changed. >> that someone might have changed their minds. >> and all you and i ask, just going to get to the back of this book. there are, i don't know how many pages. it's not long. it's got 37 chapters. >> big type font. easy to read. >> just read the book. this would solve a lot of our problems if people would just read the book. great to see you. you are probably one of our most regular members of the club for unusual reasons but always happy to have you. >> thank you for having me. >> maulik pancholy is author of two books. my next week on the club, we're going to speak with one of the most prolific and celebrated authors of our time. her best seller has been widely banned across the country, but she's not just fighting for her book. don't miss my conversation. thank you for watching. catch me back here tomorrow morning. watching catch me back here tomorrow morning.

i'm katie phang, live from seattle, washington. welcome to the katie phang show. we begin this hour with some breaking news out of the white house. president joe biden has announced he will host president-elect donald trump in the oval office this wednesday. after his win this week, trump is beginning to reveal how his second administration will be staffed. the president-elect named his campaign manager, susie wiles, as white house chief of staff. she is the first in a long list of roles that trump will need to fill in the coming weeks. in what is perhaps a preview of his foreign policy approach, we also learned that billionaire elon musk briefly joined in on a call between trump and ukraine's president zelenskyy on wednesday. as for the state of play in d.c., republicans did regain control of the senate, though we learned overnight but the

credit senator jacky rosen was able to hold onto hurt nevada senate seat. on the equally important health side, there is still a dozen races yet to be called, with republicans only needing six more seats in order to secure a majority. getting us started and joining me now is democratic congressman robert garcia. he serves on the oversight and homeland security committee and was one of the national co- chairs for the harris campaign. congressman, look, i know you fought the good fight. i saw you, i heard you stumping for harris walz . it has been a couple of days, what is some insight you can possibly share with our viewers right now about the outcome from tuesday night? >> good to be with you. first, i think it is important to say that we should all be very proud of vice president harris and her team. clearly they ran really strong race. at the same time, we have to be honest with each other and recognize that we lost. we lost the presidency.

unfortunately we are able to hang onto some of these key senate states in the swing states, and obviously the house is still being decided. it will continue to be over the course of the next few days. but there is a lot of inflection to do, a lot of listening to do, that we got to really think about what our message is around the economy, because at the end of the day, while some of the data obviously shows an improved economy, a lot of folks were not feeling that directly to them. i think that is really important. and the one thing that i think is a really critical fear, and something that i know a lot of folks are talking about, it is not just the policy, and it is not just what we are promoting other as democrats or as a party. it is where we are communicating. and i think that the right, particularly the far right, they have mastered communicating all of these new spaces, these mass media spaces

where they are reaching people in places we are not. so we have to be not just in traditional media, not just in podcasts, but we now have to think about how we communicate. because there is an enormous amount of misinformation, disinformation, and in some cases just complete fabrication and lies that are being pumped out to communities, in latino communities and other community's out there, that we have no way of taking on. and a telling actually facts and the truth. so people are getting their information out in such different ways, that has to be also at the top of our agenda as we think about our elections in the future and how we get our message out. >> you know, congressman, i'm glad you brought up the latino community. because along several voting groups, one of the most surprising jumps in terms of support for donald trump came from latino men. were democrats just not listening to them along the way? were they failing to maybe even ask the right questions to begin with?

i mean, i am not a huge fan of exit polls, but i have been listening to the interviews that have been going on, and it seems to me that there is more of an emphasis on the economy than on maybe the true policy issues that we saw from harris. >> so, i think a couple of things. first, i think we should be clear, donald trump included almost every group. latino men, young people, suburban women. he increases margins on every group. as it relates to latino men, i go back, i was with, in the vantage estimate in nevada a month or so ago, 30 or 40 latino men that were undecided and having a conversation about the future. and the two things that struck me, one was that they were not seeing improvements to the economy in the way we saw in the data. they really felt that prices were really hurting them and their families. and we heard that over and over

again. and the second thing rings me back to this question about where folks are getting their information. the folks that i was talking to, they were not getting their information from reading the new york times or the washington post, or even by watching cable news. they are getting their information from youtube, from other communication channels, from these small digital platforms, so we have got to be also in all of those spaces, and recognizing communities are now consuming information in different ways. so we have to be part of the reflection that we do as a party, and clearly the economy was top of mind for voters, and that includes latino men. >> i just wanted to follow up quickly on the point you just made. i find it hard to believe that the democrats were unaware that these communities, these groups of voters were getting their information from sources like that. i mean, is this a little bit of some too little too late analysis coming from the democrats we came to this idea of kind of getting that message across? because substantively, it was a

