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hi, everyone. 4:00 in new york. news breaking in the last hour. violent rhetoric directed at former republican congresswoman liz cheney by donald trump is now being investigated by arizona law enforcement as a possible death threat. here's how vice president kamala harris responded to donald trump's remark that liz cheney should face, quote, rifles in her face. >> he has increased his violent rhetoric, donald trump has, about political opponents. and in great detail, in great detail, suggested rifles should be trained on former representative liz cheney. this must be disqualifying. anyone who wants to be president of the united states who uses that kind of violent rhetoric is

clearly disqualified and unqualified to be president. representative cheney is a true patriot who has shown extraordinary courage in putting country above party. i have also thought a lot about what this means in terms of our standing in the world. as vice president, i have represented the united states of america around the world, and what i know is that when we walk in those rooms representing the united states of america, we have the earned and self-appointed authority to then talk about the importance of democracy, the importance of rule of law, and as a result, people around the world who are fighting for freedom and opportunity hold us up as a model. america deserves better than what donald trump is offering. >> all of this bringing us back, of course, to the choice facing

we the people, the voters in four days. we have heard now from the generals who served under donald trump. men like general jim mattis, general mark milley, general john kelly. we have heard from former white house officials, aides like olivia troye, miles taylor, sarah matthews, anthony scaramucci. we have heard from kevin carroll, who told us on our air about his 5-year-old son who knelt and prayed at the grave of general kelly's son to comfort him while donald trump sped away from arlington national cemetery after casually calling our veterans, quote, suckers and losers. we have heard from national security and intelligence chiefs, people who briefed donald trump inside the oval office, people like sue gordon who warned us on our air yesterday that donald trump will make our nation less safe and

alienate us from our intelligence allies all around the world. and now that trump's rhetoric has veered into such dangerous territory that it is right now currently under investigation, i feel compelled to share the question i get asked more than any other when i'm off this set. which is this, where is george w. bush? i understand better than most that these days he chooses to speak through his actions. through the incredible work of his library, to his daily dedication to democracy, and honoring our country's wounded veterans. but these are the comments we're talking about right now. in the united states of america. from someone running to hold the job he had, to be our president. he said this about a critic and supporter of his opponent. >> she's a radical war hawk. let's put her with a rifle standing there with nine barrels shooting at her. let's see how she feels about it

when the guns are trained on her face. they're all war hawks when they're sitting in washington in a nice building saying, gee, let's send 10,000 troops right into the mouth of the enemy. but she's a stupid person. >> so this morning, i reiterate my question to president bush's office whether anything would change his mind about staying silent ahead of the election next week. an advisered he's not going to insert himself into this political moment, but in light of the violent nature of the threat toward his former vice president's daughter during the time she served him, and as a dad whose own daughter just last week bravely entered the political fray, campaigning for kamala harris, i thought today it was important to share some of george w. bush's past statements about what america does and what americans do when they face threats. >> every milestone of liberty was considered impossible before it was achieved.

in our time. we must decide our own belief, either freedom is the privilege of an elite few or it is the right and capacity of all humanity. >> there's a line in our time and in every time between those who believe that all men are created equal and those who believe that some men and women and children are expendable in the pursuit of power. there is a line in our time and in every time between the defenders of human liberty and those who seek to master the minds and souls of others. our generation has now heard history's call and we will answer it. >> and on the work of his post presidency, which is beautiful, honoring the men and women who have been wounded in the line of duty, here's george w. bush talking about that on the "today" show.

>> our country is blessed to have people who are willing to sacrifice for something greater than themselves. >> at a young age, i realized how lucky we were to live here and i wanted to give back. >> i wanted to draw attention not only to their courage but to the fact that they have contributed once and they need to know they can contribute again. >> people ask me, do you miss being president? the answer is not really, but i miss saluting people who volunteer to wear the uniform and all four of them did. how can we help these great americans transition from the military to civilian life? they have visible wounds, they have invisible wounds. but all four of these vets are willing to stand up and say, i had an issue, and i want to help somebody else. >> he misses saluting the men and women of our military. here's how general john kelly describes a vote for donald trump when it comes to those men and women. how trump views those men and women. the men and women george w. bush lovingly paints and seeks to

honor every day. >> he basically said to you that those who died for america on the battlefield were losers and suckers. and he said it more than once. >> yes, but he would -- he would say, it would always -- something else would get him going, oftentimes against mccain. it was almost a recording, but the point is, anyways, he would say it at times, sometimes unexpectedly, but he never could wrap his arms around why people would serve the country in uniform, what was it in for them. i think he just could never wrap his arms around why people would do things selflessly. what's it in for them? i think there's a much more powerful -- that's just me. >> so today, we have a right to hope that those who have stood for freedom and celebrated those who have protected it might have a last-minute change of heart in the closing hours of this campaign. and because i once had the job

of trying to convince president george w. bush to sometimes do things he didn't want to do, i say this. on election day in 2004, while air force one sat parked on a tarmac because we decided we needed to beam into half a dozen local television interviews in battleground states to help get out the vote, george w. bush turned to me and the other communications staffers and said this, quote, whatever happens, nicolle, at least we will know we left everything on the field. i make this public plea to president george w. bush in the spirit of doing what he taught me to do, leave everything i know how to do in service of our democracy and freedoms, the things he taught us to cherish, on the field. it's where we start today, with former federal judge michael luting, and former communications director for the trump white house, sophia

kinzinger. she was one of the 13 ex-trump aides who penned a letter backing general john kelly's warning about donald trump. judge luting, i start with you. >> thank you, nicolle. it's always a pleasure to be on with you. we have finally come to the cross roads in american political history, especially after donald trump's disgusting comments last night and after the performance at his rally in madison square garden. i fully expect that americans, especially the women in america, will elect kamala harris the president of the united states this coming tuesday. by nominating donald trump as their standard bearer, republican party has created the perfect storm for the election of the first woman president of the united states. every citizen, nicolle, of this

country and especially, especially republicans, has an obligation to themselves and to america to watch the video from last night as i did early this morning, and ponder those un-american words by donald trump before they cast their votes on tuesday. the nation is now on notice. if it was not already on notice, nicolle. if americans return donald trump to the white house after those insidious comments about our fellow american liz cheney, statements that donald trump would make about any single one of his countless other enemies

from within, those who vote for him will get what they deserve. the problem is, he's not what the rest of america deserves, nicolle. >> are you scared? >> i am scared for america, nicolle. as everyone should be, especially given the former president's comments last night. heinous comments, and by the way, nicolle, as we all know, those comments were of the same cloth of many, many of his other comments over the past four years. this is a former president of the united states of america who

has promised americans that if he's elected on tuesday, he will exact, avenge, and revenge against his enemies within this country, nicolle, by whom he means our fellow americans. countless of our fellow americans who have dared to challenge his betrayal of america over the past four years. >> judge luting, there are people who believe him and agree with his desire to pursue the enemy within. but there is a whole class of people like mitch mcconnell who describe donald trump as a despicable human being, bill barr who called all of his lies about losing the 2020 election,

quote, bull shit. jd vance, who described donald trump as, quote, america's hitler. those men have made a life out of lying to a base that is now ready to accept what donald trump wants to do to liz cheney. what is your message to those men? >> come to your senses. donald trump is neither a republican nor a conservative. donald trump, as is evident, nicolle, stands for only himself. that is not the man who americans should elect on tuesday to be their president. >> judge luting, a lot of people cling to the idea that donald trump won't be able to realize his ambitions of turning the united states military against american citizens.

