past week or so. there is really interesting thing here happening because i'm not going to geek out on you but the bond market is ling a little bit of a different story. if you have these tax cuts and extra spending what does that mean -- >> are you talking about the yield curve? >> i am. gosh. do i have to put money in the square jar? there is a square jar? watch the space because enthusiasm about a donald trump presidency and enthusiasm over the fact that we are not in court right now trying to decide who is the president. that decision was important for investors. >> why you diversify and you hold bonds and stocks. >> stock market is up 91% in five years. >> not five days but five years. >> it's up 785% since march 2009. buy and hold. and presidents take too much credit and too much blame for what happens in the economy and the stock market. >> all individual moment is a snapshot. >> right. >> christine romans, thanks very

much. that does it for me. "deadline white house" starts right now. ♪ ♪ it's 4:00 in new york. a flurry of appointments the last 24 hours and bringing donald trump's future ghings into fuller invoice. sources tell nbc news that trump is expected to tap florida senator marco rubio for secretary of state. rubio once called trump a con artist but over the years he is one of trump's biggest boosters. more on that later in the hour. we begin to a profile cost that the post that donald trump really, really values in his administration, loyalty. nbc news reports that south dakota governor kristy noem is

to be appointed homeland security department security secretary and it came after this memorable moment. ♪♪ >> we once aired all 39 minutes. since you've already seen it, you know it goes on for 39 excruciating minutes. the agency that will be responsible for carrying out one of the incoming trump administration's key campaign promises and that is mass deportations of millions of undocumented immigrants here in the united states. noem will head the department that oversees fema and helping americans recover from national disasters, the department responsible for the tsa. they protect americans when they fly. the dhs will be responsible for security, for the 2026 world cup and the 2028 olympics, both of

which will be held in the united states during donald trump's second term in office. now after going through her resume the only obvious qualification we have found for her is her blind loyalty to donald trump but maybe you'll see it differently. here is a sample of her record. she gained national prominence by refusing to shut down south dakota during the pamed pandemic and they had the third highest death rate in the world. in a memoir she was caught fabricating meetings with world members like north korea kim jong-un and she is banned by nine native american renks for speaking outright lies about drug cartels operating on those reservations. of course, in her own words, she admitted to shooting her own dog because she couldn't train it properly. news that was so shocking and offensive, even inside the maga

bubble that it appeared to tank her chances of becoming trump's vp. we start with sarah matthews with us and jacob soborof. author of "separated." also at the table is political columnist and host of the podcast for puck msnbc, john heilemann is back. i start with you and the serious belief among trump's voters and supporters that this will happen. just give me a sense of how many people he successfully deported the first time and how much larger the operation will be that kristy noem will be responsible for this time? >> less than obama who deported

more in a u.s. presidency. let me back up. mass deportation is family separation by another name. what kristy noem has to do is make the decision that kristen nielsen made in this moment by the political people in the trump operation and namely stephen miller and others who pushed his policy and would she sign a memo for family separation to dlibt deport people that are intertwined with the -- people in our schools, in our churches, in our places of work, who are our neighbors, who make the economy go in this country every single day and most importantly, is she willing to stomach the blowback that this country saw, that the world saw unilateral, but sort of

universal conversation including the pope to something that separates the families in the interior and exactly what they are proposing. i know they are saying sort of felons, not families. that was the obama line, actually, back when he deported more people than any other president in history. are they just going with obama plan or going further? i'm curious to hear from this administration the future an practicalities of this and it's on kristy noem. i don't know how many people are in south dakota. 260,000 employees if the department and is she ready for that? a question she has to answer. >> sarah, dhs is a relatively new government agency that has cropped up after 911. it does have, though, the highest profile events that happen in this country. for someone as vain as donald trump has proven to be who might take pride in pulling off an

olympics or a world cup, what does it signal to you that someone with no -- again, we looked at her record and we don't find any obvious experience with events of that scale really ever happening on her watch. what for you explains this pick? >> i think that is all comes down to loyalty like you noted. her record, she distant have any background in national security or law enforcement that you would typically see to choose someone to head up this agency. and the mission of the department of homeland security is a vital one. it's vast. it covers things like you mentioned from fema to secret service falls under dhs and, obviously, there has been failures at secret service right now. and then the border crisis. something that donald trump ran on that was a key part of his campaign and why i think you saw people switch to support him in this election. and to imagine that she is going to be in charge of all those things is a little bit alarming and i think it's been telling, too, that even maga world, there

has been some pushback on this selection. i think not everyone is necessarily thrilled with her selection. she turned off a lot of people even those within maga world when she was pushing her memoir and telling the story about killing her puppy because she couldn't train it. i think it's worth noting that kristy noem has killed more migrant. to hear she is in charge of this angle is alarming but i think trump's other cabinet selections, even if i think a marco rubio is spineless, i think is more than qualified to be secretary of state. whereas, i don't know if people can say the same about kristy noem. >> john, let me show you reporting from myer colleague at nbc news. she writes this, quote.

this is corey lewandowski that he described on the first trump term. >> i read today about a 10-year-old gill with down syndrome who was taken from her mother and put in a cage. >> wa, wa. >> did you say wa, wa to a 10-year-old? >> i say you can pick anything you want. >> how dare you! >> heading to the top of dhs. >> so many things to say. >> we got two hours, baby. >> i mean, you know, i think for a lot of people -- i know for those of us who love our dogs, that was it for -- you know, it's interesting, donald trump, the former president and future president has no use for dogs. no surprise and maybe not a coincidence he doesn't find that

off-putteding in her selection. the following things are all true, that the mass deportation plan is this year's -- trump 2.0 version of build the wall and it's the highlights, the banner headline, long promised during the campaign and for years he has been talking about it. it's the case unlike building the wall, the political risks entailed are much, much higher. a serious attempt to mass deport 20 million undocumented immigrants from this country would require federal law enforcement, state law enforcement, local law enforcement to do nothing but that. and the first time something went wrong, which it would quite soon, where a kid got shot. somehow rounding up people and putting them in cages and putting them in trucks to get them out of the country on that scale, the risks of a high

profile human catastrophe happening that would backlash against donald trump are very high. also the business community of america is not for this policy. this is a huge number of people who are -- i say this cynically but it's just a fact, who are cheap labor for american business. so there is a certain amount of deportation the business community will tolerate. on a mass scale that trump has talked about in certain cases, there would be a huge backlash from a lot of big americans and people again that donald trump does care about to some extent. there is a question in my mind about -- so what the scale of this going to be? and how much of is going to be a thing designed to look as though there are mass deportations happening when they are not? in fact, mass deportations are happening. i will say that among the many things that are both curious and extraordinarily disturbing about donald trump's relationship with elon musk, one of them is in the same way that twitter and/x got

turned into a propaganda and disinformation machine for trump in the campaign. i think we all have to be very careful and very vigilant in our business to make sure that that platform and associated other platforms aren't being used either to minimize or exaggerate the degree to which this policy isn't backed being garted.forwa? >> what do you mean? >> i have students of this subject and one i saw in chicago yesterday. his name is corey and studying this for a couple of decades. her comment to me yesterday was there is a way in which this could be -- like look out for the possibility that this will be done for show, that the social networks that want to amplify trump's message will claim it's taking place on a larger basis than it really is. >> like wag the dog? >> a little bit in way, yes. not the phrase she used but notion that elon musk and the

