legislatively, the calendar just gets filled up with these court nominations. donald trump is going to be the same. they made enormous impact the first four years. i think the next four are going to completely reshape the judiciary in a conservative direction. there's very little democrats can do about it because the rules have been changed. they need a simple majority. for decades, you'll have a lot of conservative judges on the bench. >> trump already had three supreme court appointments, likely to have more. there's been rumors about justice sotomayor, whether she'd step down, but her team says that's not going to be the case. we'll see in the years ahead. brendan buck, thank you, as always. we'll talk again real season. and thanks to all of you for getting up "way too early" with us on this monday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. donald trump, who tried to forcibly overturn the results of the last election, was returned to office by an overwhelming

majority. >> he called for vengeance against his political enemies. >> now, thanks to the supreme court, there are no guardrails. >> nothing to protect the people who are brave enough to speak out against him. >> that is why we add "snl" would like to say to donald trump, we have been with you all along. >> we have never wavered in our support of you. even when others doubted you. >> every single person on this stage believes in you. >> every single person on this stage voted for you. >> because we see othe ourselve you. we look at you and think, that's me. that's the man i want my future children to look up to. >> mr. trump, your honor, we know that you say things that are controversial sometimes, but really, you're just speaking the truth. and i hate how the lame stream media, michael cseh, tries to spin it to make you look

foolish. >> if you're keeping some sort of list of your enemies, then we should not be on that list. >> and it is c-h-e. >> going after his "weekend update" colleagues. welcome to "morning joe." it is monday, november 11th, veterans day. >> happy veterans day. >> we have "way too early"'s jonathan lemire. the president of the national action network and host of "politics nation," reverend al sharpton, and zanny minton beddoes joins us of "the economist." >> jonathan, we have to start with the patriots. they win. jets lose, just like old times. the lions, a comeback for the ages. >> unexpected, the new england patriots are referenced at 6:02

a.m. on a monday morning, but they won. drake may was pretty good. they have the quarterback of the future. meanwhile, the jets got crushed in arizona. we should put an end to -- >> what's going on there with aaron rodgers especially? i mean, is he going to quit halfway through the season? i can't imagine he's having a good time out there. >> there are moments where he looks like he quit on the field, frankly. he doesn't want to be hit. he's a 40-year-old quarterback. we were spoiled seeing tom brady excel into his 40s. rodgers not doing to, coming off a major injury. the team has given him everything he wants in terms of weapons. hand-picked his roster and wide receivers, but they're getting beaten week in and week out. playoff hopes are gone. you mentioned it. two takeaways yesterday, two teams seem to be above the rest of the league right now. the kansas city chiefs and the detroit lions. both finding ways to win when they don't play well. jared goff for the lions last night throws five interceptions, one, two, three, four, five.

yet, they still win by that kick that squeaked in the uprights there. lions beat a pretty good texans team on the road in houston to move to, i believe, 8-1. the chiefs, 9-0. they still have not lost. they find the most improbable ways to win. they have had, i believe, four games that have come down to the last play. they've won all four, including this one. it should have been a gimme. 35 yard field goal blocked. the chiefs' defense overwhelmed the broncos offensive line. they find a way to win again. >> great teams find a way to win when they're playing terribly. that's why no one this year is confusing the dallas cowboys as a great team. they're playing terribly. they just keep losing. all right, mika, on to the news. >> we will move on now. we're learning much more this morning about donald trump's transition efforts and how the process could be playing out.

"the wall street journal" reports trump's transition team has put together digital presentations for the president-elect that feature headshots of potential contenders for key cabinet positions. now, people familiar with the process tell the paper that aides are reviewing candidates' television interviews to gauge whether they are adept at selling trump's agenda. the efforts reflect the priorities of the incoming commander in chief who expects that his cabinet secretaries look the part and keep track of what allies and adversaries say about him on cable news. the paper continues, the digital presentations on a screen instead of in briefing books will feature detail of candidates' resumes and are intended to give the president-elect an easy way to pour over his options, the people said. trump, his advisors said, relishes the process of picking his staff and the attention it

brings. and for some of the picks taking shape, president-elect trump announced tom who -- tom homan to be his administration's border czar. in a post on truth social, trump wrote that homan's areas of control will include the southern and northern borders, all maritime and aviation security. trump added border czar homan will be in charge of the deportation of illegal immigrants. homan touts hard line immigration views and previously vowed to run the biggest deportation force this country has ever seen. >> obviously, this is going to be a big part of what donald trump likely does at the beginning of his administration. he promised mass deportations. historic deportations.

american people heard it every day for about a year and a half and voted for him. so this is going to be one of the first things, and i would guess one of the great challenges would be, politically for this possible director, to avoid the sort of chaos we saw at the beginning of his first term, where those first three, four days were just pictures of airports and other places just absolutely jammed with people, with protests, with chaos. >> yeah, i think you're absolutely right. this is clearly a top priority. president-elect trump will want to make a big show very early on of people being deported. i think for me, the question is not will that happen? it definitely will. the question is whether they're really serious about trying to deport millions of people. because the effort cost involved in deporting millions of people, you have to create a huge infrastructure. whether or not you have to use

the military, it'd be months and months of really absolute focus. one thing i've realized in the last few days talking to a lot of people about how, you know, this administration will set its priorities, is that will come at a price. if you focus overwhelmingly on the border, it takes bandwidth. there will be other things he won't be doing. i'm expecting a very big show on this, a lot of stuff at the very beginning, but the real question will be, are they serious about the millions and millions of people? >> right. >> you're so right, the bandwidth to do this, what he said he's going to do, it'll take up a lot of the attention for the first two, three months. whoever is going to be running that agency is going to have to be dealing with the situation, the huge logistical challenges of it, and, of course, there's going to be a lot of reporting on it. >> yeah. >> if it is chaotic like last time, it gets the administration off on the wrong foot. >> president trump announced two

former cabinet members who won't be rejoining him at the white house. trump posted that he would not invite former ambassador to the united nations, nikki haley, or former secretary of state mike pompeo to join his new administration. poet pompo and haley had fallen out of favor with the former president but had endorsed his presidential run. i wonder what that portends. >> i don't know. jonathan lemire, obviously, loyalty is going to be at the top of donald trump's priorities. you also have both of these people, at different times, being critical of donald trump. as we've said all along, as you've said and reported, this next administration, he's not going to just hire a lot of people and wonder how it is going to shake out. he's looked at what they've said. he's looking at actually how they appear on tv, whether or not they'll embarrass him while they're out there. he is lining this up differently than he did in 2016. >> yeah, in 2016, he was willing

to let the establishment figures make suggestions. that's why he ended up with a mattis, tillerson, and the like. this time, it'll be loyalists. we'll talk later in the show about his recess appointments request. that's to fill out the government with pure loyalists to do what when he wants right away. deportations, that is going to be the signature move early on, at least that's what's promised. to zanny's point earlier, a massive undertaking that will be met with a lot of resistance. some democratic governors, like massachusetts governor healey, said they won't allow their state's national guard to be part of this. millions of people who have been living in america are going to be taken out of the country, the disruption to the fabric of society, the disruption to the economy, there will be business leaders speaking out. there could indeed, joe, to your point, be real chaos. there are some who think the chaos might dissuade trump from going through with it, at least

fully. but, zanny, let's talk a little bit about some of the figures here who are not going to be part of the trump administration going forward. no real surprise on nikki haley. she ran against trump, was critical of trump. the two never spoke during the campaign. it is not a surprise she's not part of it. but mike pompeo, yes, he was briefly critical of trump at a cpac appearance, but otherwise was seen as a loyal and productive member of his administration. what does it tell you that pompeo and someone with pompeo's world view isn't going to be part of the next administration? >> i think it's a very, very important sign. you know, for most of the campaign, a shorthand way of asking what this administration would be like was to say, would it be a jd vance administration, or would it be a mike pompeo foreign policy? this public humiliation in the sense of secretary pompeo. how often do you issue a statement saying you're not going to hire people? this was done very, very clearly to make a point. the point was, the

internationalists, reagan-strong policy approach is not coming. i saw secretary pompeo in kyiv a month ago, and he was very, very clear. he said it was important that the good guys are seen to win. that view that it was important for american interests and american strength that ukraine be seen to win was one side of the debate. i think that side looks like it is now lost. if i were in kyiv right now, i would be really worried. it looks as though it is very much the kind of let putin have more of what he wants, push ukraine to be demilitarized. it'll be hard to persuade trump to get ukraine into nato. this is a bad sign. >> let me ask about "the washington post" article. we have richard haass coming up, will be talking in a little bit about this. i'm curious what your sources have been telling you overnight. "the washington post" ran a story yesterday that donald trump spoke with vladimir putin over the weekend and very clearly said, don't expand the war.

russia is pushing back on that. maybe because russia doesn't like how the story was framed. i don't think "the washington post" is backing off of their reporting. do you have any reporting on that? if that, in fact, is what he said, how significant would that be? >> so i would definitely trust "the washington post" over the russian statement, so i'm not too concerned about that reporting. i think it's not at all surprising. what i think is interesting is that i do think president trump is going to want to try to avoid a view that ukraine is completely defeated. >> right. >> but what he is going to try to figure out now, he's promised to end the war in a day. that's clearly not going to happen. but he is going to try to orchestrate a deal which, you know, ukraine will lose the territory russians currently have. everybody knows that. the question is, what kind of security guarantee does ukraine get to prevent vladimir putin later on just marching in further? that's where i think the announcement of secretary pompeo not being part of the

administration is bad news. what i think president-elect trump is trying to do is give a sense that he is going to talk tough and is going to say, "don't expand the war." vladimir putin just launched an enormous drone attack on ukraine. it's going to be going through the winter. it'll smash up the infrastructure. it's clear that the russians are on the offensive in the east. they're gaining ground. i'm not sure i would -- if i were vladimir putin, i'd pay too much attention just on those words. right now, it looks as though putin has the upper hand. >> it will be interesting, mika. obviously, you have the north koreans now that are going to be fighting and trying to push further with the russians into ukraine. the question is, again, and we've talked about this a good bit over the past few years, you have donald trump, what he says to vladimir putin, and then you have the actual policies that have been fairly tough in the first administration. the senate was pushing really tough restrictions. i think the last thing he would want, wanting to be seen as a

strongman, would be to have -- to be forever remembered as the guy who lost ukraine to vladimir putin. it is going to be interesting, see what -- if there is any settlement, what the settlement looks like. leaders of political organizations who have been against donald trump are grappling with the president-elect's return to white house, and looking at the new playbook for the policies of a second trump administration. in january of 2017, millions of americans across the country took to the streets for the women's march in opposition of donald trump. they were organized, beginning of the broad coalition that successfully swept trump out of power, and gave democrats a governing trifecta in the 2020 election. now, some of the most ardent trump detractors say they need to shift their focus. for example, the executive director of the women's march, rachel o'leary carmona, said,

quote, "it's not enough just for people to hit the streets. we need to build political power compared to 2016. we have connections to people that are building policy." that, i remember you saying during that march, before it even, but there is an extent of building a coalition, building energy, but also keeping the data and then working with it. >> right, exactly. marches don't get you elected. they just don't. they work well, reverend al, as you know, worked well in the civil rights movement. but just being the resistance, just going out, and the resistance did not work against donald trump this time. it seemed like democrats talking to democrats. independents weren't swept along. republicans were fueled to go vote more. this is actually, i'd think, a positive viewpoint, to say maybe we focus less on these big

events and organizations and do more of what republicans have been doing for a generation. that's going to school boards, electing school board members, county commissioners, electing people on the local level and building them up. actually starting a movement. if you look at the map of this election, you have to go from california, the border of california all the way over to virginia. to find states that voted for kamala harris. everything else between the two coasts, a deep, dark red. you look at that and say, there is no way democrats will ever take control of the senate again unless they figure out how to win grassroots campaigns in the middle of the country. >> there's no doubt about the fact that you must have real organizing on the ground if

you're going to affect policy and make change happen. clearly, i think what happens with some of the marches, they became big events, but they were not connected to a movement on the ground that would change policy. you referred to the civil rights movement. there was a direct connection between dr. king and others that were marching and those that were trying to legislate, for example, civil rights act of '64, voting rights act of '65. there will be gatherings on the inauguration day in washington next year when trump is inaugurated, but they'll be done by groups that are going to be using them to organize and highlight policy. it happens to be martin luther king day, so they'll be there, but they're connected. i think some of these organic marches are good to raise an issue, but they're not connected on changing policy and electing people. many were attacked by those who

became overnight activists. i call them microwave actactivi, that get hot for a minute and cool off, then you're left to organize. the people organizing are not the ones with the flash marches. that's why you'll see some gatherings, but i think it will not be those that are not understanding they must be connected to a policy and elected people in county, state, city, as well as federal. >> we have more on this ahead. let's look at the other stories making headlines this morning. there is yet more instability in haiti. the country's ruling party fired a former u.n. official just hired in may in hopes of tamping down a political power struggle amid a wave of kidnappings and killings. haiti's last president was murdered in july of 2021 and no elections have been held since. supreme court justice sonia sotomayor has no plans to step aside before president-elect

donald trump takes office. that news follows suggestions from liberal circles that the 70-year-old should retire to give president biden the chance to fill the seat with a younger appointment. senator bernie sanders was asked about it over the weekend. >> senator, quickly, before i let you go, i want to ask about the supreme court. some democrats behind the scenes quietly talking about the possibility, should justice sotomayor step down to allow president biden to appoint someone who is younger? she's only 70 years old. is that something you would support? do you think she should step down? >> no. i don't. >> have you heard any talk of this? >> a little bit, yeah. i don't think it is a sensible approach. >> you don't think it is a sensible approach? >> correct. >> huh, well, man of few words there. i will say, roe was overturned

because donald trump was able to fill the appointment of ruth bader ginsburg, who did not retire. it's just reality. >> yeah. >> and it changed 50 years of precedent. >> changed everything for women. >> i don't think he can just say, no, no, it doesn't make sense. it probably makes sense to talk about it. if you don't talk about it, that's fine. why don't democrats keep doing what democrats are doing, have been doing, their leaders in washington, d.c., and just pretending? pretending that if they're polite, never offend anybody, everything will go away. it doesn't. >> that's a bigger conversation. >> it keeps coming to your doorstep. yeah, it is a bigger conversation what we're going to be talking about in our must-read opinion pages. this morning, so many people talking about this. >> a lot of calls about it.