but a lot of folks say that with absolute immunity for official acts and his already promiscuous use of the presidential pardon, that it would be quite easy. could you lay out the scenario of how he goes about doing what he has said out loud in interviews he plans to do to his enemies within? >> yes, i would be glad to, nicolle. first, let me say that those same people have clung to the same or like hopes for eight years now. and donald trump has proven them wrong in their hopes time and time again. there is no reason whatsoever anymore for those people to

cling to those hopes about what donald trump would be if he were elected president of the united states again on tuesday. to your question, the supreme court of the united states held in trump v. united states that donald trump is for all intents and purposes above the law. if he is returned to the white house by the american people, he will have no guardrails whatsoever. in the white house and from the white house to govern the united states of america. never again can it be said after trump versus united states that

in america no man is above the law. because today, on the eve of the presidential election of 2024, the supreme court has held that donald trump is above the law, and he will never be prosecuted for the grave offenses that he committed against the united states when he was president, and he will never be prosecuted for any offenses, criminal offenses against the united states of america if he is elected president on tuesday. >> sophia, the courage of your courage, the courage of other women who saw everything and have come out to warn the country is really unmatched in presidential political history. tell me what your plea is to voters, and maybe even republican voters who thought

trump was a good idea the last few times. >> yeah, nicolle, i mean, many voters with comments like he made about liz cheney, many excuse it saying, well, he's been in office before. we know what to expect. well, let me tell you, as someone who actually was there in 2016, this is not the same man. and he's not the same man because he hasn't been held accountable yet to the abuse of power when he was in office and the years that followed. and add to that that he's been surrounded by republican leaders who have praised and fed that need that he has for approval, so this is an unhinged donald trump that is willing -- that knows no accountability and that is really knows no limits. >> sophia, some of your former colleagues in the white house, mercedes schlapp, suggested

general john kelly was a liar. do you believe general john kelly in his own voice, in his own words describing donald trump as meeting all the definitions of a fascist? >> listen, i was extremely disappointed when i saw her statement. because i worked under mercedes, and i witnessed their frustration within the white house to do their job effectively, so i know where they stand. this hypocrisy really just keeps growing. and listen, general kelly didn't need to come to the white house to prove who he was. he was a general that had already proved the strong leadership skills he had, and that's why he was called in to the white house. so now trying to, like, say that he's a liar, it's really the american public is just not believing that. >> i have so many more things to ask both of you. i'm going to ask you to stay over. i have to sneak in a break.

we'll have much more. plus, there's a phrase coined by yale professor timothy snyder that has come up a lot on this program. do not obey in advance. we'll talk to him about cheney and trump and the reaction to trump's authoritarian threats to the press and business world. and later in the broadcast, athletes lending their voice to the pro-democracy coalition. doc rivers will be here, the coach of the milwaukee bucks, and one of the latest from the sports world to weigh in, narrating a powerful new ad that will air in battleground wisconsin. he'll join us in the next hour. all those stories and more when "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. go anywhere. like crispy dragon shrimp. get to big shrimpin' today, only at red lobster.

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you and your husband, congressman adam kinzinger have lived under these klieg lights, this krutany that former republicans receive from trump and maga. can you tell us what it might be like to be liz cheney today and what it's been like to be you and your husband? >> yeah, listen, it hasn't been easy to make decisions that feel unnatural to go like against your party, your tribe. but for us, i know that it's been easy when we have had to face with defending truth. and i know it's been the same for liz. when you walk knowing your principles and your morals, you know what you need to do. and liz is a brave woman. and i think that's why it rubs trump the wrong way, and she's a

very sensitive topic to him, because she has this strong moral backbone that he doesn't. and i'm sure liz is feeling strong and knowing exactly we're used to by now, sadly. >> sofia, liz tweeted this. quote, this is how dictators destroy nations. they threaten those who speak against them with death. we cannot entrust our country and our freedom to a petty, vindictive, cruel, unstable man who wants to be a tyrant. and then she writes, hashtag women will not be silenced, and vote kamala. we played yesterday the complete meltdown on the right at the harris campaign message that inside the voting booth, basically, what happens in the voting booth stays in the voting booth. are you hearing that phenomenon anecdotally from any of your friends? >> listen, i do know there's

some women out there that prefer to not get into the political debates with either his family or community, and will show up and vote with their conscience. i do think that's a thing. especially, listen, i'm a new mom and i see things completely different now that i'm a new mom. this is just simply not the country that i want my son to grow up with. in. there's too mump darkness, and we need to fight back and do what we think is good for our future. >> judge luttig, you, i think, cut through in a way that nothing else had during the televised january 6th hearings, when you talked about donald trump as a clear and present danger. that was before he talked about pardoning the insurrectionists. that was before he used this rhetoric about nine barrels of

rifles pointed at liz cheney's head. that was before all of the trespasses of a presidential campaign launched in waco. how do you describe him today? >> it's very simple. on the eve of the election on tuesday, nicolle, donald trump is now an imminent threat to america's democracy and the rule of law. it's really that clear and that simple. that was the thrust of my essay in "the new york times," as you know. the decision now, especially after last night, and especially after that spectacle in madison square garden, could not be any clearer. >> sofia, when you watch the

spectacle in madison square garden which is the only tv-friendly word i can think to use for it, does anything surprise you having seen donald trump behind the scenes. he clearly wasn't offended by the joke in which the comedian called puerto rico trash in the middle of the ocean. they simply have become aware, i suppose, of the potential political backlash, but even now he won't apologize. tell me how you watch that rally? >> listen, during the dnc speech, adam said donald trump has suffocated the soul of the republican party. that was the perfect example of what he meant. that it's no longer the party that we once served or the one we stand proud of. that's a party filled with darkness and hate and fear. and let's be realistic. like, donald trump has been the

most real and transparent and has shown his true colors that he has ever been. like, we know who he is and we know what he stands for. the fact he didn't condemn those comments doesn't surprise anyone. and that, i go back to your last question about voting with conscience. that's exactly it. the discussion is not about policy anymore. it's about if you support or reject this darkness. >> former federal judge michael luttig and sofia kinzinger, thank you both for speaking out. i know it's not easy. i know a little bit of what you both faced for doing so, and from the bottom of my heart, thank you for doing it here. >> after the break, the ugly attacks against vice president kamala harris, what is a hallmark of the trump campaign. those attacks have not stopped in the final days of the 2024 race. we'll talk about what it means for democracy with timothy snyder next.

