okay, very quick reminder before we go. [ inaudible ] nicolle wallace and many more you see on your screen right there, plus steve kornacki will be breaking down all the results at the big board all night long. the gang's all here starting tuesday at 6:00 p.m. eastern. i will be back here tomorrow night at 8:00 with a big show on actual election eve. but for right now, stay where you are because there is much more news coming up on msnbc. >> [ music ] it is a battle for the

swing states between vice president kamala harris and former president donald trump rate we have michael moore here to talk about it and more. don't forget, control of congress is also up for grabs tuesday, and texas voters have a chance to dump ted cruz. at the closing message from someone who knows donald trump better than all of us, his nephew, fred trump the third is going to join us alive. i am a campoamor to new york, let's do it. >> [ music ] there are just two days remaining until what could be the most consequential election of our lifetimes. nbc news is out with its final poll, which shows both vice president kamala harris and donald trump tied nationally. but it features harris leading

on issues like abortion, bringing the country together, and looking out for the middle class. notably, voters are also demonstrating more faith in harris than trump on the matter of protecting our democracy. and this idea is central to harris's final pitch to voters in these final days before the election. here is what she told reporters just today in michigan. >> the systems that are in place for this election in 2024 and have integrity, they are good systems, and the vote of the people will determine the outcome of this election, and everyone must know that their vote is their power to determine the outcome of the election, and a vote will count, it does matter. >> meanwhile, donald trump's contempt for democracy was on full display during a rally in pennsylvania earlier today. again, here is just a part of his chilling message. >> they are fighting so hard to steal this thing.

we had the safest border in the history of our country the day that i left but i shouldn't have left, i mean, honestly, because we did so well. to get me, somebody would have to shoot through the fake news, and i don't mind that so much. i don't mind. >> now, the trump campaign released a statement after those remarks, which feel more like gas lighting than anything else, referring to the media, they write, "he was actually looking out for their well for -- welfare far more than his own." his rhetoric lays bare a difference between our two political parties, if you want to call them that. in the new york times, "we are used to elections pitting democrats against republicans. this election pits guardians against counterrevolutionaries. harris surrogates and supporters are united not by sheer policy

goals, [ inaudible ]." the court reasoned harris's coalition is noticeably disparate among groups of people. as her running mate tim walz bags, we have got bernie sanders, cheney, and taylor swift on the same ticket. leaving tell us left out for a moment, what to bernie sanders and dick cheney [ inaudible ] meanwhile, the trump coalition is chaired by a distrust and desire to take control of american institutions. klein writes, "the trump list coalition isn't conservative at all. it is counterrevolutionary. believes the leftist revolution has corrupted american institutions, and the counterrevolution, which may even require violence is necessary." that's why the trump side has elevated people like elon musk, who has been using his social media platform and trump rallies

to pedal anti-immigrant election voter fraud conspiracies, and rfk jr., who built his entire failed presidential campaign around a whole host of conspiracies, including baseless theories about axioms and antidepressants. and in today's republican party, you don't get to keep your seat at the table unless you are willing to defend the biggest conspiracy of them all. >> you think it's okay to spread false rumors about fraud and undermine the integrity of the election, regardless of what happens? >> the liberal media has done a better job of spreading misinformation than any -- >> oh, come on. do you believe the election will be free and fair? so, does that mean that you are confident that if donald trump loses, i know you think he is going to win, but let's just play this out, if he loses, that he will concede? >> i am confident that he is going to win without any question, and yes, i do believe that we will have a fair election. we will honor the results and

we will celebrate the 47th president being donald trump. >> imagine just for a second, imagine how different things would be if the power players within the republican party cared less about winning and actually more about america. imagine if the gop had turned never trumper after the "access hollywood" tape, after the january 6th insurrection, after we learned about the cecconi and project 2025 , instead of the party went all in, endorsing racism, xenophobia, sexism, endorsing violent rhetoric and acts of violence, endorsing a backsliding of our democracy, and doing everything to help trump get another four years in power. enabling trumpism to seep even deeper into the pores of america and live on far beyond 2024. joining me now is michael moore, academy award-winning filmmaker and host of the michael moore podcast. michael, it is great to have

