dragging them over to you you're going to lose. >> what are you thinking about on this veterans day. >> there's hundreds and thousands of people outside right now, i had to navigate the traffic to get in here. there's one day when people can come together as americans and honor the values we hold dear and those veterans and values will be more important in the next couple of months more than ever before. >> that is for another time. paul, thank you so much and thank you for your service, especially today. so happy you made it in. >> thank you. >> it was a close call getting in here with that parade outside. that is going to do it for me today on this monday, veterans day, "deadline: white house" starts right now. ♪♪ ♪♪ hi, everyone. happy monday. 4:00 in new york. the scale of donald trump's victory in the 2024 election is coming into fuller focus. breaking over the weekend trump is projected to be the winner in arizona completing a complete

sweep of all seven battleground states. combine that with control of the senate, republicans are projected to hold at least 52 seats. quite possibly control of the house which has not been called yet, but republicans are currently just five seats short of the majority there. donald trump is now likely to return to washington with a trifecta, to say nothing of the 6-3 conservative majority in the third branch of government. we are of course talking about the supreme court. giving trump potentially unprecedented grip on all the levers of political power. all of which makes one of his first announcements as president-elect puzzling. trump is demanding that whoever takes the reins of the gop caucus in the senate agree to allow recess appointments to his cabinet. in other words, to allow donald trump to bypass senate confirmation, again, a senate controlled by republicans, of all of his picks. that's despite the fact that

trump likely has a commanding majority for approval of any of his nominations. now, on the topic of recess appointments, cnn reports this, quote, recess appointments were once controversial. last ditch efforts for presidents to install their nominees after facing long confirmation odds in the senate. president george w. bush appointed john bolton as u.s. ambassador to the united nations via a recess appointment, for example. as it was unlikely he would have made it through the senate. president obama's attempt to use recess appointment power wound up at the supreme court. the supreme court ruled against president obama and in favor of the gop-led senate. they said obama's appointments were unconstitutional. just begs the question this morning, right, why would such a strong, powerful president demand the use of such a weak tool? used by weak presidents? as for the three contenders to be the senate majority leader, one, rick scott, outright

endorsed the idea of allowing trump to bypass the powers of their own chamber. in doing so he earned the support of trump ally elon musk in his own race. the competition, john thune and john cornyn refuse to rule out letting a president of their own party skip them and their body and use recess appointments instead. so the question is why does trump want to use recess appointments, and what kind of cabinet is he doesn't think he can get of wass are floated and his administration starts to take shape trump announced this morning that tom homan will be a border czar. "washington post" reports this, a border czar role does not require senate confirmation. homan stepped down from the administration in frustration

when the white house failed to move his nomination to be i.c.e. director towards senate confirmation. he became a fox news analyst on immigration and border issues instead. j.d. vance today confirmed the cnn report that another immigration hardliner stephen miller will be returning to the white house as deputy chief of staff for policy. trump's demand in the wake of his massive victory for unchecked power as he fills out his administration and why he's doing it this way. thaesz where we start today with some of our favorite reporters and friends. out west in west palm beach nbc news correspondent vaughn hillyard joins us, also joining us msnbc columnist and contributor charlie sykes is here, and former democratic senator, msnbc political analyst, claire mccaskill is here. claire, first just add anything i may have left out about why presidents use recess appointments. i mean, the history i offered was one that i was around for, george w. bush was in probably the weakest standing of his

presidency and john bolton was not a popular pick, even in his own party, so it was a way to get someone there for a shorter period of time. why would trump after such a commanding victory use a tool most closely associated with weakness in the president making these picks? >> you've got me. i can't figure it out. unless -- i mean, it's very weird that he would -- his opening salvo would be i'm going to pick people that are so bad my own party won't support them. which is essentially what he's saying. he's going to have a minimum of 52 senators, maybe he's going to pick such crazy people he thinks he can't get lisa murkowski and susan collins and maybe one or two others. maybe he wants to go so outside the norm that he doesn't think the constitution should apply to him. but the supreme court has spoken on this.

recess appointments are stopgap for limited periods of time. if he has some idea he can just blow up the constitution over the role of confirmation and advice and consent, he is not talking to real lawyers, which of course he has a habit of doing. >> vaughn hillyard, what is your understanding of why trump with this commanding victory on tuesday, there is no way to describe it as anything less than that, is using a tool, again, often turned to by presidents in weak political standing? >> reporter: let's be very clear, structurally there are still some senators that voted to convict him in the aftermath of the january 6 attack. people like susan collins and lisa murkowski, bill cassidy, they are still in the u.s. senate, and in the scenario that you add on another senator or two who are resistant to some of the picks who he believes are best positioned to implement the policy that he wants to enact in these department and agencies, then it would be beneficial for

him in order to enact the policies he wants to enact to bypass at the confirmation process. and this by guaranteeing that he has a senate majority leader who if he desires and wants to go that route is willing to and ensures while this is still an open process between the likes of john thune and a john cornyn and a rick scott, well, it's going to be advantageous for him power wise to make sure that he gets somebody in that senate majority leader position who is not an inhibitor to his ability to go and use washington in the four years that he has to his advantage and that, i think, is why when you're hearing individuals like kash patel who met resistance among some, let's be very clear, conservatives from donald trump's first administration to after four years donald trump as he has eyed how he would make a second administration look if he wants to get people like kash patel in these positions here it would be

advantageous for him to find whatever path that it would take to be able to do that. >> charlie sykes, vaughan's reporting is always 100% correct, but it requires us to pull another layer off the onion. i mean, trump won the popular vote. trump has a mandate to do whatever he wants. trump just has to be one inch shy of his worst impulses and he soars into washington really with a mandate. i mean, i think it reveals a deeper phenomena, i think, that, one, he still doesn't really understand power in washington, to turn to this weak leader tool. that's what the recess appointment s it is -- again, and i have worked for people who have had to use it but only when their approval ratings were at the low point of bush's presidency, it was after reelection, it was a lame duck and he was struggling to get his appointees through, that's when he used it. again, president obama at a point where he couldn't -- he

couldn't get people through any other way -- i mean, it is not a tool used in a position of strength. what does it say to you that this is how he wants to bring his first batch of cabinet members into washington? >> well, three things. first of all, i mean, this is his first shot across the bow of any idea of checks and balances. number two, he is demanding absolute loyalty from the u.s. senate, as opposed to thinking of congress as a co-equal branch of government. you know, he is basically saying, look, here is my loyalty test. i want you to take a knee for me even before i take office and of course rick scott was the first guy to actually assume that position. and then number three, which you've been discussing, is that despite his victory he apparently would like to install people in the cabinet who are perhaps too extreme even for the republican party. i mean, i think the default position we ought to have here,

nicolle, is that the republican party will always disappoint us and will always cave in. but having said that he obviously has some concerns about what would happen if he appointed rick grenell to a top position or robert f. kennedy jr. to his cabinet as some kind of a health -- not a health czar but hhs. so he obviously is thinking that there are some people who are too toxic even for a republican majority, but i do think the most interesting thing here is how will the senate republicans react to this? because the power of advice and consent is one of the constitution's most important functions, to say that this is one of the key powers of the u.s. senate, they are not just potted plants, they do not work for the president. for the republican senate to come in and preemptively surrender would be a stunning dereliction of duty, but also

just an indication that they no longer take their co-equal branch of government position seriously. so i think that donald trump is basically saying i want to have unitary control over all government, he is demanding absolute loyalty and he is signaling that he is going to -- he is going to make appointments that will be too toxic to get through a 53-vote republican majority senate. >> i'm never in disagreement with you, charlie sykes, but, i mean, i think that's offensive to potted plants. this is a senate, republican -- and we should say their names. this is a group of men and women, mitch mcconnell didn't have the courage to vote for trump's impeachment but he referred him to merrick garland to deal with. >> right. >> i mean, there is nothing that they won't go along with, they just proved that to us. >> that's right. that's why i said -- yeah. >> what opposition -- rfk jr. and ric grenell are out in the open, i don't think they would

have any problem being confirmed by a republican senate. do you think there's something else? is there a layer behind that? >> well, i think the layer behind it is that donald trump is coming in and he is saying that he wants absolute control over both the house and the senate and this is the loyalty test. you're seeing it play out in maga world. that if you do not immediately bow -- you know, take the knee for donald trump, you're going to have, you know, the various flying monkeys attack you. it is interesting, by the way, the rule that elon musk is playing in all of this, kind of the shadow president, this billionaire bromance that's going on i think is going to be one of the great stories of over the next few months if not the next few years, but this is -- this is kind of the litmus test. you are now seeing can we break the senate? i mean, i do think that we need to take a step back and understand that this is not just one among many constitutional norms.