>> talking about the things democrats were afraid to talk about during the campaign. >> we'll do that. finally, pbs kids is rolling out an animated series for younger children that features main characters with autism. according to the network, carl the collector is aimed at 4 to 8-year-olds and was to focus on neurodivergent kids to expand the perspectives on autism. the show's creator says it'll encourage empathy and understanding and celebrate the entire spectrum of humanity. >> you know, this is so important. >> i like that. >> i've got a son that's got as aspergers. i look back to middle school and high school, and you'd see kids that didn't quite fit in, and you never really knew why. they were on the spectrum. maybe not dramatically on the spectrum, but on the spectrum. this is obviously great for kids to see. still ahead on "morning

joe," democrats and the case of mistaken identity politics. we're going to read from the maureen dowd post more item of the election and why donald trump won. plus, we're learning more about the anti-semitic violence that look place in amsterdam last week. >> it was calculated. it was frightening. it confirms everything we've been saying about anti-semitism across europe and the globe. >> what city officials are saying about how the attacks were organized. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. in 90 seconds. hi, my name is damian clark. if you have both medicare and medicaid, i have some really encouraging news that you'll definitely want to hear. depending on the plans available in your area, you may be eligible to get extra benefits with a humana medicare

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anti-semitic attacks in amsterdam. the violence erupted on thursday during a soccer match between a dutch and an israeli team. authorities say there were confrontations before and after the game. in some instances, fans were chased through the streets and pelted with fireworks. according to the "wall street journal," israeli soccer fans say it came to a boil after two days of being harassed and stalked in amsterdam. the city's mayor says the messaging app telegram was used to talk about going on jew hunts. one israeli soccer fan told "the journal" the attack were well organized, saying, quote, "they knew exactly where we stayed. they knew exactly which hotels,

which streets we were going to take." we'll be following that. >> so frightening. qatar stopped mediating the cease-fire talks between israel and hamas. a diplomatic source tells nbc news qatari officials halted their efforts because both sides have failed to make any progress. officials say they're willing to resume mediating discussions if israel and hamas show a genuine intent to negotiate. meanwhile, saudi arabia kick off a summit to address conflicts in gaza and lebanon, bringing together top officials from arab countries. also, what might be expected from the united states after trump takes over in january. joining us now from the summit in saudi arabia's capital, chief international correspondent keir simmons. what are you learning?

>> reporter: well, this is an extraordinary arab-islamic summit here in riyadh. it is a gathering of 80 countries in the middle east and central asia and beyond in asia. it is a gathering to show support for gaza and lebanon. now, there are going to be critics who are going to say there's going to be a lot of talk here. it is a one-day summit. but i think what it does underscore is the way that arab and islamic countries have been driven together over the past year. we are seeing here, for example, the first vice president of iran, president assad of syria is here. a united front being demonstrated, hosted, as you say, by saudi arabia. of course, a high-level delegation of the palestinians is here. president erdogan of turkey. the list goes on. there are 80 countries.

i think one of the challenges that you really see here for president-elect trump is that the world has really changed. there is a different middle east. what we have seen from the kingdom of saudi arabia just in the past few months is that it has shifted more towards insisting that there has to be a two-state solution. there has to be a palestinian state before it would agree to normalization with israel or to a treaty alliance with the united states, which is that mega deal that people have been talking about through the biden administration. also kind of a child of the abraham accords, if you like, what was birthed with the first trump administration. that's one example of the way that things have really changed since 2016. just another example to think about is that during the first trump presidency, there was, of course, that war in yemen

between the houthis, saudi arabia, and the emeratis. that isn't happening anymore. speaking to trump, mohammed bin salman had a call yesterday. as mentioned, the vice president of iran is here. what you're seeing from gulf states, particularly saudi arabia, for example, is that they are trying to lean into diplomacy with iran, even while israel and prime minister netanyahu is talking about confrontation with iran. a stark difference. i should just say, you know, president-elect trump is friends with mohammed bin salman and friends with netanyahu, so i guess one question is, who is he going to listen to? >> all right. that is one of many questions that we're going to be learning in the coming months. nbc's keir simmons reporting live from saudi arabia, thanks so much. >> thank you, keir. >> let's bring in president

emeritus on the council of foreign relations, richard haass. the author of "home and away," available on substack. qatar throwing their arms in the air, saying no more. richard, it's been a process that's been frustrating from the very beginning. you, of course, on one side have hamas, the terrorists who started this on october 7th of last year. with netanyahu, you also have somebody who -- it was just never in his political advantage domestically to find reasons to have a cease-fire, to bring the hostages home. in fact, it was in his best political interest to continue expanding the war. first from gaza, into lebanon, now regionally provoing a possible war with iran. here we are. the question is, how hard is it going to be to put this all back together when you had the saudis, the emiratis, and a lot of other countries, jordan

across the region, that were willing to come in and help rebuild gaza? >> keir has it right, joe. the idea, excuse me, that you could somehow put on the side of the palestinian issue has been shown not to be true. in some ways, that led to october 7th. it was station identification for hamas. the question now is where to go. you can't make peace more than -- well, outsiders can't try to make peace more than the protagonists themselves want it. hamas doesn't want it. the israeli government hasn't wanted it. i think gaza is essentially on a trajectory probably for a long-term grind. you know, for want of a more elegant word. it takes two to make peace. i don't think that you have it. meanwhile, the israelis focused their attention to the north. again, they're continuing to war there against hezbollah. i think they're waiting to see what iran does. if iran is foolish enough to again use military force against

israel, i think israel will come down on them with a ton of bricks this time. israelis have responded with restraint twice, not on the third time. i think they're going to see that as an opportunity to come down hard, and the united states is probably going to be pressed to join with them, make it more effective. what no one is talking about is what is going on in the west bank, which is where the majority of palestinians live. increasingly there, life is getting more and more militarized between these various militias that are, to some extent, modeling themselves on hamas, and israeli settlers and the defense forces. the middle east has few, if any, prerequisites of peace. last time, they ignored the issue largely with the abraham accords. they can't do that this time. >> peace and prosperity. you know, we're talking about all the different reasons why the democrats lost over this

past week and lost the way they did. i'm just wondering, you know, somebody wrote this weekend, it always comes back to peace and prosperity. i think it was david french. there wasn't peace, there was prosperity. but if you look at the price of gas and groceries over the past several years, housing prices, those went up. on the peace side, i'm wondering, i started really thinking, with two trump allies in both israel and in russia, i'm just curious, was there ever any chance for -- you know, if this had been at the first year or the second year of the biden administration, there wasn't a possible trump administration to look forward to, would have there been a better chance of peace then, or was there just never a better chance of peace with the possibility of donald trump coming in within a year and giving both sides a better settlement than they would get

from biden? >> it's one of those what ifs, joe. i think in the middle east, after october 7th, there wasn't much chance of peace given what this israeli government wanted and what bibi netanyahu's political and personal calculations were. i think, you know, earlier on, had the biden administration or trump administration pressed the ukrainians harder to moderate their definition of winning, to accept something more modest, and then had made clear we'd support them, so long as they adopted that, but then really pressed the russians hard, i think that might have moved the war maybe away from the battlefield to the negotiating table. i think that's the sort of thing that is likely to happen a year from now. again, i heard from zanny said, the real fear is the ukrainians will be thrown under the bus right now, which would be a disaster for them and, arguably, for europe and for taiwan and others. but, you know, i think one of the lessons of all this, let me give you a different argument, is that we've reached a point in history where the ability of the

united states to dictate is much diminished. people use words like hegemony. this is not a world of american hegemony. this is a world in which all sorts of military capacities have spread. they've proliferated. whereas, as a result, decision making has spread. autonomy has spread. donald trump is going to find this a far more difficult world to corral than the one of, say, eight years ago. >> thoughts? zanny, your thoughts? >> as always, i agree with richard, almost completely. i actually am a little bit more upbeat about what might happen in the middle east. i think that everyone is going to want to try and give donald trump something. i'm not kind of ruling out the possibility that there may be some kind of cease-fire, you know, just after president trump gets into the office. bibi netanyahu will want to give him something.

everyone wants to be in his good books. then, you know, there will be a great photo-op, the living hostages coming back. it doesn't mean peace in the middle east. don't think he has the willingness to do the hard grasp of what is needed. what is needed, as your reporter made very clear, is a path to a palestinian state. donald trump would need to persuade bibi netanyahu and, indeed, the majority of israelis that will has to be a path to a palestinian state. i don't think that's the kind of thing he focuses on. >> i'm not really sure the trump administration is going to be supportive of the palestinian state. a two-state solution. >> it'll be so interesting to see what happens. we want to get to the maureen dowd piece. we're going to do something a little different. we're going to read the entire piece, but it is worth it. i think a lot of people have already been talking about this. we have a lot of calls about this piece. it's an interesting message for democrats. maureen dowd's piece for "the new york times" entitled "democrats and the case of mistaken identity politics."cry

democrats are waking up and realizing that woke is broke. maureen writes this. "donald trump won a majority of white women and remarkable numbers of black and latino voters and young men. democratic insiders thought people would vote for kamala harris even if they didn't like her, to get rid of trump. but more people ended up voting for trump, even though many didn't like him. because they liked the democratic party less. i've often talked about how my dad stayed up all night on the night harry truman was elected because he was so excited, and my brother stayed up all night the first time trump was elected because he was so excited. and i felt that democrats would never recover that kind of excitement until they could figure out why they had turned off so many working-class voters over the decades, and why they

had developed such disdain toward their once loyal base. democratic candidates have often been avatars of elitism. michael dukakis, al gore, john kerry, hillary clinton, and second-term barack obama. the party embraced a world view of hyperpolitical desengs, and cancellation. it supported diversity statements for job applicants and terminology like latin-x and black indigenous people of color. this alienated half of the country or more. and the chaos and anti-semitism at many college campuses certainly didn't help. when the woke police came at you, rahm emanuel told me, you don't even get your miranda rights read to you. there were a lot of democrats barking, people who don't represent anybody, he said, and

the leadership of the party was intimidated. donald trump played to the irritation of many americans, discussed it as being regarded as insensitive to the way they always talked. at rallies, he called women beautiful, and then he said he'd get in trouble for using that word." >> strong, and i would say beautiful but i'm not allowed to use that term anymore with women. if you say beautiful, it means the end of your career in politics. you're not allowed to say a woman is beautiful, so i will not tell you how beautiful they are, but they are beautiful. but the strong, beautiful, intelligent women, they won. they won. >> continuing with maureen dowd, "one thing that makes democrats great is that they unabashedly support groups that have suffered from inequality. but they have to begin avoiding

extreme policies that alienate many americans who would otherwise be drawn to the party. democrats learned the hard way in this election that mothers care -- and this is a key line in the piece -- that mothers care both about abortion rights and having their daughters compete fairly and safely on the playing field." keep that in mind. >> and keep this in mind, a revealing chart that ran in "the financial times" showed that white progressives -- and this is how it's been for too long -- white progressives hold views far to the left of the minorities they champion. they think at higher rates than hispanic and black americans that, quote, racism is built into our society. get this, many more black and hispanic americans surveyed compared with white progressives responded that, quote, america is the greatest country in the world. >> gobsmacked democrats have

reacted to the wipeout in differentkamala didn't court enough, trans rights and reputing israel. others feel the call on the party to reimagine itself. a vulnerable democrat in a red congressional district in washington narrowly held her seat. the 36-year-old mother of a toddler and owner of an auto shop told "the times," annie karni, that democratic condescension has to go. it'll take people in the trades running for office and being taken seriously. on cnn, the democratic strategist said, democrats did not know how to talk to normal americans. take a look. >> we are not the party of

common sense, which is the message that voters sent to us. for a number of reasons. for a number of reasons we don't know how to speak to voters. when we address latina -- and, listen, language has meaning. when we address latin x, for instance, because it is the political correct thing to do, it makes them think we don't live in the same planet as they do. when we are too afraid to say that, hey, college kids, if you're trashing the campus at columbia university because you're unhappy about some policy and you're taking over a university, and you're trashing it and preventing other students from learning, that that is unacceptable. but we're so worried about alienating one or another cohort in our coalition, that we don't know what to say when normal people look at that and say, wait a second, i send my kids to college to learn, not so they can burn buildings and trash lawns, right? >> maureen dowd continues, "kamala, a democratic lawmaker told me, made the colossal mistake of running a $1 billion campaign with celebrities, like

beyonce, when many of the struggling, working class voters she wanted couldn't even afford a ticket to a beyonce concert, much less a down payment on a home. i don't think the average person said kamala harris gets what i'm going through, this democrat said. kamala, who sprinted to the left in her 2020 democratic primary campaign, tried to move toward the center for this election, making sure to say she would shoot an intruder with her block. but it sounded tinny. the trump campaign's most successful ad showed kamala funding gender-surgery, and she should told to rebut it. james carville said the party had become enamored of identitarianism, because he won't say woke, radiating the

repellant idea that identity is more important than humanity. we could never wash off the stench of it, he said, calling defund the police the three stupidest words in the english language. it's like when you get smoke on your clothes and you have to wash them again and again. now, people are running away from it like the devil runs away from holy water." what do you think? >> we could talk about this for four hours. i'm looking at this, and it's stuff we've talked on this show about. the trans ad, which, of course, we talked about time and again. rick wilson showed an opposing ad. >> yeah. >> 30,000 times on the nfl, they showed kamala harris saying she would support the funding of transitions surgery. >> the law. >> in prison. taxpayers would pay for it. it, of course, was the law at the time during the trump administration. but they refused.

despite bill clinton and everybody saying, you have to respond to this ad. it is impacting black men, hispanic men, white working class men. you need to respond to this ad. they didn't do it. willie said after the election, even his mother said, wait, which is weird. what's up with the democrats? so they didn't respond to that. there's so many other things. we talked about it all last spring. i mean, maybe it makes you feel good when you see people trash college campuses. i know it doesn't. but maybe it makes progressives go, oh, it's like the '60s all over again. americans didn't like the trashing of college campuses in the '60s. that's why richard nixon was elected twice, out of 49 states in 1972. yeah, trashing of college campuses, can't even send your kids to campus safely. defunding the police. 2020, we were talking here, reverend al, let me bring you in here on defunding the police. you and i were talking about how

representatives in the toughest parts of new york city, in real time, were saying, defund the police? no, no. we need more police on the street protecting our children as we walk to school. we need more children in the classroom, you know, in the classrooms, more police officers. safety officers. so or children can go to and from class, so businesses can be safe, so we can live a safe life. it's something, again, you have a great line about wokeness and limousine liberals and everything. i just want to say, this is what we've known since 2017, what you and i have talked about, that white elitists that run the democratic party are far to the left of many black and hispanic voters in the democratic party. i remember a pollster for barack

obama, i think david -- i think his name was david -- forgive me -- came out and had that poll in 2017. he got absolutely hammered on twitter, absolutely hammered by the far left. how dare you say this! you dare you. but he was right. it was true in '17, and it was doubly true in 2024. that these white progressives on the far, far left said, "we're going to save you, black and hispanic people of america." a lot of black and hispanic people of america say, "no thanks. you're kind of wild. you're too far left. we believe in the american dream. we want to be part of the american dream. thanks but no thanks. keep that in your college class s." rev? >> absolutely. the whole goal of the civil rights movement and the movement now is to correct the system, not to overthrow the system.

and to make things work equally for everyone, not just to upturn everything and change everything to some undefined utopia. these latte liberals that speak poor people that they don't speak to, that want to lead people they don't even like, are running around trying to represent things that was never part of what we were saying. all of us that wanted the police reform never said to defund the police. we were trying to get police of color and other circumstances up in these departments to deal with stop and frisk and deal with other things. then when you come and disregard and disrespect common people that are trying to get their kids in college and pay the tuition, student debt loan forgiveness and all, and you're going to disrupt the campus, it was very interesting to see that they were very selective in the calls as they wanted to fight.

