i'm particularly proud of finally passing the pact act. [ applause ] this is the most significant law in our history, our nation's history. to help millions of veterans exposed to toxins by agent orange and burn pits during their military service. pits the size of football fields that incinerated the waste of war. tires, chemicals, batteries, jet fuel, and so much more. pits that left too many veterans with headaches, numbness, dizziness, asthma, and cancer. the pact act helped over 1 million veterans and their families get the benefits they deserve. they deserve those benefits. [ applause ] today, i'm proud to announce to

be able to expand the number of cancers covered under the pact act. and to all veterans who served in k 2 air base in uzbekistan, surrounded by toxins, we want to have your back like we did with agent orange. we'll rule to make sure you don't have to prove your illness is a consequence of your service, which is often too hard to do. [ applause ] god willing, we will make sure that any rare condition you've developed is covered. we're kplited to getting this rule in place by the end of my term. folks, this matters. too many of our nation's veterans have served only to return home to suffer from permanent effects of poisonous chemicals.

too many died like our son, beau, and sergeant first class keith robinson, to whom the pact act was named. after i signed the pact act, i handed a pen to his daughter. she and her mom are with us today. i don't know where you are, but god love you. there they are. stand up, ladies. [ applause ] and i mean this, i will never forget, after i handed the signing pen to that beautiful young lady who lost her whole world, she held the pen in her hand and she looked at me and said, "thank you. thank you for my daddy." god love you, honey. god love you. [ applause ]

but don't think she was just thanking me. she was thanking all of you here, all of us. everyone who fought hard and came together to keep our promise to our veterans, to keep the faith. my fellow americans, we stand here today and think about all that our veterans have given to our nation. serving and sacrificing in uniform just as they serve and sacrifice here at home. as educators, firefighters, law enforcement officers, construction workers, entrepreneurs, business leaders, doctors, nurses, elected leaders, and so much more. just as routinely, put aside differences to work together. this is the moment, this is the moment to come together as a nation. keep faith in each other. the world is dependent on each of you and all of us, all of you, to keep honoring the women and the men and the families who

have born the battle. keep protecting everything they've fought for. keep striving to heal our nation's wounds. keep perfecting our union. we're the only nation in the world built on an idea. every other nation is based on things like geography, ethnicity, religion. but we're the only nation, the only one in the world built on an idea. and that idea is we're all created equal, deserved and created equal throughout our lives. we haven't lived up to it every time, but we've never walked away from it. even when it's hard, especially when it's hard. today, standing together to honor those americans who have dared all, risked all, and given all to our nation, i'm going to say clearly, we never will give up. god bless our veterans and their

families. may god protect our troops today and always. god love you. thank you so much. [ applause ] >> and with the applause of the assembled gathering on this veterans day, good day. i am andrea mitchell in washington. we've been listening, of course, to president biden, leading veterans day remembrances for his final time as commander in chief at arlington national cemetery. his successor, president-elect donald trump, is fleshing out his second administration. just today, announcing his first cabinet choice, house republican conference chair and fear ally, congresswoman elise stefanik, as the new u.s. ambassador to the united nations nominee. last night, he named former i.c.e. director, immigration hard liner, and project 2025 contributor, tom homan as border

czar. homan's appointment does not need senate confirmation, an unprecedented move he is making as a litmus test. three republican senators competing to replace mitch mcconnell as majority leader, demanding there not be appointments needed. he wants to get his nominations in without hearings or senate votes. over the weekend, there was a clean sweep of the seven swing states when nbc news declared he'd won arizona. president trump is set to meet with president biden at the white house on wednesday. it is a traditional courtesy he did not extend to mr. biden four years ago. the two have not met face-to-face since they debated in june and, of course, they've been excoriating each other on the campaign trail ever since. the post reported among the foreign leaders calling the president-elect, vladimir putin spoke to mr. trump on thursday. that call, though, has not been confirmed by nbc news, and it was strongly denied today by the

