unwarranted persecution. i think that hopefully, the people around donald trump will remind him that it is the reality and if they don't, he will come up against the hard truth. this is an area where reality bites. >> thank you for being with us this morning it is important to get these perspectives because there are a lot of people who are not sure what the future look like and he turned to people like you for a bit of a road map. we appreciate you. lawrence tribe is professor emeritus at harvard law school, the author of many important books including american constitutional law and to end the presidency, the power end good morning.he power end it is saturday, november the 9th. politics is easier for us when

the democratic ideals we cherish triumph or persist, but to be politically engaged, which you are if you are watching me right now, is to not only risk losing an election, but to be prepared and willing to lose an election. to be politically engaged is it put it all on the line knowing full well that the outcome, at least the immediate outcome, might not be the one for which you worked so hard. i know the story well. i learned it when i was 11 years old working on my father's first campaign in canada. i learned on election night in canada in 1981, on the car on our way home where we had gone to freshen up, on the car to the campaign headquarters. we expected the results to take a while to come in. we were in the car and turned on the radio. the host said it's too early to tell who will form the government, but based on history

and demographics and exit polling, they were able to project the result in one constituency. the one my dad was contesting. and what they announced in the first minute of the broadcast was that he had lost. it was just the two of us in the car. little 11-year-old me was devastated. i looked at my dad and said i can't believe we lost. he turned his attention away from the road to look at me and smiled and said of course we lost. i said why did we do this? because we could. more people voted for the other guy than for me. it's okay. life goes on. now, you can imagine that blew my 11-year-old mind, but he appreciated something i didn't at the time. he had grown up in apartheid south africa where he couldn't vote because of the color of his skin let alone run for office. he ran because that's what civic engagement looked like to him,

knowing full well he would lose. he conceded his election moments later that night and i learned what civic engagement meant. i'm a little older, he ran again and won. making history to be the first of his kind to win such an office. but that was not as instructive to me as his initial loss. the night of that loss in 1981 cut depth and this week, i felt the depth of that cut. tuesday was different from november 8th, 2016, the night trump was first elected. that felt like an accident. this didn't. this time, there was so much on the line. women are dying. the earth is burning. wars are being waged. democracy really is on the brink and i am fairly certain this country will see some dark days ahead. but you know what i don't know? i don't know where we are in the effort to forge a stronger

democracy and a more perfect union. just as the rebel colinists didn't know in lexington, massachusetts. or on september 3th, 1883, when the revolutionary war ended with the signing of the treaty of paris. you can only know how these things end in hindsight. not while you're in the middle of it. tuesday was not the end. history is deep with examples of people who fight through the darkness in the glow of candle light. people know that defeat paves the way for triumph. in fact, many of whom fought in defense of human rights and freedom liberty and democracy themselves did not live long enough to enjoy the fruits of their labor, but the seeds were planted. they understood it was just as important to keep going.

we do this, we fight, not simply for ourselves but for the future of democracy. conflict often produces change. but change is slow. often not looking like change at all. and in the case of this week, looking a whole lot like a setback. but today's setbacks are tomorrow's comebacks and the comeback is our work now. as my father taught me, the fact that your side didn't win is not a loss. it is simply a sign that your work isn't done. it may never be done because democracy is dynamic. we'll confront issues in the future that we didn't know were issues today and we will continue to fight. in the fight for democracy, the work is never done. this is not a moment to pull back from your engagement. this is the moment to pull back on things you can actually change. whether it's working to help women who live under an abortion ban or making your town a safe space for refugees fleeing

persecution or helping to end wars and oppression or keeping books on library shelves. these are all things you can do right now. this kind of work does not start or end based on the results of a presidential election. yes, the man who will step back into the white house on january 20th can and likely will do a lot of harm, but you can do more good than he can do harm. the president is not the most powerful person in america. the citizen is. now, i know that one of the toughest things to reconcile is half of america made a choice with which you inherently disagree. that threatens you in a tangible way. maybe you found out that a neighbor or friend voted for the guy who wants to take your freedoms away. that's a tough reality to come to terms with. as james baldwin said quote, we can disagree and still love each other unless you disagreement is rooted in my oppression. yes, votes were cast by people

