and you know, these ads, i think we obviously are going to have a long conversation about why this election turned out the way it did but as you were talking about earlier in the program, this is not a good time to be a party in power across practically every liberal democracy around the world. and these ads were a separate issue entirely, when i was hearing from undecided voters, they felt like the economy was better under donald trump and we survived four years, and obviously i disagree with that perspective but, that is what is driving people.>> sarah mcbride is going to be gone for new member area and orientation soon, thank you for coming. alex wagner starts right now.

>> as of this hour, the battle for control of the house continues, democrats currently hold 197 seats and republicans have 211, 27 seats remain uncalled right now, in the senate, republicans won control with at least 52 seats so far, that is a less than ideal far, balance of power for democrats looking to play defense against the incoming trump administration, but, we have been here before. in 2016, trump didn't just win the white house, republicans won overwhelming control of the house and a 52 seat majority in the senate but even in those circumstances, democrats still managed to check trumps power, you might remember that during his first campaign to the white house, this was one of his key promises. >> we are going to deliver real change that once again puts america first.

that begins with immediately repealing and replacing the disaster known as obamacare. >> trump had the white house, a majority in the house and a majority in the senate, but still, when push came to shove, trump could not kill obamacare, he managed to get the bill through the house but when that got to the senate, even republican senators thought it was too extreme so they wrote their own bill instead. and even then, the republican- controlled senate could not pass that bill, which again was written by republican senators. you probably remember how that went down because it was very dramatic. it was the end of july, 20 17th, republican senator, susan collins had crossed the aisle to vote with democrats against the bill. republicans only needed one final vote to get a 50-50 tie and mike pence was eagerly

standing by to cast that tie- breaking vote to kill the affordable care act, only to have senator john mccain stunned the nation with his vote at 1:30 in the morning. ing. >> moderate republicans joining with democrats in the senate stating what was an estimated 15 million americans, a number that has risen to 50 million. but, stating the obvious, john mccain isn't in the senate anymore and neither are more moderate republicans like mitt romney. susan collins and lisa murkowski are still there but, they could not serve against trumps most extreme policies in the second term, so the question is, is the hope of a senate guardrail entirely lost?

or might there be mostly normal republicans are just not entirely bonkers conservatives somewhere in the upper chamber? has donald trump shifted the republican party so far right that the people used to think of as conservative republicans might actually become party moderates in a second trump administration. remember, if you will, at one point in time, that romney was the republican nominee for president and now meant not -- mitt romney is so centrist, things have really changed in the maga years, is there anyone else who might reveal themselves to be actually interested in a functioning government? remember oklahoma senator, james lankford, who offered the bipartisan immigration bill that trump ultimately killed, or what about john cornyn who

negotiated the most significant gun safety bill in a generation over the protests of many in his party which was passed into law by the democrat president biden. or even someone like north carolina senator, thom tillis who ripped republican votes from the respect for marriage act which would have enshrined marriage equality into law and which resulted in senator tillis being censored by his own states republican party. i know, this is a long shot, but immigration and guns and lgbtq+ rights sometimes very rarely, but sometimes they move even the most hardened conservatives into action. and if there is even a chance that a few republicans might be convinced to act on these issues, what can and should democrats and the upper chamber do to help create a senate guardrail against the next four years of a trump agenda?

joining us now is the democratic senior senator from minnesota, amy klobuchar who was re-elected to a fourth term on tuesday. senator, congratulations on re- election and thank you for being here tonight. first, am i wish casting here, i know i'm sort of wish casting but is it futile to hope that the overton window has shifted so far to the right that people like cornyn and lankford and tillis might act as some sort of bulwark against the most insane agenda? >> first of all, i know we have been through a lot this weekend just watching kamala harris give that beautiful speech and the tears of these young people, it has been a hard thing but a lot of us right now, we cannot dwell on that, we have to move forward, that means of course peaceful

transition of power which the vice president explained but it also means, finding those moments where we could get things done to improve people's lives because people clearly spoke out in this election and democrats, the idea that we would just say we are okay, that is not good enough. this has been an economic vote, but we want to be methodical about looking at this and not just say somebody sent this on tv, with all due respect, and we want to look at exactly what the facts are but my gut check is that this is about economics, people feeling like things are swirling out of control, whether it is technology, the global economy and we have to be there for them, what does that mean? sometimes standing our ground against crazy policies that are going to make things worse or tax cuts for billionaires but it also made me find moments of common ground, you just pointed out, john mccain in that moment, he whispered to me ahead of time what he was going

