all out theres. we maybe don't know about them yet. i don't pick, you do. that's how democracy works, and i cannot wait to see who you find. that does it for me tonight. the rachel maddow show starts right now. hi, rachel. >> hey, jen, i love it. the onward, forward, the future is very uncertain but in some good ways, too. i feel better already. >> well, i know. we've got to be clearheaded about the moment, but there are also exciting elements of who will rise and rising stars, and that's exciting, too, unin this moment. >> totally. i am with you. i'm on this ride. i want you to continue tell me where this ride is going. i feel good about it. >> we're on the ride. >> thanks, jen. that cans a lot. and thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. really happy to vow i here. so the last time donald trump

was president of the united states, his secretary of interior got embroiled in a corruption scandal and was referred to the u.s. department of justice for potential criminal prosecution. the last time donald trump was president his secretary of transportation also got embroiled in a corruption scandal and was referred to the department of justice for potential criminal prosecution. the last time donald trump was president, his secretary of labor got embroiled in a disgusting scandal involving convicted pedophile jeffrey epstein. a federal judge ruled trump's labor secretary had broken a rule in that scandal, and so the labor secretary was referred to the office of professional responsibility at the justice department. he ended up resigning in disgrace. donald trump's secretary of energy resigned in a corruption and ethics scandal. donald trump's head of the epa resigned in a corruption and ethics scandal. donald trump's health and human

services secretary resigned in a corruption and ethics scandal. and i mean, anyone of these cases is like a teapot-dome sized scandal, right? it used to be if you had one cabinet official involved in a big ethics or corruption scandal that forced them out of a job or led them to being referred for criminal prosecution, even if you just had one, that would be enough to brand your whole presidency a disgraced and scandal-ridden mistake. i mean, warren g. harding, what is remembered about the warren g. harding presidency? i mean maybe you got three things you could remember. "a," died in office. "b," had an affair. "c," teapot dome scandal, which resulted in an official being criminally charged.

essentially one century that essentially what we remember about that guide's presidency. admit it i said warren g. harding had an affair, you didn't evon know that. one cabinet official getting in trouble used to be enough to mar your presidency and brand it alone for a century. the first donald trump presidential term had so many cabinet officials forced out of office in disgrace and referred to the justice department to face criminal charges, it's actually hard to remember them all. and, of course, just one of the scandals of the trump administration is despite an unprecedented number of cabinet officials being referred to the justice department for potential prosecution, the supposedly independent department of justice under donald trump decided to bring charge, to actually bring criminal charges

against precisely none of them, which is yet another trump scandals from his first term, but still. i will also mention one of the more memorable disasters, ethkg disasters from trump's first term was his secretary of veteran affairs. this might be the most memorable because it happened right at the end. i remember our headline about it on our show blog. the head lean about it was december 10, 2020. before the january 6, attack on congress, the inauguration. this was the headline. yet another trump secretary caught up in scandal as donald trump's presidency comes to an end it's apparently not too late for one more cabinet controversy. and that last one it was the secretary of veterans affairs, and he, too, like so many of his colleagues in the trump cabinet, he too was referred to the justice department for potential

prosecution. an investigation happened into claims that he had tried to discredit a veteran who said she had been sexually assaulted at a v.a. facility. the v.a. inspector general investigated those allegations, found evidence that he seemed to have broken the law. they referred him to doj to be prosecuted. and of course, the trump justice department did not prosecute him. they didn't prosecute any of these guys. but one of the things that was really memorable about his scandal is that more than 20 different veterans groups rose up in outrage against that guy. and these were disparate veterans groupwise very different takes from the world. everyone from the american legion to iraq and afghanistan veterans of america, to the veterans of foreign wars. they all demanded this v.a. trump secretary be fired. even a protrump group railed against this guy for the scandal he was inembroiled in.

