him, senator reed said, well, we should wait to hear from the nominees they should have before passing judgment on their performance. the nominee should have the ability to speak for themselves. that's what senators believe. these are not regular times. senate democrats ready to operate in this new political world order in washington, d.c. the comments from senator reed lead me to believe not yet. >> steve bannon said president trump will hit the justice department with a blowtorch and matt gaetz is that torch. it's a great day to tune into "deadline: white house," which starts right now. ow hi, everyone. washington, d.c., today bracing

for the return of donald trump to the presidency. within the last hour, trump making clear just what kind of presidency he had in mind automatic along by naming congressman matt gaetz as his choice to be the country's attorney general. trump making that news a social media post by saying that gaetz will, quote, end weaponized government, which is, in and of itself, delusion of the far right. it is yet another sign that donald trump is rewarding loyalty this time above everything else as he builds a new cabinet. since gaetz was all in on donald trump's attempts to overturn the 2020 election, in fact, he was so concerned about his criminal exposure that he asked donald trump for a pardon in the last days of trump's first presidency. gaetz was also under investigation for sex trafficking as recently as 2023. he will now lead the department that once investigated him should he be confirmed. that breaking news is where we start today with former top prosecutor at the department of

justice andrew weissmann, and former democratic senator and msnbc political analyst claire mccaskill. so, andrew weissmann, this to me, while shocking and galling, is the least surprising thing trump has done since he won. i think since he won tuesday night, yesterday he put marco rubio atop the state department and people at this table said this won't be so bad. on man, he made the announcement that he returned to recess appointments. it's obvious this trio of fox news anchors matt gaetz, whose biggest war in washington is with kevin mccarthy and tulsi gabbard was with the recess appointment was all about. >> yeah, i sort of had two reactions to this announcement. one is very similar to yours, which is we have in the president-elect somebody who is

clearly not tethered to facts or law. with respect to facts, you know, we know he has said repeatedly that there was a fraud in the election and he won it, and we know that is not true and he lost all of the cases but one, and that one was on some technical issue. so he is adhering to a world where facts and law don't matter. sop we shouldn't be surprised he has selected to nominate, yet to be confirmed, somebody for the attorney general and somebody for the department of national intelligence that are not just unqualified, but have shown that they are untethered to the facts and maybe also the law. so that shouldn't be surprising. and in the other is really this idea that somehow matt gaetz is going to the person who prevents and stops weaponization when he

is the hibit a to weaponization. we are in pure george orwell 1984 land where, you know, they say black is white and we're supposed to believe it. >> claire, the rub is that people like matt gaetz are, well, let me show you. they are laughing stocks on the right. let me show you what -- claire -- we are working on this. let me share some of the things that folks on the right have said about him. white house counsel for donald trump, i think the country got to know him in the january 6th select committee hearings, confirmed on the record in his deposition when asked, was representative gaetz requesting a pardon? i believe so. the general tone was we may get prosecuted because we were defensive of the president's positions on things. question, how do you know that congressman gaetz asked for a pardon? he told me. tell she b that.

he told me he asked meadows for a pattern. gaetz was pushing for a pardon and doing so since early december. asked by adam kinzinger. the reason i know to ask for a marred is because you think you committed a crime. claire, this is the kind of person you also install if your plan is what you talked about on the campaign trail and what you insisted even in friendly interviews wasn't your plan, a and that's retribution. >> yeah. there is a couple of things about this. first, i have to think that there are more than four votes that would not show up for matt gaetz in the republican caucus. i did did a rundown on the republican senators and came up with 11 names that i think would likely oppose a matt gaetz. now, you know, half or more of those could disappoint america and vote for someone who is so

wholly unqualified for this job. in so many ways. is donald trump nominating him top get tulsi gabbard through or maybe this fox news contributor? you know, we have gone from only hiring the best people to only hiring people that are completely unqualified for jobs that they are being nominated for. the fox news guy, he has never run anything. and this is a huge enterprise, the department of defense. matt gaetz has no experience that would lend itself towards running the department of justice. everything that's involved there. and people think the department of justice is just about, you know, who is getting prosecuted that we're talking about on national news. we're talking about a huge swath of criminals in this country and running a department with integrity, going after bad guys that are breaking the law

whether it's drugs or bank robberies or other serious crimes, criminal enterprises that are complex and difficult. i mean, andrew can tell you all this. it is shocking. i mean, i guess i shouldn't be shocked, but it sure is nervy for somebody who has his own ethical problems to be nominated for a job that has had really some stellar men and women running that department in my lifetime and, frankly, in the history of this country. >> i want to make sure that we don't sort of follow the shiny object of the matt gaetz-ville. i would like to ask you, andrew, to take the fox weekend host, pete hegseth, tulsi gabbard, and matt gaetz as a piece and just articulate for me what the

director of national intelligence, the department of defense, and the u.s. department of justice do on, say, a september 11th-like traj for the nation. what are the roles of those three agencies? >> that's funny. that's where i was going. because post-9/11, what you do in the intelligence community at the department of defense, at the cia, at the department of justice, at the fbi is you do all. things within the fbi and the department that claire talked about, sort of domestic criminal law enforcement. online, those can be incredibly important, could involve murder and rape and child pornography and the kinds of crimes that everyone listening would find horrendous and would have to be prevented and prosecuted. post-9/11, this is a very dangerous and serious world.

it is absolutely imperative that those agencies are operated by experienced adults. people who know what they are doing, who can make this country safe. part of that is knowing the intelligence community, understanding triage, what are real threats, what are not so real threats, and also being able to build really important relationships with countries around the world. those who are sort of publicly friendly to us and those who are willing to be friendly and provide information but in a quiet way. so having those diplomatic skills is incredibly important in order to make this country safe, just to be clear. it's about the safety of americans and other people living in this country. having people who are not qualified, are not serious is

something that endangers this country. i have to say my sort of first reaction to these nominations is that they must be sort of like test balloons because it's so unimaginable that that is what you would do for a topic that is so serious, and i truly hope that claire is right, that we're going to see that sort of adult supervision come from the senate in an area that is so important to all of our safety. >> well, and i guess, you know, the only thing that i would say before everyone loses their collective minds here over the lack of seriousness is that donald trump wasn't elected to put tulsi gabbard in charge of national security or matt gaetz in charge of the department of justice or the fox weekend guy, what is his name? pete hegseth. can i get a spelling? so donald trump was elected to

do one thing. keep americans safe. that's what his voters tell you. that means economically secure and safe from -- let me quote trump, criminal gangs. who deals with criminal gas tanks? might it be anyone at doj? who deals with iran, a country that donald trump says is running all over the usa. might it be d.o.d. or the intelligence community? donald trump can't leave unserious people in charge of the things that are the very reason his base of supporters turned out and voted for him. so just again putting sort of the shocking lack of qualifications, tulsasy, matt and pete hegseth have between the three of them, talk about the political liabilities of putting such novices in charge of things that are so central to whether or not donald trump succeeds or fails. >> yeah, it's interesting to me because i'm wondering what marco rubio is saying about this.

marco rubio already had a very important democrat, the former chairman of the intelligence committee, mark warner, steeped in all matters of national intelligence and international relations come out and say that marco rubio was a good choice. marco rubio will fly through the senate and will probably get some democratic votes. you have to wonder what the military people who understand what d and i is think about tulsi gabbard. this is an unserious person. this is a person who flaunts conspiracy theories, made up something about biolabs being put by the united states in ukraine and who changed parties in a way that really showed she was more interested about getting attention than she was serious policy issues. so, i am -- by the way, the appointment thing, are we really at the point that this supreme

court would say that the attorney general of the united states can be put in place without advice and consent. senate under the united states constitution? have we gotten to that point? because that's what we are talking about. and i think that there will be some real head-scratching going on among a whole lot of folks, both in the united states senate and across the street in the supreme court, about how donald trump thinks he can bypass advice and consent with people who are wholly unqualified. this pete hegseth, i guess that's how you say his name, i saw stuff online today he was hawking ak-47 ammunition on the fourth of july. getting people to buy ak-47 ammunition. and this is such a big job in terms of his supervision over all matters in the department of defense.

