>> kentucky governor andy beshear who has earned a platform here. i appreciate it. thank you very much. >> thanks for having me. >> that does it for us on what was kind of a intense and brutal news day. protect your peace. take care of yourself. that's all-in. good evening. >> thank you for saying that. even though i'm not about to protect my peace for the next hour. we've got to repeat that for everybody who is out there following this. >> i was looking around all day, looking at my phone. don't love that. don't love that. don't love that. >> and also -- right. this is what it's like. look up at the sky when you're not looking at your phone, everybody. enjoy whatever the weather is.

>> it seems like for jack smith, that is a good call because the justice department is on track for some seismic change and jack smith would do well to get out now, today donald trump announced he plans to appoint congressman, matt gaetz. here was john bolton reacting to the nomination earlier today. >> it must be the worst nomination for a cabinet position in american history, i think this is something that falls well outside the scope of deference that should be given to the president in nominating members of the senior team, matt gaetz is not only incompetent for this job, he does not have the character, and that is notwithstanding how difficult it may be

politically, this is a nomination that the republican party should oppose.>> matt gaetz is many things, he has been one of the main deep state winch hunters, he has been tasked to lead the department of justice. >> jack smith right now is engaging in explicit election interference, he is the insurance policy except now they are trying to ensure that the trial occurs before the election.>> are you protecting the bidens? you won't answer the question about whether or not that is a shakedown, you come here and you launch this attack that is a conspiracy theory that there is coordinator welfare against trump. >> i don't care if it takes every second of our time and every ounce of our energy, we either get this government back on our side or we defund and get rid of, abolish the fbi, cdc, atf, doj, every last one

of them if they do not come to heal. and i don't think it is too much task. >> just to be clear, that last part was him literally calling to abolish the department he is being asked to oversee. matt gaetz is also a january 6 thruther. he was promoting baseless conspiracies of the capital right was instigated by the fbi and antifa. >> i don't know if the reports are true but to the washington times has just reported pretty compelling evidence from a facial recognition company showing that some of the people who breached the capital today were not trump supporters, and in fact were members of the violent terrorist group, antifa.

>> he is one of the primary defenders of the january 6 rioters. >> a critical feature of our gathering today is to better understand how people were treated in the follow along to january 6. >> we are here to expose the truth, to ask key questions about what happened on january 6, who animated the violence, the extent to which the federal government may have been involved. january 6th last year wasn't an insurrection but it very well may have been a fed- surrection.>> this does not go together, matt gaetz has been investigate by the justice department as a part of a probe

into his alleged sexual trafficking of a minor, he has denied any wrongdoing in the justice department, never charged with a crime but according to testimony before the january 6 committee, matt gaetz did try to wrangle himself a broad pardon in exchange for supporting trumps insurrection.>> and with representative gaetz requesting a pardon? >> i believe so, the pardon that he was discussing and requesting was as broad as you can describe, from the beginning of time until today, he mentioned nixon and i said nixon's pardon was never nearly that broad.>> all of that is who matt gaetz is and what makes him a particularly dangerous choice to be attorney general is that he does not care, he does not care what the consequences of his actions are, he does not care what anyone including his colleagues

thinks of him, he is willing to be reviled for personal gain, but that may also be the thing that prevents matt gaetz from being confirmed. as one former official told nbc news, matt lacks any substance and any understanding about the way department works , this is someone completely unprincipled, even if you are a diehard maga, you don't like this. his potential nomination has revealed what could be the first cracks in the forthcoming republican majority. here with lisa murkowski of alaska, a republican.>> i don't think it is a serious nomination for the attorney general, we need to have a serious attorney general, and i'm looking forward to the opportunity to consider somebody that is serious. this one, this one was not on my bingo card.>> senator susan collins of maine said this.>> i

was shocked that he has been nominated, if the nomination proceeds i'm sure that there will be an extensive background check by the fbi and public hearings and a lot of questions. >> there is very little reason to believe that republicans will stand up to trump on this or anything else, but voting to confirm congressman gaetz as the attorney general of the united states could be the biggest test of republican results we have seen yet . gaetz seems confident in his chances, tonight it was announced that he offered to resign from the house of representatives immediately so he could be placed in a special election before the next congress is seated. except that punch bowl news is

