but the other thing is that they knew the next day i would be announcing new jobs, i will be opening a new health care clinic, that i would be laser focused on all of those core issues that they said whether i agree or disagree with everything, he is working his tail off to try to make my life a little bit better. to make sure i can do for my kids next prescription and put food on the table. that while inflation is tough right now. i can see a better day and i can see the people are really working on trying to create that better day. >> kentucky governor andy beshear who is on the platform. i appreciate it. thank you. we've got to repeat that

for everybody who is out there following this. >> i was looking around all day, looking at my phone, don't love that, don't love that, don't love that. >> also, here we go, this is what it is like. look up at the sky and not at your phone, everybody. enjoy whatever the weather is. have a good night. today we learned that special counsel jack smith is preparing to leave the justice department before donald trump, the man he has spent several years investigating takes office. it seems like for jack smith, that is probably a good call because the justice department is on track for some seismic change and jack smith will do well to get out now. today, donald trump announced that he plans to appoint congressman matt gaetz to be the next attorney general of the united states. he was trump's former national security advisor. john bolton back reacting to the

nomination earlier today. >> it must be the worst nomination for a cabinet position in american history. i think this is something that falls well outside the scope of deference that should be given to a president and nominated members of a senior team. gaetz is not only totally incompetent for this job, he doesn't have the character, he is a person of moral turpitude, and notwithstanding how difficult it may be politically, this is the nomination the republican party should oppose. >> now, matt gaetz is a lot of things. for the past four years, gaetz, a republican from florida has been one of trump's main, deep state which hunters, relentlessly attacking the department of justice he has not been tapped to lead. >> jack smith right now is engaging in explicit election interference. he is the insurance policy, except now, they are trying to ensure that the trial occurs before the election. >> are you protecting the biden

family? >> absolutely not. >> you will not answer the question about whether or not that is a shakedown. you launched this attack that it is a conspiracy theory that there is coordinated warfare against trump. i don't care if it takes every second of our time and every ounce of our energy, we either get this government back on our side, or we defund and get rid of, abolish the fbi, cdc, atf, doj, every last one of them if they do not come to heal. and i don't think it's too much to ask. >> just to be clear, that last part was matt gaetz literally calling to abolish the department he is being asked to oversee. matt gaetz is also a january 6th truther. as early as january 6, 2021,

the actual day of the insurrection, gaetz is promoting baseless conspiracies that the capitol riot was instigated by the fbi and antifa. >> i don't know if the reports are true, but the "washington times" has just reported some pretty compelling evidence from a facial recognition company showing the people who breached the capital today were not trump's supporters, they were masquerading as trump's supporters and in fact were members of the violent terrorist group, antifa. >> he is one of primary defenders of the january 6th rioters, and has held hearings alleging the mistreatment of the january 6th offenders. >> the criminal feature of our gathering today is to better understand how people were treated in the follow along to january 6th. >> we are here to expose the truth, to ask me questions about what happened on january 6, who animated the violence, the extent to which the federal government may have been

involved. we know this, january 6th last year wasn't an insurrection, but it very well may have been a. >> fed-surrectionsjanuary truther, insurrectionist ally, head of the department of justice? these things do not usually go together. nor does this. gaetz has also been investigated by the justice department as a part of a probe into his alleged sex trafficking of a minor. gaetz has denied any wrongdoing in the justice department never charged him with a crime , but according to testimony before the january 6th committee, gaetz did try to wrangle himself a broad pardon in exchange for supporting trump's insurrection. >> and with representative gaetz requesting a pardon ? >> i believe so. the pardon that he was disgusting, requesting was brought as you can describe, from the beginning of time up

until today for any and all things. he mentioned nixon. i said nixon's pardon was never nearly that broad. >> all of that is who matt gaetz is. what makes him such a particular dangerous choice to be trump's attorney general is that matt gaetz does not care. he does not care what the consequences of his actions are , he does not care what anyone, including his colleagues, thinks of him. he is willing to be reviled for personal gain. that may also be the thing that prevents matt gaetz from being confirmed. as one former doj official told nbc news, matt lacks any substance and any understanding about the way the department works. this is someone completely unprincipled, even if you are diehard maga, you don't like this. to that end, gaetz's potential nomination has revealed what

