>> we are so grateful that you chose to be with us tonight, on days like this more than ever, we like to be together. and i say that not just because of my colleagues here but because you can see it in all of our faces, listen, our coverage of the election, the aftermath of the election and what happens next is going to continue on msnbc indefinitely, we will always be here with you, we will be with you here tonight starting with your favorite hosts in their usual spots. and starting right now, our

beloved colleague, alex wagner, with alex wagner tonight. good evening.>> thank you for your great coverage tonight. hours ago, vice president, harris officially conceded the 2024 election to donald trump that she did not concede everything.>> while i concede this election, i do not concede the site that fueled this campaign. the fight, the fight for freedom, for opportunity, for fairness, and the dignity of all people. a fight for the ideals at the heart of our nation, the ideals that reflect america at our best.

that is a fight i will never give up.>> there are a lot of people experiencing legitimate pain and sadness and fear right now, english writer, evelyn wall wrote about a blow, expected, repeated, falling upon a bruise with no smart or shock of surprise, only with a sickening pain. and after 2016 and the aftermath, that sentiment for half of this country or more, feels about right. here we go again. donald trump now has a real shot at winning the popular vote, he is currently leading by 6 million, republicans are projected to take control of the senate and they are the odds on favorite to take control of the house of representatives. how did this happen? as we try to begin to answer that, one of

the best assessments i have read of a current political climate came from vanity fair earlier this month, steve bannon and the movement he and trump have built on the american right, in the piece, he identifies the central motivations in the maga movement, motivations like a yearning for traditionalism. if you followed this closely, you know what i'm talking about, you have heard the term cost around to describe the movement of conservatives to want to return to what they consider traditional american values, one centered around a retrograde version of the american family. we saw this vision of america, violently and angrily and bizarrely boosted by tucker carlson when he described america as an anxious teenager waiting her for her father figure to come home and spank her.>> there has to be a point at which dad comes home.

that's right. dad comes home. and he's when dad comes home, you know what he says? you have been a bad little girl and you are getting a vigorous spanking right now, and it's not going to hurt me more than it hurts you.>> it was dark and strange and meant to appeal to men including especially white men which as the result of the selection made clear, it did that they were not alone, white women voted for donald trump by an eight point margin, they were not put off by this vision of america, they might even

support it, people like steve bannon and jd vance and tucker carlson, the people who have worked to craft trumpism into a coherent philosophy, with the loss that many working families feel in a globalizing economy, to them, the end of a male- dominated household and the struggle to get by financially, those are natural partners, even before the pandemic, american middle-class wages were stagnating and a very real loss in purchasing power caused by the pandemic gave them something to point to as justification for this. this is not to say that so- called economic anxiety can explain away our countries embrace of racist and sexist demagogue, it is quite the opposite, they are a key part of the ideology that bemoans the loss of white male power

even as white dudes continue to dominate our politics, in exit polls, white men without a college degree supported donald trump over kamala harris by 40 points, voters who served in the military went for trump over harris by 31 points. to that end, he identifies another factor that i think modifies the maga movement, the reassertion of a white male warrior class , you'll often hear in conservative circles that america's warrior class which on the right is often believed to be ethically scotch irish, disproportionately selling families who treat military service as family heritage, they have been the ones who bled to build our empire and ended up with nafta, fentanyl and a coastal establishment that sees them on their values as backward and dangerous. that was a key part of the message crafted by trump acolytes, a way to weave together concerns about status laws and immigration and drug abuse and american the

terrorism into a eulogy for american toughness, and an attack on the so-called ruling class that is blamed for its demise, here is jd vance during his acceptance speech at the republican national convention. >> things did not work out well for a lot of kids that i grew up with, every now and then i will get a call from a relative back home who asked, did you know so-and-so, and i will remember a face from years ago and i will hear they died from an overdose. america's ruling class wrote the checks, communities like mine paid the price. for decades, that divide between the few with their power and comfort in washington and the rest of us, from iraq to afghanistan to the financial crisis of the great recession, from open borders to stagnating wages, the people who govern this country has failed and failed again.