you back on the show. you know, i don't want to go back to 2016, but you obviously predicted at the time that trump would win. last month, you wrote trump is toast. you know, we're almost 48 hours out from perhaps seeing our first results, but do you stand behind that today? >> oh, even more so. i just keep wondering -- the gift that the trump campaign keeps giving us, i don't think they realized -- i don't think they really are in touch with where the majority of americans are at. the majority of americans do not want this divisiveness, they don't want a threat of violence. we are okay to disagree with each other, but that's where it ends. we go to vote, who wins wins. half the time, i have been very happy with who has won, and the other half of the time, i haven't been. and we move on with our lives. what you just played here, i hadn't heard trump utter those words. i had heard somebody say that

he said them, but to hear him say that about they can shoot through the media, the assassins, go ahead and fire, and all those other things you just played, it is like they really believe that the average, normal american wants to hear that? they actually believe that we don't like emigrants. we are immigrants, we are all the children and grandchildren and great-grandchildren of immigrants, unless you are african american or unless you are amongst the first peoples that were here, we are all the product of immigrants, and we love our parents and our great- grandparents and the people who got us here to this great country. and to talk about immigrants in this vicious, vile way -- and you think of all the things that we have and we have given the world, and the anger and hatred towards muslims and arabs -- steve jobs -- i mean,

none of this ever gets discussed. maybe i'm just a trivia nerd, but he is born of muslim parents. his parents were arab and they put him up for adoption, they had to put him up for adoption, and he was adopted by the wonderful jobs family. but we wouldn't have -- i wouldn't be talking to you maybe on this device right now in this way without this offspring of a muslim or an arab. and i think most americans, we get down on our knees and thank god that we are the children of immigrants, that we built this country with immigrants. and the fact that we have somewhere -- depending on what numbers you want to believe in, somewhere between 9 million and 11 million jobs right now that we do not have enough people to fill. we have upwards of 11 million unfilled jobs, and as we are told, we have maybe 11 million immigrants who aren't here

legally. geez, doesn't that just -- if you have a heart, if you have love in you, if you're proud of this country that was built by immigrants, doesn't somewhere in your head that we have 11 million jobs i think a lot of people are like me and i think they are going to be very surprised. i'm talking about the trump people and the maga nation, by what is going to happen on tuesday. not only do i feel -- to answer question 10 minutes later that i feel the same way that i felt a few weeks ago that trump is toast, absolutely. i feel it more now. i don't want to say it too loudly as our work isn't done, we all have to make sure we get people to vote. i have asked everybody to think of three people that maybe they know at work or school or whatever that aren't going to vote, to get them to the polls,

drive them to the polls, take them to lunch afterwards, have a party after work, after you have taken the office to go vote. we have work to do in these 48 hours, but having said that, i'm very optimistic and hopeful. and frankly, i know people watching this say, mike, how can you say that? we have all these crazy people and trump stearns and maga nation, and what i say to them is obviously, i have a lot of personal, deep faith in my fellow americans. >> yeah, it is a very important sentiment i think a lot of people are definitely counting on, the goodness of americans, to see this through. let me just talk about your statements again for a moment. i want to talk about the last time you joined us back in july, when biden was still running. you had this to say about his support for the israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu, take a listen. >> the fact that he would decide to hug netanyahu, to go there and tell him, as the tape you

just showed, in november, just people wanting a cease-fire, that is it. no, he goes, no. this has, i think, really rattled people in my state. >> that was back in july. give me a sense of what you anticipate happening in michigan on tuesday. >> well, when biden was running there in the early summer, support for biden-harris, which was at 70% four years ago, they got 70% of the michigan arab- muslim vote, was down to 12% because of biden endorsing, embracing, and enabling the slaughter of tens of thousands of civilians. i don't know anybody watching this, whether you are irish, whatever group you are part of, if you are jewish, pick your group, and your tax dollars were going to kill the cousins, the relatives, the friends, the neighbors of where you came from

