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stick with us for live coverage of the final three days of the campaign and election night results. that's it for me and thank you for watching. tune in for when senator tammy baldwin joins me live to talk about the presidential election as well as her own hotly contested race and i will speak with dan goldman and stacy tran aids for the battle of the control of house. that's right here on msnbc. keep it here with more live election coverage. on the saturday light both tickets hit north carolina. a short time ago, the former president taking the stage in the later hour in greensboro as the nation gears up for the most consequential and unpredictable election of our lifetime.

>> three days left and the heat is on to win over undecided voters if there are any left out there . the closer the margins across the states, the tighter the race will be. both campaigns have descended on the state of north carolina, vice president kamala harris rallied in charlotte a short time ago after spending most of the day in atlanta. >> we still have work to do. here's the thing i know about everyone here, we like hard work. hard work is good work. hard work is joyful work. make no mistake, we will win. >> former president donald trump is supposed to rally in greensboro north carolina if he ever leaves the stage where he

is currently in virginia. in pennsylvania we will see former first lady michelle obama campaigned for the harris ticket in north town and we will monitor all of this over the course of the next two hours. we want to dig into the sinister escalation by the trump campaign and its allies to sow doubt about the election. his north carolina -- while he is in north carolina tonight rather, he and his running mate, jd vance have set their sights on pennsylvania. running false attacks about the security of the states elections and ramping up baseless allegations of voter fraud. bogus claims and the video circulating so fast the fbi had to come out and address them saying in a statement that the election integrity is among the highest priority and the fbi is working closely with state and local law enforcement to

respond to the election threats and to protect our communities as americans express the right to vote. the fbi debunked two videos falsely claiming that the fbi apprehended three linked groups committing ballot fraud and a second relating to second gentlemen doug emhoff are not authentic or from the fbi and the content that they depict. we know trump will do this because this is what he did the last time. his biggest allies are pushing him to do this as well like steve bannon who is fresh out of prison and had this to say. >> president trump came up at 2:30 in the morning at a talk that he should have done at 11:00 at night.

i urge president trump, if the votes come in like it looks like they will come in, he should step up and inform the american citizens of exactly what is going on and to not key people in the dark like what was done in 2020. >> as for democrats the harris campaign officials tells nbc news while they fully expect trump to declare victory early, "it won't work. he did this before, it failed. if he does it again it will fail." let's get to the campaign trail a national correspondent joins us from greensboro north carolina were trump is expected to speak shortly. what do we expect to hear from trump this hour as we get into the closing stretch? there's been all kinds of things over the last day alone that even by donald trump's standards, it has been somewhat bizarre." >> reporter: you are right. i've been at rallies that have only focused on arnold palmer's

anatomy, shall we say, and in his homestretch, his rhetoric is escalating. north carolina is interesting because he spending a lot of time here in his final days with two rallies here today and he will return tomorrow and again on monday. let's look at the context here. north carolina is a state democrats have not won since 2008. he's not lost north carolina but he is here playing defense because it is in play this time around and if he loses north carolina that makes it pretty difficult. the are record numbers including in western north carolina that was hard hit by hurricane helene . there out facing democrats by 50,000 votes. especially given the skepticism with what he had sown for years now. the reality is we just don't know and won't know until

election day if those are added votes to the total or if there are votes for some people deciding to vote early. i will say to the point you were making in your intro there, here in greensboro, as they are waiting for trump, urging people to use everything that they can to vote, early absentee and all that, he adds to the video saying most important thing is making sure they don't cheat because they are cheaters, emphasizing that is a possibility. again, we have seen no evidence of this in the election but the crowd cheered when he said that. this area he's been sowing, it's something that his voters and supporters believe. they are saying that there are huge losses. these are actually pretty serious lawsuits. it's the kind of things

campaigns to file around for elections but there has been no evidence of widespread cheating or flawed but there have been challenges we have reported on those things. >> all right we will check in with you throughout the course of the next two hours. thank you for starting us off. our analyst at ucla law school professor with me now of political silence, the former pennsylvania governor as well. it's great to have both of you with us. rick, i'll start with you in the fbi statement release, how concerned are you and how concerned should we be with the situation we are facing when the fbi has to put on a statement to reassure the public of election integrity and at the same time we see donald trump and his allies pushing this false narrative that the other side are cheaters and that the election a lyle is becoming a cornerstone message of his election denials becoming a

cornerstone message of his in these final days. >> this is very much what he was doing during the last election and in the last election much of what was trying to be spread over social media was unsuccessful because twitter was doing more to police the disinformation. youtube is doing more. so i think it's important word gets out there. there are sources of authority where people hear about the claims of fraud and almost always they turn out to be wrong so people have to take it with a grain of salt the fact is you know, he's feeding a republican base which has been primed since he has been on the seat since 2016 to believe whatever he loses, it's because someone is cheating. that really escalates the situation in the country where millions of people may not accept the election results if they don't go his way next week. >> the governor , lawsuits in your state when it comes to pennsylvania, experts say the unique voting laws make its

fertile ground for dubious voter fraud claims or lawsuits but that's unlikely to stop the certification of the election results and as we said you have trump and jd vance doing that, exploiting the state laws to make false claims of fraud so how concerned are you about this? >> this is the same song they song 40 years ago but a different verse. you have to understand they filed 43 fraud claims against the election results in the process. our governor josh schapiro, he knew he was going to challenge. that case was assented assessed by donald trump. he's at it again. earlier this week he attacked the election procedures. he said that there were false

ballots found but what they found is that there were fraudulent registration forms found and they found it themselves. we have great election workers all over. they take their job seriously. they would not cheat for either side and in fact, the system worked. this was found by the election workers, not by donald trump but by the election workers. they sent it to the district attorney and the votes will not be counted and there will be a criminal investigation to see who was responsible pending the votes. so this is the way it works. it worked in pennsylvania. it will work again in 2024. >> rick, let me ask you about the steve bannon soundbite we

played. it's saying that he will declare victory prematurely and i guess that is the fear, if he begins to trail in the results. he did this in 2020. steve bannon was think he should have come out earlier in the night and declared himself the victor to try to cast doubts on these results but i'm curious, what are your thoughts on how this will play out on election night if donald trump comes out prematurely and tries to declare himself the victor or uses the closeness of the race or the uncertainty of these results to his advantage to so this doubt. >> it's likely if we see patterns which look like last year with a state like pennsylvania, moore reported votes will be for donald trump on election night then there will be for kamala harris because the in person votes are counted first and rural votes are reported faster than cities and both of these things lead

