assemble itself, listen closely today to the stirrings of a new coalition willing to listen to what voters had to say last night and prepare to fight for our democracy anew. unlike eight years ago the threat donald trump poses to our institutions is a feature of this third campaign for the president and something people in every corner of civil society must rumble with today. "new york times" puts it like this today. quote, america stands on the precipice of an authoritarian style of governance never seen in its 248-year history. after defeating vice president kamala harris, who would have become the first female u.s. president, trump will bring his own historic firsts into the white house. the only president convicted of dozens of crimes, accused of dozens more, and twice impeached. he will begin his second term bound by few political norms after a campaign in which he seemed to defy every one.

that is where we start today with some of our most favorite experts and friends. here with me at the table, joy reid, host of "the reid out" right here on msnbc. my wingwoman into the hours last night. my other wingwoman, former u.s. senator, host of msnbc's "how to win 2024" podcast, claire mccaskill. my dear friend chief political columnist, host of the podcast "impolitic" for puck msnbc national affairs analyst john heilemann's here. i'm going to apologize in advance for any interruptions because as soon as the vice president takes the stage we'll go right to her. but your thoughts today. >> so you know, i think one of the things that is the least helpful and that i've sort of started to hear the stirgz of out there, are the dissection of the kamala harris campaign. because i think it's clear from the results that when you look at the states that she won, we just saw washington state where she won, where she won handily, and places and constituencies that she won, people who are more secular, black women overwhelmingly, all but 20% of

black men. black men ticked up 1% from the last time from the same time that voted for donald trump. that's not a change. the places she made inroads, slight inroads among college educated white women who went a little bit more her way. it's clear that given the fact that he won the popular vote, which is something that hasn't happened since your former boss in 2004, there's nothing kamala harris could have done, there's no other sort of tweaks to her investment strategy, of her billion-dollar campaign that was picture perfect in almost every way but for a few things you could quibble with, not allowing the uncommitted folks to speak at the convention will be looked at as maybe that could have helped her in michigan had she embraced palestinian rights supporters more. but there is no tweak she could have done that would have stopped her from being a black woman. and we know that this country

has had a history of not supporting the freedom and rights of women. and even some women not supporting the freedom and rights of women broadly at the national level. and we know that this country has a deep history of anti-blackness. and when you look at the two constituencies that went hardest, that swung hardest for trump, it was white men, who he with knew that's how they were going to vote. it was white women, who still voted despite the deep and open disrespect shown to them by donald trump and especially by j.d. vance, and it was latino men, who swung hard toward donald trump. so i think what we've seen is we had essentially an argentina election where you also had an election that was a hardcore surge of men, of men who were disgruntled with the liberalizing of society and men who want a more authoritarian form of government, more control and less social liberalism.

there's nothing she could have done to change the way those men think. going on joe rogan wouldn't have helped. none of the things people -- none of it would have changed because she is the thing that they don't want. a black woman seeking power. >> i totally agree, having been on winning campaigns and losing campaigns, that when you sit there at the -- i don't know, maybe that's another norm trump has killed. but you used to go with both sides and sit there. and the campaign that won would get all the accolades and the campaign that lost would have to sort of confess to all their sins. and the truth is usually somewhere in between, right? there's often something structural afoot. it seems -- and again, i'm in the early stages of trying to learn myself from what was told. but it seems that there may be some insurmountable perception and reality of economic rage that was beyond people's personal household strain and

stress and agony of the things that cost their family more but also deep despair about kids that couldn't find work or kids that have moved back home or neighbors that were -- you know, it feels like it was widespread and potentially insurmountable. >> yeah. i think donald trump -- turned out he knew our country better than we did. and i'm not sure i agree with a lot of what joy said. but i think a lot of this is not the candidates, it's the country. and i think donald trump understood that what he could do -- and i don't think his mistakes were mistakes. i think his mistakes were strategic and turned out to be right on the money. because i think our party -- i grew up in a party where we were the underdog. we were for the little guy. we are now the elite. we are no longer seen as the party for the little guy. he was seen as the party for the little guy. he was seen as the ultimate

disruptor. and yes, the edges were very rough. but in everyone's own minds they sanded them down to the point of acceptability. and it as it turns out, there's a lot of craving in america for fear and anger. a lot of craving for fear and anger. driven by lies. but nonetheless, what this election result showed, especially if you look what's happened in the blue states, new jersey turned out to be relatively close. new york we lost huge ground. if this is not a gut check moment for the democratic party to realize that we need to get back to meat and potatoes and fighting like hell for the little guy -- and by the way, he'll probably help us here because i have a feeling he's going to burn the house down. i hope he doesn't. i hope he doesn't do real damage we can't recover from. i've got to tell you, joy, those uncommitted folks, you know, the first call he had this morning with bibi netanyahu. they're going to level gaza. >> absolutely. and the west bank. and not only level gaza but

they're going to take over the west bank. >> it's so frustrating to me that people were seeing this as something that wasn't an existential moment in our country. can the democratic party recover? yes. is this the end of the world? no. but if anybody thinks this is about her doing something different in her ads or not doing this, they're not paying attention. there is something fundamentally changing in america about how the democratic party is perceived. >> and iky just say very quickly, though o', the co-founder of uncommitted went on our air with our friend, our dear friend andrea mitchell and supported her in the end and people from the movement were absolutely supporting her. wajahat ali went way out on a limb. palestinian rights supporters and the prominent ones, the woman hon was in georgia the state representative who was not allowed to speak at the convention voted for her and endorsed her. so it was not the uncommitted movement writ large but there was enough damage already done.

and remember, you had tiffany trump's husband, who was lebanese american, lobbying in dearborn to try to pull arab and muslim american voters. but in the end you definitely had a push toward her at the end. it just wasn't enough. i wanted to throw that out. >> before we go to the event, john heilemann, if i interrupt you i apologize. you've got an ear to the ground for the folks who study data for a living. i feel like you were getting some of the most on edge gut checks in the hours before the election. the conversation you and i had monday afternoon. what are you hearing in terms of what is better understood today than 24 hours ago in terms of the elect ratd? >> there are so many things to say. one, just making our way through here, one, the reality of our economy over the last 30 years has been -- we know this story. the polluteocracy has all the gains. and if you're in the middle of the middle you're living in a

place of constant anxiety bordering on rage even in good economies. the gains have not been distributed to the middle class, the lower middle class even the upper middle class. the vast share of the gains go to the super rich. they were like this in 2016 too. how did you explain eight years of barack obama followed by a bunch of people who voted for donald trump and voted for joe biden four years later? that's a swing set of voters out there. those people are like nobody's fixing my problems. so they vote for change. they vote for obama he disappoints them. they vote for trump he disappoints them. they vote for biden he disappoints them. and now they're back to trump because they didn't think kamala harris represented change. but those people are all living in a stew of anxiety and it's rooted in reality. like their actual standard of living and what they have to offer to their children, their grandchildren is not the american dream that people once fantasized about and once was real in the post-world war ii era. to claire's point about what the democratic party's perceived as,

democratic party is now the party of college educated, the college educated professional class. it's not just perceived that way. it is. a largely coastal elite party with some of them well meaning some of them progressive but many of them condescending. college educated talking nose gits as they would call them in britain. and donald trump, the re-alignment that's happened to the party now is the republican party is comprised of the working class and the non-college -- what we call the non-college voters, right? and there are -- it's more non-college white than it is non-college black certainly but now it's apparently a lot of non-college latinos. but that is the main dividing line, the sorting in our politics now is not primarily on the basis of race or income, it's on the basis of correlation with college education. but it's education is how our whole coalitions are now divided. that's a huge thing democrats have to deal with because there's all this cultural baggage that there's a huge amount of cultural positivity

attached to college and a huge amount of cultural negativity if you attach to college if you don't go to college. i think the realities of the macro things, i said this yesterday on the air, that if you won all seven states there's one really easy answer to this, which is she was the sitting vice president. even up to today her boss is joe biden. and fairly or unfairly he's sitting there with his 38% to 39% approval rating in an economy that people, again, fairly or unfairly don't think they're not happy with. and the wrong track is 75. those headwinds are huge for anybody. if she had come through a primary and had the kmabs to introduce herself to america over the course of two years the way she differed from biden, the way she would have a different kind of governing philosophy, those headwinds would still have been maybe enough for her to lose the race. but to put her in the position of getting the nomination in august and having her be a relatively unknown figure compared to donald trump,