that is of course until a guy named donald j trump came along.>> again, i am not endorsing any of this worldview but it is important for us to understand how the trump campaign managed to point to real problems and position donald trump as the solution, how they turned an issue like immigration into a proxy for all of society's problems, it goes a long way in explaining why donald trump is going to become this country's 47th president and how donald trump and his allies were able to undermine some of the most optimistic parts of the harris message. for instance, there was this idea promoted by both joe biden and kamala harris that america is an aspirational project, this is how kamala harris put it in her closing speech.>> the united states of america is the greatest idea, humanity ever

devised. a nation big enough to encompass all our dreams, strong enough to withstand any fracture or fissure between us, and fearless enough to imagine a future of possibilities.>> to a lot of people that sounds really patriotic, the kind of message you would expect someone who has proud to be american on their spotify list to understand and embrace and yet it is precisely the thing that maga leaders seized upon as evidence of a threat to the white christian ethnocentricity that they returned to. as steve bannon said, america is not an idea, it is a country, it is a people, with roots, spirit, destiny, and what you are talking about, the liberalism and the globalism,

real americans are the victims of that. most people were not listening about liberalism and globalism but they heard one candidate talk about america as a virtuous experiment in self- governance and the other candidate call america a garbage can and the majority of them sided with the guy calling the country a garbage can. which brings me to the final element of the selection, the cultural realignment between the left and the right over american institutions, trumps massively destructive four years in office forced the american left to become defenders of institutionalism, democrats had to speak up for law and order and for peace and stability and democracy. and that was why people like liz cheney and her father, among a handful of otherwise quite conservative people, how they became unlikely partners with democrats in the fight against his dangerous vision

for america and for the world. it was the right thing to do but it had a political cost. for most of my life, the american left was the side channeling legitimate frustration with the american institutions, democrats are the ones who pointed out how innocent people could get caught up in america's criminal justice system, liberals and progressives were the ones that called out abuses by the cia and by america's military industrial complex at the realignment that happened under donald trump that the democrats had to see much of that righteous outreach to republicans who were trying to tear it down. and voters who felt frustrated by those issues found their way into donald trump's coalition. as former obama foreign policy adviser said, i think the innovation of the bannon and vance project is that it has forced the left to become defenders of the very institutions they are supposed

to be skeptical of like the cia, like nato, or as joe rogan put it in his interview with trump, that is how republicans became punk rock. >> the rebels are republicans now, you want to be rebel, you want to buck the system, you are conservative now.>> i don't say any of this to endorse these ideas or chastise anyone, least of all joe biden and kamala harris, a lot of you listening to this program, including me would like to not have to think about anything donald trump or steve bannon or jd vance or joe rogan have to say about our country or its people or its place in this world. but in order to do that, in order to reach a point where these people are once again far away from the levers of power in this country, we have to

begin by understanding how they got there in the first place. joining me is the former deputy national security adviser, and the co-hosts of the indispensable podcast, thank you for joining me, you were the very first person that i thought of when we were grappling with the outcome of this election late last night, and i want to talk about everything that i just talked about and more, and first start with your thoughts about this notion of traditionalism because so much of this election is thought of as this gender battle but it seems like a bigger cultural moment that by the way extends to europe. traditionalism is a phenomenon that europe has embraced and i wonder what you make of it finally coming ashore in america.>> you asked the question very well because as you know, we have talked about these things, one of the things i have been doing is traveling around the world and talking to people that are fighting a version of the same thing

everywhere, this brand is on the rise across europe, it is on the rise across different parts of the world and where it starts is that globalization, the spread of markets and the spread of capitalism and culture, that has been infringing for decades on people's sense of traditional identity, all of a sudden there is an homogenized culture, and it has always been priced into globalization that people feel something slipping away, some form of traditional identity and you have these right-wing populist leaders who say we are the real americans, it is the same message globally, and at the same time, i think the other opportunity is particularly after the financial crisis and all of the excesses around this country