kremlin. joining me now is "the new york times" chief white house correspondent, peter baker. and "washington post" senior national political correspondent ashley parker. peter, first to you. what's your take on the appointments so far as to stefanik, tom homan, when we might learn the other picks. i've been told the national security team could be as soon as this week. and the decision, his intention is to try to bypass senate confirmation. that's a key power of the senate. he's now making it a litmus test in order to back one of the three contenders who will be chosen this week for senate majority leader. >> yeah, he is taking advantage of the leadership void as mitch mcconnell steps down as leader and three, as you say, senators are trying to vie for his replacement. it is a sign of how much he controls the republican party. catering tokowtowing to

him is seen as the successful way to win the leadership position. there was a time not long ago in washington when congress viewed itself as a separate body of government that did not, in fact, take orders from the executive, even an executive of its own party, believed it has its own prerogatives to consider, didn't see itself as rubber stamp for the president of the united states or a president-elect. it's a sign of how things are changing. they're willing to effectively cede power when it comes to these appointments to him, that tells you a lot about where these next four years are going to go. in fact, a lot of people he's going to put in place or wants to put in place in the cabinet, these other positions, would not normally be confirmable in a normal senate, certainly a senate tightly, you know, divided the way this is. because he's picking people, looking to pick people anyway who have pretty, you know, out there ideas and are more controversial than some of the people he picked for his first

term. he's trying to get around that by saying you shouldn't be worrying about who i pick. >> peter, you say that donald trump's choice for attorney general is going to indicate how bent he is on revenge. his watergate. the justice department is supposed to be closed off from political influence and, of course, we're looking at a couple possible choices for attorney general that are being reported by our team and bloomberg. what is your reporting? >> yeah, i think that's exactly right. people watching that is a sign for how aggressively he is planning to pursue this sort of retribution, that's his word that he used during the campaign, once he takes office. he's talked repeatedly about prosecuting everybody from president biden and liz cheney and vice president harris and, you know, election workers who he thinks, you know, cheated him of his victory four years ago, and the prosecutors who have come after him in georgia and new york and so on. so if he picks somebody who is viewed as particularly an

aggressive, you know, acolyte, that will be a sign that he may be, in fact, heading down that road. if he picks somebody who is a little more of a conventional, mainstream republican, then perhaps it won't be quite as extensive as people fear. i think that's why people are watching that pick because it'll be a sign of how intent he is on, you know, getting payback against the people he's upset at. he is coming into office eight years after the first time a lot angrier and more bitter than he did the first time. these investigations and indictments and impeachments and conviction have, you know -- he convinces himself they're a wint hunt and he is being persecuted. he plans to turn the tables. >> and one of those -- well, one of the key players on there on the house side, jim jordan, the chair of judiciary committee, ashley parker and peter, he was on cnn yesterday and was asked about this very thing, about

whether there will be retribution. there's even talk about trying to make mark milley be called back to active duty so he can be court marshalled. look at what jim jordan had to say. >> many, many times. >> i don't think any of that is going to happen because we're the party against political prosecution. we're the party against going after your opponents, using law fair. >> of course, that was exactly the threat, ashley, on the campaign trail, almost on a daily basis, going after nancy pelosi, going after others considered political enemies. >> that's right. there are sort of two contradictory schools of thought when dealing with someone like now president-elect trump. the first is he says a number of things, but until he actually acts on them and does them, and that applies, for instance, to who he is going to appoint to his cabinet, nothing is final. and then the flip corollary,

which is seemingly contradictory, and in some ways it may be, is that when donald trump says he is going to do something, people should believe him. he knows what he wants. he's putting the people around him who also share that same world view increasingly, in a way he did not do when he won the presidency the first time in 2016. people should take him, as the cliche goes, both seriously and literally. >> joining us now is nbc's vaughn hillyard, who is near mar-a-lago. vaughn, as we talk about whether or not the justice department would be used to retaliate against enemies, something jim jordan says was not going to happen, just yesterday and when we talk about the possible choices for intelligence agencies and other, you know, secretary of state. what are you hearing about the possibilities? very controversial choices who might politicize those agencies. >> right. let's start with the department

of justice. mark paoleta is under consideration for attorney general. he's been at the forefront of making the argument that because the department of justice falls under the executive branch, there is no so-called independence between the attorney general and his doj and the directives of the president of the united states. that was a more recent era idea of how the department of justice should be run. if donald trump gets his way, he should be ready to fill the doj with the obligations and priorities he has. that includes going after prosecuting individuals they'll make the case and potentially seek the indictment on possible conspiracy charges for their efforts during the last four years. but then you're also looking at the cia and fbi. andrea, we were talking about this earlier, about the potential, we are told by two