could be the first cracks in the forthcoming republican majority. here with senator lisa murkowski of alaska, a republican. >> i don't think it is a serious nomination for the attorney general. we need to have a serious attorney general, and i am looking forward to the opportunity to consider somebody that is serious. this one, this one was not on my bingo card. >> senators susan collins of maine, also a republican, said this. >> i was shocked that he has been nominated. if the nomination proceeds, i'm sure there will be an extensive background check by the fbi and public hearings and a lot of questions. >> now, there is very little reason to believe that republicans will stand up to this, or really anything else. but voting to confirm congressman gates as the attorney general as of the

united states could be the biggest test of republican resolve that we have seen yet. for his part, gaetz seems confident in his chances . tonight, house speaker micah johnson announced that congressman gaetz has offered to resign from the house of representatives immediately so that he can be replaced in a special election before the next congress is seated, which, i don't know, kind of considerate of matt gaetz. except that punch bowl news is also reporting tonight that the house ethics committee was set to vote friday on releasing a highly damaging report on its investigation into matt gaetz, and that the ethics committee loses its jurisdiction over gaetz when he leaves congress. joining me now are michael schmidt, investigative reporter at the "new york times", and nbc national security contributor, and david rose, national security editor and author of "where tyranny begins the justice department, the fbi, and war on democracy."

, guys, thank you both for being here on this extraordinary newsday. michael, let me first get your reaction to the nomination of matt gaetz to be ag. you have done extensive reporting with the just justice department, i want to hear how you are thinking about that. >> i was pretty surprised. i had covered the investigation of gaetz, the sex trafficking investigation. there was something about that investigation that was always really serious that i am not sure everyone appreciated. that was that, if he had been indicted, he would have faced a mandatory minimum of 10 years in prison. that means that if he was convicted, the sentence he would have gotten that the judge could not have wiggled out of, unless something really extraordinary happened, was that he was going to prison for 10 years. that always made the stakes of the investigation really, really high. ultimately, the department chose not to charge him. we don't really know why that was.

we do know the woman in question was 17 at the time, the age under the law is 18. we don't know if that played any role in it, the fact that the h was so close, some people speculated about that. but to me, to have someone that was facing down the justice department in such a serious way, in such a serious investigation in which it would have been really, really hard to wiggle out of, to then become the nominee to be the head of the justice department in just a short period of time, it was only a year or two ago that the department ended its investigation into gaetz. you know, the trump story never fails to surprise me. >> and also, the investigation here seems to have been a turning point in terms of matt gaetz's own personal views and his anger at the deep state. this is something that affected him deeply. >> maybe. i was actually going

back and rereading some of the stories. we had done a lot of stories on gaetz and this investigation. the reason matt gaetz connects to donald trump is that, in 2017, he is a freshman congressman, going on fox news, railing against the molar investigation. donald trump sees him and called him. this is at the end of 2017. that is how-- that is a feeder system. that is how john eastman, the lawyer from january 6, the legal theorist, that is how he got onto donald trump's radar. >> audition tape. >> that is a fear into trump's world. whatever you think of gaetz, knows how to exploit those types of. that is the perfect way for someone like matt gaetz to have gotten on donald trump's radar and risen to the process. becoming essentially his spokesman on capitol hill in many ways on the russian investigation. >> on the deep state, which he

is now considered top of. david, what are your contacts inside the department of justice saying? the anecdotal reporting i have gotten has been somewhere between shock and horror. how are you hearing it? >> i was in the justice department today before the announcement was made, and things were already somewhat somber. after the announcement was made, a flood of messages expressing shock and dismay. but the career prosecutors who worked there for republican and democratic administrations are planning to stay. i think that even in this announcement of gaetz as a nominee will cause them to double down. most people who have worked there for many, many years, again, under both parties, care deeply about the institution and they will stay and try to carry out their jobs. if they get asked to do something illegal, they will decline to do it. i spoke with at least one person who could face terminal investigation. this was on