, what do you think the people of detroit and dearborn are going to do with that? well, the good news is biden stepped aside, kamala harris came in, and that 12% support of biden-harris jumped to over 43%. that is good news, but it is still quite a bit behind the 70% they had four years ago. so, we are estimating in michigan, possibly we need 40,000 votes of the 40,000 arab and muslim americans -- they are not going to vote for trump. he already had one third of the vote, he will get one third of it this time, not anymore. they haven't moved to trump. they are either because of their grief not going to vote, or they are going to vote, which is what 75,000 michiganders did for 2016, 75,000 michiganders in democratic leaning districts decided to go to the polls, and

i think a lot of muslims and arabs are going to do that on tuesday, and vote for every candidate down ballot, and they left the top line, the president line blank, not hillary, not trump. 75,000 did not. we just need a few thousand of them to this time say -- and don't expect muslim and arabs to come pouring in and do that. i have told you and others, i don't feel it is right for me to say to you that you have got to do this, i am a white guy. it would be like a white guy going to alabama in the 1960s and telling black people, you have got to vote for george wallace because he is the democrat and we have got to get lyndon johnson elected here in '64, so you have got to vote for -- no white person would go down there to alabama to tell them, you have got to vote for the people supporting the lynching of your relatives, of your people. so, let's stop that. we are going to win michigan. i believe we are maybe going to

eke it out, but that's because there are 2 million nonvoters there, and for the last two months, my friends and i and a group i put together, we have been getting out. what i call the non-voter party, which is our second largest party in the country, get another thousands of them to vote, get another thousands of them left the top line blank in 2016, and maybe we can make up for the votes of the people that cannot in good conscience bring themselves to do this, but there are enough of us left to make up for that and to help kamala harris over the finish line. >> we are almost out of time, about 30 seconds left, but do you think if donald trump were to lose on tuesday, it is going to be the end of trumpism or is this going to be the new hallmark of the republican party going forward? >> great question, it will be the end of trumpism if we have a huge vote. this is why i am begging people in california and new york,

places where you already know the vote, idaho, don't think that your vote doesn't count, it really counts. we need to run up the popular vote as high as possible. one thing trump understands is crowd size. so, biden beat trump by 7 million last time. we've got to be trump by 10 million, 17 million, 20 million this time. a huge turnout. and people voting for harris. to send a message to him and to the other people in maga nation, we don't want fascism, we want democracy. don't think of running again. grow up, be an american, and do the right thing. you can disagree with us, but no more of this. so, i'm hopeful, if we have that large turnout for harris, then that is exactly what will happen. and i would just end by saying this, that i think is a political scientist, i have seen on msnbc before dr. rachel, who is a wonderful political scientist, and she

just put out her election analysis today for tuesday, and she said that the trump campaign has made a horrible mistake in thinking that after dogs, we have got to go with the mail vote. well, that is not going to make up for the tsunami of women who have been out at early voting and who are going to be there on tuesday, and trump says we control the weather. i want him to keep thinking that, because i think what we have created is a large, large, huge turnout of female voters. they are going to save this country. thank god for the women of this country, and listen, we have had 250 years of nobody in the white house who is a woman. that is 250 years of gender apartheid. it ends this week. what a great week to be alive,

that's what i wanted to say, and thank you, ayman, for who you are and what you do. >> thank you, michael moore, always appreciated, great to have you on this show, we will definitely check back with you once the election is over. thank you, my friend. next up, anxiety and arizona voters are dealing with an onslaught of election to nihilism. we are going to go live in phoenix. >> [ music ] >> reporter: stays. but if you want even more benefits, you can choose a medicare advantage plan like the ones offered at humana. our plans combine original medicare with extra benefits in a single, convenient plan with $0, or low monthly plan premiums. these plans could even include prescription drug coverage with $0 copays on hundreds of prescriptions. plus, there's a cap on your out-of-pocket costs. most plans include dental, vision, even hearing

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>> [ inaudible ] government working for us. >> i will tell you, trump is doing everything he can to make you not believe in this country. >> [ inaudible ] don't let them tell you this country is not great, it is the best country in the world and we have to keep it that way. >> that is just some of the star power we saw at a get out to vote event for kamala harris in the battleground state of arizona today. this comes as more than 2 million voters have already cast their votes in that state, and many are fearing political violence, election day with good reason. this is where ballot boxes have been burned and a man was arrested for shooting at a dnc building. let's go live now to phoenix, arizona where we find nbc news correspondent liz gray, she's joining us now from maricopa county, and specifically the tabulation election center

there, one of the most guarded and safest places in that state right now. we know you recently spoke with the county election director, liz. how are they working to protect voters from this kind of intimidation and the counting process? >> yeah, hey, ayman. the county is saying that this will be the safest ways to be on election night and arizona, which is very different from four years ago in 2020. and you talk about the fortress year, that's what it feels like part of the county spent $10 million over the last four years to basically fortify this building. two layers of fencing, multiple lines of security to get inside. some poll workers and election workers decided not to come back because of that, but the county has been able to get a good amount of people still to work. we want to show you inside, ballot counting is underway, and what your alert at right now is that working in pairs, one republican, one democrat, and they sit together in civility, and review any ballot that have been flagged because of any irregularities, and together,

