the winds have died down. you can see the flagger behind me. that is the metric for how things are moving here. it is steady, giving the firefighters and upper hand here. we are looking about 170 acres in the redding mountains. no word on the full containment yet, but officials tell me they expect this fire to continue for about four or five days. earlier this morning when this look really dramatic, when the fire was really going, they issued some evacuations here in a community of about 100 homes. they have since lifted those orders, but reminding residents this could all change depending on the weather. we caught up with one of those residents. just her reaction to this hellish landscape is something to listen to. take a listen. >> three doors down is our house, and right here is the fire. what you think, 100 feet? way too close for comfort. last night was really bad. you could see the whole mountain lit up. and i could not get home fast enough to my kids.

>> reporter: too close for comfort. luckily we have seen a good number of personnel out here, we have also seen helicopters dumping water over the smacking. but this is not the only area dealing with these fires. we know in new york, prospect park, that would really dramatic. those firefighters spending hours putting that out. as one official described it, the lungs now filled with smoke as many of us woke up to breathing all of that in. and out west, california, of course, we are used to seeing these types of images. firefighters fortunately catching a break, the santa ana winds dying down for a bit, but they know that can also change at any moment. we have seen some of the dramatic images there, hope the business is completely gone. officials hoping that is not the case here in pennsylvania at this redding fire. the clockwork, excuse me, they will work around the clock here to try to combat this fire. officials tell me right now they feel they have the upper hand and they hope it stays that way with some rain in the forecast for tomorrow. >> that would be good. let me tell you, the mountain fire in camarillo in southern california is brittle and devastating. thank you for the update on

both coasts. appreciate that. meantime, how the new donald trump administration could upend the lives of legal immigrants with just the stroke of a pen. very good day to all of you from an msnbc world headquarters in new york. welcome to alex witt reports. we begin with 72 days until inauguration day, and a new meeting is set between president biden and president- elect donald trump in the oval office wednesday morning. we are going to have more on that in a minute for you. and some new reflections today on the democrats's loss from speaker nancy pelosi, in a wide- ranging interview with the new york times. >> because the president endorsed kamala harris immediately, that really made it almost impossible to have a primary at that time. if it had been much earlier, it would've been different. but that's not, we are not here to agonize. we're here, again, to organize on how we go forward. we are going to have fresh, new talent. perhaps kamala among them, that

is up to her. to go forward for the next election. >> in the battle for control of the house, a number of seats remain on called, several of them in california. democrats are still hoping to maintain control of the chamber, while at the same time analyzing the electoral aftermath. >> the right and particularly the far right have mastered communicating in all of these new spaces. these niche, mass media spaces where they are reaching people in places that we are not. so we have to be not just in traditional media, not just in podcasts, but we now to think about how we communicate. because there is an enormous amount of misinformation, disinformation, and in some cases, just complete fabrication and lies that are being pumped out to communities , in latino communities and other community's out there, that we have no way of taking on.

>> two senate races remain uncalled in this hour, both in battlegrounds. more details on that in a moment. and some new hints today of the trump and ministrations first order of business. >> america has clearly said they expect a clear border. we want immigration, but we wanted to be legal, orderly, and safe. after the president secures the border, which i am sure he will probably, it is up to the senate and the house of representatives to then pass legislation to secure that in statute so it cannot simply be open to begin. >> we have a number of reporters and analyst ready to go over all these developing story lines with us. will go first to nbc's drake trailer near palm beach. how is donald trump spending his first weekend as president- elect? >> alex, it is pretty rare that we don't see or hear from now president-elect donald trump in days. the last time we saw him was last tuesday, election night, whenever he gave his victory speech after winning the nomination, winning the presidency. after the past few days, we have really seen donald trump

focused on two key things. one has been meeting with world leaders from across the globe, talking about his upcoming administration and how he would interact with them. secondly, we have seen donald trump focus on appointing and selecting who his cabinet members will be, who his administration is going to be, in this upcoming second term that he is going to serve. and there has really been a notable shift in focus on who he is going to pick this time around. his first term we saw a lot of turnover in his and ministration. at 20 different individuals ultimately switched out from their initial appointments. this time around, trump is focused on loyalists. him and his transition team say they want people but will stay in his corner throughout the course of his administration. one of those individuals is his former acting secretary of homeland security, chad wolf, who is being considered can with sources that nbc is poking with for an upcoming administration as well. he was asked about this in an interview just moments ago. take a listen to that.