and around the world, the system that was supposed to deliver better standards of living, the basic thought was, you loose something with globalization but what you gain is the standard of living is going up, life is getting better, that has not been the bargain for people in a lot of places in this country and around the world, they feel their standard of living slipping away along with that traditional identity, they are seeing a future for their kids that is not as good as their own past and those two forces have merged in our election. the moment we can feel better about it, this is happening all over the world, this is not unique to the united states, this idea that you appeal to people by saying there is us versus them, we are the real americans, we are the traditional identity of this country and obviously that tends to be a white christian message, but we are against this encroachment of globalization and liberalism that is not delivering for you even as it is also asking you

to change who you are. and i think trump whether by design or accident, stumbled into the most potent force in global politics right now which is the reassertion of nationalism as an organizing principle in place of the liberal democracy that you and i took for granted. >> and i feel like that flows into every aspect, the fact that you are talking about a white patriarchal nationalist message being the organizing principle of this, kamala harris ran a flawless campaign but on the most elemental level, being a mixed-race woman from california maybe doomed her candidacy from the start, given the reality of the cultural, not just versus globally but nationally, and i was stunned, trump made inroads in the city of new york.

he made the bastion of coastal elites, gaining 10 points in the bronx and 11 points in queens, this is deeply felt in every level of american society and the question is, how do democrats move the country away from it given the toxicity of this message?>> first of all we have to understand the potency of any anti-incumbent message, and in the post-pandemic political world, it has not been a good time for incumbents. i do believe it has been challenging for democrats that because we are oppositional to trump, we defend the establishments in our own way, that he is attacking. those are the establishments people are very angry at. we could have a discussion about who is responsible for things like the financial crisis and the economic and trade policies in this country, i think those are dominantly republican policies but the reality is, democrats are the ones sitting here defending the

way systems work, we are defending the national security enterprise, government, and government itself is something that people are angry at and kamala harris has you inherent, she inherited that jacket of what people don't like which is the status quo. even though i think she tried to position herself as very much a changed candidate. some of this is pure racism and misogyny but what gets trump over the line is the sense that people are just angry and they want something different. we democrats make the mistake of thinking, look at trump, he is talking about tearing it down, well a lot of people think that sounds pretty good to them. people like me who talk about the need to defend democracy, democracy is part of what people are angry at because they don't think democracy has worked for them. >> i think that realignment

around institutions is the trickiest territory for democrats especially heading into a second trump term, the idea of institutional integrity and believing in the systems that we have established to keep law and order and ensure fair trials, all of the guardrails in many ways that trump inevitably seems to dismantle, and to protect that law at the same time at not getting stuck for the institutional failures that have been angering people for decades, it is a very careful balance.>> it is a very careful balance, but that is part of the point, alex, we have to do something differently than the first term, in the first trump term we were mobilized in trumpism, we were a part of this effort to push back against everything trump did. what we didn't do enough of his regenerate, who are we as democrats, what is the story we are telling people, how do we

bring a responsible populism into our message? and joe biden was a manifestation, as much as i admire many things about joe biden, he was a familiar washington figure, he ran as a restoration of competence of what people are familiar with of competent legislating, but the mood of this country is much more oppositional to institutions, and to politics itself and to washington. frankly barack obama ran against, he was an outsider, it is 20 years of people that have been looking for something that is different and one we can take comfort in and learn from is it is not just happening here, it is happening around the world politically. in the next two years, where democrats should have a good chance of trying to take back some elements of power, we should focus on figuring out who we are, what is our next

generation, who are the storytellers, what are the messages we can bring and meet people where they are as much as following trump down every rabbit hole, we also have to fight against everything he's going to do that could danger marginalized groups in this country but we have to develop our own story.>> ben rhodes, thank you for joining me tonight, it is a pleasure to have you, to offer a ray of light, an agenda and a very dark time. we have a lot more to get to tonight including the plan to combat the erosion of basic civil rights in a second trump era, i'm going to talk to the executive director of the aclu about that plan, but first, abortion was on the ballot yesterday across the country and the results did not follow the playbook, i'm going to speak with melissa murray about that coming up next. up next. (speaking to self) about our honeymoon. what about africa? safari? hot air balloon ride?