it was a disaster. it was a sign even right up to the very bitter and ultimately very violent end of trump's term in office, things were just bad. it was a bad presidential term. it is not normal to have a half dozen members of the cabinet referred for potential criminal prosecution for -- for crimes they allegedly committed while they were serving in the cabinet. it's not normal. i mean, that's the kind of thing that gets you listed repeatedly as the worst or among the worst presidents in u.s. history when presidential historians and scholars are surveyed about these things, right? this is why trump is considered by experts in the field to be if not the worst then certainly one of the worst presidents in the history of the united states. i'm sorry warren g. harding. it just wasn't good. today's veteran's day. happy veteran's day. veterans day is a celebratory

day. it's not to be confused with memorial day which is a shawm br occasion. memorial day we remember service members whose gave their lives for our country. veterans day is a happy day, a celebration of our nations veterans, to say thank you and pay them some attention, pay attention to their service and their pride in their service. basically as a country veterans day is a day to lift up our service members and our veterans. and i therefore try not to do bummer veterans news on veterans day. but today the news is that donald trump for his second presidential term has brought back that guy, that last cabinet official with the last scandal, the guy who was referred for criminal prosecution right at the end of trump's first term in office after a scandal-ridden tenure at the v.a. and this time trump has brought that guy back to lead trump

transition efforts for the entire military, for the entire defense department. former v.a. defense secretary who was referred today the justice department for criminal prosecution at the end of his term to lead trump's pentagon transition efforts. at a time when the united states of america is looking to the u.s. military for assurances that they won't deploy against american civilians the way trump has threatened he will order them to do, the guy who's in charge with staffing up the defense department leadership for the military, making sure we've got all the best, most ethical people there, it's the guy who left office last time under trump while his, quote, possible criminal conduct was under investigation by federal prosecutors. good times. there's been a flurry of announcements and news about trump staffing up for his second term in the past 24 hours. he really is bringing back that guy to choose the staff and leadership of the u.s. defense

department. it's just been reported by "the new york times" that florida republican senator marco rubio, who once memorably cast aspirations on the size of donald trump's genitals in a presidential debate, "the new york times" is first to report that senator marco rubio will be donald trump's choice for secretary of state. nbc news has actually just confirmed that news as well, just in the last couple of moments. it is on the front page of "the new york times" as we speak. marco rubio the expected choice by donald trump to be his secretary of state. we did learn for sure this evening that trump is choosing for his national security advisor another republican member of congress, congressman mike walz of florida. after congressman walz helped in the effort to keep trump in power whereby after he lost re-election in 2020, you might remember -- this was an amazing florida story. you might remember a very

unusual apology being published by congressman waltz's hometown paper, the orlando sentinel. it was an apology to their readers for having endorsed mike waltz for re-election. they apologized for having endorsed him after he helped trump overthrow the government. mike waltz has also distinguished himself by claiming that trump was not responsible for january 6th. he also has proposed that dulles airport should be renamed trump airport. so clearly congressman mike waltz has checked all the boxes that he needs to be national security advisor in a second trump presidency term. today we also learned tom holman will be in a job trump is apparently calling border czar. remember when republicans used to maintain with a straight face it was a huge scandal, it was evidence of communism to call anybody a czar in the u.s. government?

well, tom holman will be trump's border czar. tom holman is the architect of the policy that had the u.s. government deliberately and systematically taking little kids away from their parents and not giving them back. he also spent this interregnum period while trump's been out of office barnstorming the country, bragging about how he's going to be the man who will mercilessly come after immigrants if and when trump gets back into power. >> is there a way to carry out mass deportation without separating families? >> of course there is. families can be deported together. they ain't seen [ bleep ] yet. wait until 2025. trump comes back in january, i will run the biggest deportation this country has ever seen. i don't give a [ bleep ], right? i don't give a [ bleep ] what anybody says. trump comes back, i come back.

[ applause ] and i will run the biggest deportation operation this country's ever seen. >> that last appearance there it's worth pointing out was tom holman, again, just appointed to be trump's border czar for the second term. that was him speaking this year at an event called the iron rod festival, which was a quasi- quasi-religious event held by a cult leader. this is a group that literally worships assault rifles and their semigod leader who wears a crown made out of bullets. that cult event is the kind of event tom holman has been speak at this year talking about mass deportations and how he'll run all that when trump's back in office. here's another i want to highlight. this is tom holman doing a very

friendly long radio show interview, typical interview for him content wise. this is the guy whose show he chose to be on here. this is the kind of environment tom holman has been swimming in before named today to be trump's border czar for his second term. >> if you look what happened under the attacks of 911, again, all coming out of the same group of people, that has done a very good job at hiding under the religion of judaism. they use judaism as a cover for what they're really doing. i'm sure they helped engineer the takedown of hitler. the things i see it just makes me shake my head. after what they've programmed -- people are going to learn a lot about world war ii and the hitler and nazis. they're going to learn hitler was actually fighting the same people that we're trying to take down today. >> people are going to learn hitler was fighting the same people that we're trying to take down today.