>> look, it is always a pleasure and an honor to be asked to serve, particularly by president trump. i served him for four years. he is an informer, he is a disruptor. if asked, i would certainly be willing to serve again. i think it would be the honor of a lifetime. >> so far there is really only one actual position that donald trump has publicly selected to serve in his upcoming administration, and it is an important one. the chief of staff. donald trump a couple days ago selected susie wiles to be his chief of staff in this upcoming and ministration. you've probably heard the name before. she was the co-campaign manager route the course of this campaign, and i have been talking with sources that say she was the unanimous favorite inside the administration and inside the campaign, as well. she brought a new level of discipline to the campaign that my sources tell me she hopes he brings to this upcoming administration, as well. >> appreciate that.

another welcome to you. what are we learning about trump's upcoming meeting with president biden? >> we knew from the white house that this meeting was going to happen, that president biden had extended this invitation to former president trump to come to the white house. there was a question about when exactly that meeting what happened, knowing that the president is going to be leaving on thursday for south america for the aipac and g20 summit that will be happening there. now we have learned that this meeting will take place on wednesday at 11:00 a.m., according to a statement from the white house press secretary. this is an opportunity for the american people to see this transition in practice. we know that the government bureaucracies will be able to make sure the transition happens at that level, but this really is the opportunity for the american people to see the imagery of one president standing next to an incoming president and preparing to pass the baton to that person who is coming into office. one of the big questions, i think, is what will this meeting look like? we know that we are coming off a campaign where these two men, when president biden was the

nominee, these two men spoke not in friendly terms about each other, so it will be interesting to see what exactly plays out in this meeting, and in it administration transitions past there had been lengthy conversations in the oval office between the sitting president and the new president. when we see them together it will be interesting to watch body language, what exactly is the body language given the fact that former president trump did not invite resident bite into the white house when he was the president-elect. of course, the tradition we are now returning to where we have seen presidents from president obama inviting former president trump to the white house all the way back to jimmy carter inviting ronald reagan to the white house at that transition back in the 80s. >> can i ask you if you have a sense of the tenor of things in the white house behind you? if the postelection blues, which surely must be in existence, are maybe lighter

than they would've been because of what happened on july 21st of this year? i mean, when president biden said that he was not going to run for re-election as he had been campaigning, as the entire staff was expecting him to do, there was certainly a sense of morning after that. how bad is it now? >> you are right, there was a sense of morning after that. i use all the white house staff and supporters a president biden get behind him and say joe biden did the patriotic thing by stepping aside and allowing someone else to run. at this point there are sort of whispers about the feeling that democrats lost the white house, at the same time the biden administration out front has been saying that they are committed to spending the next 10 weeks or so of this administration doing the work that president biden set out to do. there are still things he wants for college. i mentioned that he is going next week to travel to peru and to brazil to participate in

these summits with other world leaders. so the administration has taken the position that they are not out of office until they are out of office. >> however you said it, it is correct. new developments in the battle for congress. republicans are hoping to control the house with several races waiting to be called this hour. join me once again from capitol hill with really a very close eye on everything. we have nbc's julie sirkin. let's talk about the senate races, two of which are still uncalled. arizona, pennsylvania, what is the latest in both of those and what is your sense of why it is taking so long? >> why it is taking so long, let's start there. in arizona and pennsylvania it is sort of the perfect storm of a lot of knowledge, in the case of arizona, maybe some issues with tabulating those ballots. maybe missing signatures, other issues that they had resolved with those voters before counting, especially the early ballots. they can start counting ballots, even early ones, on election day, coupled that with these two being the closest,