you know, they may all be going, great, he is going to clean out all the woke people in the military. well, i got news for everybody. our military is not woke. our military is professional and trained and non-political. and i think the leadership at the department of defense and the leadership at the pentagon is horrified at this moment. >> it may say something about our algorithms, claire. i saw a picture of him in barely there underwear when i googled him in a 9/11 memorial. "new york times" investigative reporter mike schmidt did a rather in-depth body of reporting on donald trump's efforts to weaponize the department of justice against this perceived enemies in the first term and how under the radar the success of that effort really was when it came to ensnaring people like jim comey and hillary clinton, andy mccabe and others and tens of thousands us of dollars in legal fees,

even if it doesn't result in successful prosecutions. mike, your first reaction to matt gaetz as the country's attorney general? >> i mean, i can't help but look at it through the lens of our reporting on gaetz. in may of 2021, just, you know, a couple of months after january 6th, we reported that gaetz was under investigation by the justice department for, whether he had this sexual relationship with a 17-year-old girl. and paid for her to travel. and this was ultimately an extensive investigation that looked at whether gaetz had violated a law that would have had a mandatory minimum of a ten-year prison sentence. and so if he had been charged with this crime, sex trafficking a minor, and convicted, there would be no wiggle room on the sentence. he would have gone away for ten years. and it was a pretty serious

investigation. it focused and was the chief witness against him was a guy named joe greeneberg, who was a former local tax collector in florida, who said he had participated with gaetz in these activities with this 17-year-old girl, and there was extensive evidence that greenberg and his lawyer had provided to the government about gaetz's involvement with the girl, and there was a big question out there. was gaetz going to get indicted. and this really hung over gaetz. and ultimately the justice department declined to charge gaetz, and some of the -- the department never gave a reason for that. the department usually doesn't when they decide not to charge someone, but allowed gaetz to mutt out a statement which he said he had not been charged. some of the question about whether he wasn't charge, was it because the girl was basically 17 and 3/4 and close to 18, was

that the reason why they had not brought the charge, she was so close to the age of 18, because had he been charged with it and had he been convicted, it would have been a ten-year mandatory minimum sentence. that's as serious as it comes at the federal level. >> mike, the republican establishment seems to -- not even the establishment. the maga republicans don't have any affection or affinity for matt gaetz. trey gowdy said, quote, i can't tell you the psychiatric diagnosis for matt gaetz. i can just tell you he is dangerous for the republican party. another fox news anchor said, quote, i would compare him to that toddler that we've all seen at the family barbecue eating toilet paper, shoving cheerios up his -- you know what, let me let it do its own justice. >> i can't tell you the

psychiatric diagnosis. i could just tell you he is dangerous for the republican party. >> put your country ahead of your own personal hatred. get control of it, brother. but he won't. >> i would compare him to that toddler that we've all seen at the family barbecue. eating toilet paper, and shoving cheerios up his nose to get attention. >> so, mike schmidt, my question, trump, who is so informed by fox news, he named as secretary of defense a gentleman named pete hegseth, who is the weekend anchor of that network's morning show, has chosen someone who doesn't have fans on fox news. what is the tie that binds -- i mean, is it another person who knows what it's like to be under investigation by the department itself? is that the tie between trump and gaetz? >> the other thing about gaetz in this line was that there were a lot of different people at different points that took the

baton for trump and push back on the russia investigation or anything that the department was doing related to michael cohen or the investigations that could touch trump. and gaetz was one of trump's most blindly loyal defenders. he would go out at these hearings, these house hearings, and do whatever he needed to do to defend trump in the face of this and go after the department and criticize the department and throw different things at the wall to try to undermine the russia investigation and such. trump even referenced this in his statement that announces gaetz's nomination to be attorney general. he said gaetz was really important in unraveling the russia hoax. and the thing about gaetz is that there has been some turnover in the house amongst republicans, but gaetz is someone that's been there throughout it and has been loyal to trump throughout too.

and when it came time for stuff around january 6th, gaetz was there for trump. and he has been there in the months afterwards here. and, you know, i don't know as well as the congressional reporters all the ins and outs of it, but gaetz playing a central role in ousting kevin mccarthy in the house. you know, something that a lot of people thought he was on trump's behest. so this is someone who has been by trump's side all the way back to the beginning of the russia days, the up russia investigation days, and really built his brand around that of embracing trump and trying to protect trump's blindside, so much so that, you know, he thought that he could get a pardon. in the end, you know, pushing the white house in the final weeks of the administration.

>> andrew weissmann, what is your sense of what is happening with this trio of appointments with matt gaetz coming to head the department of justice, if he is confirmed or appointed, tulsi gabbard, overseeing the nation's intelligence agencies, and pete hegseth heading over to the pentagon? what is your sense of the kinds of conversations and thinking, especially among national security folks who don't actually bring or charge or try cases at all? >> yeah. i think there is sort of two things. one, with respect to the intelligence community, where there generally is not the kind of turnover where you are saying, oh, you will see people leaving as you might see at the department of justice, i think there probably is a real sense of trying to work very close ties that the intelligence

community agencies have with various people on the hill as claire would know. and to talk about the dangers here, in many ways, you know, when you saw mike johnson's support, the effort in ukraine, i think that was a result of a lot of serious adult conversations. i think it's why, as claire said, you see support for marco rubio. the idea that serious people, even with policy differences that are very drastic, can talk to each other about why this is just not in america's interest. it's not in the public interest. as you note, nicolle, it may not be in donald trump's own political interest to have this. so i think there probably is a lot of discussion about sort of having those conversations about why this -- these -- this trio is just not right. it is also very difficult when you have people like that coming

in for them to be able to work in those environments where those people are steeped in what they know what they are doing. they have very set ways, but i think that's sort of one conversation. within the department, i think there are probably two types of conversations. one is, you know, if this really were to come to pass that people are probably thinking about leaving and there are probably other people think it's more important to stay in order to make sure that facts are facts and the law is complied with, and that these kinds of people make it even more important for people who believe in the rule of law to stay in their positions. not to fight on the policy issues. those are the -- the electionss have consequences, but make sure facts and law still matter. >> again, andrew, just talk about what kind of person -- i mean, the person that runs the department isn't the a.g.

it's the principal deputy. a job that lisa monaco has. what kind of person would go in and be principal deputy to matt gaetz and make all of the sort of offices all across the country, all the u.s. attorney's offices, placing that actually prosecute the kinds of criminals, donald trump -- the people who hold those people account and send them to jail, they are federal crimes, the u.s. attorneys around the country what kinds of person would run the department for matt gaetz? >> well, to me it would have to be somebody whose equally sort of, you know, untethered to the law because that would just be an incredibly difficult position. the deputy attorney general is, as you -- sort of the chief operating officer and deals with a lot of the day to day. but i cannot stress enough there that even with that the attorney

general sets policy. the way in which he or her -- he or she conducts herself or himself really sets a tone for what is expected within the decht. they set policies that everyone adheres to and that the deputy attorney general, the number two, establishes and sort of does in the department. so it is very hard to get -- it would be very hard to get a serious deputy attorney general in there. in this situation, you would clearly need somebody who was a former prosecutor and ideally with intelligence community expertise. that's why lisa monaco was so extraordinary because she has such a breadth of knowledge on the criminal and national security side. but it's hard to see how this administration is going to attract somebody like that if you are going to nominate somebody like matt gaetz and what that signals in terms of, i

would say, the way in which the white house is going to view the department, which is just a political tool of the white house. >> which is to nod to mike's reporting, exactly what donald trump said he wanted. andrew weissmann, mike schmidt thank you for starting us off. claire sticks sticks around. more on this breaking news. the firehose of appointments coming from president-elect trump. we will talk with a member of the house who has seen matt gaetz up close and personal. plus, more on pete hegseth. the weekend fox news host collector selected for a supremely important position for our country and our allies. we will bring you those stories and more when "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. a quick break. don't go anywhere. ga can be unpredictable—and progress rapidly—leading to irreversible vision loss. now there's something you can do to... ♪ ( slow. it. down.) ♪ ♪ ( get it goin' slower.)♪ ask your doctor about izervay.

♪ (i. zer. vay.) ♪ ♪ ( gets ga goin' slower.) ♪ izervay is an eye injection. don't take it if you have an infection or active swelling in or around your eye. izervay can cause eye infection, retinal detachment, or increased risk of wet amd. izervay may temporarily increase eye pressure. do not drive or use machinery until vision has recovered after an eye injection or exam. izervay is proven to slow ga progression, which may help preserve vision longer. ♪ ( i. zer. vay.) ♪ ♪ (gets ga goin' slower.) ♪ so shift gears and get going. don't delay. ask your doctor about izervay. on chewy, save up to 40% on holiday gifts for your pet.

like their favorite treats, toys and food. the best presents. at the best prices. for the best pets. for low prices for holidays with pets, there's chewy. it's our son, he is always up in our business. it's the verizon 5g home internet i got us. oh... he used to be a competitive gamer but with the higher lag, he can't keep up with his squad. so now we're his “squad”. what are kevin's plans for the fall? he's going to college. out of state, yeah. -yeah in the fall. change of plans, i've decided to stay local. oh excellent! oh that's great! why would i ever leave this? -aw! we will do anything to get him gaming again. you and kevin need to fix this internet situation. heard my name! i swear to god, kevin! -we told you to wait in the car. everyone in my old squad has xfinity. less lag, better gaming! i'm gonna need to charge you for three people.