the causes on the ground that everyday people had to deal with, they were absent. i texted you on that last week. many people, when they raised the problem, came back to us, and the woke people, i don't know what they were woke from, because we were never asleep. they were the ones up in the ivory tower taking a nap while we were dealing with people on the ground that have everyday problems. >> zanny, it is something that i have been saying on the show for a couple years now. when i'd have dinner with democrats, with democrats, we'd all be sitting there having dinner. i don't know if your experiences are the same. about halfway in, somebody would say, my daughter is at, pick the school, university of virginia. she can't raise her hand and speak in class. if she says the wrong thing, she's immediately canceled. the professors don't back her up. the administrators don't back her up.

if you're at columbia, good luck. if you're at the other elite institutions, good luck. i will say, even when i was at university of alabama, you know, 800 years ago, it was, you know, you say something conservative in class, and you still even in that environment, sometimes you'd get pushback. but professors and the administrators would say, no, no, we want to have a fair and open debate. there are a lot of students and their parents, and, again, i'm talking about democrats, who complained more and more about this over the past four, five, six, seven years. >> absolutely. i mean, i feel this very viscerally and strongly. i spent 20 years living in the united states until 2024. i then went back to england and have been there the last ten years. i've been really struck when i come over, in the last ten years, and i meet my friends. i lived in d.c., so many democrat friends. i didn't think i'd changed, but i found myself having increasing

arguments on cultural issues with people. the whole party, the elite moved to the left in a weird way. the whole issue -- the trans issue, for example, "the economist," loudly, clearly, all along, took a view that was anti-woke, if you will. we were skeptical about medical interventions, very skeptical about men on women's sports and so forth. i got so much uphill for this from people, from elite liberal types. what was "the economist" doing, what was this? what strikes me now, yes, people have realized that elites on the left were way different from where ordinary people are. you know, exactly as you say, lots of people saying, what is happening in our schools? what is happening in our colleges? the question for me now is how does that change? everyone seems to have at last had a wake-up call, but just how does that change? how do the kind of, you know, the elites of this party actually turn things around? it's not obvious to me that that's going to happen fast

enough. i'm struck that even in the last few days, there are people on the cultural left doubling down on the cultural left position. i don't know. it's your country, not my country, but when you live in london, you sometimes come to the u.s. and think, what on earth is going on here? this place has culturally gone off the reservation on the left. >> so isolated, too. i said on this show before we heard a whole lot. i'm sure "the economist" was writing about this. we were very critical about a man who was a swimmer in the ivy league who transitioned and swam against women. suddenly, he went from, like, 386th best swimmer to -- against men to like the first against women. i remember saying something about it at the time, and people going, oh, my god, how dare you say that. why, you're a radical extremist. i said, actually, there's a poll that shows 85% of americans agree with me. it's so fascinating, zanny.

so fascinating that all these people who have been championing women all of these years sort of abandoned girls who had been waking up and their parents have been driving them to go swimming or running track and field from the time they were 5 years old at 5:00 in the morning on saturdays and sundays and, suddenly, they abandon them and won't say a word because they're afraid they're going to be canceled. it's insanity. >> i think that fear of being canceled was what drove it. i mean, there was a sense amongst many, many in the sort of liberal elites, i guess you're all part of it here, to be worried about saying anything for fear of being excommunicated, for fear of being canceled. so people would go along with things they knew were nuts. latin-x, what on earth is latin-x? as you said on the show, no latino person uses the word latin-x, but people spouted this because they felt they had to.

their de&i officer told them they had to. don't get me wrong, there are important civil rights issues that need to be dealt with in this country. i'm not saying there is nothing to be done, there is nothing that anything needs at all, that the u.s. is completely perfect, but i do think it went completely over the board. this is the result. >> it actually did. again, you look at surveys. for white elitists who write books about white fragility and talk about how horrible the united states of america is, you look at the surveys, and it shows that more black americans and hispanic americans believe in the more than dream than those people spouting those extreme positions. yeah, we say every day, we have a long way to go to be a more perfect union, but being an extremist and setting one party up to lose year after year, every four years, that's no way to do it.

zanny minton beddoes, thank you very much. appreciate it. coming up, paul finebaum and pablo torre, have they ever been canceled? >> i hope not. >> i don't know. just look at them. >> not here. >> paul says he has. they join us with their takeaways from this sunday, as well as projection for this week's college football playoff rankings. "morning joe" will be right back.

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touchdown, san francisco. >> third and long. wilson floats it way upstairs. williams, he's got it! touchdown! >> eagles out of time-outs. >> no sacks for hurts. everything in the middle of the field or outside. >> able to shake off the pressure. fires to the end zone. it's caught by dallas goddard. >> third down, carr steps up, looking long, heaves one, touchdown. >> murray wanted the read option. murray center stepping, in, touchdown! >> 35 yard field goal. the snap, the hold, lutz the kick to win it. oh! blocked! the chiefs have won! the chiefs have won! >> good lord. those are some of the biggest plays across the nfl yesterday.

the kansas city chiefs blocking the broncos' game-winning field goal attempt to keep their undefeated season alive. the host of "pablo torre finds out" on meadow lark media, pablo torre. also, espn commentator, paul finebaum. pablo, high and low. we start with high. >> yeah. >> as you always told me when i was a little boy growing up, you would say, little joe, little joe, the mark of a champion is when great teams play badly and they still win. well, we've got two supreme candidates for that. the lions, five interceptions by goff. they still win. the lions win. then, of course, the chiefs, who just don't look that spectacular this year, but they keep on winning. talk about it. >> this was our super bowl pick as a show. i believe we mostly had the chiefs and lions in the super bowl. >> yup. >> yesterday was the case study in why. jared goff, five picks, okay? the third guy in the last 30 years to win a game despite

throwing five picks. they do it, of course, by nailing two 50 yard plus field goals, against a team in the texans that looked like they had this the vast majority of the night. of course, they storm back. the defense and special teams joe, and i'll keep on echoing, doing a call and response with you like i'm reverend al about defensive special teams. chiefs and the broncos. look, this is one of the things where you have to shake your fist at the sky if you are anybody who doesn't root for the chiefs. if you are anybody by kansas city, you wonder to yourself, what do they do to deserve god's favor in this way? this is a 35 yard field goal. that's a gimme in the modern nfl. of course, special teams and defense, they blocked the kick. they win, rename undefeated. you're like, this is probably how it'll go, potentially for the rest of your life, is how it feels. >> let's talk -- by the way, we talk about so many things about the lions, but how about

montgomery and gibbs? such great running backs. it's a one-two punch. man, they get you coming and going. it's something. chiefs, again, just not looking impressive. >> villville villainious is wha they do. >> i'm a blinders fan. when it's time to go, they pull up the stakes, roll up their stuff, put it in the back of the wagon, and they go. i feel like dallas and the new york jets should do a peeky blinders, just pull up the tents, roll up their sleeping bags, throw it in the back of the vans, and just head on down the river. those seasons are gone. i just -- answer this question for me, why is dallas, why are the jets so colossally bad?

>> i'll throw in the new york giants here, as well, joe. richard haass, it's funny what happens when you do this show as often as i do. you watch the giants get exported to europe, speaking of peeky blinders, and you think of richard haass. you are three teams that are delusional about what they are. they don't know themselves. they don't know their strengths or their weaknesses. when you talk about the cowboys, for instance, it's more than just, okay, dak prescott is out for the season. it's also the fact that they've built a stadium with a giant hole in it. again, not to be theological with you today, because as it was once said, god can watch the cowboys. i don't think they're feeling like god is shining upon them. what happens here, look at the sun, okay? he's trying to throw a touchdown to the end zone. ceedee lamb said, the sun was in my face. jerry jones says, what, want to redo the stadium? maybe put a curtain up maybe. that's the dallas cowboys and

their delusion, okay? then you go to the new york jets and say, aaron rodgers, give him all the power in the world. let him staff the entire organization. they have had as embarrassing a season as you can have while still hoping you're good. the giants, i don't know if i need to belabor the point, but you're paying $40 million to daniel jones at your quarterback position. that dude, that dude, he needs to not have his job anymore, i think is the way i'd put that. it's real bad. it's bad on every intercontinental level. >> richard, willie and i, i was joking on friday's show, this is the sign of the new frostier relations that the trump-era united states will have with europe. we sent them panthers and giants as an nfl game. daniel jones, this feels like it's rock bottom. the fans have wanted him gone a while. they were stuck because of the contract. they couldn't move on. where does this team go from here? is this a clean house moment, not just the qb but maybe coach and gm, too? >> daniel jones has to be sad.

it was interesting. i spent years watching football games. i've rarely seen announcers so critical of a quarterback. they'd show plays where you'd have one or two wide open receivers, and the only problem was daniel jones didn't throw them the ball. if he did, it'd be 2, 3 feet behind them, and they'd be picked off, twice in the red zone. this is a failed experiment. they have to sit him. if he gets injured playing the rest of the season, on top of the $40 million the giants have to pay him, it is another $12 million or $14 million they'd have to pay him. you know, they don't have a good backup. they got rid of their decent backup. >> tommy cutlets isn't doing it for you? >> you have to draft a quarterback. this year's quarterback crop is not as good as last year's. i fear that the giants are on a trajectory where we're going to be having the rebuilding conversation for many more years. >> milroe might be playing next season. paul finebaum on that note,

alabama not having the best season but they showed up saturday night in a big way. >> yeah, we unfortunately wrote kalen deboer off after the tennessee game, joe, but you know what he started to do? he actually cursed once or twice against missouri and against -- during thelsu game, and he's becoming an alabama coach. that was as meaningful of a performance as i've seen by alabama in a while. why it was so important, the loser of the alabama/lsu game was kaput, finished from the playoff. alabama had a masterful performance. on the other side, it was down right disgraceful for james carville's team. maybe he'll come back to college football now and leave politics alone for a few days. >> not to get too deep in the weeds, but they had no offensive game plan. it was third and 11, third and 12, and you'd have jalen go back

and get sacked because they bring eight people in. like, this week, they actually started doing radical things. you put eight in the box. we're going to dump the ball off to a running ball. what a fascinating idea. we're going to quick in route to a tight end. we'll let jalen run. amazing thing happens. any jv football high school coach could tell you. they move the ball around, which alabama hasn't been doing. you can hand the ball off to the running back, and miller can get four, five, six, seven, eight yards in one downhill. it is like they just discovered the forward pass. what a huge difference it made. >> i mean, he's, if not one of, the best dual threat quarterback in the country. joe, we're one day away from the second reveal of the college

football playoff. we thought at one point in time, maybe the big ten, maybe the s.e.c. would put four schools in. there is a scenario, not to get too convoluted here, where you could literally have an eight-way tie for the southeastern conference. eight teams could finish with the same 6-2 record. the tie-breaker would go on, but it's been a remarkable year. alabama's comeback is one of the great stories because they were literally dead after the tennessee game. now, they have a straight path to a 10-2 season. they probably won't go to the s.e.c. game, but you may not want to go to the s.e.c. game, as long as you grab a playoff berth. >> play the first round against byu, another funny story from the weekend, and you win. paul, finally, let's quickly talk about ole miss and georgia. of course, you and i disagreed

before. i always wanted lane kiffin, the best offensive mind in college football. but, man, could you believe how much ole miss dominated georgia? >> it was a master class. lane kiffin severely outcoaching kirby smart, the best coach in college football. lane kiffin has arrived. he was always the coach, joe, who we said, he's really good. he's funny. he is a master. saban said he was the best offensive play caller he's ever been around. he just put up his performance on saturday, best of his career. he's now one of the elite coaches in college football. he was not even called for the alabama job, just for the record. >> idiotic. >> for whatever season, they didn't want him around. he would have taken it, i can confirm. but he now is one of the hottest coaches in the country after what we saw saturday. a remarkable turnaround for a

guy that literally was out on his back about 11 years ago when southern cal fired him on the tarmac after a loss in arizona. >> exactly. pablo, write this down. i said alabama should have hired. we can go back to saban. i said alabama should have hired lane kiffin but weren't going to for cultural reasons. pablo, we'll get you back. we'll start this new thing. ready for this? >> what's going on? >> instead of pop culture, it's going to be pab culture. >> wow, hold on. >> whoa. >> let me rename my podcast real quick. hold on, that's better. that's better. [ laughter ] look at him. >> done. >> it'll sort of be like a latter day -- >> this day on "morning joe." >> -- scarborough's holly-weird. >> you said we weren't getting in the weeds. i'm smelling a little bit of weeds right now, just the vibe. the vibe this morning.

>> i wouldn't know what that smells like. >> never, never. >> paul finebaum, thank you, as always. we listen to your show this afternoon and every afternoon. also, host of "pablo torre finds out," pab culture. this is the future. >> that was good, joe. >> the future of "morning joe." ahead, how democratic governors see themselves as the guardians at the gate of donald trump's immigration policy. we'll explain when donald trump comes back in 90 seconds. democr

how to rig an election. but don't you guys worry. if i know democrats, they're going to take a long look in the mirror, learn from their mistakes, and then run biden again in 2028. during trump's victory speech, he promised that this will truly be the golden age of america. you know, because things turn golden when the sun is setting on them. president biden and president-elect trump will meet in the oval office next week, where biden will finally finish

a sentence he started at the debate. >> aw. all right. welcome back to "morning joe." joining the conversation this hour, we have the host of the podcast "on brand with donny deutsch," donny deutsch. editor of "the new republic," michael tomasky. jonathan lemire and reverend al are still here. >> we had a lot of focus on the extreme positions that a small portion in the washington party took. you've been talking about this for a long time. maureen talked about it for a long time. reverend al talked about it for a long time. i'm curious, what are your thoughts as we get almost a week beyond the election? >> look, friday, i posted something on my instagram saying exactly the same thing. this is very, very clear. democrats need to step away from woke. these things do not matter to people. you went through each one of the issues. this is not where america is.

america cares about their prices. they care about immigration. they don't care about a trans athlete, you know, playing in a sport or not playing in a sport. they don't want to hear defund the police. they don't want to sit back and watch people on campus start to say from the river to the sea and people not speak up about it. they care about their own lives. democrats need to be center crats. a new party needs to emerge. >> donny saying maureen dowd stole this from him. >> lifted it word for word. >> from the instagram post. >> no, it's -- maureen nailed it. >> she did. >> this isn't even a discussion anymore. it is simple stuff. >> yeah. i want to talk more, though, as we -- and we have time, but i think it's not that we as democrats, and i'm a democrat, don't care about these issues, but it is what is in the realm of realistic in a campaign at this point in time.

think they were out of step on a number of issues and didn't sort of respond, quite frankly, to republican attacks. again, what you were mentioning for weeks, which was the ad about trans surgeries for prisoners, which had a very robust and legitimate and credible and truthful response to it, and democrats didn't take the opportunity. >> response was, this was the policy. >> it is different than not caring about people who happen to be trans. >> let me rephrase. >> it was -- >> hold on a second. this was a policy during the trump administration. they could have said, wait a second, she said this at a foru >> the reason why bill clinton and so many of them called them up and said, you need to respond to this ad because it is moving black men, hispanic men, and white working class men, radio silence from the campaign. because they didn't want to touch it.