joe rogan's of the world saying this is great and getting rid of the illegals that it will rage bait for the left and the right will all go crazy because think he they think it's all great. i'm -- it could be the other way. we could also see it minimized. the questions of what is actually happening on the ground, this is one of the great challenges for journalism in this area and challenging to be implement and it could be minimized or exaggerated and we got to know we know what is going on when they try to do whatever they are going to on building front. >> i think we have to be very careful. i think it very well turn out that way because practically speaking they can't deport 20 million people from the united states of america. remember, john kelly, secretary of homeland security sat up before congress saying i can't imagine any other reason than to separate families. the parent was a criminal, something wrong with the mother and father and the child was in danger. then they went on to do what

human rights called tore tune american of pediatrics called it government sanctioned child abuse. what i learned covering it and they talked a big game. ultimately, they went through with it. if they say they are going to do something, at least in this instance, they went through with it in a way i don't think -- so far, that the george w. bush appointed judge that stopped the policy and said this is one of the most shameful chapters in the history of our country and don't take my word for it. one day i hope it's not us talking about it and i hope it's the 5500 kids. bless you. >> you made me sneeze. >> who are taken away from their parents that tell that story. that it's the american citizen families who were deported during a program in 1954 who were deported in that operation from dwight d. eisenhower and names so racist we shouldn't say it on television. they do these things when they say they are doing them, at least the pattern we have seen so far. they have to figure out how to

do it and the people in there right now, tom homan who executed the family separation policy and so did stephen miller, i don't think these guys do things for show. >> i want to be really clear. i'm not saying don't worry about it. i'm saying the opposite. the lever of power that trump now has with the richest man in the world controlling one of the central communications platforms in this area, allows for that platform to be used for either to minute eyes what is really going on or to exaggerate what vale going on, depending, my only point is not to say let trump off the hook and nothing terrible is happening here. it could be horrible and worst thing we could see or it could be a fraud or both in some cases. my main thing when we sit here speculating what is going to happen today, the only thing important for our businesses is we have to be on the ground in the field and being vigilant and being clear about what is actually happening in whatever direction it realities to the rhetoric. >> sarah, let me bring you in on this.

i think as we look at the sweep of the swing states and we look at the signs that were proudly carried. mass deportations i think was the sign most closely associated with the four days of the convention, we look at the length trump went to to double and triple and quadruple down, even against the pleas from republican governors and mayors after the lie about eating the dogs and the cats in springfield, ohio. i just want to introduce another dynamic in to this and that is the much bally infrastructure week and it never happened and largely due to incompetence and ability to line up the cars in a three-car parade. do you see a different level of confidence in his ability to marshal the federal government and bend it to his well this time? >> i do think that during the a

first trump term, he was learning how government operated and i think now going into a second term, he knows how to effectively pull those levers and make things happen. i think him putting in a loyalist like a kristy noem, she won't have any hesitations about carrying out his agenda but i'm sure as he continues to fill out his cabinet there will be more selections like that where loyalty was prioritized over competency. so i do think that there is a chance that maybe the mass deportations was just a messaging tactic to try to get people on board to vote for him, but i know that during a first term, oftentimes, a lot of what the pushback used to try to curb some of trump's worst instincts or try to knock at him to pursue more radical policy ideas was saying, sir, this could hurt your chances at re-election. obviously, now in a second trump term, that is not going to be anything of consideration. and so i do think that you'll see him execute on these things. i do think that i'm appointing

tom homan to be border czar and elevating stephen miller to be deputy white house chief of staff or policy indicates a seriousness of how he wants to follow through on some of these more hard-line immigration policies. but only time will tell if they are able to low gistically execute on them. i think the appointment of noe m. shows that they definitely will try to follow through with some of these campaign promises. >> i want to keep pressing on this. the competence the obama benchmark, how much that will drive it just to get one more -- >> you know that will -- >> of course. i have to sneak in a quick break and we will pick that up on the other side. also ahead more on trump's last 24 hours and the dozens appointments he is planning on making to his new administration as marco rubio as has been mentioned, one. time outspoken harsh critic of the man who would be president will now be his top diplomat around the world. in between, he became an apolicy

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we are back. there is some really amazing new reporting in "the wall street journal" we just got and i'm

going to share it with you. quote, trump drafted executive order would create board to purge generals and it could race concerns about the military. the trump transition team is considering a draft executive order that establishes a board of retired senior military personnel with the power to review three and four star officers and to recommend removals of any deemed unfit for leadership. if trump appears the order it could fast track the order of generals and add miles an houraled found to be lack in requisite leadership qualities. about you it could the create a chilling effort on top military officers given the president-elect's past vow to fire woke generals. i don't know if paul is warning

of this but had he a purge yesterday that is the headline in "the wall street journal" today. sarah matthews, this feels like something i know you've talked about being sent out to lie and refute the story about donald trump believing that the men and women who die serving our country are suckers and losers when it was first reported in "the atlantic" and confirmed by john kelly in a statement and in his own voice in a tape ahead of the election. how vexing was it for donald trump not to get the military to heal to his command and wishes? >> i do think it's an issue that has long perplexed him. we know that from john kelly and his interview that he did with "the new york times" that john kelly said that trump wanted generals like hitlers. he wants people who will carry out every wish and demand of his and receive zero put-pack. hearing about this potential draft executive order is, obviously, alarming and concerning and something i was raising the alarm about how he

would reshape our government and reshape it to fit him and his vision. so i do think if they decide to follow through on this, that kind of shows what type of leader that he wants to be and he will politicized military. i don't think it extends to, quote, woke generals and those pushing for that in the military. i think would want to eliminate any of the generals who aren't in the line with trump's vision and maybe push back on some of his worst instincts. so it's going to be really telling to see if there is enough blowback on this or if they choose to pursue it once he is back in office. >> let me read some more from the story that broke after we came on the air. "the wall street journal" reporting this. quote.