most battleground of battleground senate races to watch right now. that is why it is taking so long. they want to make sure they get this right. for example, and pennsylvania we already had challenges from the mccormick team, the republican candidate challenging incumbent bob casey, trying to get their hands on the oversight process of some of these provisional ballots that are still coming in. the secretary of state of pennsylvania saying more than 100,000 ballots are still left to call, still up to count, excuse me. and that is why you are seeing stuff like this from mccormick yesterday, taking his victory lap while bob casey's team is saying not so fast. watch this, we will talk about it on the other side. >> we knew on election night we had won because the math was clear. and there is no way for senator casey to win. the ap certainly recognize that yesterday by calling the race. senator casey is going to have to work for this, but we have to move on, to changing the direction of the country.

>> i was with dave mccormick on election night, i can tell you they did not know that they won that night. they were very optimistic, especially when the president- elect won pennsylvania, when trump won pennsylvania, it was a very good sign for mccormick. but here is what casey's campaign is saying. it was a new statement, quote, pennsylvanians deserve to have their voices heard, and i state officials have made clear, counties across pennsylvania need more time to tabulate remaining votes. again, more than 100,000 ballots outstanding, casey's campaign claims that a lot of those counties that are favorable to the the three term incumbent senator, but mccormick's campaign thing it is not going to change the results, so i guess we will just see. >> i guess we will see after all the votes are counted. thank you on capitol hill. with me right now, we have alexi mccammon, nbc political analyst and the host of the podcast in sync with alexi. and christina simpson ramirez, president of next-gen america. lexi, i am curious your reaction to this meeting coming up.

are you at all surprised that it is happening so quickly, or is this the norm? i'm curious also what you make of president biden's reaction to the election overall. >> yeah, thanks for having me, alex. i think that it's interesting seeing democrats, president biden, vice president harris sort of saying let's move on, you know, business as usual. let's move forward. we have seen reporting where some staffers of harris have sort of said as much, saying that they are confused by the messaging that trump was a threat to democracy, and now everyone at the top is sort of saying well, let's just move forward and kind of normalize this. it is interesting that the clear threats posed by donald trump to the country are no longer at the top of what president biden or vice president harris are saying. that said, democrats have never been the party to stoop to trump my in behavior, to change the koran or the way that things are done peacefully and respectfully. because of the way that trump operates.

i think it is surprising to how quickly it is happening. >> i think the shock, the aftermath. looking at the counting of the numbers, the votes. they won fair and square, you have to give that to them. but when it comes to issues, christina, as the trump transition team works on plans to carry out mass deportations as he has pledged to do, we have exquisite nbc news reporting that they are considering ending two biden administration programs that allowed more than 1 million immigrants to illegally integrate the u.s. it could cause hundreds of thousands of those immigrants to face deportation if they have not been formally given asylum. so, talk about the impact of that, not only for those families, but for the country as a whole. >> i think people have to remember that jd vance has said that even haitian immigrants that are legally allowed in the united states, amongst other groups, to have legal status to be here, that they want to revoke them from having that legal status.

they have questioned the legality of all kinds of programs, and then if you look at people behind the trump administration, like stephen miller, who helped guide the last administration's most draconian policies where we saw immigrant children being ripped from their mothers, raids across communities that spread terror across mixed status families, that they are also trying to stop what they call the majority becoming people of color in the country. they want to maintain a white majority. people also have to understand it from that lens. this again, is not just about those that are un-document it. this is about trying to change the demographics. when trump was in office, they also did inks like say they wanted to get rid of birthright citizenship. that they wanted to change how the census was done. so, whether it is undercounting immigrants and their children in the u.s. census, trying to shift who is legal in the united states, for going after undocumented immigrants, people