these people who are using judaism as a cover for what they're really doing. and look at 9/11. look at judaism and 9/11. what? this is the company that tom holman has been keeping and the kinds of places where he's been making appearances over the past few years while trump has been out of office. that's where tom holman has been promising mass deportations and camps to hold millions of people in this country. now, trump today has announced he is, in fact, bringing tom holman into the government to head up mass deportations. trump has also put in charge of policy planning for the transition the other architect of the family separation policy, the policy of taking kids away from their families and not giving them back, the whole second term trump plan to build mass camps in the united states for the military, to hold millions of people inside our own borders, that idea was developed by steven miller.

we learned today he will be deputy chief of policy in the trump white house. and according to "the new york times," he will be in charge of all policy matters for the transition. and we know what his priorities are. he will be setting policy priorities for what the trump administration will do on day one. so anybody who's telling you this is going to be an all moderate or normal in terms of what they're going to do, that person is living on a nice planet that i would like to visit some time, but it is not our planet here. any expectation that the most extreme things trump talked about during the campaign and during his time out of office, those were just talk and normal people will come into his administration to do normal things, that wishful thinking has not survived this first monday since the election. it is better to be clear-eyed about these things and to see them coming man to the be in denial or to be surprised by them when they come around. it is what it is. and to that end, i think there's

one other thing that is worth watching here, worth putting up a flag on this. just in terms of thinking about, you know, not just policy choices, not just personnel choices but the preservation of our system of government because a president, honestly, can appoint pretty much anyone he wants to any position. right? it is ridiculous that trump in his first term at office had tons of cabinet officials who were involved in corruption scandals and even referred for criminal prosecution. it is insane he gave his son-in-law a white house job and then gave him a security clearance even though he failed a background check, and that same son-in-law walked away from the white house at the end with $2 billion from saudi arabia in his pocket. it's all crazy. but legally a president can put anyone he wants in the white house, basically. he is free to make terrible decisions along those lines, and we have seen him do it before. he is free to work the worst possible decisions about who to the bring into the white house.

that's who the american people voted for. congratulations, that is what we will get. also with the advice and consent of the senate, he can put anyone he wants into high positions in the government writ large. but on that point, you may have seen that trump put out a statement online insisting that even though he's not in control yet, even though the democrats right now control the white house, president joe biden is still president, even though the democrats right now have a majority in the senate, still, trump insisting this weekend that the democrats should not be allowed to confirm anyone including any biden-appointed judges over these next two and a half months before trump is sworn in as president. as an assertion that's nuts. you're not president, my guy, and republicans don't control the senate. you have no say whether or not biden and the democrats choose to pass more, you know, confirmations before you take

power. you don't get a say in that. you're not in power yet. and to be clear, after biden won the presidential election in 2020 and democrats won the senate at the same time, when the republicans were on their way out of power and they knew it, they had a gazillion confirmations. they confirmed at least 32 people in that time period after the 2020 election. everything from the surface transportation board to the transportation board to the doj, to the tennessee valley authority. they confirmed more than 30 people to jobs like that after biden and the democrats won the 2020 election but before trump and the republicans had left town and handed over power. just in that time period the republicans after the 2020 election but before biden's inauguration, republicans in congress when they weren't helping trump with his effort to overthrow the government by force and stay in power thanks an angry armed mob attacking congress, when they weren't busy with that, they were busy