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ever since vice president kamala harris announced her candidacy for president, 10 thee days ago, that guy, donald trump, has shown us exactly who he is and who he would be as president. he's someone who knows no bottom when it comes to insulting and threatening and debasing the office of the pretty and his political opponents as we have been discussing. our next guest is someone who has been sounding the alarm on the dangerous and autocratic nature of the ex-president's campaign. and in a chilling substack published today, he combines quotes from the 1939 nazi rally at madison square garden with quotes from trump's final campaign rallies and dares us all to find the difference. joining us now, yale university history professor, author of the best-selling book that has become my north star "on tyranny and on freedom." tim snyder is here. thank you for being here. >> glad to be here.

>> i look for your missives in these final days, and i'm dying to talk to you about this one. take me through what you have put together and the echoes i think ken burns says rhymes and echoes are the better words than repeats between 1939 and now. >> rhymes and echoes is good. resonances and continuities. risks and possible futures are also good. it's not that we're comparing mr. trump to figures in the past. it's rather that we're realizing that mr. trump all along has understood the darkest chapters of our past and he wishes for those chapters to continue. his rally in madison square garden i believe was a conscience reference to the 1939 american nazi rally and certainly if you put the text side by side, the things that were said on sunday at the trump rally are just as chilling as the things that were said in

february 1939. and the themes from jewish conspiracies through hostile migrants to a leader cult are really startlingly similar. but we shouldn't be startled because this is what mr. trump has been trying to tell us all along. >> what are your thoughts about why people cheer at those dark, dark, dark lines with obvious historical echoes? >> well, the easy answer is that we don't know about the historical echoes. we told ourself that history was over, that only good things could happen, that the market would bring us democracy. that's not how things work. the harder answer is this kind of politics works. people like to think that they're on the side of the good no matter what they do. people like to think everything comes down to us and them. it's simple to give up your liberty to a leader and then try

to experience it as freedom. all those things feel good, which is why we have to work against them. it's not that automatically people are democratic. it's that we have to recognize the threats to democracy as human inclinations, human weaknesses, natural human tendencies. name them for what they are, which in this case is fascist, and defeat them and move on. >> liz cheney points out that by threatening a critic can death, violent death in her case, this is how democracies turn into autocracies. donald trump -- "the washington post" is out with some reporting about how trump would penalize media companies, media organizations. vice president kamala harris constantly talks about who donald trump is speaking to when he talks about the enemies within, journalists, judges, democrats, nonpartisan election workers. what is your counsel to how to stay strong against what judge

michael luttig just called the imminent threat of trumpism? >> this helps us to see the difference between these two kinds of politics. this is not a normal election. this is not a normal candidate. when he invokes death and suffering and pain, he's telling us what a different kind of politics would be. it's no longer a back and forth of interests and values where at the end of the day, we could all be better off. it's a different situation where pain is going to be directly inflicted, where people are going to suffer and die, and your only choice if you want to be on the right side is to enjoy that suffering, is to enjoy that. so we have to note just how bad things can get. but we should also recognize that the one thing which is not going to go on is the status quo that we're hovering between. things could get much worse, but they could also get much, much better. we can turn this corning like other people have done before us and we can get into a place which is much brighter. >> are your optimistic that will happen next week? >> i believe that if we all do

the things that we can do, that is what will happen. i don't think anybody should sit back and predict. this is not science, not like the weather. it's something we're directly involved in, but i believe that if the good people do the right things, if we get on the phone, if we get on the keyboard, if we knock on doors, if we donate where we should donate, if everybody does the things he or she could do, it's going to turn out all right. >> on a personal level, when you started writing about these things did you ever think you would be on tv two days before election day talking about the choices, the two candidates as starkly different, not in terms of their policies or parties, but that literally one would be a vote for democracy backed by liz cheney and adam kinzinger and dick cheney and the other would be running as someone who wants to train nine rifles on the face of liz cheney, a critic? >> i mean, first of all, i want

to start by applauding the physical courage of liz cheney and many other people who have taken stands against donald trump, because he has threatened violence against his fellow republicans as well as many other people who are far less privileged in this country and each one of them who resist donald trump is taking a stand which involves physical courage. this is maybe a little bit familiar to me because i have friends around the world who have been engaged in similar struggles, so when i see it happen in the united states, i'm not surprised. i try really hard not to be an american exceptionalist. i try not to think the institutions are going to save us or that we're better than anybody else. i try to remember if we're going to be better than anyone else, we have to show it. we have to show it for example in the next few days. we have to show it on election day. we have to show it after election day. so no, i'm not surprised as a person. i think we have to show who we are rather than imagining that something special is going to come out from history or come out from our exceptional character and do the work for

us. >> whenever anyone asks how we figure out where the fault lines are in our politics, we credit you for so much of what you taught us. thank you for joining us. >> so glad to be with you. coming up next for us, fascism has come to america. that was my next guest's warning a few months ago. we'll talk about it next. when i was diagnosed with h-i-v, i didn't know who i would be. but here i am... being me. keep being you... and ask your healthcare provider about the number one prescribed h-i-v treatment, biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in many people

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we have been warned now by

intelligence agencies that this year just like in 2020 and 2016, u.s. elections would face foreign interference campaigns. today in georgia, we're seeing what that looks like in action. secretary of state brad raffensperger saying in a statement today that a video posted by several prominent right-wing social media accounts purporting to show haitians voting illegally for kamala harris is fake. likely created and spread by russian government actors. cites the director said on our air earlier today that it was definitely russian produced and designed to go viral, to undermine american confidence in the security and integrity of our elections. she said the agency expects attempts to continue through election day and likely in the weeks and months afterward. here's the message she had to share. listen. >> it is incredibly irresponsible for anyone of