chasm between what kamala harris was going to be able to a compass, what she has done and will be able to do for these communities, and what donald trump cannot do and promises to do, which is even worse, basically nasty protection of these communities. >> look, first, democrats in the campaign invested heavily in reaching communities through a variety of medias, i think that is also true. but i think the level to which the right has done this and has kind of mastered reaching folks in different spaces, i think it is something that we have to do a better job at, and certainly we have a lot of work to do. i think it is really, really critical. at the same time, i think we have to go back understanding that we have a message, we are the party of working people. we got to double down on that. we are the party that has been here, actually helping. so we've got to get that message out in a much stronger way, in as many ways as possible. and i think it is also important that we have to

reflect, we have to do research, we have to talk to folks. and most importantly, to listen. i think it is also a little early to understand everything that went wrong, but we have to acknowledge that we lost, and do better work ahead to listen to the voters out there. >> california congressman robert garcia, always good to see you, and i want to thank you for all the hard work you did, as well. thanks for being here. for more, joining me now is olivia troye, former homeland security adviser to vice president mike pence. thanks to you for the hard work you put out there on the campaign trail. we saw you stumping with vice president harris. how are you feeling? i've had difficulty expressing it myself, but i wanted to know how you are feeling after what i think is a disastrous outcome. >> obviously i am disappointed and i am worried for what is to come for our country. i think everything that i said during the campaign remains true, about my concerns about what it means for us domestically as a country, and our homeland security and our national security apparatus.

i think i do still believe that she would've made an amazing president for all of us, and i still stand by her. i think she did a great job of growing a coalition of unity, and i hope that that coalition will remain going forward, because we are certainly going to need it as we navigate these uncharted waters that we are about to go into. >> olivia, the new republic had an interesting article. it looked back at the election, and there was a lot of a benefit of hindsight here, but it said in part that instead of running on bold progressive popular policies that helped win the white house in 2020, the democratic party abandoned its space to court and imaginary liz cheney super fan demographic. i have to ask you this specifically. do you think the democrats should have focused more on their quote base, instead of courting the imaginary liz cheney super fan? we just heard from congressman garcia, i have been reading reports that the far right does such an effective job of being able to

read voters, but i would think that if you spoke to a trump convert, someone who does not support him, that actually would resonate and you are having a conversation and trying to court a voter to come and vote for kamala harris. >> look, i was out in battleground states, i was talking to republicans and independent voters, and centrists like myself. they're out there and they are watching this closely. and i hope that we don't end up continuing to isolate them. because they don't identify with the populace maga movement. they don't identify with the extremes of this. and they are in the center. i think going forward politically, people are taking a step back about where do i truly fit in? i think he was absolutely right when it comes to reaching people. i think the right wing chain has always been somewhat more effective. because they all rode together. and i think we have to figure out how we counter that.

>> you have witnessed and experienced firsthand what donald trump is capable of during his first term in the white house. now he is coming back, and as i have been and others have been wanting for a long time, no guard rails. and even more loyalists that will be installed. what is your first and immediate concern about what is going to happen once he is sworn in in january? >> you know, i think i worry about the people serving in our federal government, and i strongly worry about what is to come for our national security. i am concerned for the intelligence community and the people who serve in it. i was certainly there the first time around, right at the onset of the first trump administration. and i saw the attempts to web denies and politicize intelligence for personal gain by donald trump, and for his own personal agenda. so those are the things i have been thinking about lately, what does this look like? whether it looks like nationally, what is to come for nato, whether it is reneging on our article five, when they

attack one member of nato they attack all this. i don't think donald trump use it that way. these are the things i am processing right now, thinking about how will the intelligence community respond to this? i think there are a lot of americans, yes, they are domestically focused. yes, the economy. yes, all these issues they voted on, they don't truly understand the ramifications of what is to come, for our own personal security here on the homeland. >> olivia, i did want to lead with this question, which is there've been direct threats made by trump and others of his supporters about retribution to be taken against those that were brave enough over the years to speak out and to be a voice of reason, and to explain why a trump presidency the second time around would be even worse than the first. do you have a concern for your own safety and or your own future in our country? >> well, i would be lying if i said i didn't.

