in 2016, the world was a pretty complicated place, but it was nothing like what we have now with two wars raging, with growing axis of evil, whatever you want to call it, between iran, north korea, countries like that, russia. this is a time when america needs its alliances. actually, one of the great strengths of the biden administration has been to rebuild alliances and relationships with countries around the world. donald trump, if one thing we know about him, he is unpredictable. the other is he has a contempt for alliances. that's the second reason. and the third reason is that we think he'd be much more unconstrained. there is a real risk that he threatens america's institutions. in 2016, there were a lot of grown-ups around him. this is a well-known argument, but there were grown-ups in the room. this time, we think it is much more likely it'd be, you know, not the serious grown-ups.

when you have the former chairman of the joint chiefs of staff who worked for him, his own chief of staff, calling him a fascist. when you have half his cabinet unwilling to support him, these are references that if you were hiring someone for a job, you'd really think twice about hiring someone where you have those references, the people who had worked closely with that person before. add all of that together, we think it is just an unacceptable risk. look, i hope if he is elected president, that we will be wrong and those risks don't come to pass. but i think the risk of a trump presidency, it is hard to quantify but it is too big. i think kamala harris, she may not be great. i would be delighted if she was, but she may well be a mediocre president, but she doesn't pose the catastrophic risk. >> zanny, good morning. let's talk about the economy for a moment. i'm looking at your recent cover, striking cover that says, "the american economy is the envy of the world," with a picture of $100 bills rolling up

and blasting off. we'll get an employment number a short time this morning that many expect to be good for the american economy. we got a gdp number that was good for the more than economy. inflation is still too high for many people in the country. goods cost too much, but it is headed in the right direction, as well. we've heard so much from trump's side that america is a hell hole, that the country has been destroyed by joe biden and by association, kamala harris. from your point of view, with your expertise, all the writers at your magazine, what is the state of the american economy heading into election day? >> the american economy is in an extraordinary good place. that's why we put it on the cover. one reason people don't feel it, there's been a period of high inflation. it scars people. people remember how high prices were, and i understand that. relative to other countries, and

in absolute term, the u.s. economy is in a really, really strong place. at the same time, i worry that that makes people complacent about what are the underlying strengths? it's not a god-given right that the u.s. economy is a strong economy. it depends on having sensible policies, as well as the u.s. natural strength. a huge, you know, energy endowment, a huge market, liquid capital market. people want to invest in america because america has the talent, america has the relatively light regulatory touch, and america is a stable place. all of those things could be threatened. i think it's just a mistake to think that you can take for granted american economic strength. you can't. it can be messed up. >> it certainly can. and just to follow up, you look at all the economists, zanny, what are talking about just how bad donald trump's policies would be for working class and middle class americans, how bad

it'd be for our businesses. i could go down a long list. you've seen the overwhelming majority of economists saying he could wreck our economy. on the other side, i do want to ask you a bit about, you said, kamala harris may not be great. i don't know if what your personal feeling is or what the editorial board's personal feeling is, but kamala harris has been part of an administration -- and i'm not -- i'm not leading you here, and i'm not making a campaign commercial. i am, though, following up on the kamala harris may not be that great. she's part of an administration that has overseen an economy coming out of covid, which was made far worse than donald trump, which is the envy of the world, as you said yesterday. "the wall street journal" said the next president will inherit a remarkably strong economy. look at militarily relative to the rest of the world, stronger than ever.

kamala harris' economic policy, talking about tax cuts for small business owners, for entrepreneurs, for first-time homebuyers. you can go on and on. in her closing speeches, instead of talking about executing political opponents, she's talking about consensus, compromise, moving to the center, bringing people that may disagree with her to the center, to the table to talk and forge consensus. do you expect more than that, i guess i should say? >> you make a good point, and i don't disagree with a lot of what you said. but kamala harris' economic policies are certainly better than donald trump. no doubt. are they, from my perspective, an ideal set of policies? no. let me just give you a couple examples. the u.s. right now has a budget deficit around 6% of gdp. one of the highest in peacetime.

we should not be in a position where it gets any bigger. although her fiscal policy is less reckless than donald trump's, it's not clear to me that she has laid out a kind of particularly prudent fiscal policy. secondly, and this is something we've had issues with the biden administration for the last four years, the u.s. has shifted even under president biden to a much more interventionist industrial policy. it has not rolled back some of the tariffs on china and other countries. we happen to believe that, actually, free market and competitive forces are really part of the strength of the u.s. so are there things i would want to tweak with the harris, you know, policy platform? yes. >> of course. >> but in relative terms, you're absolutely right, the threat posed by trump, i think, is much higher. and one thing that's worth mentioning, i think, because people say this the whole time. yeah, you're always going on about how dangerous donald trump is, but look at the first term. it is possible he doesn't do all the things he said, but

supporting a candidate on the basis that they're not going to do what they say they're going to do seems, to me, to be a somewhat illogical position to take. >> well, especially when you consider that people say, well, he didn't arrest hillary clinton. he tried to with two attorneys general and they said no. tried to arrest joe biden two weeks before the election. his attorney general, barr, said, no, i won't do it. i disagree on tariffs and deficits, you're right, but every economist i read said donald trump does far more damage than kamala harris. all right. thank you so much. greatly appreciate it. editor in chief of "the economist," zanny minton beddoes. we appreciate it. >> thank you. here again is what donald trump said yesterday about liz cheney. a republican congresswoman. how he said she should get shot in the face by nine rifles. >> she's a radical warhawk.

let's put her with the rifle standing there with nine barrels shooting at her, okay? let's see how she feels about it. you know, when the guns are trained on her face. you know, they're all warhawks when they're sitting in washington in a nice building saying, "oh geez, let's send 10,000 troops right into the mouth of the enemy." but she's a stupid person. >> joining the conversation, we have nbc news national affairs analyst and a partner in chief political columnist at "puck," john heilemann. and contributing writer for "the atlantic," and a former speechwriter for george w. bush, pete waner. good to have you both on the show this morning. joe, the comments don't age well. they get more chilling as i see them. again, we are looking at a pattern now of language being used by the former president that fits the definition of fascist.

this is taking it to a whole new level. >> couple weeks ago, he talked about using the national guard on liz cheney -- not liz cheney -- or nancy pelosi and adam schiff. >> mm-hmm. >> using the military unconstitutionally, of course, but using the military. >> enemy from within. >> to arrest his political opponents. who he calls the enemy within because they're -- >> they don't like him. >> -- his political positive -- opponents. >> yeah. >> now, let's look at the headline from "drudge." john heilemann, now, he's talking about republicans, and this is quite specific. this is something that anti anti-trump apologists can't brush away. he is literally saying that liz cheney should have nine rifles trained on her face and should be shooting at her. this is his closing weekend. this is the closing argument of

his campaign. after spending the last couple of weeks talking about using the military to arrest his political opponents and talking about shutting down cbs news because he didn't like the way they edited a package. >> you know, joe, one of those things we talk sometimes about is trump's age and his various infirmities, the mental acuity that's declined so dramatically. there's one other aspect of what happens to a lot of people at least as they get older. you know, their true nature comes out more. you meet a lot of people in their 80s, and they are whatever they are. they get boiled down to their essence in some sense. you are seeing this here under all the pressure of this campaign. the stakes for donald trump, the personal stakes. someone i think, maybe lemire this morning, reminded us, you

know, not that we need reminded, but it's good to keep in mind, the stakes for donald trump losing the race are likely imprisonment. we know that donald trump has been -- one of the things he's the most afraid of, most nakedly afraid of his adult life is spending time behind bars. i think when you see some of the evidence piling up, you've cited it this morning, the fact the early vote data, which can be misleading and overinterpreted, but it doesn't bode well particularly for the campaign, the gender gap in terms of who is voting early, whether it is in person or by mail, it's just so overwhelmingly female. the gap, the gender gap in terms of who is voting will therefore translate, if anything, into advantages for democrats. i think the panic is setting in. in that situation, the essence of trump is coming out. you focused rightly, again, on what he literally says here.

i want to focus on figuratively on what he is saying yesterday about liz cheney. i'm grateful you often quote me saying that everything with trump is often projection or confession. this is the projection of a violent, dark fantasy. he is imagining and, in some sense, kind of getting off on the image, the idea of liz cheney being put in front of a bunch of weapon and having them shot at her. i think that is perfectly in keeping with someone who is -- where the essence of who he is is coming out. the violent essence of what he's always represented is coming out. in the moment when the crunch is on in the final days, he's starting to realize what might lie ahead for him if things go wrong on tuesday. >> in keeping with the fascist playbook, first you get people's attention. donald trump gets ahold of everyone's attention. came down the escalator, and everybody was taking a look. then we started to see people fall into the cult. you shock people.

you shock them with the worst behavior, the worst language ever possible, until it is normalized. jonathan lemire, to me, it's wishful thinking, a dream maybe, that someone like mitch mcconnell or the speaker of the house or john thune, somebody who has stayed within the lines of what donald trump considers good behbehavior, steps out, lo at the cameras and says, no, no. >> i think this is why liz cheney is sort of a case of one. she is the one who has showed the bravery to not just denounce trump -- and we know she was part of the trump january 6th investigation -- but to go all the way and say, i'm not just not voting for trump, but i'm voting for kamala harris. i wouldn't be surprised if we hear from mitt romney condemning this violent rhetoric.