compared to joe biden, compared to barack obama at the end of a year and a half of campaigning in 50 states or george w. bush at the end of a year and a half of campaigning in 50 states. man, the degree of difficulty i said yesterday donald trump had one thing to do once she became the nominee. beat the hell out of her. she had two things to do. fight in the ring with him and then also go around to america and introduce herself. that is an unfair fight and i'm entirely with joy. and anybody who's going to -- well, she had one salad in this town hall. give me a break. she was the vice president to an unpopular president with a wrong track number and this incredible high degree of difficulty. she got her convention speech, she knocked it out of the park. she raised a billion dollars. she crushed it in the debate. and she closed like a stud. those are the big things. and she did all those things. and yet he still won the popular vote. and so it's about all of this stuff. it's about what's happened to the democratic party. it's about the really

unfortunate position that she was put in having to come in that late and take on this incredibly high burden. imagine if there had been a democratic primary, a normal democratic primary where she and gretchen whitmer and all the rest the people fantasize about had been able to fight it out for a normal primary process and had gotten to introduce themselves to the country and done 12 democratic debates and get well known enough. i don't know anybody in professional politics who doesn't think given donald trump's weaknesses that that nominee, whether it was her, whether it was kamala harris or any of those other people, wouldn't have been the favorite and would have probably been the prohibitive favorite against the terminally unpopular donald trump, even with all the cultural stuff built in. but under the circumstances, man, it's a miracle she got this close. i mean, given what she had to take the job. >> yamiche alcindor joins us. she's at howard university. you know, yamiche, michele norris kind of brought to life how meaningful last night was or

could have been if the vice president had delivered an acceptance speech last night. that is not the history that was made last night. but still today a historic moment. she will deliver her concession speech at her alma mater. take me inside the mood there. >> that's right. yesterday was really i think a tough day for the vice president, of course, and for so many of her supporters who had gathered at howard university. at the beginning of it was really jubilant and people felt confident. but by around 10:00 as it was clearer and clearer that former president trump, now president-elect trump was making gains and overperforming in key areas, in key battleground states, people really started to get sad. people really started to say this feels like a funeral. people started talking about 2016. and then vice president harris made the decision to send out a high-level aide in cedric richmond to tell everyone to go home and she would come back and talk tomorrow. so today i've been talking to campaign officials and they tell me that she has been working on her concession speech but that

she hadn't spent a lot of time on her concession speech because she was thinking she'd be delivering a speech about uncertainty and people waiting for the vote totals. this is a speech she had to put together today and just a lot of hand wringing and questioning now in the democratic party about where they go from here. nicolle. >> i went back, yamiche, and i looked at -- i watched hillary clinton's speech. and it's an iconic hillary clinton speech. it's an iconic moment in american politics if you're a woman. it's an iconic moment in american politics if you were a prognosticator who got that one wrong, who thought that after he said megyn kelly was bleeding out of her eyes and her ears and you know where that women wouldn't vote for trump. it's a phenomenon that we're still living with, right? actually, i think megyn kelly campaigned for donald trump this time around. but this opportunity she has today to lay the foundation for the next fire that will burn through the opposition to donald trump, who isn't just as john

heilemann said deeply unpopular but running as an anti-democratic style figure, what opportunity does she see in her remarks today to inspire the next movement against autocracy? >> well, in talking to officials the vice president feels a couple of different things. her team feels a couple of different things, which is one, they want the speech to really hammer home and underscore the idea that she believes in the peaceful transfer of power. campaign officials have told us that when she had that conversation with president-elect trump conceding and congratulating him for his win that she talked about the peaceful transfer of power. so she really does expect to continue to talk about that. but she also of course is going to say that this is now hard work for the democrats. and she's been saying all along on the campaign trail that hard work is good work and that a next generation of americans, she wanted of course for her to be part of one of those leaders, but the next generation of americans can move forward and move the democratic party forward. so she has now in this moment to tell people your hearts are

broken, it's very tough, i understand that you're feeling like we could have made history yet again this glass ceiling remains unshattered, but it's now time to continue to think about your communities, to think about your loved ones and to move forward. and i've been talking to a number of democrats who tell me that even in the last few hours that they pivoted already to thinking how o'do we put up a fight against trump, how do we push back against mass deportations or more abortion restrictions or climate change issues or even taking away vaccinations. some people are worried about what's going to happen now with the fda and covid vaccines. there really is this sense in the democratic party, well, of course there is the blame game going on, there is also this sense to say okay, the work is to take care of their communities and the vice president i think is going to be leaning into that. >> joy, we may only have a couple moments. your final thoughts before she takes the stage. >> you know, if you go through as we're putting up the returns still on our screen, it struck me to just really quickly look at the states with the highest

rates of college-educated voters because there were three groups in our exit polls where kamala harris actually improved her numbers. high income voters she went up by 11. secular voters plus 7. and college educated white women, which was the group of white women that she did the best with. this is a country where i think people presume that because america's the sort of land of opportunity that most people go to college. there's only one place where 50% or more of americans go to college and that's washington, d.c. the highest rated states are going to sound very familiar to you when you look at the places she won. massachusetts, colorado, maryland, new jersey, connecticut, vermont, virginia, new hampshire, new york, minnesota, washington, illinois rhode island, california, i could go on. i think to a really great point that john heilemann made and that yamiche and all of us are making, is that the democratic party really appeals to secular voters, to college-educated voters for whom student loan forgiveness is relevant, to voters who are more aspirational and sort of made the asplace. that's part of the reason black

women are so connected because black women are getting into higher rates of college achievement and college entrance even though the bill ackmans of the world want us out the door. and that's one of the reasons we've seen this striving among black voters that has been acleefd and the great achievements that we've had put us in the democratic party and secular voters who don't want a theocracy in the democratic party and national security. people who care about things like national -- it is a security to care about national security. if you just care about grocery bills you don't care about that. unfortunately, kamala harris came along at a time when the united states is still in its redemption era. post barack obama. and we've tried to do reconstruction before and it ended the same way with great disappointment for those who want to see a more perfect union and a lot of work to do to try to rebuild a multicultural democracy it's very hard to do

and we still haven't done it. >> it's interesting joy mentions national security. one of the closing messages wasn't from either campaign, it was from the voice of a four-star general whose own son died on the battlefield in afghanistan. general john kelly, who described donald trump as meeting all the technical definitions of a fascist but perhaps more importantly affirmed and confirmed he believes the men and women who died serving this country are losers and suckers. he becomes the nation's next commander in chief. >> it will be very interesting to see how the military interacts with donald trump in his second time in the oval office. the leadership in america's military is very strong. i had a front row seat and came to really respect how you move up in the military and the skills that are honed as you rise in leadership in america's military. and the ethos that the military

is run by civilians and the ethos is engrained in all those leaders. there's some outliars. some of them were campaigning for donald trump, some retired military folks. that's going to be a rub that will be really interesting for us to watch and cover. how does he try to utilize the military and how does the immunity decision play in and how does the military react to orders that might come their way that america's military have never been asked to do before. it will be a little scary frankly. but let's be clear about this. all of the people around trump who rejected him, who knew him best, all of them, they were lumped in as the system. they were rationalized as well -- he didn't know when he got there the first time who were the good guys and the bad guys. he knows now who the good guys and bad guys are. he got a lot of bad guys around

him and he fired them because they were incompetent. because that's what he did on his reality tv show. he fired them. all of that quasi-seen as part of the system. this is such a middle finger to the system. it is such an almost cathartic hey, we don't care. he wasn't prosecuted, he was persecuted. it wasn't about respecting the rule of law. it was about using the system against somebody who's out there trying to disrupt and change things better for us. that's what these voters think. they believe it in their gut that he is their savior in terms of disrupting the system. and the sooner we realize that's why he got this big red wave, that's why my friends in the senate are struggling to get it across the finish line today and many of them have fallen, that's why we're going to have the biggest mandate for the