that is certainly something that my family and i are thinking about, but i will say this. i am prepared to face the consequence is, simply for telling the truth. and if that brings with it whatever it may, i will continue to be a person out there, standing up for our country, and for the democratic values that i believe in. i hope that i can be an example for others. these are going to be rough times, but it does not mean we back down from it. i think it is now that we actually have to band together and really stay strong about these authoritarian types of extremist movements we are up against. >> olivia, one thing you always did do is you speak truth to power. i appreciate you for doing that. olivia troye, thank you for being here, i am really grateful. >> thank you, katie. coming up after the break, building bridges. what democrats can do to recover and recapture the voters lost in one of the lowest turnout elections in recent history. and what drove many voters, especially men, to abandon the party for trump? i can probably answer that. that is coming up next.

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after a grueling campaign, donald trump is officially the president-elect. leaving more than 70 something million voters now asking how in the hell did this happen? joining me now is paola ramos, author of the defectors, the rise of the latino far right and what it means for america. and to alfred, senior author at

thegrio. i want to start with you, the number of people who turned out in this election is overall lower than 2020. for both of the candidates, trump is actually still tracking lower than his 2020 vote counts, as is kamala harris. nbc had exit polls that identified what nbc has defined as or is calling an ominous development for democrats. we saw just 31% of voters that identified as democrats turning out to vote, down from 37% four years ago. i mean, natasha, is it the product that is being sold that is a problem? or is it the way that it is being sold to the american people that is the problem here? >> i think one of the main things that we can look to in this moment is the power of the internet. and the power of media consumption. the way that it has changed. frankly there were a lot of messages that were directed through legacy media, that sometimes did not reach people. this is a different time that

we are living in, and so you have people who have maybe cut the cord, who don't open the new york times on a sunday, but they do get their news from a what's up group chat or are on social media. and on the right, republicans have intentionally and very carefully created disinformation campaigns, and they have filled that gap, so to speak, to reach people. so so often there were critiques of democrats. there were critiques of the biden harris administration that did not have exact answers on the left. there were not direct responses that can really match the disinformation and the effort to sway how people were thinking about this election. so, when people had to choose between the couch or coming out, there were some folks who were not compelled to. they did not know actually how to make a decision between the two candidates, and the question of democracy being enough, doing the right thing being enough are some of those voters, it just was not enough to get them

out. >> my friend, you and i have spent a long time leading up to this election talking about those disinformation campaigns, especially on spanish-language media platforms. you have been pounding the pavement, speaking to the latino voters, talking to them about these issues. you've written a book about it, you've done specials about it. now, when we look at all of these returns and we are seeing the number of latinos and latinas that voted for donald trump, despite his racist rhetoric, it kind of makes me want to pull my hair out a little bit because not only is it voting against your best self-interest here, but explain how it is that this information was available and it could have been accessed, and yet we are sitting here having this conversation now, when it has been something we are focusing on for a long time. i saw it happening in real time in miami-dade county. >> i know you did.

i think it is hard, because it is a very hard and uncomfortable truth to face what is happening. to face the reality that over 45% of latinos voted for this person, a person that was actively promising mass deportation, actively promising to separate families, and talking in such vile ways. i think what is a very important right now is not to just dismiss these games as simply a result of economic anxiety. as simply a problem with the democrats. i think we have to dig a little deeper and have those uncomfortable conversations. this goes beyond the maga movement in politics, in my opinion. this is really about trump tapping into these very real racial and ethnic anxieties and grievances, that as latinos we carry, and through this movement, that, in and of itself, sort of was able to expose that we, too, can come anti-semitic sentiments, we can carry anti-blackness, and carry a form of traditionalism that really resonated with trump's culture war message. and particularly i have to say, i saw it time and time again,

particularly the anti-trans message. that message coupled with the anti-emigrant message, but the anti-trans message was able to invoke a very specific moral panic among some latinos, that felt so deeply threatened by the way that these patriarchal norms were suddenly evaporating in the united states. and that, i have to say, was very powerful. >> i appreciate your honesty on that, because natosha, conversely, we talked about this, you and i, on my show. running up to election day, the democratic party kind of in a tailspin, worried about losing black male votes. but in the end, the black men, and especially the black women voted for kamala harris by the largest margin of any population . i mean, it is time, isn't it? for people to recognize the disproportionate burden that has been carried by especially black women when it has come to having to save this country from itself. >> the black community showed