who would oppress and deny the humiditity humanity of some of us, but that is not true of all who voted for donald trump. there are people who fell for his lives but who do not wish to see pregnant women bleeding out in parking lots or the earth burn or the immigrants deported. there is neither time nor space for cynicism about politics. the right to engage in politics is a privilege. one with which my parents did not grow up. it is a privilege we cannot give up and one of which we cannot tire. cynicism about politics is a luxury of those who have never had to experience life without it and if those people ever lost their ability to participate in the system, they would never again take it for granted. this is going to be a challenge. the end of the tunnel is there. it's just too far to see right now. so we will use flashlights until we get closer to the other side. but what you have, what we have,

is agency. we still have our voice. this is not the time to give up or give in or obey in advance. battles are lost. big battles. even in wars that are ultimately won. joining me now is timothy schneider, history professor at yale university, the author of thinking about newsletter on sub stack, of several important books on freedom and tyranny, 20 lessons from the 20th century. thank you for being here. you have been warning voters for a very long time that donald trump has the intentions of turning our country into an authoritarian state. you so much as urged voters not to choose him, but now we are here. how do you remain politically engaged with the possibility of another trump administration makes you feel really bleak right now? >> well, as you say, you have to be in the moment in order to get through the moment and of course, it's natural to be distressed or upset. but what you shouldn't be is

anxious or lonely. because that makes authoritarian ism possible. after all, donald trump is just one person. he's enmeshed in many difficulties from the beginning. i would add that the group of people that we elected along with donald trump, which means elon musk, peter teal, vladimir putin, jd vance, these people are not necessarily going to get along with one another over the long-term. it's easier for them to defeat the other candidate than it is to govern. what we need to be able to see is that he can't do it on his own. he can't do it without us. so that means we have to imagine all the little ways that we can fill in the gaps. we should speak not so much of guardrails, which that means he's bumping up against us all the time. but rather of wellsprings or safe houses or things we build together that flower, that

bloom, that encourage other people to act. and the other problem with the guardrails thing is that they're not there on their own. not just there by the side of the highway. the things that exist are going to be things we create. the institutions, the states as professor tribe rightly said, they're important, but they're more important when we believe in them, recognize their constitutional authority. but also when we lend them our ears, our time. we say oh, yes, we like what our state or city or city council is doing and we're going to support it along the way. >> you wrote a piece for commonwealth magazine in 2020 that could have been published a week ago. it says in this transition from democracy to authoritarian ism, the actual number of people who vote for trump matters less than it would in an ordinary election. in this scenario, it matters more how angry they are and how willing some are to endorse extraordinary actions by trump or to take such actions

themselves. talk to me about this mindset of donald trump voters and the fact that they might be feeling uniquely embolden right now. >> i think we're in an interesting moment because many of us as you say, are distressed because trump won, but the reasons why he won are very different from the reasons he might succeed in transforming our system into a different kind of system. so we have to shift from our distress into tactical thinking and into warm cooperation. meanwhile, his people or many of them any way, were geared up for the fact he was going to lose the election and extraordinary action would need to be taken. but he won, so why do the rest of us have to be rounded up? why should they storm the capitol? their guy's already there. in a certain sense, i think this is an opportunity. because when they come down in late january and say a whole

list of extraordinary things have to be done beginning with deportation, i think that's a good moment for people to say why. let's hold on. let's ask the courts. let's do nothing. let's talk to our neighbors about why this is really necessary because it isn't. >> your first point on tyranny do not obey in advance. for people saying it's not in advance anymore, he's still the president. that point still stays. it's about everything that tyrannical rule can do and every effort it makes. >> it's a lesson which comes directly out from the middle of authoritarian regimes. it comes from a german term. from hitler's transition to power. it comes from the middle of 1930s. it was recalled by the anti communist sidents of the

is the 70s. the whole idea is these people can't do it on their own and if you allow yourself to believe they can, then you're going to find yourself helping them or at least being passive. when you say don't obey in advance, it means who am i? what do i stand for? what's normal to me? what am i not going to do? you try to define your eality as a free person and that makes a huge difference. not despairing knowing what you think is right and not conforming in advance. unfortunately, we have a lot of examples around us of people doing that and we should note those examples and try to do the opposite as in previous segments people have said. do what state governors are doing. defy in advance. don't obey in advance. >> while it feels hopeless to some who may be watching and maybe some who aren't because they can't take any more news this week, the point is, you are not a different person than you were a week ago. the circumstances around you have changed by virtue of this election, but if you are fighting to preserve abortion