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from both bipolar i & ii depression. and in clinical trials, movement disorders and weight gain were not common. caplyta can cause serious side effects. call your doctor about sudden mood changes, behaviors, or suicidal thoughts right away. anti-depressants may increase these risks in young adults. elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. caplyta is not approved for dementia-related psychosis. report fever, confusion, or stiff muscles, which may be life threatening, or uncontrolled muscle movements which may be permanent. common side effects include sleepiness, dizziness, nausea, and dry mouth. these aren't all the side effects. in the darkness of bipolar i & ii depression, caplyta can help you let in the lyte. ask your doctor about caplyta. find savings and support at caplyta.com. do you believe in punishment for abortion? yes or no? there has to be some form of punishment. for the woman? yeah. and the punishment is real. women denied care, unable to get pregnant again. traumatized. scarred for life. young women who didn't need to die.

now, 1 in 3 women live under a trump abortion ban. and if he's elected, everyone will. there has to be some form of punishment. i'm kamala harris, and i approve this message. sleep more deeply and wake up rejuvenated. purple mattresses exclusive gel flex grid there has to be some form of punishment. draws away heat, relieves pressure and instantly adapts. sleep better. live purple. visit purple.com or a store near you today donald trump's continued

embrace of rhetoric encouraging violence against american citizens, the latest suggestion being that liz cheney should have guns, quote, trained on her face. it's brought us to a disturbing question about where we are as a country and where trump could take us next. our old friend steve schmidt warns of this, quote, what do i see? i see fascism. i see it clearly. it announced itself long ago. i see the fascism has come to america. i see that donald trump is the leader of a dangerous movement that stands against something i hold very dearly, liberty. i see that he preaches a venomous gospel of division. i see that he stokes violence. i see what is coming and it is terrible. i see the threats being made into law, the abuse of power that is coming. i seen the cynicism that allowed it to happen. i see the catastrophe at hand. get ready. joining our coverage, my long old dear friend, former

republican strategist, political commentator, founder of the warning newsletter and podcast, steve schmidt is here. hi, friend. >> hi, nicolle. how are you? >> i'm thinking of you and all of your work for the cheneys. and i wonder where you think we are, that this is where the final message of donald trump's third campaign for president is, talking about rifles, nine of them, trained against liz cheney's face? >> it's been an astonishing week in american politics as your previous guest dr. snyder talked about, what occurred in madison square garden in 2024 was a worse version of the fascist rally that occurred there on the edge of world war ii when england was fighting for survival against the nazis, the german american bung hung banners of george washington flanked by swastikas.

what dr. snyder said correctly is what was said there is being said now. so 120 hours before a presidential election, we have the maga candidate, the fascist candidate, threatening the life of one of his most vocal critics, making it clear, and you have to connect the two events because it's not just the threat. it's the fact that he has created a movement that is filled with people that in the 1960s would have been referred to as little ikemens who would pull the trigger. when you lose the hatred, when you see the contagion of the crowd as we evidenced by its behaviors in madison square garden, you're at a dangerous hour. so this country has been in dangerous moments before, even more dangerous and dire than this, but we should recognize the great danger at hand and the

momentousness of the choice that is now fully before the american people who will decide a fundamental question, which is does a ruler decide he takes charge of our lives, lock stock and barrel, whether we like it or not, or do we the people? do we the people decide who leads the country under the law, under the constitution, with limited powers for a short period of time? that question is very much at hand. >> you and i worked on the 2004 presidential campaign together in which george w. bush prevailed, and the 2008 campaign in which senator john mccain came up short. and in neither was there a conversation about whether john mccain would concede that night. he delivered one of the most glorious speeches of his life in public when he conceded to president-elect barack obama.

what are you thinking about in terms of the aftermath next tuesday? >> well, i expect the vice president will become the president elect next tuesday. i also anticipate, and we must gird ourselves for the possibility that donald trump will appear before the cameras and declare himself the victor. prematurely, early, without any basis in reality, and that will set in motion chaos. elon musk will let conspiracy theories run wild on x. on x, the winner will not be the winner. what will fox news do? will fox news even call the race? this will be the first election where we have significant sections of the media who just refuse to acknowledge the reality. so part of the danger we're in flows from the fact that the man

who is threatening liz cheney with nine rifles pointed at her face is also simultaneously declaring that his hate fest was a love fest, that his threats are affections for the american people. so war is peace, hate is love. we are in a dystopian era where trump contradicts himself by deed and word on an hourly basis, and the american people are disoriented by it because, for example, on fox news this morning, the hosts there went out of their way to make clear that, no, in fact, trump did not say what he said with tucker carlson. another fascist who preaches a gospel of hitlerism. every time he opens his mouth and talks about replacement theory, which was core to nazi ideology. so they are saying things, they

are threatening things that have not been threatened since fascists were on the edge of power or held power at different times in different places. >> how do you thing we got to a place where when someone like general kelly says what you just said, that he's a fascist to his core, it doesn't break through? >> well, i don't know that it's not breaking through. if you look at the early vote, it may be breaking through in staggering ways with young women voters. and with women voters in general. so winston churchill who was a keen observer of the american people, had this to say about us. he said that in the end, we will always do the right thing after exhausting every other possible alternative. and so here we are. there has always been drama in this country. we have never sailed on calm

seas, but the american people who are not the wild horde that you imagine them to be on the streets of the country, if you live your life on x, i don't think are going to revel in the madness that's causing all of us so much anxiety. the danger is real. the threats are real. but the goodness of the american people is also very much real. >> steve schmidt, it is a pleasure and a joy to have jow back on the program. thank you so much for joining us today. we'll see you soon. >> great to see you, nicolle. >> coming up in the next hour of "deadline: white house," just four days until the historic and unprecedented 2024 presidential campaign comes to a close, we'll do a gut check on the real state of the race with some of our favorite experts and friends. don't go anywhere. king of, frant to the bowl of chips.

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look at what's happening. all over the country, the schools are bursting at the seams, the hospitals are a disaster. you want to lose your job or maybe your house or pension because kamala has the economic understanding of a child? she's a child. >> we have an opportunity in this election to turn the page on a decade of donald trump trying to keep us divided and afraid of each other. we're done with that. we're exhausted by it. we're done with that. >> that's the choice, guys.