up, consistently, in many ways thinking about the interests of the country at large, above anything else. and what i saw this week with our thegrio commenters was just the sense of exhaustion. this sense of if we care and you don't, what more can we do? what more work can we do? with black men in particular, i actually think a lot of this was wishful thinking. i think it was republican messaging strategies to make people jump on the story and think that lachman were going to leave the democratic party in droves to create a sort of permission structure for black men to think about that. but i think that this is part of a larger effort number right? it is not just the 2024 election. there has always been this narrative that you should leave the quote unquote democratic plantation. so it is not a brand-new recruiting effort, it is just a matter of how people are being reached. now, there were some black voters who did see that

attraction to donald trump, and the divide and conquer strategy, this idea that you are somehow different from other people, you deserve certain things, he played into all of those anxieties. and the one thing i will say, as somebody who is both black, african-american specifically, and latino, is that when we have the latino conversations, we have to talk about the complexity and diversity of the latino community. the numbers of puerto ricans who voted for kamala harris versus the number of cubans who voted for donald trump. these are two different communities, different histories, and so, as paola said, race is part of the conversation. the openness to white supremacy, this idea that it is not disqualifying, all of that is ached into the caste systems that exist, and some of these home countries. so this is our time as media to make a nuanced, or sort of take

a nuanced approach to the way that we cover latinos, to stop lumping them together, to stop assuming that because someone is latino that they are not black or they are not white. tell these complex stories, and then we will not be as surprised when these results come out. >> paola, amen. and natosha, you are right. but the other important thing is i have a fear. my fear is that we now retreated to silos where we kind of feel like we can't have the coalitions that helped lift all of us, and it is not because i don't recognize that hard work is been done disproportionately by certain communities. but my concern is that without recognizing and being honest and having these conversations, that we now will just sit in our corners and say you know what? i'm going to lick my wounds and you have to pick up the labor now because i am tired. >> i don't think democrats can afford that, and i hope that they will understand from these results that they have to dig into these conversations, they have to understand, to everyone's points here, how race is at the core of all of

this. my hope is that something similar would happen to what happened when we saw, i'm sorry to use this word, but under, i'm sorry to use this word, but under operation operation they understood that those deportations were also affecting them and their communities, their mixed status families. so from this form of darkness, the type of darkness that we will about the sea, we will have to confront whether or not we feel compassionate enough and driven enough to come together, and we are about to see the response to that. >> i like to say we all have the better angels, and i've got two of them i am looking at right here. natosha alford, paola ramose, i am so hateful. and this is the beginning of many conversations that we are going to have of how we fix this and move forward. a quick programming note, you can catch paola here on msnbc later today at 4:00, she will be hosting a special hour of

msnbc reports. but first, legal limbo. what is next for trump's legal troubles? now that he is on a one-way ticket back to the white house, can that woman you see on the screen right there, fani willis, can she keep him in legal check ? stay right here. right... for a better clean with less... it's got to be tide. (tony hawk) i still love to surf, snowboard, for a better clean and of course, skate, so i take qunol magnesium to support my muscle and bone health. qunol's high-absorption magnesium glycinate helps me get the full benefits of magnesium. qunol. the brand i trust.

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with the majority of americans handing donald trump the keys to the white house, they also gave him a get out of jail free card. let's be clear, trump was always running to stay out of prison. yesterday judge tanya chutkan granting jack smith's request to vacate deadlines and trump's federal election interference case in d.c., likely the first step in the process of ending the prosecution there. that motion comes after nbc news reported that this week the doj would be moving to wine down the two federal criminal cases against the president- elect. meanwhile, in new york, november 26 sentencing date remains on the calendar, with yet another unprecedented situation to be handled.