also reporting that the house ethics committee was set to vote friday on releasing a highly damaging report on its investigation into matt gaetz and the ethics committee loses its jurisdiction over gaetz when he leaves congress. joining me now, michael schmidt, investigative reporter at the new york times and msnbc national security contributor, and david road, author of where tyranny begins, the justice department, the fbi and the war on democracy. thank you both for being here on this extraordinary day. michael, let me first get your reaction to the nomination of matt gaetz to be the ag , i want to know how you are thinking about it.>> i was pretty surprised. i had covered the investigation of gaetz, the sexual trafficking investigation and there was something about that investigation that was always really serious that i'm not

sure everybody appreciated and that was that if he had been indicted, he would have faced a mandatory minimum of 10 years in prison. and that means that if he was convicted, the sentence he would have gotten, that the judge could not have wiggled out of unless something really extraordinary happened was that he was going to prison for 10 years. and that always made the stakes of the investigation really high and ultimately the department chose not to charge him, we don't really know why that was. we do know the woman in question was 17 at the time, the age under the law is 18, we don't know if that played any role in it, the fact that the age was so close and people speculated about that. but, to me, to have somebody that was facing down the justice department in such a serious way and such a serious investigation would have been really hard to wiggle out of, to then become the nominee to be the head of the justice department in just a short

period of time, it was only a year or two ago that the department ended the investigation into gaetz. the trump story never fails to surprise me. >> also, the investigation here seems to have been a turning point in terms of his own personal views and his anger at the deep state. this is something that affected him deeply. >> maybe but i was going back and rereading the stories, we have done a lot of stories in this investigation, the reason that matt gaetz connects with donald trump, in 2017, he is a freshman congressman going on fox news, railing against the mueller investigation, donald trump sees him and calls him. this is at the end of 2017. that is a feeder system. that is how john eastman, that is how he got onto donald

trump's radar. that is a fear into trumps world, and gaetz , for whatever you think of him, he knows how to exploit those types of things. that is the perfect way for someone like matt gaetz to have gotten on his radar and risen through the process, by becoming essentially his spokesman on capitol hill in many ways on the russian investigation. >> on the deep state which he may be considered the top of, what are your contacts saying, the anecdotal reporting that i have gotten has been somewhere between shock and horror. how are you hearing it? >> i was in the justice department before the announcement was made and things were somber, then after the announcement was made, a flood of messages expressing shock and dismay, but the career prosecutors who work

there for republican and democratic administrations are planning to stay. i think that even this announcement of gaetz as the nominee will cause them to double down. most people who have worked there for many years under both parties care deeply about the institution and they will stay and try to carry out their jobs, if they get asked to do something illegal, they will decline to do it. i spoke with at least one person who could face a criminal investigation, this was someone involved in one of the investigations of donald trump and this person said, i have done nothing wrong. there is no case they can bring against me. this person will be leading the department, they are a more senior official. so there's a bit of defiance and belief in the justice department and its principles, it is the most powerful law enforcement organization in the country and they will bring justice in a fair and balanced and nonpartisan way. it'll be a huge test if gaetz

is confirmed that that is the feeling among the workforce.>> his conversation with trump on trump force one this morning, as of today, had a major role in getting him named for ag this afternoon, people inside trumps operation tell me. and gaetz came out of left field. first of all, does that surprise you? and secondly, it is very clear that donald trump thinks the ag should be doing his bidding, you have published the memos that the white house counsel's office gave trump about the relationship between the president and his attorney general, what are your expectations? >> it is interesting, that goes along with the report that i had on this, which was they were considering j clayton

which had been the head of the cc under trump, and both of those considers are serious lawyers. and with someone who is not interested apparently in retribution and such, and it was my understanding that they wanted someone who was going to really move forward with their agenda and the names, the six or seven names that i heard, gaetz was not one of them and even after this morning, he was somebody they were still interested in. so when i heard gaetz today, because i had a list and i had been taking notes, he was not on the list. so, i don't know.>> this is the way we do business now.