they, to a consensus with what to do to that ballot. all of this is showing you the county's efforts to be totally transparent about the election process. take a listen to what the elections director had to say. >> maricopa county has worked for years to let people know how our election system works. arizona in general has a lot of laws on the books that requires that transparency. we have taken that and we have gone to new steps. we do tours. our cameras are streaming 24 seven, even when there aren't ballots in the process. >> yeah, right now, anybody around the world could log in and watch a live stream of this room here and several rooms around this building. they are trying to be transparent as possible to ward off any claims of ballot fraud into tuesday, and they are warning that it could take several days to get results,

just like it did in 2020 and the recent elections, because it could be so tight here in arizona. >> with all the misinformation and disinformation out there, transparency is going to be key. it lives alive for us in arizona, thank you as always. in 2020, joe biden came closer to winning texas than any democrat since jimmy carter. what could kamala harris pull off this tuesday? we are going to talk to colin allred about that and his race against senator ted cruz and more. stay with us. >> [ music ] remove contact lenses before using miebo. wait at least 30 minutes before putting them back in. eye redness and blurred vision may occur. what does treating dry eye differently feel like? ♪ miebo ohh yeah ♪ for relief that feels

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with new downy comfy cozy. it not only combines softness and scent. it breathes life into your laundry. in two days, republicans might just lose their vice grip on the lone star state. colin allred and incumbent republican senator ted cruz are locked in a tight race with colin allred trailing ted cruz by just four percentage points. both candidates have been crisscrossing the state to deliver the closing message to texans. colin allred has attacked ted cruz [ inaudible ] watch.

>> i think it is remarkable that a united states senator for 12 years has nothing to say about what he has done for anyone. he laughed when i was talking about what happened on january 6, even though he was hiding in a supply closet and i was prepared to defend my colleagues. going around the country lying about the election. [ inaudible ] ted cruz was hiding in a supply closet. that's okay. that's okay. i don't want him to get hurt by the mob. the point is there shouldn't have been a mob. >> if he pulls this off, this upset, it would be the first statewide win for democrats in three decades. six years ago, democrats missed that win by a hair. that o'rourke only lost to 10 cruise. another razor thin race for the white house in the backdrop. joining me now is the

democratic nominee for senate in the state of texas, congressman colin allred. it is great to have you back on this show. a local dallas fort worth texas reporter was on our network this week and says he has talked to some voters who are put -- pro trump, and yet still voting for you. what does that tell you about how texans feel about senator ted cruz, who has been in office for over a decade? >> thanks for having me on, ayman. this is a very distinct choice for texans. we have had 12 years of seeing that ted cruz has only been about himself, who never gets anything done, except for one thing. there is one accomplishment that you can take actual credit for, which is his abortion ban that texas women and families are living under, and it is having horrific consequences, and we are seeing the results every single day, or stories are coming out. and when we beat ted cruz and we make roe v. wade the law of the land again, it is going to be a win for freedom here in texas. i want everyone watching this to go to colin allred.com, help

us turn out the vote in the final 48 hours, and let's go win. >> let me talk to you about the abortion issue for a moment, because texas, as you mentioned, has this draconian texas abortion ban on the books since 2021. we have highlighted it on the show. there have been reports of about at least two women who have died under this band. you have 100 ob/gyn's in the state releasing a letter saying the steps were preventable and they are urging state leaders to change the abortion laws. as senator, how would you address this very serious issue? >> i just want to say, my wife and i have had two boys here in dallas in the last five years, and i cannot imagine -- i can't even take myself to that point of imagining how we would have felt or how i would feel if my wife is denied care for 40 hours, which is what happened, for 40 hours while infection