to democratic votes reported later so he could try to play on the blue shift or red mirage is the way to claim victory but i think that we are inoculated against it. whatever one needs to understand is the race, if it is close would be too early to call and everyone will need to have patience. i don't think anyone who saw what happened last time, donald trump declared victory last time and he didn't win the election. trump has said outlandish things for as long as he's been around and people, believing it or not believing it what they want to be the truth if they will accept those statements. >> one of the bigger statements right now is misinformation or disinformation and it's not only trump pushing the lies out about pennsylvania, elon musk, the owner of x, using his platform to spread misinformation about voting in your state and has set up camp in pennsylvania to campaign for trump emerging as his biggest financial donor. it's one thing for trump to do

it but it's another thing when one of the worlds richest men and owner of the largest or one of the largest social media sites is platforming these lies. >> with the big government contractors, it's a terrible situation. something should be done to rectify this in the future. i want to stress one thing you said, pennsylvania has a particular problem because we are one of the only seven states saying we cannot touch the mail-in ballots when the polls open on election day so as a result, this takes us longer to get the mail-in ballots counted and we were blessed in 2024, 2020, we didn't certify election results till that saturday of the election.

we tried to get the legislators to change that and allow the ballots to be prepared three days prior to election day which would have shortened the time but they could not agree on it so there will be a delay with pennsylvania's getting counters. we won't have it, it raises a suspicion level and we have explained to people why that is. it's the way the law is framed. >> a reminder, pennsylvania emerging as one of the states that will be closely watched. we say this about a lot of states but no doubt pennsylvania would be front and center. >> there's all the claims of fraud which means they are seeing something . >> former governor and rick,

thank you to both of you we appreciate your insights. we will talk to the former new tenants governor about what it takes to win his home state of wisconsin lieutenant governor about what it takes to win his home state of wisconsin. wiscon. it also reduced flare-ups. breztri won't replace a rescue inhaler... for sudden breathing problems. it is not for asthma. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. don't take breztri more than prescribed. breztri may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling ...problems urinating vision changes, or eye pain occur. ask your doctor about breztri.

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she's been there nearly a dozen times since her husband was put on the harris ticket. harris and trump held dueling rallies in milwaukee painting a stark contrast for the country. there are more than 1.3 million votes already cast in wisconsin. president biden won the state by some 20,000 votes in 2020 and was one of the states involved in trump's if a collectors scheme and with me now the former lieutenant governor, mandela barnes, a president of powers to the polls, the founder of long-run pack. it's great to have you here on the show. you are out talking to voters today. give us a sense of what you are hearing from people there. are there any undecided voters at this point? >> thank you for having me. i'm excited to be here again. there's all this energy and enthusiasm with organizers . in milwaukee we sent out about 150

paid organizers. close to the same number of those who are out there in partnership with the working families of the party and went to kenosha, people have been knocking on doors. saying their livelihoods depend on it and that is the reality. based on these conversations with the organizers and volunteers, there have been a number of undecided voters that they've been able to make contact with. i'm as surprised as you are about that there are some people where the information just has not necessarily reached. >> what is the calculation among some of the undecided voters? what are they waiting to hear from when you are on the ground about what will tip it one way or the other? >> the unfortunate part , they came across one they had not decided who they would vote for was likely due to a mischaracterization of either of these candidates whether they thought these things were more favorable for donald trump

but certainly were true or things they believed were complete lies about kamala harris so with all the money spent, a lot of people just don't know who to listen to and what to believe right now and that's why it is so important that the grassroots organization takes place because that's where this one will be won or lost. >> it's no doubt harris is making inroads for republicans in wisconsin. this week she engaged the support of outgoing republican state senator, the former mayor, the republican mayor, sean riley one of the states biggest strongholds. what does this tell you about the anti-trump sentiment where you are? >> the mayor who endorsed kamala harris i know him personally, i've got great things to say of him. i had the chance to partner with him on different things. he's the kind of leader who is beyond partisanship in this regard because donald trump hasn't done the republican party a great service. he has exposed a lot of the

toxicity that already exists and a lot of people, whether they want to believe it or not it was there but now they see the fruits coming to bear and they want nothing to do with it. they are trying to get away from the party as quickly as possible. imagine in this hyper partisan environment we are in, a republican who would consider endorsing a democrat let alone for the president of the united states of america, that tells you all you need to know about the status of the republican party. >> let me get your thoughts on the data for the wisconsin elections commission and how you read into it it shows the state gained more than 102,000 voters over the last month and that number could grow since your state allows the same day

registration. does the number tell us anything about voter enthusiasm and how this could break? >> we expect the number to grow and this will be because of the grassroots porch and the effort we are involved in and the 100+ thousand voters. it says a lot about what is at stake. i'm not going to city to try to predict what partisanship is there or how that will break down for us versus the trump campaign but what i will say, it shows people are paying attention. they are getting involved in the race and won't see the same type of fall that we saw like in 2016. >> the former lieutenant governor of wisconsin, thank you for joining us and i appreciate your insights as always. what voters are telling this congresswoman about the war in gaza. gaza. they tell me they pay less out of pocket for everyday expenses like their prescriptions, over-the-counter medications, doctor's visits.