david, is there hope that this may not even come to pass? even the new york times saying that joni ernst has expressed some amount of disbelief, john cornyn, there are a number of senate republicans, somewhere between an eye roll and headshake, inside the doj, is there hope that senate republicans do what is the better thing for the country and not confirm that gaetz ? >> yes, several people, there was a former fbi official saying that he was hoping he wouldn't be confirmed, but donald trump is immediately putting modern republicans under enormous pressure, this is the peak of his political capital, he has just won the house, so it is an enormous test, also concern from moderate senators about the defense secretary nominee who

wants to bar women from being in the military. it is a huge moment for washington, for these republican moderates and for trump, he's very good at this timing, he's very good at pushing people to bow to his demands. i guess i just want to see how it plays out, anything seems possible at this point.>> i don't think anybody wants to make guarantees. you know, there's this notion that part of the timing on this, that if this indeed came to pass, if friday was the day the house ethics committee was set to release its investigation into his conduct, does that add up, is it possible that this was such an extraordinarily important choice for our country, truly motivated by the whims of the conversation on trump force one and a congress manifested

interest in making sure damaging information did not come to light as a part of the house investigation? >> whenever there is a multidimensional game, it is usually whatever the simplest answer is possible, and if he is using the justice department and going after people, then matt gaetz is the logical person to do that, sometimes we can overthink a trump story, when he doesn't talk a lot, people start to say maybe he is whatever, but then he does something. let's just go back to what he said on the campaign trail, he said that he was going to seek retribution. i can't think of anyone who identifies with that mantra and that idea and doing what donald trump wants with the government and cleaning out the deep

state, then this person who essentially build their political career not just on being donald trump's advocate but advocate on this particular issue. so i think, as i was saying, we can overthink the story, we have to look at what is in front of us and what he does and says and maybe sometimes it's just that easy to understand.>> well, whatever happens, jack smith deciding to take a leap at this juncture really seems like a proven choice given the way the chips seem to be falling. thank you for your time and reporting tonight. we have a lot to get to this evening including a look at the man trump wants to oversee the purge of the pentagon. and today, president biden with the man who has threatened retribution and revenge with a friendly welcome back. more on that with his former

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♪ ♪ ♪ something has changed within me ♪ ♪ it's time to try defying gravity ♪ ♪ ♪ >> i look forward to having a smooth transition, doing everything we can to make sure you are accommodated with everything you need. welcome back.>> thank you very

much and politics is tough, and it is in many cases not a very nice world but it is a nice world today and i appreciate it very much.>> joe biden met with donald trump to discuss the incoming transition, a courtesy that donald trump did not extend to joe biden in 2020, trump appeared to be on his best behavior that he has made his intentions clear with numerous threats of prosecution and punishment of his political enemies including president biden and his son, hunter. that revenge is made more likely with his choice of cabinet members including today's nomination of congressman, matt gaetz as attorney general. joining me to discuss all of this is jen psaki , the former white house press secretary and now the host of the nbc show, inside with jen psaki. i know you have been there through these transitions and i know they are hard . walk me

through what you saw unfold in front of the fireplace, president biden saying welcome back to donald trump. >> the reason it looks so unfamiliar to everyone is because we have not seen that take place since barack obama invited donald trump eight years ago to the oval office, just two days after he defeated hillary clinton in the election because donald trump did not invite joe biden because he was busy planning an insurrection, planning fake electors, busy trying to challenge the outcome of the election, that is why it looks so unfamiliar. what i think i saw, and in some of the coverage today that is concerning to me and i think everybody should be clear about, is we can't normalize photos and moments and just forget about all of the context. that is why the context is so

important here, you just showed a bunch of headlines but the context, that is one moment sitting in the oval office which trump did not yell, he seemed to behave normally, that does not mean his plans have changed, it does not mean his plans to go after his political opponents have changed. but sitting here watching, that is what i was thinking about and contemplating. another thing i will mention, what is normal in transitions is not just this ceremonial meeting between the presidents which always happens between republicans and democrats, it's that the staff is working in lockstep on everything from national security issues, when we came and followed the bush team and the obama team, we were working on the financial crisis, and working on that together, that is what tells you whether this is a peaceful and smooth transition, more than one photo up.>> and i have

