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♪♪ everybody, welcome back to "the weekend". now it is no surprise this is a time of reflection and reassessment for democrats. but before the blame game gets

out of hand, republican strategist matt dowd writes that vice president kamala harris actually over performed well trump underperformed in this election. what happened? dowd says president biden's job approval on election day was 40% in this weight of negativity was too much for harris to overcome. she never had a chance to separate herself from him in any separate -- significant way. while ballots are still being counted at the moment, trump actually received fewer votes this year than he did in 2020. here is one of our next guest, leah daughtry, speaking with symone earlier this year at the nbc black america special. >> our nation does not become, does not fulfill its promise and does not become the perfect union because she wins or loses. >> that's right. >> there will still be more work for us to do, particularly as black women.

if she wins, we have a partner. that will help us do that work. she doesn't win, we fight harder, more armor, but the fight continues because we got a lot of work to do to make this country fulfill its promise. >> joining us now are the distinguished professor at princeton university and him -- msnbc contributor eddie glaude and chief of staff leah daughtry. welcome. >> we know you all were hearing our last conversation but folks at home, yeah, we will pick up with that. five and aaron are booked for next week. sorry, guys. what do you think about the conversation we were having, let's build on that and

obviously, the bishop office great words. in that conversation, that happened in august, prior to the convention. >> first of all, it is great to see you this morning. i thought the conversation was interesting and interesting in the very way of avoiding or evading the push, really trying to get at what does it mean to attend to this, democrats, what do they want? of course, there is this idea all this will be toxic masculinity, but what does it mean to attend to an electric? that whole set of views that might not be constant with a broader understanding of a just society. if a notion of manhood is predicated upon an idea that women ought to be subordinate, if the notion of manhood is predicated upon a certain understanding of sexuality that will lead to a further alienation of further segments of society, what does it mean to align oneself to that? what does it mean to speak to that? i think how we unpack it is really important. people are suggesting, symone,

michael and --, we should be more attuned to what is going on in the electric. we need to unpack what is going on in the electric and ask ourselves whether or not it is just. we will be in a different position in terms of how we respond, organize and mobilize. >> picking up on that point, understanding what is going on in the electric, you, we came in with your quote about, you know, if she wins, we have a partner, if she loses, we have more work to do. i would tell you if she had won, we would have more work to do because this system is proving itself to not be good on so many levels. tukey eddie's point we are just throwing these numbers out of this election that this group and that group did not support her because no one spoke to them. what is it that should be said to them? i think telling us what they want us to hear or is it just, i mean, i go on the podcast and

i am on joe rogan's podcast, what am i saying? >> you know, i think part of the undertone, first of all, thanks for having me, i am glad to be out of the house. but, you know, i think what was missing in the frankness of the conversation is the thing no one wants to say, particularly the young, white men who don't see themselves in the party. my question is, is it because they don't want to deal with women in positions of power, which is what the democrat often has, nancy pelosi, kamala harris, do they not want to deal with issues of race? is that what is making them uncomfortable? does that make them feel like they don't belong or can't see themselves in the democratic party? until we are ready, as a country, to have the difficult conversation about race, about how this country has shifted and is going to continue to shift and that our government

has to be representative of the plurality of the american society. we have to have those honest conversations and we will keep standing in this mud patch for the next however long because they are not being honest about what is going on. >> there is a beautiful piece in the "new york times" an op- ed, the title is, black america has revealed to us her true self. it is affirmed the worst of what many black women believed about their country, that it would rather choose a man who was convicted of 34 felonies, has spewed lies and falsehoods, disparage women and people of color and pledged to use powers of the federal government to punish people of color and send them to the white house. leah? >> i can't tell you how many emails i got from women who are

in prominent positions in this country, this party, in their businesses who said, yet again, america has shown me that i am not worthy. i am not deemed worthy. no matter my qualifications, no matter what i have done, no matter what i have achieved, i am still considered unqualified. i think hillary clinton might have the same testimony. i think, the loss is stinging but it is stinging even more because of who we lost to, a convicted felon, someone who is spewing hatred every single day against the ideals we certainly believe in as americans. to have someone who has worked in every branch of government, judicial, legislative, executive, coming with the kind of experience he has, to lose to someone who is clearly beneath her, clearly unqualified, clearly inept, is especially stinging. >> eddie, i want to take that and sort of narrow it down a