because it would be anti-woke. they didn't want to touch it. >> simple response, that policy came into effect under trump. to that, it'd be implied, you know, this is not something that was we are standing by. they wouldn't do it, afraid of the backlash. once again, we're all for inclusiity and all for every human being being represented, but there are things that are appropriate to be part of your platform in a campaign to win a popular vote. it's that simple. >> yeah. >> rev, let's go back again. >> this is what we've been talking about. >> you've been saying this repeatedly. it's pretty hard for people on the far left, white people on the far left to say, oh, you're taking these positions because you're racist or because you're hateful, this, that, or the other. again, as maureen said in her piece and as polls have shown since 2016, white progressives are far to the left of even black and hispanic voters when

it comes to racial injustice and racial prejudice. >> yeah. >> more black and hispanic people believe in the american dream than white progressives who say they can't get there because there's systematic racism. >> i think that the problem is that we have people that define themselves as woke. progressives in terms of black and latino communities define it much differently and do not want to have the arrogance of these elitists tell us what we're fighting for. i mean, you really have these people -- i rarely find myself agreeing with maureen dowd, but you have these people telling us what we want. we were not fighting to get better slave masters. we were fighting for freedom. we don't take orders from them. we know what we want, and we know what is in the boundaries of which we want to do and what we want to do for our families. they say disregard that.

this is the line you have to take. i think a lot of us resent that. >> michael, you -- you read michael's piece. >> i've been following a lot of the different aspects of what happened here. i think a major part of it, and as we talk about the democrats, i sometimes feel like we overtalk about that and then it leaves us other reasons why this election was lost by the democrats. that would be disinformation. michael, you are writing about, you know, why doesn't anyone talk about the real reason trump won, and you're talking about right-wing media in part. can you explain? >> sure. look, there were immediate reasons that had to do with inflation and the economy and so worth. what i was trying to draw readers' attention to with this column is a longer historical problem that i've watched develop over the last 30 years. which is the growth, tremendous growth in size and influence of

the right-wing media in this country. media, usually in shorthand, we say "the media this and media that," as if it is one thing. in this country, we have two medias. i think it is very important for people to understand this. there is a mainstream media, which is the networks and "the new york times" and so forth, and then there is a right-wing media. when we think of right-wing media, we think first of fox news. it is much larger and vaster than that. there are other cable networks. there's talk radio, right-wing talk radio, which is everywhere across this country. there is right-wing christian radio. right-wing networks have bought up local television, local radio, some local newspapers. then there is this whole world of social media and podcasters that is just absolutely vast. add it all up, it is tremendously influential. it really does, more than the mainstream media these days, i think, mika, set the terms of our political conversation. >> and do you think that -- are

we also talking about disinformation or just a lean to the right in terms of how they -- the point of view that is presented? >> sure, there's both. you know, another thing that gives this right-wing media network such power is it speaks with one voice. that voice says to regular people that the democrats hate you and the democrats want to turn your son into your daughter, and donald trump is your last line of defense against this madness. now, to go back to identity politics, i just want to speak to that really quickly. i've been writing about that since the mid 1990s. it is a political problem for the democrats. now, you know, i see, to be honest, i see trouble coming for transgender americans. probably particularly transgender people in the military. i think the democrats need to stand up for those americans. and i think most americans aren't bigoted and don't want to

see people be treated the way i fear they might be treated. having said that, at election time, democrats and these interest groups need to be smarter about the way they talk about these things. you know, you can't -- you just shouldn't ask people to tick off, you know, publicly every item on your litmus test list, you know, and make them do that. >> two things can be true at once. democratic party can protect the rights of people that others may want to stamp on. at the same time, they have to have reasonable, rational policy positions that do two things at once. the issue of transgender sports, overwhelming majority of americans, as i said last hour, don't want men who transition after puberty competing against young girls and young women. 85% of americans agree with that. but as spencer cox, the republican governor of utah said after they vetoed a bill, he was

like, come on, guys, we have three transgender athletes in the state of utah. i think we can figure this out. so we don't punish these three students. yeah, we all agree there. i do want to ask this question, and i found your piece fascinating. we do look at the misinformation all of the time, the disinformation that's coming from a lot of these sources, just deliberate disinformation that's coming from the sources. that said, that doesn't explain black voters not coming out in detroit, black voters not coming out in milwaukee, black voters not coming out in philadelphia in the numbers they came out in back in 2020. reverend al had told us earlier, about a month earlier, that he went to detroit, and there just wasn't the interest there among a lot of black voters.

they were not excited about this campaign. they were not excited about voting. he saw trouble coming a month ahead of time. so that's not because they've been watching newsmax and are upset, right? >> no, it's not. it's not. i would still say, joe, that, you know, look, people go to the grocery store and they experience what they experience. the basket of groceries that used to be $80 is $115. i experience that myself. i'm not a rich guy, you know. i see it. i go to the grocery store. all that is true. at the same time, i think our debate about the economy is set in large part by this right-wing media. you know, they pick the facts that will support their interpretation of the world. you just watch, come noon on january 20th, these outlets, they're going to start picking the great facts about the economy. within about two weeks, we're

going to have a booming trump economy, according to them. >> yes, exactly. >> yeah. >> exactly. it's going to be turned around, and i'm sure on the other side, there will be people talking about the great depression that is coming from the far left. i mean, our economy is the envy of the world. there are people, though, right now who are struggling with housing prices. as we said on friday, with gas and grocery prices. that is a really big issue. >> ask kamala harris that, too. she didn't not debate on these issues. >> no, no, exactly. >> she was putting a plan for first-time homeowners out there. we need to be careful not to sort of over edit on what happened. >> i want to be clear here. michael, and i'll invite everybody else, really quickly, we need to go to break, but it is really important for me at least personally to say this. there's always monday morning quarterbacking. >> so easy. >> if a candidate wins by one,

then their landslide, you know, johnson. lose by one, they're the biggest loser of all time. i'll be very clear, kamala harris, i thought, came in, she hit her marks. >> everything. >> she did really well with her launch, had those great rallies. she did great in the debate. so well that donald trump didn't want to debate her a second time. she did a lot of things right. now, mika and i have been having this debate over the weekend. mika thinks that joe biden may have done better. i don't think so. i think that this was a democratic party problem, and whoever was in that slot was going to have problems over peace, prosperprosperity, and, will say it, with wokeness and the extreme stuff from the far left. so, michael, i just wanted to get that out because we keep talking about this. usually, a candidate is blamed, but my feeling is kamala hit all

her marks, short campaign. she did what she could do. there were just underlying problems she couldn't get past any more than joe biden could have gotten past. >> i think swing voters just wanted to punish the party of inflation. it's really kind of that simple. the other issues you're talking about factored in, but i think that was far and away the main one. i think she campaign, in many ways a very good campaign. i was wrong. it looked to me at the end like she had momentum and she had the feel of a winner. you know, he was being strange in public appearances, but it didn't end of mattering. i do think in focus groups, voters can't ask the question, what do democrats stand for economically, and they can't really answer it, that's an issue. >> that's an issue. >> editor of "the new republic," michael tomasky, thank you so

much. >> come back and we'll talk about the beatles. thank you so much. so much didn't matter. crowd sizes do not matter. i tell this story in 2012 about how we got a call from mitt romney's campaign in pennsylvania. joe, listen to the crowd. we got 35,000. we're going to win. they didn't. same thing here. crowd sizes didn't matter. endorsements, i've always said endorsements don't matter. that certainly was proven to be the case here. so many things just don't matter. but about joe biden, you think he could have done better? >> i don't -- i do. i think that there is a chance he could have. i think the biggest issue was that democrats found themselves in a place where they had to separate themselves from the joe biden presidency. he was proud of his presidency. he had a lot to say about what he'd done and where it was going. the democrats were adopting the far-right's, oh, joe biden's presidency was the worst presidency ever. i don't know how that happened.

i don't know how the most accomplished presidency in modern presidential history can be all of a sudden turned into, you know, the worst presidency ever. i think that was a problem. i think that all of the things he accomplished were leading this nation in the right direction, and more needed to be done. if he was able to continue with that, things might have been different. but, you know, i already had said that long ago. >> you know -- >> i think kamala ran a freaking incredible campaign and did everything she could. >> i think, though, the thing is, yes, he passed more bipartisan legislation than anybody. >> coming out of covid. coming out of trump. >> coming out of covid. our economy, despite the fact that there are people still suffering, the envy of the world, strongest that it has been relative to the rest of the world. >> rebuilt nato. >> since 1945. >> expanded it. sorry, having fun. >> nato and our alliances in

europe, stronger than ever. you talk to foreign policy leaders, of course, in asia. they will tell you, the united states has built a stronger defense around china, against china aggression than they've had in ages. there are a lot of really positive things. the biggest problem was he couldn't articulate his defense effectively enough. we saw that in the debate, and that got in the way. ahead on "morning joe," dozens arrested in amsterdam following a week of hellacious, violent attacks on jews. on jews. it's happening in europe again, as it happens time and time again in europe. we're going to be joined by israel's special envoy for combating anti-semitism to get his word on what can be done and whether the government -- or get her word on what can be done and if the governments there are doing enough. that's next on "morning joe." we'll be right back. ,

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♪♪ 33 past the hour. time now for a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning. there are signs that both king charles iii and the princess of wales are resuming more official duties after both were sidelined by cancer. the 75-year-old king led the nation on sunday in a two-minute silence in remembrance of fallen service personnel. prince william left a tribute,

while kate watched on from a balcony. it's the first time since the start of the year that kate carried out two consecutive days of public engagement, official engagements. the incoming mayor of san francisco is promising to expand police staffing, build more homeless shelter beds, and shut down open air drug markets. daniel lurie, an heir to the levi strauss fortune, never served in government and spent $9 million of his own money on his first-time campaign. the city struggled with the influx of fentanyl and the loss of downtown businesses in the wake of the pandemic. and president biden and vice president harris will make their first public appearance together since last week's election at a veterans' day ceremony this morning at arlington national cemetery. they are set to participate in a wreath laying a the tomb of the unknown soldier to recognize america's armed forces during

both peacetime and war. msnbc will have live coverage of that event. israel is issuing new warnings to its citizens this morning following last week's attack on soccer fans in amsterdam. israelis being told to avoid major sporting events in cities across europe, including national soccer team's match in paris this week. nbc news international correspondent raf sanchez has the latest. >> reporter: this morning, israel issuing new warnings to its citizens following last week's attack on soccer fans in amsterdam. israelis told to avoid major sporting events in cities across europe. including the national soccer team's match in paris on thursday. the government warning a planned attack. president biden and other world leaders condemning the violence in amsterdam as a widespread, anti-semitic result, with crowds

surrounding and beating israelis. the footage allegedly shows israeli fans attacking people. and chanting anti-arab slurs before the game. meanwhile, after a year of failed cease-fire negotiations in gaza, qatar says it's withdrawing as a mediator until israel and hamas show seriousness about reaching a deal. >> today is not israel that is standing in the way of a cease fire and hostage deal, it is hamas. >> reporter: a new u.n. report on the war shows 70% of those killed in gaza were women and children. israel rejecting the report's methodology, but acknowledges it's killed around 20,000 civilians, along with a similar number of palestinian fighters who they say hide among the civilian population. our team on the scene of this israeli strike on a tent camp in the court yard of a hospital. three people were killed,

witnesses say. mohamed fled with her family from northern gaza. "where do we go?" she asks. no schools or hospitals are safe. >> joining us now, special envoy for combating anti-semitism, and we appreciate your coming on this morning. the soccer event and others, but that especially, what do you worry events like this, attacks like this tell us about growing anti-semitism across the globe? >> while the pictures are shocking, they should not surprise us anymore. what we saw in amsterdam, what we witnessed there, in a premedicated attack we know was planned in advance of the arrival of thousands of israelis

who were hunted down, chased down, told to stay in their rooms for the duration of the stay on the ground is actually a part of what we have seen as a tsunami of anti-semitism in the wake of the october 7th, 2023, massacre in the state of israel, and the raging multi-front war that has been targeting israelis since and unfolding, as you know, in our region. what i want to say is that it is the mainstreaming of anti-semitism, when we mark 86 years to the massacre. the question is what happens after that moment, the warning if you will. the same anti-semitism that fueled the crimes against humanity perpetrated over a year ago, unleashed the genie out of

the bottle, if you will, and mainstreams the anti-semitism. the attacks in amsterdam is one manifestation. we'd be remiss to see it as a single event. we have to be widening the lens, seeing at the couture restaurant in washington. actually, the windows smashed. the ultra orthodox family, a protest in chicago, outside of the university, calling for the murder of jews. so on and so on. toronto, sydney, australia. that is what we saw this tsunami of antisemitim. we've seen the rise of attacks on jews, zionists, or anyone who supports the state of israel over the past year. >> you laid out this rise of anti-semitism across the globe. not isolated, this incident in amsterdam. tell us your concerns that it

may only grow. we have seen far-right governments, political parties on the rise throughout europe. here in the united states, the election of donald trump. when he was in office for the first time, those four years, hate crimes, including anti-semitism, also rose. >> whether it comes from the extreme right, the radical left or extremism, there is one definition, it is the result of the international holocaust remembrance alliance definition, that enables to identify and combat all strains of what is an ever-mutaing virus. you know, the hate that begins with the jews never ends with the jews. hate that begins with jews just predicts what it is that threatens the freedom and the dignity and the liberty in all of the spaces and spaces in which we live. the international holocaust remembrance alliance definition

includes 11 examples and any strategy, whether it is university or a national strategy in europe, in the united states, or anywhere else in the world, that aims to identify and combat all strains of anti-semitism, no matter where it comes from. as i said, the extreme right, the radical left, the radical islamists, needs to be utilizing this definition. that includes the demonization and the delegitimization and the double standards, whether of the individual jew, barring them from an equal place in society, or from the jewish nation state that is the state of israel. barring it from an equal place in the family of nations. without utilizing that definition that includes this new strain of an ever-mutaing virus that is anti-zionism, that target, ironically, non-jews who need to be self-defined or identified as zionists believing in israel's right to exist, without utili that definition, we will not be able

to succeed in identifying and combating all strains of this lethal hatred. >> donny, we've had occasion all too often to speak about this subject since october 7th. your thoughts seeing this today? >> two words that -- sorry. there are two words that haven't been mentioned yet. jew hunt. this was organized by taxi drivers and people. this was a program. this was basically, let's go hunt jews. they hit them with bricks on their head. it was violent. they kicked them. this is a straight line back to what happens on our college campuses when it is not dealt with here. when you have people saying, "from the river to the sea," and "hamas is great," this is a global world. small world. everybody is on social media. this needs to be dealt with across the country. also, there always tends to still be when it comes to jew hatred, kind of like a "but" or a "not really walking into it." "the new york times" headline was violence tied to soccer game

prompts dozens of arrest in amsterdam. it was not tied to the soccer game. it was tied to the going after and the targeting of jews. >> right. >> you can say that, media. there's no buts or gray areas here. the final thing i want to say is, you know, and i think to michel's point, this is a global problem, not just a jewish problem. it is part of jihadism. they want western civilization. this is something that has to be dealt with head on. >> all right. israel's special envoy for combating anti-semitism, michel, thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. we really appreciate it. thank you. >> thank you very much for having me on. if i could just add one word to what donny just said, it is very important. in amsterdam, those were not pro-palestinian protesters. those were pro-hamas, pro-terror, pro-jihadi protesters. the reason we know that is when there are hours and hours of

footage, of palestinians being beaten by hamas, a genocidal organization, we will not see them on the streets calling to free gaza from hamas or from the murderous islamist regime. that's why donny's point is so very important. it threatens all democratic spaces and places, as well. >> all right. thank you very much for that. up next, actor daniel dae kim joins us live to discuss his broadway play which takes on a controversial casting decision made in one tony award-winning musical back in 1991. we'll explain all that, next on "morning joe." o hit the over... or up here trying to hit the under. whew! or, hitting that win with your crew. ohhh! yes, see defense! or way up here with a same game parlay. yaw! betmgm's got your back. get your welcome offer. and play with the sportsbook born in vegas.