the draft order says it aims to establish a review that focused, quote, on leadership capabilities strategic readiness and commitment to military excellence. the draft doesn't specify what officers need to do or present to show if they meet those starpeds but the draft order originated with one of several outside policy groups collaborating with the transition team. >> they all need to bend a knee is what they need to do. you know, one tries to maintain a certain degree of not being excess live alarmist in these cases. yesterday, it was we got to get rid of -- in the senate because trump just has to have his way. he has to go through fast and you don't get me recess appointments, what is what i'm going to do. how they want to strip the justice department and the fbi down to the studs and

christopher wray is wondering if he is forcibly be removed. now we are talking about the military. we have three branches and when people talk about what would happen if a budding authoritarian got into the -- what would with they do? they seek to either formally or informally delegitimatize the legislature and do ma becomes a rubber stamp for putin. these other areas that aren't really the civil service is not -- is either -- it's kind of independent. civil service gs they operate and stay on regardless of who -- not political appointees. commander in chief controls the military but those in the military and four-star generals serve whoever the president is. fbi is like that. the doj, in large extent, is like that also. there are little appointees on top of it but staffed by the people with the rule of law. when you start to reshape those

institutions, those are the moves of a classic dictator or a classic authoritarian. we are not a week into this transition yet and you're already seeing the early signs -- we will see if these things come to past and maybe the executive order will go away. i don't want to be either be credit loess or took alarmist but these are the signs of what would happen if you i'm going to start to become exerting ing - deeper into the parts of it that are not -- have not traditionally been under political control. these early ink lings of that and i think everyone should see them what they are comparatively around the world, this is the playbook. >> i have not seen the "the wall street journal" article but i'm hearing how the echoes of homeland security was run in the moment of that family separation was implemented and afterwards. chad wolf and kevin -- who

followed her were acting. tom homan who is basically the driving force of the family separation policy was the acting i.c.e. director for his tenure there. stephen miller would often reach out and we talk about this on the film low political apointes to carry out the wishes of the homeland security. i'm hearing you describe it in the military and i have seen it within the department of homeland security this isn't conjecture but it happened during the first term of dhs and how family separation carried out and how the immigration policies subsequent to family separation were carried out during the trump administration. >> sarah, you lend your voice to the harris campaign to help people imagine what a second trump presidency would be like. i think john heilemann is trying to strike this balance of what we are seeing and, obviously, someone took this draft and went to "the wall street journal" and turning to the media, another

institution very much in the trump 2.0 sites, right, as a threat, as a deterrent to something to be managed. what is your sort of mindset about this very, very deliberate and public effort to dismantle the way the pentagon operates? >> yeah. i think that we -- many of us -- these former trump staffers who spoke out and went as far as endorsing kamala harris, although never having voted for a democrat in my life prior until this election, we did so because we were worried about things exactly like this. we were worried that trump would try to gain as much power as possible and reshape our government in order to carry out every wish and demand that he wants. so this is, to me, the trump team floating this idea to see is this something that we can get away with? they leaked it to the media to see what the response would be and depending on the response,

maybe they won't go through with it but is there a real chance they won't care and they will pursue it any ways because it's going to come down to what donald trump wants, ultimately. i think it shows that he has no respect for our institutions. obviously, as you noted, he has no respect for the as an institution and he didn't respect our military members as you pointed out earlier and think of our fallen soldiers as suckers and losers and wants his generals to emulate hitler. being a former trump staffer and now a critic of his could become to be true. i'm not too proud to admit that i hope warning i said about donald trump i hope is wrong. i want to see our country succeed but if this is the path we are heading on, i'm very worried about what our country's future will look like moving forward. >> sarah matthews, just to

underscore what you're saying, i'll read one quote from "the wall street journal," a breaking story since we have been on the air. this is a quote from a former pentagon official. quote, do they start wearing maga hats in formation to signal who is where at one senior former pentagon official? the potential for this to go wrong is infinite. sarah matthews, jacob soboroff, thank you for starting us off today. for more on jacob's new movie, now is the time to pull our your cell phone and scan the qr code on your screen for tickets to "separated." it's in theaters now and new screenings having been added in washington, d.c. and san francisco. it is that important because of its broadcast premiere on msnbc on december 7th. please check it out. please see it. jacob will be back to talk us through whatever comes next. thank you for being here with us. >> thank you. up next for us, as has been mentioned, marco rubio is the

incoming secretary of state and he is as skilled as they come in today's republican party over the last eight years and he has been able to change his own views and positions to meet the maga movement and moment. today, he gets his reward for doing so. how a shape shifting marco rubio will now be responsible for ushering trumpism back to center of the world stage. that is next. er of the world stage that is next jon hamm: at st. jude, there's one thing that makes us all family-- finding cures, saving children. one in five kids in the us still won't survive cancer. join our st. jude family. we need you. please donate now. your record label is taking off. but so is your sound engineer. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. our advanced matching helps find talented candidates, so you can connect with them fast. visit indeed.com/hire

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fot for the country's top diplomat, donald trump is expected to nominate florida senator marco rubio for his secretary of state. just just. >> if they hadn't inherited $200 million do you know why donald trump would be right now? >> no, no, no! >> we have a con artist in the fronted runner for the republican party. a guy who made a career out of telling people lies. it is time to open our lies. we cannot allow a con artist to get access to the nuclear codes of the united states of america! >> it does appear that all of that is water under the bridge for marco rubio.

marco rubio has evolved as they say to meet trump and the maga movement. "the new york times" reports this. quote. rubio was elected to the senate in 2010 and staked out a position as a foreign policy hawk taking hard lines on china, iran, venezuela, and cuba in particular. i initially found himself at odds with those republicans who were more skeptical about s abroad but echoed trump on russia's war against ukraine saying the conflict has reached a stalemate and need to be brought to a conclusion. as secretary of state, rubio will find himself dealing with an inherent tension between our national interests and trump's view of the world. in particular, his fondness for and the alignment with autocrats like vladimir putin. as "the new york times" points out today, quote.

joining our coverage is john hudson, national security reporter for "the washington post." also joining us is former republican congressman from florida, now an msnbc political analyst, david. john heilemann is still here. john hudson, take us inside how marco rubio came to land the spot as secretary of state. >> if confirmed, this is a huge win for the conservative wing of the republican party the establishment foreign policy wing of the republican party. look. rubio is a bona fide hawk when it comes to latin america or asia or middle east. he is always staked out some of the most hawkish positions in the party. start in the beginning of his political clear, but you got to remember that marco rubio today is not the marco rubio of 2016, whether it's economics,

immigration, or foreign policy. he has tried to modulate his views on these conflicts. you know, he has remained a tough hawk on china, which is still popular within both the maga and the conservative wing of the foreign policy apparatus but he has modulated on europe. he used to be one of the toughest critics of russia and vladimir putin. he has begun to criticize the conflict in ukraine and u.s. spending on it. he has begun to, you know, forecast a view that this needs to wrap up. you know, the marco rubio of 2016 would have been somebody that says as long as it takes, he would have mirrored language of president joe biden. >> david jolly, let me show you what adam kinzinger had to say

about the rubio pick. >> you know, marco rubio has been, obviously, kind of change -- i think he even voted against ukraine, which was very surprising. again, i'm willing to, you know, give as much leeway as possible but, you know, marco has shown his ability to kind of change for whatever donald trump demands so it really comes down to what does donald trump demand? >> what is amazing is that loyalty is intention with subverting a past public statement, right? trump seems to -- this seems to be something that is different about the first time around. he seems to delight in having on the ticket someone who he was able to convert from, again, j.d. vance described him as hitler. marco rubio, quote, a con artist. trump seems to delight as much in the converted as the totally

subservient. >> yeah. for marco rubio, privately it must be a painful moment. in 2010 he was the future of the part party and he was going to be the next republican party and imagine republicans leading on a pathway to legal status. he got burned by that. then he was never quite the same and he was going to leave the senate in 2016 saying he didn't want to go back and hated it and said the senate was a terrible place and donald trump wrecked his presidential aspirations down the stretch. john used the word mot dulate. i grooe withagree with that. i think the most telling part of all, kind of heartbreaking for people who followed the generally hawkish new marco rubio. 2010 was his abandonment of ukraine and the people there in last april. he was one of 15 republicans to vote against the aid package.