but at the same time, mitt romney is not voting for kamala harris. >> i hope we hear from others. >> the vast majority of other republican officials won't say anything at all. >> mitch mcconnell said he didn't like the idea of kamala harris referring to him, john kelly, that he -- >> they've gone the opposite direction, doubled down on the trump support. i'm sure it'll be the same with this rhetoric. peter, i want to go to you. you've been writing and thinking about the impact on the conservative movement here in this upcoming election. in many ways, donald trump more dangerous to american conservatives than kamala harris. >> i think that's right. his instincts are more fascistic than conservative. if you go down policies, zanny with "the economy" went through a lot of them, he's not conservative. he is populist in his views. i would say mostly in his sensibilities and dispositions. his call for civic violence,

termination of the constitution, lawlessness, the nihilism. that whole package is contrary to conservatism. whether it's the conservatism of edmund burke or james madison or lincoln or reagan. he's an enemy of conservatism. he wants to burn things down. one other thing i want to add to this, jonathan, is john heilemann is right. this is the essence of trump but it's always been. he's sociopathic. the important story, at least an incredibly important part of this story, is this appeals to his base. he is pretty finely attuned to what they want to hear. the fact that he is closing this campaign and pitching his closing argument having to do with killing people, and it's more and more deranged, just illustrates what a cult of personality the republican party

has become. it is almost impossible to think. if you'd said in 2016, you listed ten things donald trump is saying now or has done now, and said to people at the time, would you support him under that case? first, they would have accused you of trump derangement syndrome. they'd say, he never would have done those things. and if he would have done it, they would have said, of course we'd break with him. but what's happened? his bond is stronger than it's ever been. this is a frightening story of what can happen to a generally good and decent nation when a demagogue gets in control and appeals to the darkest instincts, in this case a political party, the republican party. >> pete, good morning. it's been a long decade for actual conservatives like you and joe who believe in crazy things like the constitution and balanced budgets and personal freedom for women, things like that. i'm curious what your message is, or even in your private conversations when you talk to

your conservative republican friends who have become trumpists at the end of the day. i talk to them all the time. we have conversations. we have dinners. as you say, they're so quick to dismiss all this. he's not going to put 200% tariffs on people. he's not going to round up his enemies. he's not going to have general milley thrown in jail or even killed. that's just trump being trump. they're so willing to look the other way. what is your message there to some of those people who may still be persuadable, independents who think that way and are considering their vote with a few days left here? >> yeah, good question, willie. there are several elements to it. one is, actually, kamala harris is not the wild-eyed radical that she's portrayed or that she was in 2019. she'll govern, in all likelihood, center left. beyond that, it's not just speculation in what donald trump might do or say. it's what he has done or what he has tried. joe went through and i think made a powerful case, which is, he's already done things or

attempted to do things in the first term that should have disqualified him. the last thing is, when a person who is fascistic uses fascist language, you have to take them seriously. >> you know, pete, for nine years, for ten years, i've been trying to talk to conservatives. i know you've been trying to talk to conservatives. people that you and i spent most of our adult life working with to do dramatic things like balancing the budget, pushing back on russian aggression, you know, i could go down the list. can we really quickly, just for those that are listening right now, as jesus would say, for those who have ear to hear, hear. he is the anantithesis.

go back to the new testament, the gospels of jesus christ. donald trump personally is the antithesis of every beattitude, everything you would read in the sermon of the mount. if you want to talk politics instead of theology, he's the antithesis of edmund burke, who said radicals can tear down institutions in one day that were built up over centuries by compromise, by compromise, by custom, by convention, by prudence. you have russell kirk in "the conservative mind," in the introduction, saying, we have to look at the world. we have to make our decisions not based on rabid ideology, or as you said, a personality cult, but we have to decide as conservatives, do we attach

ourselves to the party of permanence or attach ourselves to the party of progress? that choice does not depend on ideology. it depends on what is in front of us right now. then you could look through the speeches of ronald reagan, the writings of charles krauthhammer. everything they have said. everything conservatives have said or written since burke's reflections on the revolution in france. they've all pointed in the opposite direction of donald trump. yet, here the republican party is, pete. why? and how does this fever break? >> yeah, that's an elegant case you've made, and i completely agree with it, joe. ultimately, it breaks by several things happening. the first is donald trump has to lose. now, if he loses in this

election, it's still going to take time. there are so many mini trumps, and the disposition, sentiments of the republican party has been warped. it's no longer a conservative party. that has to happen. second thing, you have to have leaders rise up who are able to make the case that you did. new figures and to update the message in a way that resonates with people. third is just, you know, there are times in life one just has to be faithful and to make the arguments. you need circumstances to change, moments to change. you can make an argument at one time in life and the life of a country, in the life of a relationship, where your arguments don't gain traction. but something else happens. external circumstances, moods change, attitudes change. all of a sudden, those things begin to have traction. some of it is being prepared. faithfully making the argument, you know, as best we can, and

hoping that in an age of reason, it replaces this age of irrationality. it's the moment in which we're in. you know, we have to do it. the last thing i'll say is, it just takes in this election to chip away at a few. you're not going to win over the entirety of the republican party. you just have to win over enough to get her over the finish line. that's the first task we face. >> contributing writer for "the atlantic," pete wehner, thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. we appreciate it. >> thanks. still ahead on "morning joe," senior adviser for the harris-walz campaign, ian sams is standing by. he joins us next to weigh in on the state of the race with four days to go until election day. and before we go to break, willie, what do you have planned for "sunday today"? >> well, obviously, we're going to be focused on the election, mika. by sunday, it'll be 48 hours from the polls opening. we'll have steve kornacki at the

big board breaking down the path to 270 and what he says may be a quicker vote count than people are anticipating. then we'll have a palate cleanser, relieve you of the stress, joined by our good friend, larry david. come on, l.d. talking about the end of "curb your enthusiasm" this year. also, he is out on tour right now. conversations with larry david, walk around the old neighborhood, talking about "curb," "seinfeld," and everything else with larry david, coming up this weekend on "sunday today." we'll be right back here on "morning joe." a, we believe your healthcare should evolve with you, and part of that evolution means choosing the right medicare plan for you. humana can help. with original medicare you're covered for hospital stays and doctor office visits, but you'll have to pay a deductible for each. a medicare supplement plan pays for some or all of your original medicare deductibles, but they may have higher monthly premiums and no

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robert f. kennedy jr. we have. he's going to work on health and women's health and all of the different reasons. we're not really a wealthy -- or a healthy country. he really wants to, with the pesticides and, you know, all the different things, i said he could do it. he can do anything he wants. he wants to look at the vaccines. he wants to -- everything. i think it's great. i think it's great. [ applause ] the only thing i say so bobby is, leave the liquid gold under our feet alone. we want to have a little gasoline. >> donald trump suggesting robert f. kennedy jr. could become one of the country's leading authorities on both women and childhood health care

if the former president wins re-election. then adding, for some reason, something about oil, which is at record highs in terms of production. rfk jr. has repeatedly, of course, amplified disinformation about vaccinations being linked to autism, even though years of research across several countries debunked that claim. he at one time called for a federal abortion ban and tried to walk that back over the last year or so. suffice it to say, he's been all over the place on abortion, as well. let's bring in senior adviser to the harris-walz campaign, ian sams. good morning. i'm looking at the schedule today. your campaign is in wisconsin. tomorrow is georgia and north carolina. on sunday in michigan. then on monday in pennsylvania. no one will be able to accuse you, whatever happens on tuesday, of not having covered and spending time in the battleground state. i'm curious for our viewers who are anxious at this moment, and rightly so because the race is so close, you you're all feeling

about the race this morning. >> thanks for having me. look, we're encouraged by what we're seeing. we're seeing women voting in record numbers in the early vote. we're seeing the trump campaign already starting to worry about some of their coalition not turning out in the early vote. and we're seeing late breakers coming our way. undecided voters are making up their minds and swinging towards vice president harris. i think, you know, you guys have been talking about it on air and showing it. i think we can see why. donald trump is talking about putting one of the most extreme figures in our politics in charge of women's health. undecided swing voters are repulsed by that. donald trump is talking about unleashing guns on liz cheney, a republican who is supporting vice president harris. i don't think undecided swing voters are turned on by that, as well. we're seeing increasingly as we close this campaign undecided voters who are making up their minds coming to the vice president. we're seeing strong enthusiasm among democrats. just yesterday, gallup is out

with a new survey showing a ten-point enthusiasm gap between the republicans and democrats. we feel really good about where we are. it'll be a tight race. unprecedented situation where all seven battleground states are within the margin of ere ror. this could come down to 10,000 votes in numerous states. we're prepared for that. we think that we are on a path to victory. we're looking forward to winning. >> ian, it seems like the trump campaign sort of locking arms with fox news and others and putting blinders on. if joe biden says something about garbage and misspeaks a little bit, they don't remember or avoid the fact that donald trump said this country is a garbage can, among other things that invoke the word garbage. again, mark cuban said something about women, it's all people who bend to trump's will and seem to put themselves in a category. with the help of rupert murdoch, i actually thought it said, say

it to their fascists. but it said, "say it to their faces." there's a lot of support here. there's a lot of teaming up to try to make sure misinformation gets out there or avoidance of real stories gets out there, as well. at the same time, this appears to be part of donald trump's closing argument. take a look. >> she's a radical warhawk. let's put her with a rifle standing there with nine barrels shooting at her, okay? let's see how she feels about it. you know, when the guns are trained on her face. you know, they're all warhawks when they're sitting in washington in a nice building saying, oh, gee, let's send 10,000 troops right into the mouth of the enemy. but she's a stupid person. >> talking about liz cheney. she did release a statement, but i'd also like to hear what the campaign has to say about this. what does this kind of language

portend? >> well, you heard the vice president talk exactly about things like this on tuesday night in her closing argument. donald trump is so all consumed by his grievances. the people who he disagrees with and who he sees as opposing him politically, he treats as enemies. he spent the last month talking about the enemy from within the united states. now, he's going after liz cheney with this dangerous, violent rhetoric. i mean, think about the contrast between these two candidates. you have donald trump who is talking about sending a prominent republican to the firing squad, and you have vice president harris talking about sending one to her cabinet. this is the difference in this race. you have one candidate who is extending an arm and saying, we may not agree on everything, that's okay. i may make mistakes. you may not like me on every issue. that's okay. but we have to turn the page on this division and this anger and, frankly, the instability that we see from donald trump, if we ever want to move forward as a country. if we ever want to get anything

done that actually matters for your life. he's going to sit in the oval office stewing over his enemies list, of people who he perceives as his political opponents as his enemies. she's going to sit in the oval office and actually focus on a to-do list of priorities for the american people. lowering costs, protecting reproductive freedom. these are the things she is talking about over and over again in her campaign. we have new polls out overnight from marist, for example, in the battleground states. donald trump's lead on the economy has been erased. people are hearing from her about her actual plans to bring down costs, while all donald trump does is attack his enemies, attack his opponents, talk about his own problems. we think that's actually resonating with voters. we think that that's contributing to the fact that undecided swing voters at the end of this race are break their way. they are seeing, regardless of the disinformation being churned out on the right, undecided voters, independent voters, even republican voters who aren't

very comfortable with donald trump, they are seeing this rhetoric. they are seeing what happened at madison square garden. it is turning them off. it is bringing them closer and closer to supporting vice president harris, if not already casting their vote for vice president harris. >> katty. >> your campaign does seem to be more confident just in the last few days, and i think all of us reporters are hearing some of that. but you lookd trump is criticizing the vote as fraudulent in pennsylvania. he's raising questions about georgia. he seems to be saying that there is cheating already happening. it seems pretty likely that whatever happens, shortly after the result is called or even beforehand, donald trump will say that he's won. what are your preparations for that moment? how is your campaign going to respond? how much focus and resources are you putting into the hours and days after the close of voting on tuesday? >> well, it's a good question, but i think when you start this conversation, you have to call it what it is.

