policies and this kind of stuff. there's going to be some controversy on at that front. some controversy for his support of controversial figures who were in trouble in the military. it's one thing to do that from your pirch in a media role and another as defense secretary. his very antiinterventionist stance compared to many soft incoming folks we expect on trump's national security or intelligence or you know, foreign policy leadership teams is going to create a conflict most likely right out of the gate. the confirmation process could be quite interesting. i think president elect trump has clearly thought this through. this is the move he wants to make for the conversation and debate as much as for the --

too early" for us on this wednesday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. >> i confess i did not know who pete hegseth was until 20 minutes ago. he does not seem to have much of a background in dod policy to the extent he has worked on any of that stuff is on veterans policy. the lack of experience is concerning. now i have not heard what his plans are. so we will see what his plans are. but it was surprising and it is concerning just given that lack of experience. the pentagon, biggest bureaucracy in the world. it's a hard thing to run. so i think it's going to be a challenge. >> that was the ranking member of the armed services committee,

democratic congressman adam smith of washington state reacting to donald trump's pick for defense secretary. even some republicans on capitol hill were caught off-guard by the selection of the fox news host pete hegseth admitting they don't know much about him at all. we will play for you their reactions and go through trump's other cabinet picks. also ahead, we will preview the white house meeting later this morning between president biden and president-elect trump. part of biden's commitment to a peaceful transfer of power. meanwhile, the incoming administration appears to be taking the first steps to follow through on trump's promised mass deportation plan. nbc julia ansly will join us with more reporting on that. welcome to "morning joe." it is wednesday, november 13th. along with joe, willie, and me, we have the host of "way too early" white house bureau chief at politico, jonathan lemire. managing editor it with us sam

stein. congressional reporting for "the washington jaie alemany. we start with donald trump's pick for secretary of defense. he has chosen fox news host pete hegseth as the next leader of the pentagon. hegseth is a military veteran who served with the army national guard. in a statement, trump described hegseth as, quote, tough, smart, and a true believer in america first. during an interview on a podcast just last week, hegseth criticized what he called woke policies in the military and said that women should not be allowed to serve in combat. >> there is a chance to course correct it, but it would take a new trump administration going after it really hard. >> how would they correct it? >> first of all, you got to fire, you know, you know to fire the chairman of joint chiefs and you, obviously, bring in a

secretary of defense or any general that was involved, general, admiral involved in the d.e.i. [ bleep ] woke has to go to go. you're in if for the fighting and only litmus test we are caring about. you're not training young officers to be baptized in this type of thinking. whatever the standards -- whatever the combat standards were, i don't know, 1995, let's make those the standards. i think huge one is women in combat and quotas. i think the way they pushed that under obama in a way that had nothing, zero! zero to do with efficacy and zero to do with lethality and capability. >> you don't like women in combat? >> no. >> why not? >> i love service members who contribute amazingly. because everything about men and women serving together makes the situation more complicated. and complication in combat means

casualties are worse. >> so, willie, obviously, a lot of concern among democrats, along some republicans. but this, obviously, is going to be, i think i saw jake sherman say yesterday this might be the biggest challenge of any pick so far to get through, only because, obviously, as adam smith said before, you know, the pentagon is a massive bureaucracy. i served four terms on the armed services committee and i can tell you that even the most experienced general, admiral, ceo that went into the pentagon, got spun around in circles. it's a lot easier to say what you're gting oing to do on a po than it is when you're actually over at the pentagon. people that think that generals and admirals that have given

their entire life to this country are just going to roll over is a serious misreading of the pentagon. but we will see what happens. i mean, people -- we will see what he says when he is in front of the senate. we will see what we hear in the coming days and weeks. as adam smith said, judge him by what he says then. >> he heard some republicans not critical of the pick openly, but wondering about the pick, saying -- republicans now saying i don't know who he is. i think it's very telling they are not coming out publicly and criticizing it. that is the power of trump. these men and women in the senate and house don't want to cross him and believe he has swept in with a mandate and no matter what he does, we will see how they vote when it comes down to confirmation time but at least publicly we are not hearing republicans critical of this choice which mildly surprised a lot of people not just in washington but across

the country. let's bring in nbc news national security editor david roe. good morning. what reaction are you hearing to at least this nomination to be secretary of defense? >> it is a surprise and i think clips like the one you played come on you it will raise major issues. there are women in combat and women who engage in ground combat have to take physical tests. can they pick up and carry another soldier who is wounded is one of them. very large number of women are combat pilots and very experienced ones. i think he should have his hearings and talk through these ideas but i guess they are more political talking points versus the concrete realities of these policies. so it is a surprise. there has been good, i think, picks centrist like marco rubio that have been, i think, seen in a positive light by national security experts. but this one is definitely a

surprise. >> this pick comes and we should note hours after an important reporting from "the wall street journal" that says the trump transition team is considering a draft executive order to establish a warrior board, their words, to a retired senior military personnel with the power to review three and four star officers and recommend that they be deemed unfit for leadership, mostly over their support for dei and woke policies per this reporting. this will allow trump, who can fire whoever he wants as commander in chief but allows the advisory board to remake basically senior levels of the pentagon. jackie, pete hegseth, the appointment would be a part of that if he does, indeed, lead the d.o.d. he is someone, we rolled through some of his comments about women in combat. he spoke at cpac. he is a little partisan figure in his fox news part so let's talk about the possibility that this might be the pick that republicans do have some

questions about. republicans is in the national likely have a rubber stamp for most of trump's nominations but this one might be different. how do you see it play out? >> yeah, historically, we have seen congress give a lot of deference to presidents when it comes to confirming their cabinet. there have been some blowout and dramatic fights, though. i think pete hegseth could be that rare fight for senate republicans, but as we have talked about, the past few months, the lack of centers in senate is perhaps troubling for any sort of pushback like hegseth who as you noted has 20 years of service in the military, two bronze stars, but has zero experience when it comes to actually and a half gat -- navigating a bureaucracy or service department and overseeing the world's most powerful and largest military. i think that this is going to be the first test of who ultimately

stands up to trump. you know, we were just talking about how trump has gotten involved in all of these battles that traditionally president-elects have not gotten involved in, such as picking the senate mjt leader and weighing in and essentially ushering and facilitating this media campaign and make america great campaign to try to tap someone like rick scott who then would be expected to supplement recess appointments which would allow trump to take this expansive approach to executive authority and presidential power and allow him to usurp the senate what they make a recess appointee and serve in the job for a year without formal confirmation where it only takes a simple majority to push someone through like pete hegseth. you have people like susan collins and lisa murkowski, people are left who will put up a fight and people are not

isolationist and i don't know if you can call them interventionals and pete hegseth is one of the leading forces who allowed trump to pardon war criminals. >> david, let's expand this out, this will be the last question because we have so many picks to get to. very busy day yesterday in mar-a-lago. for people out there saying well,, you know, donald trump will be able to get whoever he wants through the senate and then this he can go and republicans call the witch hunt and go around and pick generals that they want to fire and just get rid of them, again, i'm curious your thought. i think it's -- i think it's a dangerous misreading of the pentagon because if you start going through and firing

generals for political reasons, there is a general feeling and attack on one is an attack on all. i suspect that would cause a great deal of problems. when i started saying they are going to have a board to go out and go through and fire generals and admirals they didn't like, i, again, thought it's just not that easy. it's just -- the pentagon and the united states military is set apart and they are not going to bend to the will of anyone who they believe is issuing unconstitutional orders. >> that's true. and that is because lives are at stake here. you want the best possible commander leading american forces when they go in to combat and the broader question, we have talked about this before and we will talk about it again. as a national security editor,

we are going to look at all of these national security agencies and the question is will donald trump try to politicize them? will he be picking and choosing, you know, leaders, generals with this committee appears to do for people who support him politically? again, the pentagon is the starkest example of that. again, you want the best possible military leader, not the most loyal one, leading our, you know, -- all of our military members in command and you'll seal the same thing at the cia. you need the best, you know, spying but also analysis of russia and china, possibly the biggest threats we face. at the justice department and the fbi, you want the best possible law enforcements encountering threats in the united states, so that is the broad dynamic. >> let's talk about the cia. trump has picked john ratcliffe

as his pick for the cia director. the first attempt to install him in 2019 failed after he removed himself from consideration following reports he appeared to misrepresent his career as a federal prosecutor in texas. donald trump also selected south dakota governor kristi noe m. as homeland security. she has no experience with homeland security issues but has supported trump's hard line immigration policy. she also defended fellow republican governors in their efforts to crack down on migrants in their state. sam, let's go back to the cia and then we can get to governor noem in a second. a former republican congressman, what is the sense on the hill of what kind of cia director john ratcliffe would be? >> he is one of these picks that by virtue of having been there in the first term will probably

sail through confirmation. people are familiar with him. there is no immediately red flags like there were the first time around because of misrepresentation that you talked about. same with noem, to a degree. the real one, obviously, is we were talking about pete hegseth and people are dumb founded by it. if we are being frank about it the reason he is picked he is on fox and "friends", right? this is true of a number of these picks. mike waltz happened to be the congressman who appeared on fox more than any other sitting republican member of congress in the past two years. these people grab trump's attention because of television appearances. he is drawn to the idea they can present on a medium that he loves. contemporaneous reporting from last night suggest the hegseth decision was done in a matter of 24 hours, that there is internal confusion about it. similarly with noe m. a little

bit. people are wondering what kind of credentials she has to run dhs and the fema response and if she can help with that. some confusion by i think the main point this is trump, right? people have become sort of internalize the idea he is going to choose people not necessarily based on credentials but based on their ability to handle television interviews and on their personal loyalty to them. i think with hegseth, sorry to keep going back here but i think the most controversial one. they have been pretty much clear about their desire to use the military domestically, right? this was an issue in the first term where they wanted to put down some of the protests happening in lafayette scare. thee used the military. it was a problem for the military leaders at the time. they didn't realize they were being used in that way. military officials, obviously, spoke out against trump after the fact. i think he looks at this and says i don't want to deal with that again so find the

biggest -- he can find to serve as secretary of defense and see if he can jam it through the senate and that seems to be what is happening here. >> we will see. again, the senate testimony will be fascinating. >> really. >> unless there is a recess appointment. i do think with some of the issues, you will have some republicans that will have some concerns but, again, we will see. again, saying something on a tv show, we have done that once or twice! and on a podcast is far different than when you're off a tv show or you're off a podcast and we will wait and see what his position and his approach is to these extraordinarily important issues. i will only say this again. the united states military is stronger today than it has been relative to the rest of the world since 1945. when tommy tuberville starts trashing our men and women in

uniform, i do wonder what he is trying to prove and where he is going with it. i certainly hope that if, in fact, this is the incoming secretary of defense, he, too, understands the united states military is stronger today than any time since world war ii. we are an extraordinarily powerful, battle-hardened country, with a military that fought in iraq and fought in afghanistan. we have seen what has happened in ukraine over the past two years or so. we have learned a hell of a lot from it. russia's military has been severely weakened without the loss of one american soul. our military, you talk to anybody across the world that has seen the united states military go up and down, they will tell you just how strong we are. i certainly hope that the incoming secretary of defense

shares that belief. nbc news national security editor david roe, i wanted to ask you about john ratcliffe. he has been in the intel community before. what are your thoughts about him going to the cia? >> again, it helps that he served as -- in the past. i want to be fair and i want positive things. hutchison's testimony in the january 6th hearing said behind the scenes in the final days of the trump administration, he did not participate in and question trump's efforts to return -- sorry, to reverse the outcome of the election. so that was something that, you know, should be noted here. i do think there will be less opposition to him. it's just, again, there will be this, i think, pressure and i'll just keep saying it, sort of politicize the findings of the cia to point out that certain foreign leaders that the president likes, you know, the intelligence now gentler on them than people that the president

doesn't like and the dangers of, again, having, you know, politics drive analysis and foreign policy decisions completely politics or personal loyalty, personal politics versus what is best for the country. >> all right. nbc news david roe, thank you very much. greatly appreciate it. i will say there some relief in washington, d.c. with trump's select of marco rubio as secretary of state and also john ratcliffe, and also congressman waltz. >> yes. >> as even democrats on the hill say, it could have been a lot worse. they know marco rubio. they know john ratcliffe. they know congressman waltz, a green beret. so there is a sense of relief in those selections. not so, again, with the dod selection but, again, we will see how that shakes out over the next three or four weeks.

>> let's take a look at other stories making headlines morning. the air national guard member responsible for a massive leak of classified information was sentenced to 15 years in prison. 22-year-old jack teixeira worked as an i.t. specialist at a massachusetts base when he smuggled out images of hundreds of classified documents and posted them on a chat platform with popular with video games. the materiel included government secrets about the war in ukraine and espionage efforts by china against the united states. phoenix police have released dramatic body cam footage of a officer rescuing a man who was trapped inside a car that ended up submerged in a pool. witnesses called 911 to report a vehicle that drove off a road after 2:00 a.m. on halloween. when police arrived, they jumped into the pool, smashed the car's sunroof, and pulled the person to safety. the man was taken to a nearby

hospital to get checked out. police haven't said what caused the crash so far but they are looking into it. >> wow. >> that is incredible. also this. saks fifth avenue is calling off its holiday light show at its flagship store in new york's mid-town manhattan. >> why? >> the spectacle has ground huge crowds of tourists for nearly two decades. kind of iconic. according to "the new york times" the change appears to be a move to cut costs. >> what are willie and i supposed to do in the winter solstice now? for 17 years we have been going down there and handing out candy bars and orphans to others who are just hungry. willie, i don't know what we are going to do now. this sort of an end of an era personally for us. i have another question for you, willie. you watch the television.

we talked about that yesterday. so, you know, they are selling these things on tv and on the internet, you know, where your car gets submerged and they made so you can get a little hammer and hit it, right? have you seen that dude where you turn it around and go boop and the whole car shatters? >> if you hit the corner in the right spot the whole thing shatters. >> do you got one of those in your car? do i need to think about that? mika is not a good driver but i don't think she is -- >> i'm a perfectly good driver. >> i don't think she will put a car in the pool. >> how did that car get in the pool? i have further questions, your honor, about what led up to that heroic act by the officers. but it's tough to get your car in a pool. let's put it that way. >> the whole car! >> something has to really go wrong! >> unless it's in, like, a rock, mtv video. i saw that happen in 1979!

i'm not sure. >> how did that get in there? >> you got to work hard to do that. we are glad no one was injured here and that we were able to give free publicity who made that thing you press a button and, boom, the whole car shatters. up ahead, more on the latest picks by donald trump and including the new role elon musk will have in that term. he has a blue ribbon commission he will be looking like that and that. maybe he is learning to cut government waste. >> we are lerpg about a potential trump administration plan to expand immigrant detention centers near u.s. major cities. nbc julia ansley will join us with that report. >> look what q did. he dialed up 1979.