rights a week ago, you're still fighting for that. if you were fighting to keep books on shelves, you're still fighting for that. you remain the same person despite who becomes the president of the united states and who won control of congress. >> that is exactly what the lesson is. you have stated it so beautifully. but you have to make sure you remain that person, which is what freedom means. when things change around you, you continue to be that person and in so doing, you do constructive work, set an example for others, meet new people trying to remain themselves. i'm going to note an anniversary others aren't noting. this is 35 years ago, communism came to an end. not because the berlin wall fell, which is what people are talking about today. the berlin wall never fell. there was never some barrier which fell on its own. the reason it came to an end is because there was a messy authoritarian regime governed by

people who couldn't get along and they found ways to cooperate by a labor union in poe land. it was the cooperation, the non-obeying in advance which made conditions better. this is going to be true of all aspiring authoritarian regimes. they have their own problems and when we work together, we make the problems worse and give ourselves a chance. >> thank you for all the work you've done and efforts you've continued to take. and thank you for reminding us we do not have to accept things we do not wish to accept. timothy schneider, author of important books on freedom and tyranny. coming up, even against the backdrop of collapsing maternal healthcare, needless suffering and preventable deaths, the fight ahead of us is going to be harder and more important than ever. i'll talk to the president of the center for reproductive

rights, next. and we talked about the book club after the election. this morning, we're going to visit the story of a banned book that took a surprising turn. a story about the power of community and engaging with those who disagree with you. it is actor, activist, and author, malik's story. author, m. ♪♪ over 600,000 usps employees working in sync to ensure everything sent on its holiday ride ends with a moment of joy. ♪♪ the united states postal service. have you compared your medicare plan recently? with ehealth you can compare medicare plans side by side. so we invited people to give ehealth a try, and discover how easy it can be to find your medicare match. this is pretty amazing. very helpful. and i do like that it covers dental, vision, and hearing.

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got up this morning and smelled smoke. right now, you're looking at live shots of manhattan on the right. new jersey, manhattan, both cases, but on the left it's a shot from across the river into manhattan. that haze is smoke coming from multiple wildfires currently burning in new jersey and one that was burning overnight in brooklyn. i can attest that the smell of smoke is very strong right now. due to severe drought conditions, new jersey is

battling 306 wildfires or at least it has been since october 20th. compared to 28 fires that burned ore the same period last year. as we've discussed on the show, wildfires are fairly normal. they happen a lot. we just have a lot more of them than before. the drought is being felt across the entire northeast, sparking several unexpected fires. as i mentioned, last night, a brush fire. take a look at that picture. in brook lyn's prospect park. joining me from redding, pennsylvania, the site of yet another fire burning, george soliz. >> reporter: good morning. those are scenes we're used to seeing on the west coast, but there are so many of these brush fires happening in the northeast. here in redding, no exception. you can see the smoke in the mountains. firefighters here telling me the good news here is this there is a little bit of progress in

fighting this fire. about 100 homes were at risk. there were some evacuations that were ordered, especially in the morning hours and you can really see the glow and the orange embers in this fire in the mountains. they are actively working on the suppression. this could take four to five days, but the good news, the homes no longer threatened. this is all weather depending. as we know, winds can shift at any moment. obviously, the risk is still high and they're asking people they don't go into these areas. some of the biggest challenges as you can see, again, that is some heavily mountainous terrain. also, water. getting water into those areas, very difficult for the firefighters right now. we were told by one official that so far, one injury from the firefighter out there just because of that terrain, but they are expected to be okay. so serious conditions here. that fire over in brooklyn, prospect park, one official calling that the lungs of the city. and a lot of lungs this morning already filled with smoke. so we're really hoping to get