donald trump looks weak. this is a moment of weakness for him. he sees his numbers are not what they need to be among seniors, among men. he sees the way he is losing women by a historic margin. he is scared he is going to lose. that is what is driving this. he's making up baseless claims of fraud, even before we get to election day, because he is scared he is going to lose this race. he is desperate to blame anything other than himself. so that is first and foremost what is happening. now, he is going to try to foment discord. he is going to try to say he won even if he didn't win. and he is going to fail. he did this in 2020. he had lawsuit after lawsuit after lawsuit after lawsuit alleging fraud. they all failed. we have hundreds of lawyers ready to protect the vote, make sure there is integrity.

they're ready to hold donald trump accountable. we are seeing the press release stunts that the trump campaign is doing. we're going to court to force decisions early so we can beat them. we've won two dozen cases just in the last month of these bogus claims that republicans are putting out there because they are not rooted in fact. at the end of the day, we are confident our institutions will hold. we are confident we will win in court because the facts are on our side. and the only reason donald trump is doing this is because he is worried he's going to lose. he is worried he can't win fair and square. it is probably because he is seeing what we're seeing, which is the voters that are going to decide this election are making up their minds and going for vice president harris. >> senior adviser to the harris-walz campaign, ian sims, thank you so much for coming on this morning. we really appreciate it. coming up, donald trump has threatened to criminally prosecute several of his political rivals.

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know, the staff members. the most important person in government i think after the president for this cycle is going to be the attorney general. because we really do have to clean house. the broken leadership of the department of justice, it's got to work for equal justice under law. we need a strong, smart, courageous attorney general. >> donald trump's running mate, senator jd vance, earlier this month talking about another -- about the importance of the justice department in a potential trump/vance administration. let's talk about that. let's bring in nbc news national security editor david rohde. he's the co-author of a piece on nbcnews.com. it asks the question, "would justice department and fbi officials carry out trump's prosecutions of his rivals?" great timing for this, given his violent comments about liz cheney that we are talking about this morning. you cite legal experts who are

concerned about how. how would it be possible if trump could weapon size the department of justice in his second term? you write in part this. a professor of legal ethics at the nyu school of law says it, quote, saddens me to say, but there is no question that trump would be able to find lawyers willing to carry out his wishes in the justice department. you're dealing with 1.3 million american lawyers, gillers said. no doubt he will find 1,000 who will endorse his goals and seek to achieve them. former justice department and fbi official said, it's hard to envision that u.s. law enforcement wouldn't be severely hampered by what would be likely to ensue in a second trump administration. let's assume that you have the numbers. you go in and just whack a good portion of the workforce, a former justice department official said. i don't care who you put in,

it's no longer a functioning institution. can i add to that another layer? he's immune. he has immunity. >> yeah, i mean, we sat down and tried to be fair. >> table tops. >> yeah, current and former republicans and democrats. >> right. >> they all came to the same conclusion. you're looking at chaos, deadlock, legal battles. >> right. >> and a slowing down of the basic work of the justice department, which is confronting fentanyl traffickers, confronting russia, china, and other countries, and their activities in this country. the stakes are enormous. he can do this. he can take over and weaponize the justice department. >> let me emphasize before we go to jonathan lemire. he can do this. can the process be carried out against an enemy, someone he an doesn't like or someone he just decides without evidence? >> he can appoint a special counsel. he can set up a task force. there are two checks.

>> there are ways to do it, though, without enemy combatant. >> absolutely. >> are there ways to do it that you can just arrest people? >> he can indict people. the only thing that would stop him would be a judge saying there's no evidence of this and you can't bring forward this criminal trial, and finally it would fall down to a judge, which we all have, a judge of our peers, but he could hold the trial in a part of the country where a jury might be more favorable to him. >> certainly chilling comments, david. let's talk about last time when he was president, there were guardrails. at times his own attorney general stood up against him. bill barr said we're not going to go after the bidens. jeff sessions, drew the line and said we can't do that. this time around, though, there's an expectation there won't be those guardrails. tell us about some of the people who might be attorney general for second term. >> one name that's come up is jeff clark, the election denier

who wanted to come in before january 6th. he was stopped by other republicans, republicans in the justice department who refused to let him come in, threatened to resign, led by jeff rosen. they were heroic. and there's people in the justice department, republicans and democrats, who won't go along with this, but they will be fired. another name, mike davis, talked about working as an acting attorney general. you can have an acting attorney general, any cabinet member, for 210 days. he doesn't need senate confirmation. >> that's where it happens. >> yes, and he's talked on a conservative podcast about a reign of terror, where he would serve as the acting attorney general, indict joe biden. >> where have i heard reign of terror, jonathan? >> they have been clear they learned lessons in the first four years, and have an idea about who they need to get appointed. the last line of defense, it's

been the case with trump on a lot of fronts that judiciary has kind of held the line, certainly held the line in 2020 on the stolen election claims. trump has had an influence over the judiciary in various ways. how much should anybody feel comforted by the notion that in some of these cases a judge could stop the worst abuses of the case. or should we be looking and say, whoa, trump has transformed the judiciary and the transformation of the judiciary means the last line of defense could be weaker than it was before? >> it's weaker. one of the people he's talked about appointing as attorney general is aileen cannon, who threw out the documents case. he's broken a precedent. there was a sense no judge would be overtly partisan. she made this ruling. it will likely be overturned by reasonable judges. this is the stakes. the judge who throws away arguably the strongest criminal

case against him would be his new attorney general. she's on a list that abc news reported, and that's the seriousness of the situation. >> nbc news national security editor david rohde, thank you very much. his book, "where tyranny begins," the justice department, the fbi and the war on democracy is on sale now. this would be a good time to read it. this weekend. perhaps before you vote. coming up -- thank you very much, david, we appreciate it -- we'll go through the early voting numbers and which presidential candidate has the advantage days before the election. plus, there is a red flag for the trump campaign in a key swing state. we'll tell you what it is. plus, we will speak with a woman who is another example of the traumatic and near fatal impact of the trump abortion bans, the impact it's having across the country, something i talked about yesterday on late night with seth meyers.

>> it's a very long day. i appreciate someone who starts their day -- you don't start your day, but you're on camera at 6:00 a.m. >> on camera 6:00 a.m. to 10:00 a.m. every day. and i say sort of because it's a stressful time. anything going on? >> again, i'm talking about it 15 minutes a day, and you guys are talking about it four hours a day. >> yes. >> to talk about anything four hours a day is daunting, here you are in the final days, how are you processing it all? >> i think women and the men who get it will be the beacon of hope in this election. [ cheers and applause ] >> i think what i'm feeling is i'm just working as hard as i can to tell the stories of what the consequences of a second trump presidency would be, and it comes down to women because women are already suffering the trump's america that came out of his first presidency. >> right. the fall of roe. >> this is the thing he accomplished, the thing he brags

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♪♪ still healed, donald trump's rhetoric toward liz cheney hits a new and disturbing level. violent. we'll play for you those comments and show you her response. plus, joe's conversation with elton john who has a new musical on broadway about

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the most recent in a series of examples that we have seen from him in his words and deeds about how he devalues the ability of women to have the choice and the freedom to make decisions about their own body. >> and by the way, i looked at her this morning, she had a little news conference, it lasted for like two minutes. she's exhausted. you know?

she's exhausted. she's a train wreck who is totally unqualified to be the president of the united states of america. there are some people who thrive under pressure, and there are some people who crack under pressure, she's a cracker. and the more pressure kamala, the more pressure kamala has, the more you see it happening. no, she's cracking. >> okay. that's just -- >> he was asleep. i mean, what was it? >> did he say she was a cracker? i am confused. there's so many things wrong with that, and we'll just leave it there on this friday morning. >> yeah, you know, mika, there's so much worse out there. you wake up this morning, and you look at the front of the top

of drudge, "the drudge report", and which really sets the unfortunate demise of twitter, of x, whatever you want to call it. >> i can't do it anymore. something's wrong with it. >> you know, i have been on it every day, you know, since, what, 2009, 2010, and i can't believe -- it's just gotten so bad. it's just straight on disinformation. >> right. ugly images. pop-ups. >> turned into a terrible site. you can't really even get your news. so i deleted it from my phone, which is really unfortunate because, again, it's just been for a decade, well over a decade, it's a go-to for a great news feed. on the top, and guys, if we can screen shot "drudge" and put it up, that would be great.

so this is where donald trump who began his campaign saying i am your vengeance, shows at the end exactly what i am your vengeance means. the drudge report, trump calls for cheney execution. >> yeah. >> and he says that she should have nine guns trained at her face. let's put her with a rifle standing there with nine barrels shooting at her. a firing squad, obviously, and that's where we end. and, you know, mika, it's -- well, actually, it's more direct than if she had guns pointed at her. he actually says, let's put her with a rifle standing there with

nine barrels shooting at her. nine barrels shooting at her. this is his final pitch going into the final weekend of one of the most important campaigns, and a campaign that starts with i am your retribution ends with, liz cheney needs to be in a firing squad with nine barrels shooting at her. let's take a look at the bite right now. >> she's a radical war hawk. let's put her with a rifle standing there with nine barrels shooting at her. okay. let's see how she feels about it. you know, when the guns are trained on her face. you know, they're all war hawks when they're sitting in washington in a nice building saying, oh, gee, let's send 10,000 troops right into the mouth of the enemy. but she's a stupid person.