by justice quan merchan. joining me now is the cohost of the hashtag sisters-in-law podcast, joyce, it has been one hell of a week. one of the major things that comes out of a trump win, unfortunately, is the demise, prematurely, of criminal cases, specifically federal prosecutions at this point, of donald trump. should we expect something from jack smith that could expose the extent of his criminality, even if these cases get dropped by the doj? >> right, so i'm going to say something, katie, that will make me unpopular. i'm going to say it anyhow. i think we are at a point where we need to be very careful about throwing democratic norms out the window, because we are going to need to hang onto them for the next four years to get through the next trump administration. and the reason that i say that

is that prosecutors, their job is not to just throw out the evidence in a case for the public to look at when a defendant does not have the opportunity to respond. so, jack smith's goal here won't be what we might call dirtying up a defendant who has gotten away from him. that does not mean that there are not legitimate considerations for smith to make, though. he is a special counsel. special counsel's to write reports at the end of their investigations or cases, clarifying the work that they have done and explaining it. that is an opportunity to lay out some of their evidence, and we may well and likely should see smith do that here. but in a very measured, reasonable way that is consistent with the rule of law , because we need that rule of law to stay in place even though it is badly battered and damaged at this point. >> joyce, part of the rule of law also includes the sentencing component of a defendant who has been tried by a jury of his peers, and found guilty. in this case, a 34 felonies in the state of new york. the 26th is right around the

corner for donald trump. do you expect to see the sentencing move forward by judge merchan ? >> there is no reason that sentencing can't move forward. there is no reason the judge cannot impose a sentence, probably a custodial portion of trump sentenced to prison could not be executed. there would be a supremacy clause issued. i think the judge can go ahead and sentence. the wildcard here is whether trump's lawyers might not go into court, try to take a preemptive strike, get an appellate court sang the new york state system to rule in their favor. so we will wait and watch for that this week. >> joyce, one of the many hats you wear is also to share your legal brilliance with the brennan center. i have been getting a lot of calls on social media from viewers and from followers that are questioning the integrity of this election. they want to know why certain things are not being done, like a recount, for example, in

certain states. i always defer to people who are smarter and more capable than me. i know this may be putting you johnny on the spot, but i do want to ask you, joyce, what you think about the kind of clamoring for the recounts. i mean, if nothing was wrong, then the recount would just solidify that nothing was wrong. but if something was wrong, what a recount be able to expose that? and is there some type of standard that needs to be met to be able to do that? >> look, katie, this election was fair and freely help. and i will, like you, deferred to greater expertise than my own in this area. mark elias, the campaign law guru who is overlooking everything for the harris team, made a decision that there was no reason to challenge election results, no reason to ask for recounts, which are authorized under state law in certain circumstances when counts are close. this was not an election, and i, too, have heard the rumors and seen stuff circulating. i think that is an echo of the trump era, where it became

popular to question the integrity of our elections. that really is something that we need to not do here. the election happened, trump won fair and square, now the election question is what are we going to do next? >> so, for example, the fulton county case, it is a stay case, not a criminal case. can the portion of that criminal case move forward with the non-trump defendants, and then is it stayed against donald trump, considering the fact you cannot criminally prosecute a sitting president? >> right, so that case is still on hold, and is likely to remain on hold until well into the new year, because there is a challenge over whether or not fani willis can continue with that case. if the panel that is considering that ultimately determines that willis cannot stay on the case, a new georgia prosecutor will be assigned to the case. and that will likely be a deathknell for it. that happened with one defendant who was pulled out

from the herd early on, his case was reassigned to another prosecutor and went nowhere. so there is that possible path. the case could go back to willis. she could move forward, and at that point president trump's lawyers would bring another of charges, asking that the case be dismissed or at least be put on hold while he is in office. look, georgia's courts did work in the elections, standing up for election process. this is sort of a different matter, and whether they would permit a case to go forward against a sitting president i think is pretty unlikely. >> joyce vance, i will say it again, the man ran to stay out of prison. he did not run for the american people. thanks for being here, i appreciate it. coming up next, a bad penny. the consequences of president- elect donald trump's second term may echo some of the darkest parts of america's history, they can also provide a helpful blueprint on how we could move forward towards

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president-elect donald trump has been impeached twice, indicted four times. he has been found liable for civil ron, defamation, and sexual abuse. as a fellow he cannot possess a firearm, cannot serve on a jury, and in some cases he cannot hold a public office, with the exception of apparently president of the united states. and yet, more than 74 million americans voted for him to return to the hallowed oval office. joining me now is author and nbc news presidential historian michael bash lost. michael, we have had so many conversations, you and i. i will say, this is a palpable loss for so many americans. i am hearing from folks, how scared they are, how angry they are. i feel the same way.