republican party in my lifetime but the biggest mandate for i achange of government we've seen in my lifetime. >> men have been the story. i'm turning to you not to defend that. >> good luck. >> i've married a couple men. i like men. what did the democratic party miss about the alienation men felt in this era of wokism and equality. why was it conveyed or received around the kinds of men trump targeted in his final two months of his campaign in what sarah longwell called the manosphere, the barron trump recommended podcasts. why did they feel so alienated from the democratic party? >> well, i think that there's a little bit of -- there's certainly a lot of

oversimplification of this topic given there are tons of college educated men standing side to side with their sisters and there was a reason why michelle obama went on the campaign trail and gave some of the most powerful rhetoric i've seen in the entire cycle directed at men knowing that they were right to be activated around the subject of reproductive rights and women's health. i saw her in kalamazoo, michigan. her speech at the convention was incredible and that speech was on the subject of women's health as blunt and powerful as anything i saw in the whole four-year cycle. as i said. there's a chunk of men -- it's not a one size fits all strategy. >> correct. >> there are definitely in the category mostly of the men who donald trump has feasted on electorally the category of non-college men, particularly non-college educated white men, this is not new this notion that they feel there's an undercurrent of economic disadvantage in that and that they feel as though they are

constantly hectored and talked down to and condescended to, even though they might not always love donald trump they're looking for a champion. joe rogan -- [ cheers and applause ] >> good afternoon. good afternoon.

good afternoon, everyone. good afternoon. good afternoon. thank you all. thank you. thank you. thank you. so let me say -- and i love you back. and i love you back. so let me say my heart is full today. my heart is full today. full of gratitude for the trust you placed in me. full of love for our country and full of resolved. the outcome of this election is not what we wanted.

but hear me when i say the light of america's promise will always burn bright. [ cheers and applause ] as long as we never give up and as long as we keep fighting. to my beloved doug and our family, i love you so very much. to president biden and dr. biden, thank you for your faith and support. to governor walz and the walz family, i know your service to our nation will continue.

to my volunteers. to the woll workers. the way we ran it over the 107 days of this campaign we have been intentional about building community and building coalitions, bringing people together from every walk of life and background. united by love of country with enthusiasm and joy in our fight for america's future. and we did it with the knowledge that we all have so much more in common than what separates us.

i know folks are feeling and experiencing a range of emotions right now. i get it. but we must accept the results of this election. earlier today i spoke with president elect trump and congratulated him on his victory. i also told him that we will help him and his team with their transition. and that we will engage in a peaceful transfer of power. [ cheers and applause ] a fundamental principle of american democracy is that when we lose an election we accept the results. that principle as much as any other distinguishes democracy from monarchy or tyranny. and anyone who seeks the public

trust must honor it. at the same time in our nation we owe loyalty not to a president or a party but to the constitution of the united states. [ cheers and applause ] and loyalty to our conscience and to our god. my allegiance to all three is why i'm here to say while i concede this election i do not concede the fight that fueled this campaign. the fight. the fight for freedom, for opportunity, for fairness and the dignity of all people. a fight for the ideals at the heart of our nation.

the ideals that reflect america at our best. that is a fight i will never give up. i will never give up the fight for a future where americans can pursue their dreams, ambitions and aspirations. where the women of america have the freedom to make decisions about their own body and not have their government telling them what to do. we will never give up the fight to protect our schools and our streets from gun violence. and america, we will never give up the fight for our democracy, for the rule of law, for equal justice, and for the sacred idea that every one of us no matter

who we are or where we start out has certain fundamental rights and freedoms that must be respected and upheld. and we will continue to wage this fight in the voting booth, in the courts and in the public square. by treating one another with kindness and respect. by looking in the face of a stranger and seeing a neighbor. by always using our strength to lift people up, to fight for the dignity that all people deserve. the fight for our freedom will

take hard work, but like i always say we like hard work. hard work is good work. hard work can be joyful work. and the fight for our country is always worth it. it is always worth it. to the young people who are watching it is -- i love you. to the young people watching it's okay to feel sad and disappointed but please know it's okay. on the campaign i would often say when we fight we win. but here's the thing. sometimes the fight takes a

while. that doesn't mean we won't win. the important thing is don't ever give up. don't ever stop trying to make the world a better place. you have power. you have power. and don't you ever listen when anyone tells you something is impossible because it has never been done before. you have the capacity to do extraordinary good in the world. and so to everyone who is watching, do not despair. this is not a time to throw up our hands. this is a time to roll up our sleeves. this is a time to organize, to mobilize, and to stay engaged.

for the sake of freedom and justice. and the future that we all know we can build together. like many of you know i started out as a prosecutor and throughout my career i saw people at some of the worst times in their lives. people who had suffered great harm and great pain. and yet found within themselves the strength and the courage and the resolve to take the stand, to take a stand. to fight for justice. to fight for themselves. let their determination be our

charge. and i'll close with this. there's an adage a history yarn once called a law of history true of every society across the ages. the adage is only when it is dark enough can you see the stars. i know many people feel like we are entering a dark time. but for the benefit of us all i hope that is not the case. but here's the thing. america, if it is, let us fill the sky with the light of a brilliant, brilliant billion of stars. the light of optimism, of faith, of truth and service.

[ cheers and applause ] and may that work guide us even in the face of setbacks toward the extraordinary promise of the united states of america. i thank you all. may god bless you. and may god bless the united states of america. [ cheers and applause ] >> vice president kamala harris in her concession speech to donald j. trump, the president-elect there, saying to her supporters across the country and those gathered at howard university do not despair, roll up your sleeves, organize, mobilize and stay

engaged. joy reid. >> i am so -- emotional. the reality is miss shyamala came to this country like my mother did. it's one of the things when i interviewed vice president harris we talked about, both you are o'mothers came here in the 1960s as immigrant and miss shyamala raised her an extraordinary daughter. this is an extraordinary woman. and i'm sad for the country that they missed out on the opportunity to see how far she could go because this is someone who was given nothing at birth. she wasn't born with $400 million in the bank. she climbed her way to success, both to that prosecutor's office, toe that attorney general's office, to that vice presidency after battling joe biden and like eight other people in a primary, got to be vice president of the united states of america, this black

and asian american woman. shyamala raised a bad girl, man. and i'm proud of the race that she ran which was almost picture perfect. she raised almost a billion dollars. she did everything right. and the last thing i'll throw in here is she spoke specifically to young people and she said do not ever stop trying to make the world a better place. don't let anyone tell you that something is impossible just because it has never been done before. she spoke to young people. and i will note, she said that because it was young people who supported her the most strongly. it was 18 to 19-year-olds who gave her 55 to 46 a victory. if it was just the young, if it was j the people who will inherit this country, she would have won. if it was just millennials, 51-46, the people who right now are struggling to, you know, buy a home and afford their lives and really have the biggest economic struggles, because let's be clear, it's not the people who delivered trump, which is generation x, my generation.

they got a little coin in the bank. they just want i atax cut. they are not the people who are struggling. it is the people claire described are those millennials, like my kids. i have a z and i have millennials. they can't afford their lives. we still have to help them. they're trying and they are striving. that's the people who are struggling. they took a chance on that lady. they had the faith in the future to say that this black and asian woman could lead this country. that's why we need to bet on the young. my generation, generation x, the people who grew up on wwe and hulk hoan and donald trump did this. they looked in the face of someone who said i want to be a dictator on day one. we did. we did this to our kids. our elders, our seniors, 65 plus, 50-49 in her favor. so they washed either way. but our generation has to really take a long hard look because we're not the people struggling that claire described. it's the young people we've now

connell demand to mass deportation, that we've now condemned to i afight for reproductive freedom and reproductive rights. it's not us. it's the young people at howard university who believed in her. i love the fact she spoke right to them and said despite all of this keep fighting and she's fighting from a good place and we as a country will fight from a good place because these young people they have -- >> message received. >> message was received. >> since we've been on the air nbc is able to project the vice president kamala harris has prevailed and carried the state of maine. there it is. magic music. kamala harris projected the winner of maine's three of four electoral votes. yamiche alcindor, this may not be a speech she planned to deliver or she spent much time writing but she clearly knew what she wanted to say. the light will always burn