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protests so -- >> those are the scenes from the broadway play "yellowface," which was inspired by real events. in this thoughtful comedy, play write portrayed by daniel dae kim finds himself is a racial casting scandal after the controversial casting of a nonasian actor. let's bring in the star of the show, daniel dae kim. i think i tried to explain the plot here. it's gotten such great reviews, inspired by real events. maybe it's best if you explain the story of this production. >> sure. it starts with a real life event. that is the casting of a white actor the play an asian role in the broadway show "miss saigon"

in the '90s. the play write led the charge for that casting and lost that battle. this tells the story of the play he wrote in response to that casting controversy where he was intending to hire an asian male lead, but mistakenly hired a white person to play that asian male. he made the same mistake he was protesting. that is where the play starts. >> interesting. >> it grows from there and becomes more of a referendum on the american dream, about family, about hope, about aspirations on who we can be as a society. >> the play was first produced in 2007. you were coming out of an election where identity politics was front and centered. tell us about this renewed time today. >> it's more relevant than it was when it was first produced

in 2007. these issues about asian americans being blamed for things that happened in asian not only happened during the coronavirus era, but today. we have business leaders and people who are chinese american being blamed for things going on 5,000 miles away. it's still timely. what i think is really important about the show is it's not a history lesson. it's not a school classroom lesson. it's a comedy. the playwrite employs this technique where he makes fun of himself. when it comes to these types of politics, we all have something to learn. no one is 100% right. no one is 100% wrong. people are trying to grow, learn and figure out how we all live together. that's what this play is about. >> daniel, does it also have an

underlying -- dealing with an underlying problem where at one level you deal with the exclusion of asians, jews, blacks and gays excluded from opportunity, but at the same time you don't want to play into those who want to do things like a certain role that your play talks about that may not fit the identity of the role you're playing? how do you balance it? i think there's been that problem across many of our boards in civil rights. how do you not discriminate, but break down the institutional discrimination? >> it's such a great question. it's not an easy fix, right? it requires nuance. it requires a lot of thought. black face has been a part of our history since the country's inception. yellow face is the same. this play attempts to look at it

in a more nuanced way and not just this is wrong and this is right. it talks about the humanity and the attempt to do the right thing. we can make mistakes trying to do the right things. there's a difference between those people trying to about with malicious intent an those who are trying to learn, but making mistakes along the way. >> as an artist, this is what you wait for. not only a great piece of work, but something that has moral imperatives. you don't always get that. this is something you live for i assume. >> that's one of the things that attracted me to the play. the themes are really relevant and important. at the same time my first job is to entertain. you know, right now we could use a diversion as well. it's nice to come into the theater and laugh and forget about some of the things going on in the outside world, but also have your perspective changed a little bit to have you

think a little bit differently about what's going on in our country today. >> "yellow face" is playing at the todd ames theater in new york city. daniel dae kim, thank you very much. congratulations on this. great to have you on the show this morning. coming up on "morning joe" a look at how donald trump's transition is already taking place and how the process of picking key cabinet roles could play out. plus, ezra klein says avoiding a red wave in 2022 gave democrats a false sense of confidence. the democratic blind spot that wrecked 2024. that's ahead on "morning joe." 204 that's ahead on "morning joe." with original medicare you're covered for hospital stays and doctor office visits, but you'll have to pay a deductible for each. a medicare

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>> nothing to protect the people brave enough to speak out against him. >> that is why we at "snl" would like to say to donald trump, we have been with you all along. >> we have never wavered in our support of you.

even when others doubted you. >> every single person on this stage believed in you. >> every single person on this stage voted for you. >> because we see ourselves in you. we look at you and think, that's me. >> that's the man i want my future children to look up to. >> mr. trump, your honor, we know that you say thing that is are controversial sometimes, but really you're just speaking the truth. i hate how the lame stream media, michael chai, tried to spin it to make you look foolish. >> so if you're keeping some sort of list of your enemies -- >> then we should not be on that list. >> it's c-h-e. good morning, well to

"morning joe." it's monday, november 11th, veteran's day. >> with us is jonathan lemire. the president of the national action network and host of "politics nation," reverend al sharpton. we're learning much more about donald trump's transition efforts. "the wall street journal" reports that trump's team has put together digital presentations for the president elect that feature head shots of people for key cabinet positions. people familiar with the process tell the paper that aides are reviewing candidates' television interviews to gauge whether they're adept at selling trump's agenda. the efforts reflect the priorities of incoming commander in chief who expects his cabinet secretaries look the part and keep track of what allies and

adversaries say about him on cable news. the digital presentations on a screen instead of books feature details of resumes and are intended to give the president-elect an easy way to pour over his options, the people said. trump, his advisers, relish the process of picking his staff and the attention it brings. and for some of the picks taking shape, president-elect trump announced tom homan, who backed his zero tolerance policy, will be the border czar. in a post on truth social trump wrote he will control the southern and northern borders, all maritime and aviation security. trump added border czar homan will be in charge of the deportation of illegal

immigrants. homan touts hard line immigration views and previously vowed to run the biggest deportation force this country has ever seen. >> so zandy, this will be a big part of what donald trump likely does in the beginning. he promised mass deportations, historic deportations. the american people heard it every day for about a year and a half and voted for it. this is going to be one of the first things -- i would guess one of the great challenges would be politically for this possible director to avoid the sort of chaos we saw at the beginning of his first term where those first three, four days were pictures of airports and other places just absolutely jammed with people, with protests, with chaos. >> yeah, i think you're absolutely right. this is clearly a top priority.

president-elect trump will want to make a big show very early on of people being deported. for me the question is not will that happen. it definitely will. the question is whether they're serious of trying to deport millions of people. you have to create a huge infrastructure. whether or not you have to use the military, it would be months and months of absolute focus. one thing i realized in the last few days talking to a lot of people about how this administration will set its priorities is that will come at a price. if you focus overwhelmingly on the border, it takes bandwidth. i'm expecting a very big show on this. a lot of stuff at the very beginning. the real question is are they serious about the millions and millions of people. >> you're so right. the bandwidth to do this, the way he said he was going to do this, will take up a lot of attention for the first two or

three months. whoever is going to be running that agency will have to deal with the situation -- the huge logistical challenges of it and, of course, there will be a lot of reporting on it. if it's chaotic like it was the last time, then it gets the administration off on a bad foot. >> president-elect trump announced the name of two former cabinet members not rejoining him at the white house. trump posted that he would not invite former ambassador to the united nations nikki haley or former secretary of state mike pompeo to join his new administration. both pompeo and haley fell out of favor with the former president, but endorsed his presidential run. i wonder what that portends. >> jonathan lemire, loyalty will be at the top of donald trump's

priorities. you have these two being critical of donald trump. as we said all along, this next administration he's not going to hire a lot of people and wonder how it shakes out. he's looking at what they said, how they've appeared on tv, whether they'll embarrass him out there. he's lining this up differently than he did in 2016. >> in 2016 he was willing to let the establishment figures make suggestions. that's why he had grown ups in the room, like james mattis. this time it's just going to be loyalists. we'll talk about his push for recess appointments to fill out the federal government with loyalists who will do what he wants. deportations, that's going to be the signature move early on, there's that was promised. to the point earlier, just a massive undertaking that's going to be met with resistance. some democratic governors like

massachusetts governors maura healey said they won't allow their national guard to be part of this. millions of people living in america are going to be taken out of the country, the disruption to the economy. there will be business leaders speaking out. there are some that could be chaos. there are some that think the chaos could dissuade trump from going through it. let's talk about these figures not part of the trump administration. no surprise on nikki haley. she ran against trump. the two never spoke during the campaign. mike pompeo, yes, he was briefly critical of trump at a cpac appearance, but was a pretty loyal and productive member of his administration. what does it tell you that mike pompeo and someone with his world view isn't going to be part of the administration? >> i think it's a very important sign. for most of the campaign, a

shorthand way of asking -- the rest of the world asking what this administration would be like was to say would it be a j.d. vance administration or mike pompeo foreign policy. this public humiliation of secretary pompeo -- how often do you issue a statement say you're not going to hire people? this was done clearly to make a point. the point was this reagan strong foreign policy approach is not coming. i last saw secretary pompeo in kiev and he was very, very clear that he said it was important that the good guys are seen to win and that view that it was important for american interests and american strength that ukraine be seen to win was very much one side of the debate. i think that side looks like it lost. if i were in kyiv, i would be worried. it looks as though it's very much the kind of let putin have more of what he wants, push ukraine to be demilitarized.

it's going to be harder to persuade donald trump to get ukraine into nato. it's a bad sign if you're ukraine. >> let me ask you about the "washington post" article. i'm curious what your sours have been telling you overnight. "the washington post" ran a story that donald trump speak with vladimir putin over the weekend and said, don't expand the war. russia is pushing back on that, maybe because russia doesn't like how the story was framed. i don't think the "washington post" is backing off their reporting. do you have any reporting on that? if that is what he said, how significant would that be? >> i would definitely trust the "washington post" over the russian statements. i'm not too concerned about that reporting. i think it's not at all surprising. what i think is interesting is in a i do think president trump is going to want to try to avoid a view that ukraine is completely defeated.

what he's got to try to figure out -- he promised to end the war in a day. that's clearly not going to happen. he's going to try to orchestrate a deal where ukraine will lose the territory the russians have. everybody knows that. the question is what kind of security guarantee does ukraine get to prevent vladimir putin from marching in further. that's where i think the announcement of secretary pompeo not being part of the administration is bad news and what i think president-elect trump is trying to do is give a sense he's going to talk tough and say don't expand the war. vladimir putin's just launched an enormous drone attack on ukraine. it's going to be going through the winter. he's going to smash up the infrastructure. it's clear the russians are gaining ground in the east. i'm not sure if i were vladimir putin i would pay too much attention on those words. right now it looks as though pup has the upper hand. >> it will be interesting, mika. you have the north koreans that

will be fighting and trying to push further with the russians into ukraine. the question is, again, we talked about this a good bit over the past few years. you have donald trump what he says to vladimir putin and then you have the policies that have been fairly tough in the first administration because the senate was pushing really tough restrictions. i think the last thing he would want, wanting to be seen as a strong man, would be to have -- be forever remembered as the guy who lost ukraine to vladimir putin. it's going to be interesting. >> yeah. >> to see if there's any settlement, what it looks like. >> leaders of political organizations who have been against donald trump are grappling with the president-elect's return to the white house and looking to create a new playbook to combat the policies of a second trump administration. in january of 2017 millions of americans across the country took to the streets for the women's march in opposition of donald trump.

they were organized, beginning of the broad coalition that successfully swept trump out of power and gave democrats a governing trifecta in the 2020 elections. now some of the most ardent trump defectors say they need to shift focus. it's been said, quote, it's not enough for people to hit the streets. we need to build political power. we have connections to people who are building policy. i remember you saying during that march -- before it even -- there's an extent of building a coalition, building energy, but also keeping the data and then working with it. >> right, exactly. marches don't get you elected. they just don't. they work well, reverend al, in

the civil rights movement. just being the resistance, just going -- the resistance did not work against donald trump. it seemed like democrats talking to democrats. independents weren't swept along. republicans were fueled to go vote more. >> yeah. >> this is actually, i would think, a very positive viewpoint to just say maybe we focus less on these big events and organizations to do more like what republicans have been doing for a generation. going to school boards, electing school board members, electing county commissioners, electing people on the local level and building them movement. if you look at the map of this election, you have to go from california all the way over to virginia to find states that voted for kamala harris. everything else -- between the

two coasts, a deep, dark red. if you just look at that and say there's no way democrats are ever going to take control of the senate again unless they start figuring out how to win grassroots campaigns in the middle of the country. >> there's no doubt about the fact that you must have real organizing on the ground if you're going to effect policy and if you're going to make change happen. clearly, i think, what happens with some of the marches is that they became big events, but they were not connected to a movement on the ground that would change policy. you referred to the civil rights movement. there was a direct connection between dr. king and others that were marching and those trying to legislate the civil rights act of '64, voting rights act of '65. there will be gatherings on the inauguration day next year when

trump is inaugurated, but they'll be done by groups trying to organize policy. it happens to be martin luther king day, so they'll be there. they were good to raise issues, but they weren't connected to electing people. many were attacked by those who became overnight activists, i call them microwave activists. they get hot for a minute and cool off and you're left to organize and the people organizing are not the people with the flash marches. that's why you'll see some gatherings, but not those understanding they must be connected to policies and electing people, county, state, city as well as federal. our next guest was an early champion of vice president harris. how did he get the election so spectacularly wrong? david rothcough is digging into

that question when "morning joe" comes right back. ♪ maybe i'm foolish, maybe i'm blind ♪ ♪ thinkin' i can see through this and see what's behind ♪ ♪ 'cause i'm only human after all ♪ ♪ i'm only human after all ♪ ♪ oh, some people got the real problem ♪ ♪ some people out of luck ♪ liberty mutual customized my car insurance so i saved hundreds. with the money i saved i thought i'd get a wax figure of myself. cool right? look at this craftmanship. i mean they even got my nostrils right. it's just nice to know that years after i'm gone this guy will be standing the test of ti...

he's melting! oh jeez... nooo... oh gaa... only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ let's take a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning. there's yet more instability in haiti after the country's ruling council fired the prime minister. gary kaneil was just hired in may in hopes of tamping down a political power struggle.

haiti's last president was murdered in july of 2021 and no elections have been held since. supreme court justice sonia stomayor has no plans to step aside, that amid speculation that she should retire to give president biden a chance to fill the seat. senator bernie sanders was asked about it. >> before i let you go, i want to ask you about is supreme court. some democrats behind the scenes talking about the possibility should justice sotomayor step down to allow president biden to appoint someone who's younger. she's only 70 years old. is that something you support? do you think she should step down? >> no, i don't. >> have you heard any talk of this? >> a little bit, yes. i don't think it's the sensible

approach. >> you don't think it's a sensible approach? >> correct. >> well, bernie, man of few words there. i will say roe was overturned because donald trump was able to fill the appointment of ruth bader ginsburg who did not retire. it's just reality. >> yeah. >> it changed -- it changed 50 years of precedence. >> changed everything for women. >> i don't think he can just say no, it doesn't make sense. it probably makes sense to talk about it. why don't democrats keep doing what they've been doing? they're leaders in washington, d.c. and pretending if they're polite and never offend everybody, everything will go away. it doesn't. >> that's a bigger conversation. >> yeah, that is a bigger conversation which we'll be talking about in our must read

opinion pages. this op-ed yesterday, so many people talking about this. >> a lot of calls about it. >> all day yesterday. they talked in this article about things democrats were afraid to talk about. finally, pbs kids is rolling out a new animated series for younger children that features main characters with autism. according to the network, "carl the collector" was designed to highlight neuro divergent kids. the show's creator said they'll encourage empathy and understanding and celebrate the entire spectrum of humanity. i like that. >> this is so important. i have a son that has

asberger's. you would see kids that never fit in and you didn't know why. they were on the spectrum. this is obviously great for kids to see. still ahead on "morning joe," our next guest says there were two huge problems that kamala harris couldn't escape. david french joins us with his latest piece in "the new york times" when "morning joe" comes right back.