sources, that kash patel is under consideration to be the director of either the cia or the fbi. of course, kash patel has really rose to prominence as a hard core maga trump loyalist for his criticisms of the department of justice and the intel agencies which he now seeks to potentially run. and this is where, for donald trump, we watched him over the course of his first administration repeatedly call into consider this idea of a deep state, of career federal workers working in these capacities, and you, yet -- upon leaving the white house, he criticized those individuals for not fulfilling the obligations of his first administration. we have heard from him a commitment to ensure that this go-around, from not only him but jd vance, the career civil workers are no longer in their positions, that would allow them to effectively block their priorities of the department of justice or the cia or the fbi,

and by bringing in individuals like kash patel, they would be able to effectively go in there and remove some of these individuals. of course, there are more than 4,000 political -- or political appointee positions within the executive branch of the federal government here. this is a big undertaking that donald trump could very well turn to the likes of a mark paoletta and kash patel to turn to those positions and make sure they upheld the trump agenda. >> ashley, democrats are blaming each other, many, for harris' loss. i want to play what speaker emerita nancy pelosi had to say "new york times." >> had the president gotten out sooner, there may have been other candidates in the race. kamala, i think, still would have won, but she may have been stronger, having taken her case to the public sooner. >> she also suggested in the interview she would have favored

an open primary. ashley? >> so it is fascinating. of course any time a candidate for president loses, there's a ton of finger pointing and leaking and blaming, and it is almost always squarely focused on the candidate and the candidate's campaign and team. in this case, what is so interesting, you are certainly seeing some finger pointing and criticism of vice president harris and her campaign team, but you are seeing more, on the whole, of president biden for exactly what speaker emerita pelosi said. depending on who you ask, the original sin was he chose to run for a second term in the first place or that he didn't get out earlier when it was clear that he was showing sort of physical signs of aging in real time. then there is, of course, blame and existential crisis for the democratic party and their brand, which has, when you talk to democrats, they will say, been left in scandals.

there's sort of the discussion we saw after mitt romney lost in 2012 on the republican side of, does there need to be an autopsy? how do the democrats make this a bigger tent and not just speak to sort of the extreme interest groups or far left? despite that to say, plenty of blame to go around. but in this case, a little less than you might expect on the actual nominee and her campaign, although it's certainly there, but on her president, the party, there's just a ton of it at every level. >> peter, there was a lot of agonizing over a really effective transgender commercial that the trump campaign spent more than $100 million on, apparently, in the closing days. and this emphasizing seemed to signal to a lot of people that, you know, democrats were totally focused on transgender, you know, transition and all kinds

of so-called woke issues and cultural issues, when it was not a focus of the administration. you know, had been an endorsement by kamala harris when she was first running for president back in 2019, but it's been a trump administration policy. >> yeah, i think, you know, it's important to pay attention to that. i think that has a very effective attack on the democrats, and i think that we may underestimate just how much of a role that played in, you know, gathering votes for former president trump, president-elect trump. i think the democrats never found an adequate way to respond to it. it's not actually been their priority. it is not something they spent a lot of time talking about. there are issues that affect a whole lot more americans than, you know, women's sports. i don't know how many transgender athletes are actually trying to get into women's sports, but if you watch the trump ads, you'd think it was quite a lot. the democrats never figured out a way to address this issue, to

reassure americans who might find that concerning. i think that's one of the things that, as ashley talked about, will be part of the autopsy or whatever we call this period when people are trying to figure out what went wrong. the culture war is a really important issue for the democrats to think about. >> over the weekend, when we called arizona, that gave donald trump a clean sweep of the seven battlegrounds. it was really a devastating setback for democrats. they still have a glimmer of hope. they say, and we have not called yet the house, because there are some california seats out there. we'll talk about that in a bit. but they also have not -- we have not finally called pennsylvania, even though dave mccormick, the republican, is ahead right now and has declared victory. casey still has outstanding votes in pennsylvania that are still to be counted. peter baker, ashley parker, as we start a consequential week in transition politics.