>> nine barrels shooting at her face. this is, again, i want the "wall street journal" editorial page to look at this because, you know, we have been spending a lot of time rightly about "the washington post". bending to the will of donald trump and the los angeles times, bending to the will of donald trump and actually banning. keep that up. actually banning, keep that up, please. actually banning, banning editorials where their editorial team calls for harris's selection, but let's go back to the "wall street journal" who i have noted and i read to you every day, whether you want to hear it or not, have, because for most of the time, they have actually called out donald trump's excesses, but as we go to the final weeks of the campaign, donald trump goes on

bloomberg. he says the "wall street journal" always gets it wrong. says he's going to talk to murdoch. and then what happens? they start making fun of people who are concerned about donald trump and his calls for violence. they laugh and they jokingly say, this is, again, after donald trump has attacked them and says he's having a meeting with rupert murdoch, they write an op-ed, an editorial on monday talking about a fascist meme, as if saying i'm going to use my military troops, and i'm going to use my national guard to attack my democratic political opponents, as if that is a meme. and then a few days later, as if they haven't already humiliated

themselves enough, donald trump keeps talking about violence against his political opponent, and they write another op-ed saying to all the billionaires reading and all of the guys driving around maseratis who doubled their fortunes while going to country clubs, calling kamala harris a socialist, they double down and say there's nothing to see here, why the democrats have been far worse. and then we see this. i wonder does this -- can we put this up again, please? i wonder "wall street journal" editorial page, does this look like a meme to you? or does this look like something that you and "the new york times" editorial page and the "washington post" editorial page in better days and every editorial page and every politician on the republican side, the democratic side, and

independents would all come out speaking against this. >> right. >> but you have preemptively capitulated to a man who you believe is going to win next tuesday when many on his own side are panicking. they're panicking and saying if we don't get more young men out, we are going to lose this race to kamala harris. but, willie, let's just, again, look at this from 30,000 feet. and this is how donald trump ends his campaign, calling for nine rifles aimed at liz cheney's face to shoot at her face. this is how donald trump is ending his campaign for

president. >> yeah, it's a staggering moment here as we make the turn into the critical final weekend, and we can already anticipate it's probably already happening, what the response will be. oh, he didn't mean that literally, joe. come on, you guys, you always blow these things out of proportion. how many times does he have to say things like this, you can't take these in a vacuum. you can look back to him saying general mark milley deserved death to a reassure china in the moments after january 6th, 2021. this kind of language he's used again and again. this kind of violent rhetoric about imprisoning opponents, shutting down investigation networks, and people who cross him in any way deserve the worst kind of punishment, and what do we know about that, maybe a flip comment to him, maybe something he was throwing off the cuff. maybe he meant she should go to war herself and stand there and

feel what it's like to go to battle. some of his supporters take these signals literally. see january 6th, so he stirs the pot, walks away, and lets hell break loose as we saw on january 6th. >> yeah, you know, and gene robinson, as we look at this headline, and we see the clip, and i'll be glad to play the clip again if anybody at the "wall street journal" editorial page wants to call it a meme, as we close the campaign. but gene robinson, you have been reporting for decades, like most great journalists, you've spent your time in the london bureau, "the washington post" london bureau chief, as our friend steve rattner, but of course murrow and others who have been through there. that throughout your career that

has provided you a unique view at how the world looks at the united states. i'm going to ask katty in a second, but i just want to ask you, your reaction to donald trump calling for liz cheney being shot in the face by nine guns, nine rifles, the closing weekend of the campaign. not only what it says about where the republican party is in 2024, but also what it must look like to our allies in london, in paris, in madrid, in warsaw, across the world. >> well, it looked completely insane to our allies across the world. and it is -- this is unprecedented, and this is -- i'm so glad that we're focusing on this, and spending some time

on it. this is not normal. this is not acceptable. this is so dangerous and i just want to -- you know, i don't usually do a personal appeal, but i hope my friend, paul, the editor of the "wall street journal" editorial pages, paul, are you watching this? are you paying attention to this? is this okay with you? because i know it's not. and don't you have a responsibility to say that to your readers? this is absolutely beyond the pale. it's a direct threat. not nine barrels pointed at her. nine barrels shooting at her. >> let's hold this thought for a quick break. when we come back, liz cheney's response this morning to trump's violent imagery, and the suggestion she should be sent into the line of fire with nine barrels shooting at her. who says this. we're back in 90 seconds.

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welcome back. we've been talking about donald trump's attack on liz cheney where he suggested she should have guns trained at her face. the former congresswoman responded on social media writing, quote, this is how dictators destroy free nations. they threaten those who speak against them with death. we cannot entrust our country

and our freedom to a petty vindictive, cruel, unstable man who wants to be a tyrant. #women will not be silenced. #vote kamala and joe. to willie's point, so many people will cast this off as you guys, he doesn't mean it. who in your life, i ask, to the people who say you guys, who in your life would you allow to speak that way, let alone someone you would vote for for president. >> what politician would be allowed -- >> joe, i love your term about these billionaires, and these newspapers and the "wall street journal" preemptively capitulating trading on america. >> and with the "wall street journal," they actually capitulated after donald trump attacked them. bloomberg.

>> they caved. >> and trump goes, oh, i'm going to talk to their boss. i'm going to talk to murdoch. and then, gene, we get that -- now, listen, i talked about "new york times" articles all the time because i read "the new york times" every day. i talk about the "wall street journal" editorial page because i read it every day. because it matters. and what you said about paul jigoe. i have been reading paul and the "wall street journal" editorial page. like for 40 years. when i was campaigning as a 29-year-old. everybody was getting faxes from the nrcc. not me. i would take the "wall street journal" editorial page, and i would carry it around the district. i would read it, i would go out, i would give speeches, and you know, you look at a lot of -- i

disagree with him on a lot of issues, taxes, carried interest taxes for billionaires, and tax cuts and all of that stuff, but i will say paul's page has not disappointed me so many times where they've spoken out against the big lie, spoken out about donald trump's call for violence. that's filler compared to where we are in the final stretch of this campaign. >> you're absolutely right. >> i do want to say to everybody that is out there, that is foaming at the mouth, and thinking, we have to capitulate to donald trump. we have to. i want you to know wednesday morning will come. wednesday morning will come. this election will be over. and whether it's next wednesday

or the following wednesday, that day will come. but your words will remain. the actions at "the washington post," leadership, will remain. what's happening at the l.a. times will remain a stain, and, gene, i want to go back because i've got great respect for him, and i always have. i look at what the "wall street journal" editorial page has done, talking about a, quote, fascist meme. i see what dan henninger writes, oh, are democrats really going to kill donald trump? democrats are worse than republicans. they know that is a lie. and now, again, let's put "drudge" up here again for people just waking up because they wouldn't believe it if we said it. and we'll play the video again for all the doubting thomases

out there, that go, oh, joe. >> he doesn't mean it. different times. >> i think it's a really bad time. i would say i think it's a really bad idea for you to fill in the blanks, oh, joe, oh, joe, so condescending, and then three months later, oh, we should have listened to you. here is trump people. oh, joe, you and your fascist meme, but, gene, you're friends with paul. >> yeah. >> i've had great respect for paul for such a long time. >> yeah. >> and to minimize this seems to me is doing a grave disservice to those readers and to all of america. >> yeah, absolutely. first of all, just quickly on the fascist meme. it's not lefty press that called donald trump a fascist, it was general milley, and general

kelly, right, two of the most decorated and bravest warriors who worked very closely with him. and that's the conclusion they've reached from having worked with him in the first trump administration. and so that's not a meme. those are facts. this is what these very distinguished military men have to say, and, again, you're absolutely right. the "wall street journal" has called out trump's nonsense about the big lie, about some of his economic policies. they have been brave until the end. and now the rubber is hitting the road, and all of a sudden, it's all okay. >> you know, there's still time for these papers to step up and do the right thing. >> there is time. >> perhaps at the peril of their own jobs because i wouldn't put behind me, and if we're looking at a dissent into fascism, which

right now, the things donald trump is saying and doing parallel exactly fascism, not hyperbole, so there is time to step up because part of it is -- part of it is destroying things, destroying the very things that perhaps are beacons of truth so be careful "washington post," and be careful l.a. times. be careful "wall street journal" because i think your very existence is the problem here. now "washington post" is losing readers, i'm coming, joe, and that may be the very much exactly what is going on here ultimately. you've got to think ahead, and step up and, joe, i'll toss back to you, we're having zany mintos beto on, the economist, of course, doing what u.s. papers should be doing, and

printing a searing, exacting condemnation of donald trump at this moment in history. >> a conservative, conservative magazine, "the economist" doing that. mika, i wanted to follow up and just follow up on what gene said. this fascist rhetoric, the charges of fascism that are being dismissed as a meme. >> oh, my. >> being dismissed by a meme despite the fact it's general mark milley, former chairman of the joint chiefs who donald trump also threatened with execution because he disagreed with donald trump on january 6th. he's one of the most highly decorated soldiers of this century.

and they dismiss general mark milley as a meme. "the washington post" decides that when you have two of the most highly decorated soldiers of the 21st century in mark milley, and also in general john kelly, that should be dismissed, so that's one side of the equation. the other side of the equation here is donald trump is talking about republicans here. he's talking about somebody that has a 95 acu rating, somebody who has been the conservative's conservative for years. more conservative in every way than donald trump. and yet, just because she's disloyal to him. just because she said there's something deeply wrong with commander in chief allowing

riots to go on, refusing to stop those riots, and in fact, going into his dining room, alone, staring and looking at some of the most violent parts of the riot, rewinding them, watching them again. rewinding them, watching them again while his vice president and secret service detail are locked up in the basement. and his secret service detail, mike pence is calling their families and saying they don't think they're going to make it out alive. while cops are getting their heads crushed inside doors, getting beaten up. getting clubbed to death, within inches of their death. having bear spray sprayed on them. this is what is so dismissed, day in and day out and day in

and day out. and that is what liz cheney objected to, which is what the "wall street journal" editorial page objected to at one time. and now because liz cheney objected to those riots and the way things were handled, she's an enemy of the state to donald trump, and on this closing weekend, he's calling for nine guns to be pointed at her face to execute her. >> coming up, the president of the naacp, derrick johnson is our guest in the fourth hour of "morning joe." we'll talk about his efforts to push back on voter suppression when "morning joe" comes right back. on when "morning joe" comes right back