we've seen so many shattered, we've seen so many surrendered. but for the united states senate to basically say, yeah, that whole advice and consent thing, we're willing to give that up for donald trump, would be breathtaking, but it would be an indication of what's coming. and, again, you know, going back to what we have talked about for the last eight years, i think that, you know, if we keep asking the question when will republicans draw the line? when will republicans stand up to donald trump? the answer, i think, you and i both know, nicolle, is never. it's not going to happen. do not expect them to stand even when it comes to one of their core constitutional powers and functions. >> and -- >> by the way, the founding fathers never imagined that the senate would do something like that. >> i mean, vaughn hillyard, does the trump side see any benefit to having the strength and the impermature of senate nominees or are they all in on bypassing something that would give them

appointees that could stay the whole time if trump -- i mean, what is their rationale? >> reporter: i think that we saw multiple acting cabinet and administration officials serve in his first administration. so, no, to answer your question, we saw a willingness to rely on individuals working in acting capacities back in 2019 and 2020 from chad wolf who was the homeland secretary to chris miller who was working as a pentagon secretary in the aftermath of the 2020 election. of course, ric grenell had been working as the acting director of national intelligence. and there is a lot of power in serving in either an acting capacity or serving as somebody who is a deputy, a deputy national security adviser because there's no current national security adviser elevated to that sort of power that the trump administration, again, from the first -- legally there is really no barriers at

this point to the capacity and the power to which individuals in those roles when they are in those roles they're able to serve. of course, that is where some of the conversation around the potential use of an acting attorney general has come up for the first several months of his administration. i had sources that i was talking to the last several months who suggested that the acting attorney general, for example, without senate confirmation could move forward with potential indictments or image of grand juries and then indictments in localities. so if they desired. i think that that is where you see a trump administration that wants to be unencumbered by what is they say an executive branch that has become full of road blocks by career federal workers who stay in these roles from transition to transition and that is where they have been eager to -- and j.d. vance has been the one openly talking about the need to in his own words in 2021 fire 95% of the civil workforce to install a

trump loyal or maga loyal individuals. so i think that this is only an extension of it that they are not eager to have a senate majority, even a republican senate majority, that tries to hold them back from implementing what they want to get out of these departments and agencies and what they say was a mandate that was handed down by the voters. they say it's not up to a couple senators like a couple years ago to be the road blocks to that change. >> claire, it's just amazing that they are the ones seeing ghosts and shadows, right? there are no road blocks. he swept every battleground state. he increased his margins in new york and california. trump is riding into washington whether anyone -- i mean, just the political reality is that he is politically as dominant and strong as he has ever been and that he's using these sort of tin can autocracy tools is to me still iinexplicable.

>> well, let me give you another perspective on this. he is playing some serious games behind the curtain around the senate leadership race. we have three men running to be leader of the senate, to take mitch mcconnell's place, and make no mistake about it, mitch mcconnell and donald trump were not besties. they never got along. they never saw eye to eye. mcconnell kind of put up with him and didn't ever challenge him openly like he should have and i think trump talked trash about mcconnell behind his back constantly and said horrible things about his wife, mcconnell's wife. so what he's trying to do right now is judge whether or not he should openly jump in this senate majority race. whether he should back rick scott who is going to do whatever he wants lavish li, he is going to be on bended knee and crawl on the ground like a snake if trump wants him to but he's not very popular in the

caucus. trump is going to figure out, one, who is going to win, two is never going to give me trouble so i don't have a mcconnell issue for the next four years. i think that's the context in which he's bringing up senate rules. that's the context that he's asking these candidates what would you do if i did recess appointments. it will be interesting to see how this plays out but remember one thing, nicolle, the ballot for majority floor leader of the republican party, the guy who is going to run the place, is by secret ballot. trump will never know how people voted. and i have a feeling there's going to be some senators that aren't going to want to be bullied and are going to want to protect the role of the united states -- the role of the united states senate as set out in the united states constitution. >> what happens when trump wants to get rid of the filibuster, claire? >> well, that will be very interesting. in fact, i've been talking to senators about the blue slip. we have a number of judicial vacancies around the country in states where there's two republican senators including mine and they purposely refused

to approve anyone waiting for this moment so they could build maga courts. you won't have to go to one district in texas to have your every wish granted by a maga judge. it will be interesting because lindsey has promised a bunch of people that he would not do away with the blue slip and of course they have all promised they would not do away with the filibuster but tbd. that's what i am sleepless about right now is if they blow up the filibuster and what that means to this country. >> no one is going anywhere. still ahead for us donald trump ran and won on promising to make things less costly. why expert after expert after expert is warning about trump's plan for the economy and why consumers should maybe not hold their breath for any of those promises to come to pass. and later in the broadcast with president-elect donald trump's cabinet coming into focus, a closer look at how u.s. national security and intelligence agencies could be

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so you are carrying out a targeted enforcement operation, grandma is in the house, she's undocumented. does she get arrested, too? >> it depends. let the judge decide. we're going to remove people that a judge has already deported. >> is there a way to carry out mass deportation without separating families? >> of course there is. families can be deported together. we're back with vaughan, charlie and claire. vaughan, another bypassing of senate confirmation, the person

in charge of that will be that individual, mr. homan. why a czar post for that? is it temporary? do you think they are going to be done quickly? >> reporter: right. he is now the third one who has been named in a czar capacity or what i should say potentially a czar capacity. we have reporting that doug burgum is going to take on a role of energy czar and that robert f. kennedy jr. directly told me that he could see himself serving in the white house not as hhs secretary necessarily or head of any of the agencies but in the administration, in the white house, as a, quote, white house health czar. again, as you said, those would not be confirmable positions and it is not clear exactly what kind of power those czars would be able to wield and in the sake of tom homan he's been there before. he was the acting director of i.c.e. as our friend and colleague

jacob soboroff reported so deeply and separated that he was at the forefront of the zero tolerance family separation policy that the dhs has said today there's still more than 1,300 kids that are separated from their families because of the policy. tom homan he has not stepped away from that, he has said there needs to be a zero tolerance policy towards immigration coming into the united states in order to cut down the migration numbers. and that is where you see him filling this need and this desire to work with the localities to try to implement what this mass deportation system that donald trump, we should be clear, proposed eight years ago but didn't implement but now donald trump feels like he has an ally in there who understands the system and administration and is ready to use his position and power not as a confirmable position but the border czar in order to do that. >> charlie sykes, the number that trump ran on deporting and as jacob was at the convention