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two sources familiar with the plan told nbc news. the centers would be used to hold immigrants before they are deported as part of trump's promise of mass deportation plan. the goal is to purportedly double number of isis 31,000 detection beds and the plan would include the restarting of the policy of detaining parents with their children, known as family detention, a policy that the biden administration stopped in 2021. >> let's bring in right now one of the reporters of that is nbc news homeland security krornt julia ainsley. >> as mika said this is to hold people who have been arrested in the interior of the country. we are getting a window now into the details as they are being flushed out about how the trump administration is going to carry out this mass deportation effort and what trump has said will be the largest in american history.

what they are looking at now is new locations to expand capacity and want to get over 80,000 beds and hold that many immigrants after they are arrested before they are deported. they are talking to the private prison companies like geo group, places that -- companies have had a big source in their stock market prices because of this noted expansion. and these are companies that can get facilities running they quickly. they are looking at major metropolitan areas. one of my sources said that they are looking at areas around the metropolitan areas of miami, los angeles, chicago, and 95 corridor between philadelphia and new york and d.c. these are areas where they need to expand detention because this isn't just for migrants who recently crossed the border but to hold people who have just been arrested. that also means holding families. this is something we expected the trump administration to bring back. now we understand they are making plans for it. these are detention centers that are much more expensive to

operate because of court orders, that dictate how you treat children in detention, rightfully so. those are more expensive and something the biden administration said this isn't necessary and it isn't in keeping with our moral philosophy about immigration so they ended it. we understand the trump administration plans on bringing back family detention as they grow to a large extent. >> julia, to this issue, this plan that so many democrats upset and depressed about the election this is a galvanizing effort to get started. tell us more what you've learned here in terms of those who are going to be targeted. i know you said not just recent migrants. does that include people who have been here for years? secondly, who is actually carrying out these raids? what agency? which department? which staffers? which force are going to be actually pulling these people potentially from their homes? >> it would be led by ice but trump said he would try to use the military as well if he can

get to that legally and also to call on local police departments. even though a lot of them. say their resources are stretched thin. yes, these are people oftentimes who have been living in the country a long time. they said they will prioritize criminals but as they are trying to expand family detention no one is off the table here. i spoke to chad wolf who stayed ingrained with this group with the incoming trump administration the past four years, and he said, there should be no exemptions because if you exempt one group, more of those will come. the fact they are looking at major metropolitan areas, if you think about building a new place to hold migrants outside of denver, l.a., chicago they could be garnering protests for that and i understand they are looking at existing structures to see how many beds they might have available and, say, a county jail or existing i.c.e. detention centers but they could build up temporary soft-sided facilities to try to increase the capacity very quickly and that could look like tents and

draws a tacle and could draw a protests. i think they are is not shying away from the visuals. in fact, i think that is what they want. they want to show a really big impact on day one and something stephen miller has said they have been given a mandate to do. he wants to see 1 million grants arrested and deported each year. >> nbc news homeland security security correspondent julia ainsley, thank you very much. jack smith, the special counsel pursuing two investigations in to president-elect trump, is set to step down before the new administration takes power. "the new york times" reports smith plans to finish his work and resign alongside his team. smith also plans to follow a report that summarizes his work and decisions for release to the public. since his investigations will no longer go to court. smith is investigating trump's

efforts to overturn the 2020 election and mishandling documents. a sitting president cannot be prosecuted for a crime. >> there are several reasons jack smith took this action. one, the practical impact of it. you also have that longstanding justice department ruling and guidance that a sitting president can't be indicted. you also, of course, have the supreme court immunity investigation over the incoming president. >> it's fitting the news is breaking on the day that trump is heading to d.c. to meet with joe biden in the white house and getting the audience at the white house that he never gave to biden during the last transition of power. this goes to show you the dual planes on which these two men are operating. donald trump prompted an insurrection for which he was investigated and, you know,

obviously, smith was never going to be able to continue his case against trump once trump assumed office for all of the reasons we outlined. trump said he was going to fire him within two seconds. the question was always what would he do with the coconspirators. i assume they are going to have to drop those cases, too, if smith is resigning. obviously, you know, if you believe he had a virtuous case and should have seen it to the end, this is a depressing moment because trump will have evaded the accountability that he originally deserved for january 6th and that is what happens when you win an election. you get to, you know, skirt that responsibility. i think that is what we are seeing here. >> on top of the appointments we have been talking about this morning, john thune of south dakota and john cornyn of texas and rick scott of florida all seeking the position and race for the senate mjt leader.

today's vote will be by secret. the republican will be the new leader when the republicans take chrome of the senate in january. how is the hill handicapping this race this morning, jackie? >> an unorthodoxed campaign to get rick scott to be nominated the next majority leader in 18 years. at the end of the day today, it's going to be a secret ballot vote so the results are really unexpected and this could perhaps be the first opportunity for senate republicans to buck president-elect trump and the person that he has tapped, rick scott, to be the next majority leader. mike lee, senator from utah, he held a round table discussion last night for members to be able to hear the pitches from

the different candidates, john thune, john cornyn, the john's, as we call them and rick scott. they all have similar reforms which is essentially giving more process to rank and file members and a lot of the members have been critical the way mcconnell has conducted business along with democratic majority leaders and senator lee has called them, the firm, and basically says he is backing rick scott because scott is the most foreminded candidate to try to buck the power of the firm to allow members to call more amendments and allow them to be more deliberative about spending bills and enact the trump agenda. i think that is the key point here. i think the decision that lawmakers have today is whether or not they want someone like rick scott who has made it very clear that he is going to be a right-handed man and a tool of donald trump in terms of expanding presidential power and

potentially, you know, bypassing the congress completely to get certain things done. or are they going to go with more moderate candidates like cornyn or thune who have a laundry list, as we have seen this maga campaign era of discrepancies with trump when it comes to certain policies. >> that meeting starts at 9:30 in w. gop conference gets together and will pick its new leader. we will see. the "the washington post" jackie alemany, thanks so much. jonathan lemire, that meeting, donald trump and president biden at the white house, courtesy not extended by donald trump to joe biden four years ago as he was contesting the election. what do we expect to see today? >> it's sort of an unthinkable scene in some ways. we remember the last time donald trump what in the white house when he snuck out and opted not to attend president biden's inauguration and he left that

morning on marine one. at that moment when it seemed like his political career was over hard to imagine he would come back to the whites and now he is doing so as president-elect. we are expecting a photo op that is customary between the two men in the oval office and probably say a few words before the cameras and about it and see if they respond to shouted questions. certainly a victory lap for donald trump coming in here. we recall when he came in 2016 he was invited by then president obama and trump was told he was numb and he couldn't believe he had won and achieved the oval office. i don't think we should expect this time around and north korea will probably be the biggest international challenge he faced then. i don't know if president biden will try to impart knowledge to trump we don't know if he will listen. reviving the tradition to invite his successor to the oval office, as painful as it must

be, because we know that joe biden, since the beof his 2020 campaign and throughout his four years in office, has labeled donald trump an existential threat to the nation's democracy and now he has to welcome trump in to that oval office as his successor. >> it's always -- >> wow. >> it's always a fascinating scene. you go back through history. we can go eight years and barack obama, very polite, as donald trump said, very polite and very open to donald trump when he came. and donald trump was actually very complimentary of how welcoming and how open he was when the rest of the official washington was, obviously, not happy he was there. they went in and there was that advice given which was that you need to worry about north korea, that is going to be your top challenge. a lot of people would say donald

trump didn't take that advice. he started writing love letters to kim jong-un. excuse me. my mike is off? i'm practicing the senate thing. so, any way. don't rush me, alex. i got some stories to tell. >> oh, no. >> here is story number one. it happens all the time. when eisenhower came in and harry truman was trying to talk him through what it was going to be like to be president of the united states, truman wrote letter, he was shocked. ike wasn't paying attention and couldn't care less with what harry truman had to say and they, of course, had a very chilly relationship. then when ike left eight years later, john kennedy came in and he noticed that john kennedy, after he told him if you press a button that the helicopter, marine one will come to -- come pick you up right back here. and then he started trying to

take him around the world telling him where all of the hot spots were going to be. he noticed kennedy kept staring down at the button. and he basically said, son, you got a lot more to worry about than that button rightly there. kind of like listen to me. jfk thought he is an old man. again, these meetings are usually fraught with some tension. obviously, ronald reagan and jimmy carter was, especially driving up to the swearing-in ceremony. historians love looking at these meetings and seeing exactly what dynamics play out so this should be really fascinating. >> the dynamic this time around should be completely new. coming up one of our next guests is comparing this year's election loss to the one democrats experienced back in 2004. "new york" magazine's ed kilgore will break down the lessons we learned then and how it compares to now. politico jonathan martin

says the scale of kamala harris's defeat may double as a silver lining for democrats. he'll join us to explain. "morning joe" is coming right back. back president biden will host president-elect trump for a sit-down meeting at the white house and it makes sense with the combined year of age 80. i think standing up is out of the question! f the question i wish i had someone like evan when i started. somebody just got their first debit card! ice cream on you? ooo, tacos! i got you. wait hold on, don't you owe me money? what?! your money is a part of your community, so your bank should be too. like, chase! still have symptoms from moderate to severe

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so we got rubio, head of the

secretary of defense. kristi noem as homeland security. and might get this guy for secretary of defense. >> i want to buy a u. >> treat yourself a rounds of sausage! >> that is not it! >> wait. treat yourself a round of sausage wasn't the answer? >> that is always my answer! always my answer, willie to every one, right? >> sam? >> a round of sausage. sausage on me! >> steaks, willie! >> yeah, okay. >> go to a bar. hey, the sauerkraut is on me, everybody! >> you can see mike barnicle has joined the conversation. >> a round of sausage! >> poor guy. when he realized what it really was! >> i'm hungry now! >> come on.

all right. given what you just said, mike, let's straighten up and get to some of this morning's must read opinion pages. conservative columnist has a piece for the los angeles times titled victorious republicans are once again falling for the mandate trap. jonah writes in part whatever trump believes his mandate is, at least some of the people who voted for him, will have different ideas. save for dealing with inflation and righting the economy. there is very little that he can do that won't result in some spem saying, this isn't what i voted for. once again, a victorious party is sticking its head in the mandate trap. in the 21st century, yuval levin writes that presidents win elections because their opponents were unpopular and then imagining the public has endorsed their party activist agenda they use the power of their office to make themselves unpopular. this is why the incumbent party lost for the third time in a row

in 2024, a feat not seen since the 19th century. hence, the irony of the mandate trap. in theory, trump could solidify and build on his winning coalition but that would require disappointing the people insisting he has a mandate to do whatever he wants, which is why it's unlikely to happen. >> mike barnicle, this is a victory as we have said for donald trump that belongs to him. it doesn't have to do with ideology so much if you look at the fact that in the swing states that donald trump won, democrats won the senate in nevada, democrats won the senate in arizona which, of course, they had a real progressive win there, ruben gallego. they wanted the senate in wisconsin and michigan. it looks like they have lost the senate in pennsylvania, but the

state and other people are not calling the race yet because the republican is 30,000 ahead of the democrat and by last count, i saw the state said there was still 100,000 provisional ballots and absentee ballots and overseas ballot. but that will be close and we suspect that mccormick will win the next several days. to north carolina, you have a democrat who won by double digits in north carolina. so republicans saying we won this massive mandate and basically 50/49 divided country. will make the same mistake that bill clinton made in '92 when he overreached and help elect people like me in '94 and republicans got in control for the first time in 40 years. joe biden won a very close race in 2020 and people started saying you need to be like fdr.

well, he didn't have the fdr mandate and many people thought he overreached as well. and so there is always, as jonah says, this back and forth and back and forth. and we will see whether donald trump will try to build on those successes or overreach like just about every other president has done this century. >> it's interesting. all of the races you mentioned were statewide, various senators and governors and things like that, but the top of the house vote for the president of the united states separates that office from everything else. i do think, joe, what happens is that people vote for the presidency either up and down. you either vote for him or against him or for her or against her. in this case. a lot of people turned their backs to the democratic party because of what they were hearing from democrats. that is another thing i would submit and they dent idn't go a what they were hearinthings tha

impacted the election, inflation still remains and was the critical factor. because what the biden administration was doing nearly every day, god bless them, coming on television and telling voters that we had the strongest economy in the world that is actually the truth. we have the strongest economy in the world. but it's not the economy. the average economy that people endure each and every day in this country. people pulling into gas stations in brand new ford f-150 trucks or expensive or old cars and getting half a tank of gas because they were running out of money looking at the numbers strolling on the gas meter. things like that. grocery prices. that is what did it. not ideology. money. >> gas and groceries, mike barnicle has been saying that a long time. another editorial from the japanese news which is the english language version of a japanese newspaper. u.s. protectionism trump's

tariff measures a matter of concern. quote. so, sam stein, it remains a question of whether donald trump will deliver on these grand promises of tariffs, massive tariffs that he talked about during the campaign and a relationship with mexico if tariffs are imposed down there over immigration questions. the bottom line, as every economist right, left, and center will tell you, tariffs do add to the cost of things.