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>> donald trump became the first candidate in this election to visit dearborn. there is israel's ongoing war both in gaza and in lebanon and frustration with the biden administration's policies. they see it as neglect for the voters making campaign stops in small cities across the key battleground states. the mayor refused to sit down with trump and he along with other influential michigan politicians like the congresswoman are not endorsing either candidate. for voters who feel disillusioned senator bernie sanders had this to say. >> some of you are saying, how could i vote for kamala harris if she is supporting this terrible war? that's a very fair question. let me give you my best answer.

that is, even on this issue, donald trump and his right-wing friends are worse. >> arguing that there is a much better chance of the u.s. policy saying that he's doing a good job and that biden is holding them back. the question with three days left, will the decision not to change course on policy cost harris election. congresswoman thank you for joining us. you've been on the ground. you are talking to the voters. what is the answer to the question? are you concerned that the biden-harris policy on gaza may cost or michigan or perhaps the election? >> it's great to be with you, yes him on the ground and i'm

staying in dearborn, right now i'm in detroit but we were in camden, warren, dearborn, all over the state of michigan and wisconsin as well as pennsylvania and in georgia. we were speaking to american muslim voters because this is a crucial block of voters and what i could tell you is it's not a monolith, as you know, the pain is very real. i know you've covered this a lot. the reality is, people are struggling. there are still people making up decisions right now. the conversations we are having our deep. they are painful in many cases. i will tell you the people that have decided what they are going to do have not come to the decision easily. i'm seeing a big shift. it's my fourth time in michigan in four weeks. i'm seeing a big shift from a couple of weeks ago . people are now making the decision in part because they've seen that donald trump is not a good option. you know, they watched the riley were rudy giuliani said horrific things about palestinians being essentially

read to kill people by the age of two and they've seen donald trump say to prime minister netanyahu he should finish the job or do whatever he needs to do . so i don't think he's convincing them. for many of them, they are debating whether they vote third party or whether they stay out. at the same time i have spoken to so many arab and muslim voters in particular and young voters and others who are concerned with the war and the administration's policy. they understand our ability to organize is best had under the president kamala harris because donald trump will shut us all down, do mass deportations, do naturalizations. it's a very difficult choice, no one's coming to these choices more easily but they are thoughtful and super educated about the issues at hand. >> what's the argument that you make to voters . those who are

sitting this election out, what is the most compelling argument you could make on behalf of the harris campaign bernie sanders making the case that there is better organization under the vice president as opposed to under trump so what do you think is the central argument that's to be made to the voters? >> i think the central argument is about under whom will be be able to build and i call it sustained power because what the communities want and deserve is sustained power and the idea of how you build that power, we've talked through that. it means building a bigger coalition of allies. pro-peace allies and under a donald trump administration not only will the damage be extreme

in gaza, lebanon, and the middle east but also i think the idea of how we actually build a more powerful movement and how we push will be destroyed because everyone will fight for themselves. people will be divided and it will be difficult so i think it's one of the big arguments. i think the other one is to talk about what donald trump did in his first four years. i think when people remember and remind themselves that he's the one who moved the embassy to jerusalem, donald trump is the one who put in place the u.s. ambassador to israel and actually has monetary interests in settlement expansion and he's the one who empowered all of that settlement expansion and she and he will give netanyahu support again. so there's no resistance to any of this and within the democratic party there is

resistance and a growing movement of members of congress on the inside come a movement allies on the outside who believe our policy toward israel and the middle east is wrong and we need to actually enforce our domestic laws. the chance of us continuing to build the movement has to come from within the democratic party and not by putting republicans in charge. >> what happens if the vice president wins and you have a large portion of the population who has sat out or not voted does that even diminish them more in a future administration that their votes or their voice does not matter anymore? >> this is one of the conversations we've been having . very understandably, people want to punish the biden administration or punish democrats by either not voting or voting for third-party and what we talk through his who

actually gets punished and what is the purpose of the punishment? if the purpose of it is to say with democrats you have to pay attention to us i can tell you and we have talked about this that's never been the case. if kamala harris loses and it's because of a lot of people set up the selection if anything unfortunately those people will probably be blamed but more than that i think the idea no one is going to be in a position of donald trump wins to even talk about who did or did not vote and how we rebuild because we will all be scrambling to protect ourselves individually. he will even have more opportunity to turn each other against each other. all of those things, people are weighing and i've been so moved. in the midst of this pain and grief and anger, the feelings of disrespect, people have been willing to have these conversations and to really think through, what's the way

for us to build sustained power and end the war? to bring about peace for so many people who are dealing with losing in some cases, dozens of family members. it's been a difficult time but i am moved people are willing to have that conversation. >> i'm sure the community appreciates you. >> i think a lot of people think it's a missed opportunity by the campaign not to engage more directly. congresswoman, i look forward to talking to you on the other side of this week when perhaps we know whether or not this will make a difference. thank you so much. >> before we go, former first lady michelle obama is speaking in pennsylvania let's take a listen. >> until they directly impact your life.

when it's your family trying to keep up with the rising cost of groceries and when it's you who cannot see a path to owning your own home and when it is your kids whose school is not keeping up or the board is banning books and when it's your family at risk in a conflict overseas or stopped at the border or your son or daughter who is the one whose life choices are limited because of who they love. the anger and despair it's especially hard. during those dark and difficult times, we need leaders who will connect with people's pain and address the systemic issues at their root. not leaders who stoke our fears and focus fury on one another. see, because once you open up that gasoline can, once you wink at haight and make it normal to call someone a bimbo, low iq, or humans come, you can't control how fast and far

that fire of hatred will spread . all of a sudden someone feels emboldened to say that our fellow citizens in puerto rico come from an island of garbage. all of a sudden people are saying a political opponent is the antichrist? all of a sudden people are marching with torches, running cars through crowds of peaceful protesters and marching on the nation's capital to overturn a free and fair election. look, as i've said, instruction is swift and merciless. no one knows where this will stop. one day it's coming for people you've never met. maybe it's immigrants or black people or the trans community but then it's coming for a neighbor, a friend, a family member who is puerto rican or jewish or palestinian. then it's coming for you.

>> we will keep monitoring this. we will take a quick break and continue the conversation on the other side. stay with us. ith us. arexvy is a vaccine used to prevent lower respiratory disease from rsv in people 60 years and older. rsv can be serious for those over 60, including those with asthma, diabetes, copd and certain other conditions. but i'm protected. arexvy is proven to be over 82% effective in preventing lower respiratory disease from rsv and over 94% effective in those with these health conditions. arexvy does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients. those with weakened immune systems may have a lower response to the vaccine. the most common side effects are injection site pain, fatigue, muscle pain, headache, and joint pain. arexvy is number one in rsv vaccine shots.

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i slide tackled. i see that. it's got to be tide. the harris campaign is out with a new ad focusing on donald trump's vile comments about the consequences for seeking abortion care and tying it to the real life experiences of women living under the ban trump is responsible for. >> do you believe in punishment for abortion, yes or no? >> there has to be some portion of punishment. >> women are denied care, unable to get pregnant again, traumatized, scarred for life. young women who did not need to die. now one in three women live under a trump abortion ban and if elected, everyone will.