little bit. i was struck very much by a number of interviews that very talented reporters and hosts did this past week, talking to, particularly, you know, hispanics and african americans about their view of the election and one of the things that struck me is that david noriega having a conversation with the alvarez family with working-class latino family from supporters, take a listen. >> i noticed that he was not scared to say what he felt, regardless of what people would say. i respect that about him. >> reporter: win trump promises mass deportations, do you worry about that? >> yes, i will. the ones i know are doing good. they are not breaking any laws. >> he will start deporting all the bad people. ♪ ♪ >> they know that when you come here illegally, you have broken the law so, you know, trump has

sort of set up this bifurcated narrative that we are going after the people who basically kill young, white girls but also, we are going after the people who come here illegally. you have folks who have family sitting there legally saying, he is not coming for me because he is going after the bad people, as she said. we are doing good. those of us, we are doing good. we are not breaking any laws. help us unpack that a little bit and understand what we are hearing here when people think it doesn't apply to them what is about to come. >> right. i wish they would all read james baldwin's letter to angela davis that said in the

night they will come for you to understand what is really happening. what is really interesting for me, my, there is a willful ignorance in regards to what motivates the current debate around immigration. of course, there is all this argument about the broken immigration system, that is really a frontal kind of, it is not a red herring, but a way of framing an ongoing debate aimed at eight divided immigration regime put in place in 1965, the immigration act of 1965. a lot of people want to go back to the immigration landscape of 1924 which was an immigration landscape. they don't want to admit the replacement theory is driving this. tucker carlson said this in madison square garden as part of the closing argument. then there is this understanding, you have to be clear, when we use the category latino, we actually often assume there is no rationalization within the category. that whiteness is not operative and so often times what we hear is naivety, often what we hear is disinformation and often what we hear is aspiration.

aspiration to whiteness and a differentiation from them. we are not them. we are not them, we are one of you. part of what we have to understand in the way race, to echo the bishop, the way race and gender continue to animate this discussion, one, two, the willful, willful ignorance, right, the willful, how baldwin would say, innocence constitutes the crime, the willful denial about what is motivating the immigration debate on that side and that is this idea that the browning of america means that white people will lose their standing. >> eddie and leah, stick with us, when we continue, we will have borne this conversation right after this. ♪ ♪ . ♪ ♪

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eddie glaude and leah daughtry of polk -- are both back with us. trump just realigned the entire political map. democrats have no easy path to fix it. in short, trump has been able to engineer a near wholesale rightward shift in the

electorate in ways he could not in 2016 or 2020. the trends have blown up long- held democratic and republican narratives about how americans vote. it's leading democrats to sound the alarm about the party's future as trump's america great again movement grew to become the most diverse gop coalition in generations and gave trump the most divisive victory for gop presidential nominee in decades. do you buy that? how are you thinking about this movement and how much of this do you think is an actual realignment and how much do you think is very trump specific? >> well, i don't quite buy it because president trump got exactly the same number of votes he got in 2020 so there wasn't a growing of the number of people who voted for him. what democrats have to look at is why is it 10 million of our voters max stayed home? where were they? what happened? that was a failure on our part of messaging and also, just in the tactical strategy of turnout, of voter identification and getting people out to vote. this wholesale where he drove all of

these people in all of these new voters, he got the same number he got the last time. we've got work to do on what happened to our tactics, what happened to our strategy? what happened to identifying voters where they are. what about happening to people who voted for us last night who just sat out this time? >> i think that is such a key and important point because to matthew dowd's piece, as we started this hour, trump got less, he underperformed his vote from 2020. the difference makers in this election were the 10 million democrats or independent voters who did not support us. i also take exception to this idea that what trump did was orchestrated and a shift in the electorate, what trump did is take advantage of the shift in the body of the politic and the electorate that has been