>> right. >> raising inflation in america. >> well, it's heartening to know you two are subscribed to the japan news. >> online, obviously. >> you get it online? i get it delivered. >> paper boy? >> yeah. this gets to the point that we are all sort of wondering, right? how much and how quickly will trump move to really aggressively up-end things and this could be in the terms of tariffs, could be in terms of deportations, and could be in terms of pete hegseth allowing to go into your community and round up people illegally and what jonah goldberg was writing about will he overinterpret the mandate? he ran on this stuff. he wasn't hiding the ball on this stuff. voters voted for it and he is reason reason to say this is what they asked for and i'm going to give it to him and that will be justified. i do think a backlash it because

i don't know if voters these things and they are googling what is a tariff after the election and might be smart to google it before the election but whatever. that is what we have. so that could end up being the thing that sparks a backlash. people see the price of goods are going up because of tariffs and people who traditionally are helping you pick the vegetables from the ground have been deported and, suddenly, things are more costly and, wait this guy said he would get ntl of costs. these are all of the things we are waiting for and we will see how fast trump moves on january 21st and we will see how much he interprets the mandate as something he should pursue or something he should operate towards as a long-term goal. >> i will say as far as mandates go, you can -- we can sit here and say we don't overread your mandate and i think that certainly would be smart, especially when you look at things like what mike said. that a lot of voters went to the polls and they voted against the

rris administration because gas prices and groceries were higher and idn't like some social issues and stuff mixed in there. i don't think they want their groceries to go up because of tariffs. donald trump promised massive tariffs and ran on it and sort of the forefront of his economic policy. i know people on wall street, people "the wall street journal" editorial page are concerned about the tariffs and that was the centerpiece of his campaign. nobody should ask shock if he comes forward with massive tariffs and same thing we were talking about as far as mass deportation. he promised mass detoretation time and time again. that was at the forefront of his campaign and the american people voted for him. when we are talking about overreaching, how humanely do you, you know, interpret that mandate and how do you deport

that many citizens? that is going to be the question. that is going to be sort of the rub on how do you do it, fulfill a campaign promise and not turn off a lot of voters. >> not deporting illegal immigrants. >> what is that? >> deporting illegal immigrants. >> yeah. ahead, we will speak with democratic congressman and member of the armed services committee pat ryan who also served two combat tours in iraq with his reaction to donald trump nominating fox news host pete hegseth for defense secretary. plus, illinois governor jb pritzker and jared polis will join the conversation about their new plan to protect american democracy. >> look at that shot. t.j. has dialed it up again! drink it in, new york city. healthcare should evolve with you, and part of that evolution means choosing the right medicare plan

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the south dakota governor kristi noem who will serve as trump's homeland security which means dhs stands for dogs hide shotguns. i know. i know. it's important not to focus on that one time kristi noem shot a dog.

she also shot and killed the family's goat. we go now to the reaction of a goat to noem's appointment. >> noem has an impressive resume. a congresswoman and governor and during the campaign she was trump's most trusted backup dancer! ♪♪ >> wow! welcome back to "morning joe" on this wednesday, november 13th. jonathan lemire and mike barnicle are still with us. joining the conversation is jonathan martin of politico. good to have you. >> mike barnicle. >> i want to get to the news here. >> i want to get to "the news." >> yeah, but barnicle? >> i read something suggesting that the red sox were serious about getting soto. >> yeah. >> here we go! >> the hope that kills you. you want to break my heart now or do you think they will make a

serious run for him? >> i think they will make a serious run for him and break your heart in about three weeks. but i think they are going out there to see him and they will have money in the satchel, real money and something they haven't displayed in three or four years. >> the past three or four years, they have had monopoly money and players have opened it up and they are like, what? >> all right. thank you, mike. >> real money. let's hope. >> yeah. all right. >> he would look great at fenway like you always say, mika. one week after the 2024 election, democrats continue to assess the party's path forward. long time democratic strategist james carville addressed what he called democrats' fascination and here is what he told during an interview yesterday on msnbc. >> with reference to exotic positions which i'll call identity politics.

if you read the article in the times i gave harris credit but she does not bring this stuff but this is like on your clothes like in a fireplace and like smoke. you can't wash it off. the other side, it's true they never said it. do you know how many millions of dollars the republicans ran on anti-identity positions that politicians have taken in 2019 and 2020? the answer is a lot. you see in politics, the other side gets to play. you got to understand that and it's going to take another four years before we wash the stench of this off of her clothes. very relevant, alameda county, california. if you don't know that is oakland and berkeley, okay? that is the east bay. they recalled pro-identity politics prosecutor by 30 points so it was kind of on the ballot in alameda county. but, of course, this was a

stupid diversion for people to follow, possess people to get in to. -- for people to get in to. the problem is i clearly said harris didn't embrace this because ba it was embraced theyn on and senators asked senators manchin and brown and tester if they think that identity politics in the early part of this decade had an effect on their vote in this election. i can tell you what they are going to say, yeah, it did. we can all agree that the fascination with politics with people in the democratic party was a giant mistake. >> well, you know, there will some out there say they didn't talk about it during the campaign. of course, not. they talked about at the time past four or eight years. as es said, it was like smoke in a jacket or clothes that you

couldn't get it out and it takes a while to get it out. so they certainly ran $30 million of ads on social issues that tore away at it. you know, willie, i'm so glad james, in that clip, brought up california, because california easily went for kamala harris. you had a recall of d.a.s, i think in san francisco, i believe in los angeles. you had the mayor of san francisco defeated. and so much of it had to do with what you and i have been talking about for four years and that is just this very permissive approach toward crime and very permissive approach toward homelessness that is not safe and is not humane for those homeless living in tents in public places. this very permissive approach letting people go into stores and smashing and grabbing up to $1,000 in merchandise.

and not being charged with a felony. so california voters and one of the most liberal states in america, they reacted against this sort of post-2000 viewpoint on crime as well. and it's just not working anywhere. >> we saw it in new york city, too. you could talk about almost every major city where voters didn't turn out the way the hair resist campaign fully expected them to and certainly hoped they would. you can talk about detroit and philadelphia. a place like new york, the issue of bail reform, the resolving door of criminals getting arrested and being back on the street the next day, all of that stuff went to a feeling. you mentioned san francisco. it's not because the people who may have drifted from the democratic party and supported donald trump, it's not that they are maga extremists. it's they felt the common sense in some ways had been lost, that is didn't make any sense to allow someone to steal up to 850 or 950 dollars worth of

merchandise to keep it a misdemeanor and let that person not serve jail time. what is that? normal sensible people fairly asked and voted on this time around. jonathan martin, let's get tour latest piece in politico and titled "people not groups and how democrats can retool their message." jonathan writes, quote.

jonathan, we hear all the time the things you have to say and spourlt to win support and win a praem as democratic candidate for president and haunt you in a general election as 2019 kamala harris. >> exactly. willie, that is exactly right. that spot that got so much play thanks to the trump campaign was her speaking in 2019 because that was a period where the left was in full flower, the backlash that trump was on, and the assumption among most democrats was the path to getting back to power was trying to appear the most pure and race to the left in a primary. the one person, by the way, who didn't adopt that tactic was joe biden. he, obviously, won the primary and won the general but kamala harris paid a price not at the time, although they lost the

primary but she paid a price five years later when that ad got played so many times. this is, to me, the central question now with trump back in office. will democrats learn from their mistakes from the last time he was president? and not respond by this race to the left on every identity issue to please various groups and their coalition. will they resist that? will they take the harris pass? '19 or the biden path in '19 and to me is the question. what is encouraging i think so far in my column today, the response that i've gotten across the board from a lot of democrats is they just don't want to keep toeing the line. they know the identity politics and the language especially is alienating to large swath of the country and i think they are ready for some level of reform. >> i also read that that answer

came in response to an aclu questionnaire and a lot of democrats asking, why ask a question like that on a questionnaire? you're just setting somebody up in the future. but, j. mart, just for people -- people may not remember just how crazy things got in the democratic party in 2019 and 2020 how far people left got. mika said you need to be a democrat. you need to be a democrat. i kind of like this independent thing. i watched the first presidential debate and everybody up on that stage, except for i think joe biden, said they supported a return to bussing! i'm like, that was unpopular in 1974! they darted so far left in '19 and '20, you're right, they

snagged commercial from '19 during a time democrats thought i have to go far, far, far, far left to win. they snagged that and other things from 2019 and applied it to 2024 and america has gotten more conservative over the past five years because crime, because of the southern border and the inflation. you go through the list. so it's interesting that you say that democrats are responding positively to this and saying you're exactly right, we need to find a new way for it. it kind of reminds me of bill clinton, you know, in '99 through -- 1988 and 1992.

>> there is not an act of -- in flushing today. a lot of her district voted for her and voted for donald trump. these are first generation asian and hispanic immigrants. you say to them something like communities of color or, you know, we are going to uplift or center this or that, they don't know what the hell you're talking about. the party is using the language as carville often says the -- faculty long. grace said we have to use everyday american language. language that my grandmother can understand. that is a really important point. it doesn't take much. it's not a policy change but it's an important, i think, reform that has got to be made. >> so let's bring in political columnist for "new york" magazine ed kilgore. he writes democrats were crushed in 2004 and then everything changed. you write, in part, this, quote.

ed, the similarities between what happened in 2024 and '04 as you laid out in the piece is remarkable. willie and i sort of joked about the fact we have never seen manhattan so depressed as the day after george w. bush was re-elected. it may actually have been worse then than the day after donald trump, as you said. but there were so many parallels in the election results, how they turned out. but, also, the overconfidence of republicans. roe who knows a thing or two about politics looked at the 2000 election and republicans overperforming in 2002 and

overperforming in 2004 and spoke confidently about a republican majority and two years later, nancy pelosi was speaker of the house. four years later, barack obama won in a massive landslide. >> well, that is all correct. any time you hear people talking about permanent majorities or political realignment or anything so fundamental and you're hearing a lot of talk from the maga camp right now along those lines that things will never be the same. democratic core constituencies are abandoning the party left and right. trump is making huge gains in new york and california, which he did make some gains, but over interpreting the results in either direction is almost always a mistake. the ancient greeks called it huberus and i think a lot of that is going in trump circles right now. there is always a calculation

when you win an election, how much political capital could you expend on doing the things up to the that might backfire economically and politically or how much do you continue to pay attention to the electorate. one of the fascinating things to me in the 2004, george w. bush announced he was going to spend some of his political capital trying to to, quote, unquote, reform social security which for him meant a private scheme that backfired and republicans began abandoning bush on it right away and that was sort of the first step towards the debacles of 2006 and 2008. so if i were a republican, god forbid, i would be a little concerned about overreaching by this, you know, chronically over the top president and some of

the people around him based on what was in the end a pretty small victory. kamala harris came with less than 2% in the three so-called blue wall states in the upper midwest of winning the presidency. she came very close to doing that, even losing the national popular vote like trump did in 2016. so the idea that democrats are, you know, in some sort of free-fall now or republicans are building a majority that will last, you know, hundreds of years, is just really kind of silly. and i think both parties should avoid overinterpreting this election. >> ed, 2004 election, 20 years ago, i remember it well. it seemed as if it were two centuries ago, though, now in terms of what has happened in this country politically and every other way. but one of the biggest differences, we were just

talking about it with j. mart a few minutes ago is the democratic party, right now, seems to have raced away quite y and effective live the common sense. they say no more homeless people in america. therapy the unhoused now, things like that. they seemed not able to go back to common sense. so what would that do to their prospects of rebirth and electoral success? >> again, you could pull apart any close election and decide that one or two things caused the outcome. i think people are doing that. my old buddy james carville is one of them, or i think ascribing to this too much of this idea of wokeness. we are talking about a single moment in 2019 when kamala

harris did -- answered a questionnaire that showed her lining up three or four unpopular positions all tied up in a bundle, they managed to splice to go to some video and then ran ads on it at every single football game you saw toward the ends of the election. did that decide the election? i don't think so. fundamentally, i think the election was decided by the fact that democrats were in power after a pandemic that killed a million americans and disrupted every single person's lives. they were sort of caught with the consequences of that pandemic and the bad feelings. a significant ce of america wanted to go back to the pre-pandemic economy and society and lo and behold the guy on that was president then was the ballot and i think a lot more than the other fragment topics you can talk about. i'm a veterans of the democratic

leadership council so i'm aware that occasionally democrats need to be told, you know, talk common sense, address the voters, the electorate as is it exists and wish it exists so there you go. >> ed kilgore, thank you. good luck with the phone call from james which will certainly be coming later today. what are you talking about? j. mart it is interesting. we can do two things at once. we can talk about what the problem with the democrats has been. >> yes. >> you know, and talk through that. >> moving forward. >> moving forward. you know, we can look again at the swing states which, again, as i said, swing states, you know -- so wisconsin, kamala

harris lost by less than one percentage point. >> right. >> michigan, she lost by maybe 1.2. >> right. >> percentage points. so about 1% in michigan as well by the time the votes were tallied. in pennsylvania, by the time all of the votes are tallied, she will probably lose by 1.5 points. >> yeah. >> right in there. >> yes. >> like that is about as close as it gets. before everybody says this is like the worst thing that has ever happened. >> right. >> it's important to remember that, you know, a point here, a point there, a point and a half in pennsylvania, suddenly, you know, everybody is talking about how this was the greatest democratic campaign of all time. >> right! right. right. >> that said, there are structural problems and those aren't even in the states i'm looking at. i'm looking at texas, which democrats kept getting closer and closer and closer in texas. they were like within five or six points.