>> there has to be some form of punishment. >> i'm kamala harris and i approve this message. >> the focus on stores of the devastating and deadly impact of abortion bans on women is a central part of the harris campaign. last month, there were a report of two georgia women who died after they could not access legal abortions and timely medical care. this week we learned at least two more women who have died in texas under the state's strict abortion ban. the state bans the procedure after doctors could detect fetal heartbeat six weeks into pregnancy. a 28-year-old mother in houston was 17 weeks pregnant when she learned she was having a miscarriage. she grieved the news, she dreamed of giving her daughter a sibling. at that point the doctor should have offered to speed up the delivery or empty her uterus to stave off a deadly infection. more than a dozen medical

experts reported. december 3, 2021 two days after the abortion ban had gone into effect. she told her husband what the team had said, they had to wait until there was no heartbeat and that it would be a crime to get an abortion. three days after she delivered, she died of an infection. horrific. egregious. that is with more than a dozen medical experts saying this over her case when they were asked to review her hospital records. all of these experts said her death was preventable. that in another instance a year ago, a pregnant 18-year-old woman was denied medical care for 20 hours. it took three

visits to texas emergency rooms for the hospital finally admitted her. she was crying in pain and was too weak to walk with blood running down her legs. she developed a fever and began to vomit during her baby shower. she had gone to two different emergency rooms over the span of 12 hours returning home each time, worse than before. at the first hospital she was diagnosed with strep throat. doctors didn't even examine her cramps and during her second visit she screened positive for sepsis and her six month fetus had a heart beat. they said she was fine to leave and on her third hospital visit she had to undergo two ultrasounds and the nurses words to confirm fetal demise before moving to intensive care and it was too late because hours later she was dead. nine doctors who reviewed her case said that while they weren't certain from looking at the records provided that her death could have been prevented. they said it may have been possible to save the teenager and her fetus if she had been

admitted earlier for close monitoring and treatment. these two stories are just some of many examples of how the abortion bans across the country are delaying critical care and are leading to death. the outcome of tuesday's election will determine whether or not this get worse. worse. i . better breathing, symptom improvement, and reduced flare-ups. breztri won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. it is not for asthma. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. don't take breztri more than prescribed. breztri may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain... mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating,... vision changes, or eye pain occur. ask your doctor about breztri.

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>> we think it's very inappropriate for you to say so and i said why i'm president and i want to protect the women of our country. they said, well, i'm going to do it whether the women like it or not. i'm going to protect them. >> donald trump is doubling down on his gas lighting vowing to protect women. here is what vice president kamala harris thinks of that. >> the majority of americans believe that women are intelligent enough and should have and be respected for their agency to make these decisions for themselves about what is in their best interest and not have their government and certainly not donald trump telling them what to do. his latest comment, it is just the most recent in a series of examples that we've seen from him in his words and deeds

about he devalues the ability of women to have the choice and freedom to make decisions about their own body. >> with me now, the aclu's chief political advocacy officer and the best selling officer, the love of men, it's great to have both of you with us. i will start with you and your reactions. the claim that he will protect women whether they like it or not. of the vice president's response. >> i'm going to do it whether the women like it or not might be the most truthful thing he's ever said. he lies about what he does in private with women and what he's set of them in public for women's rights and here he is

actually slipping out the truth. we have to be clear here. donald trump has created a new caste system in america where pregnant women have become the untouchables. it's not my opinion, these are the words of an expert in the field, sarah rosenbaum who spoke to pro republic a that said these er doctors are refusing to touch these pregnant women so what we have is not only a handful of women, have thousands of women not being treated and going through one of the most dangerous things you could go through as a woman which is childbirth. it's far more safe than getting an abortion. we are talking about a few just in texas alone were two women have died of these abortion bans. we know the amount of pregnant women who are dying in childbirth has increased by 56%. these politicians are creating a hierarchy. the women who will birth the next generation of americans are at the bottom. >> the abortion -related

measures are on the ballot in these states and it's the first presidential election since roe v wade. what are the factors at play in the fight for abortion rights? you argued that it's about much more than who wins the white house. >> i'm actually speaking to from jacksonville florida where the aclu volunteers and staff and thousands of kinds of volunteers and staff across the state are getting out the vote for the ballot initiative here in florida. florida has a six week ban in place which is functionally a complete van which starts before most women know they are even pregnant. we are seeing an avalanche of these reproductive rights initiatives across the country. 10 this year alone. this is really the response of the american people to the terrible develops decision and the rights being taken from them. the american people support these doctors and these decisions in the hands of the patients and their doctors not politicians. that is why i think we will

have a restoration of the right to an abortion in states across the country on tuesday. >> is, before the break we talked about stories of these two women in texas who died under the state's strict abortion ban. why is it so important to pay attention to these horrific losses we are seeing now increasing that are the result of delayed emergency care? most people sometimes think that this is abstract but this has real-life consequences for the lives of women in this country day in and day out now. >> they really do and it counters the propaganda on the right that these abortion bands do not kill women when in fact, they do and it dispels the idea that certain assumptions work when in texas, there's an exception apparently

for the right of the mother but what we have seen this countless women not getting the exception. doctors not wanting to get involved because they could go to prison if they are involved in dealing with the complication which could be seen as them ending a fetal heart beat. so these exceptions are like the acknowledgments of policies and only exist to call the week men who need to control women's bodies for them to feel less bad or guilty about the consequences of their actions and consequences of their policies so it's important we tell the stories because when you go out there, i'm in pennsylvania talking to voters and they believe that these abortion bands actually protect life but what they are doing is ending life. >> as we mentioned it's going to be front and center on many of the ballot initiatives across the state and the consequences of donald trump

wins would be dire as we said earlier. deidra shuffling and liz, thank you very much. >> a quick reminder with early voting on your way scan the qr code on your screen for the latest state by state data on nbc news.com. we will be right back. ht back.