—no peeking. —okay. okay. ♪♪ open. ♪♪ ♪♪ over 600,000 usps employees working in sync to ensure everything sent on its holiday ride ends with a moment of joy. ♪♪ the united states postal service.

and represent testify gaetz was requesting a pardon? >> i believe so. >> the general tone was we may get prosecuted because we were defensive of, you know, the president's positions on these things. >> how do you know that congressman gaetz asked for a pardon? >> he told me. >> tell us about that. >> he told me he'd asked meadows for a pardon. >> mr. gaetz was pushing for a pardon. he was doing so since early december. >> turning our coverage, msnbc political analyst tim million ser here, former rnc spoke man, most of the bulwark podcast, and state attorney for palm beach county, florida, dave aronberg is here. dave, we have been talking to "new york times" reporter mike

schmidt about the investigation that went on for a few years into sex trafficking allegations and the decision by doj not to ultimately charge matt gaetz. but that his former acquaintance, mr. greenberg, is currently in prison, and had offered some pretty, i guess in another time what would be disqualifying testimony or associations about the man who if confirmed will be america's next attorney general. your thoughts? >> it is a sign of the times that we'retali talking about matt gaetz being confirmed for attorney general. it's shocking because he was very close to being indicted by the department of justice. i think the reason why he wasn't, the two key witnesses against him, joel greenberg and the then-underage girl both had credibility problems. joel greenberg a walking criminal enterprise. he lied his previous political

opponent being a pedophile. so the government wasn't relying on him. the victim lied about her age and went on a sugar daddy website and now does adult film. i am not castigating someone for their choice of employment, but it doesn't have anywhere appeal. so the justice department subpoenaed matt gaetz's former girlfriend, worked for the federal government and she was given immunity to testify before the grand jury and apparently she only gave him up on the witness tampering issue. and unless you have an underlying crime against a sitting congressman, the doj was not going to prosecute matt gaetz for tampering with a witness. so they let it go. now, the house at this committee is continuing to subpoena documents and even was going to subpoena matt gaetz himself in an attempt to possibly throw him out of congress like george santos. kevin mccarthy was behind this.

now who knows what's began happen? because gaetz has so many enemies, powerful enemies, there is a chance that enough republicans in the senate could block the nomination. >> tim miller, i actually exhaled when i saw this news for the first time in seven days because i felt like i was smoking crack people were like it won't be that bad. mark is totally normal. i was like, you it sthi? now we're back to donald trump with a 43 to 46% approval rating, a ceiling that wasn't visible last tuesday, and the reason he was as unpopular for his entire presidency is because he surrounded himself with people that didn't inspire confidence that the central missions of a promise trump presidency, fighting crime, some coherent and tough policy on immigration, and keeping america safe from whomever he describes as our enemies, i know it doesn't include russia, his own list includes iran as he is a target for their malevolent

actions, these are not the people to do anything competent. your reaction? >> our reactions, last night i felt that way with the hegseth nomination. like, okay. we don't have to live in this stupid world where people pretend donald trump will nominate serious people. >> i should have called you because -- jeremy bash was on the show. the senate is going to hold the line -- and donny deutsch sat here. looks good. what? we are in year nine. you could say those things in year one. year nine, he always caves to his weakest most insecure insinks. >> indeed. and they are-the republican party does, right? so, you know, i don't have a crystal ball for, you know, which rare moments will, like, see the tiny spine of a handful of republican senators the next

four years. but you are not going to go bankrupt showing any spine against donald trump in the coming years. certainly don't think they will stand up to his cabinet appointments. who knows? maybe one of them. it's hard to -- i think what exactly would be the rationalization for not appointing somebody like matt gaetz or pete hegseth after they supported a felon for president? it's like, well, matt gaetz had some allegations against him. you supported a felon for president who was indicted in four different j6s. pete hegseth is unserious. you supported a reality tv host who was a scam artist who a failed university and failed water company for president. so there is no rationale for donald trump for commander-in-chief and not whatever, you know, ridiculous alignment of characters he chooses to be around him in his cabinet. so i find the whole thing -- i was just looking online and

listening to your previous guests. the reporters on the hill saying that john cornyn is snorting and people at the pentagon are aghast. it's like, where were all these people? obviously, donald trump was going to pick his cronies and tv show hosts to run the government. like, that's what he told us he was going to do. and so, you know, i think that there are some people, the establishment in the gop now is maga, but the former establishment of the gop, john thune and all of them are in for a rude awakening. these hits will keep coming. i expect most if not all will be confirmed and possibly confirmed by a recess appointment which would be an unprecedented destruction of norms. but that would be the latest in a long line of unprecedented norm destructions. >> yeah. and not for donald trump who had a -- by the end of his first term, almost -- more than half of his cabinet, he liked it that way.

let me show you what one republican senator said about matt gaetz last year. >> there is a reason why no one in the conference came to defend him. because we had all seen the videos he was showing on the house floor. we walked away, the girls he slept with. he bragged about how he crushed ed medicine and chased it with an energy drink to go all night. >> e.d. medicine? is that erectile dysfunction medicine? wow. we are not covering america's best. joining our coverage nbc news capitol hill correspondent who works in the building where that gentleman, that senator, republican senator just told this extraordinary story about america's incoming attorney general. he was, quote, crushing e.d. medicine, chasing with energy

drinks so he could, quote, if all night. >> not the introduction i thought i would have in my place much work, but here we are. i have been talking to my sources, nicolle, as they digest this news. i can tell you that the rancor from within gaetz's own colleagues is not just being talked about now-senator mullin. he had served in the house prior to coming to the senate. but it's coming from people who are his own house republican colleagues right now. as this news was put out on social media, i'm told along with my colleagues scott wong that house republican lawmakers had every range of reactions from gasping to awed big saying, oh, my god. some thought that maybe they misreading is or it wasn't real. we know how this is president-elect trump's pick to lead the department of justice. put ag side the concerns about if this is good for a house

republican majority that is barely large enough to function, there is, i think, a pretty sizable amount of ire and, frankly, hatred of matt gaetz from some of his colleagues here on capitol hill. you have to remember there are layers to this, as there often are. you talked about the once from the legal and the department of justice perspective, but here on capitol hill part. reason why gaetz doesn't boast a lot of people coming out and celebrating this is, one, because they think he won't get senate confirmed. i think that leads us to another conversation about which of these senators is willing to be the first to stand up and say no to trump as most of their colleagues are talking about trump coming back in with a mandate. the other piece is that gaetz is the one who orchestrated the ouster of kevin mccarthy about a year ago. that's something that earned him no friends within the house republican conference. there are some of them who are openly at this point saying that they are happy to see him leave the conference because they don't want him as a colleague

anymore. they are also happy to watch him have a failure of a confirmation hearing because they don't think that the senate will grant him the votes to actually get to this position. i don't know that we know that at this point. we are hearing from republican senators who are saying that he is going to have a long way to go, a lot of convincing to do, that it's going to be a tough confirmation process. we heard in the last few minutes from senator chris murphy on the democratic side of the aisle saying that this is a red alert moment for democracy. so this is very much roiling capitol hill in real time as we start to see this trump cabinet take shape. i will say, yesterday we were tracking the reaction on pete hegseth for department of defense, and we heard senators basically say, who, what, wow? those were the reactions. the gaetz pick here i think is shocking even more people as they see this cabinet start to take shape. >> why are they shokds?

i mean, did this he -- i mean, i just cover trump. i watch the events. i mean, he delights in mitch mcconnell saying he will vote for him after mitch mcconnell's own wife was demeaned with a racist smear. he delights in bill barr becoming a star witness against him and then crumbling under questioning saying i will vote in him. he delights in humiliating them. can you name names? who is shocked and why? >> maybe shocked is the wrong word. i think, in part, people might have been surprised on the face of, you know -- him picking someone else from the house because the majority is so slim. i think that's part of this equation even though a numbers game seems far from mind parsing through this level of nous. at the same time, i think there is still some people who maintain this feeling of like, hoping against hope trump will come out and be the kind of presidential force that they have hoped that he would be for the last eight years, and i sort

of stopped reporting on people who describe him that way in part because even if they are right for a little while, trump usually reverts back to the norm breaking, nontraditional whatever thing he is going to end up doing. and so i think that there is just still those people who think, well, maybe this time it will be different, and i think that with each pick from the cabinet we actually start to see that, once again, those people who might feel that way are, i think, going to be proven wrong. >> those people are a joke if they really still exist. i don't actually believe they still exist. this is again -- we are going to quote republicans here. this a republican's description of the new attorney general. showing us videos of the girls he slept with and told us he crushed e.d. medicine and chased it it with energy drinks so he could go all night. >> that was an ethics investigation, too. >> right. i mean, this is exactly, exactly who trump told us he would hand the reins to.