carrying the signs and vaughan, mass deportations was 15 to 20 million. jim jordan let it slip yesterday that the number could be closer to 1.3 million. let me play that for you in his own words. >> some people say let's say one of these people is living in their apartment complex, is the military going to come in? is it the local law enforcement? how is it actually physically going to work? >> the trump administration, the department of homeland security, will work with local law enforcement and we will focus on the people who -- 1.3 million have already been in front of a judge and said, no, you are not entitled to stay here, you have to be removed. they have had their due process, they have had the whole process play out. >> let's move on beyond that population. noncriminals. people who are in the country who are not legal citizens, those who have not committed crimes. >> we're starting with the criminal element and the 1.3. >> after that. >> we will start there and then go from that point, but, again,

this was clear in the election. this was one of the top issues. president trump had the greatest political come back in history, won 30 states, won all 7 swing states, won the popular vote, won an electoral college landslide. this was one of the big issues. >> i'm not disagreeing with that. i'm asking how it will work. >> they told him in his first term he couldn't do certain things. goe the them done. i'm convinced he will get them done but i also am convinced he will start with the criminal element. >> ultimately will it be 15 to 20 million as he promised on the campaign trail? >> we will see. >> he's not even been inaugurated yet and already the promise to remove 15 to 20 million people is we'll see. what do you think is going on here? >> well, you know, you used the word mandate before and clearly, you know, he has a mandate to do a lot of things b that you clip

shows the limits of this mandate. you have millions of americans who think that, okay, if you have committed a crime you get deported, not tremendously controversial, but dana bash was pressing him, well, what about the other 10 million people? and i'm not sure that he has a mandate for this. there's a lot of things that donald trump ran on that i think people did not take either seriously or literally, and if he tries to implement them -- i mean, if you come in -- if you come in, you know, your first week in office and robert f. kennedy issues orders, you know, on vaccines or fluoridation or if people minute to realize that massive tariffs will raise the prices of everything they buy at walmart and if they begin to see stories of grandmas being separated from their kids because of mass deportation, i wonder about whether or not that was what voters really understood? now, they should have. donald trump was very clear what he was going to do, but i think you saw jim jordan squirming.

he's claiming that there is this massive mandate, but when he's pressed on exactly what -- you know, what are you promising? what will you do? did you notice how he refused to answer that question? i think this is one of the central questions. you know, in terms of what could possibly go wrong? if, in fact, we actually see the attempt to expel 10 million human beings from this country, i'm not sure that voters fully understood what that would improve and the impact of it and the humanitarian disaster that would be unfolding in front of our eyes. >> i mean, claire, or just to put it back into terms that trump world seems to appreciate, economic collapse. i mean, the economic collapse of moving 11 to 20 million people out of this country to, i don't know, somewhere else and how do you move them? do they go by rail? do they go by bus? do they go by plane? i mean, abbott and desantis had

some fun flying a couple dozen folks around and busing, but 11 to 20 million people is a lot of human beings. what do you think? >> well, first -- yeah, it's very expensive. secondly, you're going to be taking resources from law enforcement and or our military that has a job to do in terms of protecting -- training and protecting our country. and if you take all the resources of the border patrol and i.c.e. to do internal domestic arrests, then who is on the border? so it's really -- really a problem. do you know what, nicolle, i was thinking about this this morning as i was looking at what we were going to talk about today. this show and others like it on this network are going to have an opportunity to expose some things. they're going to start doing workplace raids before and what i look forward to doing and talking to you about are the employers in those raids. because in the past when there

have been workplace raids they have rounded up people that didn't have appropriate documentation and they have, in fact, removed them from the work site and taken them and putting them on the process for deportation. but invariably the people who hired them were never held accountable. and you can't do that. you can't let someone who knowingly is employing a bucketful of folks who aren't properly documented in this country, you can't let the employers skate free while he has been enjoying probably cheaper than he should be paying labor for his given enterprise. so there's going to be farmers in this country, there's going to be a lot of manufacturing in this country, there's going to be a lot of hospitality, small hotel and motel owners, restaurant owners that are going to have to be arrested if this is going to be done fairly and just imagine how controversial that's going to become. >> vaughn hillyard, i will give you a quick last word.

>> reporter: is that me, nicolle? >> yeah. >> >> reporter: i'm glad that you brought this up. apologies there. one place that we are going to have to look at is my hometown of phoenix, maricopa county. after the transition i know there is a sheriff who was just elected there who is a long time deputy to sheriff joe arpaio who was the man behind -- he called crime suppression sweeps but it was to go in particularly brown communities and do these sweeps and do these business busters where claire is talking about. this is going to be one of those moments here where for the last several -- about the last decade there's been a democrat who has been the sheriff in maricopa county and most of the major cities in america have democrats who have been at the helm, their share riffs in police offices but now, for example, in maricopa county donald trump may have somebody in sheridan who may be an equal and willing partner to go through with some of that federal law enforcement at the local level. >> i think sheriff arpaio during

this awful circle was the first pardon issued during president's presidency. i think it was on the eve of a hurricane. we've learned that history doesn't repeat itself but does often echo. thank you, vaughan, for your reports from palm beach. charlie and claire, stick around for the hour. next for us, he's called it a beautiful word, the word tariffs. why many economists don't agree and are sounding the alarm bells about them, tariffs, and about his agenda more broadly. we will look at just who could feel the pain from all of trump's economic promises. that's next. ll of trump's economic promises. that's next. meet the traveling trio. the thrill seeker. the soul searcher. and - ahoy! it's the explorer! each helping to protect their money with chase. woah, a lost card isn't keeping this thrill seeker down. lost her card, not the vibe. the soul searcher, is finding his identity, and helping to protect it. hey! oh yeah, the explorer! she's looking to dive deeper... all while chase looks out for her. because these friends have chase.

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helps me get the full benefits of magnesium. qunol. the brand i trust. it's not exactly like waving a magic wand. donald trump can't just snap his fingers and instantly make life more affordable, unfortunately. no, despite dire warnings from economists the world over, trump's primary tool that he said he's going to use will be tariffs. particularly on imports from one country in particular, china. in short, that's the setting, that's the backdrop for what will almost certainly escalate into a trade war between the two largest economies on earth. "the new york times" today on its front page breathes new life into what is right now top of mind in state of play between the two global super powers and while it's true that china's economy has struggled lately,

quote, complicating factors beneath that widely shared assessment may strengthen china's ability to endure whatever measures the incoming trump administration may have in store. joining me at the table to explain all of this to me, anchor of msnbc's the 11th hour, nbc news senior business analyst steph ruhle is back. charlie and claire are still here. so the overriding issues, this thing that democrats -- i guess two things. and i love this analysis, i think david french writes about it, that we spend all our time -- if elections are curling, we spend all the time talking about the guys with the brooms. the things that really change -- i think it's -- is the stone but the two big stones are a very unpopular accomplished incumbent president, an economic rage/terror, right? i think it's beyond anxiety. people are struggling. and they're enraged by it. enraged that going to the grocery store doesn't mean they

can put anything they want in the court. it is stressful to afford dinner, full stop. >> it is the feeling of unfairness. >> right. rage. >> that spills into how people feel about the migrant crisis where they say i can't afford my life and they're listening to media or certain stories and they're saying migrants are getting housing, getting a debit card, getting a phone. when you put all of these things together the rage only stacks higher and higher. >> enter the tariff. does that help or hurt? >> i wish it was that easy. right? there's not a tariffs -- tariffs aren't great. we do have some tariffs in place right now, joe biden has implemented them and there is this overwhelming feeling we would like to bring manufacturing back to the united states but it's what of a fallacy. decades ago, nicolle, 40% of the u.s. economy came from manufacturing here. it is now less than 10%. it does not matter who is elected into the white house, nothing is going to happen in the short term that that less than 10 brs is going to shoot up to 40. donald trump has this idea and it works at rallies, we're going