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get xfinity streamsaver with netflix, apple tv+, and peacock included, for only $15 a month. let's go boys. the way that i approach work, post fatherhood, has really been trying to understand the generation that we're building devices for. here in the comcast family, we're building an integrated in-home wifi solution for millions of families, like my own. connectivity is a big part of my boys' lives. it brings people together in meaningful ways. ♪ ♪ >> on this new power, former first lady michelle obama stands for vice president harris

in pennsylvania. both candidates are canvassing north carolina with >> umpire: in greensboro and vice president kamala harris in charlotte as she tries to change democrats' recent luck in the state. i ayman mohyeldin. let's do it . tonight, vice president, harris is delivering a dire warning to americans who might still be on the fence about who to vote for on election day. >> this is not someone who was thinking about how to make your life better. this is someone who is increasingly unstable, obsessed with revenge. consumed with grievance and the man is out for unchecked power, and in less than 90 days, is it going to be him or me in the oval office?

>> this comes as we see donald trump on defense after using what little time he has to deliver a closing message to attack former republican congresswoman liz cheney of wyoming. >> it is fake is in there trying to make something out of it and it's so biased and all i saying is she is a nutty war hawk you know she wants to go to war with anybody that moves in lose a lot of people, lose a lot of soldiers did but the nation in trouble. >> i want to claim the comments that sparked an intense backlash. here's trump speaking at an event in arizona with tucker carlson on thursday. >> she is a radical war hawk. let's put her with a rifle standing there with nine barrels. shooting out her okay, let's see how she feels about it you know when the guns are trained on her face you know they are all war hawks when they're sitting in washington and a nice building sanest g, let's send 10,000 troops right into

the mouth of the enemy but she is a stupid person. >> trump maintains he was simply criticizing cheney for being a war hawk. there is only -- arizona attorney general chris mays, slightly different interpretation. she has announced these as potential death threats against liz cheney. it is no wonder trump's remarks have been so divisive. he has regularly used violent rhetoric to talk about his perceived adversaries and this comes as we learning about secret plans for an overt taking the federal government. like most things in trump world this all leads back to project 2025. earlier this week a propublica released a report which uncovered shocking videos of private speeches delivered i this guy, russell vought. the chief project 2025 architect and president of the far right

think tank, the center for renewing america. >> we want the bureaucrats to be traumatically affect did. when they wake up in the morning we want them to not want to go to work because they are increasingly viewed as the villains. we want their funding to be shut down so that the epa cannot do all of the rules against our energy industry because they have no bandwidth financially to do so. we want to put them in trauma. we are trying to build a shadow office of legal counsel so when a future president says what legal authorities do i need to shut down the riots, we want to be able to shut down the riots and not have legal community or the defense community come in and say that is an inappropriate use of what you're trying to do. >> vote, who has remained a close ally of trump since leaving government went on to call these comments a response

to the marxist takeover of the united states and likened this moment in history to 1776 and 1860, you know, when the u.s. was at war or on the brink of war. this is the extreme framework vought and maga leaders are pushing over and over again and there is good reason to believe that this is much more than just rhetoric. back in august, probe public a documented previously unpublished training videos, training previous appointees -- future appointees in the trump administration and offering advice on how to change the way the federal government functions. according to a propublica review, 29 of the 36 speakers featured in that training video have worked for trump in some capacity and then there is everything we have heard from trump himself according to an nbc news review of trump's public comments. he has called for the criminal prosecution of 16 politicians, 15 law-enforcement military and intelligence officials just

since he entered the 2024 race. he has also threatened the prosecution of federal public health agencies, tech beginners and basically anyone who engages in what he has called unscrupulous behavior. the question is, could trump actually carry out unprecedented prosecutions? and be seen as asked current and former justice department and fbi officials, and a group of legal experts that same question and they all say yes. there are ways around the guardrails, even though doing so would shatter half a century of post-watergate norms in this country. for starters, a new president of poison about 300 -- appoint about 300 senior justice officials who ultimately run offices across the country. all 300 appointees must be confirmed by the senate that multiple former officials said they fear trump would install artisans were willing to do his

eating. according to abc news, one of the names on the draft list of people trump might nominate is u.s. district judge aileen cannon. she of course is the one who throughout the classified documents case against him in florida. also on the list, an official who backs claims of 2020 election fraud . you will remember that days before the january 6 insurrection, trump attempted and likely failed to install clark as the acting attorney general at the time. speaking of acting attorney general's, trumps hard-line advisers have suggested appointing a series of them since they would not require confirmation from the senate. under federal law, and acting attorney general conserve up to 210 days at a time. and it does not end there. one of trump's farther reaching proposals, schedule f calls for the reclassification of about 50,000 civil servants across the federal government. in

other words, they could be hired, promoted and fired at the whims of donald trump and his inner circle even if trump never took action on schedule f. officials said the likely outcome of this level of upheaval would be an even more extreme version of the chaos and legal battles that marked his first term. so, what is the big take away here? don't call donald trump potentially in a second term, a come back. let's call it what it is. it would be a revenge tour that trump and his allies have spent years planning and telling us about. joining me now to discuss this, molly jong-fast, host of the fast politics podcast. charles coleman junior, msnbc legal analyst and jason stanley, professor of philosophy at yale university. he is the author of "erasing his tree, how fascists rewrite the past to control the future." it is great to have all three

of you in person here. molly, your reaction to what is happening in plain sight? it may not get the national attention [ inaudible ] a lot of people thought after 2020 the trump champ there is over. they stop paying attention to the vought steve bannon of the world thinking the head dodged about -- bulletin now we are going back to these comments were there telling us how they want to remake the american government and their vision. >> project 2025 operates from the theory that the first trump administration was a hellyer because they were not able to remake the federal government the way they want to so a lot of the stuff you're hearing about is this idea of firing all of the federal employees, making them schedule f from the goal here is really to shrink the federal government, get rid of things like the department of education, which trump has mused about, and the epa and noaa and a lot of government services that are not partisan

-- scientific, et cetera. and then to get rid of really all the nonpartisan employees in the federal government. remember, there are tens of thousands of people who work in the federal government, and replace them with loyalists a part of it is really to make the federal government an arm of the trump campaign, to make the doj served the pleasure of donald trump and you will remember the supreme court last season gave him this very vague sort of immunity that he could use for anything he wants, and that is so unstructured that he really could just do anything with it. >> the scary part in all of this , as molly was saying, they went through the dry run from 2016 to 2020. they now have a blueprint and certainly a playbook. you have dug vought here talking about creating a shadow legal counsel dramatically affect bearcats, going after them. you know, everything trumpism infects becomes infested.