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police have arrested more than 60 people following anti-semitic attacks in amsterdam. the violence erupted thursday during a soccer match. authorities say there were confrontations before and after the game. in some instances fans were chased through the streets and pelted with fireworks. according to "the wall street journal" israeli soccer fans say the violence came to a boil

after two days of being stalked and harassed in amsterdam. the city's mayor says the messaging app telegram was used to talk about going on jew hunts. one israeli soccer fan told the journal the attacks, quote, they knew exactly where we stayed, which hotels, which streets we were going to take. >> so frightening. qatar has stopped mediating the cease-fire talks between israel and hamas. they halted their efforts because both sides have failed to make progress. they're willing to resume if israel and hamas show a genuine intent to negotiate. meanwhile saudi arabia kicks off a summit aimed at addressing the conflicts in gaza and lebanon,

bringing together top officials from arab and islamic countries. it would serve as an indicator as to what might be expected joining us now, nbc news chief international correspondent keir simmons. keir, what are you learning? >> reporter: it's an extraordinary arab/islamic summit and it is a gathering to show support for gaza and lebanon. now, there are going to be critics who say there's going to be a lot of talk here. it's a one-day summit. what it does underscore is the way arab and islamic countries have been driven together over the past year. we're seeing the first vice

president of iran, the president of syria is here. so a united front being demonstrated, hosted by saudi arabia. of course, a high-level delegation of the palestinians is here too. president erdogan of turkey. the list goes on. there are 80 countries. one of the challenges that you really see here for president-elect trump is that the world has really changed. there is a different middle east. what we have seen from the kingdom of saudi arabia in the past few months is that it has shifted more towards insisting that there has to be a two-state solution, there has to be a palestinian state, before it would agree to normalization with israel or to a treaty alliance with the united states, which is that mega deal that people have been talking about through the biden administration, but also kind of

a child of the abraham accords that was birthed during the first trump administration. that's one example of the way that things have really changed since 2016. just another example to think about is that during the first trump presidency there was of course that war in yemen between the houthis, saudi arabia, that isn't happening anymore. as well as speaking to president-elect trump, yesterday they had a telephone call with the president of iran. in fact, as i mentioned, the vice president of iran is here. we're seeing from the gulf states, particularly saudi arabia, they're trying to lean into diplomacy with iran even while israel and prime minister netanyahu is talking about confrontation with iran, a stark

difference. i should say, president-elect trump is friends with netanyahu. one question is who is he going to listen to? >> you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. my moderate to severe ulcerative colitis symptoms kept me... out of the picture. now i have skyrizi. ♪ keeping my plans, i'm feeling free. ♪ ♪ control of my uc means everything to me. ♪ ♪♪ ♪ control is everything to me. ♪

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qualify to sell your policy. don't cancel or let your policy lapse without finding out what it's worth. visit coventrydirect.com to find out if your policy qualifies. or call the number on your screen. coventry direct, redefining insurance. we want to get to the maureen dowd piece. we're going to read the entire piece, but it's worth it. i think a lot of people have already been talking about this. we got a lot of calls about this piece. it's an interesting message for democrats. maureen dowd's piece entitled, democrats and the case of mistaken identity politics. it crystallized how some democrats are realizing that woke is broke and maureen writes

this, donald trump won a majority of white women and remarkable numbers of black and latino voters and young men. democratic insiders thought people would vote for kamala harris even if they didn't like her, to get rid of trump. but more people ended up voting for trump, even though many didn't like him because they liked the democratic party less. i've often talked about how my dad stayed up all night on the night harry truman was elected because he was so excited and my brother stayed up all night the first time trump was elected because he was so excited. and i felt that democrats would never recover that kind of excitement until they could figure out why they had turned off so many working class voters over the decades and why they had developed such disdain toward their once loyal base. democratic candidates have often been avatars of elitism.

michael dukakis, al gore, hill clinton, barack obama. the party embraced a world view of hyper political correction, con did he know seine shun and cancellation. this alienated half of the country, if not more. and the chaos of anti-semitism at college campuses didn't help. when the woke police came at you, you don't even get your miranda rights read to you. there were a lot of democrats barking, people who don't represent anybody and the leadership of the party was intimidated. donald trump played to the irritation of many americans,

disgusted as being regarded for being insensitive. at rallies he referred to women as beautiful and admonished himself saying he would get in trouble for using that word. >> there are strong and i would say beautiful, but i'm not allowed to use that term with women, because if you say beautiful, it means the end of your career in politics. you're not allowed to say a woman's beautiful. i will not tell you how beautiful they are, but they're beautiful. strong, beautiful, intelligent women, they won. they won. >> continuing with maureen dowd, one thing that makes democrats great is that they support groups that have suffered from inequality. but they have to begin avoiding extreme policies that alienate many americans who would otherwise be drawn to the party. democrats learned the hard way in this election that mothers

care, and this is a key line in this piece, that mothers care both about abortion rights and having their daughters compete fairly and safely on the playing field. keep that in mind. >> keep this in mind. a revealing chart showed that white progressives hold views far to the left of the minorities they champion. white progressives think at higher rates than hispanic and black americans that, quote, racism is built into our society. get this. many more black and hispanic americans surveyed compared with white progressives responded, quote, america is the greatest in the world. >> gob smacked democrats have reacted in different ways. some think kamala did not court

the left enough. other democrats feel the opposite, calling on the party to re-imagine itself. a vulnerable democrat in a red congressional direct in washington, narrowly held her seat. the mother of a toddler told "the times" that democratic con did he seine shun has to go. there's not one weird trick that's going to fix the democratic party. it's going to take parents of young kids, people in rural communities, people in the trades running for office and being taken seriously. on cnn the democratic strategist julie said that democrats did not know how to talk to normal americans. take a look. >> we are not the party of common sense, which is the message that voters sent to us, for a number of reasons. for a number of reasons we don't know how to speak to voters.

when we address -- language has meaning. when we address latino voters as latinx because it's politically correct it makes them think we don't live on the same planet as they do. when we're too afraid to say, college kids, if you're trashing the campus at columbia university because you're unhappy and you're taking over a university and trashing it and preventing other students from learning, that's unacceptable. we're so worried about alienating one or another cohort in our coalition that we don't know what to say when normal people look at that and say, i sent my kids to college to learn, not to burn builds. >> dowd continues, kamala made the colossal mistake of running a billion dollar campaign with celebrities like beyonce when many voters she courted couldn't

afford a ticket to a beyonce concert. i don't think kamala harris gets what i'm going to an average voter said. kamala who sprinted to the left in 2020 tried to move to the center making sure to say she would shoot an intruder with her glock. it sounded tinny. the trump campaign's successful ad featured kamala supporting tax-funded transgender surgery for prisoners. james car vil said the party had become enamored of

identitrianism. we could never wash off the stench of it calling defund the police the three stupidest words. it's like when you get smoke on your clothes and you have to wash them again and again. now people are running away from it. >> reverend al, on defunding the police, we were talking about how representatives in the toughest parts of new york city, in real time, were saying defund the police, no. we need more police on the street protecting our children as we walk to school. we need more children in the classroom, you know, in the classrooms more police officers, safety officers so our children can go to and from class, so our businesses can be safe, so we can live a safe life. it's something, again, you have a great line about wokeness and

limousine liberals. this is what we've known since 2017 and what you and i have talked about that white elitists that run the democratic party are far to the left of many black and hispanic voters in the democratic. i remember a pollster for barack obama, i think david -- i think his name was david saks. he came out and had that poll in 2017 and he got absolutely hammered on twitter, absolutely hammered by the far left. how dare you say this. how dare you. but he was right. it was true in 2017 and it was doubly true in 2024 that these white progressives on the far far left said we're going to save you black and hispanic people of america.

a lot of black and hispanic people said no thanks. you're kind of wild. you're too far left. we believe in the american dream. we want to be part of the american dream. thanks, but no thanks. keep that in your college classes. rev? >> absolutely. the whole goal of the civil rights movement and the movement now is to correct the system, not to overthrow the system and to make things work equally for everyone, not to just upturn everything and change everything to some undefined utopia. these latte liberals that speak for people that they don't speak to, that want to lead people that they don't even like, are running around trying to represent things that was never part of what we were saying. all of us that were on the forefront and still are of police reform, never said efund the police.

we were trying to get police of color and other circumstances up in these departments to deal with stop and frisk and other things. when you disregard and disrespect common people that are trying to get their kids in college and pay the tuition and student debt and loan forgiveness and all that, you're going to disrupt the campus -- it was very interesting to me tn the causes they wanted to fight and the causes on the ground that every day people had to deal with. they were absent which is why many -- i texted you on that last week. it's like when people raised the problem came to us and the woke people -- i don't know what they were woke from. we were never asleep. they were taking a nap while we were dealing with people on the ground. coming up, joe's recent conversation with rock icon sir elton john. they discuss what inspired his broadway musical and the

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elton john is back on broadway. the emmy, grammy, and tony, rock 'n' roll hall of famer is out with the new movie, tammy faye, telling the story of tammy faye messner. last week we brought you the creative force behind the musical here now is more of that conversation. >> you all had a limited run in london. >> yes. >> went extremely well. >> really well. >> what connected the audiences there? >> i think, to british audiences, they didn't know who jim and tammy were. they weren't as familiar with it. it's very much an american thing. the story of her faith, and the power of her faith. we had people in tears. we had multiple standing ovations during the show because they gravitated to and connected

with tammy's heart, and then of course the brits love a character. they love funny, quirky characters, and this whole world is inhabited by the most unbelievable characters. when we started working on it, we don't have to make anything up. this is the most perfect three act opera in real life terms. it is so crazy, and it's all true. and so i think audiences really were quite plugged into the whole story, and found it wonderful. the show is fantastic. music, katie, who played tammy, she has the most unbelievable voice, and a fantastic actress. brilliant choreography, a sharp, witty book by james graham, one of britain's greatest writing talents. fantastic songs by jake and elton. there was a lot to love in the show, and the audiences really took it to heart. >> jake, can i ask you, exactly how do you sit down and write

with sir elton john? i mean, because i'm sure you -- i told you before, i've been writing songs since my mom gave me my greatest christmas present ever, elton john's greatest hits in 1974, i said that's what i want to do. so how do you sit down and write with somebody that has meant so much to so many people, and redefined the music time and again? >> we originally started writing songs. i was in a band called scissor sis sisters for a long time. and we wrote the biggest scissor sisters song we ever had. i don't feel like dancing was the number one most played song on uk radio that year. >> that was one of the few songs, i went to the studio. i was on tour, and i went to see how they were doing, and they were stuck. when i went there, i said, have you ever heard of bo didley. no, they haven't.

we you tubed bo didley. so i actually put a song down the piano, which i had never done before. i put the melody down, and they finished it off. which is unusual. ridiculous. it was great fun. >> we had a history of making songs together, and so i just start with a stack of lyrics that might be really rough, that are just kind of ideas and bring them in. we've got multiple days in the studio together. we're going in knowing we're going to be on a ride for a little while. we have a great time. we thumb through the lyrics, we talk about the songs, the feels, and he picks one and sends me around the corner to hide behind a couch. >> when you write the music, i start at the beginning. when you make an album, it's

which changes all the time, but lord", and then he's inside you, i think. >> "he's inside me," there's a song called "he's inside me." . >> can i ask you something about your song writing and how it connects with this. i've noticed, again, growing up in the deep south, and if you grow up in the deep south, a lot of stuff comes pretty naturally as far as music goes. i've noticed with your music, though, from the very beginning, it's almost like you grew up there. because there's always been this gospel feel about how you play the piano. can i ask how a kid from england, how you got that in your music? >> honestly, i don't know. i think in a past life, i grew up in the south in a past life. i love that kind of music. i've always loved gospel music. if you're not moved by it, you're not human. rock 'n' roll, country, blues, all came from the south, really.

it all started in the south, and i don't know, i'm drawn to that kind of music because it moves me. the spirit of it moves me. this was manna from heaven to write gospel-tinged songs, right? >> you say when in doubt, write a hymn. whenever elton john is thinking of an approach to a song, when in doubt, write a hymn. >> when i see a lyric on the page, i'm transfixed and i'm moved and i'm inspired. and so, you know, i write pretty quickly, and so whenever he gave me lyrics, the song didn't take that long to write. obviously we've added songs as the musical has gone on. some songs have been taken out. some songs have been replaced. i replaced them. but it's always joyous. you know there's a beginning, you know there's an end, and you have to make sure it sounds good, and it fits the character. and this was manna from heaven, writing these songs about people in the south. >> that's so exciting.