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coming up, joe's conversation with rock icon, sir elton john. they discuss what inspired his broadway musical and the ongoing collision between politics and religion. that conversation is just ahead on "morning joe." e. hi. i'm damian clark. i'm here to help you understand how to get the most from medicare. if you're eligible for medicare, it's a good idea to have original medicare. it gives you coverage for doctor office visits and hospital stays. but if you want even more benefits, you can choose a medicare advantage plan like the ones offered at humana. our plans combine original medicare with extra benefits in a single, convenient plan with $0, or low monthly plan premiums. these plans could even include prescription drug coverage with $0 copays on hundreds of prescriptions. plus, there's a cap on your out-of-pocket costs. most

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display ♪ >> that was a clip from the new broadway play, tammy faye the musical. tammy fay and her first husband jim bakker host the ptl club from 1974 to 1989. the show was ground breaking at the time in that it had satellite access so they were able to reach millions of people, millions more than other preachers. i sat down with the creative forces behind the new musical, musician jake sheers of the former band scissor sisters, and the emmy, grammy, and tony winning rock 'n' roller, sir elton john. it's great to have you guys here. >> good to be here, thank you. >> very excited. welcome back to broadway. >> thank you so much. >> how excited are you about that? i'm very excited because i really love this particular musical. which we've been working on,

jason and i for 12 years, similar to the billy elliot musical i wrote. it's a political musical in a way, about someone who's outrageous and gregarious, and had a larger than life persona, at the other time, it's about what happened in the religious, evangelical community at that time. and how it changed the face of america for the worse, probably, because reagan then accepted church into state, which should never have happened, and so it's a really fascinating story about the political struggle but also this woman's courage and her incredible -- she had incredible will power, and she was incredibly sweet and kind and forgiving. i'm really excited about this. >> what's so fascinating about this for me is i grew up in the deep south. >> yeah. >> my grand mom watched the ptl club every night. we thought they were charlatans, grandma, don't give them your check, stop it.

right? looking at what you guys have done here, and going back and looking at the '85 interview where she interviews a man with aids on her show, it's hard for people to understand today how trail blazing that was. in that community. that was -- i'd say it was 40 years ahead of its time, but they're still not doing that. >> thank god. thank god for a mom and dad who will stand with a young person. you know, i think it's very important because no matter what happens to a young person in their life, they're still your boy. they're still your girl. no matter what happens in their life, and i think it's so important that we as mom and dad love through anything. i know you were sick, and that's the only reason we didn't have cow come and sit in the studio. you had your chemotherapy treatments, and you had to get home quickly so you wouldn't miss them. i want to tell you, there are a lot of christians who love you and wouldn't be afraid to put

your arm around you tell you that we love you and we care. >> they weren't doing it on secular television, and in the white house, no one was mentioning the word aids. everyone was in complete denial. someone in the midst of the community, to embrace christianity, put her arm around somebody with aids is ground breaking. >> i love when they pitch things, they'll go, this is like the sex pistols meet elo, how does that work, right? but you say this is book of mormon meets vida, which sounds wonderful. >> ultimately it's about tammy's life and faith. she's a strong female lead, a strong female figure, just like ava perron was but it also takes place in a crazy, contradictory world, and that's the world of teleevangelism, and there are so many factions within

teleevangelism, and why it became the success it did, it was jim and tammy's all inclusive brand of christianity. it wasn't fire and brimstone. it was about we welcome all denominations, all faiths, and let's make christianity fun and joyful, as opposed to, if you do not behave and send your money, you will be going to hell. it was very very appealing, and welcoming. >> also, they had a satellite, so they could reach millions more homes than the other televangelists could possibly ever reach. they became a target of jealous poem, and they wanted to break them, and they did. and it's like a spy thing really. it's incredible what they did, and what they planned, and what they plotted, and how jim didn't survive it, but in the end, tammy did, and four days before she died, she was on larry king. she was an amazing woman, and i want people to go out of the theater thinking, we got her

wrong. we got her wrong. i want them to feel joyous about her life, and you always want people to be uplifted when they see somebody on stage, whether it's a drama or a musical or whatever, and so the performances by our lead actors and actresses are quite electrifying and, people will go home thinking, wow, we misread her. i think she was an inspirational figure. >> and you also grew up in a family where your mom was -- >> yeah, my mom was baptist, and as a small child, i think i was a precocious shield and i was aware of tammy faye, and the scandal blew up when i was 8 years old, and i was plugged into it, and fascinated by this woman. recently, i found drawings that i was doing of her when i was, you know, a kid. >> really? >> yeah, i was fascinated by the whole thing and all the characters who populated this world. it's just so exciting.

if you would have told me when i was 12, that i would be writing a musical with elton and david about tammy faye bakker, i don't know, it's still, i have to pinch myself. >> so there has to be a special resonance to this as well. i read about when you came out to your parents at 15, and the person who suggested you did that said, well, that's the worst advice i ever gave in my life. it didn't necessarily go well, right? >> not at first. >> but the resonance, though, for tammy faye bakker in her '85 interview saying to this man who was coming out, you know, it's great that your parents are accepting you. that's what being a christian is about. again, that's pretty radical. pretty revolutionary. >> it is. and my mom is somebody who i've always felt like is a true christian, and i've always sort of linked my mother to tammy faye, a special thing for me about this musical, in certain

ways, i feel like it's about frida who you guys know. i feel a deep connection with her. i feel a deep connection with her son jay bakker, who's been around, and i love. he's an amazing man, and he has been through so much, and to see tammy, sometimes he'll text me a picture of his mom six months before she passed away, sitting in an apple bee's enjoying an ice cream sundae. seeing her filtered through his eyes has been very moving. >> you talked about politics of the 1980s, let's talk about politics today. this is relevant to what's happening in our life today, is it not? >> extremely relevant. >> can you explain how, again, it's uplifting but at the same time, it shines a light on unfortunately some trends, not just politically but also in churches? >> this is a story about coming together, loving each other. it's the opposite of the hatred

that's being spilled for several years now by several politicians. negativity, we're surrounded by negativity. this is about coming together, forgiveness and love. i believe honestly there's more of that in the world than there is from the other stuff. we always hear about the negative horrible stuff because it causes headlines, the dark horses, the sleepers are the people that actually are really good, and i believe there's more good than evil, and there's a lot of evil around. >> it is coming out election week, the lens that it's seen through is going to sort of go one way or the other, and the show, the ideas in it, you know, it really is about those seeds that were sown in the '80s and jerry falwell, the seeds that are sown then have a direct link. >> whatever happens in the election, it's going to be

contested. there's going to be great controversy for weeks and weeks and weeks, it's going to go on. i don't think this will be, oh, they won, and that's it. it's going to be a crazy time as it was the last time, so, this is -- we're at the zeitgeist with this musical. i encourage people to come and see a great story about how america was changed for the worst by reagan's stupid decision to put church and state together. >> part of joe's conversation with sir elton john. still ahead on "morning joe," breaking news on the economy, the labor department is out with its final jobs report before the election. we'll break down the new numbers with cnbc's andrew ross sorkin. but first, the story of a woman in georgia who say doctors delayed the life saving health care she desperately needed for a violent miscarriage because they were worried about the state's abortion ban.

avery davis bell is my guest next on "morning joe." ."

welcome back, 34-year-old mother, avery davis bell is speaking out this morning about what she says was a dangerous delay in care. by doctors in georgia when she had a miscarriage last month. bell was losing massive amounts of blood, and her baby was not going to survive.

but she says doctors were nervous about beginning the procedures to abort and it could have cost her life. bell shared her story with "usa today" which reported, quote, bell said doctors grappled with when they could start the process of the procedure. it would take time for her cervix to dilate, but it was unclear if beginning the dilation would be considered advancing the abortion before the necessary time was up. in a statement to "usa today," listen carefully, emory health care said emory uses consensus from clinical experts, medical literature, and legal guidance to support our providers as they make individualized treatment recommendations in compliance with georgia's abortion laws. well, the state of georgia is

one of the strictest, has the strictest bans, of course, due to donald trump. after six weeks there are exceptions to save the life of the mother in cases of rape and incest, and for medically futile pregnancies, and amidst all of that, avery davis bell was caught in the middle, and she joins us now. avery, thank you so much for coming on the show this morning, in this really important time. i know this just happened to you last month, and i'm so sorry. i'm wondering if you could explain why you are speaking out about your harrowing reproductive emergency. and what was it that you went to the emergency room for helpfor? >> yes. so two weeks ago i was 18 weeks pregnant with my very wanted second baby. and i had a complication and had been in and out of the hospital. that night i started bleeding

incredibly heavily again, which i knew was a return to the hospital. and i went back. at that time we found not only that i was bleeding heavily, but that my water had broken much too early. the doctors were very clear that my fetus could not survive this and i was in potential danger of losing a lot of blood. at this point, this was a miscarriage. my doctors were fantastic. they assured me they were going to save my life, and they also made it clear that they had to make sure to operate within the law, within georgia's abortion ban. so there might be a waiting period, and they couldn't move up my operation until it was clear that my life was in danger. this is because of the law that was put into place in the state because of donald trump's supreme court. so what this means was my doctors had to balance what was best for me in the moment with

when it classified as being legal. this is a place no doctor should have to be put in, and this is a situation i don't want any other person to ever have to go through. that's why i'm speaking out and speaking out so soon. i'm still physically recovering, and i'm, of course, still emotionally recovering. i went into the hospital the same day i early voted, which was the only time i left bedrest between hospitalizations. i have to speak out now because we are in the middle of a decision point where we can go one direction with kamala harris and have our rights are restored and protected and elevated. or we can go in another direction, and bans like this can become more common across the country and more mothers and children will be living as if we were 200 years ago when many of us wouldn't have survive childbirth and many would have

died. >> you're two weeks out from this unbelievably traumatic and painful experience and an experience that probably you're still recovering from. i want to zool in of something you said. they had to wait until it was clear your life was in danger. how much were you bleeding, avery? i believe you said your water broke, but amniotic fluid also. please describe the situation the doctors were looking at having to determine whether you were sick enough, dying enough, bleeding enough. >> exactly. what i want to say is legal laws, they're rules, they're

categorical. they have to be. biology is not categorical. i'm a scientist. i know this from my pregnancy. a passed a dinner plate sized clot of blood at home, so a mass mass -- massive amount of blood. when your water breaks early, first of all, your fetus can't survive and secondly you're at very high risk of infection. i'm bleeding heavily. the doctors are clear this will progress to be life-threatening. when exactly i am dying, that is not as easy a call to make. and they shouldn't have to make it. they knew i would get there, so they should have been able to move as soon as they could. they have to pay attention to

these laws, because they have to save the woman who comes in the next day and not get shut down. so i had to wait overnight soaking pads and getting my labs checked. the doctors said if my hemoglobin drops very low, they can move on with the surgery. that's what happened. my hemoglobin dropped to the point where i was automatically qualified for surgery. it would have been up to a day and a half or even two days depending how long it took to prepare my cervix to be able to pass my fetus. again, this was 18 weeks. a loss is bad at any point, but at this point in two weeks it would have been a stillbirth.