to do, i will never forget that. and he stood up, as did susan collins and lisa murkowski, we have seen this even since john mccain, we have seen people stand up on the republican side, i don't think it is going to be a bulwark, let me be clear, i am not naove about this in any way against some of the really bad things that were contained in project 2025 or some of the nominees that we are going to have to stand up against but i think you have to find those moments of common ground because basically message received from the american people, they want us to get those things done, not talk about bills from the past, not talk about things that happen that somehow aren't relevant to their lives, they need people to stand with them. >> i'm interested in what you are saying about the message received because obviously democrats are going to look for republicans who may want to move toward the center but it

sounds like the move among senate democrats is it is incumbent upon us to look for and seek out common ground, that it is not about a wagon circling at this hour looking across the aisle to say okay, the american public said loud and clear, we need to find a way to get along. is that what you are saying?>> i'm saying we have to find those moments and it may not be with donald trump all the time, maybe as you explained, remember, he said he wanted to repeal the affordable care act but we reached out to the public and made the case, we got a word out, whether on social media or tv, and republicans came with us, that is how i looked at it. they looked at where their constituents are and we still up against it regardless of what donald trump said. i think some of that will be going on, the other piece of this will be finding any common ground we can to pass laws but there will be and i do want to emphasize, we are going to have

to stand our ground and with the way the senate rules work, we will be able to do that. we will have to get a bunch done in the next few weeks including a number of judicial nominees that have been waiting for action. we have, the short-term, peaceful transition of power, and then i'm sharing the inauguration no matter who wins, that was my job.>> that is a short straw, the shortest straw in washington.>> button then we head into this moment where we can just be vulnerable to what happened, we have to look at what people really need, child care costs, housing, see if there is common ground with the republicans that we can percolate a bill and get something done, that actually expands housing and from the rural areas to the suburban to the urban areas, the issue of prescription drugs, that was my bill and it

was one of the more popular things that got done in the last few years and we have 10 drugs that this administration put out, finally got something done. guess what, the next 15 drugs are next year, the next 15 drugs are after that so i will be pushing this new administration to make sure that they negotiate those prices with the pharmaceutical companies and we keep ringing the cost of drugs down. we are going to have different roles depending on what the issue is. but, we cannot say well, this just happened in other countries so there you go. we have to actually have a strategy for each and everything and of course there is going to be changes, this idea that we need to focus on bread-and- butter issues, that is what i've done in my race, i know with a lot of my colleagues in these battleground states have done the same and we need to keep going with that because we can't keep looking back, we have to move forward.>> you

draw the distinction between senate republicans and donald trump and the american voters do, too. senate republican candidates did worse than donald trump where there is the largest gap, i think your republican opponent got 40.5%, donald trump got almost 47 points, you also did better than kamala harris, the notion is that people are looking at senate candidates differently, that seems like a potentially good news, if republicans, if the republic is not rewarding extreme candidates, hopefully that means their expectations are for the senate to be a more deliberative chamber.>> they want checks and again, while we have some tremendous losses, two of my best friends in the senate, sherrod brown and jon tester, we sit together and one of the things we need to do by

the way in our party and the senate, not just talk to the people who won, talk to the people who lost and get their ideas, but one of the things that i have found to be helpful for me as i go not just where it's comfortable but where it is not comfortable, i visit all 87 counties every year. people say i didn't vote for you but i did like this, or will you do this for me, we have to get this idea, for people that think we are above the voters and they don't know what they are saying or doing, you've got to hear about their lives. a bunch of them live in areas where they can't even find childcare but they want to go to work. a bunch of them are working in hospitals where there is not enough employees so they are working double shifts, you have

police officers and police agencies that are understaffed, we have people into the jobs where we need the help right now as well as making it easier to get the degrees, the one- year and two-year degrees for those jobs, i think there's a bunch of things we can do for which there is some republican support, to get to where we need to go but i just want to make clear, i lived through the donald trump era, i know those people he put up and i fully expect we are going to see that again and we were able successfully to join with some republicans in stopping some of these nominees but i just don't think that it can define our party or the work that we do going forward. we must be bigger and i know a lot of democrats in the house and senate agree with me.>> well, your tenacity in going into difficult situations and talking to people who view differently from your own, extends to your chairmanship of the inauguration, senator amy klobuchar, for minnesota, doing