to make the other guys pay. it doesn't work that way. and even u.s. companies now that manufacture in china, what are they doing? they're not necessarily thinking about i'm going to bring those jobs back here, they're thinking maybe not china, maybe we will go to brazil or guam. >> they're also stockpiling their warehouses with inventory. will the price of everything at walmart go up or down? >> it will because that's how it works. there is this idea that corporations they have got so much fat in the system they will absorb it and it won't be passed on to us. yes, it will. you and i both lived through covid, as soon as there is a supply chain issue, as soon as there is a chink in the armor who pays it? the consumer. just like when we see wages go up, businesses pass it on to consumers and if tariffs are put in place it's going to affect us. now, i don't believe that donald trump's threat of universally, you know, imposing tariffs across -- i don't think it's going to happen. what i think it's going to be is a negotiating tactic and as important as the tariffs are, are the exceptions. and that's what we need to pay

attention to. because what donald trump is going to love in the next six months is every ceo you can think of, saddling up next to him saying, i get that you want to tariff nicolle but don't put it on me. it is going to be a beauty pageant, the one place where he gets to pick winners and losesers and that's what he loves to do. >> it gets back to the conversation that you and i and andrew ross sorkin had. does it come back to this conversation they are all going to have? >> absolutely. for those business leaders they have to worry about their employees, shareholders and customers. now that we looked at the results of the election, well, where many and many and many of their employers and shareholders are they might not have expected. they know -- and i'm not saying this in an opinionated way -- donald trump is a vengeful guy. i spoke to somebody very close to him on friday night who said to me don't ever forget when you punch donald trump he punches you twice as hard but when you love him he loves you even

harder which i was like we don't need to love him. he is a president. whether it's journalists covering him or businesspeople dealing with him, that's how donald trump operates and he will use these tariffs in the same way. if you love me, there may be an exception for you. >> gross. no one is going anywhere. we will bring charlie and claire in on the other side. we will bring charlie and claire in on the other side (children speaking) conflict is raging across the world, and millions of children's lives are being devastated by war, hunger, disease and poverty.

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imports was on his mind. it was the answer to just about any question trump got about the things causing people economic anxiety. this is trump field ago question about child care. >> child care is child care, it couldn't -- you know, there's something -- you have to have it in this country you have to have it. but when you talk about those numbers compared to the kind of numbers that i'm talking about by taxing foreign nations at levels that they are not used to, but they will get used to it very quickly. and it's not going to stop them from doing business with us, but they will have a very substantial tax when they send product into our country. those numbers are so much bigger than any numbers we're talking about including child care that it's going to take care -- >> so i think that what voters might have heard was the tariffs are going to pay for child care. i hope that comes to pass. like i don't want to be smug and sneering. i think that there are a lot of

people for whom child care breaks them, right? two incomes. >> right. >> before there's public school to send your kids to you are paying for day care and you have more than one kid it's more than one at day care and it's brutal. have you seen any sign that trump actually is thinking about those people when he talks about tariffs? >> no, absolutely not. but tariffs -- this is an obsession of donald trump going back decades and decades. before it was china it was japan. but a couple of things. number one, i would encourage listeners to google smood hawley, the last time we had a global trade war of this -- how this actually worked out for the u.s. economy. secondly i understand the political appeal of saying let's tax these foreign countries but what i think people are going to find out is that this is also a massive sales tax on american consumers and it is inherently inflationary. i want to go to the point that stephanie made, the way that he will pick and choose winners and losers. this will be crony capitalism on

steroids. this is not the free market. this is, you know, one industry, one business after the other which will have to come in and curry favor with the president because he will punish some and he will show favor to others. there is nothing free market about all of this, and i think this is where, you know, free market conservatives, you know, need to look at exactly what they are buying into if they are supporting this -- these unilateral tariffs. the economy is made up of billions of individual choices, it is incredibly complex yet donald trump seems to still believe that he can exercise centralized political government control of this by favoring some industries and punishing other industries and it's going to be -- it's going to be a bleep show. >> claire, let me read you some analysis of what our economy can turn into based on what trump said out loud he could do.

the peterson institute for international economics the leading think tank estimate that had trump's policies would slash the u.s. gdp the total output of goods and services by between 1.5 trillion and 6.4 trillion dollars through the year 2028. peterson also estimates that trump's proposals would drive prices sharply higher within two years. inflation which would otherwise come in at 1.9% in the year 2026 would instead jump to between 6% and 9.3% if trump's policies are enacted in full. so steph and i were talking about this economic terror and rage that people rightly feel and the struggle to pay for all sorts of things, including child care, including groceries, but trump's policies jump our inflation rate up to 6% to 9.3% if enacted. who is the guardrail against economic calamity? >> yeah, you know, tariffs are

complicated and i don't think trump was surfing off the fact that both americans don't really understand how they work. keep in mind that countries don't pay a tax. what happens is the goods they send over that are being demanded by u.s. consumers through walmart or home depot or t.j. maxx, those people have to pay more for them. so that means your prices go up on those goods. the other side of this, we haven't spent enough time talking about, is the impact on the ag community. if you look at the map it is so red mostly because of rural areas and agriculture is still king in rural america. the last time trump did this the farmers were screaming because farmers were screaming because they could no longer export their soybeans because there were retaliatory tariffs. the countries that their products are going to have a lug put on them to send them here

they're going to put them on our products that go overseas. so anybody who makes a product that goes overseas, whether it's soybeans or cotton or it's john deere caterpillars or whatever it is, they're going to have retaliatory tariffs. and what happened last time was up from wrote a $28 billion check to farmers, sent it directly to them, to make it up to them to try to heal their wounds. the economic wounds they were feeling. well, imagine if these tariffs are across the board 10% to 20%. and peterson is quoted in that a.p. article, everybody should know -- and steph will back me up on this. that's probably the most conservative economic think tank in america. continuous a left-leaning think tank. they are very, very conservative. so if they're saying that about g.e.p. it could be much worse. >> nicolle, i don't know one person in the business community that's defending the tariffs. all i've heard is it's a negotiating tactic, wait until this business guy negotiates.

and maybe, maybe that's the case. but what a huge gamble you are taking on our economy, especially when the u.s. consumer as expressed is as sensitive and enraged as they are, that maybe this guy is a master negotiator. that's a dangerous game you're playing. >> and the republicans control everything. i guess i would give you the last word on this question. who puts a brake on the things that damage the economy and economic security? >> well, all of this -- what matters most right now truly is who donald trump chooses in these jobs. right? he does have this moment. or it wasn't just the maga universe that elected him. you saw the majority of americans say i don't like what i have, i'm up for something else. so there is this possible needle that could be threaded that maybe he chooses some actual real smart qualified people for these jobs around him. but whether or not he does that remains to be seen. tough to get if your number one job requirement is a loyalty pledge to him.

>> i told you we're going to need you. thank you for being here again. charlie sykes, thank you. claire will be back in the next hour. still ahead for us the former mayor of new york city a trump 1.0 figure, now disgraced former attorney, says he needs money for food. the very latest in his fight to pay off his legal debt. that's next. bt that's next. ♪ giving that's possible through the power of dell ai with intel. so those who receive can find the joy of giving back.