to understand that biden's goal is to reaffirm america's commitment to the peaceful transition of power and that is a broad, important thing for the institution of democracy. at the same time, this is someone that biden spent a fair amount of time saying he is ready to shrug the constitution and doesn't care about democracy, he is an ex- essential threat to democracy, it is hard to hear him say welcome back in that context. and i would imagine it is hard for staffers to be doing the jobs they are doing. on one hand they want to be the example of what a functioning democracy looks like but on the other hand, the person that is incoming, today's announcement that matt gaetz could be the attorney general signals a new chapter for this country and a real threat to our existence as a liberal democracy. do you think he is saying if trump is attempting to shrug

the constitution and democrats are trying to raise the alarm, a rational voter might ask, if this is also beyond the pale, why are you sitting so politely? >> with all due respect to jonathan and others, i have served in two presidents over three terms, the goal of any president should not be to go to the lowest denominator. i'm not saying that's what he was saying but the return to normalcy means returning to and showing people that there can be a peaceful transfer of power and that accepting and lowering yourself to the lowest denominator of what the other represents. i will say probably for joe biden, he wanted to punch a wall before and after that meeting. probably for every single staffer in that building, they felt the same way and it is much worse now but i remember feeling during the transition from obama to trump, like we were living double lives.

because you just felt viscerally like this person is a threat to the country and that is what every person in the white house feels right now and president obama was telling us, we have to treat them with grace and respect, offer them the binders we have made, make sure they know what to do. it does feel bad, it feels unfair, it feels all those things but it doesn't mean that any sitting president should not invite the next one or should just behave in the same manner they did before. joe biden should go to the inauguration, i'm sure he will.>> we have a picture, i was reminded, actually we must show the picture. because i remember this picture from the transition, yes, there it is, look who is dead center, that is you. of course i knew who you were but what i remember about this photo is there was somebody in

this photo, the day before trump comes to visit the white house, this is obama making remarks in the rose garden. going into this transition, it must be even harder for those people. >> yes, i didn't brush my hair or put on makeup, but i think what that showcases, in the hours before that photo, we had come into the white house and had a meeting with senior staff, members of the cabinet were getting teared up because they were worried about the impact not on barack obama's legacy, but they were thinking about on people's lives, right before that meeting, we had a meeting with our teams, the communications teams, people were crying because they were

from muslim american families, first-generation immigrants, members of the lgbtq+ community, it sounds cliche but it is true how people felt fear for their own lives and their way of living in that moment. and yes, the look on my face shows that the double life i was leading, right after that meeting the next day i had a lengthy meeting with hope hicks because president obama asked me to. and donald trump walked around and asked where the open workspace was and who would be staying. there are strange moments about that transition that will be replicated but it does remind me of how i think hard it must have been today for joe biden as much as i know why people are frustrated about what he said and also for all of the people sitting in that building. many of whom worked for him when he ran against him and won four years ago.>> is no better person to talk to them the

extraordinary jen psaki, thank you for your time. coming up, donald trump has picked pete hegseth to lead the u.s. military, we are going to look at his role in controversial pardons of accused war criminals, that is next, stay with us. with us [clears throat] sounds like you need to vaporize that sore throat. vapocool drops? it's sore throat relief with a rush of vicks vapors. ♪ vapocooooool ♪ whoa. vaporize sore throat pain with vicks vapocool drops. right now across the u.s., people are trying to ban books from public schools and public libraries. yes, libraries.

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>> the president may be

preparing pardons for servicemen accused of war crimes, this is something you have been on. >> first of all, i cannot stand those headlines, war crimes, these are guys that defended us, they are warriors who have been accused of certain things that are under review.>> that was pete hegseth, the fox news personality that donald trump picked to run the entire u.s. military. in 2019, he spent months personally lobbying trump to pardon multiple u.s. service members who have been accused of war crimes, the most famous was navy s.e.a.l. special operations chief, edward gallagher. his own platoon members accused him of war crimes including targeting civilians and gallagher was accused of stabbing a sedated 17-year-old captain to death with a hunting

knife. the new york times obtained videos of gallagher's platoon members explicitly describing the episode when interviewed by the navy.>> so, he's still alive, he was sedated and at that point in time, he probably wasn't going to die.>> gallagher comes on the scene with his medic back and pushes the kid on the ground while he checks them for wounds. right then, you can see a hand reach up and turn it off.>> what did you see gallagher do? >> all of a sudden, he started stabbing the dude.>> gallagher's platoon members accused him of taking photos with the 17-year-old corpse as if it was a hunting trophy.>> he was taking a group picture, he was like bring it in, bring it in, i was not getting in the