the tough lifts. thank you for your time and perspective, really appreciate it. now that we have gone through the situation in the senate, what happens in the house? the chances for a democratic takeover in the lower chamber, and whether republicans can even govern if they hang onto their majority, that is next. coming up later, how the once and future leader of the free world won his way back to office by championing sexism loud and proud, we are going to get into that and why so many white women voted for him anyway. him anyway harbor freight, we do business differently from the other guys. we design and test our own tools and sell them directly to you. no middleman. just quality tools you can trust at prices you'll love. nothing comes close to this place in the morning. i'm so glad i can still come here.

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>> if you can remember all the way back to donald trump's first impeachment, you might remember these guys, alexander and eugene, twin brothers, both immigrants and both served on the national security council, they were among the first to raise concerns about trumps efforts to pressure ukrainian president zelenskyy for dirt on biden, after the impeachment, both brothers were unceremoniously fired by president trump, but tonight, nbc news can project that

eugene has won a tight race to be the next member of congress for virginia's seventh congressional district, it is one of a handful of swing districts that help to keep the house of representatives competitive despite donald trump's victory, at this hour, republicans are still seven seats shy they need for the majority but even if they get a small majority, house speaker mike johnson will face the same problem republicans have faced for the last two years, an ungovernable house where anyone member has the power to throw everything into chaos. joining me now is a man who knows chaos, brendan, first of all, do you think there's any reason to believe that the ruckus house conference becomes any less ruckus if there is a republican in the white house? do you think the pattern

somehow changes? >> i think there will be a little more discipline, donald trump has a lot more sway, more than mike johnson does for sure, but i think the important distinction, this majority is going to be significantly smaller than what we dealt with when donald trump was first president, i was reminded, eight years ago, we went to meet with donald trump to talk about our agenda because he was the president-elect at the time, trying to get him to understand this is what we were going to do and he basically said, you figure that part out, i trust you to be in charge of the legislative agenda. i don't think that is going to happen this time around, he is calling the shots, so he's going to put this on mike johnson to execute, however, we had the seat majority back then, and we failed on healthcare because we didn't have the votes. they can't get rid of anything on their own right now, i don't know why they are trying to do even bigger things, they were doing nothing of consequence

the last couple of years, now you are talking about big things and no margin of error, it is going to be very difficult for mike johnson.>> and they have a new rule that anyone member can force to vacate or oust the speaker, on the one hand you would think donald trump would like stability in the house, on the other hand, trump loves people getting fired, do you think that role changes?>> i can't imagine it changes, they will think that is the accountability of the speaker to hold them in line. i do think that back then, in 2017, there were a lot of freedom caucus guys giving them problems in tribe -- nobody is going to stand up to donald trump in the house, the problem is, there aren't a lot of moderates left, this is a very uniform congress, maybe it is not a problem for them, maybe the house has remade their image and there's not a lot of

independent types, liz cheney and paul ryan's are not around. >> losing anyone intimate or means you lose the majority, hakeem jeffries becomes the speaker of the house, do you read into the fact that the republicans did a net of two seats so far but democrats have at least one republican seat that hasn't been called, hakeem jeffries said the house isn't in play, even if it goes to the republicans, it is going to be incredibly narrow and i wonder if that tells you anything in a moment when donald trump gets re-elected resoundingly, what do you read of that disparity? >> any new president is going to say, he could have a two seat majority in the house and he's going to say they have a mandate and there's not going to be any bipartisanship. i think the culture of that conference, the idea that

senator amy klobuchar was working on, there might be some margins. and they are going to say, if the senate is trying to do bipartisan things, the house is going to say we don't want you to bring that up on the floor, we have no interest, we just got elected to majority, we were given a mandate to do conservative things and that is going to be the entire mind-set of the entire conference.>> for at least two years, i just wonder how much you think this is going to be for a go for broke strategy knowing full well that they could be ousted, again, it is a one seat majority in 2022 point >> i don't know exactly what the house republican conference agenda is other than the tax bill, preserving the tax law, that is going to be the priority. the things that donald trump says he wants to do are mostly things he can do himself, tariffs, deportations , but it's going to be finding the funding from the government,

those are the things that republicans have run into a wall, that is the interesting dynamic. there is a government funding deadline at the end of the year, they are probably going to extend it into next year, reality is going to catch up to them, they are not going to be able to pass funding for the government, they are going to need democrats. they are going to come to hakeem jeffries and say i need you to pass funding , and that is going to be very interesting to see whether or not they will tolerate needing to make deals like that, that is the same thing kevin mccarthy kicked out, meeting with democrats for funding from the government.>> thank you for offering your wisdom on all of this. still tonight, donald trump ran against the first black woman, by targeting her with vulgar violence sexism, white men voted for him but so did white women, why exactly? that is next. is next