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broke he can't eat, can't afford to feed himself, saying the law firm representing the two election workers he defamed, ruby freeman and shaye moss, as well as the judge, quote, seized my measly checking account so i can't buy food. this comes after rudy was admonished by a federal judge in new york for hiding his assets, that he's supposed to be turning over including a mercedes, two dozen high-end watches, a jersey signed by new york yankees hall of famer joe dimaggio. but rudy giuliani has been flagrant in his refusal to hand over any of those things, even taking the vintage mercedes to florida last week. today is the deadline for rudy's attorneys to give instructions on how the remaining items will ultimately be delivered to moss and freeman. up next for us, new reporting on the possibility o'of the president-elect planning to make

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our government isn't malfeasant. we know what malfeasant governments are. they're the ones that put political prisoners in jail and take their own citizens and cordon them off in inhumane circumstance. our government may not be good enough for the american people, but undermining it isn't enough and telling lies about the american people, it's my experience that our citizens and our residents are disproportionately good and when you tell the american people that those things are untrue, not only do you undermine our belief in ourselves, which is the most important thing that we have, but you create a playground for those who would advance their interests at the expense of ours. >> hi again, everybody. it's now 5:00 in new york. spreading the lie that there is

malfeasance in our government, that some mysterious shadowy deep state is out to get donald trump and his supporters, poses a grave threat to u.s. national security and by extension the american people. we heard that from former principal deputy director of national intelligence sue gordon. she talked about it on this program last week. not because it's some abstract theory out there but because it is a message that trump and some of his most extreme allies have been pushing onto the american people repeatedly and for years now. especially one person named kash patel, who according to reporting from our colleague vaughn hillyard is currently under consideration to be the director of the cia or the fbi in donald trump's second term. it's an interesting development. as we just learned moments ago that the current director of the fbi, christopher wray, also appointed by donald trump, as well as people on the trump team are planning for the possibility that trump will replace his

first pick to be fbi director during his first term, christopher wray. wray has not finished out serving out his ten-year term, and that is according to three people familiar with this matter. to refresh your memory for a minute on the individual named kash patel, he's someone trump wanted to install as deputy director of the cia at the end of his first term as president. but gina haspel, who was running the cia at the time, said she would quit if he did that. kash patel has since written a book called "government gangsters," which as abc news reports calls for a, quote, comprehensive house cleaning at the justice department and an eradication of government tyranny within the fbi by firing the top ranks and prosecuting to the fullest extent of the law anyone who in any way abused their authority for political ends. and he has said this in the past. >> the one thing we learned in the trump administration the

first go-round is we've got to put in all america patriots top to bottom. and we've got them for law enforcement. we've got them for intel collection. we've got them for offensive operations. we've got them for d.o.d., cia, everywhere. and the one thing we will do that they never will do is we will follow the facts and the law and go to courts of law and correct these justices and lawyers who have been prosecuting these cases based on politics and actually issuing them as lawfare. we will go out and find the conspirators not just in government but in the media. yes, we're going to come after the people in the media who lied about american citizens, who helped joe biden rig presidential elections. we're going to come after you. whether it's criminally or civilly, we'll figure that out. but yeah, we're putting you all on notice. >> they're going to go get the people who lied about the results of the election? we hope he means in 2020. and incited people to commit crimes at the u.s. capitol. we hope he does that. anyone that lied about the results of the 2020 election and inspired their own people to

carry out crimes and chant "hang mike pence." those people should meet the fate that kash patel describes there in that interview. now, as concerning as kash patel's appointment was to gina haspel four years ago and as concerning as the potential for that happening now is, there are more and different worries around what the intelligence community will look like under donald trump. nbc news is reporting on the mounting concerns that trump will politicize and weaponize the u.s. spy agencies, claims he has made very publicly in the past. quote, lawmakers, former intelligence officers, and western officials worry that trump and a group of loyalists could reshape the makeup and mission of the nation's intelligence apparatus. officers could be pressured to skew their findings to suit the white house's political agenda. allies might scale back information sharing due to trump's cavalier approach to secrecy. and in a worst case scenario the

spy agencies could be converted into tools of retribution against domestic political opponents. the former officers and others say. meanwhile, the president-elect has been fielding calls from foreign leaders. the "washington post" is reporting that trump spoke with russian president vladimir putin on thursday. their first call since trump's win. according to what the "washington post" called, quote, several people familiar with the matter. russia is denying that that call took place, and trump's team tells nbc news this, quote, we do not comment on private calls between president trump and other world leaders. so there's that. "the new york times" is also reporting that south korea is worried trump and kim jong un will soon be exchanging what trump called love letters once again. the situation that could put the safety of our ally south korea at risk. all of this is where we start the hour with former chief of staff at the cia and at the department of defense our dear friend jeremy bash is here.

jeremy, where do you want to start? shall we start with kash patel and his future atop either the fbi or the cia? what would you -- what would you think? >> hey, nicolle. so first i want to start by saying as you said today's veterans day and today is the day we honor the service and sacrifice of those who served our nation in uniform. it's also a good moment to remember the people who paid the ultimate sacrifice for our freedom. and i say that and i start there because i want people to know that the people who wear the uniform of our country, the people who serve in our intelligence agencies, the people who are the career foreign service diplomats serving our departments and agencies, they're not part of any political party. they're not part of a regime. they don't have a loyalty oath to a person or to an agenda. they're not even part of a loyal opposition. they are completely non-partisan. and that's the way we want it to be. and i think -- the only thing i would maybe label all of those

people, and i put myself proudly in this camp, is we're institutionalists. we truly believe that the institutions of our government when deployed and used in a non-partisan, non-political way serve the best interests of all americans. and i actually think, nicolle, as you were assessing at the top of the show how the senate will consider the nominations of certain national security professionals, i actually believe that there are a lot of republican senators, and i put john thune, john cornyn, mitch mcconnell, incoming senator dave mccormick, in that institutional bucket as well. i believe that they will want to see people leading these departments and agencies who will speak truth to power, who will be faithful to the ideal of non-partisanship. yes, we need to have civilian control of the military. that's an important principle. we should unpack what that means in the context of a trump administration. but i want people to know that the good people at cia, the good people in the director of national intelligence, the good people at the pentagon are not some deep state, they're not going to pursue some political agenda. they just don't have it in their

dna. they don't do it. and they're going to be really work for the interests of all americans. >> jeremy, eight years ago i would have left it unremarked what you just said about mitch mcconnell and mr. mccormick, and i don't know who else you lumped in there, john thune. but i think we're too late into the trump story -- >> and john cornyn. >> -- to hope for people who know better to do better. the story we led with was recess appointments because donald trump has such a massive political mandate going to washington he doesn't need them. so he's using them for a different reason. and i think we both know what the different reason is, right? i mean, are you really pinning the preservation of these institutions, you and i both revere on mitch mcconnell and john thune growing a spine? >> well, nicolle, do we have a choice? that's the point, which is part of being institutionalists means you believe and subscribe to the view of separation of powers. in our constitutional system. and you kind of hit this at the top of the show.

we're going to be entering a period in which donald trump not only controls the entire executive branch, his party will control the senate, probably the house, and a significant majority of the u.s. supreme court. so anybody who's taken civics understands that when you control all three branches of government with a protect party it's much more challenging to have checks and balances. so as difficult as it is to contemplate this at this moment, nicolle, i think we have to rely on republicans, republican elected officials, supreme court justices and people inside government and outside government who are willing to continue to have checks and balances, to continue to hold the executive branch accountable if there's an unlawful order given to the united states military, i expect and i think it will be the case that uniformed military will not carry out unlawful orders. if these people try to politicize the work of the central intelligence agency, i know the people who work in the central intelligence agency. they will not allow their work to be politicized. they will speak the truth and the truth will set them free. that's emblazoned on the wall of

the original headquarters building at langley. there's kind of a mode of operating, a view, a loyalty to the constitution that honestly is bigger than any other idea of who's in power, who's your commander in chief, who's calling the shots in the executive branch, and i think we can have faith in people who believe in these institutions. >> let me show you what trump said he would do to the military. >> i think the bigger problem is the enemy from within. not even the people that have come in and -- destroying our country. by the way, totally destroying our country. the towns, the villages. they're being inundated. but i don't think the other problem in terms of election day, i think the bigger problem are the people from within. we have some very bad people. we have some sick people. radical left lunatics. and i think they're the -- and it should be very easily handled by if necessary national guard or if really necessary by the military.