involved in one of the investigations of donald trump. this person said, i have done nothing wrong. there is no case that they can bring against me. this person will be leaving the department. they are a more senior official. there is a bit of defiance and a bit of belief in the justice department's principles. again, the most powerful law enforcement agency in the country, that they will merit and bring out justice in a fair, balanced, and nonpartisan way. it will be a huge test if gaetz is confirmed. that is at least the feeling among the work and the justice department. >> michael, there is some reporting from axios about how matt gaetz landed his nomination. matt gaetz's conversation with trump on trumped forth one this morning, as in today, wednesday morning, had a major role in getting the name for ag this afternoon, people inside

trump's operation tell me. the transition team started betting ag candidates before the election and gaetz came out of left field. first of all, does that surprise you? secondly, it is very clear that donald trump thinks the ag should be doing his bidding. published some of the memos that the white house counsel office gave trump about the relationship between a president and his attorney general. what is your expectation in terms of the relationship between these two men? >> it is interesting. that goes along with the reporting i had on this, which is that, they were considering jake layton, who had been the head of the sec under trump, and a new york lawyer named bob joe for, who in both of those people are considered serious lawyers, especially bob, who comes from a fancy law firm here in new york and was someone who was not interested, apparently in retribution and such. it was my understanding that they wanted someone who is going to go in and really move forward with their agenda. the names, the six or seven names that i heard, gaetz was

not one of them. even up until this morning, bob was someone that they were still interested in, talking to, or talking about. when i heard gaetz today, because i had a list-- >> just like lisa murkowski, he was not on your bingo card. >> he was not on the list. so, i don't know. >> this is the way we do business now, announced: truth is social. david, is there hope that this may not actually come to pass? i'm thinking of the murkowski and collins of the world. even the "new york times" saying has expressed some amount of disbelief, john cornyn, these are all republicans, chuck grassi, these are a number of senators who are somewhere between an eye roll and a handshake. inside the doj, is there hope that senate republicans what is the better thing for the

country and not confirm matt gaetz to be a gq marked >> several people. there was a former fbi official that said, they just hope he will not be confirmed to me but what donald trump is doing is immediately putting moderate republicans under enormous pressure. this is the peak of his political capital. he has just won the house, the trifecta republicans have wanted for so long. it is an enormous test. there are also concerns about the defense secretary nominee who wants to borrow women from being in the military. it is a huge moment for washington, for these republican moderates, and for trump. he's very good at this kind of timing very good at pushing people to bow to him, bowed to his demands. we will see what happens. i just want to see what plays out. i don't want to make any guarantees, anything seems

possible at this point. >> i don't think anyone wants to make guarantees, including the senate reputations are on the line here. you know, michael, there is this notion that part of the timing on this, if this indeed came to pass on trumped forth one this morning, if today was the day, the house ethics committee was sent to it release an investigation into misconduct, does that add up, is it possible that this was a motive, such an extraordinarily important choice for our country, truly motivated by the whims of a conversation on trump force one, and a congressman's and vested interest in making sure damaging information did not come to light as a part of a house investigation? >> whenever there is an idea that trump and his folks are playing multidimensional games, they are usually not. it is usually whatever the simplest answer is as possible. if you believe what donald trump said on the campaign trail about using the justice department, going after people, then matt gaetz is the logical person to do that. sometimes, we can overthink the trump story

and when trump does not talk a lot like he has in the past few days, you can say, he is whatever. when he does something and you see-- let's just go back to what he said on the campaign trail. he said on the campaign trail, he would seek retribution. i can't think of anyone who identifies with that mantra and that idea in doing what donald trump wants with the government and cleaning out the deep state, and this person was actually built their political career, not just one being donald trump's advocate, but advocate on this particular issue. so, i think that-- as i was saying, we can over think the trump search, but we have to look at what is in front of us, what he does and says, and maybe sometimes it is just that easy to understand. >> well, whatever happens, jack smith deciding to take leave of

the justice department at this juncture certainly seems like a prudent choice, given the way the chips thing to be falling. michael should schmidt, and david rose, thank you for your time tonight. appreciate it. we have a lot to get to this evening, including the man president-elect trump reportedly wants to oversee the purge of the pentagon. today, president biden met with the man threatening retribution and revenge with a friendly, welcome back. more on that with biden's former press secretary and my great colleague, jim saki. coming up next. next.