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>> for 107 days, we watched a presidential race between one candidate who might have been america's first female president and another who will

be america's first felon president, during those 107 days, kamala harris didn't mention her gender but donald trump and his surrogates stilted, this was a real add taken out by elon musk super pack.>> kamala harris is a c word, you heard that right.>> that meant communist and not the actual c word, but you would be forgiven for not believing that if you caught any of trump's campaign rallies.>> her and her handlers will destroy our country.>> she never worked there but i did, i did a little bit.

>> this place is amazing.>> she is a very low iq individual, she is dumb as a rock and you can't have that.>> the worst vice president, kamala harris, you are fired. >> then there were the threats of violence directed at vice president harris.>> i know mike, he is a great guy, mike tyson, mike has gone through a lot, he can fight, let me tell you, but could you imagine mike, put mike in the ring with kamala, that would be interesting. >> she would be so easy for them, she would be like a play toy, they look at her and they

say we can't believe we got so lucky.>> she would be paralyzed why the generals have their way with her.>> the misogyny is not a new phenomenon, it was a big part of his political origin story.>> you have called women you don't like fat pigs, dogs, slobs and disgusting animals, your twitter account -- >> only rosie o'donnell.>> no, it wasn't. >> you might remember how he reacted from that question from megyn kelly the very next day.>> you could see there was blood coming out of her eyes, blood coming out of her wherever.>> trump was confronting the possibility that women might come out and vote against him in significant numbers, so on the eve of the selection, trump recruited a familiar face to help him

out.>> he will be a protector of women and that is why i'm voting for him. what i don't want and what i don't think you want is the last version of masculinity. i'm not into their version of toxic masculinity or new masculinity, i prefer the old version. all of you, and i prefer a president who understands how to be strong and how to fight.>> more women voted for donald trump in 2024 than 2020, white women voted 53% for donald trump. talk about how that happened, coming up next with shannon watts, the organizer of white women answer the call and maya wiley, stay with us. with us. (spe ing to self) about our honeymoon. what about africa? safari? hot air balloon ride? swim with elephants? wait, can we afford a safari? great question.

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>> guess what, guys win again, okay, then win again, we control your bodies. there will never be a female president ever, it's over, glass ceiling, a ceiling made of bricks, you will never break it, your stupid face keeps hitting the brick ceiling, we will keep you down forever, you will never control your own bodies.>> that is how at least some male trump supporters are

celebrating his win by continuing the degrading and threatening behavior that was a hallmark of the trump campaign, the question is, what about the women who voted for donald trump? joining me are maya wiley, and shannon watts, founder and organizer of white women answer the call, thank you for being here. a few moments ago we were talking about the numbers of white women who voted for donald trump, and the reality is that more women voted for, first of all, white women voted for donald trump and similar numbers to previous election cycles before even the most threatening and misogynistic and violently sexist behavior and rhetoric came out of his mouth, but also women overall voted in greater numbers for hillary clinton man kamala harris, do you have a theory on why that might be?>> first, let's say this, women are not a

monolith, black women came out in droves for kamala harris, came out in droves for hillary clinton although there were places in which black voters did not come out to vote enough in the first place, those are different issues. and by the way, when all the focus was on black men and what are black men going to do, and the rest of us were sitting going, black men typically outvote white women for the candidate that has and shares more interests with women, and there is less of a gender gap between black men and black women than any other racial group, the only reason i'm saying that is because it is a super important point because the reality of how complicated gender is in these races are that a lot of that misogyny for black women was also about race. was also about our understanding, remember that

halloween parade where firefighters decided it was fine to have a grown man dressed as trump dragging a grown woman dressed as kamala harris in chains behind him, that was race and gender, the one we have known and has been true for a very long time in our voting history, is that there are white women who vote their ideology, that includes their gender and there are white women who do not. the white women who do not are voting their race as opposed to their gender and we are seeing that in this election cycle as well, that means we should not put all women in a single category. it is a more complex story but at the end of the day, to see any of these images or hear this language and you didn't even play all of it, you didn't play the one where trump started to say the b word and got the entire crowd to call the sitting vice president of