because we can't let that happen. >> so comments like that led to the extraordinary event of retired general john kelly speaking out on the record and on tape with his warnings. again, i know that some of these folks in trump's circle are smearing the media with calling trump a fascist. it was actually general milley who called him a, quote, fascist to the core. something general mattis corroborated and something that general kelly then said on tape that was widely circulated. the idea that trump will put the military onto u.s. soil in the functions that he's said out loud to say nothing of what we don't know he may be planning, what does that actually look like when the military gets their orders from the white house? the commander in chief through their civilian leadership to carry out what may be an illegal

order. >> yeah. i think this was contemplated actually during the george floyd riots when then president trump wanted to use the military under some theory of using the insurrection act to quell first amendment protected activity. and general milley looked at the facts, looked at what was happening and looked the president square in the eye and said we're not doing that. and i believe general c.q. brown the current chair of the joint chiefs of staff and other members of the joint chiefs of staff, the service chiefs from the army, from the navy, from the marine corps, the air force and space force, will do the exact same thing. i should also say the leadership of the national guard. and i've spoken in recent days to uniformed personnel both enlisted and young officers all the way up to the general and flag officers, and they have no intent to follow any unlawful order to use the united states military against the american people. i just want to say, nicolle, you referenced retired marine general john kelly, and i want to be especially sensitive today of all days about his patriotism and what he's given for the country.

you know, first of all, today is veterans day. it's also the birthday of the marine corps. but it's also the anniversary of the death of his son robert kelly who was killed serving our country in uniform in afghanistan. and over the weekend as the kelly family gathered at robert's tombstone in arlington national cemetery, which is hallowed ground, not a place for photo ops, not a place for campaign events, which is what donald trump did during the campaign, you know, i think all americans should be grateful to families like the kellys and the countless other families out there who've given and paid the ultimate sacrifice for our freedom. >> i think people are grateful to general kelly. and i think that the fact that he spoke out to never be viewed through the lens of the campaign that was being waged, i don't think that had anything to do with it. i think his speaking out was about the institution he reveres most, which isn't the white house in which he served as the longest white house chief of staff. it is the military. and i just want to tick through, the members of national security agencies who spoke out against donald trump, it's not just mattis, kelly and milley.

it's also esper, who was the secretary of defense. mike pence didn't vote for donald trump. cassidy hutchinson and sarah matthews were west wing staffers for donald trump. eric hirshman was a loire. mr. donohue worked at doj. don mcgahn was the first white house counsel. rex tillerson called him an f-ing moron. bob corker was a republican senator who tried to for the first time in american history rein in the nuclear powers of an american sitting president because he described the west wing as, quote, daycare. anthony -- i mean, the list of people who've warned about donald trump's ambitions when it comes to u.s. national security are all former trump national security officials. so what keeps you up at night? >> well, what keeps me up at night are some of the things that those officials talked about but also something that i think h.r. mcmaster, an army general himself who served as national security adviser to president trump, also wrote about in his recent book. i have to say general mcmaster didn't come out there and write some screed against donald trump. he was pretty careful, pretty measured if you actually read the book.

but one of the things he said is there is a dynamic when donald trump gets on the phone or gets in the room with a dictator, with an autocrat, which is that that autocrat knows exactly how to transact business with donald trump. they know that flattery works, and that essentially you can get donald trump to fold and cave very easily on some highly consequential issues. erdogan has done this. xi jinping has done this. obviously we know vladimir putin has done this. and you know, nicolle, you reference at the top that as donald trump fields some of these congratulatory phone calls from world leaders -- which by the way is appropriate to have those phone calls. we still have to adhere to the principle that we only have one president at a time. we are in a presidential transition. president joe biden is the president of the united states. and donald trump and his team should not be conducting foreign policy in this transition period. it's highly confusing to our adversaries. i think it sends a signal of undercutting what we're trying to do in the world. and i think the trump team should wait, they should field the congratulatory phone calls,

say thank you very much, i look forward to working with you. things are going to be good between us and i look forward to talking to you after january 20th. or some pleasantries. but we should not be having the incoming administration conducting foreign policy. that actually keeps me up at night. >> and that occurrence was what led to mike flynn on a call with russian ambassador kislyak, a call that inexplicably to this day he lied about to the fbi. what would deter donald trump, who's going to install a loyalist atop the fbi and the cia, from doing -- of course he shouldn't do those things. but what this time would deter him from doing that? >> very little. and again we have to fall back on the strength and weight of our tooingss and those checks and balances. we've been talking about personnel. i just wanted to mention one thing that's been in the news the last 24 hours, which is that donald trump said he would not have nikki haley or mike pompeo in his administration. he put that out on social media.

again, nikki haley, someone -- i may not have voted for her, i may not have agreed with everything she said but i think she would have been an important contribution to a national security team because i think at the end of the day we can disagree about this, nicolle, but i think at the of the day she would be loyal to the institutions. mike pompeo, by the way, was a west point graduate. he served as cia director. he served as secretary of state. again, i might not agree with everything that he did while in office, but this is a guy who literally walks around with security details because the iranians have still threatened to harm him. that's been reported in the media. because of some of the operations that he oversaw when he was in office. he is literally at physical risk based on some things he did to you are o'country. and he's apparently not loyal enough to donald trump. he maybe didn't endorse him or he might run against j.d. vance. this is a guy who was maga from the start, a key member of the administration, and now he's not loyal enough to donald trump to put in office.

i think he would have been a good secretary of defense. and there are others like that. so the cadre of people trump is turning to i fear is narrowing, it's winnowing, it's focusing on loyalists, it's focusing on people who are not institutionalists, and i work about that, nicolle. >> jeremy bash, your worries are our worries. you have a lot more visibility into the men and women, the incredible public servants. i guess the only last thing i would say about kash patel looking for patriots up and down, i think the textbook definition of a patriot up and down is on this veterans day the men and women that we're talking about who've served but also the nameless ones who are only honored by stars without their names on them at the cia. so i think if mr. patel is looking for patriots top to bottom, a lot of them can be found in those buildings in which you served at the cia and the department of defense. fascinating days. and no one better to talk to

about them than you, jeremy bash. thank you for starting us off. >> thanks, nicolle. >> when we come back, where democrats go from here and what they need to do starting right now to rebuild their political coalition. our panel will be here in just a minute. also ahead on this veterans day, this most solemn of days, there are questions among some who wore the uniform of this country about why the incoming president's track record for disdain of certain members of the military didn't register or render him unqualified to serve as commander in chief with more voters. "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. a quick break. don't go anywhere. thanks...revere. we really need to keep zicam in the house. only if you want to shorten your cold! when you feel a cold coming, shorten it with zicam (revere: hyah)