picture.>> gallagher was ultimately acquitted of charges except for the charge of taking a photo for which there was indisputable photographic evidence. after the verdict, gallagher was incredibly specific about who had helped him. >> i want to say thank you to fox news, for being with us from day one.>> thank you fox news, thank you, pete. months later, gallagher had all the more reason to think pete hegseth. >> president trump intervening on behalf of three u.s. service members convicted of war crimes, the president issued pardons to these army officers and restored the rank of a navy s.e.a.l., eddie gallagher.>> president trump himself had intervened to reverse the navy's decision to demote gallagher. it was a scandal even inside the military, jeffrey goldberg

reported in the atlantic, the chairman of the chief of staff tried to talk trump out of it, millie trying to convince trump that his intrusion was hurting navy morale, mr. president, we have military ethics and laws about what happens in battle. we can't do that kind of thing, it is a war crime. trump said he didn't understand the big deal. the reporter who covered the saga for the new york times described the impact of the acquittal inside the navy.>> what is the gallagher affect? in some ways it is very real and it has already happened, after he was acquitted, the navy prosecutors in san diego looked at the cases of some of its friends who were also facing charges for killing people overseas, and just dropped the cases. >> when they first broke the story that pete hegseth was lobbying trump to pardon accused war criminals including

gallagher, they spoke with people who explained why pete hegseth wanted to get involved, those people said that he strongly views current rules of engagement as too restrictive and that restrictive nature sets the troops up for failure and to be unfairly branded as criminals or monsters in combat zones. now, donald trump wants that man, who thinks we are too hard on potential war criminals and who thinks the established rules of conduct are still too strict, trump wants him to lead the united states military, and the wall street journal is reporting that trump's team is considering purging all of the generals he deems too woke. we will have more coming up next. up next

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and with the right help, i can make this place i love even better. earn up to 5% cash back on business essentials with the chase ink business cash card from chase for business. we have a great military and we have a military that is not woke, you may have a few people on top that are woke and we are going to get rid of them so fast your head is going to spin. >> trumps transition team is mulling over how trump might purge the pentagon, ideas include a draft executive order that establishes a warrior board that could effectively fast-track the removal of generals and admirals found to be lacking in requisite leadership qualities. among the men that trump's approves of his attempt>> apparently pete hegseth, the

man who has gone to the mat for accused war criminals. joining me now is homeland security secretary, i'm so eager to get your thoughts, first of all, pete hegseth, defense secretary, what is your reaction to that customer>> well, in contrast to one or two of the other nominees who were announced, i tend to want to give him the benefit of the doubt because here's someone who is highly educated, could have a career on wall street, chose to put on a uniform and to combat, so i give him the benefit of the doubt. the job of secretary of defense which i observed up close when i was general counsel is, if you are the ceo of the government's largest cabinet

department and most complex, you are in the war fighting chain of command and you are responsible for the welfare and well-being of over 1 million servicemembers and that is not easy, you don't necessarily acquire those skills, with all due respect, bebe -- being a cable news host. so i believe that the senate has a major responsibility here. it is constitutional prerogative to advise with respect to this nominee, with respect to matt gaetz most certainly and there are republican senators who i know and respect and i'm counting on them to do their jobs, people like joni ernst, lindsey graham, john cornyn, chuck grassley, these are people who i believe take their constitutional prerogatives, i

think the nominee for secretary of defense, his stated views should be carefully examined, his defense of war criminals perhaps. you know, on that point, alex, here's why it is so important that we have a military code of conduct, we have military justice. u.s. military is the most powerful, the greatest military on earth because of our power, but also because we observe the rules. we have a rule of law in the military that is narrow deep in the training of every officer to excuse a violation of the rules, to excuse war crimes is a major setback. it is a blow, it violates everything that is part of, a fundamental part of training of

any officer, of any enlisted member of the u.s. military, so that is in my opinion as someone who used to be the senior legal official of that department, one of the things that make our military the greatest on the earth, they observe the rules and they are taught to observe the rules.>> what about the warrior barge, the idea that there's going to be some new trump body that vets generals and admirals? >> there is already a process of doing exactly that, in the selection of three and four stars, unlike the selection promotion of one and two start general officers, when you get to that three or four star level, you have been evaluated by the secretary of that service, the secretary of defense for a specific command position and there's a lot of vetting and scrutiny that goes into that process and the backstop to that is again,