and the american public need to know this is an attempt to keep a white majority by the whites of premises wing of the donald trump campaign and party. >> so, that brings me to this question to you. one of the biggest headlines in this election is trump's games with latino voters. a 14 point jump from 2020. that is according to our exit polls. why that group in particular? what did emma kratz miss, or take for granted, potentially? and what do they need to change in the future? >> right, i think there's two scum units. a lot of latinos come from immigrant families, and a lot of latinos have been in the united states since the united states was even a country. but what we saw, and i can tell you, i live in texas where one in five latinos live, where they made a lot of ground. latinos, we are one of the most poor demographics in the united states. so a huge percentage of us make under $15 an hour. we have twice the national average that we are likely to be uninsured and not have

access to healthcare, and donald trump tapped into and prayed on the latino population that is incredibly poor. when i talk about seeing a pathway forward, if you look at what bernie sanders did in 2020 in the primary, he bet that he could win the primary if he invested heavily in the latino population, with an understanding that a strong economic populist message, deeply investing in latino communications, could win a sniffing a portion of the latino population of programs. you can be mad about it or you can get organized about it. i think democrats need to get organized about it and understand that economic populism is how we are going to win this population back. >> so, white suburban women went for republicans 53-46%. that is down slightly from 2020. but it is still not what democrats are hoping for. have we may be reached the limit of how far the abortion issue can be relied upon to get voters to the polls?

>> i read it a little differently, alex. i think that throughout history we've seen white women siding with our oppressors over black women. we have seen white women upset about black men getting the right to vote before they had the right to vote, not so that all women can have the right to vote, because they did not want black men to have the right to vote before them. we have seen throughout history white women in particular siding with white men, powerful white men, just so that they can have a seat at the table, even though those white men are not looking out for their own interest. while i do think the abortion issue is something that democrats perhaps over indexed on, i do argue that we have seen this throughout history and in some ways it is not surprising to see that large share of white female voters supporting donald trump at a time like this. >> fascinating. alexi and christina, both of you stay with me. we are going to talk about the

great republican hope that wasn't. thus, the new change in focus in the january 6th investigation. we are back in a short 90 seconds. throughout the day when you can take 1 prilosec. for easier heartburn relief, one beats ten. prilosec otc. one pill. 24 hours. zero heartburn.

now to a new nbc exclusive report revealing the justice department plans to focus on arresting only the most egregious january 6th rioters in the remaining 72 days before president-elect donald trump is

sworn into a new term. the doj is expected to focus on charging those who committed felony assaults on law enforcement officers before trump is expected to shut down the investigation into the insurrection. 20 me once again we have nbc's ryan riley, author of the book sedition hunters, how january 6th broke the justice system. ryan, big picture here. 1500 people have been charged for their roles in the attack. how many more suspects could be charged before donald trump is sworn in? >> i think if they stay on track and they meet their goals it would probably be about 75. those are the ones who are on that list. there are more who have been identified, but they were not on that fbi capital violence webpage. you go through and scroll down right now, seeing those photos. remember, the fbi was really caught flat footed in this investigation. they sort of missed all the signs in the lead up to january 6th, and then in the aftermath they were really behind on technology. so the online sleuths have been driving a lot of this

investigation. and i've had these names in hand for years, often. it is just a matter of getting them sort of over the finish line, and all of the bureaucratic hurdles you have to get over, equity one of the biggest things, the these are, you're working with various field offices of the fbi across the country with very different leadership, very different politics. so you don't really know who is at the other end of that line, often, when you are calling and trying to work with an fbi agent to try to get one of these january 6th rioters. >> let me ask you quickly about the former leader of the proud boys, really central to the capital attack. he has hinted that he is seeking a presidential pardon. what are the concerns about that? >> yeah, everybody is seeking a pardon. we have seen this from everyone. he has the longest sentence today. he was convicted of seditious conspiracy. the proud boys were the most violent actors on january 6, collectively. so i think that is really what we are looking at here. he has the longest sentence, 22 years. but you're going to see people all the way down who were only doing a couple your sentences, looking for those departments.