drop everything and get some magic of your own during the xfinity black friday sale. xfinity internet customers, our best deals of the year are back! switch to xfinity mobile and get your choice of a free 5g phone, plus your next unlimited line free for a year. get amazing savings and connect to wifi speeds up to a gig on the go with xfinity mobile. fly don't walk to get our best deals of the year. connect to the world of wicked this holiday,

only in theaters november 22nd. and looking forward to having, like we said, smooth transition, do everything we can to make sure you are accommodated, have what you need. hopefully, we can get a chance to talk about some of that today. welcome. >> thank you very much.

politics is tough, and in many cases, not a very nice world, but it is a nice world today, and i appreciate it very much. >> today, president joe biden met with president-elect donald trump to discuss the incoming transition, a courtesy, by the way, donald trump did not extend to joe biden in 2020. trump appeared to be on his best behavior, but trump has made his intentions clear here, with numerous threats and prosecution of his political enemies, including president biden and his son, hunter. that revenge is made all the more likely with trump's choice of cabinet members, including today's nomination of congressman matt gaetz as attorney general. joining me now to discuss all of this is jenna saki, president biden's former white house secretary, and now the course of the smash hit show, inside with jim saki. i was thinking about you today, because i know you have been inside these transitions, and

they are hard. walk me through what you saw unfold there in front of the fireplace, president biden singh, welcome back to donald trump. >> the reason it looks so unfamiliar to everyone, is because we have not seen that take place since barack obama invited donald trump eight years ago to the oval office, just two days after he defeated hillary clinton in the election, because donald trump did not invite joe biden. as we now know, he was busy planning an insurrection, planning fake electors, busy trying to challenge the outcome of the election. that is why it looks so unfamiliar. now what i think i saw, and some of the coverage today that is concerning to me, and i think everyone should be clear about, is we can't normalize photos and moments, and just kind of forget about all of the context. that is why the context is so important here. you showed a bunch of headlines . the context here, that is one

moment sitting in the oval office, in which trump did not yell, he did not answer questions, he seemed to behave semi-normally. that does not mean his plans have changed. it does not mean his plans to after his political opponents have changed. we do not know that. sitting here watching, that is what i was thinking about and contemplating. the other thing i would mention, alex, what is normal in transitions is not this ceremonial meeting between the presidents, which always happens between republicans and democrats, democrats to republicans, et cetera, this is lockstep on everything from national security issues, to i remember when we came in and followed the listing, the obama team did, we were working on financial crisis that is really what tells you whether this is a peaceful and smooth and effective transition, more than one photo op. >> i've got to say, and i understand that biden's goal here is to reaffirm america's commitment to the peaceful transfer of power, i know that

is a big, broad-- you know, an important thing for the institution of democracy. at the same time, jen, this is someone that biden spent a fair amount of time saying, is getting ready to shred the constitution, and does not care about democracy. himself is an existential threat to democracy. it is hard to hear him say, welcome back in that context, right? i would imagine it is hard for staffers to be doing the jobs they are doing. on one hand, they want to be an example of what auctioning democracy looks like, on the other hand, the person coming in, staff coming, today's announcement that matt gaetz could be the attorney general signals a new chapter for this country, and a real threat to our existence as a liberal democracy. do you think, you know, jonathan the last, who i am prone to quote a lot is saying, if trump is attempting to shred the constitution, and democrats trying to raise the alarm, a

rational person might ask, if this is beyond the pale, why are you sitting politely? do you think there is any merit to that? i know this is tough, because you respect biden for what he is trying to do. >> with all due respect to him and others, i've served two presidents over two terms. the goal of any president should not be to go to the lowest common denominator. i am not saying that is what he was saying. a return to normalcy remains a return to normalcy and a return to showing people that there can be a peaceful transference of power, not accepting the lowest denominator of what the other proposes court but the other represents. i would say, probably for joe biden, he wanted to punch a wall before and after that meeting, right, probably for every single staffer in that building, they felt the same way. it is much worse now than eight years ago, but i remember feeling during the transition from obama to trump, like we were living double lives is my best way of describing it.