bright as long as we never give up and keep fighting. i mentioned earlier i went back and watched hillary clinton's concession speech in 2016. i was a part of writing john mccain's concession speech in 2008. they're big markers. they set the tone for how the party that comes up short with the voters of this country regroups. and she seemed to do everything in her power to push the fight to the groups that joy is talking about who very much chose her and preferred her. and to make clear that she'll be in the fight with them. >> that's right, nicolle. what you might not see on screen when you're looking at the speech head on is that this was a crowd that was overwhelmingly young. this is a crowd that was overwhelmingly emotional. people were crying. at one point people were shouting "we love you." people were always wearing a lot of sunglasses. you could tell people had been up crying. and what the vice president was trying to do was hammer home the idea that even though she's conceding this election she's not conceding the fight and that people need to understand that

they still have power in this moment, that if you are someone who was backing her, someone who felt like donald trump was going to usher in a dark phase in american society, that you still have the power to find joy but also to find purpose in the work ahead. and it was really interesting she was talking about the fact that she is not going to give up the fight for equality, for justice, and she was really i think trying to tell people i hear your heart broeck, i'm there with you, i feel you, i understand you. and as someone who's covered her now for several years i can tell you that was a very sad vice president harris. she was being strong. she was delivering the speech she came to deliver, but she was someone who you can also tell was very, very upset and really understanding the emotion of the moment. so this was really a speech that really did i think get at the tone of this crowd here. and i want to just point out she says sometimes the fight takes a while but it doesn't mean that we don't win, that we don't give up and n. trying to make the world a better place. so i think she was also trying to give a generational message.

she was pitching herself as part of this next generation of leaders and she was now talking to the youngest among us, the 18-year-olds that are just starting their lives off saying you can still have power in your life. so i really think that she was trying to make sure that she was consoling people but also giving them a mission and a purpose here, nicolle. >> that mission and that purpose, claire mccaskill, will determine -- are you okay? >> i think i'm okay. >> tell me what you're thinking. >> well, i'm so proud -- i'm so proud of her. i don't think people realize how hard it is to get to where she was. as a woman getting elected d.a. is not easy, guys. people don't trust women to be in charge of making decisions about life and death and crime and being frankly a supervisor in some ways over police. her fighting through the primary thicket of california politics

to become attorney general, really hard. this is really hard stuff. for her to be selected as vice president after what i think she would tell you was a very disappointing presidential race where i think she kind of lost her footing and was listening too much to consultants frankly and wasn't -- didn't really exude who she was. and then to be vice president and step into the most difficult situation in the world where she had to be completely loyal to joe biden and respectful of the fact that he had chosen her but yet maneuver -- i mean, such political skill, it is just inspiring. people who don't understand what she had to do to get to this moment. and so i'm just very proud of her. >> heilemann, i don't want to --

i want to always be able to articulate the strength of donald trump's victory without ever sanitizing the crassness of his message. and so it is vital to share with our audience, whether they are ready to hear it or not, the sweeping victory that he had last night. we must never sanitize or leave out of that sentence that he ran on using the military against the enemies within. he is boasting about the hand-picked justices who overturned roe vs. wade. he said he would protect women whether they liked it or not. he called nancy pelosi the b word. his vice president called vice president kamala harris trash the day before yesterday. what has prevailed is almost a perversion of our politics and

of message sending and almost symbolic attachment to a movement that is as claire said an f you or a middle finger to the establishment and the elite. but there are a whole lot of women in this country i think who feel like collateral damage because the truth is propublica has just started its extraordinary body of reporting about the fatal aspect of being pregnant in america in donald trump's post-dobbs america. and those stories won't go away. they will only become more of a flashing red light. and the truth is right now the conversations women have in hallways and on colleges is about what they would do if they got pregnant and didn't have access to abortion health care or if they were pregnant in their 30s and 40s and it was not viable, where would they go, who would take care of them. and that is a reality and that is behind a lot of the emotion

that women and men fear and feel too today. >> another thing happened yesterday in the election, which is that everywhere that abortion rights were on the ballot we again learned that to the extent that these have been because of roe v. wade being taken away unfortunately the states are now in charge. i think one of the most inspiring things in our democracy has been watching red states starting with kansas where committed voters, activists, others have gone to those states and said this is a pro-life state. not now. we're going to go and fight this fight. in kansas it was the first time, this is a prolife state. there was a lot of polling and a lot of things to suggest that that was -- and then they rigged the election. and set it up in the summer and did everything they could to make it hard for the pro-life position -- sorry, for the pro-choice position to prevail and yet it not only prevailed it

prevailed easily. and you looked at that and said a bunch of people who get to work and go out and fight the fights that need to be fought they can win them. and that's been true in basically every state that's come up. that's not to say it should be like that. it's not to excuse the repeal of roe v. wade. not at all. but we are where we are and what has been inspiring is watching not just women but women and men and everybody who believes in reproductive freedom to going out and fighting these battles one by one and they keep winning them. and i think that is -- those battles lie ahead but the track record suggests they can be won -- >> even in florida. >> didn't meet the threshold. 57%. these are turning out to be encouragingly winnable fights. and the reason i think that's so relevant is that that's what we're in for now, is a bunch of fights. i will say that -- i want to say this carefully. i sort of was always -- i hate

the fact that you can become president of the united states and not win the most votes. i think it's a dumbass way to elect people. he think you should have a democracy where if you have the most votes you get to be president. and the idea we have an electoral college that allows people who don't wib win the majority of votes, it's b.s. we should fix it. i think one of the problems -- the thing that let a lot of liberals off the hook was the argument trump wins in 2016 through the electoral college loophole. and so a lot of people could say hey, you know, he's not my president. he's not legitimate. he didn't win the most votes. so i'm not going to -- i'm not going to really respect this presidency. and the respect is the wrong word, but there is something that is good for us in the clarity of him winning the majority, winning the popular vote, because people will now have to say this is what the majority of voting age -- this

is what they wanted. and that tells you the scale of the work that needs to get done. america's always changing. it's malleable. next time around there will be another election and you can win that election. but it's nice to -- previously you could kind of say he never won. he never won more than 47%. he now has been able to say -- who we are and what we are and what the fight should be and the minds that need to get changed if you want to make a better country. >> and there's a reality we have to recognize in saying all this. there is an unhooking of roe v. wade and what donald trump did from this issue. in montana he won by 20 points in the same election they codified abortion rights. in my state he won by i think 17 points yesterday. and missourians voted.

the very first overturning of a complete abortion ban occurred in missouri. there are thousands of people across america that go to the top of the ticket and go donald trump's just fine but by the way, he was wrong on reproductive rights and we're going to fix it in this state. we think they're all hooked together, nicolle, and clearly they're not. and that is one thing we've got to figure out because the only reason we're having to do this is because of him. >> and there's one other thing i think we should reckon with as well, is the withdrawal of interest in democracy sort of writ large. because in our exit poll the number one issue was democracy. but donald trump got 3 million fewer votes than he got in 2020 and kamala harris got 15 million fewer votes than joe biden. what we're talking about is smaller and smaller numbers of people making the decision for everybody else. and on the issue of reproductive rights, to your point in the states you're having those decisions be made to protect abortion rights. but again, overall if donald trump decides to enforce the comstock act those things won't

matter. right? the comstock being this 19th century law that was supposed to be an anti-obscenity law that says you cannot send abortive agents through the mail and pornography. and if you were to enforce it you couldn't send a "playboy" magazine through the mail and also couldn't send mifepristone, which would essentially legalize abortion because medication abortion would essentially be illegal because you couldn't send it through the federal mail. he doesn't have to pass a national abortion ban through the congress. they don't want to lose their midterm races by doing it. he could just do it by having robert f. kennedy jr. enforce it. and that again would be people my age, our age enforcing that against the people who said no. it's those women 45 and under who would be the victims of the decisions they didn't make. and young people are such a small percentage of those who turn out. so to me part of the work of our