everybody wants to get that clear from the record, even if this will be forever referenced in history. >> okay, ryan, good to see you, as always. let's bring back in alexi mcammond and christina simpson ramirez. there was hope that republicans would break away from trump. there was a big theme of country over party, tied to january 6th, of course. in the end, the nbc exit poll shows that only about 5% of republicans supported harris, that is nearly equal to the percent of democrats that went to trump. rolling stone now reports democratic insiders pushed for harris not to campaign with liz cheney, and focus on the democratic base. so, what are the lessons there, was there not enough messaging to simply direct to core democrats? >> yeah, look, i know you have been covering this throughout the day on your show, too. we will see so many postmortems and lame games and finger- pointing from democrats and in different reporting.

a lot of people saying that they could've done things differently. i think that liz cheney was certainly a choice by the democratic party, but it is clear that voters across the country are moving away from the traditional party identification, of being really strong or loyal democrats and becoming more individualistic people who don't really care about history or tradition, and they especially are not attracted to establishment figures like liz cheney or the cheney family. it is all very reminiscent, honestly, bring back the clintons and reminding people of the legacies that have built the democratic party that is so far proved that it cannot stay in touch with where the american people are feeling, what they want out of political leaders and organizers, and who they actually want to support and vote for. >> and christina, you have nick fuentes, a far right neo-tran26 and trump supporter who posted on x tuesday night, your body,

my choice forever. that vile phrase now being widely used along with other attacks and threats against women online. are you worried about sexism increasing in the second trump term, and if so, what is the best way to combat it? >> you know, i am really worried about the public health of women across the country. i live in texas. the state that really led the national trend for trump abortion bans. one in three women in a country now live in a state where there is an abortion ban and women are dying in our state. so i think that tweet just shows where many in the republican party are at with their thinking about women. i think that this election, abortion really did matter. but overall, this election was really ever referendum on the last administration. and the administration has done so much to move in the right direction on economic policy. canceling student debt, investing in infrastructure.

but making sure that it was for good, union jobs. that messaging, tying those policies just did not resonate with this electorate. >> okay, we just lost christina, clearly. let me ask you a question about house democratic leader hakeem jeffries, who says he is going to take charge of democratic resistance, whether democrats control the chamber or not. so what does that look like? especially if democrats lose the house? we have not gotten that determination, but will americans be up for a battle after a bruising election? >> it remains to be seen, but we have seen in the past, of course, that donald trump is willing to activate on some of his more controversial policies on day one. you will remember the muslim travel ban that happen very early on in his first

presidency. we saw nationwide protests at airports, we saw companies like huber and lift getting involved, offering discounts to people who needed rides to and from the airport to protest. it was a different time, to be sure. of course, as you kind of alluded to, people are exhausted and fed up. that said, when there is something to fight against, or something that people believe passionately in and they want to fight for, we have seen how folks are willing to show up time and again across the country, across the world, even, when you think of the women's marches. against president trump when he is in power. >> last question to you, christina, i'm glad you're back. how do democrats get the kind of media and messaging machines that the republicans seem to have? how do they fight the increased power of the republicans once they are in office? >> yeah, i think there are several things that happened this election, and what i was trying to say earlier is that i don't think we should inc. that the democratic already is

broken, as some people have said. democrats won the last three elections, and republicans did not turn around and say the republican party is broken. they turned around and said how do we expand the electorate and meet them with a message that will resonate with their pain through all these different mediums? and democrats need to do some of that. we know that the american people are in deep economic pain. it happened for years, even before 2020. you had nearly 70% of americans not have more than $1000 in savings. half of those over age 55 have zero dollars in retirement, and while one in five student debt borrowers were in default. we need to make sure we are meeting that economic pain through a strong economic populist message, and being clear about who is to blame. republicans are trying to tell the american people, who are in deep economic pain, we see your economic pain. but who's to blame are mostly poor brown and black immigrants that pick your fruits and vegetables, they clean your home, and maybe a few trans