happening for quite some time. he saw how to maneuver and position himself and saw that opening with young men and in the platforms that democrats largely ignored. they did not play in the digital verse the way republicans have for some time. talk, if you can, about this idea of this rightward shift. i always looked at the country is mostly center-right in its understanding, meaning that with fiscal matters, there are more conservative and for social issues, more moderate. as a paternalistic view of the country, and how we look at each other. >> i think this is a really important question. we need to shift from why did vice president harris lose to what kind of country are we? i think what we have seen over the last number of years and trump is this toxic

combination of selfishness, greed and hatred. in some ways, it is all about an evisceration of any notion of the public good, an idea that my young concerns, my own well-being animates how i move about the world, the notion of my relationship to my fellows, what is the notion of baseline understandings of who we are and our obligations to each other? all of that is just out the door. people are just out for themselves. when you have portions of the electorate that are selfish, i don't care if it is a comic or you have folks who are greedy or billionaires who want to control everything and then you have folks who are fearful that the country is changing. what donald trump has done, he has, shall we say, exploited that. we also need to say in light of that shift, we can call it neoliberalism, but the obama coalition may very well be dead. i do know this, too, the third

wave democrat is that. the interesting thing about the conversation we are having about this postmortem is that folks will lurch back to the right in regards to the democratic party but when they are going back to the right, they're going back to what the d.o.c. did, which is in effect concede the ground to reaganism, concede the ground to philosophy that produced this selfishness, this greed and intensification of hatred in some ways. part of what we have to do, i think i will be quick here, is to be honest about where we are. if we are honest about where we are, it is not about what kamala harris did not do, it is about who we are. >> we don't need you to be quick, take your time. this whole, yes, that is it. this is not about how can we, i have been very dismayed,

actually, by this whole working class voter conversation because our black people not working class? like, if it were really, if it were really about the issues, if it were really about the message, how did the message break due to black working- class people and it did not break due to the majority of anybody else? i see you white women and hispanic voters saying we voted for her. let me explain how this works. if something happens and somebody does something, i understand i didn't do it but we have to address everybody else. this is the box we are in. i understand there are white women that voted for kamala harris, baby, 52% of you all voted for donald trump. this was not the first time. >> the third time. >> this is the third time and we will come together and address this internally. i understand you did not do it

but enough people did that we have to have a conversation, that is just how it works. the opportunity for the democratic party apparatus is actually within the base of the party and the people that did not come out. you were riding the couch the entire election, the democrats were. the big question is, why is this insatiable need to go to, the immediate response was, okay, the party is just, you know, too progressive, too this, too that. you have democratic lawmakers out there saying whatever he thought he would say. my former boss, bernie sanders, he said it was for working- class people. that is actually not true. we can talk about it and that is probably not the conversation we're supposed to have but perhaps too much union and not enough workers. to be clear, i am sorry, i love the unions, i love them, they do good work, you better think a union for the 40 hour workweek and overtime pay but everybody in the country, because of some the laws in many places, everybody, there are not as many people that are

members of a union. if you are talking about union members versus workers, that is another thing. there are black and brown people in that category. this insatiable need to run towards people that have not voted, ever, not voted for you ever in recent history, since 1964 in mass, i don't understand. >> yeah, i think it is a conversation the party needs to have. you are right. the democratic party has not won white people since lbj. this idea that somehow we've got to go to this constituency every single time that has rejected the democratic party fornear 50 years, excuse me, lord . i think what the party has to do is admit that. it helps when you acknowledge the facts. admit that and figure out how do we get the balance right of appealing to the people who consistently turn out for us, who consistently show up for us

and have over these last several decades and do some persuasion with other people because when you talk to people about the issues what is clear is, even though white people that don't vote for us align with us on the issues but they don't like our candidates. there is this split we have with them. we have a lot of work to do on that and it starts with an admission of the truth. it starts with, hello, talk to the voters. with all due respect, a lot of people on capitol hill, they don't have the answers. >> let me just be clear. nancy pelosi, everybody talks about how she is so strategic, she did all of that when she was the speaker of congress but where is your calculator now? democrats are about to lose the day gone house. we played the sound of my podcast on how to deal with presidential politics but she helped to orchestrate it. she halved orchestrate -- helped orchestrate the very public demise of the president. thank god for joe biden. he came out and endorsed his vp.