this under control as quickly as possible, ali. >> thank you so much, george. coming up, the path forward for women's health is one of the most difficult to contemplate. we're still watching women bleed and suffer and die under anti abortion regimes made possible by donald trump's first term. the second term is promising even more radical crackdowns. some of the fiercest fighters and best lawyers in the country are planning for january 20th and beyond. nancy northrop is one of them. she joins us next to talk about the plan. ext to talk about the plan leading strategists like us. when you want to invest with more confidence... the answer is j.p. morgan wealth management ♪♪ ♪♪ the black friday sale is now on. visit sandals.com or call 1-800-sandals

gum problems could be the start of a domino effect parodontax active gum repair breath freshener clinically proven to help reverse the 4 signs of early gum disease a toothpaste from parodontax, the gum experts. why use 10 buckets of water when you can use 1 fire extinguisher. and to fight heartburn, why take 10 antacids throughout the day when you can take 1 prilosec. for easier heartburn relief, one beats ten. prilosec otc. one pill. 24 hours. zero heartburn. since the supreme court overturned roe v. wade, abortion has been banned or restricted in 21 states across the country. not only have those encroached on womens' personal freedoms in a whole host of ways, they resulted in a tragic healthcare

crisis that's continuing to unfold today. many women have been denied life saving care because of their state's anti abortion laws. others who were carrying non viable pregnancies that threatened their fertility were forced to flee their home states. donald trump's first term was consequential and tragic for millions of women and everything i just described to you happened after he left office. the repercussions of the decision by the supreme court that reradically remade and now that he's poised to return to washington, there's every reason to be concerned that a second trump administration will go further to restrict women's abortion and reproductive rights. the blueprints include revoking fda approval of abortion plans to ban medication abortion which is used in the majority of abortion cases in the united

states today and criminalizing the shipping and transportation for those pills by enforcing the comstock act of 1873. there are also plans to restrict access to birth control and other forms of contraception and they want to clear the way for hospitals to deny emergency care to pregnant women who need it. this is a frightening new chapter in a post roe story. it's important to be clear eyed about the danger that lies ahead for women in this country but, it's also important to remember that the fiercest fighters and best lawyers are still here. they're still fighting. shortly after trump was declared the winner this week, nancy northrop released a statement that read in part quote, the center for reproductive rights is ready for this next fight. we will vigorously oppose any attempts to roll back progress, scrutinize the white house agencies, amass the record to

actions and work to stop harmful policies from going into effect. if they do, we will take them to court, end quote. i'm joined by nancy northrop. thanks for being with us. one of the reasons to talk to somebody like you or people in the fight is that none of this is new to you. none of you going back 200 years, 250 years this this country, have ever had the privilege of putting your weapons down. you have had to have, at some point, at some level, there's been a fight to preserve reproductive rights through the history of this country. >> yes, and i want to start with what you said, which are the hard truths that we do have to face right now. that it is really a deadly threat that donald trump poses to the already healthcare crisis in the united states on abortion access and reproductive health

generally. the thing is, you can't separate the two. we have obgyns flees states where there are abortion bans thus creating a maternal health desert. we have women with pregnancy that is go terribly wrong and as you've pointed out, bleeding out in their parking lots or sepsis in hospital emergency rooms. women being forced to carry to terms that are absolutely hopeless. the hard reality is there. it's also the fact we are looking at as you just pointed out, an attempt to cut off access to abortion pills that have been a lifeline. the attempt to reverse what the biden administration policy is to say that in emergency situations, you have to be able to get that healthcare in hospitals for pregnant people. so those are the hard ities, but also, and i really like what your last guest said. we're all waking up the next day. there is much to be done, and

the outcome of this election did show that once again, the voters of this country are very clear that they support abortion rights. a victory in missouri to put abortion rights in their state constitution, that is incredible. and so, you know, the elected officials better think twice about crossing what has been shown in state after state, is the will of the voters. they want their abortion rights that were taken away by the supreme court that donald trump put into office. >> yeah, it's an interesting. you talked about there were seven states that voted to enshrine abortion rights into their state constitutions. one of the ones in which it didn't pass was florida where i think 57% of people supported reproductive rights but set a 60% threshold that was difficult to overcome. weird because in places where they said they're going to support abortion rights, some