folks. instead of saying that is to concentrate on. instead of people like elon musk , who is worth $250 billion. and if you are on twitter like i am, now every third tweet i receive is that propaganda filled from his feed telling me that. he is telling millions of americans that. we need to push back on that and be clear about who is responsible for people's economic pain. it is the most wealthy corporations and the most wealthy americans in this country, and that is how we will win people back. we have to have a clear villain to show who is responsible for people's economic pain, and i don't know that we did that this election. >> sounds like you'll be rolling up your shirtsleeves, both of you, in fact, and doing the work. ladies, thank you so much. good to see you both. how president biden might leave an indelible mark on the supreme court, but will it work? that is next. that is next. )

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impact it could have on the supreme court. the possible retirements of justice samuel alito and thomas would give president-elect trump two new appointments, making them the first president since franklin roosevelt to appoint a majority of justices to the court. joining me now is nbc news senior reporter lawrence hurley. lawrence, welcome, it's good to talk with you. i know in a new article we write the republican-controlled senate under its new leader will prioritize confirming conservative judges come january, including to the supreme court. conservatives already have eight 6-3 majority on the high court, so how might that change and when would that change happen? >> yeah, sure, with obviously republicans controlling the senate and the white house, there is a lot of incentive for the older conservative justices on the supreme court to maybe think about whether they want to step down. there is no indication that

they are going to, but as you mentioned, justice alito, justice thomas are both in their 70s. justice thomas would turn 80 at the end of trump's term. we saw it with justice stephen breyer, where he was under a lot of pressure to step down when president biden got elected, because he was in his 80s, and he did so and was replaced by justice jackson. you can see a similar scenario playing out, where perhaps early in trump's term, even as soon as the spring of next year, maybe one of the conservative justices might step down. but again, we have no idea yet whether they actually will. it is definitely something people in republican legal circles are talking about quite a lot right now. >> and in fact, on the flipside, some democrats are pushing for justice. sonja soto mayor who is 70 years old, also a lifetime diabetic. she sat down so president biden can replace her before he leaves office, to avoid the potential repeat of trump appointing a liberal justice. could this feasibly happen, and i am curious what are the risks

if they pursue this? >> at this point it seems pretty likely. there was some discussion earlier this year from people on the left saying that justice sotomayor could think about stepping down so the democrats could replace her, but obviously that did not happen, and now the window is obviously much smaller just a few weeks left until trump gets back in. so there is no indication from justice sotomayor that she is thinking about this, either. it seems pretty unlikely. as you said, there are some risks. they have to get a nominee put forth in the senate, they have to get it through the senate, which is still , although democrats are in control, narrowly, to get all the votes they can. there is a risk, they might not be able to fill the seat. and there is no indication, really, justice sotomayor is 10 years younger than justice ginsburg was when she was being pressured to step down during the obama administration. so she is in a different place. >> you also wrote about trump's

pledge that in a second term he would sign an executive order on day one ending birthright citizenship. he claims this would stop so- called birth tourism. and under trump's proposal, at least one parent would need to be a citizen or legal resident for a child to get right citizenship. civil rights groups are pledging to fight this, but what could that legal fight look like? >> yeah, as you say, that will almost certainly lead to a legal fight. and also one that trump would probably lose, because it is very clear in the 14th amendment of the constitution that there is a right to birthright citizenship. so even conservative judges and scholars have said that in the past. whereas it might be a political move by trump to rile some people up in his early days in office, even the supreme court that has the 6-3 conservative majority is probably going to stop short of endorsing that one.