ali vitali, i apologize for the facts as they have presented themselves to us today. but i do not apologize to anyone for getting to hear your fantastic reporting on this. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> much more to come. what people inside the department that really is in charge of carrying out in a competent and effective way two of the central pillars of what trump voters thought they were getting with trump, and that is a government that is tough on crime and a government with a tough and competent immigration policy. we will ask who does those big jobs next. we will ask who does those big jobs next. feel like life was moving on without me. then i found a chance to let in the lyte.” discover caplyta. unlike some medicines that only treat bipolar i, caplyta is proven to deliver significant symptom relief from both bipolar i & ii depression. and in clinical trials, movement disorders and weight gain were not common. caplyta can cause serious side effects. call your doctor about sudden mood changes, behaviors, or suicidal thoughts right away.

anti-depressants may increase these risks in young adults. elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. caplyta is not approved for dementia-related psychosis. report fever, confusion, or stiff muscles, which may be life threatening, or uncontrolled muscle movements which may be permanent. common side effects include sleepiness, dizziness, nausea, and dry mouth. these aren't all the side effects. in the darkness of bipolar i & ii depression, caplyta can help you let in the lyte. ask your doctor about caplyta. find savings and support at caplyta.com.

i've been worn by celebrities, athletes, and world leaders. but i've always felt most comfortable up here, with the folks that made me who i am. i'm right at home, out here on the land. and i'm in my lane on the shoulder of the interstate. because this is where i come from. i've been showing up here for nearly 200 years. and i can't wait to see what's next. hats off to the future. nothing runs like a deere™

when a tough cough finds you on the go, a syrup would be... silly! woo! hey! try new robitussin soft chews. packed with the power of robitussin... in every bite. easy to take cough relief, anywhere. chew on relief, chew on a

♪ robitussin ♪ nbc news is reporting that the news that trump has selected matt gaetz to be the country's attorney general is being met by astonishment inside the department of justice. one doj official called it, quote, truly stunning, and another labeled it, quote, insane. another source, quote, i'm struggling to find words, end quote, and another, look, he is uniquely qualified. how many other prospective attorney generals general had previous general as the subject of a criminal investigation? there is that. joining us, a former top official at doj. i don't want to be glib about the department of justice. it's been sort of the apple of donald trump's eye since the moment he became president. actually even before during the transition, the national security officials traveled up

to trump tower where he lived at the time, told him -- tried to brief him, told him about some sort of unflattering things about him and he had the intelligence agencies, the department of justice, the national security agencies in particular, in his sights to sort of tear down and remake in his own image since then. what is your thought about matt gaetz as sort of the rationale conclusion of a second go at for trump? >> well, if you are not glib, i will. this is really a vomit in your mouth moment for alumni of the department of justice and for people around the united states who care about the rule of law. the justice department is the cornerstone of the rule of law in our country, and this nomination reflects the crudest contempt and disrespect for the rule of law, department of justice as an institution, and

for the thousands of men and women across the country who every day strive to carry out their mission to represent the people of the united states and the rules of the united states constitution and bring justice around this country. >> well, i don't know that you will find an anchor who has covered more earnestly the failed efforts by the department of justice under two presidents to hold donald trump accountable. and i think that an honest look by all those people vomiting inning in their mouth has to look how robert mueller didn't say he should be indicted and merrick garland failed for donald trump's role in the deadly insurrection until after the congressional probe. is that part of the calculation for the very, very, very serious and important and respected folks who had the same sort of universal reaction to matt gaetz?

>> i don't know. he is bent on retribution and vengeance. he still carries a grudge over the initiation and conduct of the investigation, the russian interference in the 2016 election, which i helped oversee and bob muller was appointed. you know, the president-elect in his public statement announcing the gaetz nomination said he would help bring about the deweaponization of the department of justice. if confirmed, it will be the opposite. he will turn the department of justice into a petting zoo for the new president. and it's going to demolish morale within the department. i can only hope that my former colleagues certainly what i try to do for a long time and stand pat, hold your ground, continue to do the right thing as you see it under your oath day in and day out. >> what do you think the reaction will be when trump

asked the department to prosecute john kerry. jeff berman writes about this in his book, former trump to serve as -- sdny, u.s. attorney during the first trump presidency. he rejected some of those political prosecutions, sent them back to main doj where they were farmed out to other more compliant offices. what does that process look like with someone like matt gaetz in charge of the department? >> well, depends. there will be a political appointees pointed to u.s. attorney positions to positions heading each division of the department. those are political appointees and my former division, the national security division, only the assistant attorney general was a political appointee, although his deputy became political. the line attorneys, trial within the department. assistant u.s. attorneys around the country, are nonpartisan

public servants and there will be a revulsion against doing anything that they see as a partisan politicization of a criminal justice process in service to a tyrant. >> i hope you can keep yourself available between the hours of four and six. i think we will need you, sir. >> good to be with you, nicolle. >> i want to bring into our coverage congressman eric swalwell of california. your reaction to the news of matt gaetz as attorney general? >> it's not going to happen. i know that's a different take than anyone else's, but it's not going to happen. and so if the president-elect wanted to amuse us today during these dark times, i will give him credit for having a sense of humor because i didn't think he had a sense of humor. but this shows that he might have a sense of humor. puff daddy, diddy, maybe -- for

this. but no one else in america is asking for this. and i have more confidence than you probably would think i should have that the senate is never going to let this see the light of day. >> and on monday trump made clear he will use the reese's appointments. do not believe him or think that matt gaetz is eligible for a recess appointment? >> i believe that such an unserious appointment like this by appointing somebody who clearly would abuse the power at the department of justice has to move senators to not allow a recess appointment because this would just wreak chaos on the american criminal justice system. so, again, i don't want people to get too spun up about this. i don't want to ruin how this is going to end, but the spoiler alert is matt gaetz is not going

to be the attorney general. i actually knowing donald trump and i have been on this guy for eight years, russia investigation, impeachment, i have my own lawsuit against him, i testified in the colorado case to keep him off the ballot. this to me feels more like the opening of a negotiation trying to own the libs and i caution us, let's not spin ourselves up too much because this is never going to happen. >> tim miller, do you share the congressman's confidence in that? >> spun up? this is exactly what i expected. so i guess we agree on that. but i don't share his confidence. i am also not sure that if it wasn't matt gaetz that the next pick would be any better. i mean, like the short list of potential people included the attorney general of infectious, ken paxton. there was -- also indicted like president trump, included a bunch of guests on steve bannon's war room and people that are involved in the last

coup attempt. i'm sure jeffrey clark. i don't know why we would expect if matt gaetz was withdrawn because his republican colleagues hate him, why the next pick would be better. with respect to congressman swalwell, who i appreciate, i'm talking about the republicans on the hill who i have been watching their reactions on the internet as you have been doing these interviews, i think everybody needs to expand the aperture of what they think this is going to look like. like, i think, like, the level of clownishness that we are going to see over the next four years might be a couple of -- might be degrees larger or wider than people expect. i think that there has been a lot of folks who thought, okay, he is going to -- he is going to do what he did last time, you bring in priebus and mad dog

mattis. that's not happening this time. he is bringing in loyalists and will bring in fox news hosts and he is going to bring in people under also investigation like him because he doesn't have any respect for the doj and the congressman swalwell might be direct, in the end matt gaetz does not get confirmed. but i suspect that he will. if it's not matt gaetz, i suspect it will be someone else who has been aligned with donald trump in his efforts to undermine the constitution in the past. >> claire? >> i think he will get confirmed. i also agree with tim that there is a group of people who voted for trump, who willfully believed that trump didn't mean what he was saying and wouldn't do what weighs saying, that he was lying about all of it, except the tax cuts. those people are in for a wild

ride. he is not going to nominate bill barr when gaetz doesn't make it t the other thing i wanted to bring up, important to remember what happened today in the united states senate, donald trump lost in the united states senate today. he did everything but come out publicly and say he did not want john thune to be leader. he reason he didn't say it, he was afraid he might lose. he didn't want to publicly say, no, john thune. all of the surrogates said no john thune. some openly pushing rick scott. once the senators didn't have to be publicly accountable, they gave the back of their hand to donald trump. they voted for john thune to be their leader. and then he makes these appointments right after. it's almost like he wanted to distract everyone from the fact that the guy he didn't want to be leader got elected. the guy, frankly, who is probably most in the mold with mitch mcconnell got elect the. he put these three appointments out there, the two he put out

today, knowing it would stir up a nest of comment and that would become the story. some there really is, i think, things going on here in terms of negotiations as eric talked about. this is his way of saying, okay, senate, just watch me. you are not going to do what i want? watch me. >> and imagine what a country we live in if people were only as brave when people were looking at when they were filling out secret ballots. congressman swalwell, thank you for joining us. claire and tim, thank you for spending the hour with us. coming up next, we will speak to former members of the military in the wake of donald trump appointing a fox news weekend morning show anchor to run the united states pentagon. that story is next. tates pentagn that story is next just like mama taught me. so i'm always spraying febreze fabric spray... to freshen up and fight odors. smells like home. smells like flowers to me, man. thank you, zeke. ♪ lalalalala. ♪ (sneeze) (hooves approaching) not again. your cold is coming!