still cast their ballot for the person who took away abortion rights. >> you know, there's a lot of reasons that people vote for candidates. i think what we should really focus on is the fact that even in florida, right, 57%. that is a super strong majority. so even there, elected officials ought to be thinking twice before they cross those voters in florida. there's a threat that their six-week ban could become a total ban. well, their voters have just spoken about what they want in florida and the people they've sent to washington ought to think twice about crossing it. so what is clear, there will be lots of pundits that will try to figure out why it is that states like missouri and florida both voted for trump and had strong majorities supporting abortion rights, but what is clear is that strong majorities support abortion rights. i've been in this fight for a very long time and there has never been, never been, the

broad and wide and deep and vocal support for abortion rights. i mean, i remember years ago, you know, speaking to a member of the missouri senator and said you know, how should we talk about abortion rights in missouri? she said don't. well, in the last election, they didn't talk about abortion rights in missouri and not only, the voters said yes. we want them in our constitution. protected strongly. so this is a huge change. you know, from just a decade ago and people need to remember that and be doing what they can to continue to be vocal about their support. and make it clear that they are not going to go back on these rights. >> let me ask you. donald trump continues to talk about the states' rights but in fact, project 2025 and others have talked about a federal abortion ban. and a banning of medication abortion. would such a thing and we don't know whether that could happen, but would such a thing supersede

the abortion rights of the several states have now put into their constitutions? >> yes. if congress were to pass an abortion ban, it would apply nationwide. so it would apply to states like new york and california that have been abortion right supporters for a long time. it would apply to missouri and arizona and montana and the states that just enacted abortion rights in their constitutions. that's what a federal ban should do. so everyone needs to be on high alert about that. as well as on alert about this attempt which will be underhanded to y to cut off access to medication abortion and it's available now by telemedicine. a lifeline for women who can't get to to clinic nearby. >> thanks for being with us and

bringing us great clarity. we'll continue to have these conversations until this matter is resolved. the president and ceo of the center for reproductive rights. president biden will host president-elect trump at the white house on wednesday. come up, a book banning story that's begging to be told today in the moment of grief and fear over the future of our country. the story of the author, actor, and activist, next on velshi. vii and if i recommend they need to get their vision done this year or their dental they will be able to do that. medicare advantage helps me take care of my patients like i would want somebody to take care of my family, my mom, my dad, and me someday. oh... stuffed up again? so congested! you need sinex saline from vicks. just sinex,

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2024 has been the most electiony year in history. more than 1 billion people worldwide cast their ballots in national elections. and while every country has its own reasons, story lines, and contexts, there has been a pattern that's emerged. incumbents, those currently in

power, are losing. according to analysis from financial times, this is the first time in 120 years that in ten countries, incumbents were booted from office. political parties in charge during peak post pandemic inflation have been punished at the ballot box. let's start with japan. the country's liberal democratic party has controlled the japanese parliament for all but four years since 1955. but in october, the party lost its majority as inflation rates rose. the yen hit a 34-year low compared to the dollar as costs rose symbolized by a bowl of ramen. in south korea's deeply polarized political climate, the liberal party made the election a referendum on the conservative president whose approval rating has been under water his entire

time in office. the president was hoping the elections would give him a majority after working with a divided government for the first half of his term. instead, the south korean people strengthened the hold adding 19 seats. in september, voters in austria gave the freedom party founded by nazis, its first ever electoral win following a campaign focused on immigration concerns and price hikes. russia's war with ukraine has further strained. the fbo earned the most votes in the election but did not earn a majority and they were unable to form a coalition government. just last week in the african nation of botswana, voters booted the botswana democratic party after six decades of government control. high unemployment and a weakened economy set the party up for failure. as was the case in south africa where the african national

congress, the party of mandela, which has controlled the country since the end of apartheid in 1994, lost its majority in june. they did still win a lurality of the vote, but had to form a coalition government for the first time in history to stay in power. what's noteworthy is the drop in support from 2019 when the anc received 57% of the vote. that's a drop of 17 points. in the united kingdom, the conservative party controlled government for 14 years before facing landslide losses in july. the bungling party and its dizzying parade of prime ministers failed to make good and brexit further hurt their economy. this could continue in canada where a right wing populous is mounting a campaign against

trudeau. canadians who are tired of rising prices seem to agree with him. the united states fare better but its incumbent party in the white house faired no better for it. despite inflation falling in all of these nations since its peak in late 2022, voters roundly rejected the parties in charge during those spikes. so if tuesday's results shocked you. america is just like everyone else. ked you. america is just like everyone else one beats ten. prilosec otc. one pill. 24 hours. zero heartburn. have you compared your medicare plan recently? with ehealth, you can compare medicare plans side by side for free. so we invited people to give ehealth a try and discover how easy it can be to find your medicare match. this is pretty amazing. i can go on a vacation with this money. i have quite a few prescriptions. that's why people call us. we're going to compare plans, and i'm gonna try to get you as much bang for your buck as possible.