in 90 seconds, former cia director john berman is joining us to discuss concerns about the future of the spy agencies under mr. trump. it is "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc. might be painful, embarassing, difficult to talk about, and could be peyronie's disease or pd, a real medical condition that urologists can diagnose and have been treating for more than 8 years with xiaflex®, the only fda-approved nonsurgical treatment for appropriate men with pd. along with daily gentle penile stretching and straightening exercises, xiaflex has been proven to help gradually reduce the bend. don't receive if the treatment area involves your urethra; or if you're allergic to any of the ingredients. may cause serious side effects, including: penile fracture or other serious injury during an erection and severe allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis. seek help if you have any of these symptoms. do not have any sexual activity during and for at least 4 weeks after each treatment cycle. sudden back pain reactions and fainting can happen after treatment. tell your doctor if you have a bleeding condition

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agencies who would politicize them. it could jeopardize the nation's closely held secrets. there's also concern about his repeated criticism of chris wray of the fbi, whom he appointed, and the threats are that he'll go after political enemies. joining us now, former cia director john brennan, also serving as president obama's national security adviser for homeland security. good to see you, director brennan. thank you very much for being with us. so there is reporting out of mar-a-lago from our team that kash patel is one of the potential nominees for cia director. what would worry you about a maga loyalist like kash patel, who was blocked from being deputy director of cia by gina haskell, the former cia director, after repeated attempts in the first trump white house? >> andrea, as you know, the cia prides itself on being an apolitical, non-partisan organization that is responsible for providing objective,

apolitical intelligence support to policymakers in the administration and also to congress. it's a question of whether or not the individual who is going to lead the cia in the future is going to have the integrity, as well as the commitment, to those principles that undergird the cia's mission. so i can tell you that there is quite a bit of concern within cia, and i know within fbi and other non-policy organizations, that if you have somebody who is just used as a political tool of donald trump at the helm, there is a real risk, not just to the work of these individuals, but also to the national security of the united states. so, you know, in years past, when richard nixon used the cia inappropriately or the fbi, there were steps taken. congressional committees were formed. i am hoping that our congressional oversight committees, both in the house and the senate, will take their responsibility seriously.

if donald trump puts somebody at the top of the agency and other organizations, it really, i think, could be disastrous for our national security. >> one of the things he suggested over the weekend is not having senate confirmation. there would be no hearings. there would be no oversight. it'd be all recess appointments. >> yeah. well, the problem is that the deputy director of the cia and the deputy director of the fbi are not senate confirmed positions anyway. they're presidential appointees. donald trump could put somebody in a deputy position at cia and fbi and make them acting directors for an extended period of time. they'd have all the authorities and powers of the director. so there is concern. i know that the cia officers who serve overseas around the globe, as well as in headquarters, want to make sure that their mission, their responsibilities are going to continue to be able to be carried out without political interference.

because the last thing we need in this country is a politicized intelligence and law enforcement agencies. this is something that i think is, you know -- it'd undermine our national security in a fundamental, profound, and in a very, i think, immediate way. >> now, i know that our relationship or intelligence sharing with great britain, with the uk, for instance, and the other members of the five is hard wired, especially with the uk. we work so closely. but is there a way to protect the most sensitive secrets from being shared, frankly? could you compartmentalize if you were the brits? do they want to stop sharing everything with the u.s. if there were some of these nominees who were in decisive roles? or is the president-elect himself, who has been notably careless with intelligence in the past, inviting the russian ambassador into the oval office,

posting an iranian site. i'm talking about when he was in office, not just taking classified documents home. >> yeah, our partisan allies around the globe, the intelligence services we work with closely, they take seriously the protection of sources and methods. they want to continue the collaboration and cooperation with the u.s. intelligence agencies, but as you point out, we have somebody in the white house who is careless in terms of how he handles classified information. and the cia and the intelligence community are going to be politicized, i think they'll do their own -- taking their own defensive measures, which is not to give us things for fear it could be, in fact, exploited, manipulated, and used for political purposes. it's worrying on so many fronts. it's worrying in the agencies themselves, as far as our partners. i'm hoping against hope here that donald trump is not going to be putting in place these individuals who are just going