you'll recall how long that was delayed and how dire the circumstances were that the ukraine yep people ian people n. he did that when he had an idea he might be in the vp stakes for donald trump and he find a new position that went counter to his hawkish position on russia the past ten years or so. i think another intriguing one -- look. in some ways, marco rubio is at least very qualified for this role. notwithstanding his caving and flip-flopping and willing to do anything for trump. he is qualified through his work in the senate on the intelligence matters. he has been a leader in this area among republicans. it could be much worse for a trump pick. marco rubio is qualified. but what will be interesting how he and a half gaits russia and ukraine and probably just surrender to putin which is what trump wants to do. what does he do on north korea? you know? this was also a position where he has been extremely hawkish in a bipartisan way with tim cain. we call donald trump was happy to play footsee with north

korea. i think we will see marco rubio have to cave more than he has the past 140 years or so. >> the last two folks to have this job described trump as, quote, a eefing moron. mike pompeo was banished from the second term. i don't know if rubio is asking him for advice today. we will ask john heilemann that question after the break. heile question after the break (sneeze) (hooves approaching) not again. your cold is coming! your cold is coming! thanks...revere. we really need to keep zicam in the house. only if you want to shorten your cold! when you feel a cold coming, shorten it with zicam (revere: hyah)

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john heilemann, i think the rubio sort of exhale is a significant of sort of symptom and it's not about as you were saying in the break, it's not about the conduct of u.s. foreign policy. it's almost about someone who presents and if you go back to how trump picked his entire cabinet it was all about castings. what do you think is behind this? >> look. i think you've seen some choices. everything here has to be calibrate. you're asking me how the world is seeing the business community or in washington. a couple of picks have been normallies people live on what you call? >> earth one. >> the place where people live? people on earth one say that could have been so much worse. >> that is rubio. >> suzy wiles is tried to keep trump on track in the campaign. >> she got rid of -- she wasn't

throwing gasoline on the fire, right? then he picked stephen miller to be deputy chief of staff. that is a maga pick and not a normi pick. i think people exhale about rubio, we are not talking about consistency or spying or anything else or what is foreign policy views of his are? it would be hard to know because he is capitulated to get to the point where he could get this job. people think that is not going to pour gasoline on the fire. he is a normi so a little bit of an exhale about that. if you think about how trump foreign policy was made it was the same way that trump he runs his campaign. you put a bunch of political strategists around him and trump does what he wants to do. trump foreign policy in the first term, rex tillerson? affected trump exactly how? you know? normally, you have a president. you got diplomacies run out of state and the military is run

out of -- and national security adviser and three important figures the president is taking advice from those three and not what happened in the first trump term. i think trump is more unhinged and more unbound than he was is marco rubio really going to have a voice that somehow will affect what trump does in terms of ukraine or china or north korea? or the middle east? i don't see any reason to think that. it's better to have a normi in. than a maga hut and hair on fire. sure. i'm not sure what is trump really going to do on ukraine and nato with putin? is he going to listen to little marco? a guy he called little marco. i think that is implausible. >> jonathan, take me through your reporting on the early contacts and communications between trump and putin and his team. >> yeah.

so they did have their first communication since trump won the election. and it was a conversation that did not go off the rails as much as some of his other communications with world leaders have gone. delivered a message as far as we have been told on our read-outs of, you know, don't escalate in ukraine. we have a lot of guns in europe. and -- but also talked about the issue of territory. it was a brief discussion. any time that discussion of territory comes up is something that is extremely alarming to ukrainians. they want to be at the table when there is any discussion about their sovereignty. trump has said privately and some of his advisers have said publicly that the only way to end this conflict is for russia to gain some of the territory that its captured and gain

sovereignty over it in exchange for peace. this, obviously, gets to the heart of the most controversial aspects of an end game in ukraine so there is a lot of anxiety going around around that. and it's definitely something that is going to be watched significantly. i can tell you, you know, another significant thing about getting a normi is rubio has a rolioex of contacts. it might not be big but he would have a lot of officials burrowing in the department and having an influence as well. >> john hudson, thank you for your reporting. david jolly and john heilemann, thank you for your wisdom. >> i'd like to hear from hudson what the crazier calls were like. he said this does not go far off the rails. i'd like another segment to hear what the other off the rails

conversation was. >> can you do that, john hudson? >> i would love to. >> you have 24 hours to empty our your reporter's notebook for us. we will be ready. another break. book for us we will be ready another break. doctor office visits and hospital stays. but if you want even more benefits, you can choose a medicare advantage plan like the ones offered at humana. our plans combine original medicare with extra benefits in a single, convenient plan with $0, or low monthly plan premiums. these plans could even include prescription drug coverage with $0 copays on hundreds of prescriptions. plus, there's a cap on your out-of-pocket costs. most plans include dental, vision, even hearing coverage. there are $0 copays for in-network preventive services, and much more. get the most from medicare with a humana medicare advantage plan. call today to learn more. remember, annual enrollment for medicare advantage plans ends december 7th. humana. a more human way to health care.

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(intercom) t minus 10... (janet) so much space! that open kitchen! (tanya) ...definitely the one! (ethan) but how can you sell your house when we're stuck on a space station for months???!!! (brian) opendoor gives you the flexibility to sell and buy on your timeline. (janet) nice! (intercom) flightdeck, see you at the house warming. today, the four women and two physicians suing idaho over that state's abortion laws began telling their stories in court. their suit argues that the women suffered, quote, unimaginable tragedy and health risks due to idaho's abortion bans and that doctors there lack sufficient

guidance about when they can perform the procedure without risking jail time. idaho has two laws restricting abortion and neither policy makes an exception for fatal fetal ies which is a focus of the lawsuit and similar to the texas suit last year where the lead plaintiff was amanda. they are getting a different outcome because in texas we didn't get to go to trial. we will keep you updated on those women as they share their stories in front of the idaho district court. ahead for us, trump ran on the economy and promising big, big, big things on that front. but his actual plans stand to make things much, much worse. for the american people. the next hour of "deadline white house" starts after a quick break. don't go anywhere. break. don't go anywhere. this thri. lost her card, not the vibe. the soul searcher, is finding his identity,