because you just felt viscerally like this person is a threat to the country. that is what every person in the white house now feels at every level. president obama was telling us, we have to treat them with grace and respect, offer them the binders we've made, make sure they know what to do with marine one lands. he does feel bad. it feels achy, it feels unfair, it feels all of those things, but he does not mean that any sitting president should not invite the next one, or should just behave in the same manner they did before. joe biden should go to the inauguration, i am sure he will . >> we have a picture, actually, i was reminded about how gut wrenching-- we must show the picture. i remember this picture from the transition, yes, there it is. look who is dead center, it is you. of course i knew who you were, but what i remember about this photo is a woman-- i just knew in my lizard brain there is someone in this photo that looks like ashen, and it is

you, dead center, the day before trump comes to visit the white house and meet with obama. this is president obama making remarks in the rose garden. i mean, you know the visceral repulsion, and going into this transition, it must be even harder for those people working inside the white house. >> just know, i had not slept. i look ashen because i did not brush my hair. >> that is not what i meant. >> i do have a little hermione granger vied vibe before that. i think what that showcases, in the hours before that photo, we all come into the white house, had a mean you're with senior staff with members of the cabinet getting teared up, because they were worried about the impact, not on barack obama's legacy, no one was thinking about that at the moment. they were thinking about people's lives. right before that, we had a meeting with our teams, the communication and press teams, people were

crying. they were from muslim american families, first-generation immigrants, members of the lgbtq plus community. it sounds cheesy and clichi, but it is absolutely true how people felt fear for their own lives and their way of living in that moment. that is what that followed. and yes, the look on my face shows the double life i was leading. right after that meeting, the next day, i had a lengthy meeting with hope hicks, because president obama asked me to, and donald trump walked around the white house and asked where the open workspace was and who would be staying. there are strange moments about the transition that must be replicated, but it does remind me of how i think how hard it must have been today for joe biden, as much as i know why people are frustrated by what he said, also for all of the people sitting in that building, many of whom worked for him when he ran against and won four years ago. an extraordinarily resilient

jen psaki. thank you. coming up, donald trump has picked fox news host pete exit to run the u.s. military. we will look at netanyahu's role in pardons of accused war criminals. that is next. stay with us. new vaseline ray lotion with 1% niacinamide. level up to even toned skin.

the president may be preparing pardons for servicemen accused of war crimes

. >> first of all, i can't stand that headline, accused of war crimes. these are men who went into the most dangerous places on earth with a job to defend us and made tough calls on a moments notice. they are not war criminals, they are warriors who have now been accused of certain things that are under review. >> that was pete hegseth, the fox news personality that donald trump just picked to run the entire u.s. military. back in 2019, hegseth reportedly spent months personally lobbying trump to pardon multiple u.s. service members who had been accused of war crimes, the most famous of whom was navy s.e.a.l. special operations chief edward gallagher. gallagher's own platoon members accused him of war crimes, including targeting civilians, and most dramatically, dellinger was accused of stabbing a sedated 17-year-old captive to death with a hunting knife. the "new york times" obtained videos of dellinger's platoon members explicitly describing

the episode when interviewed by the navy. >> so he is still alive? >> year, he is still alive, not sedated. at that point in time, he probably wasn't going to die. >> gallagher comes on the scene with his medic bag and pushes the kid down on the ground while he checks them for wounds . right there, you can see a hand reached up and turn off the cam. >> what did you actually see gallagher to? >> all of a sudden, he starts stabbing the dude. i see him playing with the knife sitting at his neck. >> gallagher's platoon members also accuse him of taking photos with the 17-year-old's corpse as if it was a hunting trophy. >> he was taking a group picture, getting get in this [ bleep ] picture. we are not getting in the [ bleep ] picture. >> yeah, the body is right there. >> very controversially,

gallagher was acquitted of all charges, except for the charge of taking that photo, in which there was indisputable graphic evidence. after the photo, gallagher was incredibly specific about who had helped him. >> i want to say thank you to you, fox news, to you guys, pete, for being with us from day one. >> take you fox news, thank you, pete, as in hegseth. months later, gallagher had all the more reason to thinking pete hegseth. >> president trump intervening of those convicted of war crimes. they issued pardons to matthew goldstein and quentin lorentz and restore the right of navy s.e.a.l. eddie gallagher. >> not only had gallagher been acquitted, but president trump himself had intervened to reverse the navy's decision to demote gallagher. it was a scandal even inside the military. jeffrey goldberg reported in the atlantic, that trump's chairman of the joint chiefs of