to be political tools of his, because our future security really depends on, again, the integrity, the professionalism, and the objective, apolitical work that they traditionally have done and need to continue to do. >> there are also positions that don't require confirmation. national security adviser, for instance. some of those white house positions and some of the possibilities for secretary of state include ric grenell, who has been very partisan. he worked at the u.n. as a spokesperson under several ambassadors for the u.n. had been our ambassador in germany. what about ric grenell for secretary of state? he was a special envoy in serbia, and he has vast business investments with, um, with jared kushner, as well, in these foreign countries. >> well, i think ric grenell has demonstrated that he is simply a

trump loyalist and will do anything that trump and the maga world want. it is very unfortunate. i was the director of cia when donald trump was elected in 2016. i was going through the halls telling my workforce that their work is critically important and that donald trump and his advisors and team will recognize it and will not abuse the great capabilities that they have. and i believe that donald trump is going to rise to the occasion and grow into the job of the presidency. unfortunately, his first term, that didn't come true. i guess i'm hoping against hope here that he will, in fact, grow into it, but there's real concerns. >> john brennan, former director of cia, thank you very much. >> thanks, andrea. up next, the race to replace mitch mcconnell as senate republican leader heating up. you're watching "andrea mitchell reports." this is msnbc. the market's closed. futures don't sleep in the after hours, bro. dad, is mommy a “finance bro?” she switched careers to make money for your weddings.

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seats remain uncalled, meaning control of the house of representatives is up for grabs, depending on several california districts still being counted. republicans are hoping to keep it under their control after taking control of the senate last week with two races still not called by nbc news. in arizona, democrat gallego leads republican kari lake, which remains too early to call. in pennsylvania, republican david mccormick leads incumbent

democratic senator bob casey, with many ballots still not yet counted. those seats could be key in picking a new senate leader. the secret vote for that is scheduled for wednesday morning. south dakota senator john thune, texas senator john cornyn, and florida senator rick scott all in the running to be the successor. trump writing on truth social, anyone running to be the next majority leader should agree out front to make him make recess appointments to his cabinet, bypassing senate confirmation. joining me now is nbc news capitol hill correspondent ryan nobles. ryan, that would be an enormous change. how might that affect the senate leader race, which is supposed to be voted on in secret ballot wednesday morning? >> reporter: yeah, and this is something that goes back to the obama administration, where there was a back and forth between the senate leaders and the white house over recess appointments. originally, allowed for a three-day recess in order for

the president to appoint someone to his cabinet for at least a two-year period. the supreme court ruled it had to be at least ten days. there would be to be negotiating around allowing recess appointments. more than anything, it'd mean the incoming senate majority leader would have to agree with that. that'd mean the senate would be giving back a very important power that they have to the executive branch, and that is the confirmation power. that is something that the senate prizes. it is something they feel is very important. and so, you know, it does give us an indication of how heavy handed donald trump wants to be with this senate, that he believes he has a lot of power and authority over. that could play out in this senate leadership race, which as you rightly point out, is scheduled for wednesday on a secret ballot. rick scott, the florida senator right now, making an aggressive push with the maga world to be the maga candidate in this race. he has the support of a number of conservative influencers and a few of the most conservative members of the senate have come out publicly and said they're

going to support him. but that may not be enough. john thune and john cornyn are both well respected members of the republican legislature and in the senate. they're by no means liberal. they're very conservative in their viewpoint, but neither of them have been hard core donald trump supporters from the very beginning. they certainly support him. they've been supportive of his presidential campaign, but they have kept him at an arm's length, which to a certain degree, is why they are not guaranteed to win this race. now, donald trump could decide who wins this race tomorrow if he came out publicly and said he supports a particular candidate. at this point, he has not made that decision. he's decided to stay away from the race and allow these senators to make this decision on their own. because it is a secret ballot, andrea, it's difficult to determine who has the edge, but right now, we could find out more about it in the next two days when the senators get back here to washington tomorrow. >> really consequential decision indeed. ryan nobles, thank you.