they got crushed in texas. you look along -- >> florida. >> -- on the southern border between texas and mexico, the southern border, which used to be all blue. >> rio grande valley. >> all the way up to the point until you get all the way up to el paso that is still blue. everything south of it, everything along the border, red. you look at florida. three-point difference in 2020. what is it? 12, 13, 14 now. >> right. >> they are getting absolutely crushed in middle america. >> yep. >> and so they have got to -- even if they win every single swing state four years from now, if they want to win the senate, they got to start playing in middle america and so it seems to me we can do two things at once. we say it's a close presidential race but, man, democrats have lost middle america. >> joe, the reason she had to

pull the inside strait and win the three blue wall states -- and you're right. it's going to be 200,000 votes and change between those three states. close election same at 2016 and 2020 was. the reason they are dependent upon having to win those three big ten states is because you can go from st. simon's georgia and sea island walt day to all the california and arizona border in the desert and you'll touch one blue state the entire time. you can't lose the southern tier of the united states and expect to have sort of easy map going forward. by the way, new mexico is the one state and i think new mexico and nevada are also warning signs for democrats, much more working class and heavily hispanic states. she lost nevada. new mexico was closer this time around. joe, it's a real challenge. if you're not able to compete in the big states like florida and

texas and you're losing most of the roast of the south outside virginia, it's going to be a challenge to get 270. you mentioned the senate, too. look. every state gets two senators. there is a lot more rural states than big urban states. it's a straightforward map issue. and the other thing is places like new jersey are getting closer. i don't think democrats are in danger of losing a place like jersey but you take a jersey or a new hampshire or a minnesota, these are all four to five, six-point states now. so, look. that is a real challenge for the party. it's a pure math issue. how do you find 270? well, if texas and florida aren't options, then you got to start digging. >> guess what. i mean, you're exactly right. virginia, a five-point margin. minnesota, only a four-point margin. >> right. >> new hampshire, only a three-point margin. i mean, these margins are getting tighter and tighter for

democrats in the states they are supposed to win and wider and wider for republicans in the states they are supposed to win. >> politico's jonathan martin, thank you. >> thank you. there is a major shake-up involving saudi arabia's multibillion dollar project to build a futuristic city in the desert. the long time ceo has abruptly left the world's biggest construction development amid delays, cost overruns, and staff turnover. according to "the wall street journal" the project calls for a floating business district and skyscrapers taller than the empire state building is a priority for saudi crown prince bin salman. sean diddy combs is trying to get released on bail as he faces charges of racketeering and sex trafficking and using transportation to engage in prostitution. his attorneys claim new evidence should allow the rapper to be

let out of jail ahead of his may 5 trial. combs has been in custody at a detention center in brooklyn since his arrest in september. he has pleaded not guilty to the charges in his case. u.s. judge is temporarily blocking the port of oakland from using san francisco in the oakland airport's name. they said the name change would likely cause consumer confusion and harm the city of san francisco. san francisco sued oakland for infringing its airport trademarks in april arguing the oakland airport's new name would mix up travelers. still ahead on "morning joe," we will be joined by a democratic lawmaker who won a second full term in a tough swing district. congressman pat ryan joins us next to talk about some of the positives from last week's election. "morning joe" is back in a moment. election "morning joe" is back in a moment a replacement we could trust. that's service the way we want it.

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♪♪ beautiful live picture of the united states capitol. 7:31 in the morning. among the silver ings ins democrats was the house candidates in the state of new york. democrats lost five competitive house races in new york during the 2022 midterms. three of those seats were flipped back in this election and a fourth taken back in a special election earlier this year. meanwhile, incumbent democratic congressman pat ryan held on to his seat and winning his third

election in as many years and doing to ingly and 13 points was the margin. congressman ryan joins us now. congressman, good morning. great to see you. i feel we have you on once a year and congratulate on winning an election. so congratulations again. just to remind our viewers about your districts. obviously, seen as a swing district. you won by 13 points. what was the message that you delivered to those voters who are maybe on the fence between donald trump and joe biden and maybe were considering walking away a bit from the democratic party. how did you hold on to so many of them? >> i'm really proud of our whole team and our whole community in a really tough moment nationally both backwards and looking and to come. we centered an optimistic, positive, and patriotic path and vision.

i have obsessively talked about affordability and freedom and talking about economic freedom and trying to give a place for people to come to, a thing for people come vote for, rather than just running against a lot of things. and, you know, rather than getting in these kind of back and forth cultural war finger pointing and decisive, really tried to focus on where do we share common ground and, to me, one of the things that really stands out here, at the end of the day, if you're talking moderate or progressive or liberal or conservative, you are missing the whole point of where real people are. folks want to know that a representative will fight for them and against all of the forces that are hurting them and harming them and putting this economic pressure and affordable ity crisis. we centered that every day in our campaign and i think a big

part of the way we had a decisive district. >> your district in new york is the most contested in the country. you outran vice president harris last week by 11 points. you won by 3 points and she won narrowly in your district. was would be your message? i know it's hard to apply it to every democrat because everyone's district is different and it's composed of different people and it may be more heavily progressive. if you were advising the leads-of-of the democratic party which is waking up a week later and picking up the pieces wondering what exactly happened and how they get back in the game, who would be your advice? >> i think it's pretty simple. it's get real and listen. like, stop talking to and at people and take the time to listen. i mean, minus the substance, it's about style. we worked so hard to show up in every corner of my district. i had this mobile constituent service man we call our cares

man. we went to all 82 of our towns over a huge geographic area over and over and over, and especially the ones that didn't vote for me, and really listened to people. when you do that, it's so clear that 80, 90% of people in this country are facing unprecedented tremendous economic pressure and we have to hear that, sit with that, and then show we are going to fight for them and show who we are going to fight against. i called out elites in power, whether that is big corporate power, that was our local monopolistic utility that had ripped people out or elite parties in both parties i think are increasingly just out of touch. i think it's get real. >> congressman, good morning. you are a veteran. you also sit on the armed services committee. so we want to get your reaction to donald trump's nomination of pete hegseth to run the pentagon. he, most recently, of course, a fox news host.

do you believe he is qualified to lead the department of defense? >> this is an incredibly serious time in the world. it's an incredibly serious cabinet position. and i don't think hegseth is a serious person and a serious pick. and, sadly, it's not surprising coming from trump who dodged a draft five times and called our troops suckers and losers and insulted gold star families and honor recipients and trampled on the sacred ground of arlington national cemetery. i'm not surprised that he picked a fox news host rather than someone who is going to understand the seriousness of the moment. i'm very concerned about what this means because we have ian season today reporting from "the wall street journal" talking about executive orders that are essentially military purges and political purity tests when our military has always been a political nonpartisan patriots.

not a political military. that is a very dangerous road that we could head down and on the armed services, i'm going to be incredibly focused on the armed services committee making sure that we don't go down that road. >> congressman, back to your advice for democrats. i completely agree on your approach, on your message, on your advice moving forward. i'm just curious. realistically, as best as you can answer this question, do you think it was easier to send the message being a man of your background? >> it's a good question. yeah, i think we have a lot of bias in this country, a lot of bias in our politics. and i have no doubt that, you know, being a white man, i guess, helps maybe connect with more people in my district that

has a lot of white men. i do think at the end of the day, if we are talking about identity, if we are talking about sort of divisive culture war issues, we are missing where real people are and the affordability pressure that they feel. and then we are talking right past them and they feel like we are part of the problem and you're just another politician focused on these things that don't get at the heart of what they are facing. but we do have to reckon with that, absolutely. >> i really appreciate your candor. democratic congressman pat ryan of new york, thank you for being on this morning and congratulations on your success. >> thanks. coming up, our next guest writes, quote, if you're sure how the next four years will play out, i promise, you're wrong. adam grant, a psychologist at

the wharton school of the university of pennsylvania, joins us next to explain. "morning joe" is back in a moment. ext to explain "morning joe" is back in a moment (vo) memory and thinking issues keep piling up? it may seem like normal aging but could be due to a buildup of amyloid plaques in the brain. the sooner you talk to your doctor,

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♪♪ welcome back to "morning joe." a shot of the white house. >> gorgeous. gorgeous day in d.c. >> where we have joe biden and donald trump meeting later today. >> that should be so

interesting. >> mika, our next guest helped me with my christmas presents last year. >> i know! and mine, too. >> and yours, too. >> so good. >> so adam grant wrote a book called "hidden potential." and what he talks about it getting out of your comfort zone and failing purposefully and getting better through failures. the greatest example i'm going to be talking about with him is he looked at -- who could speak so many languages and thought it was brilliant. when he talked to them he started to realize the only thing that separates them from the rest of us is they purposely went out of their way to make mistakes. and there was one guy probably picked up 20 different languages and his rule was when he went to a new country, he had to make

200 mistakes a day. 200 mistakes a day that he learned from. within a week or two, he was picking up the language. it's a brilliant way, especially for your children who may be concerned about failing, about getting outside of their comfort zone, or you or me or any of us, who are afraid to get out of our comfort zone, when you have that sort of mindset, then it is amazing how you unlock your hidden potential. that is what adam talked about in the book. so any way. aforementioned adam grant has an essay in "the new york times" and offers this advice to americans. >> here is the advice. pretty simple. if you're sure the next four years will play out, i promise you're wrong. and adam joins us now. he is an organizational psychologist at the wharton school of the university of pennsylvania. >> adam, did i get that story right? are you a different adam grant? >> you got it right, joe, although i don't think you can

get away with 200 mistakes on air a day! >> i do, somehow. somehow, i do. we keep on keeping on. >> we challenge you. >> so this seems like great advice in your essay. today, it sort of reminds meal of the dvt suggestion. >> yeah. >> don't suffer twice. don't suffer about the future ahead of time, and then most of the time, what you were suffering about doesn't come to fruition, don't suffer twice. that appears to be what you're saying here. >> yeah. i think that is well put. i think we are constantly overconfident about our ability to predict future events and we fail to learn the lessons over and all over again that we are wrong. there are so many examples of this but i think back to the treaty of versailles in 1919 they celebrated peace and didn't

realize the future. i wonder how many times we have to go through experiences like that before we finally realize, look. just because we think the outcome is good today doesn't mean it will lead what we want tomorrow and vice versa. >> professor grant, it's so great to see you. i have my adam grant desk calendar ready for 2025, something to think about. so suffice to say, we are very happy to see your face in a moment like this. let's talk about other advice and observations you make in this column. you say pain and sorrow are never permanent. they evolve over time. they help us find sense and meaning and fuel change which is to say it's okay to be upset and it's okay to be shocked and frustrated. this week probably if you're a democrat in to some kind of despair. the question is what do you do with that going forward? >> willie, i think the whole point of unpleasant emotions is that they are supposed to teach us lessons like the same way you touch a hot stove it hurts so

you pay attention and you make changes. i think a lot of people are feeling what we might call election dejection and the point of that is to prompt analysis which we are seeing a lot of now of what went wrong for democrats. i think many people are feeling morally outraged and the purpose of that is to get you to fight against the status quo and try to drive change. i think many people are worried about what is going to come next and in psychology, worrying is problem solving which i think the world needs a lot of right now. >> adam, willie just took basically what i was going to is ask you, pain and sore restraining -- sorrow are never permanent, you write. i want to ask you about pain and sorrow never being permanent. when you walk around the upper west side of new york city and you are confronted by people who will stop you and start crying about what happened a week ago on election day.

it seems to me their pain and sorrow, they will be constantly reminded of it on television each and every day as the president-elect proceeds the next four years. what do you do did the permanence of that particular kind of pain? >> i don't think it's easy but it's worth remembering that things could always be worse. let's go back to 2020. how many democrats cheered when joe biden won that election? i think with the benefit of hindsight, many democrats would feel we would have been better off if trump had won in 2020 now knowing that he won in 2024. there would have been no lie about election fraud. there would have been no january 6th insurrection. we would have probably most moderates and qualified people surrounding him. and i don't want to say that imagining how things could be worse is uplifting or energizing for most people. but it does make us grateful for what we have.

>> yeah. and maybe i shouldn't say that -- this, but, also, don't sit in front of the tv or on your phone all day and doom scroll. go outside and walk around and look up at the sun! >> okay. >> get a life outside of politics! adam, yes? >> there is a good takeaway here. the new piece is online for "the new york times." organizational psychologist at the wharton school of the university of pennsylvania, adam grant, once again, thank you very much. thanks for coming on the show this morning. still ahead on "morning joe," we are going to bring you a live report from capitol hill ahead of leadership elections in both the senate and the house. also ahead, new reporting on the incoming administration and how it might go about pairing out trump's mass deportation plan. "morning joe" is coming right back. tion plan "morning joe" is coming right back a bend with a bump in your erection

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still ahead on "morning joe," we will go over the latest staff picks for donald trump's new administration, including his controversial choice for secretary of defense. plus, we will go live to the white house for a preview of today's meeting between president joe biden and the president-elect. "morning joe" is coming right back. vyvgart hytrulo, a subcutaneous injection that takes about 30 to 90 seconds. for one thing, could it mean more time for you? vyvgart hytrulo can improve daily abilities

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i confess i do not know who pete hegseth was until about 20 minutes ago. he does not seem to have much of a detailed background in d.o.d. policy. to the extent he's worked under any of that stuff it has been on veterans' policy, not on d.o.d. issues. it's -- the lack of experience is concerning. now, i have -- what his plans are, so -- but was surprising and it is -- it is concerning just given that lack of experience. the pentagon -- is a hard -- so

i think it's going to be a challenge. that was the ranking member of the armed services committee, democratic congressman adam smith of washington state reacting to donald trump's pick for defense secretary. even some republicans on capitol hill were caught off guard by the collection of the fox news host, pete hegseth, admitting they don't know much about him at all. we'll play their reactions and go through trump's other cabinet picks. also ahead, we'll preview the white house meeting later this morning between president biden and president-elect trump, part of biden's commitment to a peaceful transfer of power. the incoming administration appears. [ no audio ] trump's promise -- joins us with new reporting on that. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is wednesday, november 13th. along with joe, willie and me, we have the host of "way too

early" white house bureau chief at politico jonathan lemire, managing editor at the bulwark sam stein and investigations reporter for the "washington post" jackie alemany. we'll start this morning with donald trump's pick for secretary of defense. he has chosen fox news host ete hegseth as the next leader of the pentagon. a veteran who served with the army national guard. in statement trump described hegseth as, quote, tough, smart, and a true believer in america first. during an interview on a podcast just last week, hegseth criticized what he called woke policies in the military and said that women should not be allowed to serve in combat. >> there's a chance to course correct it, but it would take the new -- a new trump administration going after it really hard. >> how would they correct it? >> first of all, you've got to

fire chairman of the joint chiefs and fire -- obviously, bring in a new secretary of defense, but any general that was involved, general, admiral, involved in any of the dei woke [ bleep ] has to go. either you're in for war fighting and that's it, that's the only litmus test we care about. you got to get dei and crt out of academy not training young officers to be baptized in this type of thinking. whatever the standards -- whatever the combat standards were in 1995, make those the standards. i think huge one is women in combat and quotas. i think the way they pushed that under obama in a way that had nothing, zero to do with -- to do with lethality capability. >> you don't like women in combat. >> no. >> why not? >> i love women service members who contributed amazingly. because everything about men and women serving together makes the

situation more complicated, and complication in combat means casualties or worse. >> so willie, obviously, a lot of concern among democrats, among some republicans, but this, obviously, is going to be i think i saw jake sherman say yesterday this might be the biggest challenge of any pick so far to be get through only because, obviously, as adam smith said before, you know, the pentagon is a massive bureaucracy. i served four terms on the armed services committee, and i can tell you even the most experienced general, admiral, ceo, that went into the pentagon, got spun around in circles. it's -- it's a lot easier to say what you're going to do on a podcast, than it is when you're actually over at the pentagon.