democracy is getting those people 44 years old and under to understand why they have to vote, because they could have had their way if there were more of them. and there were so many more of them available. they've got to outvote their parents. because their parents are not necessarily protecting them. >> i want to bring into our conversation someone who's become a familiar face and friend. victor martinez radio host and owner of the spanish language radio station la mega. you were so important to our understanding of this sort of 11th hour gaffe at donald trump's madison square garden rally where a comedian described puerto rico as trash in the middle of the ocean. and i know you heard a lot of feedback. but i wonder where you place sort of the timing of that and the impact in the final tally in pennsylvania and across the country. >> right where i'm at in allentown, pennsylvania where

the majority of the puerto rican community live, it had an impact. allentown voted for, or the puerto ricans in allentown voted for kamala harris. in that sense i can say it had an impact. in the state as a whole with the puerto rican community. unfortunately, that wasn't enough. as far as the latino votes in general it was the latino men. it was the latino men who decided they were going to vote for donald trump. and i will dare to say it's the latino man who wouldn't want a woman president. you and i have had this discussion before. i have audios from latino men who were calling my show telling me that they wouldn't vote for her just because she was a woman. and that is unfortunate but that's part of the latino culture. right? the latino, the man is the one that's the provider and we're the boss and we still unfortunately have a lot of latinos with that mentality

where the woman belongs in the kitchen. that is a reality of the latino male chauvinist culture. and i think that's exactly what happened. >> victor, how do you get them back if you're part of the democratic pro-democracy coalition? >> again, they were willing to vote for joe biden. they were just not willing to vote for kamala harris. so i will say listen, the democratic party needs to make sure that they regroup, that they look for someone young, vibrant that can make the case just like joe biden did, but unfortunately as far as the latino men i don't think at any time in the future they will vote for a female president. that's sad to say. i'm a latino man. i supported kamala harris. but i can tell you, i heard it. i brought that to your attention. i brought you audios of men calling my show and telling me oh, no, no, no, she won't be

respected. oh, no, no, no, there's no way she can handle the job. and i would argue with them on the air and i would bring examples of other female powerful leaders in the world. and they seemed not to want to hear it. >> you are a gift in helping us understand. i am grateful to you. and you have to stay. you're stuck with us now. hotel california. you can check out. you can never leave. part of the family. >> i'm here. anytime. >> my thanks to you, victor. to you, yamiche. to my dear friends at the table. joy reid, claire mccaskill and john heilemann. still to come for us, much, much more on all of this. including trump's return to the world stage. we'll look at how our allies plan to work with him, around him this go-round. all those stories and more when donald trump -- when donald trump. ha. when "deadline: white house" continues. after a quick break. don't go anywhere. a quick break. don't go anywhere. so, what are you thinking? i'm thinking... (speaking to self) about our honeymoon. what about africa?

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while i concede this election, i do not concede the fight that fueled this campaign. the fight. the fight for freedom. for opportunity. for fairness. and the dignity of all people. a fight for the ideals at the heart of our nation. the ideals that reflect america at our best. that is a fight i will never give up. >> hi again, everyone. it's now 5:00 in new york. vice president kamala harris delivering her concession speech just in the last hour. powerful messages for her supporters. do not give up. the fight is not over. >> to the young people who are

watching, it is -- i love you. [ cheers and applause ] to the young people who are watching, it is okay to feel sad and disappointed. but please know it's going to be okay. on the campaign i would often say when we fight we win. but here's the thing. here's the thing. sometimes the fight takes a while. that doesn't mean we won't win. that doesn't mean we won't win. the important thing is don't ever give up. don't ever give up. don't ever stop trying to make the world a better place. you have power. you have power. and don't you ever listen when anyone tells you something is impossible because it has never been done before. you have the capacity to do

extraordinary good in the world. and so to everyone who is watching, do not despair. this is not a time to throw up our hands. this is a time to roll up our sleeves. >> the new reality of the donald trump presidency 2.0 is not just something for all of us here in the united states to contend with, to adjust to, the entire world is preparing for donald trump's second presidency as well. global leaders will soon have to face is america's leader, a man who has made very clear his affection, his affinity, his agreement on policy and style and tone and tenor and tactic with the world's autocrats. he has displayed publicly that he can be easily and completely swayed by their flattery. he has dug deeper into his isolationist policies. and he has signaled he may not

honor america's alliances. and he's done it all out in the open. let's not forget the warnings from those who already served with him. here's trump's former national security adviser, john bolton, talking about trump's view of nato. >> he doesn't understand the alliance. he sees it in terms of america providing defense contracting services to a bunch of ungrateful europeans who don't pay for it. and if he had his druthers i would think he would withdraw from the alliance. i think it's a very serious risk. >> and it's not just nato that is at risk today. the future of an entire nation, one of our closest democratic allies ukraine now depend on a man who has criticized ukraine, has attacked the support we have given ukraine and has said that he would, quote, end its war with russia in 24 hours. of course there are no details as to how he would do such a thing. among our allies across the globe, especially in europe, an unease, deep unease and anxiety

about the future of america's commitment to democracy. "new york times" reports this, quote, in nations that leaned on the u.s. to defeat fascism during world war ii there is still a sense of shock that american voters have elected a felon who has promoted threats of violence against journalists and said he would use the courts and the military against domestic enemies. quote, i don't see a great future for european democracies if there is not a strong democratic america as a rock to lean on. that was nicole bachran, a political scientist in paris. more from the "times" reporting. quote, but now after witnessing his first term the world already knows the only certainty with mr. trump is uncertainty. he has often said that keeping the world guessing is his ideal foreign policy. that's where we start the hour with some of our favorite experts and friends. former prime minister of australia malcolm turnbull is back with me at the table. ranking member of the house intelligence committee

congressman jim himes is back. malcolm, i start with you. your reaction. >> well, look, donald trump is very different. you know, he's different to any other u.s. president we've had to deal with. and his disruption and uncertainty and his erratic approach are all part of his modus operandi. it's a feature, not a bug of donald trump's approach to international affairs. so yes, we are going to have to live through four years of greater uncertainty. but -- and look, i suppose i'm trying to be as balanced as i can here. not everything trump says -- just because trump says something doesn't mean it's wrong. and you know, he has been right -- to say that allies should lift their game and invest more in their defense. but on the other hand, if he creates the impression that america cannot be relied on or

can't be counted on, all that does is encourage and empower our adversaries like vladimir putin, like xi jinping. and it also, if america is seen as being uncertain or unreliable, it will also encourage countries that are in the middle if you like that are not totally rested on allies like the uk or australia or most of the nato members. it will encourage other countries to hedge and perhaps move closer to our adversaries. so there's no question from the international community's point of view stability, certainty, predictability is a plus. that is not part of donald trump's brand or his m.o. >> mr. prime minister, do you believe donald trump views vladimir putin as an adversary? >> well, he's certainly fascinated by putin. i mean, everyone -- i've

observed that. everybody has observed that. so many people have commented on it. i don't think he views putin as an adversary in the same way that most of the intelligence community and defense security establishment in the united states does to be honest. he has a fascination with putin. he has a fascination with other strongmen. "the new york times" is right when they say america has chosen a strongman. so trump relates to, admires and in many respects is attracted to xi jinping, vladimir putin, above all even kim jong un for heaven's sake. what an unlikely pen pal that trump would talk about exchanging love letters with this guy. he's very different. he's a very different president. and other leaders have got to be prepared to stand their ground.

my point in essence, my advice to other leaders, i'm a former leader obviously, is that the best service they can give america as a friend of america is their candor and courage and conviction in dealing with trump. if all you do is tell trump what he wants to hear and suck up to him, which is what a lot of people are inclined to do, you're not going to be doing your own country a service let alone the united states because trump will be surrounded by yes men and sycophants inevitably. that's always a risk for my president, but especially so with trump and especially i think in his second coming. >> mr. prime minister, we previously spoke about intelligence sharing and the extraordinary sort of sum of the total of intelligence fwhaechbts all of its participants but america sees the best intelligence gathered by our closest allies.