>> well, a lot of people feel that way. and i think we got a big test of our system right now, which is i wish i could tell you that this is a case in which donald trump will be checked by democrats in the house and senate, or by the supreme court, or by other important forces in the american society. those things are really in doubt. the supreme court, you have discussed so eloquently on this show, has given him president unity. so, fear of criminal prosecution is not going to be something that is there, and that is unlike every single other president who was served before donald trump. as far as congress is concerned, the senate is going to be very strong for the republicans, stronger than many people expected. plus, many people expected the democrats to have at least a limited control of the house. at best that is in jeopardy as we speak. so, what are the forces that

can provide some constraint? the biggest one is the american people. harry truman once said the highest, most powerful job in america is not president, but citizen. think of the number of times in american history that people peacefully protesting, marching, speaking out were able to bring about change. >> michael, historically we have seen how badly things result for autocrats, dictators . we have seen the suffering that comes along the way. the people that are the direct victims of it, the collateral damage thomas sometimes, of those types of governing bodies. i mean, can you frame it a little bit for us, michael? maybe with some optimism or some hope that there is something to be learned. you just touch upon it briefly for a second there about the good trouble that we could get into. the way that our voices can be

heard. because a lot of people feel disenfranchised. 70 something million voters said no to him and yet they are now being told you still have a voice. >> but that still leaves a group, what percentage voted for democracy on tuesday? and said that they did not want a dictator on day one, or the kind of authoritarianism that donald trump has talked about. are those people going to be completely ignored? i don't think history suggests that they are. and the other thing is, let's go back to 1776. what was the whole point of this revolution in the first place? it was to revolt against a petty authoritarian tyrant, the king of england, and try to devise a system that allowed us to govern ourselves. this is what we have done. and you are asking me are there examples in american history that we can look to, what happens when you have a president who is a tyrant. there are almost none. because through all of american history, americans have felt

that it was so important that a president be restrained. not use every single lever of power available. not use the defense department or the justice department to go after his political enemies. that is a tradition that is almost 2 1/2 centuries strong. i can't believe that it will suddenly disappear even though half the electorate voted for that tradition on tuesday. >> how important is it, michael, especially based upon your incredible ability to kind of look back and to kind of bring the perspective to the present time? how important is it for people to realize that there is still strength in a collective voice of discontent? a collective voice of saying we are not going to live under the yoke of this, and to force, even on a local and a state level, politicians and the people that are supposed to represent them, to make them be

held accountable for doing things that are not going to be a reflection of what the voters want. >> well, perfect example would be how is donald trump held back when he tried to shatter obama care? two years into his presidency. that was from people marching and going to town meetings, and things that were written by journalists. that is the way our system works. but, as much as i say it is going to be harder because of the supreme court and the congress and the atmosphere right now, you have to be an optimist when you are looking at american history. because what has ruled has been democracy and our opposition to tyrants. i cannot imagine that, especially in the wake of an election on tuesday, that is just going to disappear. >> presidential historian, and someone i trust and consider to be a friend, michael beschloss . thank you for taking the time today. thank you. coming up, a silver lining. yes, some good news.

what election days successful ballot measures on abortion mean for the future of women's reproductive health, and what a possible trump abortion ban would really end up looking like. don't go anywhere. keytruda is known to treat cancer. fda-approved for 17 types of cancer, including certain early-stage and advanced cancers. one of those cancers is early-stage non—small cell lung cancer. keytruda may be used with certain chemotherapies before surgery when you have early-stage lung cancer, which can be removed by surgery, and then continued alone after surgery to help prevent your lung cancer from coming back. keytruda can cause your immune system to attack healthy parts of your body during or after treatment. this may be severe and lead to death. see your doctor right away if you have cough, shortness of breath, chest pain, diarrhea, severe stomach pain, severe nausea or vomiting, headache, light sensitivity, eye problems, irregular heartbeat, extreme tiredness, constipation, dizziness or fainting, changes in appetite, thirst, or urine, confusion, memory problems, persistent or severe muscle pain or weakness,