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a new report raising alarms this hour about the possibility of president-elect trump politicizing and womanizing u.s. intelligence agencies. former intelligence officials say trump loyalists could soon reshape the makeup and mission of the cia. joining me now, john seifer, former cia officer and

cofounder of spy craft entertainment. john, welcome back to the show. here's the thing, you spent decades working in the cia, in the national clandestine service, of course. do you expect trump to webinars the cia? i mean, what is to stop them? >> actually, there is not a lot to stop them. because our intelligence agencies are given a lot of latitude, legally, to work were presidents and under presidents. and in the last demonstration he did, in some ways, when richard cannell was in there or john radcliffe, they were often times cherry picking intelligence to try to help trump or help the trump campaign. but it could get very much worse this time. there is a narrative that they created, the sense that somehow these institutions work against the president. and it is clearly false. the institutions, the fbi, cia, the intelligence community in general work for the president

of the united states and for american citizens to collect intelligence abroad. so i really hope that they take it seriously and they put serious people in there. because they are very powerful institutions, and they can create a lot of problems for us if they are used for personal or partisan gain. >> okay, let's get trump reports that he will appoint maga staff , he would be appointing him as cia director. what do you know about patel and how his potentially appointment as cia director would affect agency? >> i think most professionals would find a real problem with this. he is someone who does not have experience in the intelligence community, he does not have experience in the national security community. but he has experience doing whatever donald trump tells him to do. and that is not what you want in your intelligence community. what you want is telling truth to power. you want to prepare presidents for hard decisions. they may want their preconceived notions to be reaffirmed, but that's not what you want in your intelligence committee. you want them to tell you and

give you warnings about things they might not be seeing. but people like patel will be there only to help donald trump. they will be looking for information to help them personally, they will be looking to cover up information that they think might be embarrassing to him, so i would find that to be a very serious danger, and i think most professionals would, as well. >> but in his second term it appears that trump is focused on appointing people who follow marching orders and will not stand in his way, because he did not like it when staffers pushed back through his first term. so, gain that out in terms of what it means for national security. >> yeah, he was unprepared last time. he did not know much about governing, did not have interest in governing. tried to bring in people, professionals, people who are serious. and obviously got some pushback, he did not like that. it is very clear he was going to bring people who are far, far more on the moderate right and will do what he wants. the government is this massive,

complex instrument that does a tremendous amount of things for the economy and security, and is of the kind of things. you know, having partisan loyalists in those places in the justice department and others can be really problematic, but in a place like the intelligence community it is especially a problem. because those organizations are very powerful. and from 1947, when the cia was created, until the 70s, they were often used as personal weapons of residents. they covered up their failures, and the fbi under j edgar hoover was doing wiretapping of people like martin luther king and others. and in the 1970s there were reforms, and they put in serious congressional oversight, they put in new laws, and subsequent administrations have tried to make sure that our national security administration organizations are very tightly run and focus on what they want to do. and if they are turned to try to focus against the american people or if they are filled with nonprofessionals, it could

be very dangerous. the cia now has one person who is a political appointee, the director. everyone else are professionals who spend years and years trying to learn their craft. you just throw those people out and you bring in unprepared partisans, you have really lost something that has been building for decades and decades. >> so, to that end, given the critical nature of intelligence sharing with intel agencies around the world, the key allies, would some become reluctant to share with trump in charge again? how could that compromise national security, do you think it might? >> i'm sure it would. i would guess that under the clandestine service, we work with foreign partners around the world. places you would not even think of to help us on a day-to-day basis. we are there every day working with them, developing relationships, developing trust and sharing information. countries share information that could be very damaging to them if it came out, that is very beneficial to the united

states and has saved lives. if they see the u.s. intelligence immunity and the cia being unprofessional or being staffed by people who are not serious or are only looking to benefit the president of the united states political or personal issues, they are going to stop sharing with us. and the thing is, we won't even know it. they will smile, they will continue to go out and have drinks and do those things, but they are not going to share their most important secrets and it will end up hurting us, national security wise, and probably even losing lives because of it. >> sobering. we will speak with you again. and elon musk jumping around on the stage with donald trump may have paid off in more ways than one.