your cold is coming! thanks...revere. we really need to keep zicam in the house. only if you want to shorten your cold! when you feel a cold coming, shorten it with zicam (revere: hyah) i brought in ensure max protein with 30 grams of protein. those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks! —uh. —here i'll take that. [cheering] ensure max protein, 30 grams protein, 1 gram sugar and a protein blend to feed muscles up to 7 hours. ♪♪ (vo) sail through the heart of historic cities and unforgettable scenery with viking.

unpack once, and get closer to iconic landmarks, local life, and cultural treasures. because when you experience europe on a viking longship, you'll spend less time getting there and more time being there. viking. exploring the world in comfort. new projects means new project managers. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. when you sponsor a job on indeed, it's easier for talented candidates to find it. which makes it easier for you to hire them. visit indeed.com/hire

hi there, everyone.

it is now 5:00 in new york. and in washington, d.c., which is for some reason surprised by the latest announcements from the incoming president, donald trump. washington insiders coming to grips with the series of appointments they find stunning, appointments made by donald trump to head the most important cabinet departments, national security agencies in the last 20 hours. trump naming former congresswoman tulsi gabbard to be his director of national intelligence, former democrat, fox news figure and as we have been talking about, he named congressman matt gaetz to be his pick for attorney general and to lead the biggest employer in the country, if not the world, with nearly 3 million employees and the presence in 51 countries, the bulwark of american national security and america's commitments to our allies, donald trump has chosen another fox news fixture for that job, pete hegseth is a decorated army

veteran, but he's probably best known as cnn reports for, quote, putting on a show specifically for trump, quote, unquote, on trump's favorite network fox news on the weekend and for his contempt on anything seen as woke. he will be the defense secretary if he's confirmed. here's some of what he has said over the years on fox, and on social media, where he hawks so-called antiwoke products. >> i'm straight up just saying we should not have women in combat roles. and then, you know, whatever the standards -- whatever the combat standards in 1995, let's make those standards. >> i have friends who texted me are who are not very political saying i'm coming to washington, d.c. today because i can't handle what is happening in my country. >> these folks on the lawn, these are not conspiracy theorists motivated by lies, that's a bunch of nonsense people want to tell us. these are people who understand first principles, they love freedoms and freereminded about

on my wall when i got my degree. >> i don't think i washed my hands for ten years. really, i don't -- i don't really wash my hands ever. >> somebody help me. oh, man. >> i inoculate myself. germs are not a real thing. i can't see them, therefore they're not real. >> totally antiwoke, not going for that garbage and i need to show you this product one more time. it is a grenade. >> caliber coffee, what is their motto, faith, family, firearms, coffee. it is better known and damn good. >> freedom. freedom. that's freedom. >> hegseth is someone who had donald trump's ear for a very long time. "washington post" reports this, quote, hegseth was a key player, for instance, in convincing the then president to intervene in the war crimes cases of three u.s. service members in 2019.

that effort led to pardons for two army officers, matthew l. goldsten and clint lawrence in separate murder cases and edward gallagher who had seen his rank reduced after a military jury acquitted him of murder charges but found him guilty of e ing for a photograph with a corporation. using his platform, he lobbied repeatedly on behalf of the three men, as platoon members serving under lawrence and gallagher described the killings as cold blooded and unnecessary. one squad leader in their platoon called it, quote, straight murder. trump dropped charges against goldsten, pardoned lawrence and reversed gallagher's demotion. now the nomination of pete hegseth is setting off alarm bells at the pentagon. politico reporting this, national security officials and defense analysts had briefed for surprises from trump after experiencing his first four years in office. but even grading on that curve,

they say the announcement of pete hegseth caught them off guard. trump puts the highest value on loyalty. quote, it appears that one of the main criteria that is being used is how well do people defend donald trump on television. one assessment was more blunt, who the eff is this guy, said a defense industry lobbyist, who was granted -- who spoke anonymously to be candid. should he be confirmed, hegseth's first order of business will likely be that purge of pentagon top brass. here's what he said on a podcast six days ago. >> you got to fire the chairman of joint chiefs and fire the -- obviously bring in the secretary of defense, but any general involved, general, admiral, involved in any of the dei woke [ bleep ] has got to go. >> got to go. the future of the united states military on the line as donald trump nominates a fox news weekend morning show host to be

the secretary of defense is where we begin the hour. retired four star army general and msnbc military analyst barry mccaffrey is here, plus retired u.s. marine corps lieutenant colonel founder of the democratic majority action pac amy mcgrath is here, the president of media matters for america, angela carason is with me at the table, founder and ceo of independent veterans of america paul rykoff is here. you predicted some moves earlier this week. did you have an inside line or how did you know? >> no. but i know pete hegseth and his relationship with trump, almost everybody in the veterans ity knows him and how close he is to trump because he talks about it all the time. i would have predicted him for chief of staff, maybe put him in as va secretary, but this is a radical and bold move and i think it is a reflection of his loyalty to trump more than

anything else. hegseth is a culture warrior, good at communications and at the religious war and at the political war, but he is the most unqualified candidate for this position in the history of america. he is so underqualified that from the moment the news broke, my phone and i'm sure mccaffrey's and everybody else's phones blew up with everybody saying whiskey, tango, foxtrot, is this serious? the opportunity for him to do damage is really, really profound. we're talking about a guy who says he wants no women in the military, remove diversity initiatives, fire senior leadership at the department, used to be called the department of war. this is a pentagon with 2.7 million employees. this is very dangerous. it is also on strategy, because trump -- i ask everybody to take a big deep breath, trump is throwing like a giant flash grenade into america. he wants to disorient people, flood the zone and we all need to take a big deep breath and recognize the threat for what it is. don't dismiss the videos. hegseth could very well be the secretary of defense and we as a

country have to think about putting up the guardrails. this is what it looks like when there is no guardrails. >> i guess the only thing i would say is he will be the secretary of defense if people think senate republicans are bulwark against anything. >> i don't. and i mean i said this publicly, i'm not counting on the democrats either. that's what we see now. trump has the opportunity to run the table. and i think, you know, voices that we have heard over the last couple of months may not even resonate, so now you're, again, talking about people inside the pentagon after they try to execute a purge, you're going to have the very foundation of the fabric of our country trying to hold the line. trump is going for the pentagon first, the pentagon stopped him last time. this is where milley held the line and stopped him from deploying the national guard against american civilians. that's why he's going to the pentagon and defense industry first, it is the most formidable resistance to what he wants to execute. >> general mccaffrey, life long doj folks have said, well, it is going to fall to the line

officers now. paul just said it is going to fall to the men and women in the military to hold the line. i come back to a question i asked for four years, why didn't it fall to former leaders, like secretary mattis or general milley to speak out so that it wouldn't fall to these men? and i would say the same about the attorney general, why when the leaders refused to weigh into our politics does it fall to the men and women who make up the career officers of the agencies to hold the line against an american president? >> well, look, i would probably take somewhat different approach than paul has articulated. he's got a very sound case, with what he put on the table. i think the nominee is actually very qualified. we had a harvard professor, congressman, intellectuals, secretary of defense, this nominee comes in with harvard, princeton and a combat entry badge earned as a rifle platoon

leader in combat. he's watched the issues for over a decade, he's published books, he's very much in touch with the veterans community, so i think he's a very astute character, and he probably will be surrounded by people who understand how to manage this gigantic enterprise. the reason to be concerned is policies. you know, are we going to try to unravel things like our commitment to nato, are we going to turn ukraine over to criminal invasion by a murderous thug putin? are we going to try and tell women in the armed forces that we're not a merit-based institution, we're one that is involved in gender wars. so, it is policy. i'm convinced he will be confirmed in the senate. so we got to deal with this in a realistic manner. >> let's deal with policy as it

pertains to vladimir putin. let me show you what he said about what putin's really trying to do, not so bad. >> i found overinflated from the beginning this idea that vladimir putin's attack on ukraine was going to lead to nuclear war or war across the continent. i've always felt like it was -- from the beginning, a couple of days in, this feels like a putin is giving me my [ bleep ] back war. it feels like i feel like you've been pushing pretty hard and we used to have the former soviet union and we're pretty proud of that and ukraine was a part of it and all these other -- now i want my [ bleep ] back and i think i'm at the right time where i'm powerful enough to do it. >> he wants his back, the country of ukraine, do you think he'll be confirmed thinking that ukraine should be given back to putin? >> well, look, this is the

hardest part to understand by president-elect trump or by his nominee to be sec def or the 80% of republicans who apparently will say that they think the russians are our friends. and, in fact, what we're dealing with, a dictator, putin, who has invaded four other nations, who murders his political opponents, the most oppressed people in the world by russian aggression are russians. he is a threat to western europe. they're keenly aware of it. france, germany, denmark, finland, sweden both joining nato, so i find it hard to understand why anyone would be an apologist for the murderous aggression by putin against ukraine. makes no sense. policy matters. if we walk away from nato, we will unravel a good bit of u.s.