i was heavily pregnant and this is a pretty traumatic thing for a body to have to go through. doctors shouldn't have been put in this decision. who knows if i were in idaho or texas or somewhere with even worse laws than georgia, i could have died waiting on health care. >> you're bleeding massive amounts of blood and just at risk of infection striking your body. you would think they would get you right into the o.r. so you waited days? >> yeah. i waited a day. they told me very carefully what to tell them about, anything that would have increased my threshold so they could start earlier. i think the law is scary to them, because again, they have to stay open to take care of other patients. the cost of that is that doctors doing their job and people like me with a dying fetus inside.

this was hard because my fetus was under stress and he was dying, and i was in danger of the same thing. but yet we put me and these doctors through these enormous hoops. these are doctors who trained not only in medical school and residency but also a fellowship, specialized training. she probably had a decade of training or more and practiced several years to be able to make these hard decisions. what is the safest way to do the surgery? when should we start the surgery? that's hard enough to take ten years or more to learn how to do. yet because of donald trump's supreme court and the law enacted in georgia we're saying the legislators and state house should have something to say about making this decision. that doesn't make any sense.

it made the worst day of my life, the loss of my baby, it made it even worse. this is the united states of america. why are we allowing this? we had an opportunity to disallow this again by voting up and down the ballot for people who will protect reproductive rights on tuesday. >> avery, i appreciate not only that you are able to articulate the position you were put in and the position doctors around you were put in, who were trained to save lives. this is a baby you very much wanted, correct? >> very much wanted. this was my child's baby brother. he hugged my belly every day since i told him i was pregnant, which wasn't early. we waited until 12 weeks and had good scans and i was really showing. he would hug mama, hug baby.

we are all devastated. my 6'2", husband, my tiny child, we've cried together because we won't get to meet our expected baby. >> avery, i'm so sorry about what you went through. i am so, so moved that you would come on this morning just weeks after something like this would happen. it's unthinkable. i thank you for sharing your story in hopes that this doesn't happen to more women. thank you. >> thank you for your time. up next, vice president kamala harris reacted yesterday to donald trump's comments about protecting women, whether they like it or not. we'll bring you the latest from the campaign trail. and the markets are reacting to october's job numbers

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women are already suffering the trump's america that came out of his first presidency. >> right. this is the thing he accomplished. >> yeah. >> this is the thing he bragged about. >> a threat that he said he would do, he thought women should be punished. let me tell you, they're being punished in the most dreadful, horrific ways. there are women going through unbelievable medical traumas who cannot get the life-saving health care they need, and they're dying or having to prove they're dying enough to get care or they're being forced to bring unviable pregnancies to term to have a baby that will suffer and die in their arms and then live

with that. one woman i spoke to became suicidal after this experience that was forced on her to carry an unviable pregnancy for over three months and then to have to give birth and watch her son die. this is because the medical care is available, but trump's abortion bans keeps the hospitals from providing it. that's sick. that's trump's america for women. there are women losing their lives. there are a lot of men who love their wives, their girlfriends, their sisters, their moms. they wouldn't want to see this pain on anybody, let alone someone they love. there's a growing number of men. one story involved a husband who was weeping because the thought of his wife having a miscarriage was beyond brutal, but the thought of losing his wife when

the health care was right there was causing him to weep. men get it. this is an issue that impacts women and men, and this is an issue we can make a choice on by voting in this lek. some team are just tuning in. that's why i'm bringing these stories to the forefront. it's hard to comprehend a president using the military against his enemies. i can understand how that seems so farfetched, right? but seeing a woman bleeding out in an e.r. waiting room, seeing h husband weeping and playing for her life. that's real. that's tangible. and that has happened because of donald trump. to me, that is all you need to sort of understand the direction we're heading in. this is not a direction we want to continue. >> that's just some of mika's

remarkable appearance yesterday on "late night with seth meyers." as mika says all the time, take donald trump at his word. we were told before the last election that roe v. wade was not going to be overturned. donald trump even suggested as much. it was. it was. he got elected, and it was overturned. and now, yeah, this is about life. this is about women's lives. mika, you just brought to us the terrible story, the tragic story out of georgia, but that's happening across america. this is a message that doesn't resonate with liberals or independents or conservatives. this resonates with all americans. and just as donald trump is promising, just as donald trump

is promising and bragging about being the terminator of women having the choice to have health care that can save liar lives and keep doctors staring at somebody bleeding out. they are also promising to take health care away from tens of millions of americans, like saying they're also going to gut and do away with the affordable care act. might be johnson, the speaker of the house, was just talking about that. vance was talking about it. donald trump still hates john mccain because he saved the affordable care act for millions and millions of americans. this is about access to health care not just for women, though that is so important. we've seen such dramatic

episodes, such tragedies that break the heart of every one of these whip. this also expands to health care being taken away from tens of millions of american men and women. >> follow the pattern and vote. women who are suffering these unbelievably heartbreaking, dreadful experiences, they are the beginning of the pattern. this is the reality right now. avery davis bell came on "morning joe" ten minutes ago. two weeks ago she went through this. she is still recovering. she is still getting over the trauma of the worst day of her life, losing a baby at five months pregnant, a baby she wanted so much, that her family was so excited for. and somehow donald trump found a way with his abortion bans to make the worst day of her life even more harrowing and

frightening and painful and traumatic. and that is to have good doctors standing around here with the available health care to save her life, having to hold off an entire 24 hours as she could go septic, as she could get an infection, as she is bleeding violently. and they can't do anything because they have to talk about whether this is breaking abortion laws, the six-week ban in georgia. i think these stories are a good example of what donald trump has already done. it's real, it's tangible, you can hear it, you can see it. and chances are it will happen to someone you know in your life if this is the direction we choose. >> and he promised to do it in 2016. he did it.

he took away the right for trs to save women's lives. nike mistake, in states across america donald trump took away a doctor's right to save women's lives when they are in distress. it is barbaric, and it is the antithesis of a party that respects and values life. that is what he has promised. and this morning he is promising more fascist activity. we've shown it throughout the morning. let's put the drudge report up. obviously a deserve website that talks about trump calling for cheney's execution.

talking about nine rifles aimed at her face and shooting at her face. let's listen to donald trump's own words. >> she's a radical warhawk. let's put her with a rifle standing there with nine barrels shooting at her, okay? let's see how she feels about it, you know, when the guns are trained on her face. they're all warhawks when they're sitting in a nice building in washington saying, oh gee, let's send 10,000 troops right into the mouth of the enemy. but she's a stupid person. >> so let's put nine barrels of guns shooting at liz cheney's face. stephanie ruhle, this is donald trump in the closing weekend of the 2024 campaign that a lot of

people that you know and i know are saying, oh, six of one, half dozen of the other. donald trump, he won't do what he says he will do, when, in fact, that's exactly what donald trump does. he tried to arrest hillary clinton twice, once in 2017 when his attorney general jeff sessions said no, there's nothing there, and again in 2018 when attorney general barr said, no, there's nothing there. in 2020 two weeks before the election he tried to arrest joe biden and joe biden's family, and barr once again said no. those barriers are gone if donald trump is elected again. here we see just weeks after him talking about putting the military and the national guard after democrats, now he's talking about a faring squad for

a republican who is long ranked as one of the most conservative republicans in washington, d.c. where are we on the final weekend before this historic election. >> where are we, joe? potentially classic republicans are banding together saying we have to be done with him for good and figuring out their next step pmd you know this. this is completely self-inflicted. it was less than six months ago all sort of people that you talked to, that i talked to were so excited about the idea of nikki haley. even after nikki haley endorsed him, he's basically thrown her aside. look at this last week. all these people we know keep saying look at the betting markets, he's killing it. he's got an opportunity to shut it down, even put on a show that he's moving to the center.

he has spent the last two weeks, especially the last week going further and furthermore extreme to the right for what? to reveal himself. to make it more and more difficult for rational people. think about all of these women. i myself have had a miscarriage. when i did, never did i possibly think that a d & c would be considered abortion care. you have devout catholics saying, i'm sorry, what are you considering this? just rational, apolitical women saying i need to go vote to protect myself and my daughter. you know what other groups are doing that? their husbands, their brothers, their fathers. >> i want to say this just for people looking at the so-called betting market. i want you to explain this,

because the "wall street journal" broke it down. actually if you look at the stock market and the s&p, the s&p is betting on a harris win for historic reasons. whereas these crypto markets that only foreigners can invest in, here is the anti-foreigner party, the america for only americans party going look at what the foreigners are saying, look at what the crypto foreigners are saying. they're saying donald trump is going to win. you just have to laugh. the stock market's surprising bet on who's going to win the presidency shows that would have a party in power when the s&p 500 is exploding, that means the market is betting on things remaining the same, on no disruptions. >> the "wall street journal"

said yesterday whomever is the next president is going to walk into the oval office and preside over a very strong economy. the biggest betting market is this one. you know the majority owner of polymarket? peter thiel, the man who brought you jd vance. you know how you manipulate polymarket? it takes about the price of a uses car to push that market and make it look like donald trump's winning. all these people saying don't trust the polls, if you're worried about the polls having little representation of what's actually happening, do me a favor and go to the betting markets. united states investors, you cannot even play in polymarket if you're a u.s. investor. these are foreigners who we do not even know and we know from the last two elections and currently, you have foreign

adversaries trying to interfere in the election. please do not be fooled by this nonsense and this noise. >> we also have with us mara gay, donny deutsch and job than lemire at the table, of course. mara, go. >> i spent the past week in georgia, where not only democrats but republicans, like the former lieutenant governor geoff duncan, independents, people who once considered themselves apolitical women are working their hearts out right now, and the reason is because in 2020 joe biden won there by 11,000 votes. i just want americans to remember that right now, because these betting markets, even just the polls, so much of this is something that donald trump and

his allies are using to suggest that the american people are help let, that their victory is inevitable and that the views they believe in are something that the majority of americans want. and that is all designed to keep people home to say it doesn't matter, your vote doesn't matter. your vote matters. >> your vote is private. >> and not only is it a time to go vote, there are still doors to be knocked, there are still calls to be made. that's not about the democratic party. that's about your own health care. >> that's about thinking this could be me in a delivery room, in an operating room unable to get health care. it could be your neighbor, it could be your daughter.