and people that think that generals and admirals that have given their entire life to this country are just going to roll over, is a serious misreading of the pentagon. we'll see what happens. people will see what he says when he's in front of the senate. we'll see what we hear in the coming days and weeks. and as adam smith said, judge him by what he says then. >> we heard some republicans, not critical of the pick, openly [ inaudible ] but [ inaudible ] saying some -- [ inaudible ] don't know who he is. it's telling they're not coming out publicly and criticizing it. that's the power of trump. these men and women in the senate, men and women in the house, don't want to cross him. they believe he is swept in with a mandate and whatever he does, we'll see how they vote. we'll see the questions they pose, as you say, when it comes down to confirmation time. at least publicly we're not

hearing republicans critical of this choice, which to put it mildly surprised a lot of people. not just in washington but across the country. let's bring in nbc news national security editor david rode. good morning. what reaction are you hearing to at least this nomination to be secretary of defense? >> it is a surprise and the clips like the one you played come out, it's going to raise major issues. there are women in combat, women who engage in ground combat v to take physical tests. can they pick up and carry another soldier who is wounded is one of them and very large amount of women who are combat pilots, very experienced ones. again, i think he should have his hearings and he should talk through these ideas, but they're more i guess talking points, political talking points, versus the concrete realities of these policies. so it is a supplies. there's been good, you know, i think picks more centrist like

marco rubio that have been, you know, i think seen in a positive light by national security experts, but this one is definitely a surprise. >> and this pick comes -- and we should note -- it comes hours after an important reporting from "the wall street journal" that says the trump transition team is considering a draft executive order to establish a warrior ward of retired senior military personnel with the power to review three and four star officers and recommend that they be deemed unfit for leadership. mostly over their support for dei and woke policies per this reporting. this would allow trump who can fire anyone he wants as commander in trump, this allows the advisory board to do so to remake senior levels of the pentagon and jackie, pete hegseth says the appointment would be a part of that if he does lead the d.o.d. he is someone, as we rolled through some of his comments about women in combat, just now played a clip there, he spoke at cpac.

he's a political figure here, a partisan figure in his fox news perch. let's talk about the possibility that this might be the pick that republicans do have some questions about. republicans in the senate likely a rubber stamp for most of trump's nominations but this one might be different. how do you see it play out? >> historically, we've seen congress give a lot of deference to presidents when it comes to confirming their cabinets. there have been some blowout and dramatic fights, though, and i think that pete hegseth could be that rare fight for senate republicans, but as we've talked about, you know, the past few months, the lack of dissenters in senate is, perhaps, troubling for any sort of pushback to someone like hegseth, who as you noted, has 20 years of service in the military, two bronze stars, but has zero experience when it comes to actually navigating a bureaucracy or serving in the defense

department. overseeing the world's most powerful and largest military. i think that this is going to be the first test of who ultimately stands up to trump. we were just talking about how trump has gotten involved in all of these battles that traditionally president-elects have not gotten involved in, such as picking the senate majority leader, weighing in and essentially ushering and facilitating this media campaign and make america great campaign to tap someone like rick scott who would be expected to implement recess appointments which would allow trump to take this expansive approach to executive authority and presidential power and allow him to usurp the senate to make someone a recess appointee, essentially they would serve in the job for a year without formal senate confirmation, where it only takes a simple majority to push someone through like pete hegseth. but you have people like, you know, susan collins, lisa

murkowski, there are a few people left who are going to put up a fight. people who are -- are not isolationists, are -- i don't know if we necessarily call them interventionists, but people who wouldn't support comments pete hegseth has made in the past and positions he's taken, such as being one of the leading forces who lobbied trump to pardon war criminals. >> so david rhodes, let's expand this out just -- and this will be the last question because we have so many picks to get to. there's a very big. [ no audio ] for people out there saying, you know, donald trump will be able to get whoever he wants through the senate and then they can go and have what, you know, republicans would call the witch hunt and go around and pick generals that they want to fire and just -- just get rid of them, again, i'm curious your thought. i think it's -- i think it's a dangerous misreading of the

pentagon because if you start going through and firing generals for political reasons, there is a general feeling and attack on one is an attack on all. and i suspect that would cause a great, great deal of problems. so when i started saying that they're going to have a board to go out and go through and fire generals and admirals they didn't like, i again thought, just not that easy. it's just -- the pentagon and the united states military is set apart and they are not going to bend to the will of anyone who they believe is issuing unconstitutional orders. >> that's true. and that's because lives are at stake here. you want the best possible commander leading american forces when they go into combat.

the broader question -- and we've talked about this before and we'll talk about it again -- as a national security editor, we're going to look at these security agencies and the question is, will donald trump try to politicize them? will he be picking and choosing, you know, leaders, generals, with this committee appears to do, for people who support him politically. and again, the pentagon is the starkest example of that, you know, again you want the best possible military leader, not the most loyal one, leading our, you know -- all of our military members in the combat and then you'll see the same thing at the cia. you need the best spying, but also analysis of russia and china, possibly the biggest threats we face. at the justice department and fbi you want the best possible law enforcement officials countering threats in the united states. so that's going to be the broad dynamic here and the narrative is, are these experts, you know, or are they political loyalists who are in these critical national security agencies?

>>less talk about the cia. president-elect trump named john ratcliffe as his pick for cia director. the former republican congressman from texas served as director of national intelligence in trump's first administration. the first attempt to install him in 2019 failed after he removed himself from consideration following he appeared to misrepresent his careers a federal prosecutor in texas. donald trump also selected south dakota governor kristi noem to lead the department of homeland security, praising her statement for being very strong on border security. noem has no significant experience with homeland security issues, but has supported trump's hardline immigration policies. she also defended fellow republican governors in their efforts to crack down on migrants in their state. let's go back to cia and then get to governor noem in a second. john ratcliffe, a guy very familiar to donald trump, worked with him in the first administration, a former republican congressman, what's the sense on the hill of what

kind of cia director he would be? >> he's one of the picks by virtue of having been there in the first term will probably sail through confirmation. people are familiar with him. there's no immediately red flags like there were the first time around because of the misrepresentation you talked about. same to noem to a degree. the real one is pete hegseth where people are sort of dumbfounded by it. i'm amazed how stayed the conversation has been to this point about hegseth. if we're being frank the reason he's picked is because he's on "fox and friends." this is true of a number of these picks. mike waltz happened to be the congressman who appeared on fox more than any other sitting republican member of congress. these people grab trump's attention because of television appearances, he's drawn to the idea they can present on a media he loves.

contemporaneous reporting suggests that the hegseth decision was done in a matter of 24 hours, there's internal confusion about it. similar with noem a little bit, people wondering what kind of credentials she has to run dhs, which we should note oversees fema response and can help with that. we're getting to the main point which is that this is trump, right. people have become sort of -- come to internalize the idea he's going to choose people not necessarily based on credentials, but based on their ability to handle television interviews and on their personal loyalty to him. i think with the hegseth thing, sorry to keep going back, but it's the most controversial one, he's -- they've been pretty much clear about their desire to use the military domestically, right. this was an issue in the first term where they want to put down some of the protests happening in lafayette square. [ inaudible ] it was a problem for the military leaders at the time. they didn't realize they were being coopted in that way. the military officials spoke out

against trump after the fact. s i think he looks at this and says i don't want to have to deal with that again, so find the most -- the biggest fan he can find as defense secretary and jam it through the senate and that seems to be what's happening here. >> well, we will see. again, the senate testimony will be fascinating -- >> really. >> unless it is a recess appointment. i do think with some of the issues you will have some republicans that will have some kidnappers. we'll see. again -- have some concerns. saying something on a tv show, we've done that once or twice, and on a podcast, is far different than when you're off a tv show or you're off a podcast and we'll wait and see what his position and his approach is to these extraordinarily important issues. i will only say this, again, that the united states military is stronger today than it has been relative to the rest of the

world any time since 1945. so when tommy tuberville starts trashing our men and women in uniform, i do wonder what he's trying to prove and what -- where he's going with it. and i certainly hope that if, in fact, this is the incoming secretary of defense, he, too, understand the united states military is stronger today than any time since -- since world war ii. we are an extraordinarily powerful battle hardened country with a military that fought in iraq and afghanistan. we have seen what's happened in ukraine over the past two years or so. we have learned a hell of a lot from it. russia's military has been severely weakened without the loss of one american soul. so our military, you talk to anybody across the world that has seen the united states military go up and down, they

will tell you just how strong we are. and i certainly hope that the incoming secretary of defense shares that belief. nbc news national security editor david rohde, i wanted to ask you about john ratcliffe. he's been in the intel community before. what are your thoughts about him going to the cia? >>. >> again, it helps he served in the past, and i want to be fair and point out one positive thing. kasie hutchinson's testimony at the january 6th hearing said the behind the scenes at that point in the final days of the trump administration, he urged -- you know, he did not participate in and question trump's efforts to return -- sorry to reverse the outcome of the election. so that was something that, you know, should be noted here. and i do think there will be less opposition to him. it's going to be this i think pressure -- and i'll just keep saying it -- sort of politicize the findings of the cia to point out that certain foreign leaders

who the president likes, as the intelligence analysis gentler on them than people that the president doesn't like and the dangers of, again, having, you know, politics drive analysis and foreign policy decisions completely politics are personal loyalty, personal politics. >> right. >> versus what's best for the country. >> the incoming trump administration is eyeing immigrant detention centers near major u.s. cities. nbc's julia ainsley here with her new reporting on that. that's straight ahead on "morning joe." t. that's straight ahead on "morning joe."

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♪♪ let's take a look now some of the other stories making headlines. the air national guard member responsible for a massive leak of classified information was sentenced to 15 years in prison. 22-year-old jack teixeira worked as an i.t. specialist at a massachusetts base when he smuggled out images of hundreds of classified document and posted them on a chat platform popular with video games. the material included government secrets about the war in ukraine and espionage efforts by china against the u.s. fee mix police released dramatic body cam foot annual of an officer rescuing a man trapped inside a car that ended up submerged in a pool.

witnesses called 911 to report a vehicle that drove off a road after 2:00 a.m. on halloween. when police arrived they jumped into the pool, smashed the car's sun roof and pulled the person to safety. the man was taken to a nearby hospital to get checked out. police haven't said what caused the crash so far, but they are looking into it. that is also this -- [ no audio ] calling off its holiday lights show at its flagship store in new york's midtown manhattan. >> why? >> the spectacle has drawn huge crowds of tourists for two decades. kind of iconic. according to the "new york times" the change appears to be a move to cut costs. >> what are willie, and i supposed to do in the winter solstice now? we for 17 years have been going down there, been handing out

candy bars to orphans and others who are hungry. we don't know exactly what we're going to do now. this is sort of an end of an era personally for us. [ no audio ] you watch the television. we talked about that yesterday. so -- so, you know, they're selling these things on tv and on the internet where your car gets submerged and they made [ inaudible ] like you can get a hammer, right. >> yeah. >> have you seen that dude, how you turn it around and go boop and the whole car shatters. >> yeah. a corner in the right spot the whole thing shatters. >> yeah. get one of those in your car. do i need to be thinking about that. i don't think mika -- she's not a good driver but i don't think there's going to be -- >> i'm a perfectly good driver. >> put a car in a pool. >> how did the car get in the pool again. >> i have further questions, your honor, about what led up to that heroic act by the officers.