set in, because a politician like ted cruz thought he knew better than her or her doctor. that's how she died. and in another case, an 18-year- old who had to go from her baby shower to three different emergency rooms. the first two turned her away. the third one, she was in organ failure, so they finally accepted her, and it was too late to save her life. we have seen the maternal mortality rate has skyrocketed here, but we haven't had the stories. so, this is now an issue that we have to address, and i am so thankful for these ob/gyn's to come forward and the texas women who come forward, they had made this something that cannot be ignored, and when i am in the senate, we will make sure we go back to roe, we will trust texas women and trust texas doctors. >> i wanted to ask you about whether or not it is wishful thinking that democrats a dream of turning texas blue. there was a new usa today opinion column that read, "

sorry, liberals, it will not happen this year and likely not anytime soon." why has it been so hard for democrats to make gains in a deep red state like texas, and will this be the year that it changes? maxwell, as a fourth generation texan, i love it when non- texans tell me about my stay. listen, we have been a state where change has happened rapidly at times, but we have been stuck in this rut, and we are coming out of it. you just mentioned in the lead up to this about how close we came to beating 10 degrees back in 2018. when we beat them here, it should be such a big surprise. this is the same progression we have seen in other states as well. but it is also true, this is not about turning texas blue, this is about beating ted cruz and replacing it with somebody who cares about 30 million of us. this is a very specific race for our state. this is not about any of those things, this is about that we have had a senator for 12 years who has not done the job, and

we don't have to have one that goes to cancun when we need him most. i will get things done and i will actually deliver for texas families. >> congressman colin allred, greatly appreciate your time this evening, forward to talking to in the days ahead. take care. next up, a teahouse race to watch for tuesday night. montero jones is fighting to get back to capitol hill. the former congressman joins us live. >> [ music ] >> [ music ] but this pillow is so me. yes, that's because you brought it. no no no. come on y'all! this is exactly what i was wishing for. perfect swap. my turn. what the fudge? now that's a holiday classic. just like you. you got a place for that? i've got something in mind. ♪ wayfair, every style, every home. ♪

all right, keep an eye on new york's congressional races tuesday, especially the 17th district race between michael lawler and former democratic congressman mondaire jones. democrats need four seats to reclaim the house and are eyeing lawler's seat along with three other vulnerable republicans in the state of new york.

while new york is a deep blue state, the landscape is somewhat shifting. take a final emerson college poll before the election that shows lawler leading the jones by four points in recent weeks. the stakes go beyond typical party lines. u.s. involvement on israel's wars in gaza and lebanon [ inaudible ] lawler has doubled down on attacks, framing himself as a more unwavering supporter. surprisingly, despite his ties to trump, who ridiculed jewish biden supporters and align himself with multiple holocaust deniers, lawler secured the endorsement of a key jewish community and the district just days before the election. with me now is democratic nominee for new york's 17th district, former congressman mondaire jones. great to have you back on the show. what you make of this recent endorsement? key hasidic group deciding to endorse mike lawlor, mike lawlor part of the trump world.

the trump world definitely has had a lot of anti-semitic affiliation, comments in the past, very dangerous rhetoric that has come up, but how do you explain that endorsement? >> i was proud to have the endorsement of the new square community when i ran in 2020 and was originally elected to represent this district in its early form, before redistricting. here is what i do know. when donald trump blamed jewish people for losing just a few days from now, mike lawlor, rather than push back on that dangerous, anti-semitic rhetoric, went on television on at least two different occasions and defended donald trump. so, he is no champion for the jewish community. of course, donald trump the longest-serving chief of staff, john kelly, is now told the new york times that donald trump has repeatedly praised hitler. we saw in a recent debate between me and mike lawlor, mike lawlor just sort of dismissed that. of course, it is not the first time that somebody in donald trump's close orbit has said that he praised hitler.

so, obviously my opponent is not the champion for the jewish community that i have been as a steadfast supporter of the jewish community in the face of rising anti-semitism that we have seen happening since 2016. >> also, how do you explain that he got that boat? i'm going to read the quote specifically. trump said jewish voters who backed biden should have their head examined. mike lawlor attended that obscenely racist at madison square garden rally where he attended puerto ricans. and offended palestinians, jewish people, women. mike lawlor is still standing by this guy, and yet, the hasidic jewish community is endorsing him. how do you explain it? >> the hasidic jewish community is diverse, people are going to come to their own conclusions. there have been splits as recently as 2002. what i'm going to continue to do is stand up against anti- semitism as we see it, whether it is on the far left or within the republican party, with the leader of the republican party,