national security. >> general mccaffrey, you inspire so much confidence and trust among our viewers. i would like to draw you out on your confidence in mr. hegseth to do the job. do you know him? has he called you? have you met with him? what makes you feel he would be good at this job when so much of the instant reaction is concern? >> well, again, good at his job. i'm very concerned about his policies from day one on, and he's obviously in tune with the president-elect of the united states. and i don't think the house or the senate will oppose him. and so i think we're likely to see very dangerous national security policies being enacted. so i would separate his personal confidence, which is considerable, and looking back at the former sec def, almost nobody is prepared to manage 2.8

million person workforce, there will be others in there who understand how to do that. i also go back, trump at the time, when he lost the election was trying, i thought, to run a coup against the united states. and he put a team over in the pentagon, a retired lieutenant colonel white house functionary, not confirmed by the senate, sent four or five unstable characters over with him, and had it not been for general milley, we would have seen another overt threat to the safety of the american people. so, this nominee is not in that category. he's actually a very intelligent guy, he understands defense issues, but his policies are in tune with trump who is a threat to u.s. national security. >> amy, let me show you some of what general mccaffrey is talking about, the ways in which trump sought to use the military in his first term. this is -- this starts with former secretary of defense

esper. >> i just think about what you wrote in your book, and that during the george floyd marches, and protest in 2020, he asked about shooting protesters and as you wrote, you said, you quoted him saying, can't you just shoot them, shoot them in the legs or something? when he's saying the enemy from within should be handled by the national guard and if necessary the u.s. military, do you fear that he would try to utilize the national guard, the military against u.s. citizens? >> yes, i do, of course. because i lived through that. and i saw over the summer of 2020 where president trump and those around him wanted to use the national guard and various capacities and cities such as chicago and portland and seattle, and, of course, there was a moment in time as you just described where he -- on that early date in june, he wanted to bring in active duty military as well. that's what equally concerns me

about his comment, the use of the military in these types of things. >> can you hear me, amy? we're hearing from -- >> i can hear you, yes. >> to have some of these jobs as we learn with a trump has in mind for 2.0, your thoughts on the appointment and what is on the record in terms of being on the table for the u.s. military in a second trump presidency? >> wow, where to begin? so, you know, look, i have enormous respect for the general, but i think this -- look, this nomination is reflective of donald trump and has issues not only in policy, this man has ethical issues, personal ethical issues in the past. and in terms of his qualifications, i can tell you, i will never personally ever feel underqualified for a position ever again if he gets into secretary of defense. but the big thing is oath to the

constitution. i mean, the reason why, you know, trump's former secretaries of defense in his first term in office said that he was unqualified, and now what is trump going to do and we're seeing this play out, he is going to nominate and appoint people who do not care about their oath to the constitution. and care about their loyalty to donald trump. and the last thing is, you know, we tried to warn america. so many of us saw this coming. there were many of us that did exercises, war games throughout the summer, looking at what donald trump would do and a lot of people said as tim said earlier on your show, they didn't think that donald trump would do some of these things and people who are around him said, oh, yes, oh, yes, he will. we're just at the very beginning of this. >> yeah, that's the part of this story that i have a really hard time covering with a straight

face because donald trump's intentions for a second term were communicated by donald trump this time, and then they were put on paper, by a bunch of folks s s that work very close with donald trump. we all had it in front of us. one of the dynamics, i tried to sus out from our capitol hill correspondent ali vitali, who is shocked, who is surprised, donald trump is a lot of things, but sneaky isn't one of them. he was so transparent about everything he wanted from the department of justice of the person who led it, from the pentagon and the people who lead it, from the intelligence agencies and the people who lead it, that all of this is unfolding exactly as he told the country it would. i have to sneak in a break. i'll ask you all to stick around. on the other side, what was considered a few hours ago to be the most extreme and unqualified cabinet pick so far, that was fox news host pete hegseth, by

many, the national security dangers inherent in that choice, we'll continue to talk about. as well as the others that are coming into focus, tulsi gabbard and, of course, matt gaetz. also ahead, elon musk named as one of donald trump's department of government efficiency. he'll be tasked with gutting billions of dollars in federal spending and fire, thousands of federal workers in that process. what trump expects and how long before he grows tired of the world's richest person tagging along everywhere he goes. "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. " continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. (vo) homes-dot-com. we've done your home work. it's the holidays at wayfair! y'all it's a gift swap. you gotta swap your gifts. but this pillow is so me. yes, that's because you brought it. no no no. come on y'all! this is exactly what i was wishing for. perfect swap. my turn.

what the fudge? now that's a holiday classic. just like you. you got a place for that? i've got something in mind. ♪ wayfair, every style, every home. ♪ (tony hawk) skating for over 45 years has taken a toll on my body. i take qunol turmeric because it helps with healthy joints and inflammation support. why qunol? it has superior absorption compared to regular turmeric. qunol. the brand i trust. your record label is taking off. but so is your sound engineer. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. our advanced matching helps find talented candidates, so you can connect with them fast. visit indeed.com/hire my moderate to severe crohn's symptoms kept me out of the picture.

with skyrizi, feel symptom relief at 4 weeks. many people were in remission at 12 weeks, at 1 year, and even at 2 years. don't use if allergic. serious allergic reactions, increased infections, or lower ability to fight them may occur. before treatment, get checked for infections and tb. tell your doctor about any flu-like symptoms or vaccines. liver problems leading to hospitalization may occur when treated for crohn's. ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ ask your gastroenterologist about skyrizi. your business needs a network it can count on...

ask your gastroenterologist even during the unexpected. power's out! power's out! -power's out! power's out! -power's out comcast business has you covered, with wifi backup to help keep you up and running. wifi's up. let's power on! let's power on! let's power on! -let's power on! it's from the company with 99.9% network reliability. plus advanced security. let's power on! power on with the leader in connectivity. powering possibilities. comcast business. power's out.

everyone is back. angela, you waited patiently. your thoughts on this round of appointments. >> gosh, i mean, on the hegseth thing, the thing i just can't sort of ignore is -- couple of things, i remember when people hegseth was on fox news attacking donald trump for criticizing the iraq war. he was an iraq war proponent. there is a narrative that somehow pete hegseth is not a hawk, he's not someone that is going to get us into wars, that in fact he is aligned with this sort of false narrative that trump is the peace candidate and that's not true at all. i remember when he was attacking trump for what he claims for repeating nancy pelosi's talking points. the reason i start there, it piggybacks off something the general was saying before, it gets into the -- to his policies. because to me, hegseth's policies is two fold. one, it is fidelity to donald trump above all else. when he started to make that shift, a few years after he

was -- when he shifted for being never trumper to fully on board with trump, that required a big change. and one of the things he has demonstrated for the last five years is total fidelity to donald trump. and he saw this dei piece as an opportunity to really further ingratiate himself. a lot of his conversations and discussions have really centered around that as the source of all the issues with our foreign policy, and our military. so, that's the first policy that concerns me is that. especially when we think about all the warnings as you noted before and all the open discussions about how trump plans to misuse the military for his purposes. i don't think we want somebody there who above all else has fidelity to donald trump. we want somebody there with fidelity to the constitution and to the -- to what they serve. so they can be -- they can provide good advice and good countermeasure and counterweight. that's the first thing. the second thing that concerns

me, if he's not a nationalist, he's one of the best warriors. he sees the military as a fighting sword for christ. one of the other things that he pushes on outside of misogyny and dei is antimuslim bigotry. he constantly talks about, even more recently, that muslims reproduce too much, that christians need to be aware of this and fight back and push back. this is a theme that he has and he -- it is not just purely rooted in antimuslim bigotry, it is rooted more in his feelings for christ and that ties in with something that the first guest paul was talking about, that's really the takeaway for me, is that the real concern around hegseth, aside from all those things, not just his fidelity and how he sees the military, it is that he is really good at culture. i watched 650 trump ies and very few of them, almost all of them, did he talk about one or two men in the audience that were big, beautiful and muscular and what he sees in hegseth is

sort of an alpha man, an essential casting, an ideal character and hegseth knows that and leans into that role. so, a part of what he's going to be designed to do is to sell what trump's vision, what trump is doing, to the very audience that just elected trump. that's hopped up on the russian misinformation and other misinformation that they're being pickled in, he's going to be their sort of public figure for that. that, to me, is the time he could be on the surface a very effective sort of vanguard for the scariest of trump's policies. >> and the tide of trump, the first business they did together, angelo, was for hegseth, a weekend morning cable host, to intervene in the military. >> yes, as you were going through that, he was advocating for the pardons of those individuals, i also remember that moment, one thing that did get brought up is the same time he was pushing for those