confirming trump judges. after the election, after trump lost election in 2020 but before biden was sworn in, republicans in the senate confirmed appeals court judges and district court judges, tons of federal judges, including aileen cannon, who proceeded to throw out an open shut case about trump illegally mishandling classified documents which he hid in his bathroom among other places at mar-a-lago. they confirmed tons of people after they lost the election in 2020, before the democrats came into power at the end of january 2025. the idea it would be somehow improper now for the democrats to do the same thing, for the democrats to spend this next 2 1/2 months confirming biden nominees including judges, to say that there's something wrong with that or republicans should stop that or the republicans can stop that is just an absurd suggestion. republicans confirmed people at

great speed after they lost power in 2020. democrats will do so, presumably with equivalent speed right now after they lost this election. the white house at least said they would do so today in a statement brushing trump back, telling him to back off his threats to try to stop these confirmations even before he is back in power. here's the thing i really want to point to here. along with that absurd bluster from trump where he's trying to pretend he's already in power, right, telling democrats to behave as if trump's already president and republicans already control the senate, which they don't, aside from that, which is pushing it, big guy, trump also said one other thing about confirming people for positions in the government. he said he wants the new senate once they're sworn in in january to go into recess. he wants them to recess, to leave town so that there's no senate in session to confirm his

nominees for the new administration. now, on the surface level you might think this makes no sense. republicans are going to control the senate when they're back in january. it's not like trump-era republicans are known for their independence and willing to buck trump's wishes. whoever trump wants to appoint as president no matter how crazy, they're going to appoint whoever he asks for. you think they're going to be offended snd someone like tom holman, he's been spending time with the jews 9/11 guy. you think republicans are going to have a problem with that, really? he's going to have a republican-controlled senate. they will confirm his appointees no matter who they are. so why is trump now telling the senate to go into recess, to shut themselves down so they can't vote to confirm his appointees? why is he doing that? he's doing that so the senate won't have to vote to confirm

his appointees. if the senate is in recess, he can make recess appointments. he can just install people in their positions without the senate ever voting for them. even though the senate would definitely vote for them if they took a vote. he's telling the united states senate to shut itself down so he can operate independently and on his own. even though they don't have any intention of stopping him, he doesn't even want to give them a say. i draw your attention to this because of all the discussion we have had as a country about trump's, you know, dictator on day one promises, his authoritarian values and promises and threats, one of the things that hasn't been talked about very much is that we have a three-part system of government, right? coequal branches of government, the judiciary, the legislature, and the executive. we have a three-part government.

but what's the rule of authoritarianism, there's one guy in charge. there can be no source of authority other than the dear leader. so if there has to be a congress, well it certainly shouldn't be a congress with any power. it shouldn't be a congress that has any role in governing. and frankly same thing for the courts, right? this is something that i've been trying to raise flags about in advance. sometimes you can feel something getting traction or not getting traction. i can tell this is not getting traction, but i'm just going to keep saying it because this is what's coming. we're already seeing it. watch for moves early onto consolidate power for him not just within the executive branch, which they are obviously doing, right. >> this whole thing about firing all the civil servants, firing all the career employees, it's about consolidating the executive branch so there's no source of authority and no directive force in the executive branch at all other than the president himself. that is about consolidating the

power of the executive branch. but also look to him to dis-empower, to hollow out, to neuter, to sideline the other two branches of government. the legislature, meaning the congress and the judiciary. trump does not fear being constrained by this iteration of congress, right, especially if the republicans take the house as well. trump doesn't fear being all that constrained by courts, not with john roberts as chief justice on this supreme court. he does not fear being constrained by those parts of our government in anything he wants to do. he's got them both on choke chains, frankly. but it is important any would-be authoritarian to not just have the obeadance of other of the government, he needs to have their ience, too.

there can't be three coequal branches of government. there can be one man who is the government and everything else is subservient to him. on this point amid everything we're learning about this transition -- amid everything we're learning about this transition, stick a flag in the fact he is demanding the u.s. senate shut itself down for him even though it's going to be controlled by republicans. there is no rational reason why he should not want the united states senate to confirm his appointees unless he doesn't want the senate to have that kind of job. he doesn't want the senate or the congress to have any job, frankly. the state, that's me. authoritarian governance means only one person matters and the rest of the government is just decoration. we are watching for that from him about the courts. we are already seeing it from him about what he is demanding from the congress.