with control of the house still undecided, pending that vote, the vote count in several california districts, donald trump and the republican party already are making major inroads into traditionally democratic strongholds, including new york and new jersey. already, the garden state swung in trump's favor by 11 points compared to 2020, with one of the most significant shifts seen in northern county of passaic. josh gottheimer won re-election despite trump's gains. he serves on the intelligence committee, as well. congressman, great to see you. congratulations on your re-election. >> thanks for having me. >> as tip o'neill said famously, all politics is local. you obviously have a lot of local support in your district. you represent a swing district, though. were you surprised by donald trump's gains in a blue state like new jersey? >> of course. obviously, a tough night.

listen, i was very grateful for the huge support that my constituents came out for me for. you know, looks like kamala harris will win my district by about a point. we won it by 12. grateful for the outpouring of support. listen, you know, these numbers are surprising, but our focus, what i focused on since i ran in 2016 hasn't shifted. we have to make sure we do everything we can, and as my lawn signs say, lower taxes, jersey values. we have to keep life affordable for folks and let them know we're the party that focuses on helping hard-working, middle-class families with everything from child care costs to fighting our taxes down, lower health care costs. these are the issues i've talked a lot to my families about over the years that i represent. >> do you think that if president biden had dropped out earlier, and/or there had been

an open primary, that might have helped? that's something nancy pelosi suggested to "the new york times" this weekend. >> i'll leave that to folks like you to armchair. all i know is, you know, what i believe and what i talk to folks about resonates. which is, you have to fight for jersey values, standing strong for reproductive freedom and clean air and clean water, and doing everything we can to also get their costs down and make that more affordable for them. whether talking about lower taxes or lower grocery prices or, of course, lower child care costs. you know, jersey has extensive child care costs, and one of the things i've been focused on and proud to accomplish is expanding the child tax credit and doing things like that that show that, you know, we look out for people's pocketbooks. >> as a member of the problem solvers' caucus, what changes do you want to see from the democratic party, assuming it'll continue in the minority, depending on what happens in

california? >> i'm still holding out hope for california. but regardless, it is going to be a narrowly divided congress, right? we know that. whether they have a few seats ahead or we have a few seats ahead, we'll need to work together to govern in the house and, if you look at the past congress, every major piece of legislation, talking about budgets or foreign aid, all came together through democrats or republicans sitting down at the table and working it out together. problem solvers caucus, democrats and republicans will have to sit together and work together again to make sure we govern the country. that's our job, right? get things done for them. we fight for folks. we go to washington willing to work together and put the country first. that's what people really want us to do. >> one of the committees that always tried to work together, didn't for a while during the first trump years, is the intelligence committee. certainly on the senate side, they've been working very closely together, real partnership, marco rubio and mark warner, the democrat.

what are your concerns about the intelligence committee and about intelligence agencies depending on who gets appointed head of cia and head of dni? >> nothing partisan about the intelligence community. we've got the best men and women protecting us at home and around the world. >> absolutely. >> grateful for their service. and our committee, by the way, you know, it's all underground. there's no cameras. what happens is we put the country first. people work together, democrats and republicans. >> there was a time when devin nunes was the ranking and it was not that way. >> before that. yes, i was not there then. >> he was one of the top potential appointees to one of these positions. >> yeah, listen, i hope in the end, as i'm sure you'd agree, and i know you do, that we cannot allow the intelligence community or any of these committees to become places for partisanship. we've got to protect our national security and our

interest in the world, and we do that every day on the committee. the intelligence committee, the best people protecting us. i'm very grayful for their service. we've got to make sure we don't let partisanship creep back into any that. >> supposed to be checks and balances. that was what the founders imagined. what if -- and i know it is not your body -- but what if the senate gives up control over confirmations, as was suggested? >> well, you pointed it out, right? there's got to be checks and balances. article i, i believe strongly in that in the constitution. we have our responsibility. the same thing with the intelligence committee, it's our responsibility. the checks and balances that our founders and all our framers put in place are essential to making sure that we keep our country running and protected and put our freedom and democracy always first above any kind of partnership. yes, there will be many of us who stand strong and focused on that, watching it carefully in

the coming weeks and months. >> congressman josh gottheimer, thank you, sir. >> thanks for having me. up next, will president trump politicize the cia and the justice department, and how secure will the nation's secrets be in the new administration? that's next. you're watching "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc. vyvgart hytrulo, a subcutaneous injection that takes about 30 to 90 seconds. for one thing, could it mean more time for you? vyvgart hytrulo can improve daily abilities and reduce muscle weakness with a treatment plan that's personalized to you. do not use vyvgart hytrulo if you have a serious allergy to any of its ingredients. it can cause serious allergic reactions like trouble breathing and decrease in blood pressure leading to fainting and allergic reactions such as rashes, swelling under the skin, shortness of breath, and hives. the most common side effects are respiratory and urinary tract infections, headache, and injection site reactions.