hi again, everybody. 5:00 in new york. we're in the homestretch, just four days to go until election day in america, 2024, two distinct choices before the american people. two opposing directions our country could go in. and there are a mix of feelings in the air today. on the one hand, we're seeing an abundance of enthusiasm. nbc news reports that nearly 65 million ballots have already been cast nationwide. and gallup is reporting more than half of the votes cast in this election will be done so before election day. when you break the excitement down by party, gallup finds democrats hold a ten-point lead over republicans. 77% of democrats say they're excited while just 67% of republicans say that. but for all the energy and hope, there is also lots of anxiety, as this race is razor tight. according to new polling in the swing states of michigan,

pennsylvania, and wisconsin, vice president kamala harris holds a lead in all of them, but they are within the margin of error. you can see there on your tv. the two candidates are spending the next few days crisscrossing the country, getting their messages out and making sure voters get to the polls. tonight, both candidates are converging on the battleground state of wisconsin, holding dueling rallies in milwaukee. vice president kamala harris will go to georgia and north carolina tomorrow. then make a few stops in michigan and pennsylvania on monday and tuesday respectively. meanwhile, donald trump will be in north carolina and virginia tomorrow, while on paper this may look like any other political race that is down to the wire, but we all know it isn't. there is one candidate who has escalated violent rhetoric, has been all too public about his autocratic plans, and has been setting the groundwork to contest the results of the election if he loses. the person he's running against

would also make history as the first ever female president running on a message of opportunity and equality and hope. here is the latest message from the harris campaign to voters in the absolutely critical state of pennsylvania. >> this election, it's bigger than us. it's about the future. do you want more chaos or like me, are you ready for some common sense? that's why i'm with kamala. i have known her for two decades. she's practical, and she gets stuff done. >> as president, i will chart a new way forward and find solutions to create jobs and bring down costs. i will fight for you and your family every day. >> pennsylvania, let's not go back. >> i'm kamala harris and i approve this message. >> that's where we start the hour with some of our favorite experts and friends. chief political columnist, host of the podcast in politic for puck, msnbc national affairs

analyst john heilemann is here, plus political analyst and democratic strategist cornell belcher is here. with me at the table, "new york times" editorial board member, msnbc political analyst mara gay is here. you're just back from being out on the trail. tell me what you saw? >> i was in georgia, not only atlanta and its far north suburbs but also in albany, in south georgia. what i saw was americans not only democrats but republicans, former lieutenant governor there, geoff duncan, independents, moms, teachers, librarians, working their hearts out for every single vote, not because they care about the democratic party but because they care about democracy, about women's rights, about civil rights. you know, i even saw senator jon ossoff, yes, he was at that rally with barack obama and bruce springsteen and kamala harris outside of atlanta, but the next day, i saw him sweating

through a button down shirt outside a tiny campaign office in albany, georgia, talking to voters, mostly black voters who are going out to canvas, and it's so important because the key to victory in that state is not only atlanta and its suburbs but driving down the republican margin of victory in rural areas largely black belt areas. and so those people in georgia, those are folks who know what the media see, what is at stake, within living memory, they remember what it was like when georgia was not a democracy for all those who lived there. and that is haunting. you drive through a place where there's trump signs in cotton fields and where people are knocking doors in that territory and they are finding voters who maybe aren't democrats, that are calling themselves sometimes politically homeless but say i can't vote for donald trump, and georgia was won by joe biden by

just over 11,000 votes. >> we all know the number. >> the takeaway that i brought home is i think there's so much angst among, again, not only democrats but people who want the project of democracy to continue, and you know, angst is okay, but there's doors to be knocked, there's calls to make. there are still votes to be had, so i just think, you know, get up and do something is what michelle obama said, and people have taken that to heart. so i have friends who will be phone banking and knocking doors in pennsylvania or in michigan, and this is from across the political spectrum. this is a movement for democracy. and it's inspiring to see people going up against long odds and fighting for every vote. it's a beautiful thing. democracy is actually really beautiful. and it's powerful. >> everybody comes back from the trail feeling inspired, which makes me wish i could get out of

the studio. cornell belcher, how do you see the race today? >> well, first, i want to say that's good reporting. and on the ground stuff, so duicose. it's painting a picture of what's happening. and look, you know, nicolle, for campaign folks like us, what she's really describing is the actual hard real work of campaigns. i know we spend a lot of time on the television ads and the polls and of course because polls are sexy and pollsters are sexy. we spend a lot of time on that stuff, but the real campaign work are those people on the ground going through that cotton field to knock on that door to engage that voter. right? and what you're hearing is that there's been a loft oback and forth and angst about it, but what you're hearing is that at least the harris campaign is doing a pretty good job of putting people on the ground and neighbor to neighbor programs and touching people and really

pulling out voters. and engaging voters, because that's the real hard work of campaigns. and that's where the campaign will be won or lost at, because in the end, who turns out? and how do they turn out? and what's that margin in that rural area that you know trump is probably going to win, but is it by 1% or 2%? you know, and if it shrinks, it makes all the difference in the world. i think that's heartening to hear. that's what i'm seeing also and feeling. that's what i'm hearing from around the country. but i'm also, look, we have talked about polling a lot here and the polls are going to be all over the place. one of the things that's consistent i see in all the polling, whether abc poll out or the ugov poll out is fairly consistent. donald trump is at 47%. >> yeah. >> you know where he is on election day? >> yeah. here's the thing about the polls, and i try not to give them disproportionate attention

because i'm not sure they're models for a campaign where one of the messages is shhh, you don't have to tell anyone how you vote. so obviously, that's in the data, if that's one of the messages. you're not going to tell the people in your house how you're voting, who the hell is going to tell -- you're not telling a pollster these things. i also think men on abortion, one, we don't know how to talk about it and cover it as journalists. two, i'm not sure we know how to ask the question of men, but the idea that all men think that abortion should become a crime. some men are not around when that choice has to be made. the vast majority of women who have a miscarriage go through that tragedy and that loss as part of a couple. and i don't think we have any way, i don't think we have any tools to talk about it and i don't think we have tools to talk to men, and i know we have no tools to poll them. in terms of this idea of dobbs dads and girl dads, are there

tea leafs you're seeing. marist has 59% of college educated men going for harris. what are you seeing in that area? >> but that's what you do see, unprecedented. two things, one data point you showed earlier, you know, four or five months ago, we were on your program talking about the enthusiasm gap and how republicans were more enthusiastic and more motivated. looking at the gallup number you just showed, that's flipped and flipped dramatically. so i think that's part, and what we talked about is look, abortion rights may not be the number one issue concern. it never is going to be the number one issue concern. the economy is always going to be the member one issue concern, but it's a mobilizing issue. the other part about that is what's so key and important what you talked about with college educated voters and college white voters. let's call a thing a thing. we weren't winning white college educated voters a going aid and

a half ago, but with the push particularly of college educated white women, we're seeing for the first time in a long time a democrat may very well win college white voters. and what does that mean? that means that suburban ring around philadelphia, that suburban ring around pittsburgh, that suburban ring around atlanta, that suburban ring around milwaukee, it's the suburbs are becoming more and more competitive and turning a little less red, a little more purple, and it's turning some of these battleground states -- it's flipping battleground states. georgia is now a state where democrats compete and compete strongly now because of the growth of the black vote, but also because of what's happening with better educated upscale white voters in the suburbs. >> john heilemann, you're always out on the road and i love hearing your dispatches from what you're seeing and hearing from actual voters.