senate confirmation. and in my years working with the military, alongside a lot of three and four stars in the pentagon, i never asked for her political views, they never expressed their political views, i didn't care about their political views, it is simply, what is my mission, give me the tools to train and execute on the mission. that is what makes our military great, and are there some who probably have political views? most certainly but in the military environment, day in and day out, it is not expressed. this warrior board frankly, i'm sure, will be seen by the community, as having the feel and smell of a litmus test. are you with the program or not? and there are adequate screens for how we evaluate leadership skills for people in the military that have worked for

decades.>> it all feels like a litmus test right now, it is a real question about whether we are going to be able to keep the country safe. it is great to have your perspective on this, thank you for joining me tonight, i really appreciate your time. coming up, senate republicans elected a new leader today and he was not donald trump's preferred choice, how much backbone we might expect from the incoming majority, we are going to assess that coming up next. up next . woah, a lost card isn't keeping this thrill seeker down. lost her card, not the vibe. the soul searcher, is finding his identity, and helping to protect it. hey! oh yeah, the explorer! she's looking to dive deeper... all while chase looks out for her. because these friends have chase. alerts that help check. tools that help protect. one bank that puts you in control. chase. make more of what's yours. we shall overcome. we shall overcome.

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>> what we're going to do is make sure that we are processing his nominees in a way that gets them into it. how that happens remains to be seen. >> new senate majority leader john thune incoming next year today seemed fairly open to trump's idea of bypassing the cabinet picks by using recess

appointments. is that how this is going down? joining me, chief of staff to john fedderman. john thune sounds like he's cool with it. that seems to be the only way to get matt gaetz confirmed as attorney general. >> he did sound cool in theory. i think john thune might have thought twice about that openness to recess appointments after that announcement. i do think the only way matt gaetz will become attorney general is by a recess appointment. i don't think he can get the votes to be confirmed through regular order. what trump did was raise the stakes of that idea of he recess appointments. they know what the stakes are. if they give him that power, what they are doing in effect is to give him the power to appoint people like matt gaetz. >> they're giving away their

role of advise and consent. he said demanding senate republicans back is the 2024 version of forcing sean spicer to say it was the largest inauguration crowd ever. these aren't just appointments. they're loyalty tests. the absurdity is the point. that seems right to me. >> absolutely. you're absolutely right. it is about loyalty. this is about forcing his followers to defend the indefensible and we'll see what they do. from an institutional perspective, confirming nominees is something that only the senate does. the house has no role in that process. it is part of the senate's special responsibility. if the senate republicans decide to just cede that responsibility entirely by giving trump the power to do recess appointments, he's made clear, it is something in the past were used for special circumstances where a post really needed to be filled under an emergency or something like that. no president has ever used the

recess appointment's power to just fill his cabinet. that is what trump has made clear he's going to do. that is a complete bypass. senate's advise and consent responsibility. if they give minimum appointment, they're not just letting him fill one post here and there in an emergency situation. they say we are ceding our power of responsibility of advise and consent to you, donald trump, our leader. so that's a big test for them and certainly a big test for the brand new senate majority leader, john thune. >> do you read anything into the fact that senate republicans elected john thune over the pick, rick scott, who was undoubtedly more maga? let's not suggest he's more centrist. do you think that both anything good? >> john thune is an interesting character in senate history. he won his seat in 2004 by knocking off tom dashle in what

was seen as a major victory for this new can you be frontational style of politics. that was 20 years ago. that style of politics has gotten much more confrontational since then. he's not some institutionalist but he is more of one than rick scott. i think the senate majority leader rick scott would have rolled over immediately to give trump any power he wants. thune in theory is supposed to be the leader who is more protective of senate republicans' prerogatives as independent representatives, as senators entrusted with the advise and consent responsibility. this is a test for him. if he just rolls over for trump, he might as well have elected rick scott. >> it is a test for them and our democracy. thank you for joining me tonight, my friend. great to have your perspective on this one. that's our show for tonight. now it is time for "the last word." >> i want to second