>> amazing. >> it's tough to get your car in a pool, put that's way. >> the whole car. >> unless it's in a like rock -- an mtv video. i saw that happened once in smashing pumpkins 1979. >> the camera -- >> yeah. >> i'm not sure. >> how did that get in there? >> you got to work hard. you got to work hard at doing that. we're glad no one was injured here and also that we were able to give free publicity to whoever made that thing that you press a button and the car shatters. >> coming up we're going to go live to the white house, straight ahead of president biden's meeting with president-elect donald trump. nbc's eter alexander has a preview and joins us straight ahead on "morning joe." preview ahead on "morning joe. travelin. the thrill seeker. the soul searcher. and - ahoy! it's the explorer! each helping to protect their money with chase. woah, a lost card isn't keeping this thrill seeker down. lost her card, not the vibe. the soul searcher, is finding his identity,

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administration is talking with private prison companies about inincreasing the amount of immigration detention centers and buildings near them. major u.s. cities. two sources familiar with the plan told nbc news. the centers would be used to hold immigrants before they are deported as part of trump's promise to mass deportation plan. the goal is to reportedly double the current number of i.c.e.'s 41,000 detention beds. sources say the plan would also include the restarting of the policy of detaining parents with their children known as family detention, a policy the biden administration stopped in 2021. >> let's bring in one of the authors of that new reporting, homeland security correspondent julia ainsley. what can you tell us about donald trump's plans for building more detention centers. >> there is to hold people who have been arrested in the interior of the country. we're getting a window into the

details as they're being flushed out about how the trump administration is going to carry out this mass deportation effort, what trump said will be the largest in american history. what they're looking at now are new locations to expand capacity. they want to get to over 80,000 beds to be able to hold that many immigrants at a time after they're arrested before they're deported. they're talking to these private prison companies like geo group, lasal, core civic, places that -- companies that have had big soars in their stock market prices because of the noted expansion. these are companies that can get facilities running very quickly. they're looking at major metropolitan areas. one of my sources say they're looking at areas around miami, los angeles, chicago, and the 95 corridor between philadelphia and new york and d.c. these are areas where they need to expand detention because this isn't just for migrants who have recently crossed the border. it's to hold people who have just been arrested.

that also means holding families. this is something we expected the trump administration to bring back. now we understand they're making plans for it. these are detention centers much more expensive to operate because of court orders that dictate how you treat children in detention, rightfully so. those are more expensive and something the biden administration said this isn't necessary and isn't in keeping with our moral philosophy about immigration. he ended it. we understand the trump administration plans on bringing back family detention as they grow to a large extent. >> so it's this issue, this plan that the democrats, so many depressed and upset about the election. they think this will be the galvanizing protest movement when this gets started. tell us what you've learned here in terms of like those who going to be targeted. i know you said not just recent migrants. does that include people who have been here for years and secondly, who is actually carrying out these raids. which agency, which department,

which staffers, which force are going to actually be pulling these people potentially from their homes? >> it would be led by i.c.e., but trump has said that he would try to use the militaries as well if he can get to that legally and also to call on local police departments even though a lot of them already say their resources are stretched thin. yes, these are people oftentimes who have been living in the country for a long time. they said they will prioritize criminals but as we see when trying to expand family detention, no one is off the table here. in fact, i spoke to former dhs secretary chad wolf who stayed engrained with this group with the incoming trump administration over the past four years, and he said look, there should be no exemptions because if you exempt one group more of those people will come. when you talk about protests the fact that they're looking at these major metropolitan areas, building a new place to hold migrants outside denver, l.a., chicago, they could be garnering protests for that. they're looking at structures trying to see how many beds available in say a county jail or existing i.c.e. detention

centers but they could have to build up temporary softsided facilities to try to increase capacity quickly. that could look like tents. that's something else that draws a spectacle, could draw protests. they started to hammer out some of these details they're not shying away from the visuals. in fact, i think that's what they want. they want to show a really big impact on day one, something stephen miller has said they've been given a mandate to do and wants to see 1 million immigrants arrested and deported each year. >> nbc news homeland security correspondent julia ainsley thank you very much. this just in, jack smith, the special counsel pursuing two investigations into president-elect trump, is set to step down before the new administration takes power. "the new york times" reports smith plans to finish his work and resign alongside his team. smith also plans to file a report that summarizes his work and decisions for release to the

public since his investigations will no longer go to court. smith is investigating trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election as well as his mishandling of classified documents. the justice department has a long-standing policy that a sitting president cannot be prosecuted for crimes. there's so many reasons jack smith took this action. the practical impact of it. you also have the long-standing justice department ruling and guidance that a sitting president can't be indicted. you also, of course, have the supreme court immunity ruling which looms large over any investigation over the incoming president. >> yeah. and i think it's fitting in a way that this news is breaking on the day that donald trump's heading to d.c. to meet with joe biden in the white house, getting the audience at the white house that he never gave to biden during the last transition of power. i mean this goes to show you the

dual plains on which these two are operating. donald trump prompted an insurrection for which he was investigated for which a special counsel was launched. joe biden will oversee an orderly transition of power. you know, obviously, smith was never going to be able to continue his case against trump once trump assumed office for the reasons he outlined. trump was going to fire him within two seconds. the question was always, what would he do with the co-conspirators, and i'm curious if those -- i mean, i assume they're going to have to drop those cases if smith is resigning. obviously, if you believe that he had a virtuous case, he should have seen it to the end, this is a depressing moment because trump will have evaded the accountability that he richly deserved for january 6th and that's what happens when you win an election. you get to, you know, skirt that responsibility. i think that's here. >> coming up president-elect donald trump set to meet with house republicans on capitol hill. nbc's ali vitali is staking out

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senate republicans will vote for a new leader today. this morning senators john thune of south dakota, john cornyn of texas and rick scott of florida all seeking the position. last night the candidates made their final pitches and answered questions during a closed-door forum. today's vote will be by secret ballot. that is notable. the winner will be majority leader when the republicans take control of the senate in the new congress. so jackie, there's been a push by some close advisors and supporters of donald trump to get rick scott to that senate leadership position, but how is the hill handicapping this race this morning? >> yeah. there's certainly been an unorthodox campaign around getting rick scott to the next majority leader, since mitch mcconnell in 18 years. you have seen a number of people

publicly endorse him, but at the end of the day, today, it's going to be a secret ballot vote, so that -- the results are really unexpected and this could, perhaps, be the first opportunity for senate republicans to buck president-elect trump and the person that he's tapped rick scott to be the next majority leader. mike lee, senator from utah, he held a roundtable discussion last night for members to be able to hear the pitches from the different candidates, john thune, john cornyn, the johns as we call them, and rick scott. they all have similar reforms, which is essentially giving more deliberative process back to rank and file members. many have been critical of the way mcconnell has conducted business. senator lee has called them "the firm" and basically says he's backing rick scott because scott is the most reform-minded

candidate to buck the pour of the firm to allow members to call more amendments, to be more deliberative about spending bills and enact the trump agenda. i think that is the key point here. and i think the decision that lawmakers have is whether or not they want someone like rick scott who has made it clear he's going to be a right-hand man and tool of donald trump in terms of expanding presidential power and potentially, you know, bypassing the congress completely to get certain things done. or are they going to go with more moderate candidates like cornyn or thune who have a laundry list as we've seen this maga campaign air, of discrepancies with trump when it comes to certain policies. >> that meeting starts at 9:30 in washington. gop conference gets together and will pick its new leader. "the washington post" jackie allah may, thank you so much.

jonathan lemire, that meeting, donald trump and president biden at the white house, courtesy not extended, of course, by donald trump to joe biden four years ago as she was contesting the election. >> it's sort of an unthinkable scene in some ways. the last time donald trump was in the white house when he shrunk out the morning of january 20th, 2021, opted not to attend incoming president biden's inauguration that afternoon. he left that morning instead on marine one. at that moment when it seemed like his political career was over hard to imagine he would come back to the white house and now he is and doing so as president elect. we are expecting a photo on, customary between the two men in the oval office. they'll probably say a few words for the cameras. that's about it. we'll see if they respond to shouted questions. it's a victory lap for donald trump coming in here. we'll recall when he came in 2016, he was invited by then president obama. trump told by people who were there was very nervous, sort of overwhelmed by the setting.

he couldn't believe he had won and achieved the oval office. i don't think we should expect that ha this time around. obama warned him north korea would be the biggest international challenge he faced then. i don't know if president biden will try to impart wisdom to trump. he may. it's unclear if trump will listen. a credit to president biden here to adhering to this tradition, reviving this tradition, to invite his successor to the oval office as painful as it must be, joe and, mika, because we know, of course, that joe biden since the beginning of his 2020 campaign and throughout his four years in office, has labeled donald trump an existential threat to the nation's democracy and now he has to welcome trump in to that oval office as his successor. coming up, what to expect from the october inflation report. those numbers are crossing this hour. cnbc's andrew ross sorkin joins us with more on that. business before the bell is straight ahead on "morning joe." " customize and save with liberty mutual.

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so we got rid of the [ inaudible ] pete hegseth as secretary of defense, kristi noem running homeland security and maybe for secretary of education trump might nominate this guy. >> i would like to buy a "u." >> you're going to get through "u"s. >> i would like to solve the problem. >> let's hear it. >> treat yourself a round of sausage. >> that's not it. >> wait. treat yourself a round of sausage wasn't the answer? >> that's always -- >> that's always my answer to every one, right. >> sam. >> sam has a headache. >> a round of sausage. like sausage on me. >> willie. >> yeah. >> okay. >> go to a bar. hey, the sauerkraut is on me,

everybody. >> as you can see mike barnicle has joined the conversation. >> round of sausage. >> that poor guy. when he realized what it was. >> i'm hungry. given what you just said, conservative columnist joan na goldberg has a piece entitled "victimer tos you republicans are once again falling for the mandate trap" and jonna writes, whatever trump believes his mandate is at least for some of the people who voted for him will have different ideas. say for dealing with inflation and writing the economy. there's very little that he can do that won't result in some people saying this isn't what i voted for. once again, a victorious party is sticking its head in the mandate trap. the -- in the 21st century, writes, presidents win elections because their opponents were

unpopular and then imagining the public has endorsed their party activists' agenda, they use the power of their office to make themselves unpopular. this is why the incumbent party lost for the third time in a row in 2024. a feat not seen since the 19th century. hence, the irony of the mandate trap. in theory, trump could solidify his build on his winning coalition, but that would require disappointing the people insisting he has a mandate to do whatever he wants, which is why it's unlikely to happen. >> you know, the thing is, mike barnicle, donald trump, obviously -- this is a victory, as we've said, that belongs to donald trump. it doesn't have to do, though, with ideology so much, if you look at the fact that in the swing states that donald trump won, democrats won the senate in nevada, democrats won the senate in arizona, which, of course,

they had a real progressive winning -- win there. they won the senate in wisconsin. they won the senate in michigan. it looks like they've lost the senate in pennsylvania. but the -- the state and other -- other people are not calling the race yet because the republican is 30,000 ahead of the democrat and by last count i saw state said there was still 100,000 provisional ballots, absentee, overseas ballots, so -- but that's going to end up being close. we suspect dave mccormick will win that officially, probably over the next several days. still -- and again, then go to north carolina, you have a democrat that won by double-digits in north carolina. republicans saying we won this massive mandate and basically a 50-49 divided country, will make the same mistake bill clinton

made in '92 when he overreached and helped elect people like me in '94 and republicans got in control for the first time in 40 years. joe biden won a very close race in 2020 and people started saying you need to be like fdr. well, he didn't have the fdr mandate and many people thought he overreached as well. and so there is always, as joan na says, the back and forth, back and forth. and we will see whether donald trump will try to build on those successes or overreach like just about every other president has done this century. >> you know, what's interesting, all the races you mentioned were statewide various senators, governors and things like that. the top of the house vote for the president of the united states separates that office from everything else. i think what happens people vote for the presidency on either up or down. vote for him or against him. or for her or against her in

this case. a lot of people turned their backs in the democratic party because of what they were hearing from democrats. that's another thing i would submit. and they didn't go for what they were hearing and how they were living in it. inflation, of all the things that impacted the election, inflation still remains and was the critical factor. because what the biden administration was doing nearly every day, god bless them, coming on television and telling people, voters, that we had the strongest economy in the world, that is actually the truth, we have the strongest economy in the world, but it's not the economy the average lived economy that people endure each and every day in this country. people pulling into gas stations in brand new ford f-150 trucks or expensive or old cars and getting half a tank of gas because they are running out of money looking at the numbers trolg on the gas thing. grocery prices. that's what did it. not ideology. money. >> coming up our next guests are

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. he's moved into mar-a-lago and based on this photograph looks like he may have moved into the trump family itself. . >> got you. >> that's good. >> do a family shot. gorgeous. >> perfect. >> now did you notice who is not in the photo. elon was. you see what you get for $100 million. >> from mar-a-lago to capitol

hill, an adviser to donald trump says that elon musk will join the president-elect in washington for his meeting with house -- the house republican conference. musk flew to d.c. aboard trump's plane. welcome to the fourth hour of "morning joe." 6:00 a.m. on the west coast. >> in for a penny, in for a pound. he's all in. jonathan lemire is with us. president-elect trump is set to visit the white house for the first time since his election win. let's bring in chief white house correspondent peter alexander live from the white house. peter, what's the latest. this should be quite a meeting. >> yeah. that's an understatement. you can expect plenty of public pleasantries to be exchanged today which is basically the exact opposite of the words the two have exchange over the last several years where they regularly traded insults. it is president-elect trump's first time back in the white

house since his defeat and departure four years ago and comes as trump is rolling out new cabinet picks, many of them on the social media side, including one that surprised even some of his alleys. president biden and president-elect set trump to set down in the oval office their first to face since trump's victory. four years after trump refused to host president-elect biden. the newest announcement catching some of trump's allies off guard, pete hegseth tapped for defense secretary, trump posting "with pete at the helm america's enemies are on notice." hegseth is an infantry officer who served in iraq and afghanistan and would lead 1.3 million active duty troops. he's indicated how he would shake up the military arguing it focuses too much on diversity. last week, discussing how he

would, quote, course correct. >> any general that was involved, general, admiral involved in the dei woke [ bleep ] has to go. >> reporter: also saying women in combat roles. >> hasn't made us more effective, lethal, made fighting more complicated. >> reporter: trump announcing elon musk, and vivek ramaswamy will lead a new department of government efficiency, comparing its creation to the atomic bomb program the manhattan project. trump says musk and ramaswamy will provide advice from outside of the government. musk, who has been an adviser to trump since the election and frequent presence at his mar-a-lago club, runs companies that have billions of dollars in government contracts. >> elon thinks he can cut the costs of our government by $2 trillion. >> reporter: ramaswamy has campaigned on ending federal agencies including the fbi and department of education. but it's unclear how much power the commission would have.