i wonder, too, about the closing messages. i heard from a lot of people who were moved by the closing message and the proximity and the comfort at the proximity of all these republicans who are going to vote for kamala harris for the constitution, for the democracy, and liz cheney's case, she's even making the argument for kamala harris on the issue of abortion. that that closing message was so patriotic, it was so unifying. contrast it to donald trump's closing message at madison square garden. are you hearing either of those or both of those breaking through? >> um, first of all, hi, nicolle. i can tell you that i spent some time last weekend, i spent some time last weekend in michigan. and was there when michelle obama did her first appearance for vice president harris back on the campaign trail in

kalamazoo on saturday last week, and was in michigan for a period of days around that. and i think taking apart -- addressing some of the things you were talking about. first of all, nobody in the blue wall states, no one who is on the ground, an operative working for either campaign, not talking about donald trump and the people feeding him lies back in mar-a-lago, i'm talking about on the ground, doesn't think those races are very close. and it's important because in a world -- a very different world, a world where the polls, the data that the campaigns see, both campaigns, the harris campaign, the trump campaign, and the public polls which are very consistent right now, in those three states which is to say a toss-up in all three. a world where we wake up on tuesday and the polls are wrong, and they're wrong the way they were or to the degree they were

in 2016 and even to a greater extent in 2020, is a different world, and i would say even the harris people in those states would say if all the numbers are wrong, trump could win all three of these states easily and that's ball game, but they don't believe that is the case. and they have a lot of confidence in their data. and in a world where those states are razor tight, the harris campaign has an extraordinarily sophisticated, extraordinarily well resourced field operation, ground game, get out the vote operation. not only is it all those things, sophisticated, well resourced, run by the greatest field organizer by common consensus in the modern history of the democratic party, and overseen by david plouffe, the person, sitting on her shoulder, the person who has mobilized field operations for barack obama in '08 and '12 to the greatest effect, that is a huge thing,

that if the polls are right, and it's a toss-up, everybody assumes that the ground game can help kamala harris win all three of those states. and i think that it's not only their operation is really good. it's what's happening on the other side, where people who are in those get out the vote efforts that were doing door knocking, who are marching precinct to precinct, door to door, armed with incredibly sophisticated computer technology, what they're saying is the republican side is shi-touch, outsourcing the ground game to elon musk and charlie kirk. turns out not to, at least from what we can tell, turns out to maybe not be the wisest idea in the world. elon musk may be able to put a rocket on mars and might be able to build an electric car, but it turns out that trying to do the ground game in a battleground state on your first try isn't

quite the same thing. it's not an engineering feat. it's also about human motivation and organization and inspiration. and the republican ground game is a little better in pennsylvania than it is in michigan and wisconsin, but there's a vast disparity in the quality of the ground games and you can see that now in those states which is why i think increasingly with each passing day the harris campaign is a little bit more confident that they can pull out narrow but real victories in those three states, and those three states plus nebraska too, and you're at 270. that's what you need to win. >> so interesting because you and i talked last week. there was a lot more anxiety than this week. and i think you're offering sort of a mechanical articulation of why that might be the case. if you trust the data and talk to josh shapiro, talk to gretchen whitmer, they see these races as tied, but we may be at the point where this infrastructure, this muscle memory of where the votes are

and how to target them and who to send to ask for their vote, and i even think vice president harris saying on the ellipse, i am asking for you to vote for me, it's just so direct and clear. and it sound like what you're reporting is that that may make the difference. >> yeah, and i also think, i don't want to leave out the message part. i'm so impressed when i saw on the ground. i saw the obama campaign in '08, in '12, and someone who is a veteran of those operations said to me that we built a state of the art operation in '08 and a state of the art operation in '12. the difference between the '08 and '12 ground operations for obama and this one is the difference between a typewriter and a quantum computer. i was pretty impressed with that, by what i saw in the neighborhoods out there. but i will say additionally, and the reason i mention michelle obama is because her message,

which is perfectly in sync with kamala harris' message in that room in kalamazoo was a message that was driven that could have been driven to win a michigan governor's race, and there has been a revolution in those three states, wisconsin, michigan, pennsylvania, that all of them have become bluer if you look at the governor's races, all three held by second term governors now that all those states have become driven by a new demographic to go to cornell's point. these messages are targeted at a college educated voter in the suburbs, and they are responsible for the strength of gretchen whitmer, the strength of tony evers, the strength of josh shapiro, and the strength of the party in all three of those states. that's a trump era phenomenon. donald trump energized, activated and in some senses radicalized a constituency, a majority in those three states that he still is doing to this

day and that dobbs has only energized and radicalized even further and that's another reason the message the campaign is putting out is so well calibrated to what it takes to win in those three states. that combined with the turnout operation, again, is a reason why no one is pouring champagne anywhere yet, but why people feel a little more comfortable with each passing day. >> cornell, really quick, i heard on our air that donald trump is going to north carolina four times between now and tuesday. why? >> because north carolina is really close. look, if north carolina was out of reach, they wouldn't be spending so much time there. again, just leaning into the point that was just made there, the dynamic is changing. the minority voting population plus a lot of young voters, plus what you're seeing -- you know, the research triangle in north carolina is could very well be what northern virginia is for

virginia. upscale, well educated white voters which are helping to push virginia, helped push virginia from traditionally a red state to a purple-ish blue state. a lot of us feel north carolina is not very far behind that. >> all right, john heilemann and cornell belcher, two people who know what's going on on the ground, thank you for starting us off. mara sticks around for the hour. >> when we come back, heartbreaking new evidence of the grave and real damage being done to women in states with strict abortion bans. the story of a pregnant teenager who died after trying to get help from three emergency rooms in texas. we'll tell you that story next. plus, the disgraced ex-president has promised that he will put, wait for it, robert f. kennedy jr. in charge of health and specifically, quote, women's health. oh, god. >> and later, one day after lebron james endorsed vice president kamala harris, we will be joined by milwaukee bucks

head coach doc rivers, an icon in his own right, on what's at stake in this election and why he's using his platform to support the harris/walz ticket. "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. daddy, hi. speaker: goodness. my daughter is being treated for leukemia. [music playing] i hope that she lives a long, great, happy life and that she will never forget how mom and daddy love her. saint jude-- maybe this is what's keeping my baby girl alive. [music playing] narrator: you can join the battle to save lives by supporting st. jude children's research hospital. for just $19 a month, you'll help us continue the life-saving research and treatment these kids need now and in the future. speaker: cancer makes me feel angry, like not in the feel on the outside, just the inside. i'm angry at it.