heads up. lots to get to this hour. stay with us. to this hour stay with us

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donald trump's first term as president is not typically remembered as a time when bipartisanship flourished, but there were some exceptions. for instance, in 2019 the pretty hard right republican senator from wisconsin, ron johnson, he teamed up with a group of democrats including progressive massachusetts senator elizabeth warren to cosponsor a legitimately bipartisan bill that was called the presidential transition enhancement act. the main purpose of it was to try to smooth out the process of transitioning from one president to the next but also to handle possible conflicts of interests while a new president-elect is

staffing up. among other things the bill required candidates to devise an ethics plan, quote, an agreement that the eligible candidate will implement and enforce an ethics plan to guide the conduct of the transition. that bipartisan sort of good government reform bill passed the senate by unanimous consent. not a single senator opposed it. the bill then passed the house of representatives on a voice vote. again, no opposition. and in march of 2020, a super tuesday, in fact, donald trump signed it into law. and despite what you're thinking, which is, what, donald trump signed an ethics law? it wasn't that much of a surprise at the time, right? republicans were involved in crafting the legislation. it was a unanimous passage through the house and the senate. but also trump's own team said that there were things about the transition process that they did not like either, which they thought this bill would fix. so trump signed it. bipartisan reform of the

presidential transition act inspired in part by the concerns of the trump team, crafted in part by pro-trump far-right member of congress, signed by trump in 2020. well, now it's transition time again. it's time to put it all in place. and so now, naturally, here's it lead from "the new york times." quote, president-elect donald j. trump has not yet submitted a legally required ethics pledge stating he will avoid conflicts of interests and other ethical concerns while in office, raising concerns that his refusal to do so will hamper the smooth transition to power. and yes, this is the very same ethics pledge from the bipartisan bill that trump himself signed into law. he's not signing it. he's apparently ignoring all the requirements of that law including, according to "the new york times," blowing through the september 1st deadline to sign the transition agreement with the general services administration. why is that important? well, that provides for a variety of services to be made available to the president-elect including $7 million in funding

for the cost of the transition. that provision also puts a, quote, $5,000 cap on individual donations to the transition and requires the public disclosure of all its donors. by refusing to sign that agreement trump effectively faces no limit on contributions and does not need to name his donors publicly. and here's the best part. money raised by the transition is not regulated by any other government agency. so not to bottom line this too bluntly, but what this means is trump and the transition appears to be setting himself up to take unlimited funds from anywhere. he doesn't have to disclose where it's from, and he can use that money for any purpose with no oversight. what could possibly go wrong? would you like to pay a bribe to the president-elect? do you know where the mail slot is that's marked transition office? joining us now is ken, a politics reporter for "the new

york times." he broke this story. i really appreciate you making the time to be here. thank you. >> thank you, rachel. >> i want to ask you about the ethics and potential corruption concerns here, but i also want to ask you about whether this holdup means that there isn't a transition happening, meaning the literal transition to a new government in which the president-elect and his team get into the agencies and start learning what's there and what needs to be done, start seeing where their desks are and filing cabinets, none of that can happen in addition to some of these concerns about money, right? >> yeah, that's right. until the proper agreements are signed and until the ethics plan is submitted, the biden administration is legally prohibited from opening any of its doors, opening its files, even providing national security briefings to the trump transition. it's like a total wall. they can't give them anything. the biden would be in violation of law, and they're not going to

break that law and so far they haven't. the trump transition is seeing nothing. the kind of norm things you see in a transition, having people get access to different agencies, sharing of files, getting people so they can in the next 70 days prepare to take over the federal government is simply totally not happening, and it's because of the trump transition's refusal to sign the two agreements it was required to do in september and october and provide an ethics plan that conforms to federal law. >> is it your sense -- and this may be a questionable that's unanswerable, but is it your sense from your reporting that they intend to sign those pledges so that the transition can go ahead? or is it your sense they do not intend to sign those pledges, and they, in fact, just don't intend to have a transition. they just intend to have a transition on the 20th of january? >> well, one thing is my sense and the other is what they say. and what they've been saying to me and is that, of course, they're going to sign all the