these people wanted an open primary. for what? >> what are we going to have an open primary between july 21 when he stepped down and august 21 when the convention was going to happen? when was going to happen? clearly, they weren't looking at a calendar. >> look at the appeal they think we have. i hope they eke it out in the house but if they don't, the people that had so much to say about the president and the vice president earlier this summer, i think those people need to take a backseat. i think the strategists that made a whole bunch of money in the vice president's campaign and they need to take a backseat, okay. they need to get the robbie wolf treatment. he ran for office in 2016, goodbye. >> listen, we've got to talk to the folks who are actually doing work who were underfunded and overstressed but who are

doing the work on the ground talking to voters and we need their opinion. >> can i add just really quickly, and the democrats have to stop playing the game of representation as a cover, economic policies are simply just benefiting the top tier. you can put out a woman, person of color and think that is all you need to do. there has to be some substantive policies about that that can affect the lives of everyday, ordinary people who keep playing this and blaming the damn on the republicans. stop triangulating playing politics. >> that last part is exactly what is happening. welcome to our playground. >> we are well over time but it was well worth it. professor eddie glaude and leah daughtry bishop, thank you. next, we will talk about the senate race still too close to

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♪♪ turning now to pennsylvania. nbc news has yet to call the senate race in that state but republican dave mccormick is leading by about 40,000 votes. the margin is so narrow the state may go to a recount. joining me now is the chair of the pennsylvania democratic party sharif street and representative jordan harris. welcome to both. >> let's take a listen. >> we know the math was clear and there is no way for senator casey to win. the ap certainly recognized that yesterday by calling the race. senator casey will have to work through this but we have to move on to changing the direction of the country.

>> senator, again, nbc news has not called this race, the math is more complicated. tell me how you see it. >> there are still about 100,000 votes, 20,000 of which are in philadelphia county where senator casey is winning and big margins. it is too early to call the race. even mitch mcconnell would acknowledge that given the need for dave mccormick but people voted and their vote should be counted. the election should reflect the results, of course. a lot of people have voted and they want to know their votes are counted. >> virtually you had, you know, this was sort of that nip and tuck, you know, by the thumbnail kind of election. democrats did retain the one seat majority of the pennsylvania house, noting that incumbent representative frank burns eight republican amy bradley. talk about what that signifies in the face of still

up in the air a little bit on the u.s. senate race, donald trump winning the state the way he did, and yet, still the people said we want the democrats to hold the house. >> i think what you saw is a lot of the folks who were able to win have relationships in those communities that they go to church there, they go to supermarkets there and they have relationships with the people that are voting for them. i think the large narrative that we can't do this every four year electoral politics. we have to roll up our sleeves and be in our communities on an everyday basis, sharing with people what we are actually doing for them and how we are making their lives better. i think that is what you saw there. >> that is a good point for

democrats on a larger scale. going to our last conversation for the last three or four blocks now, young men and how they are perceiving of being in the system, the growth of the latino vote and its movement, one way or the other, it is that every day conversation i think that democrats nationally that a lot of voters did not see themselves reflected, not so much in the policies, but just in appreciation and understanding i am here. at least, that is what the polling is saying. >> i think there is a lot of misinformation in this electoral cycle. i don't know how some of my republican colleagues have been able to trick poor people into believing they care about poor people when their policies are extremely anti-poor people. that is not just a today thing, that is a larger piece we have continued to see. what that means is that you have to have trusted voices in those communities who are able to fight back these narratives and actually show the everyday person what they stand for, what they value. that is where our local elected

officials are able to do that more than somebody on a national level. look, we lost, as a party, up and down the ballot in pennsylvania. yet, we were able to maintain the house. the smallest segment of electoral politics because those people are in the community and were able to push back against the misinformation by showing up and showing you they actually are. >> senator street, you know, an operative, i have a lot of operative friends throughout the week this week and something that someone said to me, an operative in pennsylvania, they noted they can't lie to themselves. this is what they texted me. i am the press, but i also can't lie to myself and say i didn't feel these pitchers over the last two years. they thought they dodged a bullet with pennsylvania in the midterms, largely but that was not enough to make up for losing so much of our base. i think that is an important point. the president talks about