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jo. the massive understating for the clearance of appointees. president-elect trump's advisors are requesting to bypass the vetting process, replacing it by using private firms. it'd give appointees immediate access to classified secrets as soon as donald trump takes office. joining me now is greg brouwer, former fbi assistant director, former legislative council at the department of justice. greg, good to see you. >> great to see you, thank you.

>> been a little busy maybe. >> yes, it's been an interesting week. >> private security firms doing clearances instead of the fbi. there were a lot of controversies over clearances in the first trump administration. for instance, jared kushner never got top secret clearance. that was blocked by the then cia director, gina haskell, who was concerned, apparently, about a lot of foreign investments. possible conflicts of interest. that was very upsetting to his father-in-law, the president of the united states, so it didn't help the relationship between the cia and the president. there were other instances of this, where security clearances became a problem. what is the issue here? >> let me start by saying this is within the power of any president to determine exactly how he thinks this should be done. >> presidents can declassify things. >> declassify, can decide who

gets clearances, exactly how, and at what level. there is some law around this, both in terms of statute and executive order. but the end of the day, the president can aggregate that and decide for himself how this should be done. there is, and i should say somewhat of a practice of the tradition of having private security firms supplement some of the background investigation work that the fbi and other agencies do for incoming appointees and for security clearances. but to take it away from the fbi entirely would be unprecedented. that's been in place. there is an mou between the -- >> memorandum of understanding. >> that's for appointees, specifically. we're talking about two things, backgrounds for appointees and would-be cabinet officials, judicial nominees, and the backgrounds for security clearances. the fbi played a role in both those traditionalily, so to change that would be big.

some republican senators might have something to say about that and will be part of this discussion. >> they would have something to say about it if they did hearings and did confirmations. there's another step here, which would be to have recess appointments where people could be made deputies, and as a recess appointment, could be the acting director. >> right. >> with all the powers of the director. >> every new president is eager to get his new people into place, hit the ground running with the new administration, but there traditionally has been a process for that. the senate, as you know, plays an important role in it. again, the president has a lot of power in this regard, especially with the majority of senators on his side. i suspect there will be robust discussions with the senate leadership and the president-elect himself about how this should be done. >> what about the justice department being non-political? the threats during the campaign to go after political enemies with prosecutions.

>> that has been a tradition, as you mentioned, and an important one, i think. again, i think there are a number of senators who believe strongly in that tradition. and it is important for a lot of, i think, obvious reasons. there has been some campaign rhetoric about that issue. i'd like to think that we should give the benefit of the doubt in this regard and see how this new administration handles it. for all the reasons, there has been a strong, independent nature with respect to doj and the fbi, i think it is likely it'll continue. it should continue. but we'll see. >> and the fbi director, chris wray, there's been a lot of criticism from donald trump in the past of chris wray. he appointed him. >> right. >> the fbi deliberately was given a ten-year term so that person would not be subject to political pressure, depending on who gets elected, which party and which president. >> that's right. >> but it's still possible to

fire chris wray because we know that james comey was fired by donald trump. >> that's right. it is a ten-year term, and it was put into place exactly for the reasons you articulated, but it, nevertheless, is within the power of the president to make a change. with respect to the fbi director, chris wray is -- i've wronged closely with him. he is a dedicated public servant. i think he's done a very good job as fbi director. but the president-elect has said the things he has said, and it is within his power to make a change. he'd be well-advised to keep director wray in position because it is a hard job to learn. continuity would be good. >> a lot to look forward to or to anticipate, let's say. >> indeed. >> thank you very much. >> thank you. >> good to see you. up next, a potentially radical change to federal departments and their employees could be coming next year. this is "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc.