necessary agreements and they're going to get it done. they first told me that in early october they were going to do it, and of course it's now more than a month since we've had the conversation and they haven't signed anything. people inside the federal government are telling they've made no progress in terms of getting them to sign anything. now, the fact of the matter is the one agreement with the general services administration you mentioned, probably could never get signed. it wouldn't hinder the transition as much as the other one, which is crucial. that's with the white house. that's the one that sets the guidelines for providing access to all agencies, which sets up the national security briefings, that allows a real transition to happen. if that's not signed, we're looking at a situation where trump and all of his appointees and the all the people he wants to work in his new administration would have to walk into, you know, 400-plus federal agencies completely cold on january 20th with no prior preparation. people who follow these kind of things, that's worries them a

lot because they bleep believe at the moment any administration or any time the u.s. government is at its most vulnerable is in these transition moments. if there was any risk of a foreign attack or foreign cyber espionage, it's going to have happen in transition moments. we're looking at a situation where the new incoming trump administration would have zero preparation coming in completely cold. the metaphor i think of is taking the final exam without ever having gone to class. >> i'm trying not to use words like final even in metaphors these days, but it seems like an appropriate use in this context. politics reporter for "the new york times," congratulations on this reporting. thanks for helping us understand it. >> thank you very much for your time. >> all right, much more ahead tonight. stay with us. right, much more tonight. stay with us

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“popular! you're gonna be pop-uuuu-larrr!” can you do defying gravity?! yeah, get my harness. buy one line of unlimited, get one free for a year with xfinity mobile. and see wicked, only in theaters november 22nd. for over 30 years the most prominent human rights organization in russia was an organization called memorial. and the purpose of memorial was to memorialize and tell the stories of the oppression and the bloodshed of it stalin era. it was one of the most important repositories of information about the brutal past of the soviet union. memorial, the organization, won the nobel peace prize in 2022. but stories about the russian government doing bad things, even doing bad things decades ago, those are not stories that vladimir putin likes. and, of course, one of the mall marks of authoritarian rule is

there cent be sources of information that compete with the dictator. so three years ago putin's government shut memorial down. they first labeled memorial a foreign agent, which then was just a quick hop, step, and a jump to the kremlin just ordering the group to be liquidated altogether. another branch of memorial that focused on present-day human rights they were accused of supporting terrorism. they got shutdown as well. putin's government also shutdown the anti-corruption movement led by opposition leader alexei navalny. how did he shutdown navalny's organization? by labeling it an extremist organization, which is the same label the russian government gives to isis and al-qaeda. one key sigitary of authoritarian drift is leaders giving themselves wide powers to shutdown civil society groups and media outlets. and the easiest way to do that is, of course, to declare some sort of emergency. the second way to do that is to label groups you don't like as

terrorists or as part of some nefarious outside influence. today with 70 days to go before donald trump is sworn in as second term as president, this is probably not a great time for united states congress to be considering a bill that would willingly hand over to the executive branch new wide latitude to unilaterally declare non-governmental organizations and media outlets to be terroristic. and yet that appears to be the plan in the house of representatives. republican leaders tomorrow are expected to fast track a bill that would allow the secretary of the treasury, whoever trump appoints to that role, to essentially shutdown any non-profit organization in the country that he or she declares be a terrorist-supporting organization. the aclu has joined more than 120 different human rights charitable and journalism organizations in urging lawmakers to vote against this bill.

i have to tell you back in april incredibly an earlier version of this bill got overwhelming support from almost every republican and democrat in the house of representatives. now with a trump administration on the horizon, this bill presumably looks very different to members of congress who have their eyes open. one democrat who didn't oppose this bill the last time around now tells the intercept that he will likely vote against it this time. again, this is expected to be voted on in the house tomorrow. even if the bill does pass the house, there's no reason to expect that the senate will take it up as long as the senate is controlled by democrats. democrats obviously have a lot of other priorities in the last days before trump takes office. but if you're worried about trump's stated desire to go after those he considers be his enemies and you're looking for ways the legislative branch of government could not help facilitate that, this vote tomorrow is a pretty good place to start. hold that thought. to start hold that thought.