and former arkansas governor mike huckabee, an evangelical christian, for u.s. ambassador to israel, huckabee supports israeli settlements in the occupied west bank. >> there is no such think as a west bank. there's no such thing as a settlement. they're communities. >> reporter: president-elect trump has announced some of his cabinet picks faster this go round than eight years ago. some of them as you have been talking about face roadblocks in the senate that confirms nominees for the high-level post. trump is trying to avoid possible delays like those he faced in 2016 demanding republican senators allow recess appointments that would temporarily place picks in office without a confirmation hearing or a senate vote. even as we were speaking we just heard from the office of melania trump on x a moment ago. she writes, i'll read it they write, "mrs. trump will not be attending today's meeting at the white house. her husband's return to the oval office to commence the transition process is

encouraging", and it says "she wishes him great success." in this instance several unnamed sources in the media continue to provide false, misleading and inaccurate information. the office adds "be discerning with your source of news." the biggest takeaway is that the office on behalf of melania trump says she wishes her husband great success. it will be interesting to see what if any role she plays, if she does come here to the white house with him this go-round. back to you. >> nbc's peter alexander, live from the white house. thank you so much. as we mentioned before, president-elect trump is going to be attending a meeting with president biden at the white house today and he's set to meet with the republicans on the hill as well. >> let's bring in nbc news capitol hill correspondent ali vitali. what can we expect from the meeting this morning? >> look, we know that trump is now going there with elon musk who is going to huddle with house republicans as they celebrate what they expect to be another term in the majority. this really sets up a landscape, guys, that we've talked about

before, one where trump is coming into office with control of both chambers on the other side of pennsylvania avenue. it's exactly what he had last time. to me, the biggest key difference is the ways that these conferences have changed over the last several years. they have become more ro-trump, pro-maga and in greater number as well. on the house and senate side that is a dynamic as we watch this party chart a path forward, i think what's fascinating on the house side is just the ways in which he has allies installed at every turn and in every committee. people who are wielding gavel power, who will have subpoena power, many of them are allies like jim jordan and others, the speaker of the house, too, mike johnson, told us just yesterday he's not just seeing trump today, but that he'll be spending the weekend at mar-a-lago because they want to be able to hit the ground running with a full plan for january when trump gets back in office. >> so ali, let's talk about the

upper chamber. it is the end of an era for two decades. mitch mcconnell sort of set the course for the republicans there in the senate. he's now stepping away from his leadership position. elections, secret ballots today, three contenders. we know rick scott is getting the blessing of a lot of high-profile maga types, but senator thune and cornyn in the mix as well. how do you handicap this race? >> yeah. it's a tough one to handicap. i think when you talk to senators, there is still a belief although it's a three-person race it is sort of john thune's to lose. thune has been mcconnell's number two over the course of the last several years. mcconnell is one of the most well-known procedural tactics in this senate chamber and served in a leader position for the last 18 years, and so when you talk about the ways republicans are trying to chart a path forward ahead of trump's return to washington this is, perhaps, one of the most significant

microcosms to view that evolution through. mcconnell has been a consistent thorn in trump's side. the two men rarely seeing eye to eye and sparing through the press on multiple occasions. trump, of course, using many colorful monikers for mcconnell over the years and mcconnell typically in the halls tells us he will not answer or entertain questions about the former now president elect. but now they're trying to pick a successor and i think that when you see people like thune and cornyn, they have served in leadership before. they know the senate body well. they have also sparred with trump over the course of the last several years. both men are also aware of the landscape and they've tried to mend those fences. allies would say they've done so successfully specifically thune. you guys will remember, certainly i do, he endorsed senator tim scott earlier this year during the republican primary. he thought, and he told me at the time that scott represented

the way forward as it tritds to get out of the trump era. the primary was a feedback loop right back to trump and we see where that has landed the party now. there is going to be a secret ballot. we don't know who is going to be voting for who. a possibility although i think a rare one that they vote ironically by secret ballot to open it up and make their votes for leader public. we'll see if that what happens. they'll go behind closed doors at 9:30 and see them emerge with a new leader, whoever it is. >> ali vitali, thank you so much for your reporting. two governors in blue states are joining forces in the wake of donald trump's re-election to quote protect the state level institutions of democracy. the new initiative launching today is called governors safeguarding democracy. and aims to provide a playbook for governors across the country seeking to push back against the upcoming administration.

gsd describes one of its key goals like this, quote by supporting state leaders with tools, knowledge and resources to protect and strengthen state democratic institutions, gsd seeks to ensure that american democracy remains vibrant, resilient, and responsive to the needs of its people. joining us now are the co-chairs of gsd, jb pritzker of illinois and democratic governor jared polis of colorado. governor polis is also chair of the national governors association. governor pritzker, start with you, what types of things will gsd be preparing for? >> well, let's start with the idea that there are a number of things that have been brought up during the campaign and now post his election that president trump's administration intends to go after. an example of that is you've heard talk about bringing prayer

back into public schools, as they say. the reality is, that there's a constitutional bar against that. separation of clutch and state. and the question is, what will they be doing to try to enforce that and how on a state level can we uphold the state constitution while the administration may be coming after, you know, this vitally important freedom that people have from having to be forced to -- into some sort of organized prayer in public schools. so, you know, we've got a lot of issues like that. you know, privacy issues around tracking people who may be seeking to exercise their abortion rights, and we witness to make sure apps can't -- we want to make sure apps can't track them or companies can't provide that information to other states or the federal government. >> okay. >> governor polis, isn't the issue of prayer in school, isn't that a court issue that will end up at the u.s. supreme court?

>> well, look, i think what we want to really lean into here is making sure that states are equipped to protect our constitution and protect our democracy. that means the independence of the courts itself, the independence of the institution, the rule of law, election integrity and another great important concern, and really by collaborating, governors can work together whether it's this administration or any administration, there's always going to be issues we disagree and agree on. making sure we play by a rule book it works for our country and people and remains loyal to our constitution. >> governor pritzker, we had reporting earlier this show about the trump's efforts ramping up for their impending mass deportation program -- meaning the construction of new facilities outside major cities, potentially chicago being one of them in your home state. how do you see the role of democratic governors, blue state governors, in terms of the relationship with the federal government if they do carry out these mass deportation plans and

if they rely on state and local officials and law enforcement to do so? >> well, let me start by saying that we want to make sure that, of course, if there are undocumented immigrants who are committing violent crime, we want them off the streets. we want help from the federal government if we need it. but we also want to make sure that there isn't a violation of people's rights with, you know, raids, for example, that are done in coordination with local law enforcement on people who are, frankly, holding down jobs and have been in this country for many, many years. we think that's improper and in illinois that's not something that we would condone. there's been some talk about using other states' national guard, red state national guards to somehow come into a blue state and try to force them, stephen miller inspired rules, and that's just not something we're going to accept. i want to key off of something

that jared said. importantly, we each have ideas, some of which we acted upon over the last six years and some of which are still needing to be acted upon. and each state has a different situation in which they may want to act upon. for example, there are states where you've got a party in control of the governorship, but not in control of the legislature, so that governor may only be able to put in place executive orders. another state like mine where we've got democratic control of the house and the senate and the governorship, we may be able to do much more and will be, and, so i think the idea here is to create a catalog to create dialog amongst the governors about what is possible and if you want to pursue something in your state, it will be different in each state, that's available to you and this organization will support you in doing that. >> so governor polis, i just --

just a -- sort of question, 30,000 feet looking down on this, how do you balance being the loyal opposition and doing what the loyal opposition has always done in american politics, but also recognizing the results of the last election and understanding that you two represent two of the only states between the coasts where republicans didn't sweep to victory by pretty convincing margins? >> well, look, president-elect trump won the election. we're going to work with him and his administration however we can for our state, whether it's the u.s. forest service, managing our public lands, working to make sure that our priorities are met in funding transportation and transit and we look forward to that relationship. at the same time i think it's very important that we double down on defending our small d democratic institutions making sure that elections in the future, decisions of the courts, rule of law, continue across administrations republican and democratic.

so we're always going to have our agreements and disagreements in the moment, but i think it's also important to take a step back and say let's make sure that the america we cherish and love is as strong as ever on our 250th birthday in two years. >> all right. democratic governors -- go ahead. governor pritzker. >> sorry. i wanted to add that, you know, joe mentioned loyal opposition. we are loyal. we are loyal to the constitution. and we are loyal to the people of our states. this isn't about create something massive divide. indeed, this is just about responding to concerns that governors will have about dealing with what seems to be an onslaught from the new administration. >> appreciate that. democratic governors j.b. pritzker of illinois and jared polis of colorado, thank you both very much for being on this morning. we appreciate it. take care. all right. time now for a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning. a federal judge ruled that a new

louisiana law requiring that the ten commandments be displayed in all public classrooms is unconstitutional on its face and ordered education officials not to enforce it. the judge said the law had an overtly religious purpose and rejected the claim that the commandments held historical significance to the foundation of u.s. law. the state's attorney general has vowed to appeal the ruling. air quality levels in new delhi, india, reached hazardous levels with parts of the city reporting pollutant levels more than 50 times higher than recommended safe limits. ranking it as the most polluted major city in the world. despite this, the city's schools remained open, but many restricted outdoor activities. >> look at that. man. and tropicana field will not be ready for play until at least the start of the 2026 baseball season.

that's according to the latest damage assessment report which estimates that hurricane milton caused $39 million in damage to the stadium, home to the tampa bay rays, replacing the roof alone is going to run roughly $24 million. >> which is more than the entire stadium costs. what do you think about the -- they're a little busy, right. >> little busy. >> that's a no. >> no. no. >> too busy. >> retro "morning joe." we had a good drumbeat. you know, five, six, seven years ago. >> i mean, i'm -- yeah. i'm -- >> little bit -- >> connoisseur of this. >> more cowbell? >> no. >> they got a fever and the only cure for it is more cowbell. >> good -- >> low drumbeat. >> that was -- that was a good

first start. >> i can't compete with it. >> noted. >> okay. >> but -- he says noted. >> we'll get a simpler drumbeat. >> i think it's the real t.j. today. >> you don't think that's the ai director. >> i'm real. >> really? that ai director thing, well. >> coming up on "morning joe" -- that's scary -- the latest key inflation report. the consumer price index was released moments ago. we'll break down those new numbers straight ahead. corporate america is rushing to protect itself from president-elect trump's hardline tariff plans. cnbc's andrew ross sorkin joins us with the details on the scramble by u.s. companies. we'll be right back. scramble by u.s. companies we'll be right back. have you compared your medicare plan recently? with ehealth, you can compare medicare plans side by side for free. so we invited people to give ehealth a try and discover how easy it can be to find your medicare match.

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the iconic notre dame cathedral in paris is nearly ready to welcome visitors again five years after it suffered a devastating fire that nearly destroyed the entire building.

nbc news london correspondent kelly cobiella has the latest. >> reporter: this morning our lady of paris one step closer to opening its doors again. and the companion's choir 80 members holding final rehearsals ahead of the big day. said to perform in one of the solemn masses at the week-long festivities to celebrate notre dame's rebirth. these amateur singers are the crafts people and artisans who helped repair the cathedral over the last five years like art restorer felicia. was this project different? >> i don't think in my lifetime i anticipated to work in such total renovation. >> reporter: the blaze back in april 2019 was devastating. flames reduced the beloved old cathedral's ceiling to ash, tearing through its interior and spectacularly toppling the spire, a cherished paris

landmark. craig was here. >> paris, how much this cathedral means. >> reporter: five years on, france is racing towards the cathedral's grand reveal, vast led roof installed, these wooden hangers after the fire, removed, following years of delicate, laborious restorations. last friday, a taste of the much missed notre dame bells sounding across paris for the first time since the inferno silenced them, rescued from the catastrophic fire, now repaired and ready to ring again alongside these special three olympic bells delivered to notre dame last week. rang by american superstar gold medalists at the olympic stadium during the paris summer games. notre dame's meticulous revamp, a well-kept secret, but we were shown a tiny hint last july. underneath the spire, the intricate oak frame. we're at the base of the spire, a thousand pieces of wood carefully put together. >> reporter: the spire's wood

base and oak ceiling complete. more than a century of soot cleaned from these murals and stainglassed windows. they're stunning, so bright. the restoration effort now in its final stages. a sacred space, reborn, getting ready to receive the world again. >> oh, wow. i can't wait. nbc's kelly cobiella with that report. >> that's such amazing news. i don't know. it's interesting. you always know what an important part of paris notre dame is and also -- but i've got to say, when we saw it going up in flames, we were afraid we were going to lose it, it's the first time -- i mean you sit back and realize that's really kind of the center of western -- of western civilization. >> yeah. >> it is -- it is so important for everyone, so this is such -- such remarkable news. >> five years. >> happy news. >> now to the latest inflation data released moments ago.

the consumer price index increased 0.2% in october in line with economists expectations. that ticked the annual inflation rate up 2.6%. >> let's bring in co-anchor of squawk box columnist andrew ross sorkin. is that good news, bad news, or just about goldilocks right? >> i think that's about goldilocks right in terms of where the expectation was in terms of how the markets reacted to it. the expectation now is that jay powell come december will be raising interest rates once again, and that's where we're going to be. so -- actually lowering interest rates. i apologize. >> i was going to say, whoa! >> yeah. hello. hello. >> that escalated quickly. >> good morning. good morning. nonetheless, i think that that is what -- is what was, you know, on the table. the interesting part on the inflation side was the tick up in shelter. the cost of housing is continuing to go up.

i think that might have surprised people a little bit. otherwise, i would say this was all in the cards in advance. >> so andrew, let's talk about a couple big issues for president trump that he campaigned on. you're talking about tariffs, obviously, today and how businesses are going to try to react to those tariffs. we also can talk about the mass deportation. if you read "the wall street journal" editorial page, watch cnbc, talk to business leaders, they will say that both of those things are inflationary. like, for instance -- >> absolutely. >> obviously, not deporting like criminals, but i'm saying, if there's like this mass deportation that goes beyond what even businesses expecting, that increases inflation, according to the wall street journal, according to everybody you hear on cnbc, et cetera. same with tariffs. here's my question on both of those issues -- does the street think that donald trump is

more -- more prone to listen to the hardliners that are inside saying more, more tariffs, more mass deportations? or will wall street, will his supporters from wall street, the business leaders, have more of a moderating impact on him going, man, this is going to be inflationary and we're going to be right back to where we came from? >> joe, it's a fabulous question, and the answer goes back to something we talked about before which is that investors in wall street are professional optimists, so their optimism they're going to have more influence over president-elect trump than, perhaps, some of the hardliners ultimately will. and, you know, if you talk to ceos in america today, a lot of them are grinning ear to ear, but there's a number of them also clinching their teeth. any of the big companies in america today that have business in china, they're clinching their teeth, getting on the phone with lobbyists in washington trying to figure out, you know, can we push these tariffs back? what can we do? others are talking to supply

chain folks, how quickly can we move product and some of our work and manufacturing out of china? where can we go? how quickly can we do that? what's that going to mean? there is a race going on. by the way, similarly, even in the housing construction business, you look, 13% of that business in the construction business is, dare i say, illegal immigrants working in that business. people working in the restaurant business who are often times worried about, you know, whether they have people that necessarily -- shouldn't necessarily be there and do they get removed and what does that do to pricing? there is this very interesting mixed picture here. interestingly, the wall street guys are super happy because what do they say is going to happen? there's going to be less regulation, which means more mergers, which means more fees to wall street. there's going to be more trading. there's going to be more all of it. >> sort of depends on where you are. obviously, for tax cuts, for regulatory relief, for more mergers without -- without the

federal government getting in the way, they will like that. like you said, people that are going to be impacted by tariffs concerned. right now we're looking right now at president trump's plane. he's landed in washington, d.c. it is 9:30 a.m. joint base andrews. this is first time he has been there since he left january the 20th of 2021. going to the white house there. elon musk also with the president. he's going to be going with the president. we're hearing reports that he's going to be with the president when he talks with the republican conference on capitol hill. that will be fascinating. let's talk about elon musk. obviously, playing a pivotal role. i was on a call yesterday with a college class who asked the question, what is donald trump's ai policy going to be? i said, why don't we ask elon musk. he's going to have such an oversized impact. i don't know that i've seen

anything quite like this, especially during a transition where you have the president being shadowed almost exclusively by a business leader, in this case one of the richest men in the world, if not the richest men in the world. >> you're absolutely right. and personnel is policy. with elon musk right next to donald trump over the past week and we imagine over the next several weeks as this personnel is being put into place in his cabinet and some of these other important positions, clearly elon musk is going to have a huge and almost outsized influence on what that ultimately looks like. you know, yesterday, of course, they announced this new efficiency group between elon musk and vivek ramaswamy working together. that is more of a blue ribbon commission, if you will, and the question is how much influence that can have because so much of whatever they recommend is going to be recommended.