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don't take breztri more than prescribed. breztri may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur. ask your doctor about breztri. thousands of federal employees' jobs could be on the line if president-elect trump carries out a promise to remove civil service protections for many of the veteran workers. mr. trump proposed reinstituting a new category schedule f that he did propose the first time under an executive order late last term. it never took effect. donald trump could now overhaul the federal workforce by purging civil servants. career experts in their line of

work and replacing them with political supporters. joining me now is max steyer, president and ceo of partnership or public service. max, yours is a nonpartisan group that focuses on government service. >> yes, we are a nonpartisan, nonprofit organization. better government is stronger democracy is our motto. >> tell me first what would be the impact of schedule f, if it is implicated -- instituted. >> so we would lose an incredible asset for the american people, which is the very best civil servants that are solving all kinds of problems in a very, very dangerous world. our government is based on the notion that civil servants are there to follow the policy lead of the political appointees, but ultimately that their loyalty is to the rule of law and the constitution of the united states, and that would be put at jeopardy. >> well, how do you answer donald trump's concerns about, quote, the deep state? >> so i think that there's no question that we need a government of civil servants

that are responsive to the elected leaders and in this case president-elect donald trump, but the reality is that we live in a system of laws and the constitution and we don't have a king and that's why the system was designed in the way it was. the last time we had a system that really was defined by something like schedule f, where civil servants are there at will to the political appointees is when we had the spoil system of the 19th century. i think the immediate response to president-elect trump is that if he wants more responsive civil servants, he can get that, he can modernize our government, but what is being proposed today would blow it up and it would hurt not just his administration, but it would hurt all of america. >> this would include experts in agriculture, experts at the fda, people in the state department who understand the intricacies of the visa process. >> absolutely. >> or other policies. >> it is a complex world with many, many challenges. it's dangerous. you want expert people who are able to provide good advice,

good facts to the decision-makers that are ultimately the political appointees. so really actually strengthening the system, ensuring that you have better talent that is still apolitical and expert is what we should be driving towards. what we're talking about schedule f and it does not only have to be schedule f, there are many other ways you could undermine the civil service, would give us the opposite of what is, in fact, desired. you would have less responsive government, worse government, you would have government that would be rife with cronyism, corruption and incompetence. i don't think any of us should want that and the policy choices around the way we structure our government that are proposed right now would lead in the wrong direction not the right one. >> i'm told by my sources that people in the cia feel particularly vulnerable to this. >> absolutely. i think it's true, though, in the intelligence community, it's true at the department of justice, it's true across the government. the reality is civil servants are there in order to serve the public, they want to do their very best by the public.

we are in a democracy that means when we have an election like we just had we get new leaders that decide what direction the new government goes in, but a concept of the government for the people rather than for a personal private agenda is fundamental to i think the dna of all civil servants. they want to serve the political appointees within the constraints of the law and the constitution. >> what concerns would you have about business investments overseas and elsewhere? >> well -- >> by some of the people -- i mean, the whole issue of elon musk being a white house adviser with one of the biggest contractors in government, but also people who are investing in real estate projects overseas. >> so i think what you're describing is a through line through all of these issues. when you look at individuals who are coming into government, they're supposed to clear their potential financial conflicts so that they are looking out, again, for the public and not their own private interest. that's the way we have always run government. for at least the last 140 years. and it's what it should be. if you see somebody like an elon

musk who obviously has vast private sector interests, you need to ensure that whatever engagement he has with public sector decisions creates a wall and distance between those private interests and those public concerns. >> this would include some of the potential nominees for treasury, for securities and exchange commission, all these agencies. these regulatory agencies would really be -- >> absolutely. it's not just the career civil service. we need to make sure that the political appointees are also there. they swear the same oath of service as the career civil servants and that's what we need. >> max steyer, thank you so much. >> thank you. and that does it for this edition of "andrea mitchell reports." follow the show on social media @mitchellreports. you can rewatch highlights from the show on youtube, just go to msnbc.com/andrea. "chris jansing reports" starts after a short break. "chris jansing reports" starts after a short break. the tradeo? with ubrelvy, there's another option. ubrelvy works fast, most have migraine pain relief within 2 hours. you can treat it anytime, anywhere,

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