>> and the last time i -- the last song that we wrote for this show, the day i was coming back in to listen to the demo, i was an hour late and i was just sweating it. i never want to be late for elton, ever, and i was so -- i was just like, oh, my god, i kept calling him, i'm stuck in traffic. and when i got there, you had the biggest smile in your face, and he said, you're going to be really happy, and you played back the song that we had made. >> which was the song. >> it was "don't shine a light." >> ♪ don't shine a light on me don't shine a light on me ♪ ♪ don't shine a light on me ♪ >> oh yeah. and we were both so thrilled. it's those moments writing together when you know that you've written something really great, there's nothing like it. it's just the best feeling in the world. >> you can catch tammy faye, a new musical at the palace

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it's our son, he is always up in our business. it's the verizon 5g home internet i got us. oh... he used to be a competitive gamer but with the higher lag, he can't keep up with his squad. so now we're his “squad”. what are kevin's plans for the fall? he's going to college. out of state, yeah. -yeah in the fall. change of plans, i've decided to stay local. oh excellent! oh that's great! why would i ever leave this? -aw! we will do anything to get him gaming again. you and kevin need to fix this internet situation. heard my name! i swear to god, kevin! -we told you to wait in the car. everyone in my old squad has xfinity. less lag, better gaming! i'm gonna need to charge you for three people. we expect president joe biden and vice president kamala harris to pay respects their. >> and what a wonderful day to stop and reflect on those who have given their all, and of course the 11th month, the 11th day of the 11th month and the

11th hour was armistice day in world war i, and that's why we recognize veterans day when we do. jonathan lemire, i'm just curious, like, growing up and, is jonathan lemire there or is he -- >> i am here! can i see him for a second. i don't have object permanence. there he is. great. like a little baby. don't have object permanence. i'm curious about your kids because my kids -- my kids through the years have gotten off for like everything. like bart simpson day. right? wild flowers day. eat a burrito in one bite day. they get off for everything. >> a lot of teacher meetings days. surf day. at least my kids don't get off for veterans day. are your kids off today for veterans day? >> my kids are in public

schools, and they are off today. i was surprise bid that phenomenon as well. talking to friends of ours who have kids that go to private schools or other districts who aren't off today. who have school. you always had veterans day off. and i think an important day off, i'm glad we showed arlington national cemetery there, both of my -- both of my grandfathers served in world war ii. i have had other family members who served in the military. it's an important day to pay our respects who dawned the uniform for our country, and one i think all schools should be closed for? >> i agree. and i'm so glad your school district does it. it's irritated me through the years, public, and private schools, they have not in some of the school districts, not taken the day off because of course we owe our freedom. we owe everything to these veterans. and there are so many people

whose lives have been touched by family members that have served in afghanistan, iraq, vietnam, other wars. and, like you, my grandparents, my grandfathers were in world war i, and world war ii, and, you know, it meant so much to the family, and it's just a wonderful day to stop and reflect. >> yeah. >> david french, do your kids -- are they in a school district where they get veterans day off? >> my daughter went to school this morning. so, no, at her school, they don't get veterans day off new york city. >> i don't get it, david. i don't get it. we'll figure that out. including the prospect of kentucky basketball this year. speaking of family members, my mother and father went to

kentucky, and it was -- this time of year was, yeah, my dad would drive us around the southeast to follow adolph rupp and the kentucky wildcats. it's been a couple of tough years, but a good year coming up. >> it's an exciting year. the new coach is bringing, had a title, recruited a lot of great players. wasn't getting the performance he was before. it was time for a new coach. >> and it is going to soon be time to read david french's wonderful piece from the "new york times." it's really good. we thank you for being with us. the trump transition team has started the process of filling key roles in his administration. as the president-elect prepares to meet with president biden at the white house this week. nbc news senior capitol hill correspondent garrett haake has the very latest. >> on day one, i will launch the largest deportation program in american history. >> overnight, president-elect

donald trump announcing a key role in his new administration, writing that tom homan will oversee the nation's borders and be in charge of all deportation of illegal aliens back to their country of origin. homan has been an outspoken critic of the current administration. >> i got a message to the millions of illegal aliens that joe biden released in our country in violation of federal law, you better start packing now. >> testifies a supporter of trump's controversial zero tolerance families, which led to thousands of families being separated at the border. homan asked about trump's future mass deportation plans. >> is there a way to carry out mass deportation without separating families? >> of course there is. families can be deported together. >> it comes as trump is looking to consolidate his power in washington. >> we have taken back control of the senate.

that's good. on sunday, demanding that the senate allow recess appointments which would let the president-elect put cabinet officials in place without them going through the confirmation process or getting a vote. the three possible candidates for republican senate leader quickly posting agreement. meanwhile, president biden is preparing to host trump apt the white house on wednesday. it's the first encounter between the two men since their debate last june with biden's shaky performance forcing him out of the race. the president ignoring questions on sunday. >> do you believe that trump is a threat to democracy? all of this as allies of biden and vice president harris grapple with the path ahead for anxious democrats. >> to me, it's not justice about the campaign. it's what does the democratic party stand for? >> several democratic governors are making plans to push back against the policies of the trump administration. in california, governor gavin newsom has called for the state legislature to convene a special session next month to bolster the state's legal resources on

issues like climate change, reproductive health care, and immigration. in massachusetts, governor maura healey has said she would use, quote, every tool in the tool box to combat the trump administration, and vowed to absolutely not allow state police to participate in trump's promised mass deportation of undocumented immigrants. in illinois, j.b. pritzker struck a similarly defiant tone. >> to anyone who intends to come take away the freedom and opportunity and dignity of illinoisans, i would remind you that a happy warrior is still a warrior. you come for my people, you come through me. >> and minnesota governor tim walz delivered his first public remarks following tuesday's election loss and promised as the state's governor through

2027 to fight to protect minnesotans from the incoming trump administration's quote, hateful agenda. >> look, we know what's coming down the pipe, we know it because they told us. and we're going to have to be ready to defend the progress that we've made here in minnesota. the other side spent a lot of time campaigning and talking about and promising that they would leave things up to the states. well, i'm willing to take them at their word for that. [ applause ] but the moment they try and bring a hateful agenda into this state, i'm going to stand ready to stand up and fight for the way we do things here. >> david french, your new column for the "new york times" is entitled there were two huge problems harris could not es cape, what are they? >> these are the things by which

presidents are judged, peace and prosperity. if everything is the same, in other words, the campaigns are run the same, the same candidates, but there was no disastrous retreat from afghanistan. inflation had not gotten out of control for a time period, and there wasn't a migrant surge, we're having a very different conversation now. this was a race that was conducted against the backdrop of some facts that were incredibly difficult for the harris campaign to overcome. and also against a global backdrop that saw every incumbent party in the world being punished after covid inflation, every incumbent party in the world, and i sometimes feel like we spend too much time talking about the details and tactics of campaigns and not enough time talking about the underlying fundamentals, and kamala harris was running against some very strong headwinds here. >> you know, so what's so interesting is you talk about

peace and prosperity, and as i was reading it, that's pretty simple. right? >> yeah. >> i mean, peace and prosperity, it's why bill clinton was successful in the 1990s when republicans were shocked that people would be voting for him against two world war ii veterans, two world war ii heroes, but peace and prosperity. you look on the peace side of it, in gaza, in that war, in ukraine, you had with netanyahu and putin, two people who saw themselves as allies of donald trump who would get a better deal after donald trump got elected, if donald trump got elected, so there's really no reason to hold back. there's never any reason to not go forward full throttle, and it's paid off for both of them. and then as far as prosperity goes, you know, it is funny. somebody said last hour that within three months, four months, there will be people on tv talking about how america's

economy is the strongest economy in the world because america's economy is the strongest economy in the world relative to the rest of the world, stronger than any time since 1945, the end of world war ii. everything that i have been saying for the past several years, we're lapping china, we're doing so much better. you look at ai, silicon valley, main street. inflation is down. you look at the job numbers, everything is booming, it's fantastic. but with working americans the cost of groceries, the cost of gasoline, even though inflation, we see that number down to where the fed wants it around 2%. 2 1/2%. there's still sort of the stacking on effect from 2021, '22, '23, and here we are in '24, right? >> well, by some measures, americans families aren't going to fully recover, where their income is above the rate of inflation. recover to their 2019 status until 2025.

so the overhang from that earlier inflation, and as you were saying 2022 is still there. people are still behind, even though at the end of this biden first term, wages started to catch up. to fully catch up, you have to go into 2025, and you have the higher interest rates. it was very telling, joe. it was very telling that trump won lower income voters when in 2020 he lost lower income voters decisively. so who was most impacted by inflation and higher interest rates, low income voters. he won that cohort. that was a big switch because in 2020, biden won that cohort by double digits. and so that is a community most impacted by inflation, and we're sitting here talking about messaging, messaging, messaging, when the reality is, yeah, that stuff makes a difference on the margins. but the fundamental challenge was still there. >> the question is, you know,

the voters that came out that made the difference in 2020. in milwaukee, in detroit, in philadelphia, in atlanta. working class voters, white, hispanic, black working class voters came out. made the difference. gave joe biden the margin of victory in those swing states. it didn't happen this year, and david's point is of course there are a lot of people that were really stretched, that were working class, and there wasn't, as reverend al said a month ago, there wasn't the excitement where he had seen it four years ago in milwaukee, detroit, philadelphia. >> people vote their pocketbook, and that was made extremely event given the dark rhetoric on the trump side, people still voted their pocketbook. democratic senator chris murphy of connecticut posted this a few minutes ago, quote, of the 20 highest median income states, democrats won 18 of them. of the 20 lowest median income

states, democrats won three. yes, race and gender play a big role in politics. but the hard truth is this, democrats clearly aren't listening to the people we say we fight for. >> let's bring in columnist for the daily beast, david roth cloth, one looking back, and one looking ahead, why was i so wrong about kamala harris winning, and in your substack piece, titled "breathe, prepare resist," about trump returning to the white house. i want to ask you this question, you know, because you look at a lot of things. of course we're all looking at the swing states. i will tell you, i'm looking at the middle of the country, and how red the middle of the country is because, you know, democrats are never going to retake the senate if they don't learn how to start winning in places like nebraska again, and places like oklahoma again. you know, you and i grew up with

democratic senators, stall warts from middle america. taxes, democrats have been talking about taking in time because of the change in demographics, and many believe '24 or '28 would be the year. the democrats, the presidential candidate and senate candidate, you know, lost like 10 points in texas. you look along the texas border, all of those border towns with a lot of hispanics, they went for trump. florida, deep, deep red, a state that biden lost by three points four years ago. the question is, as you're talking about reflecting on the loss, what do democrats need to do to re-connect with working class voters that have really been abandoning them for 30 years? >> i think your question contains the answer. they need to reconnect with

working class voters, and the way you do that at first is you listen to them. and i think it's not just working class voters who are inclined to vote republican, it's also working class voters who are prone to vote democrat who just didn't show up in this election. you know, the election was a little bit closer than most people are talking about. there's a really good piece in the "new york times" today by john della voe pea, if there was a 1% swing in wisconsin, michigan and pennsylvania, kamala harris would be the president-elect. why wasn't that 1% swing there? why wasn't the turnout better throughout the country? because somehow democrats didn't motivate their own base and they didn't attract the republican base. so chris murphy's point is exactly right. the point you have been making throughout this show is exactly right. it's time to listen.

it's time to break out of the patterns of, you know, sort of the echo chamber. you know, i believe that this thing was going to turn out for kamala harris because i kept hearing the same things over. she had momentum. she had the women's vote from roe v. wade. she had young voters. she had crossover voters from the republican party. not all of those things could be wrong, right? well, all of those things were wrong. and, you know, we need to get back to figuring out how to attract people who are regular main street voters, but also to motivate democrats who are regular main street voters who just simply sat on their hands this time. >> go ahead, joe. >> so important, i'm so sorry, jonathan, and i'm so upset that their children did not get off for veterans day that i wasn't

listening to the cues from alex, so my apologies to all of you and the children who were not able to pay respects to veterans. jonathan, there are two things here we need to talk about. david brought him up, one is this idea that democrats -- you hear this every four years. oh, if in 2004 it was, oh, if john kerry had just gotten the number of votes or the number of people that go to an ohio state buckeyes game, he would have beaten george w. bush in 2004, and then, you know, people were saying in 2016, if hillary had only gotten a slice of votes here and there, then in 2020, if donald trump had gotten 45,000 more votes across certain states, he would have been president. you hear this every four years. that's true. and if democrats want to win

that way, they can win that way. i say the bigger problem that they need to focus on that david is underlining here is not just sneaking by in wisconsin, michigan, in pennsylvania every four years. pennsylvania, by the way, getting much harder because of republican registration going up. how do you start winning in the heartland again? because until you do that, you lose the senate every two years, every four years, every six years. they have got to rebuild a national party and not just a party that helps them win by 40,000 votes across three blue wall states. >> yeah, i mean, even just in the immediate electoral concern, i was speaking to one of the top named democratic party two years ago, who said this, might have been the last cycle, pennsylvania, since it's turning -- according to the models, becoming more and more like ohio, a state demographically that has gone very red.

pennsylvania seems like it's going in that direction too. we also know, and there's been some chatter about this in recent day, if demographic trends continue, after the 2030 census, and the electoral college votes change, the blue wall states wouldn't be enough for democrats necessarily to get to 270. there's a reckoning, a moment. it seems like the party is willing to do it to see what could be next to sort of broaden its appeal to not just be a coastal party, to not just be a party of white college graduates or the elites as opponents might say, but to appeal to all americans, including those in the heart line. ezra klein explains, "the democratic blind spot that wrecked 2024," he writes in part this. if democrats had been wiped out in the 2022 midterms, the pressure on biden to be the transitional figure he'd promised to be would have been immense. in 1994 and in 2020, democrats suffered shellackings to use

barack obama's memorable term. in each case, the administration took the beating as skp refocused on the voters it had lost but the biden administration wasn't forced into that kind of pivot. instead of focusing on the voters they were losing, biden and the democrats kept focusing on the voters they were winning. perhaps, if the democrats had felt the full force of voter fury in the midterms, they would have spent the intervening two years doing everything in their power to quell it or finding a candidate who could answer it. david french, let's get your takes right there on what joe and i were just talking about, about the broadened appeal, and also what ezra just wrote. >> i think what ezra wrote is spot on. look, one of the things that happened in 2022 is we had an aberrational election. we had an aberrational election in part because this was a maga election without donald trump at the top of the ticket. and so maga without trump has never proven to be very effective at all. maga with trump obviously is as

effective as we have seen. i think it was a mirage in 2022, that democrats were doing better than they were going to ultimately do in 2024. and all of the arguments, even if you had a true argument, like joe was very eloquently stating truth about the strength of the american economy, just a minute ago. absolutely true, but not comforting to people, who are struggling with the after effects of inflation, just say, well, you know, milk or eggs cost more in france or australia or great britain. that's not much of a consolation, even if it is in a macro sense, you know, a better reflection on the biden administration. >> yeah, i don't live in france, how does that help me? exactly. david, let's follow up on the ezra klein piece. it's a great point. every speech i have given over the past 20 years, i talk about the ebb and flow of american politics and how one party goes

too far left. they are corrected in the midterm and readjust. one party goes too far right, they correct in the midterm, and you know, i learned this firsthand when bill clinton got elected in '92, passed a really big tax cut. he was painted as a left ring radical, instead of an arkansas governor we shut down the government, going toward balancing the budget, seen as going too far right. bill clinton got reelected in '96. you know, barack obama, 2008, the same thing, he wins this massive sweeping victory. it's the end of history. two years later, history hasn't ended. the tea party comes in and says it's our turn now. we're going to control washington forever. two years later people are going, yeah, too far. why don't we have you guys balancing each other out. it's very interesting. in '94's realignment, that pushed bill clinton to actually

say to jeers from the republican congress, the age of big government is over. he said it. he readjusted. he won in '96. when republicans never thought he could win again. it's the same thing with barack obama. he started talking to republicans in 2011 and '12 about the deficit, about spending caps, and again, his base hated, but he did it anyway. just like bill clinton, you know, he talked about welfare reform. he talked about balancing the budget after he got the shellacking, as barack obama would say, and so, it's hard to say, well, gee democrats lost this time because they didn't get shellacked two years ago, but ezra, it's a compelling argument there wasn't really that reckoning two years ago, that would make joe biden not

run for reelection, and make democrats look at some of the policies that just offended too many working americans? >> i'm sorry, go ahead. >> you have two davids as your guests. >> two davids here, my bad. why don't we go with david rothkopf first, and david french next. >> first of all, i found your point about swinging back and forth very compelling, just like i found david french's point earlier about the global trends compelling, and i think, you know, for democrats, looking ahead, what you have to recognize is that's going to work in their favor. there's something else working in their favor. donald trump doesn't actually do anything for lower income voters or middle income voters. he's likely to pass tax cults cuts that help the rich and don't help them. he's likely to do other things that are destabilizing to the economy, including tariffs that will raise their costs a lot. democrats can't just say, well,

see, those are the facts. that's what we have been doing before. what democrats have got to do is they've got to communicate to people, connect with people. understand what their concerns are, and then say, look, donald trump isn't working for you. we have an alternative. but it's teed up for us. it's teed up in the midterms, and it's teed up in 2028. >> joe, the one thing i would add to that, to your summary is, as you noted, history is littered with parties that thought their realignment was permanent, and it proved not to be. let's look at britain in 2019, you know, boris johnson had cracked the code to win over working class voters in 2024. labor wipes out the torys in a historic landslide. so if you don't perform, if you don't improve conditions for people on the ground, your realignment is not long for the

world, and now trump has to perform, and he's very good at being performative. i'm not so sure he's good at performing on the grounds of working class voters you're looking for. we'll see. >> well, performing is obviously so important. also, avoiding overreach. >> exactly. >> that's what haunted bill clinton in '94. that's what haunted barack obama in 2010. donald trump in 2018, that's why, as you look, you know, there was so much flying in donald trump's first two years in '17 and '18, and we all remember those scenes the first week of his presidency, and all the airports jammed and all the chaos. >> right. >> it would seem to me the goal this time should be to figure out how to come in and be the antithesis of what everybody expects. come in, do the job and figure out a way to do it, in a way where there aren't these huge

sort of explosions where you're not seen as overreaching. americans are funny. they'll say, yeah, we'll take this, this, and this. you give it to them in a way they don't like. we see the overreach and the reversal of fortune. so the goal should be figuring out how to find the middle. keep working class voters. and make sure your party doesn't get pounded two years from now. "new york times" opinion columnist, david french, and the daily beast's david rothkopf. we appreciate it. we'll see you soon. coming up on "morning joe," elon musk is endorsing a proposal that could radically reshape u.s. economic policy. we'll have the details for you straight ahead on that. plus, the latest business trends that find american workers saying no thank you to a promotion. >> really? >> cnbc's andrew ross sorkin joins us to explain.