pardons, he was also making personnel decisions, advocating for the secretary of the navy to be fired on a regular basis and ultimately trump did just that. as a direct result of watching his show. he made personnel decisions, he targeted those individuals and so that, you know, to me, is sort of obviously not just a reflection of how he sees justice, these people were -- went through the process, they were found guilty, but it ties in with he's willing to sort of advocate for, you know, for influence and power, willing to use personnel as a weapon. that's what trump at least on the surface what he said he's going to do. and i think we talked about this a lot over the last few months, one of the things that project 2025 or whatever people -- don't agree with it, agenda 47, he's going to go in, he's going to smash what they have identified as the deep state, which is all the bureaucrats that helped make it work, they're going to replace it with loyalists and enemy number one is what they see as dei, so then they could have smooth runway to misuse,

abuse and implement all their policies across government -- across the government. him seeing the military as a flaming sword for christ, isn't just something he's going to observe, hegseth intends to use that and help trump use that for instrument of his policies. and that's really what ultimately scares me. i get this idea about qualified, not qualified. there is a lot of positions there and what that means is sort of -- it varies. i think the discussion about what he represents and what he reflects and what he could do, that's the part that is much scarier to me. and i think those -- that's what makes him to me if not unqualified, certainly not a candidate or someone that should be in that role. >> what happens on day one? this is a department that makes or breaks anyone's presidency. so what happens on day one with him in charge? >> angelo's assessment is really important because hegseth is effective. don't dismiss him. he is extremely effective in

communicating the message. and rallying people and embodying the brand and being a culture warrior. and that is really what is unique here. he's -- whether he's qualified or not, he's the most overtly political appointee we have ever seen and extreme political appointee. this is so far from a moderate secretary of defense, i don't think we have a parallel. when kamala harris said we're not going back, pete hegseth is the person who is going to roll back every single thing. he's going to take away abortion rights in the military, going to implement the trans ban, take out the leadership that isn't loyal. pete hegseth is going to be the general in the front line carrying the flag, covered in tattoos and carrying the message. >> and what? and everyone will fall in line? >> that's the question now. what is the democratic response? who is it going to be now? >> what is the response inside of the military? >> right now the shock will wear

off quickly. it won't be like the democratic party where they'll be shattered and crying for weeks. the department of defense is built to try to withstand this. a lot of people who are going to retire are not going to retire. they're going to stay in and be like general milley and others and keep these people in line and in check but the political appointees are gone. the political appointees will be asking everybody at the lower level to do crazy stuff and that's where the real fights are going to be, in the back offices around the pentagon, in the first couple of months. >> i have to sneak in one more break. i want to come back to what the pentagon will be contending with in the middle east, in china, in europe. it is a serious time for the world. and i need all of your thoughts on that. we'll sneak in one more break. we'll all be right back. that. we'll sneak in one more break. we'll all be right back. lost her card, not the vibe. the soul searcher, is finding his identity, and helping to protect it. hey! oh yeah, the explorer! she's looking to dive deeper...

all while chase looks out for her. because these friends have chase. alerts that help check. tools that help protect. one bank that puts you in control. chase. make more of what's yours. the promise of this nation should extend to all from new york to new mexico, from alaska to alabama. but right now, people like you are losing their freedoms. some in power are suppressing voting rights. banning our kids books from libraries and attacking our right to make private health care decisions. we must act now to defend these freedoms and protect our democracy. and we can't do it without you. we are the american civil liberties union, and we're asking you to join us in protecting our democracy at the national level and in communities like yours. call or go online to myaclu.org to become a guardian of liberty today. your gift of just $19 a month.

only $0.63 a day will help ensure that together we can continue to fight for the freedoms of all americans, no matter your zip code. if you also believe in the right to vote, the right to free speech, the right to learn, the right to bodily autonomy. please join us now. these are your fundamental rights that people are playing with. and so you need to get involved, because if you don't, then someone else is going to decide whether or not you get to choose what happens to your own body. so please call or go to myaclu.org and become an aclu guardian of liberty for just $19 a month. when you use your credit card, you'll receive this special we the people t-shirt and more to show you're part of a movement to protect the rights of all people. we can't make systemic change in the way that we want to doing it by ourselves. we have to work together because we the people, means all of us. from sea to shining sea.

so please call or go online to myaclu.org to become a guardian of liberty today.

everyone is back. amy, one piece of this that i just want to inject into the conversation as someone who covered trump, the most days in the row for the most years, is that infrastructure week was usually what was announced by wednesday or thursday of most weeks of trump's presidency and come monday, there was never an infrastructure week. competence is not central to his brand on any front. but that the department is run competently is a matter of life and death for the men and women in it and our allies around the world. we haven't mentioned it, it has been 34 minutes, your concerns

about the ability of someone with this orientation, with this resume to competently run the department of defense. >> well, my concern is, look, the biggest, most important asset that the u.s. military has is its people. and when you put somebody as secretary of defense who has a history of attacking diversity, attacking the very people who serve this country, it's really concerning. the executive order, for example, that was just draft executive order that was leaked, that's an example of undermining the very principles of our military. this is the executive order that to purge all of the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, basically to have purity boards for generals and admirals rising so that if they don't fit into

this loyalty test that donald trump or now secretary of defense, this new one coming in, it doesn't meet that criteria, you would get rid of them. that is so against everything that the u.s. military has stood for 250 years. and so those things are very concerning and it will have ripple effects up and down the chain of command because people in the military will not trust their leaders. and i am very worried about that unit cohesion going forward. this is very concerning. but, again, we knew he would do this. we knew he would do it. >> one thing that we learned, i think in mark esper's book, is that donald trump wanted to court-martial stanley mcchrystal and admiral mccraven for criticizing him. he now has three generals who served him, generals milley, mattis and kelly who described him as fascist to the core. he's talked about military tribunals for liz cheney and court-martials for people who have crossed him.

is mr. hegseth, amy, someone who will green light something like that? >> well, i think he would. look, he was the leader that was trying to undermine the military justice system in the first trump administration. i don't think that there is anything that -- here's -- we should have no lack of imagination as to what donald trump and his people that he will surround himself with will do with the united states military. this is a concern that we brought forward for months, coming to the election, that our national security is at stake and here we are. the american people have given the united states military a self-inflicted wound by putting donald trump as commander in chief, and this is unfortunately what we're going to have to deal with now, and i hope that those members of the military can get

through this, because it is going to be a huge test to our country. >> what would it do to the many enand women men and women of the military to see mcchrystal, mccraven, mattis, milley or kelly court-martialed? >> it would rip apart the fabric of our military. now you're looking at anybody who has dissent, you're going to prosecute them? you're going to take people who have served their entire life in an a-political way wearing the uniform, swearing an oath to the constitution to put their best foot forward in defense of the country and then when they don't go along with what donald trump says or wants, you're going to prosecute them? it is like getting rid of having these purity tests for high ranking officers. that's going to make everybody up and down the chain of command believe that the people that are in charge of them, are they going to be loyal to the

constitution? are they going to be loyal to their oath? or just going to be loyal to donald trump? this is a real problem. >> amy mcgrath, general barry mccaffrey, angelo coresano, thank you so much. musk has a new job in the trump administration, but how long until his appearance in trump family photos wears thin? we'll get the latest reporting from our colleague vaughn hillyard next. latest reporting from our colleague vaughn hillyard next. hi. i'm damian clark. i'm here to help you understand how to get the most from medicare. if you're eligible for medicare, it's a good idea

to have original medicare. it gives you coverage for doctor office visits and hospital stays. but if you want even more benefits, you can choose a medicare advantage plan like the ones offered at humana. our plans combine original medicare with extra benefits in a single, convenient plan with $0, or low monthly plan premiums. these plans could even include prescription drug coverage with $0 copays on hundreds of prescriptions. plus, there's a cap on your out-of-pocket costs. most plans include dental, vision, even hearing coverage. there are $0 copays for in-network preventive services, and much more. get the most from medicare with a humana medicare advantage plan. call today to learn more. remember, annual enrollment for medicare advantage plans ends december 7th. humana. a more human way to health care.