routinely, donald trump, traffics and anti-semitic tropes. every day, he is questioning doug emhoff, questioning his jewishness. obviously what you said about jewish people, waving them for his loss in just a few days from now, and so many other things that are really part of the public record. i'm going to continue to make my case, i have got a very clear record. we have got a diverse community, a diverse jewish community, a diverse community racially and ethnically within the 17th congressional district, and people are increasingly familiar with my record on these subjects. >> the let me ask you about your own trajectory if i can for a moment. you ran, you had a seat. do you read -- attribute that lost to redistricting? >> absolutely. >> your own journey within the democratic party has somewhat alienated you. do you still get the support you want from the left wing of the democratic party, progressives, and the mainstream democratic party? >> i am so proud of the fact

that we have got a broad coalition of people in the 17th congressional district, that includes the many republicans who i run into in recent days and say, mondaire, i am a lifelong republican, but i am voting for you. that happened in recent days, i am proud of that kind of support. of course, i hear about it from my volunteers, who are having conversations with people all throughout the district, some of these conversations are coming back to me and i'm so excited about it. this election is the most important election of our lifetimes. this is not an election about democrats versus republicans. this is about whether you believe in democracy. this is about whether you believe in women's reproductive freedom. this is about whether you believe in and will do something to combat climate change. all of these things and more are at stake in this most existential election, where donald trump is somehow now more unhinged than he was back in 2020. the guy says he wants to terminate the constitution, pardon insurrectionists who nearly took my wife on january 6, and be a clear dictator on

day one. we have to be clear about that but in terms of the democratic party, which is a diverse party, as you know, i am proud to have the support of centrists. >> of the congressional black caucus withdrew their support from you, though, after you, what they say, but trade jamaal bowman for not supporting him or standing by him with supporting james latimer. do you regret that decision given what has played out in the polls question mark x0, no. let me tell you something, the people in washington who are playing pundit and allegedly withdrawing support from me that wasn't significant support in the first place, are not making an impact in the 17th congressional district. what we are seeing make an impact is a conversation we are having with people at the doors, at the rallies that i am hosting. obviously, i'm really proud of the fact that people, as they find out about my republican opponents extreme legislative voting record, are increasingly alienating and are coming to me. our data shows we don't have an issue with progressives.

there is not an issue with people thinking i am not progressive enough in the 17th congressional district, i can assure you of that. >> you said that he would not condition aid to israel based on what israel is doing. you are vying to be a member of congress, to be a lawmaker. would you support in forcing american law on israel? there are reports that israel and american weapons are being used to kill palestinian civilians in gaza. would you support the enforcement of the leahy law on israel? >> let's be clear, what happened on october 7th was the worst assault on jewish people since the holocaust. and israel has an unequivocal right to defend itself and its right to exist, and it is in a very dangerous neighborhood, whether it is the threats from hamas or hezbollah or iran, who is funding a lot of this activity, so let me just say that at the outset. obviously, american law applies to everybody. so, who would have it applied to them?

so, too, for international law. i don't think that anyone should be exempt from that, but i don't think that is what's happening here. >> mondaire jones, good to see you, thank you so much, we will speak to you on the other side of the elections. fred trump the third wants you to know something about his uncle before you vote, he is here next to tell us about that, don't go anywhere. oh, yeah. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty. ♪ i brought in ensure max protein with 30 grams of protein. those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks! —uh. —here i'll take that. [cheering] ensure max protein, 30 grams protein, 1 gram sugar and a protein blend to feed muscles up to 7 hours. ♪♪

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the harris campaign has decided to keep it fully positive until the end. a senior campaign official tells msnbc that her east lansing rally is the first since harris became the nominee that she did not mention trump by name. what a statement about the moment we are in, about the toxic form of politics that donald trump has normalized in this country and someone who has seen trumps a vile nature first and is my next guest, his nephew, fred trump iii. he is featured in a new ad put out by a disability rights group. a watch. this is my uncle donald and this is my son william. my dad died in 1981. donald was named my trustee. i needed to talk to him about williams fund. he said your son doesn't recognize you, let him die and move down to florida. william loves music, he loves to swim, he loves to eat. if donald knew what william, maybe he would have a different