you look at his takeover of the republican party. without at some point the republican party would be able to withstand and stand up to him. that is not happened. he has completely infested the party with his ideology. it now has become a cult of donald trump and now he wants to do that to the federal government. >> yeah, you said the scary part . i think there are many scary parts here. i agree that it is a historical moment it is not 1776. it is 1932. this is just a perfect blueprint of national socialism circa 1932, but they are doing is replacement of all agencies by loyalists, by nazi party members, party loyalists, so you replace everyone. this rhetorical tech took of calling centrists democrats, kamala harris, joe biden,

suntrust democrats, marxist is exactly what the national socialist did get the idea that there is a marxist takeover of the united states is one of the more absurd ideas floating around today but what they're doing is targeting political opponents as national enemies. the first thing they did was target moderates and said they were dangerous marxist and in prison them and that is kind of the playback it looks like now. >> you hear sometimes people make these comparisons about the rise of the party meet -- party in germany and take over the government. they say oh, you're being hyperbolic.

then you have of course the controversial comments donald trump made about liz cheney, somebody who just to be clear, in his eyes, is his political opponent, and he wants to put her in the line of fire because of her policies. >> you know, the irony of that specific comment is that this is someone who claimed that the rhetoric around violence and politics needed to be ramped down after there were two assassination attempts on his life and here he is injecting the same vitriol right in front of his supporters. during your lead-in, used -- you use the words, don't call it a come back. yeah, you should call it a takeover. this is a takeover in plain sight and maga has now expressed very clearly and in very significant detail, exactly how it intends to do it . for a long time, a lot of us were listening to the ideology say well, how is this going to actually work? now it is right in front of you and there is no question as to what their game plan is. there are two things that come to mind as i think about this when you think about vought and

everyone else, i think the press have done a bad job of enabling everyone not round donald trump. the last time you had michael cohen, rudy giuliani, a number of people who already have the spotlight on them. right now it is important to understand that this for folks who are enabling donald trump are extremely dangerous, and have to have the appropriate amount of attention paid to them. the other thing that comes to mind as i think about this is regardless of the outcome, donald trump is not the last of his kind. he is the first of its kind and it is important that we understand, regardless of tuesday's outcome, this makes it imperative that we all dust off our civics and understand how the united states government is supposed to work because the only chance that we have to guard against some of these abuses and potential misuses of government is to understand where we have stopped gaps and try to really sure those up and enforce them as strictly as possible.

>> i guess the concern is that we don't have guardrails as strong as we thought we did going through this because we've never had a figure like donald trump emerge in our system, and to use charles' word, take it over from the inside like this. >> i think enablers of his have already set up a plan, and that is out of roger 2025 but even like the supreme court with thomas and the leader talking about using the comstock act to ban birth control pills, they have something sort of figured out, and i think we see a lot of that behind the scenes. look at the heritage foundation. roger 2025 is the brainchild of numerous republican organizations, so i think that is right. i do think one of the things about trump is that he tends to say the bad part out loud so he did talk about getting rid of the department of education and some of the stuff he really was not supposed to talk about but even you know, you had trumps head of i smack -- i.c.e.

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only if we cast more folks aside, let me tell you, i promise you they are trying to erase the truth of what has always made this country great. >> that was former first lady michelle obama just moments ago in battleground pennsylvania with a closing message for voters there. democrats are taking advantage of every moment leading up to election day as poll numbers continue to show a razor thin race between harris and trump. pennsylvania polling shows trump and harris neck and neck each at 49%. joining me live from west town, pennsylvania, julie sirkin. it is great to show you -- have you on the show. what are you hearing there? >> reporter: it is such a good question. i actually just was in erie county about 12 hours ago before my -- making my way to the philadelphia suburbs here today.

it is refreshing to see how many people want to make sure their vote counts. how many people were coming to the polling site to make sure that the mail ballots they had problems with were handed directly to somebody who worked there. they know how important battleground pennsylvania is, and so do the voters here in the philly suburbs. i spoke to one woman online who said she was a registered independent since she was 18 years old and the last couple of weeks she actually attended a rally for kamala harris and the rally for donald trump before coming here to see michelle obama. she decided to vote for kamala harris, and that is just one and a note of the microcosm we are seeing here of people, of independence, a small sliver of voters that the harris campaign and the campaign of donald trump thereafter and you see that with michelle up -- obama coming here tonight trying to get out the vote, especially those critical mail votes and of course appealing to women here in the suburbs.

>> julie, thank you so much. next, a new report about trump a.i.d.s. begging him not to self sabotage during his election. . get back to better breathing with fasenra, an add-on treatment for eosinophilic asthma that is taken once every 8 weeks. fasenra is not for sudden breathing problems or other eosinophilic conditions. allergic reactions may occur. don't stop your asthma treatments without talking with your doctor. tell your doctor if your asthma worsens. headache and sore throat may occur. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. step back out there with fasenra. ask your doctor if it's right for you. (♪♪)

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tonight, new bombshell reporting from the atlantic about donald trump trying to sew even more chaos during this campaign than what we have already seen. tim alberta reveals his staffers begged him not to give trump a nickname. another challenge for trump aides, keeping their boston check -- boss in check after he brought on jd vance. it was a vance staffer who convinced the vice presidential candidate to run with the false

claim that haitians were eating pets. the ex-president's advisers were reportedly bewildered but trump found it irresistible. that same vance staffer was also the mastermind behind booking the comedian that called puerto rico with leading island of garbage during a trump rally at madison square garden. my panel is back with me. you know, the take away from this new reporting is that trump is somehow restless. he is.. he's craving more chaos than what he has already sowed in the selection. trump wanted to call biden this name publicly, a slur, and then of course fans -- advances can spare is a theory against immigrants. >> trump has had great success by attacking norms of equality that underwrite a democratic culture. he's not wrong that if winning is all he cares about, then tearing people apart, you know,

ridiculing norms, showing that he is too powerful for these norms -- i won't go into a long excursus about plato's republic but plato says democracy will lead straight to tyranny because in a democracy, everyone gets the right to run for office. some people will be unsuited. if they do run for office, those unsuited people, they will split the people. say one group is an enemy, there is an enemy within and represent themselves as a protector of the people and then get elected and become a tyrant and so trump somehow intuitively knows the strategy. >> certainly he seems to be executing it very well, probably with the help of elon musk. what he has done very influential in this election cycle, not just because of the money, but because this is a guy who is now spreading disinformation.