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♪♪ ♪♪ when i handed over the economy to donald trump we had had 75 straight months of job growth, and i said here you go and all he did was giving a tax cut to people who did not need one. and drove up the deficit in the process, and now he wants to do it again. hi, again, everyone. 5:00 in new york. a huge pillar of the 2024 campaign was this fight over prosperity, and central to donald trump's campaign and candid assy candidacy is the promise of a better economy than they have now under biden. and yet, with the stuff that

donald trump has said out loud and from the podium and in white papers that he has said he's going to do experts and economists say that those things, that stuff, will have the opposite effect. reporting in "the new york times" quote, the s&p 500 is on a six-day winning streak as investors pile into the trump trade rally on expectation that the president elect will cut taxes and red tape and bolster growth, but alarm bells are ringing even inside the banks. some wall street economists continue to warn that donald trump plans for tariffs and tax cuts will reignite inflation and add to the deficit, and even as his allies say the market rally shows that the traditional experts are wrong, don't be surprised if the president-elect finds a tighter economic conditions and a rested bond market forced to rethink his agenda. the tariffs that trump so proudly proudly touts to everything, the

answer to rising prices could actually make prices rise more, make things more expensive than they are today. economists estimate this, quote, if president-elect donald trump follows through with sweeping new tariffs on anything made in china, your next iphone could cost rough low $300 more, end quote, and while we do not know with trump if he's ever going to do the stuff he says he's going to do, he's going to go through with the tariffs, the tariffs could hurt u.s. producers, as well. especially farmers, something claire mccaskill mentioned yesterday. china is the largest buyer of u.s. agricultural exports making trump's proposal to institute new tariffs on shipments from china coming to the u.s. the largest open question, quote, grain farmers have bad memories of the last trade war. that's according to phil flinn, senior market analyst with price futures group. the first trade bout between the

u.s. and china in 2018 resulted in losses of more than $27 billion for u.s. agricultural export according to a report by the national corn growers association and american soybeans association. the open question remains for a country where a majority of our fellow americans and the majority of voters savoted on, the reason that they sent trump back, trump stated policies on the economy make their lives worse. the question is where we start the hour with some of our favorite experts and friends. msnbc senior contributing editor michelle norris is here, ali velshi and host of the on brand podcast, donny deutsch is here. donny, just start because you and i talk all of the time about sort of perception versus reality, and change is

inescapable political aphrodisiac and rage about the economy was something that biden and harris just could not push back against. >> the tariff question is a big question and obviously, if i talked to my friends who manufacture stuff they say it's very simple on a tariff. if this cup cost $10 and put a 20 cent tariff the consumer is paying $12 for it. the question is how real is it going to be and will he do tariffs across the board? a lot of his tariffs were blustered to say i'm going to get china in line because the deficit will get so crazy at a certain point. the street, my friends are giddy because the street is loving what's happening. they see less regulation. they see top down and it's a tbd what it means for the consumer. this is clearly what the consumer voted on and tariffs don't necessarily solve inflation going in, conceptually they're going the other direction. we're going to see. >> ali? >> two things, this inflation versus tariffs issue is

complicated. tariffs, for all history, competing, the ones we have with mexico and the ones we have with canada hard fought over decades. to now suggest, you talk about agriculture, canada put restrictions on u.s. dairy it killed farmers. you put tariffs on other people, they put tariffs on you. there are instances when tariffs are useful when you want them to do better with human rights, when you want them to raise wages so you're more competitive with them. this is not a sophisticated approach. you're right about that. if you're one of the people at the ftc and wants to be able to merge and buy companies, this is probably going to be a good four years for you, but tariffs cause inflation and inflation as you know is much harder to deal with in a recession. recession, we know, you cut rates and put stimulus in the economy and it 100% of the time

thing. that doesn't help the people whose price of eggs were more than four years ago, in terms of the methodology, this federal reserve and jerome powell have been doing, if not the popular thing, probably turns out to be the right thing. >> is that why he's in donald trump's sights to fire? >> it's easier to say. if he gets out i can lower interest rates. you can't lower interest rates and increase tariffs and hope inflation goes down, if inflation wasn't as driving a force as it seems to be in this election his answer is the wrong one. >> lowering the corporate tax rates to 15%. the argument from the top down is it will stimulate businesses and hire more people and it will put the deficit through the roof. >> they did last time, too. >> these are things that economists are arguing about and we are going to see. >> michelle, vice president harris tried to make this argument to the country.

she narrowed the gap on the question of the economy, obviously not enough. what is your sort of sense of the conversations and the democratic party about how to re-engage the american worker and the american voter on the issue of the economy and get back on offense? >> you know, the democrats are going to be engaged in a months-long after-action report to look carefully at the reports and figure out how to connect with voters on this issue. they -- if you look at what people are saying about her campaign before the election, people were describing this as a perfect campaign against the odds. they thought they were reaching out on these voters and they weren't. we are hearing the guests talk about how wall street is responding to this. if donald trump is looking to get attaboys and back slapping from his friends on wall street he might get that based on the performance on the s&p right now, but if you look at what's happening in people's lives. this is the time of year when people have the jar on the kitchen counter where they're just stocking away extra money so they can afford christmas

gift, so they can afford to have a nice holiday. he has a very difficult time in trying to deliver for people who will be tracking the price of eggs and the price of bacon and the price of housing, and if he cannot do that quickly, particularly after the holidays when people will feel the holiday hangover after spending so much, he's going to have a rough start to his administration. as for the democrats, they're going to have to figure out how to message to people and how to connect with people. there's a lot of talk about how democrats talk to normal people. i don't necessarily like that language because it suggests that there are people who are normal and then there's everybody else. i think they have to figure out how to let people know that they care about the condition that they're in, that they actually can signal not just with policy, but make people -- because that's what, you know, alexandria ocasio cortez did this expert iment on instagram

and said tell me why you voted for me and you voted for donald trump. both of you seemed to care about us, and you understood our plight and that was a very big surprise to democrats who thought they were reaching and thought they were connecting with people and realizing that they really just weren't? >> i mean, i went out after trump was elected the first time to erie, pa, to the counties that flipped from obama, to obama-trump and it was this promise, right? because he hadn't been president yet, but it was also this cultural resonance of trump's rage against the machine. >> yeah. >> i think what seems to have -- and listen, you shouldn't have to effort feeling in people's economic pain. you should walk down the aisle of a grocery store and you will see people struggling to make choices. a carton of cereal is $11, and milk is $7 and you stand there

ask am i a bad mother if i buy the non-organic. shopping has become stressful and the idea that trump is the answer is the part of it that people need to understand because there's no way that trump knows the cost of anything. >> the economy turns out to be one. >> we will drift off around this table, it's going to be this, it's going to be this. >> so here's the thing, all over the world, every incumbent government, almost every incumbent government since the pandemic has been thrown out because they can't bet over this particular part of it. your eggs are still 20% more money than they were in 2020. you can have all sorts of reasons for it. you can say that america is leading the world in economic growth, which it is. you can say america is down 2% inflation, which it is. we have low unemployment, which it is. if we're doing what you just described paying for chicken, eggs and milk every week, the statistics on your side this is tough for you. your eggs will never be cheaper.