misinformation and disinformation. i don't know a person who did not see that and the ad that donald trump was running stuck with them. what is your take on really what happened in this election in pennsylvania specifically and what the pennsylvania democratic party and democrats at-large need to do going forward? >> look, yeah, there is a lot of misinformation. also, we are into, in our federal races, talking about all of the stuff out there. they talk about the issues with the state legislative it races. not only did we lose ground but we held the same number of seats in the state senate. where we are talking about things like bread and butter, here is what we did to bring down crime. people care about that, they can see that in their lives. what we did to make sure folks fixed up their local schools, issues people can see. people want to know what is

going on in my life today and the state legislative races, we echoed the governor and in the national races we talked about the issues that trump was talking about and as a consequence, we won. look , we should have been talking about issues. people are hungry. they are not thinking about the broader issues, not that they didn't agree with us but they were not focused on it. i think people went, black folks , you know, racism was the dealbreaker for the republicans but for a lot of republicans it wasn't. they are hungry, prices of groceries are high. our answer was, you know what, maybe they are at the state legislative races, crime is down and we invested into public safety programs. your schoolkids are doing better and we fixed up your block. that kind of response is why we won in 2022 across-the-board and

why we won in 2023. we won a bunch of county races and this year, the same people went to the polls and voted for a republican for the senate, a republican for congress in many cases and states in her and statehouse democrats. we have to look at that. it is the same things happening in the same cycle. last year was very different. that was all the same but the messaging was different. >> representative harris, at the same time a lot of these fights will be brought to you in the state legislature. i'm thinking about, you know, trump's mass deportation plan. you are ready have the governor of massachusetts, maura healy, saying i will not use the state police to round up immigrants.

i will be a shield for my residents. what is the biggest thing you see coming down the pike from the pennsylvania legislature? >> i think you will see that happen and i think you will see women's reproductive rights coming down. they have been trying to do that in pennsylvania for very long time. listen, the bottom line is this for us, we have been working to understand and move an agenda forward to help working-class people in pennsylvania. we, democrats, have been working for working-class people in pennsylvania and we have won. any notion we have lost touch with working-class folks, in my opinion, is just false. it is not true. i will say this, sometimes our party is too much starbucks and not enough dunkin' doughnuts. that is a problem we need to address. for example, we can talk about the economy and for many people if they have a 401(k) or whatever portfolio the country is doing but for somebody buying the same bottle of ketchup years ago that the price is now double, the economy does not look good for them. we understand that and we need

to get folks to know who is actually doing those things. it seems like some other folks didn't actually want to have that conversation we did not have the time to have that conversation. i think that is what we really didn't see the numbers that we should have seen with regards to our candidates because we know that vice president kamala harris had an actual plan. you look at the barbershop conversation we did, she talked about that. that is why they showed up for her. i just had to get that out, as well. working-class people have seen us and we have to make sure we are getting on the ground, talking to them, talking to them in a vernacular they know. >> representative harris, i have to tell you, your reply got claps and snaps so you are onto something. thank you, representative sharif street and representative jordan harris, thank you both. >> next we are joined by congresswoman debbie dingell for a conversation only on "the

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♪♪ we shift our focus now to michigan, where nbc news predicts democrat alisa spock and won the open senate seat. that is where the good news ends for democrats in the state. michigan congresswoman debbie dingell said this week, quote, democrat shouldn't do the blame game. they should do the what are we doing right , all of us? congresswoman debbie dingell joins us now. >> congresswoman, you have been very clear, you always given to the people straight. tell us what happened and what do we do going forward? particularly in michigan? >> well, good morning to everybody. let's be clear, michael, i did not say we have to ask what we are doing right, i said, what aren't we doing right? i have been saying it for a while. we don't have the traditional