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around potential conflicts of interest he may have with the federal government. musk also briefly spoke with ukrainian president zelenskyy on a phone call with the president-elect, though it was not known what was discussed. joining us now is new york times investigator journalist david farren holds. in an article, you asked what could musk want from trump for putting more than $100 million of his own money into the campaign? i mean, first it would seem, it given his business with the federal government, that there would be conflict of interest. so, are there? >> well, certainly. elon musk once a whole lot of things from the federal government. on one hand he wants contracts. he already has a lot of contracts from nasa and the defense apartment to shoot other satellites. on the other hand, he really wants less regulation. he is regulated by a variety of federal agencies and he is often fighting with them about the limits they are putting on tesla's self driving cars, or the delays they put into spacex

's rocket launchers. he would certainly like his relations to go away or be forced in a way he could speed up. the question to me is what sort of role he will get in the trump administration. trump talked about him having a role as the head of government efficiency, which would give them some pretty direct oversight over the agencies that oversee him. as it seems like now, he seems like sort of a presidential sidekick or a copresident. he may not even need a formal role to exercise that kind of power. >> so, this government efficiency commission, something he has talked about previous commissions, if you will, there sort of like this. they have not had power to change, they have had power to recommend. but could trump change that and give elon musk the power? >> i don't think we will ever see elon musk with the same kind of power he had at twitter or tesla, where he could point at somebody say you are fired, or your division is gone. the constitution has not changed, despite trump's election. that means if you're going to

cut a department, cut spending, cut regulation, elon musk can't do it and trump can't do it even as president. he has very limited power to change those kinds of things. congress has to do it. so this sort of problem for all the other times presidents have had to do this, let's appoint a rich businessman to overhaul the government, run it like a business, it runs back to congress. congress created this inefficiency to begin with and they all have their own reasons for keeping it. so i don't see musk with the power to override that. >> that some of his companies are facing federal investigations, notably tesla, for allegedly misleading consumers and wire fraud. then you have x for alleged privacy practice concerns. so, what happens to these? could donald trump make those investigations just disappear? >> i mean, i think he has the capacity to do that. he will be appointing the heads of the departments that oversee these agencies, and it is not a guarantee, but i don't think those people are going to be interested in investigations that are going to antagonize elon musk. that means a lot to musk.

just to pick out one example, he says the future of tesla is self driving robot taxis, basically that we will not need to be driven by humans anymore, we will just have self driving tesla's. but the national highway transportation safety administration holding that up, wondering if it is safe. and if that investigation went away, elon, in theory, could have a pathway to a significant expansion to one of his core businesses. >> okay, frankly i could talk to you all day. we are going to have you back again soon. thank you so much. that will do it for me on this edition of alex witt reports. i will see you again tomorrow at 1:00 p.m. eastern. meanwhile, my friend paola ramose picks up my coverage from here at the top of the hour. you'll love this! centrum silver is clinically proven to support memory in older adults. so you can keep saying, you mastered it! you fixed it! you nailed it! you did it! with centrum silver, clinically proven to support memory in older adults.

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it's our son, he is always up in our business. it's the verizon 5g home internet i got us. oh... he used to be a competitive gamer but with the higher lag, he can't keep up with his squad. so now we're his “squad”. what are kevin's plans for the fall? he's going to college. out of state, yeah. -yeah in the fall. change of plans, i've decided to stay local. oh excellent! oh that's great! why would i ever leave this? -aw! we will do anything to get him gaming again. you and kevin need to fix this internet situation. heard my name! i swear to god, kevin! -we told you to wait in the car. everyone in my old squad has xfinity. less lag, better gaming! i'm gonna need to charge you for three people. good afternoon, i'm paola ramos. we are covering to you live this hour covering the trump transition and the latest movements from mar-a-lago on who donald trump may pick to carry out the supreme policies he has promised. we also have news on a white house meeting this week between