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when donald trump's hand-picked supreme court justices overturned roe v. wade, and ushered in cruel, illogical abortion bans, let them go into effect, they created literally two americas. one where it's largely safe to be pregnant and one where being pregnant and having any sort of complication or miscarriage can

be deadly. today, propublica published the account of the death of a texas teen who died despite trying three times to access urgently needed medical care. quote, candice falls screamed for someone in the texas hospital to help her pregnant daughter. quote, do something, she pleaded. her daughter, neva, was crying in pain, too weak to walk, blood staining her thighs. feverish and vomiting the day of her baby shower, the 18-year-old had gone to two different emergency rooms within 12 hours. returning home each time worse than before. now, on crane's third hospital visit, an obstetrician insisted on two ultra sounds to, quote, confirm fetal demise, a nurse wrote, before moving her to intensive care. by then, more than two hours after her arrival, crane's blood pressure had plummeted.

and a nurse had noted that her lips were, quote, blue and dusky. her organs began failing. hours later, she was dead. in america. and i wish that i could say this doesn't ever happen and won't ever happen again. but doctors tell propublica that this is the state of medicine in places with trump abortion bans. quote, pregnant women have become essentially untouchables, one provider noted. others said that pregnant women are now bounced around like, quote, hot potatoes, with health care providers reluctant to participate in treatment that could attract a prosecutor. imagine that. for her part, crane's mom candace still cannot understand

why her daughter's condition wasn't treated like an emergency. here he is earlier today. >> i'm hollering at them and telling them to save my daughter, save my daughter. do something. i felt like the doctors were more concerned about the baby than her life. i'm frustrated how these laws are affecting my daughter from getting justice that she deserves. >> joining us now, president of reproductive freedom for all, mini tim arogue. mara is still here. nevaeh is her daughter and she died. we sit here and talk about other things and at the end of the day if we're lucky we go home and hold our daughters, but the idea this couldn't happen to anyone, a preg nbt woman in a car crash, a pregnant woman on a business trip to a southern state with a trump abortion ban, a pregnant woman in their 40s who knows she's got a high risk pregnancy and something goes wrong.

pregnant woman with two or three other children who wants one more, maybe going for the girl she doesn't have yet. to be pregnant in america and think that you could die or that your daughter could die or your mom could die or your sister could die is not something that anyone, no woman or man should accept this in america. why are we here, mini? >> so look, nicolle, i went to texas yesterday. the other story i know you have talked about is josealyn, the young woman in houston who had a beautiful daughter who she loved very much, and i stood with texas providers -- excuse me -- and congresswoman fletcher. today i'm in nevada with jacky rosen and tammy duckworth and we're talking about these women. we are now currently in a moment in history where we have to ask ourselves, are we going to let

them keep killing us? that's the question on the table for voters today. in four days. we have to ask ourselves, are we going to let them keep letting us die, and in some cases, killing us? that's it. it couldn't be starker. couldn't be clearer. we have to be more plain spoken about what's happening right now. because we have to break through. we cannot continue to live like this. pregnancy should not be a death sentence in this country, and right now, in my home state of texas, it is. >> let me just call bullshit on people like mike pence who are not voting for donald trump but say they won't vote for kamala harris because of the sanctity of life. i respect that, i worked for men who believe that, and i understand that view of the world. but as liz cheney has said in her public advocacy for kamala harris, a woman's life matters too. and a mother's life can't be sacrificed when she's in a

hospital with sepsis. i mean, what do you say to people who are not voting for donald trump but because of the issue don't think they can vote for kamala harris? >> you know, the vice president says it herself so well that one must not abandon their own faith to believe that politicians shouldn't be making these decisions. you know, and look, in the case of jocelyn, what happened to her, nicolle, was pre-dobbs. dehappened in that window right after texas' bounty hunter ban sb-8 and the dobbs decision. and she was an immigrant woman, right? in texas, she had to go where she had to go. her husband didn't even realize sb-8 happened and abortion care wasn't available to them in texas. i think what we have to remind voters who might have personal conflicted feelings about

abortion care is that there's no part of the country that supports the government making these decisions over you. do you want the government, do you want politicians making life and death choices for you or telling you how and when to have a family? that's not what we have been fighting for our entire history of a nation. we have been fighting for our fundamental freedoms. i was with tammy duckworth, an american hero. put her body on the line in the military, fighting for us in iraq, fighting her whole career for our freedom, losing her limb, and losing her fertility as a combat veteran. and is now the author of the major ivf legislation in the senate. she conceived both of her beautiful daughters by ivf. she has to be here in nevada campaigning and explaining to

people, i put my body on the line for the american people. why won't our senate support my ability to make decisions about my own body? that's the situation we're in. so when i talk to those conflicted voters, it's important to give them the whole picture. you can be a conservative. you can be a republican. you can believe -- you can be pro-life, and still support removing government interference from these decisions leading up to patience and their providers and their own families and their own faith. >> i'm going to ask both of you to stick around. we'll all be right back. k.

robert f. kennedy jr. we have. and he's going to work on health and women's health. and all of the different reasons because we're not really a wealthy or a healthy country. >> rfk jr. is going to be in charge of the women. for a million reasons that's nuts. if you're worried that with all the abortion bans and the celebration that trump does about overturning roe, you think that donald trump doesn't take our health or our lives seriously, don't worry. he's got a plan or at least the concepts of a plan. he's going to put the

anti-vaccguy, the guy with brain worms who for lapse dubbed the carcass of a bear cub in new york in charge of us. we're back with mini and mara. what could go wrong? >> nicolle, i mean, i'm just going to set rfk jr. aside for a moment and talk about the women who we are at the heart of this. it has been painful, i don't know if you feel similarly, but to see women who have and families who have gone through just the most unimaginable pain, either miscarriage or losing a daughter because she couldn't get the health care she needed, losing a wife, it's been really painful to see them have to share publicly the worst moments and days of their lives. because there is a movement in this country to strip half the population, not only of its reproductive freedom but of its

dignity and our human rights. and our citizenship. and i think the reason those stories are so powerful, at least for me, is that, you know, there are a lot of people in america, and i know some of them, just everyday voters who consider themselves to be anti-abortion because they care about the value of life. those are pro-life voters is what they would describe themselves as. and you know, that's not really, i believe, what this movement, what project 2025, what donald trump, what trumpism is really about. and the reason these stories are so powerful is because they show that in vivid detail. this is not a movement that cares about babies, about women, about families. this is a movement that cares about power and about stripping equal citizenship from those they deem less than american, less than human, less than white, christian, heterosexual men with money. that's what this is about.

and you know, when women are dying across america or almost dying, because they're having miscarriages, more and more americans, i just came back from georgia, i had been in north carolina before that, you know, there are a lot of americans in these states who know women who had to leave the state to get health care. that is not what the traditional pro-life voters of america want. they don't want their daughters and their friends dying because they're having a miscarriage. nobody asked for that. so i think that those stories show how this is about controlling women. it's not about protecting life. and it's obvious, americans know that. we know it viscerally. and i believe that on election day, we'll have our say. >> i have said now for many months, don't sleep on the men, don't sleep on the girl dads. i'll say this, to all those guys

cozied up in their manosphere, don't sleep on the fact that all of these women get pregnant by having sex with you. i mean, the idea that we cover this as a woman's issue is bananas. mini timmaraju, thank you. i know these are the hardest conversations in the world, and we always turn to you to have them with us. thank you so much. when we come back, doc rivers will be here. he's the head coach of the milwaukee bucks. he'll be our guest, as his state and his city will play a vital, perhaps determinative role in choosing the outcome of this presidential election. doc joins us next. don't go anywhere.