>> could be a woman of any age. you don't have to be in a reproductive situation to have one of these emergencies. go ahead, joe. >> let's clear something else up right now, and it's important. i was always fascinated and somewhat maddened to even hear on msnbc daytime news people going, well, of course it's the best economy ever when he was in office, because he would just say it every day. the truth is he ranked below jimmy carter in gdp growth. he was number seven in post car presidents. the lie just kept spinning out and they started repeating the lie that jimmy carter had a

better gdp, better economy, better growth than donald trump. they've been doing now on this election for so long that data doesn't matter. like, polymarket is just a betting version of epoch times, a website controlled by a chinese religious cult, and people are suckered into believing it when the data is showing a couple of things right now, jonathan lemire. it is a tie going into the weekend. but the harris campaign feeling good for a couple of reasons. you look in pennsylvania. it's a tie. it's close. but what's happening? oh, i'm shocked, women are going out in huge numbers. so you've got the trump pros freaking out on x going, dude, you got to get out and vote or you're going to have to listen to kamala cackle for the next four years.

like, they're freaking out. that's number one. number two, i think it was politico that had a story about this silver revolution of sorts that seniors in the blue states are going out and voting and they're democratic seniors. trump is lagging behind early voting with seniors in pennsylvania and wisconsin and michigan. this is data. what does it suggest? that harris is going to win? no. but it doesn't suggest trump's going to win. in fact, they're very cautious if they're his campaign because they went through 2016. i know you've talked to them. i've talked to them. what they're saying is this for about seven days now. it's going to be a really close race, but would rather be us than him right now.

you look at the data that's coming in except for nevada. you look for the data that's coming in on early voting. you look at other things. you look at the ground game. jen o'malley's ground game versus elon musk's ground game. he's good at building rockets. i'm not so sure he's good at getting out the vote. we'll see. but this race is tied, and yet the trump people have been convincing a lot of people that they had this in the bag three months ago. >> the trump people were rattled when harris took over the top of the ticket in july. but you're right. outside of august they have been consistently on message saying we're going to win, we're going to win big. that's changed a little bit in this last week, at least privately.

a couple weeks ago we followed the trends . the movement was slight, but it was in trump's direction. that has now changed. there is a sense of cautious optimism from the harris team, particularly on those three blue wall states. they would rather be them than the trump team. also there's tells on the trump side. we talked about yet trump's truth social post. and a trump campaign memo that a top pollster put out, usually they have some data to back it up saying, we're doing well, we're ahead. this one, there was no data. it includes a lot of garbage polls in there, and it was widely mocked online that this was trying to create some false momentum into this final weekend

when really they're slipping. we're hearing donald trump's closing argument, let's point guns at liz cheney. >> this is donald trump's jam. fake it until you make it. it's how he has built his career since the '80s. >> except he means it. >> yes, because that's how he's always done it. >> i want to go back to women. i'm a dad of girls. i think women are going to save us. i think women have a primal protective instinct. i think they know in their gut and there's so many anecdotal tales of people canvassing from door to door. women, nobody's going to know how you vote. if your husband is voting one way, you can vote another way. i've always said women are the stronger sex. step up. >> vice president kamala harris hosted a packed rally in las

vegas yesterday where she was joined on stage by jennifer lopez. lopez, whose parents were born in puerto rico, called out trump and his supporters for vilifying the latino community, focusing on the racist remarks made toward latinos and puerto ricans by comedian tony hinchcliffe at trump's madison square garden rally. a six-figure ad campaign has been launched focusing on puerto rican voters in wisconsin, michigan and pennsylvania. joining us now, senior advisor for that organization, james carville. he's also cohost of the politics war room podcast. also with us, the group's cofounder bradley baychuck.

>> you probably heard our conversation talking about the false sticking their chest out on the trump campaign. we've been talking about how we think it's a tie. i'm curious, how are you looking at this race with about five days to go? >> i would say take harris over 270 electoral votes. let these fools in those crypto markets drive the betting line into a favorable place and then take advantage of it. that's what i would do. i think she's going to win. >> why? >> got more money, got more energy, has a more united party, has better surrogates. he's stone-ass nuts. when you start talking about lining up a political opponent with nine people in a firing squad and then you have the "washington post" and the "los angeles times" saying, oh, i don't want to get involved in this, this is dirty politics.

it's unbelievable. we've been around the world once or twice and we've never seen anything like this. >> you know, james, you and i, we were on opposite sides a lot of our political career. we certainly in the '90s and 2000s, i remember several times bill clinton you could impeach him on a tuesday and wednesday he'd be talking about what bill we needed to passion the next day. i had one law partner who saw bill clinton sign something after we had done long-term care and said, dear joe, thanks for everything. my partner said, thanks for everything? you impeached him! but that was a different time when democrats and republicans fought like held, but they worked together for the better

meant of america. on our screen, i'm showing you donald trump. this isn't each a democratic republican battle. this is donald trump talking about executing one of the most conservative republicans in congress over the past decade. >> i can't wait to watch the cameras chase lindsey graham around the mall and see how fast he's going to run to get away from them. >> yeah. i think there are going to be a lot of people that, again, will say, oh, i didn't hear it, he didn't say it. oh, well, he didn't mean it. bradley, let's turn to what we lead in with . that's your group's push to get the message out to puerto rican voters in the blue wall states about what donald trump and those at madison square garden

thought and think of puerto ricans. >> i think this goes to what you were talking about earlier. some of these voters are numb to these crazy things that trump says. he made good on the threat of overturning roe v. wade. when they talk about garbage, about liz cheney, about taking away health care, these are all issues. when they talk about whether women like it or not, they're straight from the horse's mouth. there are still 3 or 4% of those in the united states that are reachable. i think this is what it comes down to. let them see trump in his own words. let them see the threat. this would not be on the bingo card of a successful winning campaign. >> bradley, so many campaigns every four years are settled

because of the economy. obviously as we've been discussing this morning, there are a lot of issues on voters' minds, but for many it's going to be those pocketbook items that matter most. we've seen the biden administration struggle to get credit for the job it's done clearing the economy. for those voters who still haven't made up their minds and are thinking about their wallet? >> this economy has been roaring. i think people will start to feel that. number two, when you talk about abortion, democracy and freedom for a lot of these voters, you talk about child care, you talk about paid family leave, i don't think we should all be surprised that women are showing up in droes to vote for harris. they're going to save democracy. child care, paid family leave,

these are economic issues and women are the dominant force in our politics right now and we shouldn't forget it. this is an election where it's bros versus roe. >> james, i'm curious. i know you think she's going to win, but in these final days what would you like to see her doing? >> i mean, she's got to go to the places that she's gone and she has to draw a very sharp distinction, which i think is going to be easy to do, because the events at madison square garden followed up by assassinaing a firing squad for my political opponents, it's some potent stuff. he's going to find out you just agitated an entire hornet's nest of american women. they're coming out. if you look at these early vote numbers, the women in this country are just tired of being

threated like they've been treated by trump and alito and the supreme court. >> democratic strategist james carville and and bradley baychuck, thank you both very much for being on this morning. coming up, kamala harris says trump's latest talk about protecting women is just another sign how he devalues women. yamiche alcindor with the latest interview. plus we'll get the jobs report released just moments ago and have analysis after the break. s have analysis after the break.

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san francisco's leadership is failing us. that's why mark farrell is endorsing prop d. because we need to tackle our drug and homelessness crisis just like mark did as our interim mayor. mark farrell endorsing prop d, to bring the changes we need for the city we love.

san francisco's leadership is failing us. that's why mark farrell is endorsing prop d. because we need to tackle our drug and homelessness crisis just like mark did as our interim mayor. mark farrell endorsing prop d, to bring the changes we need for the city we love. and my people told me about four weeks ago, i would say, no, i want to protect the people, i

want to protect the women. sir, please don't say that. why? they said, we think -- we think it's very inappropriate for you to say. i said, why? i'm president. i want to protect the women of our country. they said, sir, i just think it's inappropriate for you to say. i pay these guys a lot of money. can you believe it? they say, well, i'm going to do it whether the women like it or not. i'm going to protect them. i'm going to protect them from migrants and missile es and other things. >> that was donald trump at his rally in wisconsin on thursday saying he will protect the women of this country whenever they like it or not. nbc news spoke with vice president kamala harris object those specific comments made by

the former president. and yamiche alcindor conducted that interview and joins ut for more on that. >> i learned that the vice president is sizing on those comments by former president trump and really underscoring in her mind that this is more that he does not respect women, does not respect women's ability to make choices for themselves. this connects to the overall theme of her campaign, which is americans, women included, should have freedom to do whatever they want with their lives. >> former president trump has said that he would be a protector of women whether they like it or not. what do you make of that? >> i'm speak on behalf of myself but also the americans that i speak with every day regardless

of our generallier. women should be respected for their agency to make decisions for themselves about what is in their best interest and not have their government and certainly not donald trump telling them what to do. his latest comment is just the most recent in a series of examples that we have seen from him in his words and deed about how he devalues the ability of women to have the choice and the freedom to make decisions about their own body. >> now, of course, you played donald trump talking about migration and the threats from foreign countries. the bottom line was he would do this whether women like it or not. donald trump doesn't really think that women have the ability and the smarts to protect themselves.