some of that can be done through executive action and the like, but a lot of that may ultimately have to go to congress and how influential will they be with congress and how expansive will their plans really look? we went through this back in 2011 with simpson-bowles, where there was an evident to really bring both sides together to try to do some really revolutionary things to the government, and what we realized it was unable to be done because for everything -- for everything that looks like it is pork, it is somebody's pork and they want to keep that pork. >> right. >> and so how that -- how that ultimately gets fought out is going to be fascinating. >> and yet there were substantial spending cuts through those years. i say substantial. i mean, at least a lessening of increases. that's what washington calls spending cut when you slow down the rate of increase. over those three or four years even without simpson-bowles you

did have that happening. we'll see what happens here. much easier to say this is how things should be. finding, you know, a billion or two in waste here and there. but then having to get it through congress, where like you've said, this is -- this pork is actually an influential senator or member of congress' impacts their district, that's a real concern. the other thing, to jonathan -- >> go ahead quickly. i want jonathan lemire to jump in and talk about donald trump. >> i was just going to make one mention to me is fascinating, some people thought that elon musk would have a formal role in the white house. and in this way, obviously, he's able to stay with his private businesses and have this very meaningful year of the president. i think that's going to raise all sorts of other questions about, you know, whether some of the suggestions he's going to be making are going to benefit him and his companies. we've talked about the stock now, tesla, that is, up, you know, 30, 40%.

he is going to be to some degree in charge -- i don't know if he will be in charge of it, who runs nhtsa, for example, which is the agency that is going to oversee whether there's going to be autonomous vehicles on the road in the future. so i think there's a lot of pieces of this puzzle we're going to be watching very carefully. >> and, obviously, the administration will, i'm sure, be aware democrats will be watching in the house and senate and any moves that jonathan lemire, are too obvious will, obviously, bring not only a lot of criticism, but also possible potential fodder because, again, there's always a midterm election two years away and we saw what happened in 2018. that's, obviously, something that donald trump will want to -- not want to repeat in 2026. talk about this moment. donald trump getting off of his plane and going to be coming down in washington back to the

white house for the first time since january 20th, 2021. >> yeah. since he left that day choosing no the to attend joe biden's inauguration. his exit coming two weeks after the insurrection he inspired at the u.s. capitol and now he returns as president-elect. he, of course, has been to d.c. a number of times over the campaign for various events, but this is the first time he will have been at joint base andrews since leaving office. this is the air force base outside washington that is home to air force one. and we in a moment or two will likely see him come out of the door there at the front of the plane and head down the steps to i would assume his waiting motorcade to then head to the hill first we believe and then on to the white house. we'll keep an eye if we spot elon musk as well. this is a significant moment for donald trump. the beginning of a victory lap, if you will. unthinkable, his reputation, his presidency in tatters when he

left. few would have predicted this comeback. there we see him now stepping out of the front of his plane, at joint base andrews, heading down the steps. this will be a moment where when he meets in the oval office with president biden, we should expect two men to make small talk for the cameras, unclear if they will take questions from the press. they will then meet privately, perhaps president biden will offer advice that's normally what incumbent presidents do to their successors. nothing normal about the situation at all. the visceral dislike between the two men who, of course, have been attack each other for years from the campaign trail and beyond, but now, president biden deciding to revive a tradition that donald trump did not offer him, which is to host his successor at the white house and, joe, certainly for biden -- as [ inaudible ] personally disappointed in -- i would argue

disgusted as he is at the thought of donald trump being president again, he knows the country does need to see a sign, a symbol, an image of a peaceful transfer of power, hence the oval office meeting in a couple hours. >> yeah. >> this is, except for four years, this is what happens. and again, very -- very few incoming presidents are liked by the incumbent president who is leaving who thinks they did a better job. i spoke earlier this morning about harry truman being insulted by ike sitting there and looking bored while he was giving him advice and then jfk, him lecturing jfk. it's going to be fascinating. andrew ross sorkin, your thoughts? >> you know, i think you need this moment in a way. i know there's some folks who are going to be frustrated by it. >> good point. it's one of those moments where you want to be, you know, you want to see the country come together no matter what side of

the aisle you're on in these circumstances. it's something i think most americans wished had happened the first time around. i don't think there's much more to say other than that. >> okay. very good. >> coming up. thank you, andrew ross sorkin. a look at the stories making front page headlines across the country including an effort in one state to eliminate a ballot casting option for voters. that's straight ahead on "morning joe." ."

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♪♪ 42 past the hour. welcome back. time now for a look at the morning papers. the "akron beacon journal" reports two ohio republican state senators want to eliminate ballot drop boxes in what they say is an effort to ensure election integrity. they prosed the changes in a bill introduced last week. >> they also want to blindfold all voters to make sure it's a little bit harder for them to find a voting booth. they say it will add fun,

excitement to the process. maybe they didn't say that. >> require people to submit proof of citizenship when they register to vote. in maryland "the baltimore sun" has a future on two pharmaceutical companies being found responsible for fuelinging the city's opioid epidemic. yesterday a jury ruled the companies sent painkillers into the city depriving residents of their right to public safety. now the companies must pay the city $270 million in damages. in georgia, the "atlanta journal constitution" leads with a man accused of selling over a million dollars worth of fake tickets. >> that's what's happened. >> police say the 42-year-old swindelled at least 30 people across the state who believed they were purchasing real tickets to concerts. >> five taylor swift tickets didn't work. got me. >> university of football games

and the masters tournament. that's horrible. >> that explains. >> that's horrible. people get ripped off. >> rough time in georgia trying to get to some of these events. one year. and the "boston globe" has a feature on global warming's affect on seaweed forests along the coast of maine. scientists say rising water temperatures around the southern coast have caused kelp forests to disappear. the plants are vital for feeding marine life, including, this is important, maine's lobster population. it's a big part of the economy. >> and i'll tell you, if you talk to lobstermen, talk to fishermen up there about what's happening to the lobsters, what's happening -- >> they're aware of climate change. >> they are aware of climb change. somebody said most of them are very conservative. >> yeah. >> most of them probably vote for donald trump. and most of them will tell you in a second, there's climate change because it's impacting

them every single day. >> 100%. all right. coming up, we're going to take a look at the season two of the dark comedy "bad sisters" which follows the lives of the close-knit sisters after the, quote, accidental death of one of their husbands. the cast -- >> come on. >> oh, my god. >> come on. how lucky are we. >> come on, mika. >> these are like the best actresses in the world. the cast will join us live with what to expect. >> the universe, the galaxy. >> they're super scaring and alluring at the same time. "morning joe" will be right back. same time. "morning joe" will be right back 50 years and older. shingrix doesn't protect everyone and isn't for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients or to a previous dose. tell your healthcare provider if you're pregnant or breastfeeding. increased risk of guillain-barré syndrome was observed after getting shingrix. fainting can happen so take precautions. most common side effects are pain, redness, and swelling where injected, muscle pain, tiredness, headache, shivering, fever, and upset stomach.

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dude? dog food in the fridge? it's not dog food. it's freshpet. real meat. real veggies. real weird. he was bad luck anyway. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ holiday memories made by alexis brought to you by etsy.

i know what you did. ♪♪ . >> you found a dead body in a suitcase. >> we would like to ask you a few more questions.

♪♪ . >> is this blood? there's something much bigger at play here. >> wait, you haven't heard from ian in two days. >> i think grace is in trouble. >> i kept a big secret for you. >> this is going to land us all in jail. >> let's get one step ahead. >> this is bad, bad, bad. >> we are not safe. >> i'm starting to have thoughts i don't want to have about my own sister. >> thinking of going to the police. >> somebody is dead. >> what did you do? >> you just got blood on your hands. >> the cops have the right person. >> we are the right person. >> bad, bad, bad. i need my "bad sisters." that was a look at the second season of the hit apple tv plus series entitled "bad sisters." the show picks up two years after the death of j.p., the abusive husband of one of the

five garvey sisters. chased by a personal foes and law enforcement officials alike the sisters must once again fight for their freedom all while keeping their family together. and joining us four of the garvey sisters and costars of the show, sharon horgan, who is also an executive producer and writer, eva birthistle, eve hewson and sarah greene. it's great to have you all. as you can tell i'm obsessed, we're both obsessed with "bad sisters." i could not need this more right now. sharon, i'll start with you, this was -- wasn't this supposed to only be like one series? how did this happen where it continued. and i guess how could i get so lucky? >> there was only supposed to be one season because it's based on a belgian series. just one season of that. but then, i don't know, i thought, well, there's such a great response to the show and

we thought that what happens after he dies and how the sisters cope with it and how grace deals with the guilt of, you know, offing her awful, awful husband was more interesting, you know. >> yeah. exactly. >> fascinating, actually. >> eve, mika, and i -- we had a very soapy summer this summer watching you in "the perfect couple". >> oh, yeah. so good. you were so good. >> so fun. >> i'm curious -- thank you. thank you so much. so, so what was it like getting the call and saying, are you going to get a chance to do this again. the first time -- this was supposed to be a one off. so remarkably well, but how excited were you to be able to do this again? >> so excited. i think i screamed when i woke up in the morning and saw the e-mail. but we were already -- we fell

in love with each other and we all were hoping maybe we get a season two and i don't think they told us until the season finale aired, so it was a while of waiting and then we're all very happy. >> so let's go one step further then. the excitement to have this series come back, but also an expectation because now it's lived out in the world for a year, people love the show, obsessed with the show. what is the pressure or responsibility -- >> no, it's not all on me! >> to keep delivering? >> i mean there is pressure i suppose. but i think it's -- it's taken the excitement and desire for it as you say, so well received, but i think the appetite for it is so great i think that takes over the pressure. i mean, there is a different pressure. >> of course. you have to come up with the goods, so to speak. >> everyone is so lovely about it. you don't want to let your audience down. but also i don't want to let the characters down.

more pressure of you guys reading it actually than putting it out there, you know. i think. >> and -- and sarah, you've talked about being able to come back with your on air sisters, also being with an almost all female cast, not having to deal with dudes, with bros, guys. that's awful! i hate it. it must -- it must feel great to be back into this sisterhood where you don't have to worry. >> like it's a really safe, supportive environment to work in. and like we really do love each other and champion each other and it's -- yeah, it's a real joy to come to work every day. >> people notice your shoes. you know. >>. >> yes. >> you know it's the important things.

it's the little things. >> yes. >> let's take a look at a clip where the garvey sisters encounter their nemesis this season, angelica. >> she looks awful. >> played by fiona shaw. >> she's a queen. >> who is going to be next. >> we've got something to celebrate. >> oh. >> hope springs eternal. >> so aggressive. >> sharon, no spoilers but tell us about this character and the new dynamic is part of the series. >> i love her so much. she's a terrible, terrible awful

woman, but i love her. she's -- she got very close to grace. she finds out her secret. she finds out what she did and she kind of uses it to get closer to grace to get closer to the sisters but, yeah, she's a worthy foe. it's been an absolute joy working with her. she's the funniest, the liveliest and she's an honoree sister. she calls herself the heroine. >> i love it. >> i like her. >> so eva, i would love to ask you, i mean i would love to ask all of you this but we have only so much time. the concept of having a cast of female leads, it seems to me from watching it, on a really serious note, it's the opportunities to explore the

humanity of being a woman, of all aspects of being a woman, and sort of equalizes us with men to an extent because sometimes you only see one or two sides of a woman when you have a female lead. when you have a large cast of female leads, isn't that a different experience? >> it is. and it's a joyful one. i think it's, you know, because like you say, we haven't been used to that for a very long time. when you see material like that as an actor and you read it, you're full of excitement. thank god we're being written about. i think when it goes out then, people see the show, the response is what it is because people want and need to see real women. with all their flaws and complexities and unfortunately you don't see it that often, but the response has been what it is. like there we are. we're being represented. that's -- that's essential. >> eve, same question to you. what does it mean in this moment to have a cast and strong female

characters. >> i'm about to burn my bra. >> well on that -- >> why don't we -- why don't we just end it right there. a way to end it. the first two episodes of the second season of "bad sisters" are streaming now on apple tv plus. we are -- we are so excited. even if the interview went off the rails at the end. come on. >> she's wearing one. i'm happy to know that. thank you all so much. sharon horgan, eve hewson and sarah greene. come back, please. >> we will. >> "bad sisters." that does it for us this morning. anna cabrera picks up the coverage in 90 seconds. abrera p coverage in 90 seconds this is pretty amazing. i can go on a vacation with this money. i have quite a few prescriptions. that's why people call us. we're going to compare plans, and i'm gonna try to get you as much bang for your buck as possible. that's great. this one here covers all your prescriptions,

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