the only way your eggs will be cheaper is if the economy collapses. >> basically, we hit covid, the world was going to end and they did the right thing. both administrations. >> correct. >> we're here -- >> and everybody in the world did it. >> we had to do it and so here's where we are and i'm concerned that inflation is just not going to be going away. >> which is why you have to stick to it and that's what donald trump is suggesting he won't with the fed. jerome powell said he will not quit, and it sounds like trump doesn't want that fight, but inflation is hard to fight and that's not a conversation that you will have necessarily in erie, pennsylvania, but it's something people like you had in the white house. it's hard to fight and we haven't had it in 40 years. it almost wrecked japan. japan was going to be the most important country in the world and it's not now. >> let me read the latest reporting about the fight with jerome powell because i think people were watching the national security agencies and donald trump has sort of successfully steam rolled across all those norms. i think this fight with powell

may actually be the new norm-busting question or hot spot that we're watching. >> right. >> this is "the wall street journal's" reporting, when asked if he would resign, powell offered a one-word reply, quote, no. powell, an executive with a law degree was pressed to explain his rationale. he delivered another response, quote, not permitted under the law. his unflinching lay bare the prospect that any attempt to force powell to leave before his term ends in 2026 will likely be resolved in an unprecedented legal battle. quote, if the president were to succeed in this that would mean every future chair is subject to removal at the whim of the president from 200 to '17. i don't think that's a precedent jay would want to set, and that's why i think he would fight it. this is a humongous precedent. the story of trump is a story of precedent bursting and busting. >> there's money involved here. >> and ramifications for the

economy. >> and he's got a lot of wealthy people around him, smart business people around him, and i think this is -- this is one of the areas that you're not going to see the norm. >> i'm hoping the smart people around him tell him that the independence of a central bank is a tenet upon which all western economies are built. the idea that you do not politicize the central bank. there are people that have beef with the central bank and that's valid, but the idea that it would come under political control by firing a fed chair in the middle of their term. he got rid of the last fed chair and he just didn't reappoint her. in this particular case to try and fire someone that would spook -- that would spook banks. that would spook his wall street supporters. unfortunately, still not a populist argument because nobody cares. nobody knows what the term of the fed chair is. they think that jerome powell is the person who was trump's pick in the first place which he was until he didn't do what trump wanted him to do. >> it does affect the price of leasing a car or buying a car.

it does affect everyone. i wonder, donny, how you sort of post-mortem the conversations around the economy? because really, the only people that have to work at kecking to the workers are the people who have lost touch in such dramatic ways and i don't think that was -- i mean, i read all of the responses to aoc's post, as well, and it was about feeling seen. >> look, that's the one thing trump -- he had this magic that we can't figure out that he is far removed from the average joe as possible. yet somehow they think he's going to fight for them. i think a lot of it has to do with the way he talks. he talks like them. he's not polished and he's rough around the edges and says stupid things about arnold palmer and people go oh, he's like me and there's this weird dynamic that i as a marketer cannot figure out. i understand. i see it, but the guy who lives in the gilded universe in the

world relates to the guy on the street. we'll do so many post-mortems just a lot of the issues that they were focused on and it did not feel there's a reason that only 32% of the people identify as democrats now. it does not feel like they're in contact with they're going to get my food prices down. they're going to protect my borders and the meat and potatoes issues in the election. >> and the irony, michelle, we live in a country and cover the politics where the personalities are outside, and if you take the names and faces off of them, the policies under which kamala harris ran. what do you make of sort of the risk of overcorrecting? i mean, some of it is an inability to sustain a message around the economy and an inability to separate herself from joe biden's approval ratings which were historically low for anyone running a sort of

a vice president after one term -- i mean, what is your sense of sort of the parameters of this democratic autopsy? >> i think that they're going to have on spend a lot of time on this and figure out how to reach people in ways that go beyond traditional focus groups and polling. kamala harris was telling a story, and she said it to me personally once and it became part of her campaign. she talked about when she imagined working-class people as being someone -- and people will relate to this, if you've ever been to a party and you feel that the person who you're talking to is looking past you. they're looking over your shoulder trying to figure out who i want to talk to next and you're not that important to me and i want to get to this other person. it is a potent example of how people felt and i was surprised how we didn't see or hear more of that in the campaign. that is what a lot of voters feel, that the parties aren't

seeing them and aren't understanding their pain. we've been talking about the price of eggs and baking and the other thing weighing out there is the tsunami of elderly people that are marching past middle age into their senior years and how we are going to have to pay for that as individuals and as a country, and she tried to address that for instance with that $6,000 relief package. again, it just didn't resonate with people and that's one of the reasons why people are feeling -- it's not just the price of eggs. it's also how am i going to pay for my kids' education and take care of mom and dad? there is this silver tsunami that is going to hit the economy like an iceberg as boomers move past middle age and into their senior years, and that's another piece of the economy. one of the reasons that donald trump, you know, may have been successful is that in this fairytale he told about how he's going to help people improve their lives and he cast himself as a hero and then he had all kinds of villains. it was a bloated government and

it was immigrants that were stealing your jobs and a threat assessment that impact people's lives and kaz cause a real thre. it's not immigrants. it's car accidents, maybe cancer or gun, but it's not immigrants taking your jobs in the places where we're going to see mass deportation the unemployment rate is fairly low. if you're going to pull people out of the economy who will replace them? but the reason that that work side because it gave voters someone that they could plame. my life is not the way that i want it to be and it's their fault, and he was very good at returning to that message again and again. it's somebody else's fault and guess what? i'm the one that will make it better for you and even when he ram belled at his rallies he came back to that message over and over again. >> after the break i want to continue this. >> you're so respectful of our breaks. i love you. >> we're going to break. don't think about talking!

>> all right. you're doing my job for me. i love this. we will sneak in a break. ali velshi, thank you for making us smarter. >> when we come back, donny will start us off on how democrats can win again. a governor from the state donald trump won by 30 points lays out what could be the winning formula for his party going forward. plus heightened alarm worldwide after last week's antisemitic attacks. and the mayor reveals how the systematic way jewish fans were targeted. "deadline: white house" returns after a quick break. don't go anywhere. anywhere.

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for the veterans out there that suffer from ptsd, for the single moms working two jobs and raising their three kids, for the dads who have to miss bed time because they want to work that extra shift, and for the kids sleeping on the floor dreaming about a better america and a better future, this victory is for you. thank you, arizona. [ cheering ] that's what winning looked like tuesday night. democrats looking for under the couch cushion reasons to be optimistic this week and hopeful, don't have to look farther than that. that was in the battleground state of arizona because after days of uncertainty, nbc news now projects that congressman ruben gallego is on his way to the united states senate. he will be the first latino from the state to do so ever.