the united states the b word, in addition to whatever slurs they have, but i don't think we can understand that separate and apart from whether we are voting our interests or not and far too often, the relationship between patriarchy and gender, racism, come together and we see these differences every time.>> that explains why white women are more comfortable voting. in eight years, she finds herself on a stage in pennsylvania in the closing days of the campaign, not only endorsing him but endorsing the kind of masculinity that he and the mega movement represent and the white women follow her lead. do you have a thesis on how and

why that has happened?>> white women avenue -- as a majority have loaded as a majority in all but two elections in the last 75 years or so, the hope was that they would have seen what had happened in the trump administration, that they would come to kamala harris and support her because of all the promises she made to support women, clearly white women are a part of this systemic patriarchy in this country and they hope, some of them hope, many of them hope they will benefit from it, as maia said, white women are not a monolith, the one silver lining, and there wasn't much, but it was that one of the three groups that outperformed for kamala harris as opposed to joe biden were college educated white women. unfortunately there are not enough to swing an election but

i think this has to be a very real conversation that we have about how we change the hearts and minds of these non-college education white women so they will vote the right way in the future. the other way i want to say is it is disheartening to hear people say that this is somehow a reason or the lesson is that we can't have a woman at the top of the ticket. that in itself is misogyny and racism and it is very unfair because her campaign was almost flawless and it should prove the opposite, we need more women running, not fewer.>> i want for a moment to talk about this loss of allyship in a very desperate time, that not only were white noncollege educated women voting for trump, they were voting against the interest of their black and brown sisters and parts of the country where their lives are in danger, whether because of healthcare deserts, abortion deserts or any other factor, it

is a phenomenon that happens increasingly as women get married and the plight of black and brown women in this country expense well past kamala harris. and your piece in the new york times, not only have black women always been on the menu but they have been eating us and it has been happening for generations, what this represents for black women right now is it has deepened and been given significantly more permission. how should people of color, women of color, how should we think about this moment and what lessons should be drawn from it, given how i think demoralizing it is in the cause of equity and equality and just justice?>> the thing about black women. >> yes, please tell me, maya.>>

black women show up all the time for what is right for people, for families, for communities, black women showed up for women's suffrage when we knew we would still have to fight for our own, if white women won that suffrage, we still showed up. this is a pattern of history and we are going to keep showing up, but i think this is the point, we keep trying to model that we are all in this together. if we don't bleed out in a parking lot, you are going to bleed out in a parking lot, if we can't take care of our children, you can't take care of your children. we are more often in the category of worrying about whether our children are going to survive, worrying if we are going to survive pregnancy but no matter what our differences, at the end of the day, we are constantly working on coalition. constantly, and i think the issue is, and shannon said it

so well, it is not whether or not women should be at the top of the ticket, it is whether or not we are ensuring women are educated and one of the things that is happening in the dialogue, education is getting to have a bad word like elitism. there's nothing elitist about saying you shouldn't have to rely on your grandparents to take care of your children. you should be able to retire and know you will be okay, we should note that if the cost of sales tax goes up, it is going to harm all of us and whether our kids are learning history is going to be good or bad because it is going to be based on whether we are learning it or whether it is barred from us. so at the end of the day, if this is about the same thing, it has always been about, we have to find each other. and women have to find each other and it is women who are going to solve the problem.>> it always is. much respect to the men who are trying to solve the problem.

please come back, we have so many more questions for you, thank you for your time and thoughts in this moment of big questions. still to come this evening, rudy giuliani is the latest trump ally to face potentially severe punishment for actions he took on trump's behalf and there is still much trump can do about it, the same goes for trump's own legal entanglement where he soon may have to pay the piper. lisa rubin will explain all of that coming up next. up next. ♪ that just will never come out ♪ ♪ pour downy in the rinse, jade ♪ ♪ every now and then i rinse it out! ♪ fights odor in just one wash.