that's great. this one here covers all your prescriptions, your doctors as well. oh, wonderful. i have a hard time with this. that's okay, that's what i'm here for. based on our conversation today, i would highly recommend this plan. you're so helpful. you know, you don't know. i'm excited for you, sir. again, my name is sham. and if you have any other questions, give me a ring. thank you very much. oh, my god, that was super easy. uhhh! see how your medicare plan stacks up with the big changes for 2025. just call this number or get started at ehealth.com. compare plans that cover your doctor's prescriptions, pharmacy and budget, and compare plans from the nation's top insurance companies. they pay us to help you. how much do you think you'll be able to save using ehealth? at least $300 a month. would you say you found your medicare match? yes i did. what sham did she explain to me exactly what i needed to know? well, i have a surprise for you. sham, come on out. oh my goodness. it's a pleasure to meet you today, sir. what does it feel like to be face to face?

you helped me out quite a bit. call to meet your advisor. they're paid the same. no matter which medicare advantage plan you choose. ask them about ehealth, live advice or get started on your own at ehealth.com. either way, it's always a free service. see if you could get more for less with ehealth, like these folks did. the savings are unbelievable. i could see the costs side by side. ehealth is wonderful. $1,200 savings in my pocket. i was really pleasantly surprised with that. (♪♪) (♪♪) ehealth. your medicare matchmaker. our right to reproductive health care is being stolen from us. i can't believe this is the world we live in,

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we're back to this thing that makes us feel a little more normal. talking about banned books, believe it or not. one of the dearest parts of the show to us and there are some books that become part of a larger story. a beginning, middle and end tht exists in the world. there aren't awards requirements or writing style requisites. there's just one qualifier. they inspire change. today's velshi banned book club feature, the best at it, is one such book. members of the club will remember him and and his story from a previous meeting but today, it's important to revisit because the story of this author and book resonates in a different and crucial way today. let's start with the book

itself. the best at it published in 2019 tells the story of a seventh grader named raul. one of the only gay boys in his middle school. when his grandfather gives him advice to find what you're really good at and become the best at it, the preteen embarks on a journey of self-discovery and love. the best at it is endearing, poignant, and age appropriate and it's inspired by pancholi's own real childhood. so this past spring, pancholi was invited to mountain view middle school in pennsylvania to speak to students and his book and about bull ling and inclusion. it's about two hours west of philadelphia. about a month before he was set to speak at the school, he learned through social media that the local school board had voted unanimously to cancel his

event and disinvite him. why? concerns over pancholi's quote, lifestyle, end quote, which is a thinly veiled about sexual orientation. faculty condemned the board's decision in a letter. one local parent started a petition to reinstate the talk. it got nearly 10,000 signatures. he received an outpouring of love and support and he rejoined us on the velshi banned book club. we do a lot of young adult stuff. literature, shakespeare. but kids books that are getting banned, you must have written some terrible stuff in that book to get it banned, right? >> oh, yeah, it's really horrible. it's about finding yourself in middle school. being comfortable with yourself as a human being. i actually love that someone at the school board actually referenced there's empathy in the book because that's what it's about. >> but as if it were a bad thing.

>> right. i'm so glad that you know, and so much gratitude to the people on the ground in this community to the mother, trisha comstock, if i can give you a shutout, has done so much to advocate for all the young people there, who had the foresight to record this board meeting who said this is going in the wrong direction and i want to record it. >> all right. so they recorded it, got out. there was a petition. malik came on the show, talked about it and two weeks after the initial vote, the school board had another meeting. students, parents and community members packed the auditorium and for more than five years, bravely demanded that he come speak to the students. the school board voted 5-4 to reinstate his talk and a few weeks later, the event was held. this is a story about the power of community and engaging about those with whom you disagree can make a huge difference. right after the break, i'll be joined by an important friend of the velshi banned book club.