do you believe -- you said you're a former. would you advise the current leaders of your country to share intelligence with donald trump, particularly as it pertains to russia and the war in ukraine? >> we don't share intelligence -- for a start australia, that's not an area where we would have a great deal of activity. you can imagine we're more focused on our part of the world. but as a general rule the sharing between the five is, intelligence agencies, particularly signals intelligence, is about as intimate as it can be. and i don't think that will change unless circumstances give people cause to change. there have been times where famously in the cold war when americans were very concerned about russian penetration in the british intelligence agencies and there was a reluctance to continue sharing there for a pored, but i think as long as you're confident the other

agencies are going secure that sharing will continue. and you've got to remember the united states is the biggest gatherer of intelligence. while the u.s. benefits from our intelligence and britain's and canada's and even new zealand's, the net balance of benefit is much greater for us because the u.s. is so much bigger. >> congressman himes, you sit on the house committee. you're ranking member. i guess we don't know who will control -- which party will control the committee. historically it wasn't a particularly political body of work. in the time of trump it became extremely political. devin nunes was racing over to the white house. there was unmasking. it became a hotbed of extremely partisan activity. what are your concerns as trump is re-elected? >> well, i have multiple concerns. i did live through that devin nunes era where he became as chairman or ranking member and chair sort of a tool of the

trump administration. i have a lot more confidence i will tell you in mike turner. he's no devin nunes. but mike turner is also subject to pressure. and what we saw yesterday was that donald trump owns the republican party lock, stock and barrel. no incumbent is going to pull a kinzinger again. you step out of line, boom, you'ring gone. this is, by the way, why i have concerns about the filibuster in the senate because i think if donald trump decides he doesn't want the filibuster it's gone. but with respect to intelligence mike turner and i have worked very hard together. i think he's going to be under an immense amount of pressure because at his heart you can say a lot of things about donald trump, at his heart he does not want to hear what is inconvenient or plachbt to him. and that is pres precisely the intelligence community's job, to speak truth to power. we don't know which one of us will be chairman and ranking member but that's going to be a voe difficult moment if mike continues in the chairmanship. >> just to deal with the

elephant in the room donald trump is today charged with the mishandling of defense information and becomes the country's commander in chief. what are your broader concerns about the nation's most prized secrets? >> well, it's a subset of a lot of concerns that i have. it's not just storing boxes of documents, of classified documents in mar-a-lago. and we had this long conversation about how precisely bad a crime that was. it's a bad idea to have classified documents in someone's garage, whether you're donald trump or joe biden. by the way, he also famously tweeted classified information. i'm not quite as sanguine as the prime minister is. the uk, australia, allies that aren't in the five is that share information, israel, they're going to think twice i think about sharing information if they fear it may be exposed by an erratic president. but compared to my worries about ukraine or other trouble spots in the world, again -- >> let's talk about ukraine. i heard from igor novikov who's

i aregular on my program who called to check on us in america as he's literally on the battlefield or in and out of the frontline there. tell me your thoughts about what the ukrainians are girding for. >> let me start by saying that the current administration could have done more with respect to the granting of authorities to use our weapons. the republican congress held up the $60 billion for ukraine for a long time. so there's a whole bunch of blame to go around here. but we know -- we don't know everything about donald trump. we know he has a deep, deep antipathy for ukraine. it was the subject of his first impeachment. we know that as the prime minister said he has a bizarre love for vladimir putin. so much so that he stood in scandinavia, you remember this, and said i trust vladimir putin on messing with our elections more than i trust our own intelligence community. the good news is nato is in a very different place. europe is in a very different place. so they're going to be prepared, not entirely but to some extent, to step in for what is

inevitably going to be a decrease in the administration's support for ukraine. >> we had a lot of very frank conversations after january 6th. and i think it was an open question whether that would be a break glass moment for the republicans. one by one with the exceptions of liz cheney and adam kinzinger they fell back in line. what were your feelings as you watched this resounding victory for donald trump last night? >> yeah, you know, i understand my republican colleagues better. there's a thousand rationalizations you can use to make yourself feel better about supporting an obviously broken person. oh, the democrats are just as bad, which is of course what aboutism. i'll be very candid with you and say what's hardest about this -- and we took a shellacking across the board. we did just fine in connecticut. we did a lot less well than we did in 2020. we took a shellacking across the board. what's hard for me i used to -- >> why do you think that is? >> look at the charts. there's not a state in the union where there wasn't a right shift. i'm not a political pundit but

inflation is very hard. i think that in 2020 people were looking at what donald trump said and did around covid which was killing lots of americans. that went away. penal don't remember covid all that well but they do remember that chicken costs a lot more than it did four years ago. this will be unpacked for weeks and months. but it is for me i'm sort of a west wing democrat. that's kind of how i grew up in politics. and i just to my core believe that there's no way that tens much millions of americans are going to sign up and say yes, let me have a guy who lies 50 times a day, who whether he should have been tried in new york or convicted here or indicted there is constantly in trouble with the law, who cheats and lies. the idea that the american public, a significant chunk of the american public says yeah, that's my guy, it fundamentally alters, at least for me, this optimism and sense of the american public as fundamentally decent. that's for me to work out because of course we took the shellacking and now we need to go to work to make sure we're doing exactly what the

constitution demands we do, which is to be a loyal and aggressive opposition. >> mr. prime minister, how does the result sort of ring around the world? what does it make people think? or does it make them think differently about us here as americans? >> well, look, someone said there's a lot of room in a nation. i think a lot of people in america are saying this is a calamity, how can this guy who has been so -- done so many extraordinary things and sought to subvert or overthrow the peaceful transfer of power in 2021 and said so many extraordinary things, said things that i think all of us would agree if any other politician said them would be absolutely terminal events. so he's an extraordinary character. but what is the message it sends to the world?

it sends the message that america is less reliable, that it's less dependable because it's less certain. now, some people would say that's unfair. and they might even say it's wrong. but that is -- that's what trump wants to create. this is my point. this is a feature, not a bug. so he seeks to promote uncertainty. he rattles the cage of his allies and close partners. he huddles up to dictators and adversaries. all of this is incredibly unsettling. >> former -- >> and you can't expect this not to have consequences. i mean, consistency, reliability are very important. >> to be continued. we appreciate your insights so much. you were the first person we wanted to talk to today. >> thank you so much. >> thank you for making time for us. former australian prime minister

malcolm turnbull. and congressman jim himes, we're so grateful to you to be here. to be continued. we have to wrestle with those questions. we can do it here together, some of it. when we come back, why the pro-democracy argument didn't prevail with the voters of this country, and what donald trump could be planning to do to those he perceives and has said out loud are his, quote, enemies. we'll get to that next. and later we'll try to make sense of another election paradox. why voters continue to vote to protect reproductive freedoms even as they vote at the top of the ticket for the man who took them away. "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. one in five children worldwide are faced with the reality of living without food, no family dinners, no special treats, not enough energy to play.

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it's the question of the hour, one that will surely endure beyond these next few weeks, months, maybe years. that is with so much time and energy spent trying to explain and connect with voters and help them to understand the damage donald trump is saying out loud he plans to do to america's democracy why didn't those urgent bipartisan appeals break through? president barack obama relatesed a statement that says this is obviously not the outcome we had hoped for given our profound disagreements with the republican ticket on a whole host of issues. but living in a democracy is about recognizing that our point of view won't always win out and being willing to accept the peaceful transfer of power. and liz cheney, who among others elevated this conversation about our very democracy during the campaign, said this. quote, our nation's democratic system functioned last night, and we have a new

president-elect. all americans are bound whether we like the outcome or not to accept the results of our election. we now have a special responsibility as citizens of the greatest nation on earth to do everything we can to support and defend our constitution, to preserve the rule of law, and ensure that our institutions hold over these coming four years. citizens across this country, our courts, members of the press and those serving in our federal, state and local governments must now be the guardrails of democracy. joining our conversation, co-founder and executive director of protect democracy, ian bhasin's here. plus president of media matters for america angelo carusone is here. with me at table former rnc spokesman host of the bulwark podcast msnbc political analyst tim miller's here. tim, i know you've been other places, sort of been tracking your appearances. but i need to hear it here. your gut check on the gut check we got last night.