staff had tried to truck talk trump out of it. millie try to convince trump that his intrusion was hurting navy morale. mr. president, we have military ethics and laws about what happens in battle. we can't do that kind of thing. it is a war crime. trump said, he didn't understand a big deal. the reporter who covered gallagher's saga for the "new york times" described the impact of the acquittal inside the navy. >> what's the gallagher effect? well, in some ways, it is very real and it has already happened . after he was acquitted, the navy prosecutors in san diego looked at the cases of some of his friends who were also facing charges for killing people overseas and just dropped the cases. >> when "the daily beast" first brought the story that fox news's pete hegseth was lobbying trump to pardon were criminals, including gallagher, they spoke with wife hegseth

might have wanted to get involved. those people said that hegseth strongly views current rules of engagement as too restrictive and that restrictive nature sent that u.s. troops up for failure and to be unfairly branded as criminals or monsters in combat zones. now, donald trump wants that man , who thinks we are too hard on potential war criminals, and who thinks that the established rules of combat are too strict, trump want that man to lead the united states military. did i mention that "the wall street journal" is now reporting that trump's team is considering purging all of the generals he deems too woke? we will have more on all of this coming up next. next.

we have a great military. and we have a military that is not woke. you may have a people on the top that is not woke, and we will get rid of them so damn fast, your head will spin. >> trump's transition team is mulling over how trump might purge the pentagon. ideas include having executive order will establish a warrior board, which could effectively pass track the removal of generals and admirals found to be lacking in requisite leadership qualities. among the men exhibiting leadership qualities that trump's approves of is apparently fox news personality pete hegseth, the man he has chosen to lead the u.s. military, secretary of defense, and the man who has gone to the vet for accused were criminals.

joining me now is former homeland secretary under obama, who also served as the general counsel to department of defense. it is so great to see you here. i am eager to get your thoughts. >> things for having me. so much to talk about. >> pete hegseth, defense secretary, what is your reaction to that? >> well, in contrast to one or two of the other nominees who were announced, i tend to want to give him the benefit of the doubt because, here is someone who is highly educated, could have had a career on wall street, chose to put on the uniform of our country and do combat. i give him that benefit of the doubt. the job of secretary of defense, which i observed up close when i was general counsel, is-- you are the ceo of the government's largest cabinet department and most complex. you are in the war fighting chain of command, and responsible for the welfare and being of over 1 million servicemembers.

that's not easy. you don't necessarily acquire those skills being-- with all due respect, being a cable news host. >> yes, i'm not trying to be the secretary of defense. >> i believe the senate has a major, major responsibility here. it is constitutional prerogative to advise with consent to this nominee, with respect to matt gaetz, most certainly, and there are people, there are republican senators who i know and respect and i am counting on them to do their jobs. people like joni ernst, lindsey graham, bill cassidy, john kiernan, john hoven, chuck grassley, the most senior member. these are people who, i believe, take their constitutional prerogatives to advise with care. i think the nominee for secretary of defense, he is views, his date of views on fox and elsewhere should be carefully examined. >> is defense for war

criminals, perhaps? >> his defense for were criminals, perhaps. on that point, alex, here is why it is so important that we have a military code of conduct we have military justice. the u.s. military is the most powerful, the greatest military on earth because of our power, but also because we observe the rules. we have a rule of law in the military that is marrow deep in the training of every officer to excuse a violation of the rules, to excuse war crimes is a major setback. it is a blow. it violates everything that is a fundamental part of the training of any officer, of any enlisted member of the u.s. military. so, that is, in my opinion as someone who used to be the senior legal official of that

department, one of the things that makes our military the greatest military on earth. they observed the rules and are taught to observe the rules. >> what about the warrior board, the idea that there will be some kind of new trump sort of body that bets vets generals and admirals to which they conform with trump's ideas about the world? >> there already is a process for doing exactly that in the selection of three and four stars. unlike the selection and promotion of one and two star generals and flag officers, when you get to the three and four star level, you are being evaluated by the chief of staff of that service, the secretary of that service, secretary of defense for a specific position, a specific command position. and there is a lots of venting and scrutiny that goes into that process and the backstop to that is again, senate confirmation. in my years working with the military, alongside a lot of three and four stars at the pentagon, i never asked their