it will be gallego not republican kari lake who will take over for kyrsten sinema with one race yet to be called. gallego's victory is especially impressive when you consider that trump won arizona, same story in michigan, nevada and wisconsin, states that sent trump to the white house and a democrat to the united states senate. north carolina went red in the presidential contest, but again, chose a democrat to be that state's governor, and reproductive rights of the seven states that have proved abortion protections on ballot initiatives three ultimately went for trump for president. it's just something to keep in mind for those starting to peek ahead at the road forward for democrats. appropriately, one of those democrats road mapping the party's future right now is kentucky governor andy bashir. in a new york times essay he writes this, quote, while others

are talking about political strategy and messaging, the way forward is really about focus and action. the next several years are the democratic party's chance to show the american people that we will not just run on, but also govern by addressing those core issues that can and will improve the lives of our people. and perhaps the best part, these core issues and concerns are not partisan and addressing them helps democrats and republicans alike. that's a path forward for both the democratic party and for the country that we love. joining our conversation is democratic governor of kentucky, andy bashir. thank you for joining us today. >> good to see you, too. >> tell me about the piece that you wrote and i think people were looking at it as chicken soup for the soul and were hoping things were different. >> i supported the vice president, and i think she ran a really hard race and tried her very best. my piece is not about looking back on the election, but

forward. it's that idea that when people wake up in the morning they're not thinking about politics. they're thinking about their job and whether they make enough to support their family. they're thinking about the next doctor's appointment for themselves or their parents or their kids. they're thinking about the roads and the bridges they drive each day and what traffic's going to be like. they're thinking about the public school they drop their kids off at, and they're thinking about public safety in their communities. see, if you don't feel secure about those things you don't get to anything else. you don't get to whatever the issue of the day is in washington, d.c., and you don't get to any crazy thing that a politician said today or yesterday, and so my piece is about recommitting to waking up every single day and showing the american people that this is what we're focused on, that yes, we'll stand up for important values. we'll push back against discrimination. we'll try to expand opportunity all over the united states, but

people should know that every day we're working on creating better paying jobs, reducing the cost of health care and making sure our roads and bridges are safer and creating a world-class education for our kids and making everybody not just safer, but feel safer. those are just those core things that regardless of whether you're a democrat or a republican or an independent that you have to feel satisfied and secure before you can reach anything else. >> you've mentioned safety and feeling safe and security. just say a little bit more about where you think the democratic deficiencies are on those gut issues. >> well, i think we have to recognize that you can't just give folks statistics about where violent crime is. you have to listen. you have to listen about whether people feel safe because at a time when we're talking not just about physical health, but mental health, if you don't feel safe in your community it has a real impact on you, and then we've got to make sure that we

take steps to address those concerns. so when we think about the different path forward, i hope we are always listening first, that we are talking two people and not at them. that we meet folks where they are, and we make sure that we don't summarily ever dismiss how somebody feels even if we disagree with it. we hear them out and then we try to find that common growth fund and we apply common sense, and i wrote in my piece how donald trump just won kentucky by 30 points just one year after i won it by five points, and if you look at it, inflation has actually gotten better over that period of time, but i think in kentucky when i ran people saw that not only did i support policies that would create new jobs, but we were actually doing it. we opened the cleanest, greenest recycled paper mill in

henderson, kentucky. we are building the two largest battery plants on planet earth in glendale and while people may not believe what politicians say or what's in their platforms, my ads had me standing in front of those two massive facilities and people certainly believe what they can see and feel and touch, but it's about priority, and it's about focus. you know, if we're talking about what donald trump said today and the issue of the day in washington and jobs, we're only talking a third of our time about jobs, and so when people see how we spend the time that we have to communicate with them, they've just got to see that our major priorities are the things that they care about the most. >>. >> governor beshear, it's donny deutsch. congratulations in being so successful in such a deeply red state. if you decipher the campaign we talked about whether the media is too far left, but in reality

in many ways they were talking about the meat and potato issues and solving problems, but they weren't hitting in the gut. it wasn't connecting to people. is part of your success just that we talked about this in the last segment, this human ability that the message can be there, but you've got to hit people in the gut and the democrats were just not -- they weren't connecting a nice jewish word, people's gastolz. >> i think it's a couple of things and just ensuring that we're talking two people and not at people. we are listening to their concerns and not trying to quote, unquote, correct what they're saying. if people are worried about inflation even if it's coming down, we ought to meet them where they are and talk about different ways that we can save them money. i froze our gas tax in kentucky to give people a little bit of relief. i was able to cut property tax especially during the times when it was hard. yes, inflation was still there,

but they can see action. real action, and -- and see that i was trying my best to address their concerns. the other thing is recognizing the difference between policy and then showing a result. you know, the signing in the rose garden just isn't real to people because it hasn't actually created that job yet, and so making sure that we get out and -- and own these good policies when they create good jobs, that you're there not just at the announcement which is the hope, but when there is a ribbon cutting, people view it as this kind of performance, but all those jobs are there. you walk into the facility and it's built. people's lives are fully changed and yes, there are people who will always vote this way or that way, but i believe a large part of those left are just voting on who they believe in their gut will provide that

better life form and give them that chance to get ahead a little bit more. so i'm not looking backward, i'm looking farther, we have a chance to do that and we got a chance to be the party that does it, and like i said the best part about this is it's good for everybody. if we espouse the values that the democratic party and have the focus on the core issues that lift everybody up, we won't just appeal to undecided voters. we'll hopefully create the grace and the space to talk to some who might have voted a different way in the past, but see a better life ahead. >> governor andy beshear, thank you so much for taking some time to talk to us about what you wrote. we need to fit in a very short break, but we'll continue to turn to you. we'll be right back. ♪ that just will never come out ♪ ♪ pour downy in the rinse, jade ♪ ♪ every now and then i rinse it out! ♪ fights odor in just one wash.

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as michelle mentioned earlier in the hour congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez asked the split ticket voters among her social media following why they voted for her and donald trump. as our friend michelle said in her piece on msnbc.com it wasn't the most sophisticated method of surveying voters, but the responses were swift and candid. things like this, i feel like you are both outsiders compared to the rest of d.c. and less establishment. quote, i wanted change so i went with trump and blue for the rest of the ballot to put some brakes on him. both of you push boundaries and force growth. quote, it's real simple. trump and you care for the

working class. quote, i feel like trump and you are both real. you are focused on the real issues people care about, similar to trump populism in some ways. quote, you signaled change. trump signified change. i've said lately trump sounds more like you. michelle and donny, wow, michelle. of all the compliments doesn't deserve that he sounds like aoc feels like maybe near the top. >> that must have created some sort of vertigo, nicole, to see that, but yet it's instructive. you asked what the democrats need to do now i'm tempted to quote tirian lanister on "game of thrones" what unites people? is it army? is it flags? no. it's a well-told story. democrats have to learn how to tell a powerful story that actually reaches people and when i listen to governor beshear talk about what people feel in their gut in doing that, they

also have to be honest about the other headwinds that they faced. we've been talking about the economy, but in doing any kind of after-action forensics, they also have to be willing to try to figure out how and to what extent deep seeded biasses may have played into this. you know, people have a certain sense of what authority looks like in this country. all you have to do is look at the ceo class to understand that, and so, to what degree were people just uncomfortable sending a person of color or a woman or a person who is both those things, you know, into higher office and in order to tell that better story they have to understand the headwinds in order to do that. >> donny? >> there's a very twisted irony to aoc talking about trump and why they voted for both people, and i'm going to talk about now the voters, the swing voters who go back and forth between george w. bush and barack obama and donald trump and joe biden. some of the policies of aoc are

the problem. it's not going to be popular on this network when you say things like stop funding israel or keeping amazon from moving into long island city and some very extreme left policies you lose the party. now i know there are people on this network -- i'm not going after aoc, part of her as the brand of the party is part of the problem of the party. the party needs to be centrist, and yes, you want to welcome everybody, but aoc and i would listen -- these are suburban voters, not rich voters, just suburban voters, they would use aoc as a reason. democrats are not going to win if she is the voice of the party and she is the image of the party we've got problems and i'm just telling it like it is. >> i think that the experiment she undertook was trying to understand how someone -- say you're right, who feels the way -- she must see herself similarly, right? as being a vanguard on the left.