democratic support. we have some of the union votes back but they don't think we care about what they care about. i go to kroger every sunday morning. people know i will be there and they come and talk to me. we've got a problem in the african american community. i have a number of my younger pastors and others who are tired of being taken for granted. don't come to us in october. i said, i will come to you next week. i will, by the way. we will be talking to them all the time. we've got a strong message from the hispanic community. michigan is particularly complicated because of the mideast issue where people on all sides are hurting, are angry and are raw. they did not know who they would support. each of those segments we lost,

we didn't get as many women as we thought we would. we've got to go out and do some real soul-searching and listening and be ready so in two years we can win. >> let's talk about the implications of what we saw from the ap democrats' loss trifecta. michigan democrats will lose their historic trifecta for republicans gained the majority in the state house of representatives. democrats still hold the majority in the senate meaning that most, if not all of governor gretchen whitmer fs agenda is in jeopardy. >> what does that mean? >> she will try to work with them. i think there are places that, look, i will work on this. the governor will work on this. we will work out this and keep michigan strong. we will be bringing jobs home

and in the rural communities. some things we will not be able to get done, but i do think there are places for common ground. that was part of the message sent to us this week. they are tired of seeing everybody fighting. they are worried about a lot of stuff and they want to see us working to get stuff done. >> on that stuff done side of it, you know, when you look at and you referenced the hispanic community and certainly, the african american community needs to go on there, but pull it back. there were roughly 10 million plus democrats who stayed home. clearly, it wasn't just blacks and hispanics where democrats had a problem. they still have a problem with white women, who, for the third time, sided with the serial sexual predator. and the one who took away their access to abortion rights.

do you think there is something else here that should be paid attention to other than this sort of meat and potatoes on the ground with respect to policy? what else do you suspect is going on with democrats, at least that is perceived with democrats, by the broader community of voters out there, including your own base, a significant portion of them stayed home? >> look, we have to go out and listen to them with what they are saying to us. i do believe it was the economy, by the way. when it comes down to it, it is the economy, the economy, the economy. i am talking to a lot of women. women's health decisions, they are worried about how they can get milk and eggs and how they can get groceries. it is a major issue. i will reach across the aisle.

childcare is expensive. plus, people can't find it. and, senior care is becoming a real crisis. the sandwich generation is worried about their parents and their loved ones. you can't find people to care for them. they don't think anybody cares. we all talk about these issues but both sides are guilty of it. there are too many bills in congress, we got two bills going nowhere. they want to see us do something about the economy, jobs, they want to bring the supply chains home and i think that is what we've got to be talking about. >> all right. congresswoman debbie dingell of michigan, thank you very much. your insights, as always, are much appreciated. >> we have much more to discuss

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♪♪ okay. positivity, y'all. positivity. how about this? november 5, 1968, that presidential election with the same election where richard nixon was elected president and shirley chisholm became the first black woman ever elected to the united states congress. i think their legacies for both were on the ballot in this 2024

election and many things can happen. yes, vice president harris was unsuccessful in her bid for the presidency, however, angela alsobrooks is now senator elect, now the junior senator from maryland. lisa rochester now the jr. senator from delaware, two black women in the united states senate. thanks to the naacp, should mari figures who will be joining our show sometime this weekend is now a congressman going to the united states house of representatives. two new black members of congress and united states from louisiana are going to the house of representatives, thanks to the work of people organizing and demanding their voices be heard and i just think a lot of things are happening. so, there you go. >> she dug deep. she dug deep on that one, michael. >> she did. this one came from under the table. right on top. i appreciate all that, but it is still belies some fundamentals. the fundamentals of this campaign were right for kamala harris.

people discount now what she did in 107 plus days. i think the second-guessing is not helping because it clouds the conversation. you've got to look at those elements that did not align themselves around the 10 million people who did not show up. that is the weak spot. you can get into black folks over here, hispanics over there, that up there, you have 10 million folks that were on your, in your room, four years ago and they left your room this time around. you have to understand why that was, i think. >> i just want to thank everyone here for not making it -- i have seen some heartaches, one little thing would have changed everything. i absolutely don't buy that. thank you both. grab some more caffeine.

yes, another hour of "the weekend" still ahead. we will talk to george conway, ruth ben-ghiat and rachel sweet. you are watching "the weekend" on msnbc. ♪ ♪ c. ♪ ♪

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