>> my gut is terrible. because i think that -- i don't know that the folks that voted for donald trump, that all of them at least realize what they've signed us up for. i was listening to -- chris hayes last night. one thing he said i thought was very insightful is that i think the aperturetion very wide on the potential outcomes. and god willing we fall on the manageably bad side of the outcomes. but i think there's a very wide potential for quite disastrous outcomes. i don't know that a lot of folks signed up for that. >> say what that is. i think part of that is trump became so crude -- and i think it all goes back to grab women in the p word. i think because it's such an awful, vulgar word no one heard it after the first time it was said. and so the crassness and the vulgarity of trumpism was for purposes of being able to communicate on a newscast like this always hemmed in, always reined in. but when you say the aperture's so wide, what does that mean? what is possible?

>> well, look, donald trump's stated campaign agenda, not hysterics, not hyperbole, like this is what he says. he was on the campaign trail. 1,000%, 2,000% tariffs. mass deportations. drilling. so that one's -- we can check that box. that is a normal republican box. >> which they never actually pull off. we didn't actually get to infrastructure week. but keep going. >> ending the war in ukraine by essentially conceding to putin. and using the justice department to go after his foes. like that's the agenda. >> liz cheney. court-martial -- >> he'd also say some -- he'd say no tax on tips. but every speech, when he was on that hannity interview, i'm going to be i addict on day one. what did he say? what am i going to do on day one? it was mass deportations, tariffs, drilling, ukraine. that's the agenda. just that, like just the stated part of the agenda could have very serious consequences, economic, on the tariffs, the

disruption from mass deportations. obviously horrific consequences for our democratic ally in kyiv. that's just the baseline. maybe he won't even do the baseline. who the hell knows with donald trump? that's what i mean by a wide aperture. but he's going to have a lot of people around him that want to execute on that including we saw marco rubio earlier today saying the senate is going to defer to him on confirmations for people like rfk jr., et cetera. i think it will be a more radical cabinet as well. my gut is just concerns about what is foreseeable. also concerns about what is unforeseeable. and i think my gut to be concerned for the democracy as we move to this conversation for people around democracy is i hope that there's a wake-up call that at a broad level there was one group of people really passionate about this. college educated, engaged voters. and we appreciate them. right?

in the suburbs and the cities. and there was an engaged group of center left, center right even voters who really cared about that. but nobody else did. and i think that the democrats were using a language that didn't appeal to everybody else and that felt hollow to a lot of working people. a lot of people -- basically every other -- not basically. every other demographic group. >> ian, you wrote something today. it might take me a second to -- here it is. your counsel today, which i looked for. quote, lean into agency. community and love as much as you can. go there. talk about this moment for our country. in choosing this in such clear and decisive ways in terms of a candidate who ran on all the things that tim just outlined. >> the history of democracy and freedom and these high-minded words that tim is right, we're going to have to interrogate how we talk about as a people who do fundamentally believe in these things that i think we do as americans at our core, is one of

generational ups and downs. and i think we had hopes and wanted there to be a real turn in direction where democracy and freedom and sort of a -- the best vision and version of america came into being sooner rather than later, perhaps as soon as next january. but this is going to be a generational struggle. and now that turnabout is going to take longer. but we've also known we're in a generational struggle for democracy. and i think what is important for people right now who are grieving over what i think is a devastating blow to a lot of core american ideals is that authoritarianism thrives on grinding people into a sense of hopelessness and loneliness and despair. it counts on people retreating into isolation. and the antidote to that is not allowing that to happen. it is stepping outside. it is unifying with neighbors. it is being willing to speak out representative cheney said for the values that we still hold

dear. here's the important thing for us to understand. agency that we don't use is agency that we lose. that's how authoritarian systems work. and so as we can find the strength to do it, we're all trying to find it today and in the days ahead, it is really important to lean into those values publicly and in community with one another. that's the way we make sure that the worst things that a trump presidency could bode for us are kept somewhat in check. >> i need you to -- we're going to do this like democracy for dummies for my benefit. i need you to say more about this. i just wrote this down again. i have a drawer full of ian bassen quotes i pull out. agency we don't use is agency we lose. that feels like it has an echo in tim snyder's first page of "on tyranny" -- >> that's right. don't obey in advance. >> that's right. say more. >> well, the way these authoritarian systems work around the world is they chill

people, they intimidate people into withdrawing from the public space through, as tim alluded to, both tim snyder and tim miller, what trump said was he was going to engage in sort of a campaign of revenge and retribution against his perceived opponents. if he does that, and people see him going afters as opponents and they say you know what, i'd better just sort of slink off into the shadows, i'd better authoritarians seize more power than systems rightly should give them. and we can't relinquish that power voluntarily. we as citizen in america are ultimately the sovereigns. and what our system does is it grants representatives temporary power to exercise governing on our behalf on the theory that when their term is over they give it back because power ultimately rests with us. and i think one of the fears we have with donald trump is while he won a democratic election yesterday the question is will he allow for that democracy to

hold a referendum on him four years from now and will he accept the results of that in a way that he didn't four years ago? and i think it is up to us to make sure that at the end of the day the people hold the reserve of power in this country, and that's what it means to use your agency so that you don't lose it to someone who wants to take it away from you. >> i want to bring angelo in on what was thought at some point to be a real x factor. people starting to really understand the content of project 2025. that happened. donald trump won anyway. we'll have that conversation on the other side of a very short break. no one's going anywhere. please stay with us. no one's go. please stay with us.

we're back with ian, angelo and tim. i mean, i don't want to embarrass you but we have been talking a little bit about how crippling it is to contemplate, angelo, that the substance of project 2025, i feel like one of the great accomplishments of the summer was that because of your work and some great work in the "new york times" and other places and taraji p. henson project 2025 was front and center before the country. and i'm sure no one read all 900 pages but you. but i read a couple hundred. and it's scary, you know, s-h-i-t. and people voted for trump knowing about project 2025. tell me what your thoughts are today about that. >> i think one of the tie-ins with the earlier discussion

about democracy too is many people voting for trump also thought they were voting for democracy in a way. because in one of the signature cruxes of project 2025 is this idea that we're going to go in, execute schedule f, which is the ability to fire tens of thousands of federal employees, and obviously for project 2025 that's about giving the effort control. removing all the potential obstacles as they see it and you can then put in your people and move forward, move forward. but for the larger right-wing audience and national audience we have a country that is pickled in right-wing misinformation and rage. and one of the stories that they've heard not for one year but for eight years is that there is a deep state, the universe of people in government that are out there that have the real power. they're the ones with the real power. they're taking power away from you, the individual. and the only person that can give you back that power is donald trump. he's going to -- and that's why they hate him so much, because

he's going to come in and he's going to get rid of them once and for all. he's not going to be duped again like last time. and he's going to give you back your power. there's a lot of policies to it and it's all scary, we can get into it. at its core this is a discussion about democracy. i'm not so blinded to think that they all are deeply pro democracy. many of them don't believe in democracy as a principle and they want something more autocratic and authoritarian. but there's another part -- a much larger part that actually believe that a vote for donald trump is a vote for democracy because they have validated and internalized the idea that there's an anti-democratic secret cabal that is actually preventing their desires and exercise of democratic power from being implemented and put in place and that only trump can restore their power. that's the part that's so frightening about this, is that it not just means that project 2025 becomes more of a reality and that a lot of the things we see, going after opponents and everything else, in their minds, in many people's minds that will be acceptable because they have

it coming to them and the through line, the foundation upon where all of this is is a large right-wing misinformation engine that has created an environment and a lens through which people see the world that is not the way that it is. that's how you get so many people going out there and saying he does it because he has to or he's not going to do those things or he's going to do them but they have it coming to them. because they are also in belief of being democratic and defending the system. >> what is the role of the fear that a document like project 2025 creates just to sort of come back to the beginning of obeying in advance. i mean, friends in same-sex marriages are frightened that their families will be destroyed. friends who worked in doj in places that maybe weren't in the crosshairs last time, had nothing to do with russia, are afraid they'll be dismissed as people like jeffrey clark take over. people who serve in the military around the world are frightened they'll be given illegal orders and are too far down the food