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thank you for being with us. >> yeah. >> let's just start with the obvious. the book banning problem is not close to over. it's probably going to get worse before it gets better and tuesday's election result did not help that cause. >> yeah. i think it's, you know, it's a tough time because i think the attack on books is probably going to get more challenging. i think the school boards might feel more empowered to pull books off shelves that parents, communities who don't want books being shown to their kids might feel more emboldened to make those cases. i think that teachers and librarians have already had such a tough time and now i think they might face even further threats and possible legislature just for handing a book to a kid. so i think there's, it's a challenging, challenging time for sure. >> which is why when thinking about this in the context of the election, our first thought was let's talk to maulik because something, we showed that conversation you and i last had. after that, you actually did that event. the school board voted again.

they permitted you to come back. i want you to tell me what that looked like because that, in theory, was you walking into a hostile environment, but it wasn't. >> it was kind of incredible. we prepared, myself and like my book agent and just sort of like the support of other authors in the community for what this might look like. we made sure press had to stay away so it wasn't this maelstrom of craziness on campus. it wasn't like that. it was like many other school visits. it was a little larger than most. i had 550 kids in each assembly, three different assemblies, so i got tired of talking. but there were a handful of students who needed to know they were seen and cared for and that they could see themselves in books like the ones i had written. and there were a handful i think of faculty who felt very empowered by knowing that like hey, our school made this happen and maybe i don't have to hide

so much and i can be who i am with my students. and then there were a lot of kids who at the end of my powerful, moving presentation, i have a question. what's your favorite color. >> a normal assortment of the kids who would attend something. but every author i speak to who writes a book about personal experience or being seen tells me it matters that one person was seen and that one person heard that story. you had 10,000 people sign a petition to have you come back. there were probably not 10,000 people in that county who had read the book. >> that's right. i think a lot of people from various districts came together. i think that's something that feels so important to me at this moment is power of community. the power of people standing up for our most vulnerable communities. i think while that school visit felt like a pretty normal visit all in all, there was also a rallying of tendents who

said we're going to take care of our students. there was a school board meeting that was forced to happen after the initial cancellation where 1,000 people showed up and i think that you know, what was most moving to me because i watched that presentation, was teenagers getting up and stepping up to the mike and making their voices heard. and lgbtq teenagers and trans teenagers and we know trans people have been demonized to such a great extent in the election cycle. and we have real cause to be worried about their physical and mental well-being right now. so the feel the support they got in that moment and me coming to the school. i hope that's a marker for what we can do in this current moment. >> and because it's not a small matter. i mean, one might say hey, you can do this because you can do it in your community and have that sort of power and experience demonstrates that, but this is about book banning. this is a major, major issue in the pursuit and preservation of

democracy. this is not getting your trashed picked up two times a week. this is actually about saving democracy. >> it's about intellectual freedom, getting to know our histories, not erasing full identities. these books are books, but they're my personal experience so when someone says hey, we don't want this story in our school. i was in school. i was a middle schooler. did i not deserve to exist in that school? that's what we have to keep fighting the good fight for, is the right to exist. >> do you think, the board changed its vote. was that because of political pressure or do you think any minds were changed? >> i don't know. i'm not in touch with that school board. i imagine it was a mix of a will the of things. talk about the power of journalism and you bringing the story to light. i think this small community didn't realize how much international attention it was going to get. but i would like to believe that after a six-hour second --

>> that someone actually changed. >> that someone might have changed their minds. >> and all you and i ask, just going to get to the back of this book. there are, i don't know how many pages. it's not long. it's got 37 chapters. >> big type font. easy to read. >> just read the book. this would solve a lot of our problems if people would just read the book. great to see you. you are probably one of our most regular members of the club for unusual reasons but always happy to have you. >> thank you for having me. >> maulik pancholy is author of two books. my next week on the club, we're going to speak with one of the most prolific and celebrated authors of our time. her best seller has been widely banned across the country, but she's not just fighting for her book. don't miss my conversation. thank you for watching. catch me back here tomorrow morning. watching catch me back here tomorrow morning.