of course she's connecting that in some conversations with the idea that she would be someone who would protect women's freedoms but also in particular would check what women want to do with their body. i think overall this is really connecting with the thesis of this campaign, which is that donald trump is a threat to america and a threat to women. i expect to her her say that more and more. >> yamiche alcindor, thank you very much. this point about these abortion bans and this health care being denied to women, this is an issue that women, men, and it also affects, deeply traumatized and impacts the doctors involved, doctors who want to give life-saving care are being put in a horrendous situation as well because of donald trump's

strict abortion bans. nba superstar lebron james is endorsing vice president kamala harris for president. the future hall of famer campaigns for barack obama and hillary clinton in previous election cycles. james also posted this video on social media. >> all right. heck yeah. we carved watermelons together. it was awesome. ♪♪ >> no, no, i'm not a racist. >> they're taking black jobs now. the whole country is going to be like detroit. a lot of it's about the genes, isn't it? don't you believe? they're poisoning the blood of our country. troublemaker. he's a troublemaker. look. i love the old days. you know what they used to do to guys like that in a place like

this? they'd be carried out on a stretcher, folks. i'd like to punch him in the face, i'll tell you. if you had one really violent day. one rough hour, and i mean real rough. the word will get out and it would end immediately. but we're going to indemnify police officers and law enforcement from being destroyed by the radical left. you're changing history. you're changing culture. >> of course i hate these people. let's all hate these people, because maybe hate is what we need. >> joining us the president and ceo of the naacp derrick johnson. thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. i want to ask you about lebron stepping forward, but also your organization has new polling showing efforts by the harris campaign to reach black men is working. it shows the likelihood for black men under 50 to vote for

harris has jumped by 8% since august. support for donald trump from the same group has decreased by 6%. when looking at all black men, harris's influence has increased by 4% while trumps has dropped to just 2%. what do you make of these numbers? what do you think is behind them? >> typically people begin to pay attention to the election cycle after labor day. polling is a snapshot in time. we're seeing the trend that we expected. that's why you see people like lebron james and other celebrities stepping unbecause as they are informed about project 2025, they know this is not normal. there are no options. the only option here is democracy or something less. so i expect over the weekend we're going to have even more

celebrities step up and use their platforms to begin to engage their fan base to say, hey, there are no options here. we need to vote the right way. >> what is the best closing message to black men in the waning days of this company, and who should be giving that message? who are the best surrogates to send that message. >> based of our research, neighbors talking to voters. you need to get those individuals to the polls. organizing is the most effective way. then secondly, celebrity endorsers. people who follow on social media. we are talking about many of those individuals are receiving their information on a social media platform where you have disand misinformation.

we are fighting hard to counter that so people have the right information so the choices they make at the polling place is in the right direction. >> talk to us about voter turnout efforts, actually getting people to the polls. that is something that for both campaigns really looking at right now, this has been deemed a turnout election. it's not so much about the other side as it is about getting your supporters out. what is your organization doing to help out? >> weave invested in over $20 million in knocking on doors to push infrequent voters out. our strategy is we have a whole list of individuals who are registered to vote, and we are talking directly to them. we are touching 14.1 million voters with texts and e-mails and having neighbors who are frequent voters to call and

caulk -- talk to them. we want an america that looks like 2030 and not a 1930s apartheid system. >> thank you very much. still ahead, we're going to dive into the latest jobs report. andrew ross sorkin joins us in studio to break down the numbers along with stephanie ruhle. we'll be right back. le we'll be right back.

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it's always great to talk to andrew ross sorkin, a new yorker. we have a group of new yorkers around the table. i'm going to throw a couple things out there. andrew, andrew, you go where you want to go. first of all, i'm just looking at "the new york times," coverage of, of course, aaron judge dropping the ball. the easiest line drive.

goes on and talks about this fifth inning. this will be remembered -- this fifth inning will be remembered by yankees fans like the 1986 bobble will be remembered. there's that. there's also this. we always talk about how great america is, i always talk about the japan that could say no, in the late '80s, they basically said screw you to america because they had the chips. and then a company that an i'm immigrant helped found, and intel comes along, and goes, actually, japan, you're actually not in that position. and intel was a great american success story. man, they helped with the revival of america's economy and they helped -- their chips helped fuel this extraordinary i.t. revolution. and yet i just -- i don't understand how this happened to such a great company. >> $16 billion.

>> $16 billion loss. $16.6. >> for those who love american success stories, that hurts. finally, we have the october jobs report this morning that the u.s. economy added 12,000 jobs in october. a lot less than economists expected, but, again, bad news is good news, good news is bad news on wall street, it seems like the market is doing just fine right now in premarket trading because the feeling is, hey, inflation is not coming back. we're getting our soft landing, this is a little lower than we expected. but, man, things are looking good. interest rates are going to keep coming down. >> first, the yankees are paid too much money to drop balls the way they did and miss balls the way they did. can we just say that straight up? >> that's fair. >> i just want to get that off my chest. paid too much money to miss this much, okay, as a new york yankees fan. on the jobs numbers, totally

disappointing, i'm not going to sugar coat that. but i also think you throw the boeing strike into the situation and the hurricane and we knew the numbers were going to be messy. the numbers have been revised backwards and forwards. we had a massive head fake in july. by the way, in july we thought that the world was ending, the stock market was tanking. actually, trump was using that against, by the way, biden back then, because those numbers did not look good. so i think we still have to figure out where we really are in terms of with the jobs. i know you want to jump in -- >> it's not a good jobs report. unemployment is still low. the thing that the average consumer really cares about -- >> wangs. >> -- is wages, but also inflation. yesterday the fed got to learn sort of their favorite measure that they like to use to see where inflation is. it's cooling. and getting this not great, very clearly not great jobs report, andrew said it, not one but two hurricanes that this accounts

for, we're really likely going to get that next rate cut from the fed. >> and, by the way, that's why the stock market is up today. >> that matters to people. >> this is a raging economy. andrew, you know better than anybody, no matter how you grade this economy, going into the election, it's a ten, period. >> also with us is lexington columnist james bennett, his recent piece is called "this campaign is also demonstrating america's democratic vitality". talk to me. give me hope. >> i wanted to take the opportunity to write a positive column while i still can. i do think there are lots of things to feel good about in the way our democracy is performing now. i'm old enough to remember the '90s when we were worried about voter apathy and fewer than half of eligible voters were turning out and we were forming commissions to study the problem and come up with solutions.

in 2020, two-thirds of eligible voters turned out, which was the highest proportion since 1900. we're blowing the doors off early voting this year. a lot of that is negative polarization, but there's a lot of enthusiasm for the candidates within both parties, and gal up yesterday reported more enthusiasm on the democratic side. >> will your premise be viable if trump wins? >> i think so, actually. in the sense that -- again, i don't minimize the stakes of this election and i share the tremendous anxiety, and part of what i was trying to remind people, how wonderful all of this stuff is and kind of how much is potentially at risk, all the freedoms we have to exercise. but look, i think it's terrible that people are having to struggle to restore basic constitutional freedom in this country. but this moment to restore reproductive rights is, like, the greatest grassroots movement

certainly we've seen this century. and it's a reminder when people feel like their rights are at stake, they still know how to put democracy to use to fight for them. and they've won in every state where they've had the opportunity so far. six for six, including conservative states. >> one problem with your premise, i appreciate it very much, and we need it. it's just that these movements are coming out of a lot of unnecessary pain and loss. and i am following now another story, propublica is breaking this, so just from propublica, a mother a year ago in october was screaming in a texas e.r. for doctors to do something for her 18-year-old teen daughter who is pregnant. they diagnosed her with strep throat. she went to another hospital, so she goes to a second hospital, and she's screened positive for sepsis, a life-threatening and very fast-moving condition, reaction to an infection. she's pregnant. doctors said her 6-month fetus had a heartbeat, so she should

go home. she went to a third hospital and an ob insisted on two ultrasounds to confirm fetal demise. by that point, her organs started breaking down and she died. so, stephanie, i'll let you take it from here. because this movement that is happening is a result of donald trump's assault on american women that he claims to be the protector of, whether we like it or not. i will just say, we don't like it. >> i'm with you, but i go back to james' point, the thing that inspires and excites me is that you're not seeing the american people take this laying down. when they hear stories like that, when they know people like that, they're not cowering in the darkness and saying this is the new path. >> men aren't cowering. i'm really disappointed by some examples. >> mika, we can't just look --

we can't look at all men just as this bro universe. yes, if you look at the crypto bros, who is trading djt, but that's a small portion of the male population. there's great men across the board, and even at this table. >> the women are going to rock. >> absolutely. but i go back to james' point, yes, horrible things are happening and people aren't taking it sitting down. they're standing up, they're starting activist groups and running for office. >> i think they're hearing those stories and responding to them. i was in kalamazoo last saturday to hear michelle obama's speech, which it was a speech unlike any i've ever heard a politician give. an incredibly powerful kind of -- the struggle you were just describing, but she put it in a broader frame and directed it to men as much as women. she was relating to women but trying to reach men.

and i think that, combined with kamala harris' candidacy -- you know, we talk a lot, again, about all the abnormal stuff that donald trump has made normal in our politics. >> right, normalization. >> whether kamala harris wins or not, i think one of the really profound things she's achieved, she's normalized something really awesome, which is the idea that a woman has an absolute -- and obviously hillary clinton blazed the path, others, many people have done this before, but it's an utterly normal thing now. and i think, again, in a deep way, i think, it is connected to the movement for reproductive freedom. and that gives me hope. >> a woman winning is not normal in the united states, as it is in other countries. andrew ross sorkin, i'll give you the final word. >> let's hope that democracy is working. we will see whether it works, not just at the voting booth next week, but also in the courts and everything that comes in the aftermath. >> that's right.

>> that's going to be a big question. >> thank you all very much. that does it for us this morning. ana cabrera and jose diaz-balart pick up the coverage right now. right now on msnbc, we have special coverage with just four days remaining in the 2024 race. the presidential contenders blitzing the battlegrounds with donald trump escalating inflammatory rhetoric against vp harris and her allies. trump wielding violent war imagery against liz cheney, talking about guns trained on her face. cheney responding this morning, likening those to a death threat. >> the vice president's new interview with nbc news, and later, could a vaccine skeptic control america's health care? the role trump is suggesting for rfk jr. ♪♪