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versus wade.>> what we were able to do is through really the courage of six supreme court justices, we were able to do this after years and years of turmoil.>> trump has taken credit for the decision repeatedly since it was handed down in 2022 and yet in this election cycle, trump insisted it would be great for women and their reproductive rights, he promised voters that he would not sign a federal abortion ban and it seemed to have worked.>> i like that he didn't actually plan to ban abortion, he just brought it back to the states. >> 45% of voters trusted donald trump to handle the issue of abortion. here's how far that went, in florida, at least 57% of voters cast their ballots for abortion rights and 56% voted for donald

trump. montana's initiative to enshrine the right to an abortion also passed with at least 57% and yet nearly 59% of montana voters still voted for donald trump. arizona's abortion amendment passed with flying colors, more than 61%, nbc news still projects the race for arizona is still too close to call but donald trump is leading by five points. in missouri, voters successfully overturned the abortion ban while simultaneously voting for donald trump. joining me is co-host of the strict scrutiny podcast, help me understand what went down last night, i think there are two different scenarios, the first one, and i know you want to talk about this, is the reality of these abortion referendum ballot measures and what they did politically here. >> i want to be really clear, there were not a lot of moves on the chessboard and i think

the emergence of direct democracy as a vehicle for securing abortion rights was very attractive, not a panacea, direct democracy does not exist in all of the states but where it does exist, we have seen it abused, even in red states to secure abortion rights, that why it was deplored in 10 different ballot initiatives and 10 different states. part of the idea here was that the interest in abortion for those ballot initiatives would drive voter interest in the other races on the pallet including the presidential race, senate, whatnot, it would roe, roe , roe your vote, and the presence of those ballot initiatives gave some subset of women voters a permission structure that allowed them to go into the ballot booth and vote their interests on securing abortion rights and pitted to vote their economic interest which they believed would be vindicated by donald

trump.>> literally have your cake and eat it, too.>> yes, to be clear, a subset of voters, there were others that were more collectively minded as they went to the ballot box but this was a group that were able to vote all of their interests whether it was the economy, abortion, they were able to satisfy all of those interests by splitting the pallet, voting for the abortion referendum and also for donald trump.>> given the way that this all shook out with a lot of these referendum passing in large numbers, that is not meeting quite the 60% threshold, and a very important point, i just wonder how you see the future landscape as it concerns twice and reproductive autonomy in this country, given where the right wing said it wants to be on this issue, everything from abortion to contraceptive issues, where are

we here? there's the court, how do you look at the road ahead?>> first let's turn to direct democracy, i think it is still going to be very attractive, maybe it'll be more effective in a midterm for example where you are able to secure abortion rights without having the choice between different candidates. i think now that the dust has settled, we have someone who is in the white house who basically has control of every institution of government, he has the executive, he has congress, very likely to get the house and the senate and he has control of the courts, we have six degree super conservative majority. may not be able to get through a nationwide abortion ban, i think he could push it through but i don't know if there is

political appetite to do that, but with this concept that has been dormant, all they need is a new attorney general with a new department of justice that is willing and able to enforce it and you can stop the distribution and use executive power to rollback the approval, you can basically take medication abortion off the table, and also make it more difficult for physicians to provide surgical abortions by preventing them from sending the instruments through the mail. then you have the court, one of the things dobbs did not do was undermine the due process doctrine which essentially could be a conduit for basically ensuring feticide, the idea that the fetus is much a person for constitutional law. the court stayed away from completely discrediting this

concept, and in an article that was published in the harvard law review, we argued that it might be because they are preserving that in order to enshrine personhood down the road.>> you see this, using the words fetal personhood is politically a little bit easier or more palatable than saying abortion ban, that is where we are at. please come back, we need your expertise, thank you for helping me try to make sense of this. coming up, the first organization to go toe to toe with donald trump in his first term is gearing up for around two. first, the stunning shift in the latino vote toward donald trump despite, well, everything. that is next, stay with us. wits