political views to me they never expressed their political views, i didn't know their political views, i did not care about their political views. it is simply, what is my mission? give me the tools to train and execute on the mission. that is what makes our military grade. i mean, there are some who probably have political views, most certainly. but in the military environment , day in, day out, it is not expressed. is warrior board, frankly, i'm sure, will be seen by the community as it has the feel and the smell of a litmus test. are you with the program or not? and they are accurate screens for how we evaluate leadership skills for people in the military that have worked for decades. >> it all feels like a litmus test right now. in the process, it is a question of, whether we will

actually be able to keep the country safe. secretary johnson, it is great to have your perspective on all of this. thank you for joining me tonight. appreciate the time. >> thanks for having me. >> coming up, senate republicans elected a new leader today. he was not donald trump's choice. how much backbone can we expect from the incoming authority? we discussed that with adam jensen, next. jensen, next.

(tony hawk) i still love to surf, snowboard, and of course, skate, so i take qunol magnesium to support my muscle and bone health. qunol's high-absorption magnesium glycinate helps me get the full benefits of magnesium. qunol. the brand i trust.

you said that recess appointments are on the table. that's the key from president- elect donald trump. >> what we will do is make sure that we are processing his nominees in a way that gets them into those positions so they can implement his agenda. how that happens remains to be seen. >> new senate majority leader john thune, and coming next year, seems fairly open about bypassing senate approval of cabinet picks by using recess appointments. is that how this is going to go down? joining me now is former chief of staff to senators john fetterman and harry reid. adam, help me understand what is happening here.

john thune sounds like he is cool with recess appointments, which seems to be the only way you get matt gaetz confirmed as attorney general . do you think that is what is going to happen here? >> that is right, he did sound cool with it in theory, but that quote was before matt gaetz was announced for attorney general and i think john thune might have thought twice a about the openness to recess appointments after that. i do think the only way matt gaetz will come attorney general is by a recess appointment. i don't think he can get the votes to be confirmed through regular order. what trump did was raise the stakes of that idea of recess appointments. senate republicans now know what the stakes are here. if they give him that power, what they are doing in effect is to give him the power to appoint people like matt gaetz. >> well, they are giving away their role as advise and consent. i am with ezra klein on this. he says, demanding senate republicans back gaetz as ag and hegseth as defense secretary

is the 2024 version of forcing sean spicer to say, it was the largest inauguration crowd ever. these aren't just appointments. >> absolutely. you are absolutely right. it is about loyalty. this is about forcing his followers to defend the indefensible, and see what they do. from an institutional perspective, confirming remedies is something that only the senate does, the house has no role in that process. it is a part of the senate's special responsibility. if the senate republicans decide to see that responsibility entirely by giving trump the power to do recess appointments, and he has made it clear-- you know, recess appointments were something in the past were used for special circumstances where a post really needed to be filled under an emergency or something like that. no president has ever used the research recess appointment power to his cabinet. that is what trump is going to

do. that is a complete bypass of the senate's advice and consent responsibility. if senate republicans give him that responsibility, they are not just letting him fill in one post here and there in emergency, they are saying, we see our power, we see our constitutional responsibility of advise and consent to you, donald trump, our leader. that is a big test for them, certainly a big test for the new senate majority leader, john thune. >> you read anything into the fact that senate republicans elected john thune over trump's pick, rick scott, undoubtedly more meta, but do you think that both more for the constitution? >> you know, john thune is an interesting character in senate history because he won his seat in 2004 by knocking off the raining leader daschle, in what at the time was seen as a major victory for this new, contra confrontational style of politics. that it was 20 years ago. that style of politics has

obviously gotten much more confrontational since then. he is not necessarily some institutionalist, but he is more of an institutional list then rick scott, i think senate majority leader rick scott would have rolled over immediately to give trump any power he wants. thune, in theory, is supposed to be the leader who is more protective of senate republicans' prerogative as representatives, as senators entrusted with advising consent and responsibility. this is a test for him. if he just rolled over for trump, we might as well have elected rick scott. >> it is a test for them any test for our democracy. adam, thank you for joining me tonight, my i don't care if it takes every second of our time and every