>> it's just authenticity. >> how can you vote for me and trump? >> right. >> i think the aha of her experiment is that it has nothing to do with policy. isn't that the answer? i mean -- >> yeah. >> how do you vote for aoc and trump even -- which i'm not sure i do. >> the people in her district. >> right. >> okay. yes, the people in her district voted for her authenticity. her authenticity is not necessarily good for the entire range of the project. so she is in a very, very, very narrow base, a very extreme side of the base that is problematic for the entire party. i don't have the answer. i'm just trying to do a post-mortem on a party that needs to move to the middle and needs to be symbolized by certain issues that are middle of the road issues. throw me off this network. that's just where we've got to go. >> i've got no interest in throwing anybody off that is having these conversations because i think you feel some

discomfort criticizing aoc. i think the beauty in what aoc did was to be the experiment, right? michelle, what i saw in her responses was let me understand you and god bless anyone responding with curiosity. i mean, that's -- that's -- that's the gift that keeps on giving because i don't have any answers, just questions, and i think what donny's articulating is this experience of understanding people that should have on paper been attracted to everything that vice president kamala harris did and the way she ran her campaign, but that weren't and for those people aoc isn't the answer, but i understand the gift of what she did was to shine a light on this piece that you're getting it. this piece in the gut which is very hard to reveal to a pollster, which is very hard for anyone to reveal until they're in the privacy of the voting booth, and i wonder if you can say more about the importance of understanding the answers to the questions you asked about gender and race. >> it's -- it's key, and it's

something that we don't -- it's hard to talk about because pollsters don't ask that question, you know? how comfortable are you with the female president? there are few pollsters that answered the question in that way and one of the things that's clear when you look at election results and whether it's the aoc experiment and what happened with the reproductive rights initiatives across the country. people voted to preserve reproductive rights and voted for donald trump and voted for republican candidates who were trying to strip them of those rights. this was an a la carte election where people were sending very mixed messages and it is hard to discern very quick answers and a quick solution to what to do forward. this will take some time to actually really understand what happened. the thing that was refreshing about what aoc did is that she decided to get out of the way and let voters have a voice. you know, where we've spent a lot of time in the last week trying to understand what happened and often talking

amongst ourselves and not giving a platform for voters. we haven't heard enough of them, and i think that's a voice that we all need to figure out how to create pathways so that we can listen to people and that we can share those stories more with people so that we understand what's really going on in this election and that will help fight the way forward. >> you do that by elevating her. i think it's fascinating. michelle, thank you so much for joining us today. far from being kicked off the network, we'll let donny stick around for the rest of the hour. we'll take a break. we'll be right back.

some breaking news to tell you about. donald trump has made his pick to head the cia. he has chosen the former director of national intelligence john ratcliffe to lead the agency bypassing some more controversial picks like kash patel who had been reported to have been under consideration for the cia or the fbi. we're going to keep our eyes on that story as the trump cabinet continues to come into focus. donny, kash patel may end up with a very high ranking. >> so far he's got -- >> he's got a normal sort of, i guess on the menu is institutional instincts. >> mike huckabee and susie wiles and marco rubio. so far so good. >> all right. we are going to switch to our other story in focus for us. in amsterdam this week continued

unrest emblematic of a global rise of antisemitism and tensions around the war in gaza. the latest, this tram was set on fire in the city center by dozens of people overnight, people who threw fireworks. some of them shouting "cancer jews." please say it is not clear if it is related to what happened last week in amsterdam involving the vandalism of the palestinian flag and racist rhetoric about the war in gaza. in a series of hit and run assaults against the visiting israeli soccer fans beaten, injured and sent to the hospital followed by online threats according to the mayor of amsterdam of a, quote, jew hunt condemned by authorities in israel and the netherlands as targeting antisemitic attacks and by president joe biden as despicable. today, five new arrests on assault charges in connection with the attack on the israeli soccer fans and authorities in

amsterdam say they expect them to be more. we're back with donny. i've seen some of your appropriate rage at what's happening, and i believe there are more soccer games this week in europe, and i wonder what your thoughts are about how you keep people safe and how you stop creating per mission structures. >> you said permission structure and we talk about amsterdam and i'm bringing it here. over the weekend in michigan at an anne frank play, there were nazi flags out there, just waving nazi flags. jew hatred and antisemitism is vice hatred. you are getting it from both sides, from the far left and the far right, as long as we allow students to continue to march on this campus and say death to israel which is from the river to the sea is what it's basically saying or we love hamas, or sinwar was a martyr. we are allowing the same behavior, you've been so great

in letting me talk on the show about how somehow antisemitism, there's a but after ward. it's tolerated somehow. you would not allow the ku klux klan to march, why do we allow nazis to march? why do we allow kids on campus -- jewish kids are terrified, still today. i'm on these social media sites that on a daily basis are showing ransacked because it's owned by israelis. this is rampant now, and it's part of the problem is the echo chambers within the jewish community and the media for some reason is not covering it from the same veracity and the same passion they would cover hatred of any other group whether it was gays or people of color. jews and i don't know if it's the whole oppressed versus oppressor theory or jews, and i don't understand, but for some reason it is not met with the same complete public outrage starting with the media down

across the board as hate as other groups and it's devastating. >> what should the media do differently? >> the media should cover it. "the new york times" should not run a headline, violence over soccer game breaks out. no, it's over jew hatred. cnn should not run a chiron around antisemiic. walk right into it. the media has a very left feeling about it and they're afraid of alienating some people. there are no buts. it's hatred it's like any other hatred. hatred to jews is like hatred to gays and hatred to latinos and that's it. let's get it on an even playing field and the fact that google came out and said that from the river to the sea is not deemed as hate speech because it's nuanced. that's hate speech. period. and i don't -- you know, you've been so great about talking about this, and i just know that my world, and i -- a lot of my

friends -- most of my friends are jewish are terrified. >> hurting. >> hurting. terrified. >> hurting for their kids. >> hurting, sad, terrified for their kids and by the way, donald trump made a lot of inroads with jews for that reason. >> to be continued, donny deutsch. thank you for spending the whole hour with us. you're welcome to come back tomorrow. we'd never throw you off the network. >> we're all revved up. >> everybody is watching, but we have to let some of these stories sort of unfold and we rely on you to cover them. >> yeah. on the trump stuff, let's lay it play out. that's all we can do. >> a quick break for us. we'll be right back. las vegas grand prix chose t-mobile to fuel advanced coverage for over 300,000 race fans and event staff. t-mobile powers tractor supply's stores nationwide with 5g business internet. and t-mobile's network helps aaa get their members back on the road. this is how business goes further

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the u.s. attorney for massachusetts announced that former massachusetts air national guard member jack tichera was sentenced to 15 years for stealing classified information from the pentagon and sharing it online. in march, he pleaded guilty to six counts of willful retention and transmissi of national defense information under the espionage act. end of the break for us. we'll be right back. right bac. ♪♪

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