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take your business to the next stage when you switch to shopify. republicans in the house are fast tracking a bill. they're expected to bring it up tomorrow, which would allow the trump administration to essentially shutdown any non-profit organization in the country by declaring that non-profit to be a, quote, terrorist supporting organization. joining us now is ezra levine, from indivisible, which is one of the groups trying to martial opposition to the group. a cofounder of the indivisible movement in 2016. you know indivisible from their

successful organizing against the trump administration the first time around including their heroic and ultimately successful ing to save obamacare. today with a second trump term on the horizon he's meeting with lawmakers, actively writing a new indivisible guide, a new instruction manual for indivisible specific brand of practical grass roots, locally based opposition this time to the second trump administration. ezra, it's really nice to see you. thanks very much for being here tonight. >> great to talk to you, rachel. >> indivisible is one of the groups along with the aclu and more than a hundred other civil society groups calling on congress to reject this bill. what seems important about this to you? >> look, i do not know ewhy on the first day that congress comes back into session after donald trump wins the election, that you would have democrats in congress voting to give him more power to go after his enemies. that is bonkers to me.

and i think it's a real test to see if democrats in this new trump era are willing to fight back. >> in terms of the indivisible approach to organizing, i have to -- we have to go back in time, ezra, and i want to ask you the short of nutshell to that practical indivisible grass roots operation how you developed it in 2016 in the wake of trump being president the first time, and whether or not that basic ethos still guides what you're doing today. >> look, trump wants to think he's all-powerful, and he wants you and everybody else to think he's all-powerful. but, i'm sorry, rachel, for the time being at least we still live in a federated, national democratic republic. and in that democratic republic, yes, we've got congress, and we've got 50 state republics where there are 19,000 villages and cities and towns in

inuncorporated areas where 335 million americans live and vote for hundreds of thousands of elected officials. every single drop of political power in this country flows from the people, every single drop of it. and it doesn't flow up through donald trump. it flows through the local elevel and the state level and the national level. but it's jeically based. so the key insight in the indivisible guide didn't come from us. it came from years and years of organizing on the left and the right. we saw the tea party do this. what they recommended folks do was focus on their local area, where they live, get folks to get there, organize them, and then focus on your elected officials, whether they're city elected officials, county elected officials, state elected officials or federal elected officials. and in this moment where you've got donald trump and what looks like a republican trifecta coming after us, using a slim election margin to justify a deeply unpopular policy agenda in this moment, what we have the power to do is to organize

locally and tell our elected officials, just say no, fight back. do not give this guy power that he does not have. that's what we did in 2017 and 2018, as you said, to save obamacare and also to build the largest mid-term margins in the history of the republic in 2018 and take back the house. >> ezra, obviously the election results this time around didn't land with the same shock value as they did in 2016 after trump had been elected once, i think everybody implicitly knew it could at least theoretically happen again, but i wanted to ask what you're hearing from indivisible members and what you're also hearing from people who may be interested in joining indivisible groups around the country. you haven't put out an official call for people to form indivisible group or collectively organize in any way, but i'm wondering what you're hearing just in this

first week for people's enthusiasm for doing the work you're talking about? >> rachel, it's been a week. and we put out the original indivisible guide it was in mid-december. and i've heard a lot of talk of, oh, gosh, it's been a few hours, a few days. where are the massive crowds? where's the resistance? here's what i've seen talking to folks around the country. i've joined statewide indivisible groups in georgia this weekend, and they did a little poll. they asked members how are you feeling right now, what are you going through? and folks are feeling everything, they're feeling angry, feeling scared. but the number one response from the georgia indivisible group, 70%, determined. we saw 11,000 of our members join us the day after the election, and then we joined on with move on, and worker parties and others to hold a nationwide call the next day. 150,000 people joined. we haven't het put ow a new guide. it's going to be coming out on wednesday, but the number one thing we're going to be calling on folks to do to gather in your

communities. so if you're interested in that, go to indivisible.org, come check it out, and reach out to a few friends and family members and start talking about what you're going to do in this moment to fight back. >> ezra levin, co-founder of indivisible and indivisible.org, thanks for joining us. keep us posted. we'll be talking to you ongoing and weeks ahead. >> looking forward, rachel. thanks. >> we'll be right back. forwardl thanks >> we'll bt back ng mousse. 24 hour. hydrating curl definition. style your life the way you want. ♪♪ tresemme, style your way.

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