the plane earlier with donald trump and his newest most shocking cabinet pick so far, matt gaetz for ag, was another wing man of trump's. the world's richest man, elon musk. it's quite a relationship that's budding, trump and musk on the campaign trail together, musk received a special shoutout during trump's victory speech. and made his way into the trump family photo. he spent the last week in palm beach, florida, reportedly riding around with donald trump in his golf cart. he was just named as a co-head along with vivek ramaswamy of the new department of government efficiency. today he joined the president-elect on capitol hill during his meeting with the house republican conference. that's him right there. elon musk even wanted to join donald trump when he visited with president joe biden at the white house earlier today to begin the peaceful transfer of

power. a role typically carried out by a future first lady. but she wasn't there. maybe some trouble in paradise. apparently those around trump are starting to tire of musk's constant presence. nbc news spoke with two people familiar who said this, quote, musk's near constant presence at mar-a-lago in the weeks since election day have begun to wear on people, who have been in trump's inner circle longer than the tech billionaire and see him as overstepping his role in the transition. quote, he's behaving as if he's a co-president and making sure everyone knows it. one of the people said of elon musk. which means that it is just a matter of time before trump dumps him. we know trump doesn't like anyone overshadowing him, he joked earlier to house present republicans, quote, elon won't go home, i can't get rid of him until i don't like him. joining our conversation nbc news correspondent vaughn hillyard in west palm beach,

florida, also joining us anchor and correspondent for bloomberg news david gura. elon and trump, how long is this going to go on like this? >> reporter: well, right now donald trump has decided he's essentially become one of his top advisers from the richest man to spending the last week in palm beach. he invested more than $100 million personally in helping donald trump get elected and donald trump last night tapping him and we should note in an outside the government role as an adviser consultant, one that is questionable whether he'll have to actually turn over any financial disclosures or conflict of interest documentation to the federal government in this role, but he's tapped him and vivek ramaswamy to go in and come up with a plan over the next 18 months on how to downsize and consolidate the federal government. and donald trump, we should note, he campaigned on this, he repeatedly touted the fact that

he lon elon musk wanted to cut $2 trillion from the annual budget. elon musk has not been specific at all about where those cuts would go, whether it be social security, defense spending, immigration enforcement and then the second part of that, which is the suggestion by elon musk and vivek ramaswamy they want to consolidate the departments and agencies exactly which departments and agencies and whether donald trump's actually goes forward with that based off of the congressional approval and authorization to go forward with that, that's still an outstanding question as well. so far it is very scant on details, but for now, donald trump giving the biggest benefactor to his campaign the tacit acknowledgement of keeping around the top adviser and now this role to essentially work as an outside adviser is part of his presidency. >> david, let's deal with elon musk, the business person.

cnbc reports this, quote, since trump's victory last week, musk is about $70 billion richer on paper. most of musk's wealth is wrapped up in his holdings of tesla and the four trading days since the election the electric vehiclemaker's stock has soared by 39%. that has lifted the company's market cap well past $1 trillion. just talk about musk's opportunities, if you will, from this association. >> yeah, one wonders why he's doing this and right to point out the money he invested in the campaign is substantial by many means, but not by elon musk means. and you cite the fact that tesla stock has gone up, we know from reporting by ronan farrow and others how involved his many companies are with the u.s. government today, spacex, chief among those. those entities he's still running while he's managing to advise the president-elect and scheme about whatever this new

department is going to be. but he stands to benefit substantially. you listen to what the president-elect says about what elon musk might do beyond cutting and making the government more efficient and he stands to gain quite a bit. i think that it is -- it is cynical but we shouldn't excuse that and just to kind of note as we think through what this fake department might do, it strikes me there is a lack of serious about it and vaughn is right, we heard this $2 trillion figure over and over again, it came about very casually, at madison square garden rally when howard lutnick asked how much he could cut, it is an astonishing amount of money, $2 trillion and would have to come from entitlement programs and you know well efforts in the past to tackle deficits, the simpson bowles commission, all of that, it is something so intractable, so difficult to do in washington. i draw the parallel to his business empire. so many of us were, are twitter

use users, watched what happened when he took over the company. and we see him as a corporate cost cutter trying to do away with staff and waste management. for most people, the result of that has not been a happy one. >> the most diplomatic voice i've heard in a long time. i want to ask you one more question about all of his interests, why he is there. this was from some reporting in october in "the new york times." musk's rocket company spacex effectively dictates nasa's rocket launch schedule, the defense department relies on him to get most of its satellites to orbit, musk's companies were promised $3 billion across 100 different contracts last year with 17 federal agencies. his entanglements with federal regulators are numerous anded aer have adversarial. i understand that all the power

this week, vaughn hillyard, is -- and david, you know, on the trump side, but these are brands that rely on public support. and it seems that tieing your brand to trump, who has never consistently stayed above 50%, is a big risk. do any of them worry about what happens in a month or a year if the matt gaetz justice department isn't effective in keeping crime down at the lowest levels or the hegseth department of defense has a calamity when the military is turned on the american citizens or the immigration promises aren't kept or the economy tanks because of the tariffs, are there any concerns in any of the brands exposed? vaughn, you first? >> reporter: i think it is a good question. i think that is where elon musk, i think, is very much of a similar personality. let's be clear. i think we can say that objectively, similar personality to that of donald trump. these are two men back during the first administration went tit for tat and it was in 2022

that donald trump called elon musk a bs artist. that was two years ago. and so for i think the elon musk, i mean, largely he gained a lot of his money based off of taking risks. and there are those who question, right, whether he wasn't necessarily the engineer himself of tesla vehicles, or of the actual space rockets, but somebody that was willing to put money and take big risks and so far in massive ways it paid off for him. so, for him, i think this is just a continuation now and at an executive branch of the united states, the most powerful man in the world, donald trump, tieing himself together to see exactly what sort of power they are able to have as a joint tandem and one doesn't -- do we know where it goes? it is not clear. it is a risk that elon musk made the calculation is worth taking. >> david gura, last word. >> just picking up on that, he's someone who like donald trump is motivated by grievance and something really has gotten elon musk's crawl for a long time, the biden administration didn't

embrace him, didn't give him the benefits when it comes to electric vehicles that gm and other automakers got. there is an effort to rectify that by him. he likes being so close to power and i think that's going to be what motivates him and his efforts going forward. >> vaughn hillyard and david gura, thank you for spending time on this. we'll stay on it. another break for us. we'll be right back. another break for us we'll be right back. you founded your kayak company because you love the ocean. not spreadsheets... you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. our matching platform lets you spend less time searching and more time connecting with candidates. visit indeed.com/hire [♪♪] searcdid you know, time connthere's a detergenttes. that gets your dishes up to 100% clean, even in an older dishwasher? try cascade platinum plus. for sparkling clean dishes even on the toughest jobs. just scrape, load and you're done. switch to cascade platinum plus.

right now across the u.s., people are trying to ban books from public schools and public libraries. yes, libraries. we all have a first amendment right to read and learn different viewpoints. that's why every book belongs on the shelf.

yet book banning in the u.s. is worse than i've ever seen. it's people in power who want to control everything. well, i say no to censorship. and i say yes to freedom of speech and expression. if you do too, please join us in supporting the american civil liberties union today. for over 100 years, the aclu has fought for your rights and mine. including the right to read all manner of books. so please call or go online to myaclu.org. for just $19 a month, only $0.63 a day. you can become a guardian of liberty and help protect all the rights promised to us by the u.s. constitution. make no mistake, this move to ban books is a coordinated attack on students right to learn. this is a clear violation of free speech. that's why the aclu is working to fight against censorship in all its forms.

it is so important now more than ever. so please call or go to myaclu.org and become an aclu guardian of liberty, for just $19 a month. use your credit card and you'll get this special we the people t-shirt and more to show you're helping to protect the rights of all people. the aclu is in all 50 states, d.c. and puerto rico defending our first amendment right of free speech and all of your constitutional rights. because we the people, means all of us. so please, call or, go online to myaclu.org today. so you're going to have a very tough choice the day after you take the oath of office or

maybe even the day you take the oath of office, either pardon yourself or fire jack smith. which one will you do? >> it is so easy. i would fire him within two seconds. >> you can almost imagine him practicing that one, right? you're fired! it turns out he won't have a chance to do that. nbc news reports that special counsel jack smith and his team plan to resign before donald trump takes office. the 2024 election spelling the end of jack smith's cases against donald trump. the only question is nbc news puts is this, whether smith's final report detailing his charging decisions will ever be made public or be made public before inauguration day. the special counsel's office is required under department of justice regulations to provide a confident report to attorney general merrick garland who can choose to make it public. another break for us, we'll be right back. it public another break for us, we'll be right back w i have rinvoq. rinvoq is a once-daily pill that reduces the itch and helps clear the rash of eczema - fast. some rinvoq patients felt significant itch relief

as early as 2 days. some achieved dramatic skin clearance as early as 2 weeks. and many taking rinvoq saw clear or almost-clear skin. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal, cancers, including lymphoma and skin; heart attack, stroke, and gi tears occurred. people 50 and older with a heart disease risk factor have an increased risk of death. serious allergic reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. help heal your painful skin - disrupt the itch and rash of eczema. talk to your doctor about rinvoq. learn how abbvie can help you save.

your shipping manager left to "find themself." leaving you lost. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. sponsored jobs on indeed are two and a half times faster to first hire. visit indeed.com/hire ♪ ♪ ♪ something has changed within me ♪ ♪ it's time to try defying gravity ♪ ♪ ♪

. thank you so much for letting us too your homes and being on the journey with us. we are grateful. "the beat with ari melber" starts now. >> hi, nicolle. i will keep a mi