you have the video of haitian migrants claiming to of voted for kamala harris. you have suspicion in georgia. what is your take on elon musk and how he is now contributing to this? >> what is so interesting is that for such a long time -- it talks about this in the tim alberta article. democrats are criticized for being too online and now it really is that republicans are so online. they read this right wing fever dream about immigrants eating people's pets, and they decided this would play well in a general election. a general election, when you need to grow your voter base. they decided they would malign haitian immigrants in ohio, and i think that is such a great example of how this sort of very online republican party does not quite get what they're supposed to be doing out there

and i would also just say jd vance ran 20 points behind mike dewine in his 2022 election and it is like this kind of stuff, people don't like it. >> it's interesting because common themes throughout this piece by tim alberta is that there are already people in trumps campaign who are a little bit disillusioned, some considering already does -- resigning. it's hard to imagine what you are really left with. it's hard to imagine. we saw it in 2016, those who have left and people who have distanced themselves from that era, the former generals, the john kelly's and now you're getting a smaller, more hard- line, more extreme group of people going to the finish line. >> that is a very scary thing and when you think about it, when you use the word, resign, in order to be someone who supports donald trump at this point you have to resigned from

the level of reality in terms of how things actually work for the petulance in this article is a reflection of the level of privilege and detachment from the consequences of your actions that you can simply not afford to have if you are the leader of the free world. he is someone, who at the point of having a lead in his campaign, he had joe biden down after this debate. he decided that it was probably a good idea to now use and engage a slur to describe this man and shrink his lead and compromise, if not sabotage his own candidacy for the white house. someone who was playing with that level of detachment and not worried about the consequences of his own chaos is not someone who should be pulling the levers of power. >> how do you get to that point ? how does donald trump maneuver in that space where he can segment certain parts of his fandom, certain parts of his

supporters, certain parts of his followers, keep them in these siloed information bubbles, and then detach them from the reality of what is happening? >> what he does is he gives messages that one group hears, and they just ignore the messages that obviously are not in their interest. for instance, donald trump intends a national stop and frisk policy. i'm not sure how many black male trump supporters are aware of that. each of these groups who supports him, there is something bad coming down the pike for them, because he has promised some other group something. so, there is an old saying about this. first they came for the communists and i said nothing because i was not a communist. then they came for the trade unionists. it is each group think so, look at that. he will get that agenda done.

maybe he will do a national fetal person had asked. maybe it will totally and abortion but what else is he going to do? then for his billionaire friends he's going to blow up the deficit to give tax cuts to billionaires, so people are just thinking of themselves and that one message he gives to the group. >> let me ask you about somebody who has been brought back into the campaign fold, somebody with a notorious past that he's got a temper. nonetheless she is back in trumps here. what kind of impact do you think that house because it is mentioned in the tim alberta piece. >> if you are a campaign with a woman problem the person you should bring in is corey lewandowski, because he really knows how to appeal to women and suburban women, no less. they are just out of control. at every point, they could've picked someone -- they could've picked a vice president.

they could've picked nikki haley. they could've won. they could have campaigned with nikki haley. >> she has now given the warnings that this campaign has become too grotesque with these rallies and the bro podcast he has been doing. >> at every point they could've made good choices and they made bad choices and hopefully democracy will survive because of that. >> let's hope so. some breaking news we have, we now have confirmation the vice president is going to be part of snl this evening. history-make an appearance for her. we will definitely be watching that, keep an eye on it for you, as well. we will pick up the conversation on the other side. . if i put a sheet of bounce on the finance guy, will it make him softer? bounce can't do it all but for better laundry, ♪ put a sheet on it with bounce. ♪

in the home stretch before the election, republicans have painted a disturbing picture of a potential trump term. for one, it would elevate robert kennedy junior to a key health role. the one man misinformation machine credited with helping cause of measles outbreak and now trump promised him control of public health agencies. trump pumped that up even more in a few rallies this week. >> robert f kennedy junior we have. he is going to work on health and women's health.

>> he's going to have a big role in healthcare, a very big role. he knows it better than anybody. >> again, trump really gets women after saying he will protect them weather the women like it or not. he is now topping a dangerous anti-vaxxer to be in charge of women's health according to a new report from media matters. rfk junior is also working in a conservative organization that wants to stop ivf, referring to it as evil and immoral. you know who should look into that? the father of ivf, donald trump. my panel is back with me. robert f kennedy junior apparently wants to ban fluoride now from all public water. what do you make of the fact that he wants to be in charge of women's health and children's health in this country? >> it is putting the stupidest person in charge of -- we just came out of a pandemic, like

give us a break. and elon musk had all these ivf kids, too. i mean, the fetal personhood ban goes after ivf and makes it so that you really cannot have ivf because ivf has these embryos that end up getting discarded and if you believe an embryo has the same rights as a fully grown child, which is what this band says, which is what the idea behind it is, then you can't do ivf anymore so you will ultimately have an ivf band which is totally insane. they are just giving up modern medicine because of religious beliefs. >> this is not an administration previously, the trump administration that was really hot on the science. they were working at the time during covid with some respected experts and trump was out there talking about injecting himself with bleach. now he wants to put an anti- baxter in charge of the most

complex, potentially, issues our country could face. >> these are not serious people. there is no way around it but i think what is interesting and cannot be underestimated is that they are finding a way to appeal to a particular part of the american electorate that they believe takes them very seriously. donald trump does not win by addition. he wins by a subtraction so to some degree he's able to leverage the support kennedy had among crazy anti-vaxers regardless of what hud does or does not happen in order to become president.