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>> donald trump wrapped up one of the most racist and anti- immigrant campaigns in modern political history with 46% of the latino vote in key states, it is the highest share for a republican presidential candidate since the 1970s. how and why latinos moved to maga in such stunning members will be the subject of such intense debate in the days to come but what is already clear is for those who did not vote for donald trump, like this family in arizona, his return to the white house is nothing short of a nightmare.>>

[speaking in a global language]>> i was just asking about how you heard of donald trump, yeah, you, too. >> joining me now is paola ramos, it is great to see you, thank you for being here last night and tonight, you are one of the only people that i think kind of saul -- saw this ship

coming based on your extraordinary research on the ground, can you tell me about those who ultimately moved to maga were able to move past his racism on immigration, is it a generational divide between those who have been here longer, how do you see it? >> i think the idea was that as latinos would see images like the one you just played, as they would listen to trump, the idea was that latinos would overwhelmingly reject that, but the story that is in front of us, over 40% of latinos voted for somebody that is promising mass deportations, the thing is, as we try to understand why, we have to remember that even in the early 2000's, there were people that were already sounding the alarm, there was a scholar that in the early 2000's was saying the following, that as latinos in this country assimilate, as they would spend more and more

years in this country, he said that the pro-immigrant bias would dissipate and perhaps disagreeing -- disappear altogether. we are now staring at the fact that latinos not only feel more americanized but perhaps more detached from those immigrant families like the ones that we saw in the screen. one more thing that makes everything so complicated, and you and i have talked about this, this idea that overshadowing this reality, this reality that latinos feel more americanized, there is this sphere that mainstream america will see us as these perpetual foreigners, always seeing us as them, we are in this perfect storm where trump's anti-immigration narrative is feeding into what we are seeing in this country. >> and that idea is an ideology that latinos want to be a part

of, ucla professor perez writes, latinos today have an earnest and about investment in whiteness as an ideology. if whiteness is an ideology, then your skin color and racial classification do not subjugate your worldview, if whiteness is an ideology, then what turns you your bona fide is your commitment to be pushing back politically. trumps rhetoric offers them that way of un- classifying themselves as minorities and gaining entry into the white ideology, do you think that is accurate?>> i do, to know latinos and our history is to understand that we have always romanticized whiteness, and one of the things he would

always tell me was, yes i'm not latino, i'm a black person but he would always say and also the descendent of spaniards, also the descendent of europeans, so i think this is where we have to take a step back and understand the weight of colonialism and the weight of that history playing in this moment. i think it is important to say this, one of the things that the spaniards did is institutionalize this caste system that created the solution of a racist latin america but more than anything, it created this structure for all of us latinos regardless of how we look, regardless of our ethnic background, it created a structure for us to always be able to draw a direct line to whiteness, to draw a red -- direct line to europeans, now that we are in the united states that criminalizes immigrants and black people, that criminalizes black and brown people, all play into this racial dance, will at times try very hard to approximate ourselves to whiteness, it is not a foreign

concept, it is an ideology that has been ingrained in our being.>> you are just such a fountain of expertise and deep thinking on this, please come back, this is the beginning of a much longer conversation of how we look at this country and how it is shaped before our very eyes. coming up, one week into trumps first term, the aclu sues his demonstration on the proposed muslim ban, we talk about the plans for a second trump term coming up, plus democrats notch a few more send it victories, hakeem jeffries said that chamber remains very much in play. stay with us. with us

today nbc news projected that democrat elissa slotkin has won her race and that democrat tammy baldwin held on to her seat in the senate in wisconsin. we are still waiting on calls in the u.s. senate in arizona, maine, pennsylvania and how the races end will really matter. republicans have already won control of the senate, but how big or small the majority is will be key in how much power they actually have. no matter what happens democrats will have the power of the filibuster giving senators a