look what's going up. >> it's the comcast commerce tree. >> making good little boys and girls across the world flood to new york city. see the commerce tree, and rush into the nbc experience store saying i must buy more, mommy. that is what the spirit of christmas is. >> they will also go to the lego store for sure. we'll be right back. (♪♪) i wish i had someone like evan when i started. somebody just got their first debit card! ice cream on you? ooo, tacos! i got you. wait hold on, don't you owe me money? what?! your money is a part of your community, so your bank should be too. like, chase! my moderate to severe crohn's symptoms kept me out of the picture. now i have skyrizi. ♪ i've got places to go and i'm feeling free. ♪ ♪ control of my crohn's means everything to me. ♪ ♪ control is everything to me.♪ and now i'm back in the picture.

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a live look at denver at 35 past the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." it's time now for a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning. climate related, extreme weather events cost the global economy more than $2 trillion over the past decade. with the u.s., the worst affected nation, according to a new report commissioned by the international chamber of commerce. in the last two years alone, global, economic damages were more than 450 billion. a 19% increase from the previous

eight years. >> boy, that is terrible. the impact that's going to have across america on homeowner's insurance, on being able to build in certain places, on just the cost of so many things. it's going to have an impact on the future. >> a cell phone ban in the country's sixth largest school district has sparked debate among parents, students and teachers, and also administrators. critics of the ban have raised safety concerns, arguing it could hamper communication during an emergency. a particularly sensitive topic in broward county, florida, after the 2018, parkland shooting at marjorie stoneman douglas high school. which is in the district. a survey found one in five parents found the cell phone ban is having a negative impact on their students' well being. and starting this spring semester, yale university will offer a course dedicated to studying beyonce entitled

beyonce makes history, black radical tradition history, culture, theory and politics through music. the aim, of course, according to its course description, is to use her work as a lens through which to examine black intellectual thought and activism. >> they did not offer these types of courses when i was at alabama. >> yeah. one of the major challenges facing a republican-controlled congress will be passing a bill on tax cuts while agreeing on what deficit number republicans in both chambers can live with. the "wall street journal's" richard reuben writes in part, quote, the number is the maximum budget deficit increase that republicans are willing to tolerate as they extend tax cuts scheduled to expire after 2025, and resurrect president-elect trump's plans. the bigger the number, the more net tax cuts congress can pass.

the smaller the number, the more the tax cuts must be dialled back or offset with spending cuts, tax cuts or tariffs. we need andrew for this. >> andrew, you know, i have been talking this morning, we have all been talking this morning about what democrats got wrong and what democrats need to focus on more, whether we're talking about the stupidity as james carville said. we read the entire maureen dowd piece, about defunding the police, how stupid that was, the whole idea, sort of this wokism run amok, yeah a lot of people in silicon valley didn't like that. a lot of working class americans really didn't like that. now let's go to the republican side and what i have been talking about my entire adult life, the deficit, the federal debt. it's a debt that has exploded just as much or more under republicans than democrats. but this isn't a republican or a democratic issue. we have talked about this before, andrew, you and i

through the years. this is an issue that will impact all americans because when the debt bomb goes off, we're all in big trouble. so what are the republicans going to do about the deficit, about the debt? or is it just going to be four more years like the last four years of donald trump and the eight years of george w. bush? >> you know, i think we're going to see a fight on this issue even inside the republican party on just how far they're willing to go on this budget. i don't know if americans fully appreciate, and it's happening right now, we are living in almost an alice in wonderland style of economy in that we continue to live so far beyond our means. we spent $1.8 trillion, with a "t," in this last calendar year, more than we took in. think about that for a second. $1.8 trillion more than we took in, and so, you know, when you

think about what tax cuts should look like in the future, how do you balance a budget in the future, that's a real demonstrable concern, and given all the processes that president-elect trump made on the campaign trail around reducing taxes, there's going to be a fight that's going to go on about what that deficit looks like. now, look, the goal has to be oddly enough, not just what does the deficit look like but what does growth look like in this country. i think most economists think we need a minimum of 3% growth annually to be able to maintain the current deficits that we have on the table. and so that's where a lot of the fight is going to be. and then there's going to be a big question in terms of how you do the estimates on tariffs. again, how are those tariffs used? what is going to be the inflationary effect on this new immigration policy. you already have people not coming into the country, within the past week, folks say they are not coming, but then there's going to be the deportation effort. it could be in three or four

months, in the same we lived through this with the pandemic, you know, back of the house in a restaurant, it will be harder to find an employee. hopefully they find some americans who want those jobs. but they might have to pay more for those jobs. we're all going to be paying more for the food. there's a lot of sort of complex variables here that we need to consider. >> right. and we remember post covid, entire family restaurants being half open for a year or two because they couldn't find workers, and you get families, small businesses having the same problem everywhere they went. jonathan lemire, i would hear the same thing from small business owners saying we can't get workers who can't get work visas here, and so there's a lot of give and take. i will say, and i know you have a question about elon musk, i will say the real challenge for people at home that don't understand about deficits and the federal debt is this, if

you're cutting taxes, if you're increasing military spending, if you're allowing entitlement spending to continue to grow at unsustainable rates, and domestic spending is going up, republicans always say, oh, well, you know what, we're going to slash domestic spending. yeah, great, that's about 8%, 9% of the budget. if you're passing massive tax cuts, the military spending continues to skyrocket. entitlements continue to explode. listen, i hate to be the bearer of bad news, fiscally, we're screwed. i have been saying this my entire life. by the way, when i ran, people said we could never balance the budget. too extreme, we did it four years in a row. maybe ten years, maybe a dozen years, but the markets need to see america moving toward a balanced budget, something that hasn't happened under any presidents, republican or democratic alike this century. >> yeah, the markets need to see

that, and i think there is a sense, andrew, that business leaders will have a potential say, even an informal one, may be the ones to talk him out of the mass deportations because of what it would do to the economy. one business leader he's listening to is elon musk, who even, per reporting, was in on a call that trump had with volodymyr zelenskyy of ukraine. >> he did apparently have that call, and that appears to just demonstrate the power and influence that elon musk has sitting next to the president-elect down at mar-a-lago. it also raises questions, and i thought you might allude to this, but there was a tweet that elon put out over the weekend suggesting that he was in agreement with congressman lee who said that the federal reserve should not be independent, that the federal reserve should be controlled by the president and actually described the current structure of the federal reserve's

independence as unconstitutional. and so here you have not just a thought that seemed to be out of the normal, if you will, by congressman lee, but now being endorsed by elon musk, which then raises the question of ultimately is that going to be endorsed by the president-elect, and if it is, what does the market say about that. we were talking just before about debt and deficits and interest rates which investors have confidence in. we have relatively low interest rates compared to other countries. people believe we're going to pay them back. if the federal reserve is not independent, if it's controlled by the president, and people think that it doesn't have that kind of independent consistency, what does that do to the cost of everything, and that, i think, is a real question on investors' minds and public policy makers' minds this morning. >> really quick, workers refusing promotions, what's going on? >> so this one's fascinating.

we grew up, i think all of us grew up thinking you were supposed to climb the ladder, if you will, the corporate ladder in many ways, if you got a promotion, yes, i want that promotion. because i'm going to get paid more money, more power, this and that. apparently the new generation is not saying that. they're getting offered promotions and some 40% of them are saying don't give me the promotion, i don't want the promotion. they think it's too much heart ache, the money they're being offered often times is not enough or more given the new responsibilities being offered to them. it's a compete sort of mind shift around the way corporate america has worked for many many decades, and so i think it's going to raise, again, a lot of questions in the c suite and across the country about what workers really want anymore. >> cnbc's andrew ross sorkin, thank you. always a fascinating. good to see you. and still ahead on "morning joe," we'll take a closer look

at how social media apps are negatively impacting teens and adults as our next guest argues, tech has created a recipe for loneliness. "morning joe" will be right back. ning joe" will be right back

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i even made a new friend. i have a friend, and the absurd thing is she's actually an operating system. charles left her behind, but she's totally amazing. you know, she's so smart. she doesn't just see things in black or white. she sees this whole gray area, and she's helping me explore it, and we just bonded really quickly. i'm weird. that's weird, right? that i'm bonding with -- it's weird. >> i don't think so. actually, the woman i have been seeing, samantha, i didn't tell you, but she's an os. >> you're dating an os, what is that like? >> it's great, actually.

i feel really close to her, like when i talk to her, i feel like she's with me. >> that was a clip from the 2013 movie "her." in which a divorced writer cures his loneliness by developing a romantic relationship with a virtual assistant with artificial intelligence. earlier this year, the u.s. surgeon general declared loneliness an epidemic, one fooled in part by the rise and reliance on technology in every day american life. joining us now, lead consumer technology writer for the "new york times," brian chen. his latest piece is entitled how tech created a recipe for loneliness, and we already know from the surgeon general that there is an epidemic, and i think we all see it in our families, and communities, and the question is, if the tech companies won't work on this,

won't put in proper, perhaps, regulations on themselves in terms of who can use tech at what time in their lives, things like that, how does this problem get solved, and if you could state exactly how tech creates loneliness. >> yeah, thanks for asking. i think the specific aspect of social media that the researchers are pointing at is this issue of social comparisons, and that's when we compare ourselves to other people in unfavorable ways. so on social media that can manifest in many different ways, like, say, you could be comparing your body to somebody else's body, and say, oh, this person is prettier than i am, or your appearance and your newborn is developing nor slowly than another person's newborn, or say another friend has more likes and reshares than you do, and you might conclude that this person is more popular than i am. maybe i'm not very likable.

and the net result is that when people seem ahead of you, when you feel behind, you start to feel quite lonely. you feel isolated and alone behind your peers. and social media academics have been looking into this issue for years and pointing at how facebook and others can do a better job at enabling this sort of behavior where people feel like they're behind other people and making negative comparisons and how do you -- how do you mitigate those result. meta, for example, has given the option to hide the likes and reshares and so forth, but that hasn't been very effective. >> so, brian, a lot has been made about the advent of technology in terms of social media. isn't another piece of this a simpler one. you make the argument that it's about texting versus a phone call. we all text all the time. it's an easy way to check in with someone real quick. there are a lot of good things about that. at the same time, it doesn't replace a phone call, that idea

of that back and forth. and even a phone call, of course, doesn't replace that face-to-face personal interaction. talk to us about how technology has changed even in this simple way? >> yeah, definitely, text messaging is by far the most used communication method, even for work, it's common to use slack and other messaging apps to communicate. i think what happens when we rely too much on text messaging is we default to that as our way of connecting with other people. and a lot of teenagers in these studies done by harvard said that they felt like they were less lonely when they felt more connected with other people in a more authentic way. they were able to form an authentic bond and sense the same vibes, and that kind of thing, and it's very difficult to imagine, isn't it, that you could sense vibes and authenticity through a text message.

you know, you would sense that from a face-to-face interaction or at least a voice conversation. you could sense authenticity. i think that's something that's missing at a lot of conversations we have these days if we're primarily focused on text messaging. that was a number two issue that was underlined in the article for sure. >> the new piece is online for the "new york times" lead consumer technology writer brian chen, thank you very much for being on this morning. and finally this morning, we mentioned today is veterans day, and tomorrow marks exactly 20 years since a rocket-propelled grenade struck a helicopter carrying black hawk pilot tammy duckworth in iraq. she woke up at walter reed having lost her lives and partial use of her arms. she has served as a va official in president obama's first term,

a united states congresswoman, and a united states senator. and senator duckworth joins us now. she's a member of the senate armed services and foreign relations committees, and we are honored to have you on the show this morning. couldn't think of a more perfect guest for our moment today on the show to recognize this day. and we'd love for you to start off by telling our viewers what, perhaps, you would like them to consider on this day? >> well, i hope that they consider the service of all veterans, whether or not they were wounded or killed, but the fact that our veterans serve this country, and it didn't matter where they're from. i'm coming to you now, this is the mississippi river that separates illinois and missouri in the background. we had a reunion with mike fru over the weekend. and most of my crew, missouri national guardsmen, donald trump

voters, and myself, national guard, we came together because we love this country. and in this time, i think it's a time of healing and let's work together and move ourselves forward. what i ask you to think about is thank you, veterans. let's see what we can do for our country because that's who our veterans served. >> great point about coming out of a tumultuous election, this could be something to begin the healing and unifying. let's get to your thoughts about the armed service now. . we know recruitments are down. people don't feel compelled to the service that you and your peers obviously did. what is your message to those people about why this still matters? >> the country matters. democracy matters. national defense, if you care about everything from border security to the security on our streets, the national defense matters and having a strong military is important to the defense of our nation. and we are a leader in the free

world. the rest of the world looks to us. we do need to continue to serve. every time i that stepped out of my helicopter, whether it was in the sands of egypt or iraq or whether it was on a glacier in iceland or the amazon forest in guyana, all places i deployed to during my military service, all they saw was the american flag on my shoulder and we were there to help. we were there to help lead coalitions, and that matters a lot, and so what i say to young people, a life in the military or even a single tour in the military is one that you will cherish for the rest of your life. the picture is my crew right there, some of the men who saved my life, and you have a bond that is more precious than anything that you will every experience, having served with these amazing men and women who are willing to sacrifice for this nation. >> thank you so much for sharing your thoughts this morning. democratic senator tammy duckworth of illinois. thank you very much on this veterans day. and that does it for us this

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right now on msnbc, the second trump white house taking shape. president-elect tapping a key house ally as his first cabinet pick. who's in and who's out in his new administration? plus with lawmakers heading back to washington, house control still up for grabs as republicans inch closer to pulling off a trifecta. democrats hoping there are just enough votes to put them in the driver's cease.