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as democrats engage in an honorable and sometimes exasperating process of examining and soul searching about all the things that went wrong to lead to last tuesday's result, it's senator chris murphy who took to social media with a call for his own party, calling them out for ignoring the concerns of everyday americans even as it became abundantly clear that doing that was hurting his party. senator murphy wrote this, quote, we are out of touch with the crisis of meaning and purpose fueling maga. the left has never fully grappled with the wreckage of 50 years of neoliberalism, profit seeking cannibalizes the common good and unchecked new technology separates and isolates us. the things that matter are disappearing. we spend half as much time with friends aseneration ago. hard work no longer guarantees economic mobility. institutions like churches are

delegitimized. place-based identity evaporates as we all become global citizens. the left skips past the way people are feeling and straight to uninspiring solutions. we don't listen enough. we tell people what's good for them. and when progressives like bernie aggressively go after the elites that hold people down they are shunned as dangerous populists. why? maybe because true economic populism is bad for our high income base. we cannot be afraid of fights. the right regularly picks fights with elites. real economic populism should be our tent pohl. you need to let people into the tent who aren't 100% on board with us on every social and cultural issue. while it might seem like a story about how far the democratic party has to go to fix things or right the ship, our friend david rothkopf puts it this way, quote, the american story is not over yet. indeed, we still have the power to ensure its best chapters lie ahead of us and that once again the advocates for turning back

the clock will be defeated by the inevitability of the dawn. joining us now is david ragtkopf, columnist for the daily beast, author of the need to know substack. with me at the table distinguished political scholar professor at princeton university eddie glaude joins me. and lucky for me former democratic senator claire mccaskill is back. david, i loved your piece. take us through what you're finding and preaching if i may. >> i don't know that i'm preaching anything. but i have been talking to my friends and a lot of people in the past week and there's a lot of hyperventilating going on. there's a lot of people trying to say that what has happened is this big simple thing or that big simple thing. and of course it was a lot of things that happened including some forces that we're not in control of, the politicians involved. this global trend against incumbents or the regular rejection of the incumbents

within the united states. the desire for change. yes, i agree with chris murphy, we are out of touch with both the republican base but also the democratic base. had the same number of democrats showed up to vote as voted in 2020, kamala harris would be the president-elect right now. so we need to take a deep breath. we need to give it some time. but then we need to prepare. prepare for the kind of things you were just talking to jeremy about or that you were discussing in the prior hour. but that means don't borrow trouble, focus on the things that might actually happen. focus on the things where we can have some leverage. identify partners who have leverage. and even if trump controls the whole of the government, the federal government, he doesn't control the states. he doesn't control markets. he doesn't control corporations. there are plenty of politicians who have interests that run contrary to his.

if elon wants to cut a third of the federal budget, he's going to very quickly find out that that resonates down in districts and a lot of republicans are going to say no, don't do that. so identify the potential partners and set priorities. defend democracy. defend our freedoms. and defend us from enemies. because of course one of the problems with this administration is it's far too close with enemies like the russians. but let's be strategic. let's try to avoid being hysterical. >> i want to read something that david french wrote in the "new york times." as a long-time campaign operative has a brilliant sports analogy for the process of campaigning. she compares it to curling. for those unfamiliar with the sport of curling, one person throws a stone by sliding it along the ice, then sweepers come in and frantically try to marginally change the speed and direction of the rock by brushing the ice with brooms

that can melt just enough of the ice to make the rock travel farther or perhaps a little bit straighter. what does this have to do with politics? as she writes, quote, the underlying dine mukz of an election cycle, the economy, the popularity of a president, national events driving the news cycle are like the 44-pound stone. the candidates and the campaign team are the sweepers. they work frantically and they can influence the stone but they don't control it. in 2024 what was the stone? it's the same stone it almost always is. peace and prosperity. this is job one. a decisive number of americans will put up with the politician's quirks, foibles and even corruption if he or she delivers peace and prosperity. there's zero tolerance for scandal when they fail. it feels like this moment requires some humility and self-reflection. not at the expense of moving forward. but in service of it. and i think that we spent a lot of time on the sweepers and maybe not enough time on the stone. but i feel like the stone is where you center your thoughts.

so what are your thoughts today? >> sure. we're on the eve of 250 years. and the contradiction that's threatened to overwhelm the country from the beginning is in full view. what i think is fascinating is all the ways in which we account for what has happened, what happened on tuesday, none of which seems to account for why these people who are catching hell, the economy, who have issues with the incumbent, why would they then choose someone who trades in such hate? why would they scapegoat? why would it become such vitriol is released into the public, into the political system? so bernie could be right. senator murphy -- senator sanders could be right. senator murphy could be right. but they're not accounting for why then are people choosing to hate? why such ugliness as an outcome? and that requires an honest reckoning with who we've been, our past, and who we are.

and it seems to me now we want to look to the future, not to be critical of david. no, we need to look in the mirror and really understand that 73-plus million people voted for this guy. this guy. and now american democracy is in jeopardy. fundamentally. and what motivated that vote, he played to grievance, he played to hatred, he played to fear, he played to selfishness, and he played to greed. and we have to see if that's us. nobody else. >> claire, i want to review some analysis from michael herriot in the grio. kamala harris didn't lose because of white women, hispanic voters and college age karens collectively hate black people. that is not how white supremacy works. a majority of americans were at the very least willing to overlook trump's pro-white campaign. the willingness to disregard racism, sexism, homophobia,

xenophobia, and every other phobia and ism-based bigotry is how white supremacy actually works. stand ngt same spot where trump will be inaugurated dr. king noted, quote, if america is to be a great nation his dream must become true. despite what pollsters, pundits will tell you kamala harris proved america is not yet great and if we truly interrogate it ourselves we can only conclude one thing from the 2024 election of donald trump. black people are the only group in this entire country who are willing to make the dream come true. whose fault is that? what do you think? >> gosh, i don't know. is it okay if i say i'm not sure at this point? i'm getting a little bit of a headache with all the monday morning quarterbacking because i think this needs to sink in. i'm not disagreeing with anything anyone has said so far in this segment.

but i know there's three or four or five things that are swirling around. yes, there's racism and there's sexism. there's certainly fear and anger. there is the very powerful word of change and who best represents that to a country filled with people who don't understand when they played by the rules and they've worked as hard as they know how they can't afford to retire, they can't afford to send their kids to college, sometimes they can't afford to take a vacation, they can't afford to take care of their parents. and they -- their grievance is deep and it's palpable and it's real. and donald trump did a better job of reaching that through fear and anger than the democratic party did. even though those are the values that i think our party has stood on for as long as i've been around, trying to help those people who are just playing by the rules and want to leave the world a little better for their

kids. but i do know this. i do know that now we have to be mean and tough and we have to be willing to accept people that don't see every issue exactly the way we do. we all don't have to agree 100% on everything. and i think sometimes the democratic party has been hectoring and lecturing about what people should feel about things, whether it's immigration or whether it's climate or whether it's guns. those are the social and cultural issues that chris murphy was referring to. i don't have the answer at this point. i'm still -- i'm still shook. frankly to my core. over what happened last week. but i do know this. i know that until we can agree what the facts are, facts are disappearing in front of our very eyes.

and that is a problem that i don't know how to solve at this point and it's one that's going to continue to divide us because if we can't agree with what the facts are how are we ever going to agree on what the problem is or how to solve it? >> there's a piece that i'll say, just listening to all three of you, people i respect and seek out. there's such an earnestness on the pro-democracy side and there's such a transaction on the other side. and the transaction won. and i would just -- i guess i would say that the customer's always right. so the voters found something in donald trump that they didn't find in the pro-democracy coalition. there's sort of an earnestness about the mission when at the end of the day people need to feel connected. think that sometimes democrats presented democracy as something on the menu that people could choose instead of their price of gas and the price of rent and their anxiety about their children not being ever to

afford a house and move the hell out of their basement. i think the idea that there are choices when the solutions actually are things the democrats have the market cornered on, in republican politics they usually have a lesser set of facts but a better ability to communicate and the democrats have a much better set of facts and no idea how to communicate and connect. i want to press all of you on that question. i do have to sneak in a quick break first. we'll all be right back. we'll all be right back. at humana, we believe your healthcare should evolve with you, and part of that evolution means choosing the right medicare plan for you. humana can help. with original medicare you're covered for hospital stays and doctor office visits, but you'll have to pay a deductible for each. a medicare supplement plan pays for some or all of your