chain to know how to deal with them. i mean, what happens now, angelo? >> ian was talking before, that's all my brain could go to, was exactly the question you just asked, which is one of the things that project 2025 talks about early on, aside from getting rid of all this personnel and replacing them, is that you have to immediately weaponize the doj in order to shock and awe people. that you take a bunch of grand swift actions, mass arrests, mass prosecutions, harassments. and the goal isn't to get all those people ultimately in prison or something. it's to show a force very early on that we mean business in hopes that most people do the natural thing that comes instinctually, which is to duck and cover. there's a reason why it's so concerning about anticipatory obedience because it does speed up the process of giving authorityians more power. and they're very open about it in project 2025. that's the tactic. it's not just about revenge. although that's a part of it. it's also about sending a message that this is the new

order and everybody else best get in line. and that is an intention of that very first few months, is to execute the shock and awe thing. it was one of the first things steve bannon said last night, that they're coming for you, fbi. they're coming for you, deep state. he listed the places they're going to go after. and it's to show that nobody's safe, to get in line. so teachers, librarians, educators, they will all be systematically targeted and identified. it won't just be government bureaucrats who do very good work. it will also be anyone that they've identified as sort of a vanguard of this culture war that they've oriented around. and it's really -- to your point, it's to get everybody else to have to press the question is this worth it or is it better for me to just go along to get along? and that's what they want to instill right away because you get rid of the personnel, you change the norms and then you drive forward with the larger anti-democratic agenda. that's the reality that we are heading into. it doesn't have to be. we are going to have to fight. we have to stiffen our spines

and put some bulwarks in. there's a lot of work to be done. but that's why they're doing it and that's the intention. >> ian bassin, what is the bulwark against every person making that calculation, a librarian or teacher or mid-level person at the department of justice or the irs who has to investigate and audit someone who's done nothing wrong? what makes every individual human do their thing to hold the line on our democracy? >> well, that's why community is so important. if you're isolated, it's hard to have the spine strong enough to do those things. but if you feel connected with others, then there's strength in numbers. and i think the other side of this is on the question of why the democracy argument failed, i think it's worth us holding two somewhat contradictory ideas in our minds at the same time. we're sophisticated enough we can do this. one is it fundamentally failed and we have lessons to learn because around the world

incumbents are being thrown out of office because of a general dissatisfaction among publics with their well-being. the state of the economy, their ability to access goods, their ability to find meaning and purpose and live a good life. and that's happening in countries where democracy is on the ballot and countries where democracy's not on the ballot. fundamentally we need to be speaking more to people's sense of what they lack in their lives, their ability to access the good life. and we need to learn lessons about that going forward. and at the same time that we need to learn lessons we shouldn't overlearn lessons. and what i mean by that is this. this was still a very close election. i think we're in shock because it looks like donald trump will sweep all of the swing states. but when all the votes are counted, it still will be a roughly 50-50 election both nationally and in each of the swing states. people vote on the economy. they didn't vote on tyranny. and if donald trump overplays

his hand there's going to be a backlash to it because people as has been said didn't vote for what i think they will get. >> ian bassin, angelo carusone, and tim miller. all of you national treasures. thank you for being here with me today by my side. when we come back, abortion rights again paradoxically maybe being a big winner at the ballot box even though trump won big. how voters in state after state did vote to protect reproductive freedom even as they voted for the president who took it away. that's next. at's next.

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in a night with just a few bright spots for democrats the enormous victories for abortion rights ballot initiatives even in deep red states was a ray of hope. in 7 out of 10 states voters showed up to protect or expand abortion rights access. in arizona that state's initiative proposition 139 is projected to pass, repealing the state's 15-week abortion ban. in the republican stronghold of missouri voters there overturned that state's near total abortion ban. and in red montana voters enshrined abortion rights into that state's constitution. even in florida where the abortion ballot initiative is projected to fall short of the 60% required to pass it is projected to receive more than 57% of the vote there, outpacing donald trump's margin in the

state of florida. joining our conversation, president of reproductive freedom for all mini timmaraju is here. hi, mini. how are you doing? >> hanging in there, nicolle. how are you? >> i'm about the same. i do feel, though, inspired by vice president kamala's words. i went back and watched hillary clinton's 2016 concession, and i really do believe it's sort of in the -- i think you're still at howard. i think right there is where the coalition begins to assemble to fight for the presidency four years from today. and i think there's so much to learn about how successful your messages and your campaigns were among men and women, voters young and old, to protect access to abortion. and i think it seems -- you tell me but the mission now is to figure out how to attach that to the two candidates. >> that's absolutely right. look, it's obviously a devastating day for reproductive

freedom in terms of the position, losing the vice -- losing the presidency. sorry, nicolle. we had a pretty significant loss in the u.s. senate as well. but i want to note two races that recently broke our way. tammy baldwin and elissa slotkin. they ran on reproductive freedom and won. that was the defining issue for those races. and we've got candidates in state legislatures and state supreme courts who also ran and won on this issue. in addition to the ballot measures we did see successful down-ballot candidate races on this issue. i think the big question is how do we decouple -- how do we understand what happened in a place like montana? where we saw those overwhelming results for the ballot measure and then we saw the significant loss ever someone like a jon tester to tim sheehy. you know, we jon tester. we've got theories about this. one is, did these ballot measures give some sort of permission structure to voters. i'm voting for donald trump but also protecting my abortion rights by voting for this ballot

measure. we need to understand better how candidates benefit from this message but also we know that there was a lot of disinformation and muddling of the issue from donald trump about his position on abortion access, his position on reproductive rights and reproductive freedoms, so there's a lot to unpack in the next couple of days. we've done exit polling that we're hoping to have results for by the end of the week and we really need to dig into some of the public sentiment around these issues and why folks did not feel the threat of a trump presidency, a future trump presidency, and all the things we outlined about project 2025 and things you and i have talked about like comstock. >> one of the blessings of this candidacy was to witness the bravery of women like hadley duvall. let me read her statement last night. "the past year and a half, i stepped on to a platform i never imagined i would have.

i didn't do it for fame or money or applause. i did it because i know what it is like to have your innocence and power taken by a man who has promised to protect you. my heartbreaks for the women who have to watch so many idolize their abuser. what a privilege it must be to see today as a victory. we are pissed. we are heartbroken. we have rage, as we should, but we are not done. thank you to those who have supported me, led me, and loved me as their own family. to the young girls who feel like nobody sees you, i do, and this fight will always be for you." this is if most inspirational thing i've seen all day long, and i wonder if you can just say a little bit about the fight that starts tomorrow morning. >> yeah, i mean, the fight actually started today. i will say, incredibly moving statement from hadley duvall.

the abortion storytellers that you featured, that we've talked to, that have been all over the country campaigning for the vice president, and campaigning for these ballot measures in really tough states. remember, hadley first spoke out in her home state of kentucky. they are the true heroes of this moment. their work is going to be critical to what the next four years of resistance is going to look like. we have to immediately get to work holding these new elected officials accountable and making sure that our coalition that includes independents and republicans that have crossed over on the ballot measures and on the issue join us in the fight to protect abortion access, protect ivf, protect contraception. these republicans who won by moderating their positions on this are held accountable. >> mini, thank you for everything you've done. our conversations are to be continued. a quick break for us. we'll be right back. a quick break for us we'll be right back.

your shipping manager left to "find themself." leaving you lost. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. sponsored jobs on indeed are two and a half times faster to first hire. visit indeed.com/hire we had always wanted a family, wanted a child. i was healthy. all of the checkups were great. did not expect for the worst thing to happen. so i first learned there's an issue with my pregnancy with ethan when i started to feel less movement. then they said, you need to come in immediately. they were using the monitor, couldn't find a heartbeat, and i just knew, in that moment, he was gone. it's a health crisis. the u.s. is among the most dangerous developed countries for childbirth. taking the lives of two babies every hour.

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united states senate. mini mentioned this one. nbc news projecting that democratic congresswoman elissa slotkin will win the open senate race in michigan. now to some other races that at this hour so far remain uncalled. in pennsylvania, nbc news is characterizing the race between republican dave mccormick and incumbent democrat bob casey as too close to call. similar story over in nevada with republican sam brown and incumbent democrat jackie rosen, locked in a race that nbc news is right now calling too close to call. and finally, in arizona, democrat ruben gallego is facing off against republican kari lake. that race is too early to call. we'll stay on top of that for all of you. o call we'll stay on top of that for all of you

thank you so much for letting us into your homes during these trying