60-vote threshold to block the worst parts of trump's legislative agenda, but there is plenty they can do without the filibuster. >> robert f. kennedy jr. expressed interest in a cabinet level post. do you think the senate would confirm him? >> i think the senate will give deference to a president that won a stunning electoral college election and a man date to govern. >> the filibuster does not apply to the senate confirmation process whether trump wants to appoint robert f. kennedy jr. or a maga die hard 18-year-old to the supreme court. filibuster would be meaningless for both and that is where the size of the republican majority will matter. there is a huge difference between 54 and 51gop senators.

54ric grenell is getting confirmed. right now republicans have 52 seats in the senate. if that holds more moderate republican republicans could prevent him from confirming his most extreme appointees. the wider that the margin gets, the harder that the task becomes, and the margins are equally important in the house. today hakeem jeffries stated that control of the house remains very much in play. if democrats manage to win the house they can thwart rump's legislative goals and have oversight powers and limiting the size of the republican

majority will matter. in the most recent congress the dysfunctional republican majority was so slim they were unable to pass anything. as of this hour republicans have 209 seats and democrats have 187. which way each of the remaining 39 seats lands will matter immensely. as we await the balance of power in the house, what is already clear at this hour is that republicans in control of the white house and in the senate. they have those two bodies for the next two years meaning much of the resistance to donald trump will have to come from outside of the government. anthony romero, executive director of the aclu joins me to discuss what that might look like coming up next. discuss whak like coming up next. ey failure with farxiga. because there are places you'd like to be. farxiga can cause serious side effects,

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the aclu has been resisting

trump policies since january 2017. the group's executive director writes one week into trump's presidency we were the first organization to challenge his muslim ban. now they are already preparing to take on a second trump administration. joining me is anthony romero. tell me how it will work. >> we have a plan. >> the deportations are supposed to start on day one. >> it will be devastating. if he follows through on the promise to deport 1 million immigrants it will rip communities apart. u.s. citizens live along side undocumented people. grandma might not have papers but the u.s. citizen grand kids who she takes care of do. when you rip apart the communities it will be devastating. the only way to do it on that scale is workplace raids and

house to house raids. we are going to have to suit up and challenge them. you can't do raids at that the scale and not engage in racial discrimination. >> do you feel like there is enough legal talent on trump's side? >> no. the government will be turned over to him. the massive firepower of the u.s. government. we are the davids of the government's goliath. they have over 10,000 lawyers. we have 550. we are the largest public interest group in the u.s. i don't think about the quality of the talent he will attract. stephen miller. i lose sleep on a number of things. i read their docket and studied it. some of the cases are showmanship, but i don't really

see much there. i don't see any firepower. now, if he has his hands on the u.s. federal government and department of homeland security we have to talk. we can bring lawsuits to obstruct their worst policies. we have studied every one of the issues. we have done an analysis about what you could do to stop the worst of it. litigation buys you time. biden has appointed 213 federal judges and if he gets the other 26 he will surpass trump's appointees in the first administration. i'm not willing to give up the

power of litigation. i think that good lawyers make their cases to judges that are not convinced when they walk in. when we brought the case on the census, we won in front of roberts' court with the chief justice writing the majority opinion. come on, folks. we have not even started to do this work. and there is work to do in the states. >> it is so clarifying and heartening to hear from you. you guys really are the front lines of the fight. i know this is an extraordinary moment to live through and moments where we feel like democracy can survive. that is our show for tonight. now time for "the last word." >> it is a time to be grateful for how