appreciation for those who had disabilities. >> with me now is fred trump iii, nephew of former president donald trump, he is also author of all in the family, the trump's and how we got this way. fred, it is great to have you on this show, i'm sorry it has to be under these circumstances, but that was such a powerful ad. how did it feel hearing that from your uncle about your son in 2020 when you met him? >> well, as i say, i thank you again for having me, my first reaction was no, donald, he does recognize me. and what i think your view is -- donald never met william, never asked to meet william, so how he could make a comment like that, how one person could say that about another human being, but about your grandnephew, is beyond me. but it is not the first time. he said something to me in the oval office when i was with a group of advocates called equally alive, and when they all left the oval office, i was

with donald and he said, the cost of those people, they should just die. talking about a group of people that are human beings that need our help and our support, which is why, whoever wins this election, i am in progress of starting a nonprofit called williams journey, which i think will be impactful for such a large group of people, 60, 70 million strong. >> you certainly know donald trump more than most of us will ever know, certainly on kind of a more intimate level as a relative. but when you hear what you said to you and when you hear the rhetoric that has come out of him in recent days, even today about not wanting to leave the white house or the comments he has made about shooting through journalists, or even comments about liz cheney, what do all of those points, from the stuff you have personally experienced and the stuff you are publicly hearing, what do they reveal to you about your uncle? >> you know, he always wants to

win. there is no doubt. look, i like to win, too. as i mentioned to somebody, i am an athlete, i am a business guy, i love to win. but there is a point where giving up your character for the sake of winning and to turn to such vile comments and thoughts is just -- well, it is embarrassing to me personally as a relative. >> you have said in the past that generally six, you have certainly met with him many times, but you said henry six was a real turning point for you, as it was for many americans who saw that and attribute what happened that day to the rhetoric of donald trump, but what scares you the most about a potentially second trump presidency? >> i think what scares a lot of people. there are no guardrails anymore. just think of the people that he is now surrounding himself

with, there is no general kelly, there is no general madness, there is stephen miller. tom and rudy giuliani coming back. that should scare anybody. >> so, you think he is -- i mean, this is the kind of debate i think a lot of americans have, which are some are trying to say he is not as bad as he is portrayed in the media to people that talk about his tendencies, the people who served under him, who say he is a fascist to his core, they're either vengeful, they hate him, they don't know him, they don't like him, you are saying to those people, no, these are all true descriptions of your uncle . >> i think they are true descriptions, i'm sorry to have to say that. and as i was quoted in an article, is it really worth the risk to think that he is just saying this to ramp up his base

and that he is not going to go forward with it? i don't think it is. and were mentioning in the lead up about kamala harris, i watched that saturday night live thing a couple times with her and mayor rudolph, and i actually smiled for the first time maybe through this entire election cycle. it was just a happy thing, it made me laugh. i don't think anyone can laugh with donald around. >> yeah, so, what is at stake in this final 48 hours? what is the message that you would say to american people, to someone who might be out there, undecided, watching this right now, trying to wait whether or not donald trump is someone they should entrust with their vote? >> i will have to give a shout out to my mom who was born and raised in kalamazoo, michigan, so i know michael moore was on before. she left me a message, and other than donald's sister, elizabeth, my mom has known donald longer than anybody. she was there when donald to me and my father, when he hatched a plan to take my sister and me out of my grandfather's will,

when you said what you did about william. she left me a message saying i was talking to an old friend of mine from wisconsin. great midwestern values. please, do whatever you can, fred, to ensure, to let people know the real donald and the danger that really does exist. >> and what is that real donald if you had to describe him in one word? >> to me, i'm tired of it. i think the country is tired of it now. i will disagree with michael, i don't think it is going to be a landslide popular vote difference, he is not going anywhere for a while. >> you think even if he loses, donald trump and trumpism will still be a presence in our country? >> yeah, i do. >> fred trump iii, thank you so much, i really appreciate having you on the show and sharing your insights with us. it is a historical moment, i think a lot of people need to have some kind of insight in his final couple of days before they have to make this -- >> i'm sorry i have to say that

about a relative, but the country is more important. >> thank you so much, really appreciate it. thank you for making time for us this evening. be sure to come back tuesday at 6:00 p.m. eastern when rachel maddow and our msnbc team kick off our special election night coverage, including steve kornacki at the big board, breaking down all the results as they come in in real time. you can catch the ayman next weekend saturday at 7:00 p.m. eastern. in the meantime, follow us on ex and instagram at ayman msnbc. in the meantime, i'm mondaire to new york, have a good night. >> [ music ] >> [ music ]

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