>> i think it comes down to control and power. at the end of the day we could put aside the specifics of what ivf is and what it means for reproductive health in this country but it is about government control, government power and putting somebody as deranged as rfk junior in charge of public health in this country -- i'm hard-pressed to think he would get confirmed by the senate but donald trump has shown a willingness to circumvent the procedures that are supposed to be part of the guardrails. you appoint someone, gets confirmed by the senate. trump is happy to have acting officials run the government for us on a 210 daily basis, rotate them out, bring somebody in more extreme, and keep the cycle moving. >> as a theorist of fascism, this is fascinating because this is paint by numbers both in the philosophy of fascism and the history, so in fascism, you have incompetence rewarded because it chooses loyalty over competence. this is stuff i grew up reading

in philosophy classes, but to watch it in real time, all the literature -- when you prize loyalty is your primary thing, especially as you get more and more unhinged and loyalists have to be more and more extreme, we are going to see an incredibly incompetent administration, and all fascist administrations, this kind of empty expertise authoritarianism always is deeply incompetent and kind of wild and it's flailing and that is what we are seeing. that is exactly what you see when loyalty trumps competence. that's what we're going to see in the commerce department. we are going to see people who believe the 2020 election was stolen making decisions for the american people and those decisions are going to be unhinged. >> speaking of rewarding loyalty, i want you to take a listen to elon musk, donald trump again has promised a role in his future administration if he is re-elected. i don't know

what the name of the government agency is, government efficiency agency or something along those lines. >> we have to reduce spending to live within our means, and that involves some temporary hardship but it will ensure long-term prosperity. >> quite the closing message there from elon musk and serving under donald trump. >> we heard mike johnson say, too, that obama care needs to be reformed like you know what that means. that means taken away. the irony here with elon, this is a guy who got rich on government subsidies for climate, now it is like we now need to cut your social security and medicare. a little bit of pain. they are upset about the deficit and so you know, they don't want -- you know, they want trump to be in office so

they can get those tax cuts, so of course the only answer then is to cut social services. >> all right. don't go anywhere. we have another round of conversation coming up. han is 22 years old. he's not just a pet, he really is a part of our family. knowing that he's getting good nutrition, that's a huge relief for me and my dad. (sings) old bean piglet head yes that is your name. if you saw his piglet head you would say the same. toot toot.

she is spending her campaign lying about what donald trump has said, what donald trump has done, taking it out of context and attacking her fellow citizens as garbage. this is not the way to close a campaign if you love this country. >> that was jd vance earlier today trying to tie kamala harris to comments made about president biden, who is of course not running for president. this follows a busy week of donald trump cosplaying as a garbageman days before the

election. >> this is in honor of trump and --, and joe biden. >> sons and megyn kelly joined in dressing up as literal garbage this halloween all in an effort to control joe biden. this follows joe biden addressing a comedian who made a racist joke at trumps madison square garden rally that backfired badly. he has since claimed that he was calling that particular trump supporter garbage, not all trump supporters but you can see where the trump campaign pounced on his remarks. if you think a president or someone running for president should be more careful while talking about a big swath of americans, he may actually disagree with, let me introduce you to donald trump.

>> it's not her. it's the people that surround her. they are scum. there is, they want to take down our country. they are absolute garbage. >> total piece of garbage. garbage. talking about garbage. garbage. talking about garbage. i would love to be nice but i'm dealing against real garbage. garbage garbage. she is scum. she is garbage. >> that add from the lincoln project, jason, what is your response to it? basically donald trump either does not know that his comments are recorded and can be played back and shared with the world but again, his basis probably siloed off. they're not going to see that maybe. donald trump is called this country garbage. he has called black people, jewish voters, anyone who votes for kamala harris needs to get their head examined. this is a person who has built an entire campaign on disparaging, insulting, attacking voters of the opposite side. >> to be fair, the democrats are running a campaign on not

doing that so they shouldn't do that but the media is screwing things up again by making this into a story, by making this nonstory into a story. of course it is a story that jd vance says the country is taken over by far left us, that russell vought says we are going to make people suffer and be afraid. all of these are stories. it is not a story that widen slips up and slightly uses a term that is totally normal on the other side. the real story is that the trump campaign is running on viciously attacking any democrat and saying they are an eternal enemy of the people to be dealt with harshly. that is the story. >> we have certainly covered the enemy within one donald

trump made that point. we are not immune to criticism, but we are also very aware that when he is made these comments in the past they've gotten rightful attention but nonetheless, and unforced error by joe biden probably caused some headaches for the harris campaign. having a debate about apostrophes is probably not what the harris campaign wants to deal with right now. >> what's interesting is that harris is flawless. >> she was asked about this, by the way, when she was tried to be goaded into -- she was like no, i'm not calling anyone who votes for donald trump that at all. >> she has responded to some of the dumbest questions i have ever heard, you know, and very gracefully and smartly, and she has also just explained her policy really well. i think she has been flawless and i think that trump world is very interested in twisting things around to make them, you

know, something biden said somehow harris is now responsible. i think really what happened at that madison square garden event, which i think many of us could have predicted, was that they had a lot of really explosive rhetoric. hateful, racist rhetoric and you know, i think that voters are pretty tuned in to this election and they saw it and they were like wow, this is not good, you know. >> it is also a sign, to molly's point, harris has been running a flawless campaign on the messaging, on the language that she has used, on the professionalism of her. she has done better than joe biden has in the evidence of that is that you have the trump campaign trying to make this about joe biden, who is not running in the race so as far

as you're concerned, joe biden can come out and say whatever the hell he wants to say and trump is trying to associate biden with harris. >> i think that is purely a sign of the fact that her margin for error is twice as high as donald trump says, and as joe biden's was and she understands that. her campaign understands that, and the double standard or the triple standard, if you will, that she is held to his something she entered the race keenly aware of. in terms of what is and is not the story, i think what is the story here is that when we see candidates engage in this, what it does is give permission for their followers and supporters to engage in similar fashion. the significance of that is that it is a commentary on the american or political economy to the point that now anyone who is in the middle is forced to choose a side because we have become increasingly more and more polarized because the vitriol goes higher and higher and we stop listening to one another. in donald trump's case, that is

something he needs to happen because he can't win without it so if you step back, you can appreciate the commentary this means about where we are politically and you should also be concerned about what it means for where we are going. >> all right, really appreciate you staying with us throughout the course of the hour and appreciate your time, as always. thank you for making time for us. a quick reminder with early voting underway across the country, scan the qr code on the screen now for the latest state-by-state data on nbc news.com. tomorrow night, come back for re-election coverage. i will be back at 10:00 p.m. eastern and stick around for an election special next, with the weekend team. you will see a sneak preview of an exclusive interview with second gentleman doug emhoff, his flexed interview before election day. have a good night. get back tg with fasenra,

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