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a more human way to healthcare. no matter who you are, where you live, or what you believe, there are things we all have in common for black americans and for all people. what matters most is family, community, and a chance to thrive. but a future where we can all thrive is under threat, and our schools and our towns, even in our halls of justice. the naacp® has been on the front lines for over 100 years, fighting for rights still denied to too many in this country. but our work is not done, our fight continues. with decades of progress on the line. we are not going back. what matters most in this moment is what you do next. we need your support today. so please call or go online right now to keepadvancing.org. for $19 a month, only $0.63 a day. you can become a champion for change

and help the naacp® keep advancing in the areas that matter most. winning the fight for racial justice, health equity for black families. equal access to education for our children, protecting women's rights, voting access and growing a new generation of leaders. the naacp continues to be a pillar in black america, fighting to keep advancing liberty, justice, and freedom so we all have access to the things that matter most. call the number on your screen or go online to donate monthly. when you give by credit card. we'll send you this exclusive t-shirt to show you are a champion for change, fighting for social justice and all of our rights. together, let's fight for community and opportunity and the chance to thrive. because the naacp® can't do any of this important work without one important person, you.

so please call or go online to keepadvancing.org today. because every vote counts, the most essential effort in the final days of any campaign is reaching voters and talking to them, making sure they listen, reaching them wherever they are. that means communicating a message to those voters who might otherwise sit it out and let an election pass them by, that they have everything to gain, making sure they know that, or perhaps everything to lose, making sure they understand that. depending on the ultimate result. so you can understand why the harris campaign might be so elated with what they have seen lately from some of the most followed and influential people in our culture, the biggest

names in sports rallying around her campaign. president obama today thanked nba superstar lebron james for his endorsement of kamala harris yesterday. and this week, her team joined forces with championship winning coach doc rivers, now of the milwaukee bucks, to make this ad. >> in this town, we have seen our share of hard times. heard our share of big promises. >> up to 13,000 jobs. >> but empty promises don't build cities. >> plans never materialized. >> we do, with grit, sweat, and cold beer. so when he talks [ bleep ] -- >> former president trump called milwaukee a horrible city. >> we know talk is all he's got. and this is what we've got. >> joining our conversation, nba championship winning coach, current head coach of the milwaukee bucks, doc rivers is

here. thank you so much for joining us. >> thanks for having me, nicolle. >> can we see your shirt? what does it say? >> you like it? >> i love it. >> be a man, vote for a woman. >> i thought i had a good one. >> i love your sweater. >> we'll trade. i'll send you one of these, you send me one of those. tell me what the conversation is among men about doing that, voting for a woman. >> you know, it's funny. i guess that question is a great question would be where you're at, what audience you're in at the time. for the most part, you don't hear that you're voting for a man or a woman with people i talk to. you're talking about voting for the most qualified person. in my circles i talk mostly about, you know, when i was a kid, i voted for -- my parents always talked about the president being a role model. you know, being a decent person. you know, obviously, when i was young, which was so long ago,

nicolle, it was always men. and you wanted your son to be like that person. and now, your son should follow and be like kamala harris. she is clearly the better role model in this case. just in decency alone. we can get into all the other things, but just the decency part of this is a no-brainer. i love what lebron james wrote. it was awesome, because it's so true. he talked about his kids and what his kids wanted to see and be and not being a bully and all these things. it's so obvious. and i agree, what are we talking about here? yet we're here talking about it. >> you know, i am a big fan of the nba. i bleed warriors colors. no disrespect. but i felt during the trump years that you and coach kerr

and popp became outsized cultural leaders because the president of the united states was talking about sons of bitches exercising their first amendment rights. he was cyberbullying public figures and private figures in way that any of our elementary school kids would get kicked out of school for doing. i wonder, is that a burden, a blessing? how do you feel about that? >> i don't think it's a burden. and i don't think it's just us. you know, i don't think it's my job or popps' or steve kerr's job. we're all shepherds of our country and we should all take care of it. i don't think there should be a comfort zone for anyone who is a racist. i don't think you should be made comfortable if you have those feelings. i think it shouldn't be a black thing or a white thing. it should be an everybody thing. if you hear or see something wrong, you see someone bullying, you should speak out against it. it's not what we are, it's not what we want to be, and this country is so much better and

stronger when we're more united and do things together. >> i think that's the strength of kamala harris' message, and i think it's an error when we see this comment about puerto rico being garbage, it's not puerto rican voter problem, it's an american problem. most americans don't view puerto rico that way. and i wonder what you think of all of the efforts to slice and dice us into groups that oppose each other. >> well, you just can't allow it. we can't whitewash history. it seems like all of a sudden all of the past history is trying to be whitewashed or changed. you can't do that. we have to learn from that. all the different races, we're all one. we're one people. we're americans. and we have to keep

an update to the story we started our show with today. we learned just moments ago that liz cheney is on the record today calling on former president george w. bush to endorse vice president kamala harris. in an interview for "the new yorker" that aired friday but was recorded last week prior to donald trump's most recent violent ret tore rick directed towards her, cheney said this. >> it was not a difficult decision at a you will for my dad. he has been absolutely i would say as concerned for maybe even longer than i have been about

the danger that donald trump poses and i am -- i can't explain why george w. bush hasn't spoken out, but i think it's time and i wish that he would. >> another break for us. we'll be right back. emergen-c crystals pop and fizz when you throw them back. and who doesn't love a good throwback? ♪♪ now with vitamin d for the dark days of winter. he has plans to punish his political enemies

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thank you so much for letting us into your homes for another week of shows. we're so grateful. figure out how to vote if you haven't done it already. right now stay and watch the beat with ari melber. hi, ari. >> nice of you to say, nicole. i forgot today i was going to wear my t-shirt that said, in order to form a more perfect