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david, you do point in the piece you're in, you name check? future leaders. i want to read this part of your piece. we can imagine that gretchen whitmer, gavin newsom, wes moore, josh shapiro, andy bea shear and others. talk about what they start doing. do they head to new hampshire? do they take a stand on issues? are they sort of speaking for the millions of people who voted for harris? what is their role right now? >> i think we need an active opposition, getting a special session of the legislature there to prepare for trump. j.b. pritzker standing up and saying if you're going to try to pick people up in the streets of illinois you're going to have to come through me. you've got gretchen whitmer with a different kind of a message about reaching the base because she understands what that base is like in michigan. and wes moore in & pete

buttigieg and others are going to have to stand up and do this. while it is kind of dark for democrats at the moment, and i agree with everything eddie and claire and you have said so far, i do think we also need to remember that this was very close, that trump got the same number of votes that he got in 2020, that it was democrats who didn't show up that were really the difference here, that it was 1.5% difference in the popular vote and if there was a 1% swing in michigan, wisconsin and pennsylvania in the vote kamala harris would be the candidate. so there is a very substantial part of the american electorate, just about half of it, that supports the kind of values and the kind of ideas that are necessary to counterveil against the very dark and dangerous idea of trump and those close to him. >> you were worried about the

base the whole time. >> the whole time. i knew what donald trump's strategy was. it was to account avait those low-propensity white voters with grievance and hatred. he wasn't paying attention to the undecideds. he wasn't paying attention to the republicans who were so-called never trumpers. he knew they would probably come home at some point. his idea was to turn out all of those folks. he did it in 2016. he did it in 2020. and he did it in 2024. and every time in each of those elections downballot republicans benefited from him turning those folk out. how did he turn them out? he turned them out on the basis of great replacement theory, at least jost yurd to it. he turned them out on the basis these folks are taking your benefits, this country doesn't look like the country you think it should look like. he turned them oupt on the basis of a notion of whiteness that has suffocated this place. and no matter what we say, what we say about donald trump, what we say about working-class folk, none of it follows that trump should have been their choice because he's done nothing to help working-class people.

nothing. except for give them the scapegoat. when ralph ellison said when the incoherence of the american project comes into full view, we engage in a tricky magic. and the tricky magic is to make whiteness co-here. and you do it by pointing out the other, by attacking the other. it's been the history of the country. and here we are 2024, here we are 2024 still dealing with it. that's not to denight impact of neoliberalism. that's not to denight democratic brand has been tarnished by the third way, the democratic leadership conference. it's not to deny all of that. but none of that accounts for the choice to scapegoat people. trans people, woke people, immigration. we can go down the line. everything that's on the culture war battlefield. that's what motivated folk. and i want us to confront it. >> and if i could just add, trump grew his numbers among every group of people. so it is more attractive to latino men.

it is more attractive to latino women. it became more attractive to black men as well. >> right. because it also includes selfishness and greed. i got a check from him with his big signature on it. right? and white folk don't have a monopoly on selfishness and greed. donald trump is an avatar for the evisceration of the public good, where you and i don't have a sense of obligation to each other, we're all out in pursuit of our own aims and ends. so i can see him picking up among those folks too. but at the heart of it, 70% of the electorate are white folk. and white women post-dobbs voted for him. why? and then we look at the mixed ballot. i mean the mixed tickets. >> split tickets, yeah. >> split tickets. i just want us to be honest, nicolle. >> we've got to start there. just got to start there. eddie, you are a gift. thank you. david rothkopf, claire mccaskill, thank you for spending time with us. when we come back on this

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and the men and the families who have borne the battle to keep protecting everything they fought for, to keep striving, to heal our nation's wounds, to keep perfecting our union. >> president joe biden marking his last veterans day as the country's commander in chief at arlington national cemetery today, calling on the nation to unify, to honor what our men and women of the military have fought and died for. the president also used his remarks to tell the members of the military that it has brngs been, quote, the greatest honor of his life to lead service serve and defend them. paul rieckhoff, founder and ceo of independent veterans of america which just endorsed 11 candidates winning in five different states. winning. tell me more. >> winning. yeah. independent veterans can win. and i think it's a really important message for this country right now about putting country over party.

all party. what we saw is if we run independent veterans, especially at the local level, they win. and they win and bring people together and embody all the values that we're talking about today on veterans day. they can hold the line. they can move us forward. they can be renegades. they can be mavericks. and dan osborne in nebraska maybe is the most noteworthy one. he almost won and beat deb fisher. but his campaign is kind of a playbook and a reflection. i think the democrats are doing a lot of soul searching and looking within their party and they're not looking enough at dan osborne because i think what dan osborne shows is if candidates do put country over both parties. that's the other message for me, is the democratic party has failed america and if you're putting all your eggs in that basket we're going to fail again. we need new solutions. and eggs in that basket, you will need a new solution. if i were a democrat, i would be burning it all down and talking about new solutions. that is america's agendat. it has to be bigger than parties. it is time for a reset.

the independent candidates are showing what is possible. >> i would love for them to sit around the table and to hear how they broke through with voters. what is your sense of what that looks like? >> i think it has to do with candor and really showing that you can transition from the military directly into politics without comcompromising. osborne fought for corporate people. be he looked different when he showed up to events. he was different around the edges. his heart came through and it didn't seem like he was checking with consultants when he says everything. and that is what resonates with trump. >> authenticity. >> and toughness. there is a gender dynamic here and a race dynamic here that can't be denied. i think the democrats are often hopeful about how misaugnistic they don't want the country to be but it is still a

misaugnistic and transphobic place and sometimes who you run determines whether or not you win. we saw a lot of men win. we saw a lot of white men win. that worked this cycle. that is something for us to unpack and understand. most of all, it has to do with toughness, patriotism and independence. >> i think you are spitting some truths that people at the one week mark are ready to hear. can you stick around? we'll be right back. can you stick around we'll be right back. ♪ control of my crohn's means everything to me. ♪ ♪ control is everything to me.♪ and now i'm back in the picture. feel significant symptom relief at 4 weeks with skyrizi, including less abdominal pain and fewer bowel movements. skyrizi helped visibly improve damage of the intestinal lining. and with skyrizi, many were in remission at 12 weeks, at 1 year,

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the last time we talked about arlington is when donald trump was there. in the words of many former military people debasing arlington sacred ground. what should the military gird for now that he is elected? >> a purge. he made it clear that he will clean people out who doesn't agree with his views. a brilliant chief is gone, c.q. brown is gone. everyone on the political side is gone. he will clean them all out. we will have to really depend on, we will go pretty far down. not even talking about flag grade officers but battalion and company commanders, young men and women who signed up to uphold our values. they will have to hold the line again, especially around national security and defense. it is not going to be just trump but political opponents that ask

him to be crap. and they will have to put country over party. the true fabric of the nation will be defended by our military. someone said to me once, if america was a religion, the military would be the clergary. we have to hold the flame and on veterans day it is a time to remember that. >> thank you for your service and service to the show, always telling the truth. >> thank you for focusing on it. >> another break for us, we'll be right back. another break fol be right back. evan, my guy! you're helping them with savings, right? (♪♪) i wish i had someone like evan when i started. somebody just got their first debit card! ice cream on you? ooo, tacos! i got you. wait hold on, don't you owe me money? what?! your money is a part of your community, so your bank should be too. like, chase!

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