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if you are searching for a silver lining from tuesday's results, there was some positive news when it comes to women's reproductive rights. of the 10 states that had abortion on the ballot, those

measures passed in the seven of those states. and although amendment four did not pass in my home state of florida, the results do show a majority of voters did support it. nbc's exit polling saw increases from 2020 with voters saying that they think abortion should be legal. joining me now is the president of reproductive freedom for all. many, i had to end with the good news, which is amazing in my opinion. what is the message that you take away from the results of the seven ballot measures the past? >> we have been saying for a long time that abortion, when it is on the ballot, it wins. and that the majority of americans support abortion rights. so what tuesday's results showed us is confirmation of that fact, and it is important to note, like in 2022, and 2023, we had a significant number of independents and republicans cross over to support these initiatives. and some of these states, they were codifying protections into the constitution that legislatures have already passed, in other states they

were upending legislative decisions. in some states they were expanding and protecting access, who can provide abortion care, how long, et cetera. so, by and large, this was a wide range initiative pats. but the bottom line is that abortion is protected in those states, and we will see in the coming months efforts by legislators, attorneys general to take those ballot measures in the constitutions and go further through legislation, litigation, and repeals of existing bands and guidance. so, for folks who are listening at home, what does this mean? this means that we have other pathways to protect abortion care, and we have, i believe, a political mandate that includes holding accountability for republicans in office, showing them that their constituents support abortion care, and taking the steps to use that information and knowledge and voter participation to block a national abortion ban, block

additional federal restrictions on abortion, block state legislative efforts to curb abortion. so, we have a grassroots movement that is just getting started to protect care. >> yeah, and that is the important part, what you just said. because i am fully prepared for the hypocrisy, which is the trump vance administration, the claims of we are never going to the national abortion ban. i know that is coming down the pipeline. so, what are things that you, for example, at your organization and other advocates for reproductive freedom for all americans, what are you guys doing to prepare against what could be, again, the hypocrisy? leave it to the states, oh no, don't leave it to the states. we are just going to do a national abortion ban instead. >> yeah, you are asking the exact right question. these were the things we want about when we are campaigning for kamala harris. finally, i think we ran an excellent campaign. we have a challenge making the issues stick to donald trump, and part of that challenge was

his insistence that he would not pass a national ban. so, to your point, congressional republicans and donald trump has said they don't support a national ban, they don't support restrictions to ivf and contraception. so we are a grassroots political organization. what we are doing already is convening our members, putting out grassroots actions in states where we know we have lost fights in the senate. for example, we have to make it very clear and plain that citizens will not tolerate ban . but we also have to keep the around-the-clock organizing happening to make sure voters see what their legislators are doing. we cannot let anything happen in the dark of night. we cannot let anyone think we are taking our foot off the gas. that means you are going to see ads, you are going to see organizing, you are actually going to see it during the election, but it's not going to stop. it also means we need congress and the biden administration, and we are very hopeful to push through as many judicial confirmations as possible right now. that is an important path to

reproductive freedom at the federal level. and we've got to be working, and we already are, with democratic governors and a gees and blue states to protect access to care for citizens who need to cross state lines to get that care. >> you know, quickly, one important point is for people to understand, for example, in my state of florida i believe that amendment four was going to pass, but because before it even made it to the ballot, they changed the standard to a super majority so it had to be 60% or more to be able to have it passed. we were within inches, right? 57%, 58%. how important is it for people to realize that the democracy that happens in your backyard. the local stuff that happens on this local list state-level is just as important as things happen on the national level. >> it's really important. you said it. remember, for your listeners, in 2023 the ohio legislature tried to change the threshold for their ballot to 60%. citizens got it. they fought back. and the ballot measure in ohio past, but only had the past the

50% threshold. so, democracy and the fight for freedom, it is not every 2-4 years. it is a year-round process. we've got off year cycle races that we have to think about. we have fights for supreme courts. i also want to say on a positive note, i truly believe protecting abortion access help them get past the finish line. we are going to see ruben gallego pull this off, i think. the pennsylvania house won. we won significant supreme court races in the state of michigan on this issue. so, do not give up hope. i think the down ballot is where folks really connected the dots, and we have to do a bigger, better job of making the connection at the federal level in 2026. >> my gratitude, as always, to you for your hard work. thank you for being here. >> thank you.

>> thanks to all of you for joining us today. i will be back here on saturday at noon eastern. be sure to follow us on social media at using the handle at katie phang show. you can also catch clips of the show on youtube, and listen to every episode of the show as a podcast for free. there is a qr code on your screen to follow now, but don't go anywhere. msnbc reports with alex witt is coming up next.