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the reality is, this case is obviously a political vendetta just the mere fact that it is a $145 million judgment, i am very, very disappointed that this judge doesn't take seriously, how ridiculous the judgment is. >> if rudy giuliani sounds a little rattled there, that is because today, a federal judge threatened to hold him in contempt of court for squirreling away assets he has been ordered to turn over to ruby freeman and shay moss, the two georgia election workers he defamed after the 2020 election. now, their lawyer told the court that giuliani has yet to share the whereabouts of his worldly possessions, while simultaneously flouting the court order by driving around palm beach on election day in the vintage mercedes convertible that he owes to freeman and moss.

giuliani has not only lost his ability to practice law in new york and washington, d.c., as well as ownership of his new york city home, he now also stands to lose his freedom. as for the guy on whose behalf giuliani has incurred all of these punishments, it is an open question whether or not he will pay any price at all. joining me now is lisa rubin, msnbc legal correspondent. lisa, please, let's dig into the absolute absurdity, the farce that is rudy giuliani, hiding valuable assets to avoid having to give them to ruby freeman and shay moss. is he going to be held in contempt of court? >> if he doesn't turn a list of what he has and how to actually transfer them to ruby freeman and shay moss' lawyers by monday, he will be held in contempt of court. you and i were talking during the break about how he was already supposed to turn over these assets to them last week. he had seven days to do so, he didn't comply with that. and in between, the ladies'

lawyers went to the apartment, opened up the key -- >> the giuliani apartment? >> the giuliani apartment in new york city, they found that it basically had been denuded of all of the valuables that they were -- that he was supposed to turn over, and they were expecting to find therein. between that and the fact that they saw the same picture you and i saw of rudy giuliani driving up to trump's polling place in his vintage 1980 mercedes that once belonged to laura mccall, they asked the court for a hearing immediately, saying, he is playing games point mike dare he is! yes, you should not count this anymore. >> the flouting of the court and the agreement to me suggests that rudy believes he can be saved somehow, that the law doesn't apply to him, here. but, this is a civil case, right? >> it is a civil case where he owes $146 million, with interest building. and if rudy giuliani could not get donald trump to pay him a

$2 million claim for his legal services during the 2020 election post., i don't think that donald trump is going to walk in and save the day and pay this judgment for him. and short of that, alex, there is nothing that would get rid of this. you cannot disappear civil liabilities by being president. can't get rid of civil cases, and you can't get rid of state criminal ones, either. >> can we talk a little bit about civil cases as they pertain to donald trump? because he is still on the hook for $450 million in civil fines for his business fraud case in new york. what is happening, there? >> that case is on appeal, but as it is on appeal, the interest is mounting. you and i both remember that several months ago, he had to post a bond that was reduced by an appellate court to about $175 million and not the full totality of that 400+ million dollar judgment. but, if he loses, similarly, donald trump will owe it to letitia james and the state of new york, $450 million plus in that judgment and that is not to say anything of the two e jean carroll vertex where he

owes her $90 million, those cases are also on appeal. it is possible donald trump could win those appeals and i don't want to discount that, but if those judgments are all upheld, we are talking about a universe in which donald trump owes more than a half billion dollars to two women alone. >> wow. i mean, he also has a deliberation that is happening, judge juan merchan who oversaw trump's hush money case is, i believe, he has given himself until november 12th to determine whether or not to toss the case, now that donald trump is president-elect, how much do you think that affects merchan's deliberations? >> i don't think it affects his deliberations with respect to the conviction itself, i think it was more my heavily on him if he sustains the verdict with respect to the sentencing and you can expect and i certainly expect to see an application of some sort by donald trump's lawyers asking him to either postpone the sentencing or never hold it, because it would be improper, it would raise constitutional concerns, to

sentence a president elect. i think the big question on everybody's mind is, when that application comes, what is manhattan d.a. alvin bragg going to do? is he going to create that the sentence should be held in abeyance during trump's presidency? you can put a four year pause on it, for example, on the sentencing or you can just agree that he doesn't need to be sentenced at all as long as the conviction holds. my guess is that alvin bragg's team wants to be vindicated with respect to the actual conviction, whether or not trump is sentenced, may mean less to them. >> well, we are in cognitive as we say, lisa. >> oh, are we? >> you are our guys through all of it, thank you for your time tonight, my friend bert >> thank you. >> that is our show for this evening, now it is time for "the last word" with the great lawrence o'donnell. good evening, lawrence. good evening, alex. i heard your discussion earlier about all of the racism, personal racism directed at kamala harris as a candidate, and it is fascinating to listen to all of these pundit discussions that appear over